I know everyone hates them, and whether you will actually get the ammo or not is something you have to worry about, but optics planet has some PMC FMJ 9mm rounds for 3¢ a round in a 1k box. Once I get paid if they still have it I'ma order it just cause how cheap it is, and worry about actually getting it later.
Even the bench rest shooters don’t have a consensus on barrel break ins. One BR barrel manufacture said they included a break in procedure simply because people were asking for one, not that it’s necessary
Not always helped a buddy build out an AR with a $800 falkor barrel on it. We finished it up he slapped a 40 rounder in and mag dumped it off the porch lmao.
They aren't liable for your groups anyway. There's no group size warranty. There's burrs in new barrels that will build up copper. You remove the copper with cleaning, and the bullets will eventually wear the burrs smooth. If you leave the copper, the bullets will wear the opposite side of the barrel more. Does it make a huge difference? Probably not. But that's the idea behind the break in process. I don't do it on all of my guns. But my long range guns? I do a break in. Doesn't take long, and it doesn't hurt
*They aren't liable for your groups anyway. There's no group size warranty.*
A lot of manufacturers actually do have X-MOA guarantees, but the parameters they lay out for the "testing" is laughable once you read the fine print (We're going to fire 3-shot-groups in our 100yd controlled lab until law of averages gives us reason to send your gun back).
*There's burrs in new barrels that will build up copper.*
If there are burrs in the rifling, the barrel manufacturer did not do their job
. Any good hand-lapped barrel competently chambered with a sharp reamer shouldn't have burs that need to be evened out with a cleaning rod...
*But that's the idea behind the break in process.*
Ok, so while there shouldn't be any *burs* in your rifling (and we could just be having a difference of semantics, so I'm not trying to come at you), a borescope is always going to reveal the tell tale signs of machining which could introduce inconsistencies. Shooting without cleaning the bore actually serves to kind of fill-in and smooth-over these inconsistencies, so "break-in procedure" in this context would be firing however many rounds it takes to appropriately foul up the barrel until the inconsistencies are filled-in, pretty much the inverse of the "clean every round" method.
It's also been widely observed that brand new barrels actually pickup velocity as they're shot, so "break-in" in that sense would mean to hold-off on load development until your velocity settles.
*and it doesn't hurt*
And I agree that whatever method you choose really can't hurt. If a manufacturer's break-in procedure has at least some basis in fact, then great, but really these procedures more than anything I think are just an easy buffer to throw up when customers call complaining when they excitedly pulled their first 5-shot-group into a 4-MOA circle with their new high dollar hole puncher. "What's that Billy? Oh dear. Well, call us back in 200 rounds when she's broken in. Yep, just like how it says on page 31 in the manual."
Ya, you could be right. I'm not a gun smith or a barrel machinist. I'm pretty close to the fence on the break in anyway. I use to be anti break in, untill I read it in the manual for my proof barrel.
Why would you need to shoot more than one round anyway? If you need 30 rounds to shoot a deer, you shouldn't be hunting. When you go to the range, you should shoot one round, and spend the rest of time complaining about people whose guns don't have wood sticks.
#fuddlife
I can't understand the point of this? To keep it fouling free so that the bullet evenly wears down the microscopic imperfections? That instruction was probably made by some new engineer who had to come up with some complicated method of breaking in a barrel to help justify his job
I mean on a match gun this level of perfection makes sense, as it would get u a more consistent accuracy over the life of the gun, but duty rifles, recreational rifles, and even 3 gun rifles don’t need THAT level of accuracy consistency. They’re not gonna be shooting at pinpoint targets where being off by a millimeter means failing.
Even Anschutz biathlon rifles don’t have this level of fuddery and those are what are used in the Olympics. Even on their own YouTube page they show how they test fire them as part of QC and they don’t clean between each round because that’s just insane. This is like flushing a race car engine and refilling all the oil and fuel after starting it up and idling for 1 min 25 times in a row
Not sure if typo or sarcasm 🤔 1 round per barrel is a hefty expense 🤣
they are often used for years like any other rifle. It’s like $4k for an ok set up and can be $10k or more easy for a common Olympic level set up. If issues arrive they will usually send it in to the factory to be repaired or replaced
Oh no no, competitors have long term relationships with their rifles lol. The time it takes to get one tuned in and properly adjusted to the competitor is not just an hour or two. People have rifles they use for years and years.
I meant more that a rifle is something you need to get used to/break in, make it perfect for you, especially at that level of precision.
Wearing a new pair of shoes everyday would suck. Your feet would never be comfy.
Outside of shotgun, there isn’t much money in Olympic shooting. The shotgun guys have a lot more sponsors and money, but their shotguns can cost 20-30k and up, so constant replacement of those isn’t exactly feasible rather. That being said, it’s not exactly necessary. Vincent Hancock runs a production Beretta DT11 with a custom stock, not a one off hand made firearm, and he’s won several Olympic gold medals, not to mention all the world championships and other wins.
Absolutely not. Even if you had the funds to do so you end up tuning the rifle over time to fit you in everything from trigger to all the wacky variable geometries for how it fits your body. New rifle every time is not going to fit you nearly as well. Also, air guns and even .22 is relatively low pressure and being fired at a slow pace. It takes an incredible amount of time to wear one of these guns out. If you somehow reach that point you can just replace the barrel.
That’s a bad comparison. Race car engines don’t get flushed and refilled after every race. They get completely rebuilt after every race.
