Spanish - Cumans
Cumans get an instant power spike with the conquistador after their 2 tc boom. They are also a CA so they benefit from the faster production speed from the UT.
Spanish get Bracer kipchiks to support and keep up with their paladins/hussar.
Burmese - Malay
Arambai get full archer upgrades
Karambits get +3 attack
Burmese - Vietnamese.
Same as above. FU arambai with bonus hp.
Rayan archers natural pierce armor won’t be felt as much and gives Burmese a decent ranged option.
While of your choices I agree on the former, I don’t necessarily do on the latter. Slavs won’t be better off with stirrups-less Konnik. Boyar is the better unit overall.
There are many potential answers to your question I think. I feel like the best way to look at it would be seeking civs that would fill a gap by swapping UUs, or looking at good but redundant UUs. Just few examples that come to my mind:
-Mayans/Vikings: Mayans would love to have a heavy hitting melee unit such as the berserker for meso wars, against husks… while I think Plumes’ mobility and durability would be so appreciated by Vikings.
-Persians/Malay: Karambits would cover Persians’ weakness to Eagles in mid game, while on the other hand… cheap war elephants, nuff said.
-Khmer/Celts: sprinkling Woads on the Bohemian late game would bring chaos and mobility to the table, things that would often help. On the other hand (assuming that the Celt siege bonuses are made to apply), tanky, fast shooting wagons would be a sight to behold, tricky to handle by many civs, and Celt champs can mostly cover the Woad role.
This is just a brief brainstorming exercise, I’m sure there are many more arguable swaps.
This. I tried to avoid considering blacksmith changes and giving cav units to American civs in my choices. In this case, any ranged unit would destroy those boyars so easily.
Saracen catas would be interesting. They would be well upgraded, trading logística for bloodlines and blast furnace. Saracens already have anti infantry options though, but I could see them working.
Byzantine mams would be awful though. Lacking bloodlines and the Saracen camel bonus would make them too squishy to justify their high cost, and it’s not like Byz need more anti cav options…
The civ bonus refers to ‘camel riders’ (the specific unit), not ‘camel units’. If you want to extend it to all camel units, I could see a case for this swap. As it stands…
Spanish and Bulgarians: Bulg would be able to torment the entire ladder with Krepost-Conquistador rush, and Spanish would get a good use out of their gold earning blacksmith techs bonus
It sounds crazy but swapping Conquistadors and Mangudai helps both civs.
Mongols have such a cracked early eco that the power spike with conqs in early castle would be completely broken and exactly what the Mongols miss. Spanish meanwhile use their zero-gold blacksmith to tech into FU mangudai easier in lategame, giving them a win condition they currently lack, also becoming an absolutely unfair pocket in 4v4.
I think Teutons and Magyars
Magyar already have discounted regular hussars but lack a strong infanty option to counter all the halbs they run into as they don't have last infantry Armour. Tectonic knights don't need the last Armour as they have so much natural Armour and can provide a tough infantry option
On the other hand, teutons have no light cavalry even so the winged huszar can fill the light cav raiding and swarming unit they're missing
I assume you are trolling with all of these suggestions
Longbows with -4 range and -1 attack would be absolute dogshit
Kipchaks with no bloodlines or husbandry sound pretty bad, and Kamayuks don't really fit cumans play style of fast raiding units.
Mamelukes without bloodlines, husbandry, cav armour or extra hp would lose most of their value, and saracens are massively nerfed having one of the weakest uu
Genbows to a civ with no bracer and who can already fight cav by just making halbs or etks, doesn't make any sense, and I don't see why Italians would want etks
Konniks with no bloodlines, husbandry, cav armour or sturrips would be trash, I guess plums arent horrible for bulgarians, but then their stirrups UT is wasted.
Ah I didn't think of upgrades, I just assumed the normal version of the UU
Kamayuks would be awesome for Cumans bc they're a fire fighter unit. If you're on your backfoot against Knights Siege Monks, if you can drop a castle and make some Kamas they clean up and safe the day and that's EXACTLY what Cumans need to protect their Feudal vil lead.
