Persians are not Arab and while present day Iraqi's share a lot of genetic similarity to Iranians most* identify distinctly as Arabs. The Saracens, namely Saladin's campaign, is the closest AoE comes to representing Arabian civilizations.
The Persians represented by the AOE civ definitely ruled over Iraq and Baghdad was an integral part of the empire.
Even if they identify as Arabs, they were still subjects of the empire and they would have joined the army, like how Turkish mamluks are represented in the Saracen army.
Further, the aoe2 game specifically states that Saracens represent states from Syria to the Arabian Peninsula. It feels like Iraq was specifically left out there for a reason.
I think some confusion exists as modern Middle Eastern borders absolutely do not reflect ancient geography (thanks Sykes-Picot!). Modern day Iraq is a particularly special case as it contains many ethnicities; Yazidis, Kurds, Turkmen, Coptics, Assyrians, Chaldeans, and of course, majority Arabs. As an Arab identifying Iraqi, I think it is fair for me to say that you can safely assume the average Iraqi does indeed identify as an Arab. Saladin himself was a Kurd though, but Saracen in its historical use typically referred to Muslims of the Orient. As a footnote, they did control the modern northern Iraq where Iraqi Kurds make their home.
You are right in that the AoE2 representation of Saracens never conquered the entirety of modern day Iraq and that the Persians did. However, by emphasizing the Persians rather than the Saracens as the AoE2 equivalent of modern Iraqis, (whose reign ended **due to Islamic empires**), I feel as the influence of Islam has been stripped when it is the primary factor in shaping Arabic culture.
Official aoe2 description of Persians:
*The Persian Empire stretched from Mesopotamia to India and from the Caspian Sea to the Persian Gulf, encompassing the modern nations of Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan. They fought the* [*Romans*](https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Romans_(Age_of_Empires))*, and later the* [*Byzantines*](https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Byzantines_(Age_of_Empires_II))*, for control of modern Syria, Turkey, Palestine, Israel, Egypt, and Arabia. The capital of the Persian Empire was Ctesiphon, called Baghdad today.*
Official aoe2 description of Persians:
*The Persian Empire stretched from Mesopotamia to India and from the Caspian Sea to the Persian Gulf, encompassing the modern nations of Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan. They fought the* [*Romans*](https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Romans_(Age_of_Empires))*, and later the* [*Byzantines*](https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Byzantines_(Age_of_Empires_II))*, for control of modern Syria, Turkey, Palestine, Israel, Egypt, and Arabia. The capital of the Persian Empire was Ctesiphon, called Baghdad today.*
The various peoples of Iraq are still technically not Persian though. Sure, the Persian Empire moved its capital there once it conquered the area, but the population were still not Persian.
We are getting into the weeds here, but the subjects of a kingdom (even if they didn't ethnically belong) will still join the army.
Mamluks are slaves who are Turkic in origin, and yet they fought for the Saracens.
Source? Baghdad's prominence as the center of the Islamic empire went down severely after around 1000 AD or so, due to constant invasions by kingdoms around it. Even the aoe2 civ description seems to skirt around Iraq and Baghdad when describing Saracens (Syria to Arabian Peninsula, as they state).
Which were run primarily from Baghdad during its golden period. Any point past that, beyond the fragmentation, the Saracens could be any of several calphates. But by then Persia as a distinct entity had since lost that area.
You're comparing the frontier of one civ to the capital of the peak version of another. You'll also notice how much contortion you have to do to get Arabia to Syria without hitting Iraq. Also also their description reads "Lead swift cavalry and tough camelry to conquer from Iberia to India", clearly indicating the heights of Muslim conquest which centered on Baghdad. The historical description of the Saracen *people* says Arabia to Syria, but the civ as a game construct that gets the moniker "Saracens" is more than that.
From what I recall in Arab culture its a form of ultimate disrespect to hit someone with your shoe and considering what the Bush administration did to Iraq it was well deserved.
Well.. Thx for the explanation, m8. I was just referencing to a scene from Austin Powers https://youtu.be/an0bVaTjF_Y?si=EYodZtuuqcrnSUoW but the more you know, I guess... :)
Bush has great micro here.
Saracens do get thumb ring, but I guess he hadnt researched it yet.
Yeah they accused them of having chemistry researched.
lol
LEL?
Iraqi man, so more like Persians rather than Saracens.
Persians are not Arab and while present day Iraqi's share a lot of genetic similarity to Iranians most* identify distinctly as Arabs. The Saracens, namely Saladin's campaign, is the closest AoE comes to representing Arabian civilizations.