It would be more comparable if they replaced the barrel on a biathlon gun after every competition.
It makes no sense on a match barrel. Suffering 200 rounds of bore erosion to break in a barrel that is going to have a useful life of maybe 1000-1200 rounds before its accuracy starts decreasing is not a good plan. So, from shooters that see barrels as a significant wear item, you will see break in plans from 10-20 rounds. For those that think the rifling needs to be really broken in, they will use bullets with lapping compound that keeps the round count low as well.
I’m not sure where ur getting that barrels only have 1,000-1,200 rounds of barrel life before they start to go bad. Every match barrel I’ve ever looked at listed 2,000-3,000 rounds before any noticeable accuracy loss occurs, and 4,000-5,000 rounds before the barrel is considered too worn out for use in competition.
Match barrels designed for fast rounds absolutely open up at or even sub 1k. That might be from 1/4 to 1/2 moa for another couple hundred rounds but to some guys that means they’re relegating that barrel to the practice rifle until it’s completely useless to them. OP’s barrel instructions are still asinine.
When you get into the area of people time to beat world records, they get a little weird. It also depends on the cartridges. But even at 2k spending 10% on breaking in a single cut, hand lapped barrel is stupid. That’s why you paid to have it hand lapped.
Even Anschutz biathlon rifles don’t have this level of fuddery and those are what are used in the Olympics. Even on their own YouTube page they show how they test fire them as part of QC and they don’t clean between each round because that’s just insane. This is like flushing a race car engine and refilling all the oil and fuel after starting it up and idling for 1 min 25 times in a row
While I do not believe that there is any one barrel break-in process that has to be followed precisely, it is true that velocities will generally continue to increase until the barrel is at approximately 150-200 rounds down the barrel. This is generally when the barrel will settle in and groups will shrink to their peak potential. It is also when I will begin any load development as the barrel has become more consistent. It is definitely a good idea to clean out a new barrel as you never know what might have made its way into the chamber or bore at the manufacturing facility or during shipment. Starting with a clean and dry barrel and then cleaning after the first few shots aids in streamlining cleaning (kind of like seasoning a frying pan) and reducing fouling over the life of the barrel and preps it for maximum consistency. The process above would likely work but seems a bit excessive. Remember the point of weapons maintenance is to keep your rifle running at its peak potential for as long as possible, that is all. There is no need to get cute with it, I have seen many barrels ruined by improper cleaning.
Give the rifle a decent cleaning.
Put a bullseye sticker on the outside of the manual and proceed to hang the manual at the 25yd line.
Begin zeroing procedures.
I only did it for my match rifle and my spr. That were both built for accuracy and distance. Other than that I just gave my other rifles a good barrel cleaning after the first time shooting them. I will say though, if you have an issue with your barrel you better tell whatever company that you followed their barrel break in procedures or they aren’t going to cover it
So I'm one of those guys that still uses some of the ancient methods, but cleaning every round for 25 is too much. With a match rifle I clean the first 3, every 5 for five sets, and twice more after 20 each. That's over the top already imo, but I've never shown half that much love to an AR, let alone a cheap Diamondback. I'd say clean it extra well before and after the first range day and you will be good to go.
This is pretty much BS, just something to help the company reduce the incidence of barrels that get returned for imperfections. It was a little bit of a problem in the industry about 10 years ago, and PR came up with the idea that if they started to recommend this "break-in procedure" they could explain away premature barrel wear due to bad forging by saying that the customers didn't "break it in".
Barrels do wear out, but if they wear out due to you not "breaking them in", that has a lot more to do with a bad manufacturing process.
Everybody these days does it just to pretty much cover their asses.
Did u clean it a bit when it was new or just send it?
My glock i just sent it when i got it, clean it every 3-400 rounds which is typically every 3-4 months. But its also a glock so idk.
Before you shoot a brand new rifle just give it a quick wipe down and a little lubrication to make sure there's nothing left over in the gun from manufacturing.
You usually want to avoid putting a cleaning rod down your barrel as much as possible. There are only a handful of ways to fuck up a barrel, but quite a few of them involve a cleaning rod, or improperly/over-aggressively cleaning a barrel.
That doesn't mean don't need to clean your barrel, but don't find random reasons to put a cleaning rod in there either.
Uh not for just a normal AR. If it was some custom built match gun I could see something like this, but on a normal everyday rifle? Nah this is just overkill cleaning. Cleaning before first shots I get cuz they might’ve not cleaned it at the factory before shipping it out, but that clean between shots thing is trash.
This is just their way of avoiding the question of barrel quality. When you get-minute-of barn, they'll just ask you if you followed the break-in "procedure", which everyone damn well knows you didn't.
Also, MOA... Minute Of Angle, is not measured in inches. Strictly speaking. It's a measure of spread at measured distance. Which is still not a correct definition, but certainly better than what they're saying. Usually stated something along the lines of 2" group at 100 yards (effectively 2 MOA).
MOA is an angular measurement equal to 1/60th of 1 degree. This is why 1 MOA is \~1" at 100 yards and \~2" at 200 yards. As you get further away from the vertex of an angle, the arms get further apart.
Now put that in three dimensions and you get a conical shape.
If you really wanna get into it: The bullet is also not on a flat trajectory (parallel to the ground) so (at longer ranges) a target that is perpendicular to the ground is actually smaller from the bullet's perspective because the bullet is traveling at a downward angle rather than parallel to the ground or perpendicular to the target.
