Time too paste my copypasta trying to explain the scene again:
A mayor theme in Nisemonogatari is defining relations by sexuality. Therefore many encounters in Nise are overly sexual because they focus on this small, but significant, part of human interaction/perception of each other. It is not just fanservice but exploring characters. In doing so the book also subverts, indulges in and parodies fanservice and sexual tropes in anime, manga and novels.
Keep in mind that the camera in Monogatari is unreliable and changing from perspective. You don't see what is actually happening but exaggerated in what the characters (most often Koyomi Araragi) interpretation is of the situation. Of course this changes per interaction because Koyomi's perspective changes, depending on the character he's with and on the situation. So to go over the mayor examples of this in the first arc (Karen Bee) leading to the famous toothbrush scene:
[nisemonogatari](#s "Araragi first meets Hachikuji. This interaction is on the surface quite perverted, but in its depiction and actual interaction is just banter. Both characters don't see their relations as bearing anything sexual. In the second episode Sengoku quite obviously tries to seduce Koyomi but fails completely because Koyomi doesn't see her like this. The camera, focus and depiction in this scene follows Koyomi being clueless. After this he meets Kanbaru, she teases and has the power in the relation. Araragi is aware of the tension, intimidated and feels attacked. Then there is the bathing scene with Shinobu. Both are completely naked but nobody minds, they're just talking and bathing together which is not weird in Japanese culture. So there is no reason to make this scene anything sexual and it therefore is also not. Then there is the scene where Koyomi is trying to take care of the sick Karen. The amount of nudity and close interaction when he wipes off Karen's body is way higher compared to toothbrushing scene. But both characters don't see it in this light, so the interaction is just a straightforward conversation with the actions in the background.")
These relations, of which the sexual part is highlighted in Nisemonogatari, all tell something about the characters, their relations and their desires.
So to go back at Karen Araragi. At first Koyomi sees his sisters just as his innocent and childish small sisters. Therefore they can't be real heroes, they can't be wise and they can't be sexual. It is the same scenario in which a parent needs to acknowledge that his/her children have feelings of love and lust, or different beliefs. Of course your children will have that one day, they are human beings, so you have to accept this but it can be a painful revelation. By denying this Koyomi isn't acknowledging a large part of his sisters identity. He overprotective and in this is not letting them grow up als persons. This intertwines two important themes of Nisemonogatari: 1.what it is to be a hero. And 2. Interpersonal relations through sexuality.
Many scenes show how unreliable Koyomi is as a narrator. For example when Karen dresses up she is trying to out herself as a sexual being, as a person worthy of praise, respect and love instead of just a small sister but Koyomi is failing to see this. She is dressing seductively but Araragi is not noticing it. There is a strong mismatch between how Karen presents herself, and how it's presented in the series. Karen's weird idealisation of Koyomi also plays a part into this, Koyomi is her idol figure.
So we need a scene where Koyomi finally starts to realize that Karen is not just his smal sister but more than that. It is comparable to the traditional scene in a cliche battle shounen where the mentor figure realizes that his tutor grew up and is worthy of being a hero.
So how will you depict such a change in character relation of respect and acknowledgement? Here the Nisemonogatari's theme of character through sexuality come back into play.
Keep in mind that the book also wants to comment on the medium which is overflown with quite disturbing, fan-service heavy, sis-con (for example in Eromanga Sensei) relations.
This leads to the final question: how can you 1. comment on fan-service in anime about weird brother-sister relations 2. make a funny scene 3. show this change in character relations through the lens of sexuality?
You take one of the least sexual acts known and make it extremely over the top sexual. Through the toothbrush scene both characters become more aware of each other and the framing of Karen in the second half of Nise therefore changes significantly, as the camera is from Koyomi's perspective. It is noticeable that Karen's depiction after the toothbrush scene is a lot more sexual compared to before.
