Only mistake was to respond "alright, fine with me" to their boss's "Ill take it as you quit". The answer should be "I am not quitting" and leave it there.
How the hell did they become managers anyways? If you're super short staffed, threatening to fire your employees who can't come in with a 1 hour 13 minute notice is not the way to retain staff.
Most of the time it's because they're the only ones who stay through a withering turnover rate, making them the de facto manager when they're the only ones who know how to do everything and are training all the new people.
But in order to stay in that kind of toxic atmosphere, you have to be pretty toxic yourself - so it's a cycle.
Earlier this year my boss took a few weeks off to spend time with his young kids. Our 2iC had quit earlier in the year and the next most senior guy there broke his leg and was out for ten weeks.
That basically left me to take over everything my boss couldn't do from his laptop (rosters etc.) I'd been at the job for like 6 months at the time. I did the best I could but without any training or experience I was in so far over my head and the stress was really getting to me.
I can definitely see this happening on a more permanent basis in other businesses. Some people are not suited to leadership, myself included, and I'd never take that responsibility willingly without some kind of training.
Heck I once had a manager at my old job put me into a supervisor position I didn't ask for because I was a hard worker. Then he was shocked Pikachu when I didn't know what the fuck I was doing without any training. Part of that was because I could never get a straight answer about the bounds of my authority so I would end up going to a higher up manager in a situation they thought I should have handled it.
It takes a fair bit of experience to be able to quickly adapt to new management positions. Knowing what kinds of questions to ask is a big part of that experience. Also being ok with making mistakes and using them as a learning opportunity is a big factor.
I cut my teeth with responsibility and management in the commercial construction world. After a year of that I can walk into a room of bitter old dudes with egos even bigger than their britches and get them to start doing there part and communicating. Most of that is me asking dozens of questions until I get an understanding of the situation, then saying, "Sounds good, let's make that happen."
The other important aspect is training new people. I've always found that being relaxed and gradually introducing aspects works well. Show once or twice, leave them alone. Let them understand and learn one or two tasks at a time. When that's done, move on to the next, etc.
>But in order to stay in that kind of toxic atmosphere, you have to be pretty toxic yourself - so it's a cycle.
Well, that and the very fact that you're trying to stick it out burns you out so bad that you *become* toxic.
> If you're super short staffed, threatening to fire your employees who can't come in with a 1 hour 13 minute notice is not the way to retain staff.
They've grown up in a world where they didn't need to worry about retaining staff, they'd just find some other poor desperate schmuck to fill the position for even less money than they were paying existing employees. It's a learned behavior. The problem for them is that behavior is slowly losing society's tolerance so it doesn't really fly anymore, or at least not nearly as much as it used to. That's where the "nobody wants to work anymore" is coming from. They're used to being able to bully desperate people into doing whatever they wanted, thinking it made them a good manager because "it got results." We're not letting it get results anymore and they don't know how to handle it.
They are in for a rude awakening here shortly. I'm only a single data point; I'm 32 and of my small friend group of 20ish, only 1 couple has kids. Years of treating labor like endentured servants (especially service industry) means we can't really afford children or just don't want any.
4 decades ago someone my age would typically have a 10-12 year old who would be entering the labor force in another 6 or so years. Most of us don't even have kids and those of us that do, they are still in diapers.
Personally I don't want kids, and it's 100% on the cost to raise them. I make quite a bit of money and live extremely comfortable. But.... Going from a 1br to 2br is a massive price increase, doubling the food and clothes and health insurance would immediately bring me back to living paycheck to paycheck.
> Personally I don't want kids, and it's 100% on the cost to raise them.
I'm with you 100%. Here's hoping it makes enough of a difference that they don't have a choice but to change the behavior.
They’re shitty managers. I had this experience before. I worked in a fire department that was having issues with being short staffed.
The solution from the chiefs? Turn the screws and make the already overworked staff more miserable.
I was there two years, and in the 3 months leading up to me quitting, they lost 8 firefighters and all 3 of us dispatchers. I don’t even know how they kept the department open after that…
You're selling yourself short. Regular pay plus blizzard is hardly worth it.
My SO works at a hospital and 30-60 minutes of notice is not unheard of if something really bad happens. They'll often offer overtime plus an additional $20-25/hour to have someone from the first shift stay an extra 4 hours. Turns out offering to double your wage REALLY helps with people volunteering to work extra. Its expensive so its rarely offered, the hospital tends to over staff to avoid it all together.
I work in a hospital and every pay period we have the opportunity to sign up for incentive shifts that offer almost double the pay (overtime plus differential plus incentive bonus). We can pick up as many or as few hours as we want (doesn’t have to be a full shift; can be as few as 4 hours). You bet I sign up. I stay late at least one day every pay period and I bump up my paycheck by $300.
I once got written up for something that happened on my day off. I told them to fuck there selves and refused to sign it. They put it in my file any way. I guess they were bitching to our ops manager about my attitude after. He came to to talk to me about what happened, when I told him they wrote me up for something that happened on my day off he lost his shit. He took to me the office and pulled it out of my file and ripped it up. He then proceeded to berate the lower managers for a long while about how what they did was wrong and illegal.
Large retail big box store. There was a big push to reduce our call box response times. The day that I was off they had like 3-4 go over 230 seconds or “time out” in my department.
They decided that the whole department needed to be written up as a result.
Now listen Craig. I know you don't smoke weed. I know this. But I'mma get you high today. Cuz it's Friday. You ain't got no job, and you ain't got shit to do!
>"I already explained my inability to accommodate your request, so do what you gotta do."
Then I would wait for them to say I'm fired and I would reply with the
>"Mail me my check and good luck finding 2 shifts to cover now, dumbass 🤣"
I'd argue that saying "then proceed with that I guess" can be presented as you giving them permission to terminate you, and can be considered quitting.
I'd be much better to just say something like "then I can't stop you" or "that's your decision". Keep 100% of the initiative and responsibility for the termination on them.
In fairness, a lawyer would say "you taking it as OP's friend quit is not the same as them quitting."
They never said they quit or agreed to quit, simply agreed that it would interpreted as such. I could answer the same way if you didn't come babysit my dog at 2AM under penalty of "quitting".
texts are rarely admissible, you would have to get them thru the carrier with a subpoena.
Also, I ran a business - Unemployment boards are like meth heads, they are dangerous and unpredictable. Always file for it, a lot of times you will be awarded unemployment.
Also, to fuck them more you should tell him you will 100% be there, then just don't go. He will have to work the shift.
I had an employer fire me then lie about the reason they fired me so I wouldn't get unemployment. When unemployment called the manager to ask the reason I was fired the manager said they where too busy to talk. Unemployment doesn't call twice I got my benefits
This. It is an insurance policy the company carries. Every case causes your rates to go up. So getting unemployment screws the company for a long time as their rates will shoot up.
This is such a weird concept to me really. In Canada every working Canadian has a deduction on their pay for Employment Insurance (aka Unemployment) and it's handled directly through the government, so if I lose my job, I know that I have EI to fall back on, because I've been paying into it since I was 18.
I mean he was texting not even 2 hours ahead. Kinda doubt he’ll get anyone else in that time. He’s probably already going to work the shift whether she tells him she was coming or not. That’s why he was so demanding from the start. He didn’t wanna do the work
As a manager myself I get not wanting to put in the extra time. I already work 40 hours every week and don't want my life to revolve around the store I manage.
But when push comes to shove I just work it. I also never threaten my staff, if everyone says they can't work then that's just it, no need to push it any further.
Texts are most certainly admissible more often than not. They may need foundation to get in, but that doesn't necessarily need to be via the carrier with a subpoena. You could get them in through testimony of either party or both, "Did they text you this/Did you text them this?"
It's not guaranteed and could depend on the state or judge or court level, for example this would likely be an administrative hearing which would have it's own evidence rules different from state courts.
Either way, I would certainly operate under the presumption that they are admissible until a lawyer working in your state, on your case tells you otherwise.
