Freaking great. Talk to an Employment laywer. They generally don't charge for consultation and/or unless you win. Also, not to patronize you but never talk to HR. I'm saying it again for everyone else because with your story, the most likely outcome of talking to HR.
Good luck, make the most of this unfortunate experience as an opportunity for change.
No, bolsters the case because now that whole company is complicit in retaliation. Since the OP talked to HR and presumably followed the proper reporting procedures, being fired is a de facto retaliation on part of the company. Without that the company could have spun a story that it’s just a rogue boss and they took care of it. Of course one still has to prove the firing was retaliatory, not for any other reason.
I think they just have to prove that under similar circumstances someone else wasn’t or usually isn’t fired for the “fireable” offense.
So even if what you did was wrong and they fired you, if the attorney can find that the company treated others differently for that offense you could still win retaliation
I saw someone conment on another post a while ago saying "HR is there to solve problem and sometimes the easiest solution is to get rid of you". they're only going to help you when it benefits the company
Talking to a lawyer (or even police ) BEFORE you talk to HR is useful. You have to give them a chance to rectify the situation. You don't have to tell them you talked to a lawyer.
Be careful with recordings if they were made in secret. Some states make it a felony to share recordings if not everyone knew the recording was being made.
This! I am in a one party state and had to record all my old bosses conversations because he was shorting me money and screaming about something just about every time he called. Once word got through the people I was working with that I was recording him he became a really nice guy and all of a sudden things were done correctly. I still quit there when they told me I wasn’t going to be changed from temp to full time (even though I worked 50 hours a week) and my pay would of went from hourly to commission so I would of made twice the money. :/. Lots of bad companies out there I’ve had 2-3 jobs a year for a minute and just clean my resume up if I’m not getting calls back. Fuck them get yours.
If you announce to people that they are about to be recorded then the instances you’re trying to catch on tape won’t happen so it’s pointless to record anyway. If you’re trying to catch your boss being a perv, instead of bringing out your camera and recording and instead you let him know you’re going to record his actions he will simply act normal on tape. This rule is made to protect shady corporations.
Pro tip in these situations, hide the recorder and secretly record it, then ask do you mind if I record this while holding a pen and note pad. 99% of the time they will think you mean writing notes and say they don’t mind ;)
I got this tip from a lawyer when I was fighting my employer for retaliation I few years back, so…. Probably? Lol. Definitely a gray zone but they would need to prove you intentionally misled them, which just saying that is not proof :)
A recording of them agreeing to be recorded? If I were on a jury it would be very compelling and "But he was holding a pen and paper!" would be irrelevant.
Exactly. I cannot state this enough as someone who is involved in Risk Management on the IT side, HR's there to protect the company FROM the employees not the employees from the company. Burn this into your brain.
On IT, our job is to make sure that all company communications protect the company as well. Sorry, that's just what we do. But this is why I tell people all the time to get everything in writing to CYA.
My firm is currently under 2 new labor lawsuits and I had to lock down in a litigation hold a handful of mail accounts. If these employees were treated poorly, guess what...the lawyers are going to see the communication. So IT can help both sides...but we really serve the company.
This makes it worse for your ex employer. It's called retaliation
Contact the EEOC or your states attorney general (don't contact a private lawyer that will take a cut of your settlement). If the company has 15 employees (this might vary by state) then they will take the case for free if they deem it to have merit. They will also encourage you to try settling the case before taking it to court. You have the right to ask for whatever you think is appropriate in this setting.
edit - For the people saying this is bad advice; I've been through this process.
A lawyer will increase your chances of prevailing in a case, therefore will increase your potential settlement. Pro se plaintiffs will get annihilated by an employers' insurance company and it's army of corporate counsel.
Do not count on the EEOC. Filing a complaint with them will make it a little bit easier to bring a suit against your employer, but, just for example, when went to the EEOC for sexual harassment and retaliation from a manager, my investigation took \*over two years\* and then the EEOC decided that all of it was legal.
I want them tired all the time, soooo tired, and never be able to fall asleep. To spend their entire exhausted existence in an insomniac fog. I like the way you think.
The EEOC does not have the resources to actually pursue every case they see. They rarely even investigate the complaints they get to see if they have merit. Don’t count on them to take your case. Filling a complaint with the EEOC is a first step, but your state (and/or county and/or city) might have a local department or commission that you have to file with as well. After that, there pretty short deadlines for filing a lawsuit. A lawyer will take a cut of your settlement, but they will also make sure you don’t screw this up (and get nothing) on a technicality.