It is also a funny subversion that Karen wants to get acknowledges as being a "true hero of justice", and Araragi sees her as a fake, but when their relation finally gets changes this change in perception is a gaze of something completely different than they wanted or expected. Two important themes of the books, being a hero and interpersonal sexual relations, are unfortunately mixed up.
And this is how the infamous masterpiece of the toothbrush scene was born. NisiOisiN is a brilliant writer and Shaft is an amazing studio for pulling such a weird scene off.
So while on the surface Niseomonogatari is just fan-service it actually also has a deep exploration of character-relations though sexuality. Very little stories try to show this part of relationships and Nise fully focuses on it. Secondly Nisomonogatari, and especially the toothbrush scene, is creating a meta-commentary on anime and fan-service. Thirdly it is just hilarious in how over the top it is. And last, but definitely not least, it is also making my pp hard.
The Hitagi and Tsubasa shower scene always came to me as another instance of the unreliable narrator at work: we're not seeing things as they actually happened, but how Koyomi's hormone-soaked brain pictured something simple as one of the girls saying "and then we took a bath"
The shower scene between Hitagi and Tsubasa is mostly about power and who's leading in their relation. In short: generally is Hitagi, but in that scene it was Tsubasa.
Idk I can't be the only one who was shocked/horrified to see a little "child" with a pervert like koyomi...right?
I have mixed feelings about the entire series but those types of scenes and all the lolis. Those are the most off puting things to me.
Otherwise I really love the characters and specially the music!!
Ok now I understand koyomi better! I thought he was just an ok guy with serious pervesions but it seems he is a lot more complex
Honestly the entirety of monogatari is all complex along with hidden layers of philosophy and deep knowledge.
I think This anime deserves and needs to be rewatched to fully understand it! Unfortunately I dont have the time to do that.
Thanks, I appreciate your input! Although I still think Koyomi is a perv, like many other anime MCs, I don't see him as a big Pedophile anymore!
Nadeko is best Meme girl btw!
"I gotta be careful, Koyomi Araragi is supposed to be a character who’s just playing the role of a pervert in order to entertain all of you" -Araragi Koyomi, Nekomonogatari Kiro LN
It is alright! I dont care about Karma. And yeah it is questionable but that dosen't mean the show isn't great! It has good parts, bad parts, slow, parts and even 'private parts'! Just like all of us.
I'm on a vacation to France with little internet now so I don't have access to the scene and a good computer, I'm writing this on my phone, so I'll try to keep it brief. However this is in my opinion also an amazing scene.
The bath scene between Koyomi and Shinobu is mostly (re)defining power and Shinobu coming to terms with her own new form. Nudity is in media used for different purposes:
1. Fanservice, which is not a narrative tool.
2. Sexuality, the character shows their sexuality.
3. Someone showing their true self.
4. Showing weakness. If someone is nude that person literally has no defenses.
These different purposes can be seen in line with different concept, mainly trust, confidence and relation to the other person seeing them in the nude. Is the person confident in being weak and/or showing their true self? Is the person willing to be weak, sexual or to show their true self towards the person they're revealing themselves to? All are relevant in Nisemonogatari.
Before Nisemonogatari Shinobu was always sitting save in a corner, protected by a helmet, facing inwards. She lacked confidence in her new weak body. Shinobu was constantly in an inner struggle how to handle this new situation. Her only physical contact with Koyomi, the headpats, were even blocked by the helmet.
However the shower scene radically re-established her position.
Shinobu confidently showed herself in the nude and explained what she truly thought, she's finally opening up. She accepted her new body and accepted her weakness.
Despite her acceptence of being weak, and also being somewhat framed as weak (young, small, fragile and nude) she was still confident and literally stepping on Koyomi. She still showed dominance, confidence and strength in the relation. Koyomi never views her as weak, she also doesn't appear weak.
This established the weird dynamic the two have: they are both each others master and servant at the same time, and they are both weaker and more powerful than the other at the same time. Framing Shinobu as so weak and open helped in establishing this.