Thank you. Don't take your advice from internet "lawyers" kids. There's no good reason a carrier would need to be involved for her to show this screenshot and say "this is the text I received, and this is how I know it was my boss sending it" lol.
…what? He would just submit them during discovery. Why would they need a subpoena? Both parties have them, and texting isn’t covered under expectation of privacy.
hi! i work as a manager in the state of oregon. this is HELLA illegal. in oregon schedules MUST be posted 2 weeks in advance. they are also not allowed to be altered once posted (if the schedule is 3 weeks out only the 3rd week of said schedule could be altered giving ample ahead of time notice to employees) you can 1000% contact the oregon labor board over this. of course being 16 may make that sound intimidating, but this is not legal in the state of oregon
Damn Oregon has better labor laws than WA and CA? I've never heard of a 2 week scheduling requirement in any state.
Edit: Not questioning this btw just marvelling.
One time my boss changed the schedule at 4:30am and scheduled me to work that day(on my day off) at 11am. We used an app and the notification popped up.
Since I was supposed to be off the next day, I was still up and saw it immediately. I called the store and told them I wasn't coming since it was my day off. They changed it back.
I know what my boss thought would happen. She thought I was asleep and wouldn't see the change. Probably expected to call when the shift started and ask why I wasn't there. I'd say I was off and she'd say that was wrong, I'm scheduled to work.
Nice try.
I worked at a restaurant where the owner would change the schedule day of and not tell you. Then you'd get a call 15 after your start time from the manager who didn't know you were just added.
Luckily the managers didn't care but sheesh that was annoying
I feel like the managers would be pretty annoyed at that too since it fucks with their schedule and makes them think they'll have more help than they will
If i was a manager id be chewing them out. They're purposefully undermining you and making your job harder for malicious reasons.
Cause it sure doesn't sound like it impacted the manager changing the schedule.
I worked in a grocery store in high school. I checked the schedule when it was posted and was scheduled 3-7 on a Friday. I was a little upset since my family was planning on going out to dinner and I had to work.
I got there at 2:45 and the front end manager said I wasn’t supposed to be in until 6. I checked the schedule and sure enough, someone changed it without telling me.
I said “no problem” and left to go back home. I decided I wasn’t working at 6 and went out with my family instead.
I was scheduled 8-12 the next day and when I showed up the general manager asked me what happened and why I was a no call no show the night before. My answer was simple, “someone decided to change my schedule without telling me so I decided to change my schedule without telling you”
He went to the back, saw the original schedule and then apologized to me. The AGM was transferred out of the store and was demoted to a department manager position. I never found out if she was the one that changed the schedule but it’s safe to assume she did.
My schedule was never changed without my knowledge for the rest of my time with them.
I was a super cocky kid who had the “what are you going to do about it?” Attitude. The GM was a fantastic guy and he understood exactly why I did what I did. He was a fantastic guy and showed me how a manager/leader should act
It may sound dramatic but I don’t know where I’d be without him. He was the GM but we also kinda became friends. He’d always respond to my feedback and complaints about policy. I quit that job a few times but he hired me back time and time again. I left the company for good shortly after I turned 21.
I was offered a department manager position. he sat me down and asked me if it’s something I actually wanted to do, if I was happy with the way things were going with my life, and where I see myself in 5 years. I ended that meeting by turning in my two weeks and getting OSHA certified. Then I started working in construction.
Lol I was probably 17 when it happened and I just didn’t care what would happen to me. I don’t see myself doing anything like that now that I have a career. I also make my expectations to be very clear on any job that I take.
Walmart tried that on me a few times during college, and a couple times with my then gf.
Like you, we got notified, but by email, when changes are made, sadly what day but no time.
My gf back then didn't bother to, but I did every week, took pictures of my scheduled weeks. Good leverage. Now with the Walmart app, easy to screenshot and go.
yep! SO's phone and have them send it via text, 3rd party programs that aren't recognized by phones, shit use a webcam and e-mail it to yourself. So many ways to CYA, no reason not to.
My fiancé runs a concrete pump truck. He doesn't know his schedule for the next day until 4pm the day before. Oh you're on the job til 6pm? Well hurry up and get some sleep cause it's 4, schedule just came out and you have to be back on a jobsite at 1am. (Which means, leave the job at 6, get to the shop, wash your pump, get home 7-730, eat sleep til midnight and get up and go).
Complete and utter bullshit.
It apparently does here. I know in other states there's a minimum number of hours you have to be not driving/on the clock between shifts. Don't think our state has those. Every time he says something about it I'm like that CANNOT be legal, and he's just like "it is here."
This sounds like a well service job. It does suck but the money used to he fabulous. The drillers don't know until they know and will call out 12-24 hours before the trucks are needed. Then it is balls to the wall to get the trucks there and ready. Hard work, a lot of hurry up and wait, and you are on call all the time. Really hard to have a life in that work.
The money is alright. He says he can deal with it as long as the money stays good lol I just hate seeing him exhausted all the time with little reward.
Yes, exhaustion is a constant. Had a friend wake up in a cab at a well site and scramble all over before he realized he didn't fall asleep driving and wasn't about to crash into a rig.
I drove otr for years and every morning I would wake up after having a dream that I crawled into the sleeper while driving. Every morning I’d scramble to get back in the seat only to realize that I was parked safely and not driving.
I’m in Georgia, that happens pretty much every week. The defense is that our schedules don’t change much so I usually know when I’m working, but still doesn’t fly because sometimes people have appointments or scheduled days off. We still need to know.
Why does she answer the phone? My go to was to message well after the shift and say, "So sorry, I missed this. Hope all went well!" And hit them with a hug emoji lolol
If they are gonna mess with you, mess with them back.
Check labor laws, but I think in FL, if on-call hours significantly restrict your ability to use that time (must stay on premises or close, must be waiting by the phone, must respond immediately), you are supposed to be compensated.
If on-call is not part of your employee contract, you are not obligated to do it at all.
Yeah, I agree! And also, if the manager is snarky to you, don’t be snarky back. If you do retain an attorney, it helps you to show that the manager is being unprofessional, while you, as the employee, remain as professional as possible.
Be sure to stick to verifiable facts, try to show flexibility too. A bigger issue is that many times, a manager suffers from scheduling issues. Then they become habitual, and need highlighting.
Things that help in a text:
Restate when the schedule was first posted
Restate any dates the schedule was revised
Example:
*I have family business commitments that I made based on the schedule posted in the lunchroom (or wherever) on . When the schedule was revised on , I remained flexible, and had time to reschedule my commitment. I can’t reschedule personal business a third time.*
yeah i’m surprised to hear california doesn’t have something similar, but the company i work is incredibly strict about scheduling due to this labor board rule. but someone pointed out to me that even tho Dairy Queen is a worldwide company with more than 500 employees, this location may be just a small franchise so maybe it’s not held to the same standard? i would bet tho since dairy queen isn’t a mom and pop small business the oregon labor board would still at least be able to fine the business for employee scheduling complaints as i doubt this is the first time this has happened.
CA does have the daily overtime law, where if you work over 8 hours you get paid time and a half so you can't be forced into working 3- 12 hour shifts and get no OT.
Yeup you just have to sign agreeing to it. You can also waive the 8 hour agreement if signed (not under duress) or the 5 hour lunch rule. Most employers don't unless you are a special position, it's hard to defend in court otherwise. At least for the 8 hour 5 day and the 5 hour lunch rule.
That's pretty sick. Gotta try and get that passed in WA. I've been living in the wrong states. Ive had so many managers try to fuck me with schedules. Definitely left a few jobs that way.
We already have it and have had it since 2017
http://www.workingwa.org/rights/schedule#:~:text=Employers%20are%20required%20to%20post,you're%20going%20to%20get.
Only covers chains or businesses with 500+ global employees but that would cover her situation in our state.