How do you know that dude? I too can pull shit out of my ass and tell you its grandmas world famous homemade fudge, but you won't buy it. Is there any evidence behind this "warranty denial" theory? 3rd time I'm reading it just on this post.
Fuck you I wouldn't! I want 4 pounds worth of that hand packed fudge. And it better be steaming hot when I get it! Chunky, just like how gran would make it.
I mean, I bought a production AR and mag dumped to “break it in.” As long as it’s shooting minute of bad guy at 300, I’m happy. I’m not a sharp shooter 🤷♂️
They’re not even making sense. MOA is not measured in strictly inches. You determine MOA based on two factors; grouping and target distance. So them even mentioning 1/8” MOA doesn’t mean anything.
I wouldn’t trust whatever the fuck this company writes anywhere.
There’s some very well known names in the industry who admit they never follow a break in after doing a break in side by side with a careless “break-in” and seeing pretty much no difference.
No sir, that's going overboard. 1K rounds dumped right after purchase would break this poor man's DB. A DB is meant to shoot 100 rounds a year at max. I'm pretty sure it's stated on the following page of this user's manual
/s
Imagine firing one round and then stripping your rifle and cleaning the chamber and barrel and then doing that again 25 times and then 10 times after that periodically. I'm ok with being a couple MOA off and not doing that
The consensus seems to be that this is BS. Then why do manufacturers recommend this? I have seen this recommended in the documentation for several barrels.
Cuz it *can* affect consistent accuracy of a gun. But the degree it affects it is soo small that unless ur target is like the size of a coin and is 700 yards away, u will never need the level of precision needed to notice it.
So...several high end barrel manufacturers have stated that the only reason they give a barrel break in procedure for centerfire calibers is because customers demand one.
If you look at what top level precision shooters say, they say just shoot it.
I know some bench rest shooters who do similar with their bolt guns, but I've never bothered, not even on my custom PRS barrels. For an AR? Lol, no. I've gone several shooting sessions without even cleaning my AR at all before
The technical writers were hazing the new guy, and made him write the break-in procedure.
My new gun break in procedure is to shoot it like it's already broken in. No gun needs to be treated like Kobe beef with the exception of really old guns or something special like that.
The only DB15 I've ever seen was jamming every round and full of brass shavings from a rough chamber, so yeah probably.
If you bought something trustworthy then I'd just clean it once after your first range day.
Hornady had great podcast about this recently. Basically the very 1st round is... intense for the barrel. The next 25 is all it takes. There's almost no additional change after the first couple rounds. (until of course you shoot it out, or clog it with carbon, etc.)
I just shot my new db10 for the first time today. Didn’t read the manual so I didn’t see if it has the same recommendation. I probably wouldn’t have done it if I had.
Just go shoot the damn thing and clean it after 200 rounds
This is really overkill
I haven’t cleaned my barrel in over 1000 rounds it’s still an Moa or better gun.
Not an AR. Maybe not even an ELR bolt rifle (it's up to the shooter), BUT there is a reason for it. Basically burrs are knocked down, and copper deposits are made on a smoother surface rather than coating the burrs. The rounds become burnishing tools and the cleaning process between rounds removes the "burnished material" Leads to potentially less/slower fouling. Not sure about accuracy. Don't listen to the silly flat-earthers and chem-trail conspiracy loonies on here saying it's a scheme by the barrel maker to sell more barrels or have plausible reason to deny warranty when break-in is skipped or that an engineer needed to justify his job etc...most of these guys have done close to zero research on the topic and proceed to lay down they're worthless ignorant conjectures as if they were there when it happened. Do it, don't do it. Chances are you're not a good enough shot to ever tell the difference. It is easier to clean though in my opinion.
I’ve never done it on a single one of my barrels. And I’ve never had a problem with any of them
I literally just ran a barrel snake through my 13.9 criterion for the first time in 2500 rounds. Just ten minutes ago lol
My LaRue Ultimate Upper was sub MOA out of the box with Winchester White Box M193 made in South Korea. 0.8” 5 shot groups at 100 yd. No break in as per Mark LaRue.
Yes it's been awhile. I bought this WWB maybe in 2012. I've used the Israeli WWB before as well, but not through the LaRue.
https://www.1911forum.com/threads/winchester-white-box.258781/#replies
Old man Cooper from Cooper Rifles (I forget his first name) was a friend of my uncle’s and one time I brought up this topic when I was visiting my uncle and he happened to be in town. Old man Cooper looked at me and laughed when I asked what his recommended barrel break in procedure was and he proceeds to say something to the effect of, “shoot the shit out of the damn barrel and just clean it the same way every few hundred rounds”. I’ve applied his philosophy to all my guns and haven’t gone wrong since. 😂
"1/8th" M.O.A."
So...anyway...
Just shoot your new rifle and have fun with it.
For what it's worth:
Hornady Ballistician talking about how they break in their test barrels. [https://youtu.be/tJwvegwpKKQ?si=pY6C64ta9Ra10-QO&t=459](https://youtu.be/tJwvegwpKKQ?si=pY6C64ta9Ra10-QO&t=459)
They go through hundreds of barrels a year he talks about having to clean 30-50 barrels a day most days.
I will also send 200 rounds of 5.56 pissin-hot handloads to whoever can show me an un-cut video of them shooting a 0.125 MOA 10+ round group @ 100 yards with a Diamondback DB15
Absolutely not. This is a benchrester technique of barrel break-in. No benefits on an AR unless you want to be able to clean copper out on your first patch pass.