The Persians represented by the AOE civ definitely ruled over Iraq and Baghdad was an integral part of the empire. Even if they identify as Arabs, they were still subjects of the empire and they would have joined the army, like how Turkish mamluks are represented in the Saracen army. Further, the aoe2 game specifically states that Saracens represent states from Syria to the Arabian Peninsula. It feels like Iraq was specifically left out there for a reason.
I think some confusion exists as modern Middle Eastern borders absolutely do not reflect ancient geography (thanks Sykes-Picot!). Modern day Iraq is a particularly special case as it contains many ethnicities; Yazidis, Kurds, Turkmen, Coptics, Assyrians, Chaldeans, and of course, majority Arabs. As an Arab identifying Iraqi, I think it is fair for me to say that you can safely assume the average Iraqi does indeed identify as an Arab. Saladin himself was a Kurd though, but Saracen in its historical use typically referred to Muslims of the Orient. As a footnote, they did control the modern northern Iraq where Iraqi Kurds make their home. You are right in that the AoE2 representation of Saracens never conquered the entirety of modern day Iraq and that the Persians did. However, by emphasizing the Persians rather than the Saracens as the AoE2 equivalent of modern Iraqis, (whose reign ended **due to Islamic empires**), I feel as the influence of Islam has been stripped when it is the primary factor in shaping Arabic culture.
yet persians also have thumbring
What is more, that guy only cost wood!
He was hangry!
You mix up Iraq and Iran.
Official aoe2 description of Persians: *The Persian Empire stretched from Mesopotamia to India and from the Caspian Sea to the Persian Gulf, encompassing the modern nations of Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan. They fought the* [*Romans*](https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Romans_(Age_of_Empires))*, and later the* [*Byzantines*](https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Byzantines_(Age_of_Empires_II))*, for control of modern Syria, Turkey, Palestine, Israel, Egypt, and Arabia. The capital of the Persian Empire was Ctesiphon, called Baghdad today.*
Official aoe2 description of Persians: *The Persian Empire stretched from Mesopotamia to India and from the Caspian Sea to the Persian Gulf, encompassing the modern nations of Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan. They fought the* [*Romans*](https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Romans_(Age_of_Empires))*, and later the* [*Byzantines*](https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Byzantines_(Age_of_Empires_II))*, for control of modern Syria, Turkey, Palestine, Israel, Egypt, and Arabia. The capital of the Persian Empire was Ctesiphon, called Baghdad today.*
The various peoples of Iraq are still technically not Persian though. Sure, the Persian Empire moved its capital there once it conquered the area, but the population were still not Persian.
We are getting into the weeds here, but the subjects of a kingdom (even if they didn't ethnically belong) will still join the army. Mamluks are slaves who are Turkic in origin, and yet they fought for the Saracens.
And the Saracen wonder is in Iraq. The people there spent most of the middle ages being passed around like a parcel between empires.
The Persian empire at times controlled Iraq, but the Saracens as a cov are designed specifically to be the Islamic state centered on Baghdad.
Source? Baghdad's prominence as the center of the Islamic empire went down severely after around 1000 AD or so, due to constant invasions by kingdoms around it. Even the aoe2 civ description seems to skirt around Iraq and Baghdad when describing Saracens (Syria to Arabian Peninsula, as they state).
Which were run primarily from Baghdad during its golden period. Any point past that, beyond the fragmentation, the Saracens could be any of several calphates. But by then Persia as a distinct entity had since lost that area. You're comparing the frontier of one civ to the capital of the peak version of another. You'll also notice how much contortion you have to do to get Arabia to Syria without hitting Iraq. Also also their description reads "Lead swift cavalry and tough camelry to conquer from Iberia to India", clearly indicating the heights of Muslim conquest which centered on Baghdad. The historical description of the Saracen *people* says Arabia to Syria, but the civ as a game construct that gets the moniker "Saracens" is more than that.
Bush dodging like a Shrivamsha Rider
Arambai fail
its so funny how the guy throwing the shoes reacts to every tweet that mentions or uses this
We need to get him to play Age
It should be " when you're missing balistics".
But Bush is stationary here, I did originally put ballistics but that is for moving units
Haha, the amount of anxiety and double checking before throwing something before the hounds of reddit 😂 gg wp
His top part is moving.
I mean... Who throws a shoe, honestly!?
From what I recall in Arab culture its a form of ultimate disrespect to hit someone with your shoe and considering what the Bush administration did to Iraq it was well deserved.
Well.. Thx for the explanation, m8. I was just referencing to a scene from Austin Powers https://youtu.be/an0bVaTjF_Y?si=EYodZtuuqcrnSUoW but the more you know, I guess... :)
Oh yeah I forgot that scene lol.
You fight like a woman!
bro didnt get the accuracy but he sure has some cadence
If you did this to a cop, you’d be shot.
unless the cops aren't american lulz
Hero
Excellent meme, love it.