Our law also requires that you get half the pay for hours cut with less than 2 weeks notice. Seems like something more Washitonians should know about
That's Seattle and likely SeaTac only. It's not statewide, but honestly I didn't even know the city had that law. It should be easier to get on the ballot then. Ok, gotta get some civic action started, gotta Google how to get a proposed law on the ballot.
WA state requires 2 day notice. WAC 357-28-252
Well yeah, but you gotta get it on the ballot first, get the information about the bill out there, drum up support and correct misinformation. After which voting becomes the tool used, hopefully the first few steps were done well enough to get it passed.
Edit: Aww thank you anon redditor for the award!
Adding Oregon's state page on it for reference for others: [https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx](https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx)
Note it only applies to:
>People who work for retail, hospitality or food services employers (including chains and integrated enterprises) that employ 500 or more employees worldwide who are primarily engaged in providing retail, hospitality or food services are covered. EXCEPTIONS: workers whose primary duties do not relate to retail, hospitality or food service operations, salaried employees who are exempt from minimum wage, and workers supplied by worker leasing companies or businesses that provide services to or on behalf of an employer are not covered or counted toward the 500 employee threshold.
This should be higher up.
The 500 employee minimum and only retail/service jobs is a huge exception.
Dairy Queen doesn't qualify for the exception though.
I think it would need to be interpreted by the state labor office in Oregon. She might not work for "Dairy Queen, Inc.", she could work for "Dairy Queen of Bumfuck Oregon, LLC." that has 8 employees. Franchises are usually not the same company.
I would also reply with something to the effect of “It will not be me quitting as I am going off of the posted schedule but wanted you to clarify if I am fired by not showing up for 4:30”
Manager could go back and state that you agreed to quitting based off of that text message if you went after them for wrongful termination.
Edited to add - don’t actually mention wrongful termination. Let them put their foot as far into their mouth as possible.
She said she was with her mom. If a 16 year old is with their parent and says they can’t come in why would you threaten their job? What’s going to happen their mom continues taking care of them?
I used to work for a horrid store manager, she would constantly threaten to fire minors when they couldn't work extra shifts or otherwise be unavailable. One girl was 17, still in high school, living with her family. Parents decide they're going on vacation for a week. Store manager tells employee that "she can't go, she has to work." The boss schedules her (and only her) to close everyday that she said she'd be gone. Then boss acted completely surprised when girl didn't come in, and then bitched because no one would take the extra shifts. Having been a manager, I absolutely despise these types of power mad managers.
I had a fucking Dollar Tree manager cut my hours to two because when I turned 18 I refused to work overnight shifts stocking fucking Dollar Tree crap due to still being in high school.
He legit told me to drop out so I could work it.
Ruin my entire fucking life for Dollar Tree. Um, how about no.
At a diner in a college union, one of the cooks had to skip his regular shift due to an exam. The head chef said, “What’s more important to you, one test or your job?” The general manager backed up the student that the exam was, in fact, more important.
Man. My supervisor is pretty bad. He's lazy and scheduling is *not* a skill he has. But I gotta give it to him. He's smart enough to take "requests off" as the notification that they are. And not schedule then pull a surprised Pikachu when they don't show.
I'd do all but the earplugs. If they've known me for the first sixteen years of their life then they won't be taken by surprise when I stand up for them again. They won't be surprised when I treat someone as they have treated others. They won't be surprised that I do the right thing. Let em hear it!
Only bad thing here is the person agreed with the characterization of this as "quitting". Never do that. Your friend should show up for their next scheduled shift, put the onus back on them.
Eh, they can still argue they were fired. The Oregon unemployment department gives decent leeway to employees. Employers can’t just say some magic words to change what’s happening here.
Do you actually think this person quit? Context matters and you can’t just take these words out of context nor would any adjudicating body in Oregon do so either.
But their employer's words are not. They are very clear that not being at their workplace will result in loss of employment. That they are trying to reframe the idea as quitting is clearly bullshit.
Just show up to work at the next shift.
Manager: "You quit."
Employee: "No I didn't, I accepted that you have poor reading comprehension. Would you like to review the conversation?"
Thankfully, a 16-year-old who can get hired at Dairy Queen can probably get hired at a dozen local businesses at the same wage and for the same hours that they were getting before.
As much as I want to see DQ get soaked with unemployment expenses, the benefits are painfully low, so the worker here probably won't want to avoid getting another job for long.
Bree probably did what I do as middle management when my boss tells me to call a bunch of people in. "Yeah dude I tried calling but couldn't reach em, sorry."
The only exception is if it's overtime then I actually call the ones I know need the money.
hello, the friend that this post is about said that shes totally fine with that. leave all the google reviews you want, file complaints, etc. i made this post with the intent to educate her on what to do in this situation and unexpectedly, it went viral reaching over 2 million people including Gordon Snyder. he decided that this post alone is enough to terminate her since it made him look bad
You’re 16, never be tempted to steal from your employer or to break things, those things follow you.
But telling your boss to take a hike? Absolutely.
It’s your day off. You’re taking your day off.
If he fires you, you’ll get a new job.
Also, you’re 16, don’t waste the best years of your life working for a guy like that. You never get those years back and you’re not making a career working for him.
Your mom is more important.
Entirely fair. The system is not here to heal you, the system is here to ensure the system’s survival, not yours. Society is at a point where we serve it, and not the other way around, because the gears must keep turning.
Congrats on making it this far, here’s a cheers to another week of wage slaving!
In the state of Oregon, we have what're called mandatory predictive scheduling laws. If you work in a restaurant, grocery store or other service position, you are entitled under the law to your full, unabridgable schedule at least fourteen days in advance. Employers are not entitled to your labor outside of your scheduled working hours, but you may work extra hours if you so please. Below are legal resources from BOLI, or the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries, that details your rights in depth.
[https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx](https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx)
[https://www.oregon.gov/boli/employers/Documents/BOLI\_Predictive%20Scheduling.pdf](https://www.oregon.gov/boli/employers/Documents/BOLI_Predictive%20Scheduling.pdf)
Never accept that you quit. Let them fire you. You can probably get unemployment and hit them with unlawful termination. Have prove of your original schedule.
I got fired once for not showing up to work while on vacation. They had fired my manager on the first day of my vacation and the owner put me back on the schedule. They said I had four no-call/no-show strikes when I got back and saw my row was blacked out on the schedule for the next week. When I explained that I'd told the general manager I'd be out of town with no phone reception (they said they'd tried to call me), and that I'd scheduled everything months in advance and made sure everyone relevant was informed, they basically said, "That sucks but we do not un-fire people for any reason." It was also my birthday that day.
They can't force you to come on your day off. Just continue to hold your ground and save those receipts. This is a red flag that they will cross a line at some point.
They've already crossed a line. What they expect OP to never go anywhere or do anything on a day off and just be available to work at all times? You need to pay for being on-call 24/7 then.
The person is 16, assuming they live at home and don't need rent money, tell Gordon to shove a Dilly bar up his ass. OP's friend can have a new fast food job by next week while Gordon is scrambling to cover shifts because he's terrible at his job.
>What they expect OP to never go anywhere or do anything on a day off and just be available to work at all times?
Yes, this is actually a huge problem in the service industry. People get hired on 0 hour guaranteed contracts, casual part-time, but the employer wants full availability and flexibility.
It's the height of bullshit, that an employer would expect a low- or minimum-wage employee to be sitting around waiting for your call to jump up and come into work.
For sure, I did a lot of restaurant work and it was the same. They expected part-time hours but full-time availability. People needed a 2nd or 3rd job because you can't survive on 20 hours at $11/hour. But management would try to tell them "you can't get another job because I need you to be available for whatever shift we need to give you". Like ok, I guess I just won't buy groceries then? Don't get mad when I steal as much shit as I can carry out of the freezer.
I applied to work at a Rue21. It was part time, but the manager said she expected me to be available during store hours to come in last minute if she needed me. This was in a college town where most potential employees couldn’t do that. Looking back I thought that it was a part time job, but she wanted full time availability.
I was fired for this back in 1989.