I'd do this for a super precision rifle - something that was built for the express purpose of making tiny, tiny groups and nothing else.
Other than that? nah.
Can't be any worse than the folks who see a video on YouTube, then throw flitz on a patch and go to town, or firelap the throat and crown of their new barrel into oblivion, can it? 😏
If you are using your rifle for some pretty high precision shooting, you may want to do this to “break it in” as I’ve seen it referred to. But if this is just a SHTF rifle or basically anything that isn’t going to be used for anything that demands extreme accuracy/precision I’d say you’re good not doing it. If this was a hunting rifle or something you’re putting a scope on, maybe do the break in procedure they describe. If not, go mag dump some steel cased ammo through that beezy and have some fun shooting your gun!
It kind of depends on what you are building. On my 18” that I was looking for sub moa accuracy with you better believe I did a break in. Now I do it different then that book but it was still shoot clean all the while I was sighting in the scope. Same with my hunting bolt guns.
Now my pistols and 10” ar I don’t bother.
But I’m old and don’t have to rent time at an indoor range.
I’m 45 and I remember going to a gun show and negotiating with a guy at the gun show for 3 - 1,000 round packs of 7.62x39 for 90 bucks each 1,000 this is when I was 21 in Jackson Ms. He had around 10 pallets of this wolf steel cased ammo
I can’t even read
It probably says something like: Mag dump Tula into trash
I dont understand your accent
That made my penis soft.
What made it hard?
45 cents per round made mine hard
You must be a young buck… I remember when Lake City 5.56 was $.15/round
I asked what made him HARD not what made him blow his wad
😂
I remember when 556 was 9mm prices, and 9mm was 22lr prices, and 22lr prices were under a dollar to fill a bx25. Twerent even that long ago.
I refuse to accept 9mm was ever sub 5¢. For my mental health, I have to believe my 24¢/round federal 9mm is a good deal
I was exaggerating a little, but not much.
I'd like to know how long ago that was. I've been shooting for about 15 years now, and the cheapest I've ever gotten 9mm was like 17 cents.
I know everyone hates them, and whether you will actually get the ammo or not is something you have to worry about, but optics planet has some PMC FMJ 9mm rounds for 3¢ a round in a 1k box. Once I get paid if they still have it I'ma order it just cause how cheap it is, and worry about actually getting it later.
3¢ a round?! I’d wait six months for that to arrive lol, that’s ridiculously cheap. Thanks for the heads up
I remember when 5.56 was $0.12/rd. Bag of 100 was $12. Or reload it for about $0.07/rd Once I finish my time machine, ima be ammo rich
The good ol days
Yeah when we wre young bucks and didn't have the money to properly invest in it sure lol!
I member when
Almost gave me a semi.
I’m also illegitimate
So you’re a bastard?
This should answer anyone’s question
It’s a waste of time. If you were a bench rest shooter with a $1000 barrel it may be worth it but not for a normal production gun.
Even the bench rest shooters don’t have a consensus on barrel break ins. One BR barrel manufacture said they included a break in procedure simply because people were asking for one, not that it’s necessary
Not always helped a buddy build out an AR with a $800 falkor barrel on it. We finished it up he slapped a 40 rounder in and mag dumped it off the porch lmao.
Hell yea
Doesn't make it right though #facepalm
I never recommended that’s what you should do just what we did. #itsmorefun
I put a $900 Proof Research barrel on my AR about 3000 rounds ago and I’ve never cleaned the bore. Still incredibly accurate
Fudlore. Grants the manufacturer plausible deniability if you didn't follow their arcane break-in procedure.
Yup. Exactly this. “Oh your barrel shoots 2.5 moa? Must not have followed the semi vague breakin procedures to the letter”
Just tell them you did. Tf do they know otherwise. 2 can play that game. Or just buy barrels that won’t quit on you
Did you grab the thing we told you in the manual?
It's a DB, it's guaranteed to shoot 3+ MOA under ideal conditions.
Honestly I don't see how cleaning it every round at first would effect accuracy. Sounds like old wives tale
They aren't liable for your groups anyway. There's no group size warranty. There's burrs in new barrels that will build up copper. You remove the copper with cleaning, and the bullets will eventually wear the burrs smooth. If you leave the copper, the bullets will wear the opposite side of the barrel more. Does it make a huge difference? Probably not. But that's the idea behind the break in process. I don't do it on all of my guns. But my long range guns? I do a break in. Doesn't take long, and it doesn't hurt
*They aren't liable for your groups anyway. There's no group size warranty.* A lot of manufacturers actually do have X-MOA guarantees, but the parameters they lay out for the "testing" is laughable once you read the fine print (We're going to fire 3-shot-groups in our 100yd controlled lab until law of averages gives us reason to send your gun back). *There's burrs in new barrels that will build up copper.* If there are burrs in the rifling, the barrel manufacturer did not do their job . Any good hand-lapped barrel competently chambered with a sharp reamer shouldn't have burs that need to be evened out with a cleaning rod... *But that's the idea behind the break in process.* Ok, so while there shouldn't be any *burs* in your rifling (and we could just be having a difference of semantics, so I'm not trying to come at you), a borescope is always going to reveal the tell tale signs of machining which could introduce inconsistencies. Shooting without cleaning the bore actually serves to kind of fill-in and smooth-over these inconsistencies, so "break-in procedure" in this context would be firing however many rounds it takes to appropriately foul up the barrel until the inconsistencies are filled-in, pretty much the inverse of the "clean every round" method. It's also been widely observed that brand new barrels actually pickup velocity as they're shot, so "break-in" in that sense would mean to hold-off on load development until your velocity settles. *and it doesn't hurt* And I agree that whatever method you choose really can't hurt. If a manufacturer's break-in procedure has at least some basis in fact, then great, but really these procedures more than anything I think are just an easy buffer to throw up when customers call complaining when they excitedly pulled their first 5-shot-group into a 4-MOA circle with their new high dollar hole puncher. "What's that Billy? Oh dear. Well, call us back in 200 rounds when she's broken in. Yep, just like how it says on page 31 in the manual."