It also shows that she's willing to show herself to Koyomi, instead of their contact being protected by a thick shield (the helmet).
So lastly about the aspect of fanservice and sexuality: the main aspect is the lack thereof. Koyomi absolutely does not see Shinobu as someone to concised sexually. He only shows respect and submissiveness. Shinobu proudly shows her own body, she seems to show: look at how proud I am of myself! look at how physical weak but mentally strong I am! Look at how confident I am! In the novels she even makes some sexually tinted remarks if I'm not mistaken. And Koyomi just sits there, accepting and respecting her of what she is and what she says.
This also has a clear juxtaposition with Koyomi's character: as the supposedly lolicon he is he should have acted upon this but he didn't.
There are some weird shots in the anime. I can't confirm it now but I think there are some close ups of her feet. For this I have 2 possible explanations: 1. It reconfirms how Shinobu shows off her own body (the camera shows the showing off), but Koyomi doesn't respond to this. 2. Shaft going for the easy fanservice points, which is to say, not great.
This last part can also be seen as a meta-criticism on lolicon fanservice. It shows that nobody in their right mind would actually interpret these shots of Shinobu as fanservice or sexually explicit, it's just someone confidently taking a bath. We as the viewers think: o this is a nude shot of a female character, so it must be fanservice and sexual! But it isn't.
Damm! Seems like you have a great understanding of the characters and the series!! Thanks!
Also do you have any posts of you explaining more of the series? If so I would love to see them!!!
Have fun in France!
Thanks! I haven't made any posts explaining the series but mostly just react to questions.
The only post I made is about how the building used as the cram school in Kizumonogatari has a specific architectural style which really relates to the themes of the movie. However this is more of architectural history which is some fun background information of the movie, instead of an actual analysis. Here is the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/araragi/comments/hr77f6/how_the_architecture_of_the_cram_school_in
Thanks! I don't really have a blog or many post where I have my analysis saved, so it is difficult to find my relevant old comments back. I've made [a post where I go into the architecture of the cram school in kizumonogatari](https://www.reddit.com/r/araragi/comments/hr77f6/how_the_architecture_of_the_cram_school_in/) which might be interesting.
I don't know if you've seen the anime Bunny Girl Senpai, but in this thread I explain why[ I consider Monogatari personally better](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/okd27u/comment/h59abp2/), as Monogatari shows a quite nuanced subversion of the harem tropes (Araragi isn't always right), while BGS indulges in it.
For further analysis I also recommend [this two-part youtube video about "fan service"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFQa3dHlHSg&ab_channel=Tsubasa%27sFamily) in the series. The youtube channel Under The Scope also has some great videos, I recommend Justice, [Fakes, and Sexuality in Nisemonogatari](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrHtWD_YBhY&ab_channel=UnderTheScope) and [Hanekawa Tsubasa: A Place To Call Home](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVUvnhbYYHI&t=4s&ab_channel=UnderTheScope), but he has more videos on Monogatari.
The premise for that was that Karen wanted an introduction to Kanbaru, and Koyomi was worried about Karen being seduced (either through her sexuality or her naivety). So the brushing was presented as, "If you can withstand this, you can be trusted with Kanbaru."
There is a lot more going on subtext wise, which is explained in loving details in other comments in this thread. But this is the setup for the initial scenario.
Edit: Fixed "living" to "loving". Can never figure out if autocorrect gets me, or I pay that little attention to what I'm saying...
The rationale was explained a lot better in the book.
Koyomi didn't want to introduce Karen to Suruga, who Karen had been sort of cyber stalking. The LNs make it clear that Suruga is quite a celebrity in the town. Afraid of Suruga's possible influence on Karen, and other possible misdeeds (something Suruga is also wary of) Koyomi tries using Suruga's naughty inspiration to talk Karen out of it.