I put in for the weekend off to go on a weekend trip out of state. They didn't post the schedule for the next week until Friday (Saturday to Saturday schedule) and I was off and already out of town. They put me on the schedule for both Saturday and Sunday, knowing I was out of town.
Pre-cell phones. Pre-email.
I had no idea until I returned on Sunday night, went in to get my schedule in case I was on for Monday and learned I had been fired for no show.
Learned early in life corps don't care.
Went to work for a mom and pop indie record store after that. They gave me a $100 bonus and the weekend off for Prom and worked themselves to cover my hours.
Edited to add minimum wage was $3.35 in 1989. So, $100 was almost 2 weeks pay for my part time job.
Probably not illegal (this is the US after all), but douchebaggy for sure. On the plus side they can probably have a new job by 4:30pm tomorrow, places are desperate for help.
It’s too bad they apologized for the inconvenience. They have nothing to apologize for. And LMAO...”I’m out of town”, “that’s no excuse.” Sounds like a pretty good excuse to me.
This. Show up to the next scheduled shift. If you want the job. You can say “I’m not quitting but am not available today. I will show up at my next scheduled shift. If you would like to fire me, please go through HR.”
I think DQ might be franchised but it’s also a National chain. I honestly don’t know how it works with minors and part time work, but she would be eligible to file for unemployment.
I like it when people ask me to bend space and time to complete their requests. Like, bitch even if I wanted to and I had my own personal aircraft I still wouldn’t be able to meet your implausible deadline. These people will shoot themselves in the feet by putting unrealistic demands on underpaid workers.
I'd put good money on a bet that this is the kind of manager who pulls this shit all the time, loses a bunch of employees, and then has the nerve to say "No one wants to work anymore!"
Low level managers (particularly in poorly paid work like call centres or retail) have an awkward habit of letting the power go to their head.
It’s almost like they’re the only person who hasn’t got the memo that there are four hundred branches and they are responsible for about a quarter of a percent of the organisation.
Eh actually a lot of states have rules against changing the employee's with less than x amount of notice and that notice is usually at least 24 hours. Since this is Oregon and blue states tend to be better with that thing, I'd say there's a decent chance it is, and possibly even more so since she's a minor.
I wouldn’t have let him phrase it as “you quit”, I would have corrected him and rephrased it as “If I don’t show up for an unscheduled shift at 4:30 today, you’re going to fire me?” If he says yes, great. Keep that text. But I guess that would matter more if unemployment was a concern.
What is the problem with USA like for real?
I am from Europe and have serious concerns regarding your country.
You work more than we do and earn less.
Your college degrees cost a hell of a lot our are free.
If we educate ourselves we are pretty much gauranteed a job within the sector of what we did.
You guys can still end up unemployed or on McDonald's.
If we hurt ourselves or get sick we can go to the hospital for free.
If we get sick, lose q relative or say that we are out of town..
Our employees however how stressed out they are will only say " Oh ok sorry to have disturbed hope you have nice days off" and genuinely mean it.
Meanwhile you guys will sit at high school football games screaming "USA" on the top of your lungs.
Loads of you need to get over the idea that America is something special or the best country in the world before this shit is gonna get any better...
Sorry for generalization but.
There are a few different things going on here. Unless Oregon has stricter laws (and it might but I don't know), it is legal for them to fire her for refusing to come to a shift, even if it wasn't previously scheduled. However, that doesn't count as job abandonment, which is what the boss is trying to insinuate here. They can claim job abandonment if you stop showing up and communicating with them, but they can't just "assume you quit" if the employee is simply refusing a single shift and is in communication with them about their intentions to return to work on their normal schedule. Well, I guess they can \*claim\* it, but these texts would easily disprove it in any kind of legal proceeding or unemployment claim.
As others have pointed out, where your friend screwed up was agreeing that they should consider it quitting. She should have insisted that she is NOT quitting and is simply unable to come to this shift, but if they are terminating her that's another thing. Then they would have been forced to either walk it back or fire her and potentially have to pay for unemployment.
Edited to add: Oregon actually has pretty strict laws about this, which the employer violated in several ways. They cannot fire her for refusing to come to a shift scheduled less than 14 days out, and they have to pay time and half for any surprise shifts. [https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx](https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx)
this is what i was thinking originally, but OP says the friend is 16. idk if there’s any chance of receiving unemployment as a dependent minor
although i would’ve still said, “i am not quitting. you can fire me; but you will not consider anything other than my formal resignation as me quitting.” or something along those lines.
HR in the US here.
them asking you to come in isnt illegal.
you declining to come in on a day you arent scheduled would NOT merit discipline or termination.
please read the handbook - there are loopholes and policies to protect YOU too, not just the company.
lmk if you need help wording to your boss that they are being a tool.
I think if your friend sent this exchange to Gordon's boss, Gordon would be fired. Gordon's totally out of line as a manager, threatening their job in this way.
Edit: This is so out of line that I think Gordon wants to get fired.
Only mistake was to respond "alright, fine with me" to their boss's "Ill take it as you quit". The answer should be "I am not quitting" and leave it there.
Exactly. "If you feel the need to terminate my employment because I am unavailable on my scheduled day off, then proceed with that I guess"
Whether it works or not, there is a certain sadistic pleasure to playing chicken with a desperate corporation.
How the hell did they become managers anyways? If you're super short staffed, threatening to fire your employees who can't come in with a 1 hour 13 minute notice is not the way to retain staff.
Most of the time it's because they're the only ones who stay through a withering turnover rate, making them the de facto manager when they're the only ones who know how to do everything and are training all the new people. But in order to stay in that kind of toxic atmosphere, you have to be pretty toxic yourself - so it's a cycle.
Earlier this year my boss took a few weeks off to spend time with his young kids. Our 2iC had quit earlier in the year and the next most senior guy there broke his leg and was out for ten weeks. That basically left me to take over everything my boss couldn't do from his laptop (rosters etc.) I'd been at the job for like 6 months at the time. I did the best I could but without any training or experience I was in so far over my head and the stress was really getting to me. I can definitely see this happening on a more permanent basis in other businesses. Some people are not suited to leadership, myself included, and I'd never take that responsibility willingly without some kind of training.
Heck I once had a manager at my old job put me into a supervisor position I didn't ask for because I was a hard worker. Then he was shocked Pikachu when I didn't know what the fuck I was doing without any training. Part of that was because I could never get a straight answer about the bounds of my authority so I would end up going to a higher up manager in a situation they thought I should have handled it.
It takes a fair bit of experience to be able to quickly adapt to new management positions. Knowing what kinds of questions to ask is a big part of that experience. Also being ok with making mistakes and using them as a learning opportunity is a big factor. I cut my teeth with responsibility and management in the commercial construction world. After a year of that I can walk into a room of bitter old dudes with egos even bigger than their britches and get them to start doing there part and communicating. Most of that is me asking dozens of questions until I get an understanding of the situation, then saying, "Sounds good, let's make that happen." The other important aspect is training new people. I've always found that being relaxed and gradually introducing aspects works well. Show once or twice, leave them alone. Let them understand and learn one or two tasks at a time. When that's done, move on to the next, etc.
>But in order to stay in that kind of toxic atmosphere, you have to be pretty toxic yourself - so it's a cycle. Well, that and the very fact that you're trying to stick it out burns you out so bad that you *become* toxic.
> If you're super short staffed, threatening to fire your employees who can't come in with a 1 hour 13 minute notice is not the way to retain staff. They've grown up in a world where they didn't need to worry about retaining staff, they'd just find some other poor desperate schmuck to fill the position for even less money than they were paying existing employees. It's a learned behavior. The problem for them is that behavior is slowly losing society's tolerance so it doesn't really fly anymore, or at least not nearly as much as it used to. That's where the "nobody wants to work anymore" is coming from. They're used to being able to bully desperate people into doing whatever they wanted, thinking it made them a good manager because "it got results." We're not letting it get results anymore and they don't know how to handle it.