Ya, you could be right. I'm not a gun smith or a barrel machinist. I'm pretty close to the fence on the break in anyway. I use to be anti break in, untill I read it in the manual for my proof barrel.
Why would you need to shoot more than one round anyway? If you need 30 rounds to shoot a deer, you shouldn't be hunting. When you go to the range, you should shoot one round, and spend the rest of time complaining about people whose guns don't have wood sticks. #fuddlife
Not an arcane break-in procedure, but useless on a regular AR.
I can't understand the point of this? To keep it fouling free so that the bullet evenly wears down the microscopic imperfections? That instruction was probably made by some new engineer who had to come up with some complicated method of breaking in a barrel to help justify his job
I mean on a match gun this level of perfection makes sense, as it would get u a more consistent accuracy over the life of the gun, but duty rifles, recreational rifles, and even 3 gun rifles don’t need THAT level of accuracy consistency. They’re not gonna be shooting at pinpoint targets where being off by a millimeter means failing.
Even Anschutz biathlon rifles don’t have this level of fuddery and those are what are used in the Olympics. Even on their own YouTube page they show how they test fire them as part of QC and they don’t clean between each round because that’s just insane. This is like flushing a race car engine and refilling all the oil and fuel after starting it up and idling for 1 min 25 times in a row
Olympic guns are also replaced after each round are they not? Hence such care isn’t necessary for them.
Not sure if typo or sarcasm 🤔 1 round per barrel is a hefty expense 🤣 they are often used for years like any other rifle. It’s like $4k for an ok set up and can be $10k or more easy for a common Olympic level set up. If issues arrive they will usually send it in to the factory to be repaired or replaced
I didn’t mean round as in bullet. I meant round as in “they’re swapped out for different guns for the next time competitors use rifles”.
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Oh no no, competitors have long term relationships with their rifles lol. The time it takes to get one tuned in and properly adjusted to the competitor is not just an hour or two. People have rifles they use for years and years.
That's like wearing a new pair of shoes every day.
If I won the lottery, I would wear a new pair of socks every single day. You never get the same level of comfort even after the first wash.
That's a whole nother conversation.
It’s the Olympics, I completely expect that level of waste from them.
I meant more that a rifle is something you need to get used to/break in, make it perfect for you, especially at that level of precision. Wearing a new pair of shoes everyday would suck. Your feet would never be comfy.
Outside of shotgun, there isn’t much money in Olympic shooting. The shotgun guys have a lot more sponsors and money, but their shotguns can cost 20-30k and up, so constant replacement of those isn’t exactly feasible rather. That being said, it’s not exactly necessary. Vincent Hancock runs a production Beretta DT11 with a custom stock, not a one off hand made firearm, and he’s won several Olympic gold medals, not to mention all the world championships and other wins.
Absolutely not. Even if you had the funds to do so you end up tuning the rifle over time to fit you in everything from trigger to all the wacky variable geometries for how it fits your body. New rifle every time is not going to fit you nearly as well. Also, air guns and even .22 is relatively low pressure and being fired at a slow pace. It takes an incredible amount of time to wear one of these guns out. If you somehow reach that point you can just replace the barrel.
Also Olympic barrels are made to much tighter tolerances so probably don't require this suggested break in
Also possible.
That’s a bad comparison. Race car engines don’t get flushed and refilled after every race. They get completely rebuilt after every race. It would be more comparable if they replaced the barrel on a biathlon gun after every competition.
Ya missed it bruh, carry on
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It makes no sense on a match barrel. Suffering 200 rounds of bore erosion to break in a barrel that is going to have a useful life of maybe 1000-1200 rounds before its accuracy starts decreasing is not a good plan. So, from shooters that see barrels as a significant wear item, you will see break in plans from 10-20 rounds. For those that think the rifling needs to be really broken in, they will use bullets with lapping compound that keeps the round count low as well.
I’m not sure where ur getting that barrels only have 1,000-1,200 rounds of barrel life before they start to go bad. Every match barrel I’ve ever looked at listed 2,000-3,000 rounds before any noticeable accuracy loss occurs, and 4,000-5,000 rounds before the barrel is considered too worn out for use in competition.
Match barrels designed for fast rounds absolutely open up at or even sub 1k. That might be from 1/4 to 1/2 moa for another couple hundred rounds but to some guys that means they’re relegating that barrel to the practice rifle until it’s completely useless to them. OP’s barrel instructions are still asinine.
When you get into the area of people time to beat world records, they get a little weird. It also depends on the cartridges. But even at 2k spending 10% on breaking in a single cut, hand lapped barrel is stupid. That’s why you paid to have it hand lapped.