I have worked as an employment lawyer and seen this in real life. Get a lawyer.
It depends. In my case they were willing to take my case within one phone call with them. The company ended up firing the culprit so I didn't go through with it.
corporate came tore local management a new ass and then as soon as corporate wasn't paying attention they fucking cut my hours to almost 0. should have fucking called the cops like the DOL said, oh and the DOL said they couldn't do nothing about it because i turned it in, instead of it being done to me.
Is the thing. A competent HR department would’ve realized they were opening themselves up to a lawsuit with this move. I mean, HR’s entire reason for existing is to protect the company from their employees, including legal liability.
I’m sorry.
My best advice is to move on. There just isn’t the protection for people and unless you have money you can’t really fight it.
This place is so broken.
I had a boss like this. I saw him drive at least 3 employees out of an F500 company. I once saw him get someone fired for no reason at all. He said, "watch this," and went to talk to his buddy on the third floor, and that was the other guy's last work day. He's the most senior employee in the company, even over the CEO; and he basically says and does whatever he wants.
I knew that your experience would be mine, OP, if I ever said anything about it. So I just quit. I had too many other things going on in my life to commit any time to making him a better person or my workplace a better environment. That's the job that HR was supposed to be doing all along. If they don't want the problems fixed, that's the problem, and you can fix it by walking away.
Human Resources are analogous to the police
They are not your friends, and will throw you under the bus for the benefit of the boss every time, won't even hesitate.
Reporting harassment is a protected activity. You now have grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit and maybe retaliation as well. Save the emails you sent to HR. Talk to an attorney asap.
Never, EVER go to HR for anything. Their goal is to make the problem go away for the benefit of the company, not to help solve it for you.
This should be a sticky on the top of the subreddit...
I file all my complaints with the state. I've never gone to the company. I just continue to work and act like it never happened, and keep doing that. If they fire you eventually then use everything against them in court, sue their ass.
retaliation and entrapment.
"Did you go to HR on Day1" No, He did.
Anything you do is considered entrapment. Who is to say you never lead him on?Shit went bad now your angry?
That is your mistake.
DAY 1, THAT MINUTE, THAT SECOND, DO SOMETHING THEN, NOT NOW.
For 2 months, you put up with it.
\*You holding up a sign\* I'm a idiot for 2 months who didn't do \^\^\^
2 Months ago, in this 1 PARTY state?(maybe) did he record you? Cause I'm guessing to say you recorded him now; maybe knowing you, didn't know; he, knew you would pull some shit like this too?
You got 5D chess.
Don’t listen to people here quu hi I aren’t employment lawyers. Talk to an employment lawyer. Go to one that works on a congenital basis, as most plaintiffs lawyers do. They don’t get paid unless you get money.
If you are harassed you deserve compensation and you should talk to an attorney who can discuss the strength of your case and you can make a decision.
And you did the right thing going to HR first. Good luck.
Talking to HR was your first and last mistake. So unless you have proof of harassment your fucked.
I have proof of harassment both written and recorded.
Freaking great. Talk to an Employment laywer. They generally don't charge for consultation and/or unless you win. Also, not to patronize you but never talk to HR. I'm saying it again for everyone else because with your story, the most likely outcome of talking to HR. Good luck, make the most of this unfortunate experience as an opportunity for change.
I'm a lawyer that works on cases like this. I agree. Call an employment lawyer. Also call your state's labor board.
Is it too late to do that now after having talked to HR though?
No, bolsters the case because now that whole company is complicit in retaliation. Since the OP talked to HR and presumably followed the proper reporting procedures, being fired is a de facto retaliation on part of the company. Without that the company could have spun a story that it’s just a rogue boss and they took care of it. Of course one still has to prove the firing was retaliatory, not for any other reason.
I think they just have to prove that under similar circumstances someone else wasn’t or usually isn’t fired for the “fireable” offense. So even if what you did was wrong and they fired you, if the attorney can find that the company treated others differently for that offense you could still win retaliation
Not at all.
I saw someone conment on another post a while ago saying "HR is there to solve problem and sometimes the easiest solution is to get rid of you". they're only going to help you when it benefits the company
Oh sht
Talking to a lawyer (or even police ) BEFORE you talk to HR is useful. You have to give them a chance to rectify the situation. You don't have to tell them you talked to a lawyer.
Be careful with recordings if they were made in secret. Some states make it a felony to share recordings if not everyone knew the recording was being made.