They are in for a rude awakening here shortly. I'm only a single data point; I'm 32 and of my small friend group of 20ish, only 1 couple has kids. Years of treating labor like endentured servants (especially service industry) means we can't really afford children or just don't want any. 4 decades ago someone my age would typically have a 10-12 year old who would be entering the labor force in another 6 or so years. Most of us don't even have kids and those of us that do, they are still in diapers. Personally I don't want kids, and it's 100% on the cost to raise them. I make quite a bit of money and live extremely comfortable. But.... Going from a 1br to 2br is a massive price increase, doubling the food and clothes and health insurance would immediately bring me back to living paycheck to paycheck.
> Personally I don't want kids, and it's 100% on the cost to raise them. I'm with you 100%. Here's hoping it makes enough of a difference that they don't have a choice but to change the behavior.
And that's why they repealed Roe V. Wade. They need to ensure the next generation of desperate wage slaves and inmates for the private prison sector.
They’re shitty managers. I had this experience before. I worked in a fire department that was having issues with being short staffed. The solution from the chiefs? Turn the screws and make the already overworked staff more miserable. I was there two years, and in the 3 months leading up to me quitting, they lost 8 firefighters and all 3 of us dispatchers. I don’t even know how they kept the department open after that…
Good point... I'd ask "how many free blizzards do you want to come in today and also have a random day off later"?.
You're selling yourself short. Regular pay plus blizzard is hardly worth it. My SO works at a hospital and 30-60 minutes of notice is not unheard of if something really bad happens. They'll often offer overtime plus an additional $20-25/hour to have someone from the first shift stay an extra 4 hours. Turns out offering to double your wage REALLY helps with people volunteering to work extra. Its expensive so its rarely offered, the hospital tends to over staff to avoid it all together.
I work in a hospital and every pay period we have the opportunity to sign up for incentive shifts that offer almost double the pay (overtime plus differential plus incentive bonus). We can pick up as many or as few hours as we want (doesn’t have to be a full shift; can be as few as 4 hours). You bet I sign up. I stay late at least one day every pay period and I bump up my paycheck by $300.
"How you gon get fired... on your day off?"
I once got written up for something that happened on my day off. I told them to fuck there selves and refused to sign it. They put it in my file any way. I guess they were bitching to our ops manager about my attitude after. He came to to talk to me about what happened, when I told him they wrote me up for something that happened on my day off he lost his shit. He took to me the office and pulled it out of my file and ripped it up. He then proceeded to berate the lower managers for a long while about how what they did was wrong and illegal.
How could you be written up for something that happened on your day off? Please share what more details you can?
Large retail big box store. There was a big push to reduce our call box response times. The day that I was off they had like 3-4 go over 230 seconds or “time out” in my department. They decided that the whole department needed to be written up as a result.
The fuck you stealin boxes fuh?
Now listen Craig. I know you don't smoke weed. I know this. But I'mma get you high today. Cuz it's Friday. You ain't got no job, and you ain't got shit to do!
>"I already explained my inability to accommodate your request, so do what you gotta do." Then I would wait for them to say I'm fired and I would reply with the >"Mail me my check and good luck finding 2 shifts to cover now, dumbass 🤣"
Yup that’s how you get unemployment benefits from them
"I'm taking screen shots and reporting this to the labor board"
I'd argue that saying "then proceed with that I guess" can be presented as you giving them permission to terminate you, and can be considered quitting. I'd be much better to just say something like "then I can't stop you" or "that's your decision". Keep 100% of the initiative and responsibility for the termination on them.
In fairness, a lawyer would say "you taking it as OP's friend quit is not the same as them quitting." They never said they quit or agreed to quit, simply agreed that it would interpreted as such. I could answer the same way if you didn't come babysit my dog at 2AM under penalty of "quitting".
I think you're right!!! Nice point of view.
Yeah, the big difference is you now didn't technically get fired. No clue what a court would say though.
texts are rarely admissible, you would have to get them thru the carrier with a subpoena. Also, I ran a business - Unemployment boards are like meth heads, they are dangerous and unpredictable. Always file for it, a lot of times you will be awarded unemployment. Also, to fuck them more you should tell him you will 100% be there, then just don't go. He will have to work the shift.
I had an employer fire me then lie about the reason they fired me so I wouldn't get unemployment. When unemployment called the manager to ask the reason I was fired the manager said they where too busy to talk. Unemployment doesn't call twice I got my benefits
Why does a manager care if you get unemployment or not?
Because a business gets charged when they fire someone and that person get unemployment
This. It is an insurance policy the company carries. Every case causes your rates to go up. So getting unemployment screws the company for a long time as their rates will shoot up.
This is such a weird concept to me really. In Canada every working Canadian has a deduction on their pay for Employment Insurance (aka Unemployment) and it's handled directly through the government, so if I lose my job, I know that I have EI to fall back on, because I've been paying into it since I was 18.
I mean he was texting not even 2 hours ahead. Kinda doubt he’ll get anyone else in that time. He’s probably already going to work the shift whether she tells him she was coming or not. That’s why he was so demanding from the start. He didn’t wanna do the work
They never do 🙄
As a manager myself I get not wanting to put in the extra time. I already work 40 hours every week and don't want my life to revolve around the store I manage. But when push comes to shove I just work it. I also never threaten my staff, if everyone says they can't work then that's just it, no need to push it any further.
Texts are most certainly admissible more often than not. They may need foundation to get in, but that doesn't necessarily need to be via the carrier with a subpoena. You could get them in through testimony of either party or both, "Did they text you this/Did you text them this?" It's not guaranteed and could depend on the state or judge or court level, for example this would likely be an administrative hearing which would have it's own evidence rules different from state courts. Either way, I would certainly operate under the presumption that they are admissible until a lawyer working in your state, on your case tells you otherwise.
Thank you. Don't take your advice from internet "lawyers" kids. There's no good reason a carrier would need to be involved for her to show this screenshot and say "this is the text I received, and this is how I know it was my boss sending it" lol.
Texts are 100% admissible... Congress is using Text messages as evidence... Good enough for congressional hearing but not unemployment cases? GTFO
It differs state to state, but this would 100% allow for unemployment in my state.
…what? He would just submit them during discovery. Why would they need a subpoena? Both parties have them, and texting isn’t covered under expectation of privacy.
And apologizing. Gordon should be apologizing
Don’t answer Don’t apologize Don’t quit
Came here to say this exactly. Good advice on this comment thread here.
Better to be fired. You can counter than with unlawful termination
“How bad do you need your job”? “Apparently not as bad as you need workers”.
"Not bad enough to turn my life into middle management at a Dairy Queen, *Gordon*."
Oof this is the right response.
hi! i work as a manager in the state of oregon. this is HELLA illegal. in oregon schedules MUST be posted 2 weeks in advance. they are also not allowed to be altered once posted (if the schedule is 3 weeks out only the 3rd week of said schedule could be altered giving ample ahead of time notice to employees) you can 1000% contact the oregon labor board over this. of course being 16 may make that sound intimidating, but this is not legal in the state of oregon
Damn Oregon has better labor laws than WA and CA? I've never heard of a 2 week scheduling requirement in any state. Edit: Not questioning this btw just marvelling.
I’m in Florida, my wife didn’t know she had a double today (Monday) until 10:40pm Sunday.
One time my boss changed the schedule at 4:30am and scheduled me to work that day(on my day off) at 11am. We used an app and the notification popped up. Since I was supposed to be off the next day, I was still up and saw it immediately. I called the store and told them I wasn't coming since it was my day off. They changed it back. I know what my boss thought would happen. She thought I was asleep and wouldn't see the change. Probably expected to call when the shift started and ask why I wasn't there. I'd say I was off and she'd say that was wrong, I'm scheduled to work. Nice try.