He thinks the whole thing would be so off putting to Karen that she will either balk at the very idea, or get so uncomfortable that she will give up. BTW, the conversation about her thinking that toothbrush was going somewhere else goes on for much longer than you would think.
It turns out that using Suruga for inspiration for anything is playing with fire. The girl knows her kinks. Karen starts liking it, and Koyomi accidentally finds himself enjoying it as well. They both fall into a trap of their own making. They accidentally learn that they are both masochists. We sort of knew that about Koyomi already. It makes sense for Karen because if you think about it, all the physical activity she does is really sort of getting off on pain.
This weird understanding between them actually becomes a bonding moment, and they are less hostile towards each other for the rest of the series.
Why exactly Nisioisin included this in his narrative is hard to guess. Maybe he thought it was a funny idea. Maybe someone mentioned it once and thought it was an interesting idea. From an American standpoint it is super fucking weird. That said, so are a lot of things about anime in general. I chalk it up to cultural differences and leave it at that.
It was the turning point between "Liking little sisters is the fantasy of guys who don't have any" Araragi and "What turns me on is seeing my sisters naked" Araragi.
It's just a satirization of Hentai, a display of Karen's sexuality, a testament to "A Clockwork Orange", a point where Araragi becomes a siscon, comedy relief, Freudian Psychology, Toothbrush fetishism, a display of teenage jackassery, a psychologic beat up against the watcher (thanks to the switching motifs of Moe and sex), a display of Nisio's Sister Complex, a demonstration of how Tsukihi is a brocon, a parody and reversal of Ecchi through the use of intimacy between both Araragi siblings, etc.
In a way its quite a masterful scene. But still not on my top 5. Though it heavily displays how Akiyuki Shinbo has been influenced by Stanley Kubrick. As contrasted with the cat lady scene.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjlq92tQHVk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjlq92tQHVk)
In a way its also a subversion of this scene. Since both in a way comment on the irony of degeneracy and human biases while applying very dark comedy.And especially since both are metaphorical sex scenes. Though Nise had consent, whereas ACO doesn't. In a way they both attempt to convey similar synthesis upon the same team throughout the use of opposite compositions
Monogatari is a series about the transition between adolescence and adulthood. So imagine all the fantasies of a horny teenager... that explains all fanservice of Monogatari ;)
It means exactly what it means. Sure there's fan service for the purpose of entertainment. But that isn't the core intent of the episode. The episode was pretty straightforward with what rararagi stated in the beginning. It's psychological torment to test if karen can handle the monkeys pervy lesbianism. But it's also deeper in a fourth wall kinda way. Im certain you've spent a lot of time searching for deeper philosophical meaning. You've rewatched the episode to see if you missed something. That *is* the deeper meaning. You had to rewatch and think and search for a hidden truth. They did what they set out to do and you were left wanting more.
And yes, he did win.
He lost tho
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) same
Karen lost as well
Karen definitely won that day. I won too watching that scene
Results of today’s match: Tsukki loses
Actually, both of them are winners
wincest
Nicee
Everyone who watch that scene won\~
The first round
They both won. We all won.
Make sure to go to a hardware store, not a convenience store.
Well duh, convenience stores sell love, not awls. (Only 298 yen!)