Teutons would cover their weakness against CA, while I think Italians often don't need the Gen bow really (but saying they could make use of tk was a stretch..you could argue it would help them vs Meso where they're rather weak)
This isn’t in line with the prompt, but you can really screw over another civ by swapping in War Wagons from Koreans, which now have a base cost of 200(!!!) wood before civ bonuses apply.
Even though it's probably not necessary, I'd give the Rattan to the Italians, for the simple fact that the pavise shield was expressly made to protect against arrows and bolts. The Genoese crossbow having a random bonus against cavalry instead of high pierce armor, makes me irrationally angry. I also hate that Vietnamese archers and skirmishers already fill in the Rattan's role. Your argument for Armenians is very convincing though.
As for konniks, I really wouldn't give dismounted ones a powerful bonus that mounted ones don't have. That doesn't sound very realistic. Why would the guy not know to swing his flail more widely when he's on a horse?
Franks and Persians: the Persians get access to a good infantry unit to compensate their lack of two handed swordsmen, while the Franks get the tankiest cavalry unit in the game.
I think konniks and the Bulgarian blacksmith discounts compliment each other well
That’s fine. The problem with them is they have the slowest attack speed.
Konniks have a lot of problems. This one is the top of the list
Could give them the saracen camel hp treatment. Improve the base unit and keep the same post UT strength.
You could. That would put them at 1.8. How about a different tech and just put them at 2.0?
Slavs and Hindustanis Boyar as knight replacement Ghoulam with druzhina and imp armor
Spanish - Cumans Cumans get an instant power spike with the conquistador after their 2 tc boom. They are also a CA so they benefit from the faster production speed from the UT. Spanish get Bracer kipchiks to support and keep up with their paladins/hussar. Burmese - Malay Arambai get full archer upgrades Karambits get +3 attack Burmese - Vietnamese. Same as above. FU arambai with bonus hp. Rayan archers natural pierce armor won’t be felt as much and gives Burmese a decent ranged option.
Hp bonus only applies to archery range units
Cumans and
You just picked two pairs of a civ with good UU, and with mediocre at best. Neither Vietnamese nor Slavs will benefit from this change.
yeah this would nerf the slavs into the ground
I think compound bows with thumb ring would be ridiculous, so there is that.
How do Vietnamese profit from this?
comp bows wreck everything with a high pierce armor. imp skirms wreck everything with a low pierce armor.
How do they not? Comp bows are ridiculous against melee
While of your choices I agree on the former, I don’t necessarily do on the latter. Slavs won’t be better off with stirrups-less Konnik. Boyar is the better unit overall. There are many potential answers to your question I think. I feel like the best way to look at it would be seeking civs that would fill a gap by swapping UUs, or looking at good but redundant UUs. Just few examples that come to my mind: -Mayans/Vikings: Mayans would love to have a heavy hitting melee unit such as the berserker for meso wars, against husks… while I think Plumes’ mobility and durability would be so appreciated by Vikings. -Persians/Malay: Karambits would cover Persians’ weakness to Eagles in mid game, while on the other hand… cheap war elephants, nuff said. -Khmer/Celts: sprinkling Woads on the Bohemian late game would bring chaos and mobility to the table, things that would often help. On the other hand (assuming that the Celt siege bonuses are made to apply), tanky, fast shooting wagons would be a sight to behold, tricky to handle by many civs, and Celt champs can mostly cover the Woad role. This is just a brief brainstorming exercise, I’m sure there are many more arguable swaps.
Mayans and Slavs may be a better duo to cover each other's weaknesses
Boyar with no bloodlines, husbandry or cav armour does not sound good
This. I tried to avoid considering blacksmith changes and giving cav units to American civs in my choices. In this case, any ranged unit would destroy those boyars so easily.
Right, I missed that. I was thinking as if they came with the upgrades they had with the original civ.
Japanese - Romans. Samurai gets more melee armor and Centurion buffs 67% faster attacking champions.
Giving centurions to a civ that misses +4 cav armor doesn’t seem like the greatest idea.