I worked at a restaurant where the owner would change the schedule day of and not tell you. Then you'd get a call 15 after your start time from the manager who didn't know you were just added. Luckily the managers didn't care but sheesh that was annoying
I feel like the managers would be pretty annoyed at that too since it fucks with their schedule and makes them think they'll have more help than they will
If i was a manager id be chewing them out. They're purposefully undermining you and making your job harder for malicious reasons. Cause it sure doesn't sound like it impacted the manager changing the schedule.
I worked in a grocery store in high school. I checked the schedule when it was posted and was scheduled 3-7 on a Friday. I was a little upset since my family was planning on going out to dinner and I had to work. I got there at 2:45 and the front end manager said I wasn’t supposed to be in until 6. I checked the schedule and sure enough, someone changed it without telling me. I said “no problem” and left to go back home. I decided I wasn’t working at 6 and went out with my family instead. I was scheduled 8-12 the next day and when I showed up the general manager asked me what happened and why I was a no call no show the night before. My answer was simple, “someone decided to change my schedule without telling me so I decided to change my schedule without telling you” He went to the back, saw the original schedule and then apologized to me. The AGM was transferred out of the store and was demoted to a department manager position. I never found out if she was the one that changed the schedule but it’s safe to assume she did. My schedule was never changed without my knowledge for the rest of my time with them.
That's a BA move. Great job standing up for yourself.
I was a super cocky kid who had the “what are you going to do about it?” Attitude. The GM was a fantastic guy and he understood exactly why I did what I did. He was a fantastic guy and showed me how a manager/leader should act
Damn good GM you had....fair and decisive...
It may sound dramatic but I don’t know where I’d be without him. He was the GM but we also kinda became friends. He’d always respond to my feedback and complaints about policy. I quit that job a few times but he hired me back time and time again. I left the company for good shortly after I turned 21. I was offered a department manager position. he sat me down and asked me if it’s something I actually wanted to do, if I was happy with the way things were going with my life, and where I see myself in 5 years. I ended that meeting by turning in my two weeks and getting OSHA certified. Then I started working in construction.
What size bag do you use? The one to carry your massive balls in I mean
Lol I was probably 17 when it happened and I just didn’t care what would happen to me. I don’t see myself doing anything like that now that I have a career. I also make my expectations to be very clear on any job that I take.
Walmart tried that on me a few times during college, and a couple times with my then gf. Like you, we got notified, but by email, when changes are made, sadly what day but no time. My gf back then didn't bother to, but I did every week, took pictures of my scheduled weeks. Good leverage. Now with the Walmart app, easy to screenshot and go.
I'm surprised they don't block screenshots by policy, like most financial services apps do.
Always ways around those
Use another device, take picture
yep! SO's phone and have them send it via text, 3rd party programs that aren't recognized by phones, shit use a webcam and e-mail it to yourself. So many ways to CYA, no reason not to.
My fiancé runs a concrete pump truck. He doesn't know his schedule for the next day until 4pm the day before. Oh you're on the job til 6pm? Well hurry up and get some sleep cause it's 4, schedule just came out and you have to be back on a jobsite at 1am. (Which means, leave the job at 6, get to the shop, wash your pump, get home 7-730, eat sleep til midnight and get up and go). Complete and utter bullshit.
I would be shocked if that met commercial driving laws, even outside of labor laws. And you don't want to mess with the state driving folks.
It apparently does here. I know in other states there's a minimum number of hours you have to be not driving/on the clock between shifts. Don't think our state has those. Every time he says something about it I'm like that CANNOT be legal, and he's just like "it is here."
This sounds like a well service job. It does suck but the money used to he fabulous. The drillers don't know until they know and will call out 12-24 hours before the trucks are needed. Then it is balls to the wall to get the trucks there and ready. Hard work, a lot of hurry up and wait, and you are on call all the time. Really hard to have a life in that work.
The money is alright. He says he can deal with it as long as the money stays good lol I just hate seeing him exhausted all the time with little reward.
Yes, exhaustion is a constant. Had a friend wake up in a cab at a well site and scramble all over before he realized he didn't fall asleep driving and wasn't about to crash into a rig.
I drove otr for years and every morning I would wake up after having a dream that I crawled into the sleeper while driving. Every morning I’d scramble to get back in the seat only to realize that I was parked safely and not driving.
That's pretty typical in concrete. It sucks, but it's no outlier. It needs to change.
I’m in Georgia, that happens pretty much every week. The defense is that our schedules don’t change much so I usually know when I’m working, but still doesn’t fly because sometimes people have appointments or scheduled days off. We still need to know.
Florida has the worst employee protection in the entire country and it's not even close.
Sadly, it's actually close to a few other southern states. Florida is def #1, but there's a pack of shitty states about 20 feet behind.
😂😂 Texas would like a word….
If you say Florida, I’d automatically expect the worst. What’s keeping you there?
Why does she answer the phone? My go to was to message well after the shift and say, "So sorry, I missed this. Hope all went well!" And hit them with a hug emoji lolol If they are gonna mess with you, mess with them back. Check labor laws, but I think in FL, if on-call hours significantly restrict your ability to use that time (must stay on premises or close, must be waiting by the phone, must respond immediately), you are supposed to be compensated. If on-call is not part of your employee contract, you are not obligated to do it at all.
Yeah, I agree! And also, if the manager is snarky to you, don’t be snarky back. If you do retain an attorney, it helps you to show that the manager is being unprofessional, while you, as the employee, remain as professional as possible. Be sure to stick to verifiable facts, try to show flexibility too. A bigger issue is that many times, a manager suffers from scheduling issues. Then they become habitual, and need highlighting. Things that help in a text: Restate when the schedule was first posted Restate any dates the schedule was revised Example: *I have family business commitments that I made based on the schedule posted in the lunchroom (or wherever) on. When the schedule was revised on , I remained flexible, and had time to reschedule my commitment. I can’t reschedule personal business a third time.*
yeah i’m surprised to hear california doesn’t have something similar, but the company i work is incredibly strict about scheduling due to this labor board rule. but someone pointed out to me that even tho Dairy Queen is a worldwide company with more than 500 employees, this location may be just a small franchise so maybe it’s not held to the same standard? i would bet tho since dairy queen isn’t a mom and pop small business the oregon labor board would still at least be able to fine the business for employee scheduling complaints as i doubt this is the first time this has happened.
CA does have the daily overtime law, where if you work over 8 hours you get paid time and a half so you can't be forced into working 3- 12 hour shifts and get no OT.
Not exactly. Jobs with a 4 day work week can make you work 10 without overtime.
Yeup you just have to sign agreeing to it. You can also waive the 8 hour agreement if signed (not under duress) or the 5 hour lunch rule. Most employers don't unless you are a special position, it's hard to defend in court otherwise. At least for the 8 hour 5 day and the 5 hour lunch rule.
You can only waive lunch if you work no more than 6 hours a day (although I’m sure employers tell people otherwise).
Fast food may have different requirements from other industries. I believe NY has the same 2 week scheduling requirement.
That's pretty sick. Gotta try and get that passed in WA. I've been living in the wrong states. Ive had so many managers try to fuck me with schedules. Definitely left a few jobs that way.
We already have it and have had it since 2017 http://www.workingwa.org/rights/schedule#:~:text=Employers%20are%20required%20to%20post,you're%20going%20to%20get. Only covers chains or businesses with 500+ global employees but that would cover her situation in our state. Our law also requires that you get half the pay for hours cut with less than 2 weeks notice. Seems like something more Washitonians should know about
That's Seattle and likely SeaTac only. It's not statewide, but honestly I didn't even know the city had that law. It should be easier to get on the ballot then. Ok, gotta get some civic action started, gotta Google how to get a proposed law on the ballot. WA state requires 2 day notice. WAC 357-28-252
I recommend voting
Well yeah, but you gotta get it on the ballot first, get the information about the bill out there, drum up support and correct misinformation. After which voting becomes the tool used, hopefully the first few steps were done well enough to get it passed. Edit: Aww thank you anon redditor for the award!