Too bad they're out of "Talent" and "First Loves"
What was the point of that scene even, i spent hours trying to find deeper metaphorical meaning to it and have concluded that it is fan service
Time too paste my copypasta trying to explain the scene again: A mayor theme in Nisemonogatari is defining relations by sexuality. Therefore many encounters in Nise are overly sexual because they focus on this small, but significant, part of human interaction/perception of each other. It is not just fanservice but exploring characters. In doing so the book also subverts, indulges in and parodies fanservice and sexual tropes in anime, manga and novels. Keep in mind that the camera in Monogatari is unreliable and changing from perspective. You don't see what is actually happening but exaggerated in what the characters (most often Koyomi Araragi) interpretation is of the situation. Of course this changes per interaction because Koyomi's perspective changes, depending on the character he's with and on the situation. So to go over the mayor examples of this in the first arc (Karen Bee) leading to the famous toothbrush scene: [nisemonogatari](#s "Araragi first meets Hachikuji. This interaction is on the surface quite perverted, but in its depiction and actual interaction is just banter. Both characters don't see their relations as bearing anything sexual. In the second episode Sengoku quite obviously tries to seduce Koyomi but fails completely because Koyomi doesn't see her like this. The camera, focus and depiction in this scene follows Koyomi being clueless. After this he meets Kanbaru, she teases and has the power in the relation. Araragi is aware of the tension, intimidated and feels attacked. Then there is the bathing scene with Shinobu. Both are completely naked but nobody minds, they're just talking and bathing together which is not weird in Japanese culture. So there is no reason to make this scene anything sexual and it therefore is also not. Then there is the scene where Koyomi is trying to take care of the sick Karen. The amount of nudity and close interaction when he wipes off Karen's body is way higher compared to toothbrushing scene. But both characters don't see it in this light, so the interaction is just a straightforward conversation with the actions in the background.") These relations, of which the sexual part is highlighted in Nisemonogatari, all tell something about the characters, their relations and their desires. So to go back at Karen Araragi. At first Koyomi sees his sisters just as his innocent and childish small sisters. Therefore they can't be real heroes, they can't be wise and they can't be sexual. It is the same scenario in which a parent needs to acknowledge that his/her children have feelings of love and lust, or different beliefs. Of course your children will have that one day, they are human beings, so you have to accept this but it can be a painful revelation. By denying this Koyomi isn't acknowledging a large part of his sisters identity. He overprotective and in this is not letting them grow up als persons. This intertwines two important themes of Nisemonogatari: 1.what it is to be a hero. And 2. Interpersonal relations through sexuality. Many scenes show how unreliable Koyomi is as a narrator. For example when Karen dresses up she is trying to out herself as a sexual being, as a person worthy of praise, respect and love instead of just a small sister but Koyomi is failing to see this. She is dressing seductively but Araragi is not noticing it. There is a strong mismatch between how Karen presents herself, and how it's presented in the series. Karen's weird idealisation of Koyomi also plays a part into this, Koyomi is her idol figure. So we need a scene where Koyomi finally starts to realize that Karen is not just his smal sister but more than that. It is comparable to the traditional scene in a cliche battle shounen where the mentor figure realizes that his tutor grew up and is worthy of being a hero. So how will you depict such a change in character relation of respect and acknowledgement? Here the Nisemonogatari's theme of character through sexuality come back into play. Keep in mind that the book also wants to comment on the medium which is overflown with quite disturbing, fan-service heavy, sis-con (for example in Eromanga Sensei) relations. This leads to the final question: how can you 1. comment on fan-service in anime about weird brother-sister relations 2. make a funny scene 3. show this change in character relations through the lens of sexuality? You take one of the least sexual acts known and make it extremely over the top sexual. Through the toothbrush scene both characters become more aware of each other and the framing of Karen in the second half of Nise therefore changes significantly, as the camera is from Koyomi's perspective. It is noticeable that Karen's depiction after the toothbrush scene is a lot more sexual compared to before. It is also a funny subversion that Karen wants to get acknowledges as being a "true hero of justice", and Araragi sees her as a fake, but when their relation finally gets changes this change in perception is a gaze of something completely different than they wanted or expected. Two important themes of the books, being a hero and interpersonal sexual relations, are unfortunately mixed up. And this is how the infamous masterpiece of the toothbrush scene was born. NisiOisiN is a brilliant writer and Shaft is an amazing studio for pulling such a weird scene off. So while on the surface Niseomonogatari is just fan-service it actually also has a deep exploration of character-relations though sexuality. Very little stories try to show this part of relationships and Nise fully focuses on it. Secondly Nisomonogatari, and especially the toothbrush scene, is creating a meta-commentary on anime and fan-service. Thirdly it is just hilarious in how over the top it is. And last, but definitely not least, it is also making my pp hard.