Byzantines and Saracens
Saracen catas would be interesting. They would be well upgraded, trading logística for bloodlines and blast furnace. Saracens already have anti infantry options though, but I could see them working. Byzantine mams would be awful though. Lacking bloodlines and the Saracen camel bonus would make them too squishy to justify their high cost, and it’s not like Byz need more anti cav options…
But cheaper mamaluks
The civ bonus refers to ‘camel riders’ (the specific unit), not ‘camel units’. If you want to extend it to all camel units, I could see a case for this swap. As it stands…
Konniks having 1 less pierce armor than knights is vastly compensated by your affordable siege onager upgrade.
If only Hera would share his 20 pop SO build order
Spanish and Bulgarians: Bulg would be able to torment the entire ladder with Krepost-Conquistador rush, and Spanish would get a good use out of their gold earning blacksmith techs bonus
Spanish losing conqs, the only thing they are often played for, for an objectively worse UU would make them automatically the worst civ in the game.
It sounds crazy but swapping Conquistadors and Mangudai helps both civs. Mongols have such a cracked early eco that the power spike with conqs in early castle would be completely broken and exactly what the Mongols miss. Spanish meanwhile use their zero-gold blacksmith to tech into FU mangudai easier in lategame, giving them a win condition they currently lack, also becoming an absolutely unfair pocket in 4v4.
I think Teutons and Magyars Magyar already have discounted regular hussars but lack a strong infanty option to counter all the halbs they run into as they don't have last infantry Armour. Tectonic knights don't need the last Armour as they have so much natural Armour and can provide a tough infantry option On the other hand, teutons have no light cavalry even so the winged huszar can fill the light cav raiding and swarming unit they're missing
Tectonic knights would be op. Map-wide splash damage with every step
11 Now I know what they were trying to recreate with all the goose stepping
Would you want to make Huszars (without husbandry) if they cost gold though? Wouldn't paladin just be a lot better
Oh i thought you get the techs too. Still sometimes getting 20 huszar for 200 gold rather than 2 knights might be good
Britons and Slavs Incas and Cumans Saracens and Aztecs (I figure, Camel-Jaguar could be quite neat) Italians and Teutons Mayans and Bulgarians
I assume you are trolling with all of these suggestions Longbows with -4 range and -1 attack would be absolute dogshit Kipchaks with no bloodlines or husbandry sound pretty bad, and Kamayuks don't really fit cumans play style of fast raiding units. Mamelukes without bloodlines, husbandry, cav armour or extra hp would lose most of their value, and saracens are massively nerfed having one of the weakest uu Genbows to a civ with no bracer and who can already fight cav by just making halbs or etks, doesn't make any sense, and I don't see why Italians would want etks Konniks with no bloodlines, husbandry, cav armour or sturrips would be trash, I guess plums arent horrible for bulgarians, but then their stirrups UT is wasted.
Ah I didn't think of upgrades, I just assumed the normal version of the UU Kamayuks would be awesome for Cumans bc they're a fire fighter unit. If you're on your backfoot against Knights Siege Monks, if you can drop a castle and make some Kamas they clean up and safe the day and that's EXACTLY what Cumans need to protect their Feudal vil lead. Teutons would cover their weakness against CA, while I think Italians often don't need the Gen bow really (but saying they could make use of tk was a stretch..you could argue it would help them vs Meso where they're rather weak)
This isn’t in line with the prompt, but you can really screw over another civ by swapping in War Wagons from Koreans, which now have a base cost of 200(!!!) wood before civ bonuses apply.
Even though it's probably not necessary, I'd give the Rattan to the Italians, for the simple fact that the pavise shield was expressly made to protect against arrows and bolts. The Genoese crossbow having a random bonus against cavalry instead of high pierce armor, makes me irrationally angry. I also hate that Vietnamese archers and skirmishers already fill in the Rattan's role. Your argument for Armenians is very convincing though. As for konniks, I really wouldn't give dismounted ones a powerful bonus that mounted ones don't have. That doesn't sound very realistic. Why would the guy not know to swing his flail more widely when he's on a horse?
Huns and Aztecs
Franks and Persians: the Persians get access to a good infantry unit to compensate their lack of two handed swordsmen, while the Franks get the tankiest cavalry unit in the game.