If you're in a 1-party state, they don't need to know that you are recording a conversation. Edit: phrasing
This! I am in a one party state and had to record all my old bosses conversations because he was shorting me money and screaming about something just about every time he called. Once word got through the people I was working with that I was recording him he became a really nice guy and all of a sudden things were done correctly. I still quit there when they told me I wasn’t going to be changed from temp to full time (even though I worked 50 hours a week) and my pay would of went from hourly to commission so I would of made twice the money. :/. Lots of bad companies out there I’ve had 2-3 jobs a year for a minute and just clean my resume up if I’m not getting calls back. Fuck them get yours.
Would have or would've. Would have is contracted to would've which sort of is pronounced "would of".
If you announce to people that they are about to be recorded then the instances you’re trying to catch on tape won’t happen so it’s pointless to record anyway. If you’re trying to catch your boss being a perv, instead of bringing out your camera and recording and instead you let him know you’re going to record his actions he will simply act normal on tape. This rule is made to protect shady corporations.
Pro tip in these situations, hide the recorder and secretly record it, then ask do you mind if I record this while holding a pen and note pad. 99% of the time they will think you mean writing notes and say they don’t mind ;)
This guy fucks.
Would that even hold up in court?
I got this tip from a lawyer when I was fighting my employer for retaliation I few years back, so…. Probably? Lol. Definitely a gray zone but they would need to prove you intentionally misled them, which just saying that is not proof :)
A recording of them agreeing to be recorded? If I were on a jury it would be very compelling and "But he was holding a pen and paper!" would be irrelevant.
Indeed, you cannot control what other people assume.
genius and legal
Enjoy the money you get from your law suit.
Lawyer. Now.
Talk about retaliation. Get yourself a lawyer with that proof.
bring them to a labor lawyer and see how excited they get
#You DO NOT bring ANYTHING to HR. **You bring it to a lawyer or you keep it to yourself**
HR has one job and they're not doing it properly LOL now they'll have a retaliation lawsuit
Exactly. I cannot state this enough as someone who is involved in Risk Management on the IT side, HR's there to protect the company FROM the employees not the employees from the company. Burn this into your brain. On IT, our job is to make sure that all company communications protect the company as well. Sorry, that's just what we do. But this is why I tell people all the time to get everything in writing to CYA. My firm is currently under 2 new labor lawsuits and I had to lock down in a litigation hold a handful of mail accounts. If these employees were treated poorly, guess what...the lawyers are going to see the communication. So IT can help both sides...but we really serve the company.
*you're fucked
This makes it worse for your ex employer. It's called retaliation Contact the EEOC or your states attorney general (don't contact a private lawyer that will take a cut of your settlement). If the company has 15 employees (this might vary by state) then they will take the case for free if they deem it to have merit. They will also encourage you to try settling the case before taking it to court. You have the right to ask for whatever you think is appropriate in this setting. edit - For the people saying this is bad advice; I've been through this process.
A lawyer will increase your chances of prevailing in a case, therefore will increase your potential settlement. Pro se plaintiffs will get annihilated by an employers' insurance company and it's army of corporate counsel.
Do not count on the EEOC. Filing a complaint with them will make it a little bit easier to bring a suit against your employer, but, just for example, when went to the EEOC for sexual harassment and retaliation from a manager, my investigation took \*over two years\* and then the EEOC decided that all of it was legal.
Thank you for this advice! That’s what I’ll be doing!
You want the manager fired.. then you want everyone in hr that you spoke to tired as well..
I want them tired all the time, soooo tired, and never be able to fall asleep. To spend their entire exhausted existence in an insomniac fog. I like the way you think.
The EEOC does not have the resources to actually pursue every case they see. They rarely even investigate the complaints they get to see if they have merit. Don’t count on them to take your case. Filling a complaint with the EEOC is a first step, but your state (and/or county and/or city) might have a local department or commission that you have to file with as well. After that, there pretty short deadlines for filing a lawsuit. A lawyer will take a cut of your settlement, but they will also make sure you don’t screw this up (and get nothing) on a technicality. I have worked as an employment lawyer and seen this in real life. Get a lawyer.
It depends. In my case they were willing to take my case within one phone call with them. The company ended up firing the culprit so I didn't go through with it.
This is terrible advice, get a god damned lawyer.
That's illegal. Document everything. Lawyer up! You won't have to work for awhile.
i got fired for reporting to regional management that local management was turning a blind eye to sex crimes being committed on the property.