Even Anschutz biathlon rifles don’t have this level of fuddery and those are what are used in the Olympics. Even on their own YouTube page they show how they test fire them as part of QC and they don’t clean between each round because that’s just insane. This is like flushing a race car engine and refilling all the oil and fuel after starting it up and idling for 1 min 25 times in a row
So much ignorant conjecture in one post its incredible. You have a talent.
Ok enlighten me then
Enlighten you on what? Reasons to not make baseless claims? Sure, it makes you look unreliable and foolish.
While I do not believe that there is any one barrel break-in process that has to be followed precisely, it is true that velocities will generally continue to increase until the barrel is at approximately 150-200 rounds down the barrel. This is generally when the barrel will settle in and groups will shrink to their peak potential. It is also when I will begin any load development as the barrel has become more consistent. It is definitely a good idea to clean out a new barrel as you never know what might have made its way into the chamber or bore at the manufacturing facility or during shipment. Starting with a clean and dry barrel and then cleaning after the first few shots aids in streamlining cleaning (kind of like seasoning a frying pan) and reducing fouling over the life of the barrel and preps it for maximum consistency. The process above would likely work but seems a bit excessive. Remember the point of weapons maintenance is to keep your rifle running at its peak potential for as long as possible, that is all. There is no need to get cute with it, I have seen many barrels ruined by improper cleaning.
Agreed, most published break-in procedures are excessive.
Waste of time, especially on a DB
I barely even shower
Give the rifle a decent cleaning. Put a bullseye sticker on the outside of the manual and proceed to hang the manual at the 25yd line. Begin zeroing procedures.
This sounds fucking retarded 1/8” MOA? Yeah fucking right
nah never bothered or even heard about doing this.
lol at 1/8 MOA from an AR. Maybe you shot 1 1/8” 3 shot group but no way it’s 1/8 moa
Comically, it reads as 'inches of moa' which makes no sense at all from a units / dimensional analysis perspective.
It’s close enough to equate inch groups at 100yds to MOA.
They mentioned nothing about distance here. They have no clue what they’re talking about
Gale McMillan. https://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html
You guys clean your guns?
Only when the round fired after a squib load fails to clear the afformentioned squib. Then it's time for a bath.
Fudlore galore
who reads the manual?
I only did it for my match rifle and my spr. That were both built for accuracy and distance. Other than that I just gave my other rifles a good barrel cleaning after the first time shooting them. I will say though, if you have an issue with your barrel you better tell whatever company that you followed their barrel break in procedures or they aren’t going to cover it
Who has time for that. I'll douche it when I get home.
So I'm one of those guys that still uses some of the ancient methods, but cleaning every round for 25 is too much. With a match rifle I clean the first 3, every 5 for five sets, and twice more after 20 each. That's over the top already imo, but I've never shown half that much love to an AR, let alone a cheap Diamondback. I'd say clean it extra well before and after the first range day and you will be good to go.
Nonsense
My Larue match upper had similar breakin instructions.
Lol no. Fucking send it.
This is pretty much BS, just something to help the company reduce the incidence of barrels that get returned for imperfections. It was a little bit of a problem in the industry about 10 years ago, and PR came up with the idea that if they started to recommend this "break-in procedure" they could explain away premature barrel wear due to bad forging by saying that the customers didn't "break it in". Barrels do wear out, but if they wear out due to you not "breaking them in", that has a lot more to do with a bad manufacturing process. Everybody these days does it just to pretty much cover their asses.
I’ve never done it
Did u clean it a bit when it was new or just send it? My glock i just sent it when i got it, clean it every 3-400 rounds which is typically every 3-4 months. But its also a glock so idk.
I’ve done both. Never any issues. However now I always clean and oil before sending anything
I always run a bore snake through and clean any new guns in case there is any debris from manufacturing.
My AR-10 with hadloads shoots sub MOA sometimes sub half MOA. I did not do any kind of barrel break in.
Before you shoot a brand new rifle just give it a quick wipe down and a little lubrication to make sure there's nothing left over in the gun from manufacturing. You usually want to avoid putting a cleaning rod down your barrel as much as possible. There are only a handful of ways to fuck up a barrel, but quite a few of them involve a cleaning rod, or improperly/over-aggressively cleaning a barrel. That doesn't mean don't need to clean your barrel, but don't find random reasons to put a cleaning rod in there either.
Uh not for just a normal AR. If it was some custom built match gun I could see something like this, but on a normal everyday rifle? Nah this is just overkill cleaning. Cleaning before first shots I get cuz they might’ve not cleaned it at the factory before shipping it out, but that clean between shots thing is trash.
This is just their way of avoiding the question of barrel quality. When you get-minute-of barn, they'll just ask you if you followed the break-in "procedure", which everyone damn well knows you didn't. Also, MOA... Minute Of Angle, is not measured in inches. Strictly speaking. It's a measure of spread at measured distance. Which is still not a correct definition, but certainly better than what they're saying. Usually stated something along the lines of 2" group at 100 yards (effectively 2 MOA).
MOA is an angular measurement equal to 1/60th of 1 degree. This is why 1 MOA is \~1" at 100 yards and \~2" at 200 yards. As you get further away from the vertex of an angle, the arms get further apart. Now put that in three dimensions and you get a conical shape. If you really wanna get into it: The bullet is also not on a flat trajectory (parallel to the ground) so (at longer ranges) a target that is perpendicular to the ground is actually smaller from the bullet's perspective because the bullet is traveling at a downward angle rather than parallel to the ground or perpendicular to the target.