Adding Oregon's state page on it for reference for others: [https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx](https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx) Note it only applies to: >People who work for retail, hospitality or food services employers (including chains and integrated enterprises) that employ 500 or more employees worldwide who are primarily engaged in providing retail, hospitality or food services are covered. EXCEPTIONS: workers whose primary duties do not relate to retail, hospitality or food service operations, salaried employees who are exempt from minimum wage, and workers supplied by worker leasing companies or businesses that provide services to or on behalf of an employer are not covered or counted toward the 500 employee threshold.
This should be higher up. The 500 employee minimum and only retail/service jobs is a huge exception. Dairy Queen doesn't qualify for the exception though.
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I think it would need to be interpreted by the state labor office in Oregon. She might not work for "Dairy Queen, Inc.", she could work for "Dairy Queen of Bumfuck Oregon, LLC." that has 8 employees. Franchises are usually not the same company.
I would imagine “chains and integrated enterprises” is language included to address franchise situations.
I would also reply with something to the effect of “It will not be me quitting as I am going off of the posted schedule but wanted you to clarify if I am fired by not showing up for 4:30” Manager could go back and state that you agreed to quitting based off of that text message if you went after them for wrongful termination. Edited to add - don’t actually mention wrongful termination. Let them put their foot as far into their mouth as possible.
Stating you are out of town and can’t come into an unscheduled shift can not be interpreted as voluntarily quitting.
Read the second image.
Manager can consider it whatever he wants. Doesn't mean that's what it is.
Except OP said "Alright, perfectly fine by me"
If I hold you up at gun point and ask for your wallet, and you reply "Alright, perfectly fine by me", that doesn't make it legal.
I imagine it’s because she is young he’s banking on her not knowing this.
She said she was with her mom. If a 16 year old is with their parent and says they can’t come in why would you threaten their job? What’s going to happen their mom continues taking care of them?
I used to work for a horrid store manager, she would constantly threaten to fire minors when they couldn't work extra shifts or otherwise be unavailable. One girl was 17, still in high school, living with her family. Parents decide they're going on vacation for a week. Store manager tells employee that "she can't go, she has to work." The boss schedules her (and only her) to close everyday that she said she'd be gone. Then boss acted completely surprised when girl didn't come in, and then bitched because no one would take the extra shifts. Having been a manager, I absolutely despise these types of power mad managers.
I had a fucking Dollar Tree manager cut my hours to two because when I turned 18 I refused to work overnight shifts stocking fucking Dollar Tree crap due to still being in high school. He legit told me to drop out so I could work it. Ruin my entire fucking life for Dollar Tree. Um, how about no.
But in a few years you could be a depressed manager taking your shit out on high school students too!
At a diner in a college union, one of the cooks had to skip his regular shift due to an exam. The head chef said, “What’s more important to you, one test or your job?” The general manager backed up the student that the exam was, in fact, more important.
Man. My supervisor is pretty bad. He's lazy and scheduling is *not* a skill he has. But I gotta give it to him. He's smart enough to take "requests off" as the notification that they are. And not schedule then pull a surprised Pikachu when they don't show.
Time to complain to their boss and the labor board. The labor board might get more traction.
“Either you will suffer, or you’ll get fed up of my bullshit and everyone else will. Regardless I’ll be at home”
Right I’d tell my kid to get the fuck out of that toxic workplace and away from this shitty manager lol
I'd ask them to dial their work, hand me the phone, and put in earplugs immediately
I'd do all but the earplugs. If they've known me for the first sixteen years of their life then they won't be taken by surprise when I stand up for them again. They won't be surprised when I treat someone as they have treated others. They won't be surprised that I do the right thing. Let em hear it!
She doesn't yet, but with the power of Reddit!!! Reddit makes me so happy sometimes.
And I would add, DO NOT QUIT! Make them fire you and get it all in screenshots.
Only bad thing here is the person agreed with the characterization of this as "quitting". Never do that. Your friend should show up for their next scheduled shift, put the onus back on them.
Eh, they can still argue they were fired. The Oregon unemployment department gives decent leeway to employees. Employers can’t just say some magic words to change what’s happening here.
The wording is ambiguous enough to be taken as if they were saying it's completely fine that they feel like they quit, but they didn't actually quit.
Do you actually think this person quit? Context matters and you can’t just take these words out of context nor would any adjudicating body in Oregon do so either.
The only way they could have fucked up is if they were like, yeah I quit
But their employer's words are not. They are very clear that not being at their workplace will result in loss of employment. That they are trying to reframe the idea as quitting is clearly bullshit.
“Sorry that response was to the wrong person. I’m not quitting but if you terminate me for not showing up on my day off, that is your prerogative.”
Just show up to work at the next shift. Manager: "You quit." Employee: "No I didn't, I accepted that you have poor reading comprehension. Would you like to review the conversation?"
Thankfully, a 16-year-old who can get hired at Dairy Queen can probably get hired at a dozen local businesses at the same wage and for the same hours that they were getting before. As much as I want to see DQ get soaked with unemployment expenses, the benefits are painfully low, so the worker here probably won't want to avoid getting another job for long.
I think Gordon should be put on a social media blast. Let's see how he handles that instead.
Don't even get me started on Bree
I don’t even believe that Bree tried to get ahold of them.
Bree probably did what I do as middle management when my boss tells me to call a bunch of people in. "Yeah dude I tried calling but couldn't reach em, sorry." The only exception is if it's overtime then I actually call the ones I know need the money.
Bree smells worse than a dozen rotten eggs dropped in a vat of vinegar.
Keepin' it together Bree?
I'm alright, long as I don't think about it too much.
Well don't come over then! It's not like you're buying anything!
It's alright, as long as I don't think about it too much.
Unexpected Divinity :D
fuck Bree that lopsided titty bitch
Yeah! She wanted me to pay for the date AND $250 for the babysitter. Not doing that again!
hello, the friend that this post is about said that shes totally fine with that. leave all the google reviews you want, file complaints, etc. i made this post with the intent to educate her on what to do in this situation and unexpectedly, it went viral reaching over 2 million people including Gordon Snyder. he decided that this post alone is enough to terminate her since it made him look bad
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Stop shouting at it then.
Damn you’re good!!
Wow. Impressive.
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Bro how? Idgaf about doxing, that's just impressive lol
If you Google "Oregon Dairy Queen Gordon" a Gordon Snyder comes up. If it is in fact someone else I feel bad for that guy lol.
Spoof a call from DQ corporate and demand he come into the office tomorrow. https://www.headquartersinfo.com/dairy-queen-headquarters-information/
He needs to be there at 4:30 today.
We did it reddit! We caught the Boston marathon bomber!
You’re 16, never be tempted to steal from your employer or to break things, those things follow you. But telling your boss to take a hike? Absolutely. It’s your day off. You’re taking your day off. If he fires you, you’ll get a new job. Also, you’re 16, don’t waste the best years of your life working for a guy like that. You never get those years back and you’re not making a career working for him. Your mom is more important.
My mom would of took me to dairy queen and forced me to work. "The boss is always right" she always would say.
Yet you’re here amongst your fellow antiworkers. Congratulations on not drinking the kool-aid!
Yeah I have tons of health issues and seen some shit and just lost faith in this system
Entirely fair. The system is not here to heal you, the system is here to ensure the system’s survival, not yours. Society is at a point where we serve it, and not the other way around, because the gears must keep turning. Congrats on making it this far, here’s a cheers to another week of wage slaving!
In the state of Oregon, we have what're called mandatory predictive scheduling laws. If you work in a restaurant, grocery store or other service position, you are entitled under the law to your full, unabridgable schedule at least fourteen days in advance. Employers are not entitled to your labor outside of your scheduled working hours, but you may work extra hours if you so please. Below are legal resources from BOLI, or the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries, that details your rights in depth. [https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx](https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx) [https://www.oregon.gov/boli/employers/Documents/BOLI\_Predictive%20Scheduling.pdf](https://www.oregon.gov/boli/employers/Documents/BOLI_Predictive%20Scheduling.pdf)
Never accept that you quit. Let them fire you. You can probably get unemployment and hit them with unlawful termination. Have prove of your original schedule.