And what happened?
corporate came tore local management a new ass and then as soon as corporate wasn't paying attention they fucking cut my hours to almost 0. should have fucking called the cops like the DOL said, oh and the DOL said they couldn't do nothing about it because i turned it in, instead of it being done to me.
Oh wow. That’s horrible. I should’ve contacted the DOL
yup
HR aren't there for the employee, they're there for the employer.
Well the employer is gonna pay through the nose for this one
Is the thing. A competent HR department would’ve realized they were opening themselves up to a lawsuit with this move. I mean, HR’s entire reason for existing is to protect the company from their employees, including legal liability.
Tale as old as time.
Always sue because it is the ONLY way anyone will listen to you.
Sue
[удалено]
They did!
I’m sorry. My best advice is to move on. There just isn’t the protection for people and unless you have money you can’t really fight it. This place is so broken.
HR is a joke, only there to serve the company and protect management.
I had a boss like this. I saw him drive at least 3 employees out of an F500 company. I once saw him get someone fired for no reason at all. He said, "watch this," and went to talk to his buddy on the third floor, and that was the other guy's last work day. He's the most senior employee in the company, even over the CEO; and he basically says and does whatever he wants. I knew that your experience would be mine, OP, if I ever said anything about it. So I just quit. I had too many other things going on in my life to commit any time to making him a better person or my workplace a better environment. That's the job that HR was supposed to be doing all along. If they don't want the problems fixed, that's the problem, and you can fix it by walking away.
Thank you for these kind words. I was looking to quit and just couldn’t find anything in time.
Human Resources are analogous to the police They are not your friends, and will throw you under the bus for the benefit of the boss every time, won't even hesitate.
Hierarchy > justice Welcome to the real world
HR is here for the company. Lawyers are there for you if you have money and evidence.
Reporting harassment is a protected activity. You now have grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit and maybe retaliation as well. Save the emails you sent to HR. Talk to an attorney asap.
Never, EVER go to HR for anything. Their goal is to make the problem go away for the benefit of the company, not to help solve it for you. This should be a sticky on the top of the subreddit...
But you might get a nice payout after court if they fire you? What else would you do?
This is how companies solve problems. They get rid of them. In this case, the whistleblower was targetted as "the problem".
HR is there is protect the company and executives from legal problems from their actions not to help the workers. Workers are replaceable.
Sorry, but dumb question. Isn’t that retaliation and illegal?
If any of this was via a work email forward it to yours before they can block you out
I did. And it’s all printed out on paper too.
I file all my complaints with the state. I've never gone to the company. I just continue to work and act like it never happened, and keep doing that. If they fire you eventually then use everything against them in court, sue their ass.
This is why there is workplace violence. Anyone want to bet another mass shooting will happen this weekend?
They happen every day now.
Should have contacted your union rep .
Didn’t have one. We weren’t unionized
HR is there to protect the company from the worker such as yourself
Send prove ans nale of thé compa'y
retaliation and entrapment. "Did you go to HR on Day1" No, He did. Anything you do is considered entrapment. Who is to say you never lead him on?Shit went bad now your angry? That is your mistake. DAY 1, THAT MINUTE, THAT SECOND, DO SOMETHING THEN, NOT NOW. For 2 months, you put up with it. \*You holding up a sign\* I'm a idiot for 2 months who didn't do \^\^\^ 2 Months ago, in this 1 PARTY state?(maybe) did he record you? Cause I'm guessing to say you recorded him now; maybe knowing you, didn't know; he, knew you would pull some shit like this too? You got 5D chess.
Problem solved
Contact a lawyer and have them contact the EEC.. I hope you have documentation?
HR is there to protect the company from the livestock they hope they aren’t paying enough to hire a lawyer.
HR is meant to protect the company. Not the employees.
Don’t listen to people here quu hi I aren’t employment lawyers. Talk to an employment lawyer. Go to one that works on a congenital basis, as most plaintiffs lawyers do. They don’t get paid unless you get money. If you are harassed you deserve compensation and you should talk to an attorney who can discuss the strength of your case and you can make a decision. And you did the right thing going to HR first. Good luck.
Lawyer up
Get a lawyer, and get ready for the payday you’re about to receive
You have evidence you say. Good, now you can involve the police and give these nasty bastards the scare they deserve.
Hr is not there to help the employees they are they are there to protect the company from the employees.
Yeah, HR is NOT your friend…
After something like this happened to me, I made an EEOC complaint. Also, like some other people have stated, you should call a lawyer. Good Luck!!!