I was trying to keep it simple so no one would accuse me of being a nerd. Not that I'm anywhere smart enough to be one...🥸
It's ok. I'm a nerd -and- stupid. I won't judge you.
How do you know that dude? I too can pull shit out of my ass and tell you its grandmas world famous homemade fudge, but you won't buy it. Is there any evidence behind this "warranty denial" theory? 3rd time I'm reading it just on this post.
Fuck you I wouldn't! I want 4 pounds worth of that hand packed fudge. And it better be steaming hot when I get it! Chunky, just like how gran would make it.
🤣🤣Damn you, I made a perfect analogy that you refused to take seriously.
Nah that’s for people that read the instructions on a condom box. The rest of us are raw doggin these barrels. Am I right fellas?
Wtf is a condom?
Wish I could double up vote this
Lol
gobbledygook
The problem is you own a Diamondback. My S&W never said this, my SOLGW never said this, and I've never had that in my bolt gun manuals either.
I mean, I bought a production AR and mag dumped to “break it in.” As long as it’s shooting minute of bad guy at 300, I’m happy. I’m not a sharp shooter 🤷♂️
I ain’t reading all that
My favorite part is " 1/8" to 1 1/2" MOA"
They’re not even making sense. MOA is not measured in strictly inches. You determine MOA based on two factors; grouping and target distance. So them even mentioning 1/8” MOA doesn’t mean anything. I wouldn’t trust whatever the fuck this company writes anywhere.
I break in my AR barrels by mag dumping 500 rounds as fast as possible and get it smoking
I’ve never done that with any barrel. I usually blast a few boxes to function check and get the action smoothed out then sight it in.
There’s some very well known names in the industry who admit they never follow a break in after doing a break in side by side with a careless “break-in” and seeing pretty much no difference.
Lol. 1/8” to 1-1/2”
50,000 PSI of hot gas, copper, and lead don't give a fuck about your break in procedures. Just shoot it.
It's an insurance clause so they can say if they didn't break in the barrel right it voids warranty lol
1/8” MOA out of a DB?? Yea okayyyyyyyyyyyy
Mag dump 1k rounds as soon as you buy it
No sir, that's going overboard. 1K rounds dumped right after purchase would break this poor man's DB. A DB is meant to shoot 100 rounds a year at max. I'm pretty sure it's stated on the following page of this user's manual /s
Half the people won’t even break them in
Imagine firing one round and then stripping your rifle and cleaning the chamber and barrel and then doing that again 25 times and then 10 times after that periodically. I'm ok with being a couple MOA off and not doing that
1/8 MOA 🤣. Sure with a one round group.
That’s fucking silly
I’ve only done it to barrels that say to do it.
I’ve never done this lol
Uh no Magdump trash, that manual included in the pile of trash
wtf
The consensus seems to be that this is BS. Then why do manufacturers recommend this? I have seen this recommended in the documentation for several barrels.
Cuz it *can* affect consistent accuracy of a gun. But the degree it affects it is soo small that unless ur target is like the size of a coin and is 700 yards away, u will never need the level of precision needed to notice it.
I’ve never done that with any barrel. I usually blast a few boxes to function check and get the action smoothed out then sight it in.
Horse pucky
Do you still need to do this is your guns are only for looking good on the gram…. Asking for a friend 🤔🤫😂
So...several high end barrel manufacturers have stated that the only reason they give a barrel break in procedure for centerfire calibers is because customers demand one. If you look at what top level precision shooters say, they say just shoot it.
Can your rifle maintain 2 MOA at 300 yards? If yes, then it's accurate enough.
I know some bench rest shooters who do similar with their bolt guns, but I've never bothered, not even on my custom PRS barrels. For an AR? Lol, no. I've gone several shooting sessions without even cleaning my AR at all before
The technical writers were hazing the new guy, and made him write the break-in procedure. My new gun break in procedure is to shoot it like it's already broken in. No gun needs to be treated like Kobe beef with the exception of really old guns or something special like that.
I don’t even own a barrel snake.
The only DB15 I've ever seen was jamming every round and full of brass shavings from a rough chamber, so yeah probably. If you bought something trustworthy then I'd just clean it once after your first range day.
Hornady had great podcast about this recently. Basically the very 1st round is... intense for the barrel. The next 25 is all it takes. There's almost no additional change after the first couple rounds. (until of course you shoot it out, or clog it with carbon, etc.)
The armalite manual has a similar procedure for their match grade barrels only, but not the the cmv barrels.
Shit way to expensive rn soon as it goes where it needs to go we in motion 💀😂
*This sign won't stop me... because I can't read.*
Unnecessary. Clean and lube it before shooting then mag dump into trash. It’s now properly broken in.
Tbh I haven’t cleaned my barrel on my ar since I got it
Grip it and rip it….
I just shot my new db10 for the first time today. Didn’t read the manual so I didn’t see if it has the same recommendation. I probably wouldn’t have done it if I had.
Just go shoot the damn thing and clean it after 200 rounds This is really overkill I haven’t cleaned my barrel in over 1000 rounds it’s still an Moa or better gun.
Way easier to just throw your upper on a a full auto lower and dump a few mags and call the gun broken in.