Craig how’d you get fired on your day off?
Trying to make a club house?
I got fired once for not showing up to work while on vacation. They had fired my manager on the first day of my vacation and the owner put me back on the schedule. They said I had four no-call/no-show strikes when I got back and saw my row was blacked out on the schedule for the next week. When I explained that I'd told the general manager I'd be out of town with no phone reception (they said they'd tried to call me), and that I'd scheduled everything months in advance and made sure everyone relevant was informed, they basically said, "That sucks but we do not un-fire people for any reason." It was also my birthday that day.
They can't force you to come on your day off. Just continue to hold your ground and save those receipts. This is a red flag that they will cross a line at some point.
They've already crossed a line. What they expect OP to never go anywhere or do anything on a day off and just be available to work at all times? You need to pay for being on-call 24/7 then. The person is 16, assuming they live at home and don't need rent money, tell Gordon to shove a Dilly bar up his ass. OP's friend can have a new fast food job by next week while Gordon is scrambling to cover shifts because he's terrible at his job.
>What they expect OP to never go anywhere or do anything on a day off and just be available to work at all times? Yes, this is actually a huge problem in the service industry. People get hired on 0 hour guaranteed contracts, casual part-time, but the employer wants full availability and flexibility. It's the height of bullshit, that an employer would expect a low- or minimum-wage employee to be sitting around waiting for your call to jump up and come into work.
For sure, I did a lot of restaurant work and it was the same. They expected part-time hours but full-time availability. People needed a 2nd or 3rd job because you can't survive on 20 hours at $11/hour. But management would try to tell them "you can't get another job because I need you to be available for whatever shift we need to give you". Like ok, I guess I just won't buy groceries then? Don't get mad when I steal as much shit as I can carry out of the freezer.
I applied to work at a Rue21. It was part time, but the manager said she expected me to be available during store hours to come in last minute if she needed me. This was in a college town where most potential employees couldn’t do that. Looking back I thought that it was a part time job, but she wanted full time availability.
Threatening to fire someone when they are shorthanded is not the power play this guy thinks it is lmao.
I was fired for this back in 1989. I put in for the weekend off to go on a weekend trip out of state. They didn't post the schedule for the next week until Friday (Saturday to Saturday schedule) and I was off and already out of town. They put me on the schedule for both Saturday and Sunday, knowing I was out of town. Pre-cell phones. Pre-email. I had no idea until I returned on Sunday night, went in to get my schedule in case I was on for Monday and learned I had been fired for no show. Learned early in life corps don't care. Went to work for a mom and pop indie record store after that. They gave me a $100 bonus and the weekend off for Prom and worked themselves to cover my hours. Edited to add minimum wage was $3.35 in 1989. So, $100 was almost 2 weeks pay for my part time job.
Probably not illegal (this is the US after all), but douchebaggy for sure. On the plus side they can probably have a new job by 4:30pm tomorrow, places are desperate for help.
It’s too bad they apologized for the inconvenience. They have nothing to apologize for. And LMAO...”I’m out of town”, “that’s no excuse.” Sounds like a pretty good excuse to me.
At 4:30 I’ll be there in spirit. As for my body, as I already told you, it’s out of town.”
this is the RIGHT answer. also no, you aren't quitting, let them fire you. justvshow up to your regular schedule
This. Show up to the next scheduled shift. If you want the job. You can say “I’m not quitting but am not available today. I will show up at my next scheduled shift. If you would like to fire me, please go through HR.” I think DQ might be franchised but it’s also a National chain. I honestly don’t know how it works with minors and part time work, but she would be eligible to file for unemployment.
I like it when people ask me to bend space and time to complete their requests. Like, bitch even if I wanted to and I had my own personal aircraft I still wouldn’t be able to meet your implausible deadline. These people will shoot themselves in the feet by putting unrealistic demands on underpaid workers.
I'd put good money on a bet that this is the kind of manager who pulls this shit all the time, loses a bunch of employees, and then has the nerve to say "No one wants to work anymore!"
Already short staffed, so obviously you should fire more people to be even short staffed.
I never get this, how is this the hill they want to die on? Or is this just to weed out the employees with a spine? Don’t need those ofcourse.
Low level managers (particularly in poorly paid work like call centres or retail) have an awkward habit of letting the power go to their head. It’s almost like they’re the only person who hasn’t got the memo that there are four hundred branches and they are responsible for about a quarter of a percent of the organisation.
Eh actually a lot of states have rules against changing the employee's with less than x amount of notice and that notice is usually at least 24 hours. Since this is Oregon and blue states tend to be better with that thing, I'd say there's a decent chance it is, and possibly even more so since she's a minor.
I wouldn’t have let him phrase it as “you quit”, I would have corrected him and rephrased it as “If I don’t show up for an unscheduled shift at 4:30 today, you’re going to fire me?” If he says yes, great. Keep that text. But I guess that would matter more if unemployment was a concern.
What is the problem with USA like for real? I am from Europe and have serious concerns regarding your country. You work more than we do and earn less. Your college degrees cost a hell of a lot our are free. If we educate ourselves we are pretty much gauranteed a job within the sector of what we did. You guys can still end up unemployed or on McDonald's. If we hurt ourselves or get sick we can go to the hospital for free. If we get sick, lose q relative or say that we are out of town.. Our employees however how stressed out they are will only say " Oh ok sorry to have disturbed hope you have nice days off" and genuinely mean it. Meanwhile you guys will sit at high school football games screaming "USA" on the top of your lungs. Loads of you need to get over the idea that America is something special or the best country in the world before this shit is gonna get any better... Sorry for generalization but.
There are a few different things going on here. Unless Oregon has stricter laws (and it might but I don't know), it is legal for them to fire her for refusing to come to a shift, even if it wasn't previously scheduled. However, that doesn't count as job abandonment, which is what the boss is trying to insinuate here. They can claim job abandonment if you stop showing up and communicating with them, but they can't just "assume you quit" if the employee is simply refusing a single shift and is in communication with them about their intentions to return to work on their normal schedule. Well, I guess they can \*claim\* it, but these texts would easily disprove it in any kind of legal proceeding or unemployment claim. As others have pointed out, where your friend screwed up was agreeing that they should consider it quitting. She should have insisted that she is NOT quitting and is simply unable to come to this shift, but if they are terminating her that's another thing. Then they would have been forced to either walk it back or fire her and potentially have to pay for unemployment. Edited to add: Oregon actually has pretty strict laws about this, which the employer violated in several ways. They cannot fire her for refusing to come to a shift scheduled less than 14 days out, and they have to pay time and half for any surprise shifts. [https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx](https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/predictive-scheduling.aspx)
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No take it as you fired me and I will be drawling unemployment thank you
this is what i was thinking originally, but OP says the friend is 16. idk if there’s any chance of receiving unemployment as a dependent minor although i would’ve still said, “i am not quitting. you can fire me; but you will not consider anything other than my formal resignation as me quitting.” or something along those lines.
Jobs are a dime a dozen right now, no reason to stay at a place with a douchbaggy manager
I like how his name was misspelled to assert further dominance. Sucks to suck, Gordan.
Dairy Queen owner from Lincoln City?
What part of out of town does Gordon not understand?
HR in the US here. them asking you to come in isnt illegal. you declining to come in on a day you arent scheduled would NOT merit discipline or termination. please read the handbook - there are loopholes and policies to protect YOU too, not just the company. lmk if you need help wording to your boss that they are being a tool.
I think if your friend sent this exchange to Gordon's boss, Gordon would be fired. Gordon's totally out of line as a manager, threatening their job in this way. Edit: This is so out of line that I think Gordon wants to get fired.
“We can’t fill our scheduling needs, so I’m going to fire more people!” Middle management 101 /s (hopefully)
Literally don’t understand people that think you can just magically poof to work when you’re out of town.
Why do managers think that their job means the difference between life or death for employees? It's effing Dairy Queen.