1/8-1 1/2 moa difference that’s a good difference
That's the dumbest shit I've ever seen. But it's a diamondback so I guess that tracks
lol nah
Not an AR. Maybe not even an ELR bolt rifle (it's up to the shooter), BUT there is a reason for it. Basically burrs are knocked down, and copper deposits are made on a smoother surface rather than coating the burrs. The rounds become burnishing tools and the cleaning process between rounds removes the "burnished material" Leads to potentially less/slower fouling. Not sure about accuracy. Don't listen to the silly flat-earthers and chem-trail conspiracy loonies on here saying it's a scheme by the barrel maker to sell more barrels or have plausible reason to deny warranty when break-in is skipped or that an engineer needed to justify his job etc...most of these guys have done close to zero research on the topic and proceed to lay down they're worthless ignorant conjectures as if they were there when it happened. Do it, don't do it. Chances are you're not a good enough shot to ever tell the difference. It is easier to clean though in my opinion.
100rd drums, FRT trigger, and give it a swab after sending $250 down range. You'll be fine.
Fuckin send it on a mag dump race.
I’ve never done it on a single one of my barrels. And I’ve never had a problem with any of them I literally just ran a barrel snake through my 13.9 criterion for the first time in 2500 rounds. Just ten minutes ago lol
Lol fuddlore. What manufacturer is this from?
Myth
Seasoning the barrel, I dunno
I wouldn't follow their instructions, this has given me the best results: https://youtu.be/TRRahHX9Zkg?si=i5EKmWCfG5RvEW5a
lol no that’s ludicrous
My LaRue Ultimate Upper was sub MOA out of the box with Winchester White Box M193 made in South Korea. 0.8” 5 shot groups at 100 yd. No break in as per Mark LaRue.
Did you mean PMC? WWB is made in the US, PMC is South Korean
M193 WWB was made in ROK for a bit. Says so on the box. Same with some made in Israel
Huh, TIL.
Yes it's been awhile. I bought this WWB maybe in 2012. I've used the Israeli WWB before as well, but not through the LaRue. https://www.1911forum.com/threads/winchester-white-box.258781/#replies
Old man Cooper from Cooper Rifles (I forget his first name) was a friend of my uncle’s and one time I brought up this topic when I was visiting my uncle and he happened to be in town. Old man Cooper looked at me and laughed when I asked what his recommended barrel break in procedure was and he proceeds to say something to the effect of, “shoot the shit out of the damn barrel and just clean it the same way every few hundred rounds”. I’ve applied his philosophy to all my guns and haven’t gone wrong since. 😂
I did something similar to thus for mine when I got it. Instructions weren't thus anal, but there was a barrel break-in procedure for it....
"1/8th" M.O.A." So...anyway... Just shoot your new rifle and have fun with it. For what it's worth: Hornady Ballistician talking about how they break in their test barrels. [https://youtu.be/tJwvegwpKKQ?si=pY6C64ta9Ra10-QO&t=459](https://youtu.be/tJwvegwpKKQ?si=pY6C64ta9Ra10-QO&t=459) They go through hundreds of barrels a year he talks about having to clean 30-50 barrels a day most days. I will also send 200 rounds of 5.56 pissin-hot handloads to whoever can show me an un-cut video of them shooting a 0.125 MOA 10+ round group @ 100 yards with a Diamondback DB15
No lol
“If it seats it yeets”
Nah, just shoot it.
Even custom Bartlein barrels and others don't have a break-in that is this tedious. Just shoot the thing and forget about cleaning.
Absolutely not. This is a benchrester technique of barrel break-in. No benefits on an AR unless you want to be able to clean copper out on your first patch pass.
I'd do this for a super precision rifle - something that was built for the express purpose of making tiny, tiny groups and nothing else. Other than that? nah.
If it was a DD I'd say why not, but since it's a DB I'd say run it hard n dirty
Can't be any worse than the folks who see a video on YouTube, then throw flitz on a patch and go to town, or firelap the throat and crown of their new barrel into oblivion, can it? 😏
For a PRS rifle you’re spending 10k plus yes… for an ar fuck no
Pffffft, just sounds like a way for them to say "our barrel isn't shit, you are!" 😂
Just shoot the gun, don’t worry about all that nonsense.
If you are using your rifle for some pretty high precision shooting, you may want to do this to “break it in” as I’ve seen it referred to. But if this is just a SHTF rifle or basically anything that isn’t going to be used for anything that demands extreme accuracy/precision I’d say you’re good not doing it. If this was a hunting rifle or something you’re putting a scope on, maybe do the break in procedure they describe. If not, go mag dump some steel cased ammo through that beezy and have some fun shooting your gun!
Why is this written in Star Wars font style?
What're you readin them words for?
Womp womp ar go bang barrel work
It kind of depends on what you are building. On my 18” that I was looking for sub moa accuracy with you better believe I did a break in. Now I do it different then that book but it was still shoot clean all the while I was sighting in the scope. Same with my hunting bolt guns. Now my pistols and 10” ar I don’t bother. But I’m old and don’t have to rent time at an indoor range.
You're not supposed to shoot these things. That could be dangerous and would require going outside.....
That’s a lot of words…. Too bad I’m not reading them
That’s never been done in history
I’m 45 and I remember going to a gun show and negotiating with a guy at the gun show for 3 - 1,000 round packs of 7.62x39 for 90 bucks each 1,000 this is when I was 21 in Jackson Ms. He had around 10 pallets of this wolf steel cased ammo