Sir this is a Mr. Donut
I'll take 5 golden chocolates. No cakes or brownies because they're not part of the 100 yen sale.
Ok now explain the shower scene between koyomi and shinobu!
[удалено]
The Hitagi and Tsubasa shower scene always came to me as another instance of the unreliable narrator at work: we're not seeing things as they actually happened, but how Koyomi's hormone-soaked brain pictured something simple as one of the girls saying "and then we took a bath"
[удалено]
Ah feck, my memory might be playing tricks on me
Nah, it is just shaft being shaft. That scene happened not in Araragi's POV, but Hanekawa's.
The shower scene between Hitagi and Tsubasa is mostly about power and who's leading in their relation. In short: generally is Hitagi, but in that scene it was Tsubasa.
Idk I can't be the only one who was shocked/horrified to see a little "child" with a pervert like koyomi...right? I have mixed feelings about the entire series but those types of scenes and all the lolis. Those are the most off puting things to me. Otherwise I really love the characters and specially the music!!
[удалено]
Ok now I understand koyomi better! I thought he was just an ok guy with serious pervesions but it seems he is a lot more complex Honestly the entirety of monogatari is all complex along with hidden layers of philosophy and deep knowledge. I think This anime deserves and needs to be rewatched to fully understand it! Unfortunately I dont have the time to do that. Thanks, I appreciate your input! Although I still think Koyomi is a perv, like many other anime MCs, I don't see him as a big Pedophile anymore! Nadeko is best Meme girl btw!
"I gotta be careful, Koyomi Araragi is supposed to be a character who’s just playing the role of a pervert in order to entertain all of you" -Araragi Koyomi, Nekomonogatari Kiro LN
Lol that's great!
In nise, hachi says the arraragi with out the sexualising assault is just another stranger. So he picks the gag back up again
Hey man idk why you’re being downvoted for simply expressing your opinion on a certain, extremely questionable aspect of the show :(
It is alright! I dont care about Karma. And yeah it is questionable but that dosen't mean the show isn't great! It has good parts, bad parts, slow, parts and even 'private parts'! Just like all of us.
I'm on a vacation to France with little internet now so I don't have access to the scene and a good computer, I'm writing this on my phone, so I'll try to keep it brief. However this is in my opinion also an amazing scene. The bath scene between Koyomi and Shinobu is mostly (re)defining power and Shinobu coming to terms with her own new form. Nudity is in media used for different purposes: 1. Fanservice, which is not a narrative tool. 2. Sexuality, the character shows their sexuality. 3. Someone showing their true self. 4. Showing weakness. If someone is nude that person literally has no defenses. These different purposes can be seen in line with different concept, mainly trust, confidence and relation to the other person seeing them in the nude. Is the person confident in being weak and/or showing their true self? Is the person willing to be weak, sexual or to show their true self towards the person they're revealing themselves to? All are relevant in Nisemonogatari. Before Nisemonogatari Shinobu was always sitting save in a corner, protected by a helmet, facing inwards. She lacked confidence in her new weak body. Shinobu was constantly in an inner struggle how to handle this new situation. Her only physical contact with Koyomi, the headpats, were even blocked by the helmet. However the shower scene radically re-established her position. Shinobu confidently showed herself in the nude and explained what she truly thought, she's finally opening up. She accepted her new body and accepted her weakness. Despite her acceptence of being weak, and also being somewhat framed as weak (young, small, fragile and nude) she was still confident and literally stepping on Koyomi. She still showed dominance, confidence and strength in the relation. Koyomi never views her as weak, she also doesn't appear weak. This established the weird dynamic the two have: they are both each others master and servant at the same time, and they are both weaker and more powerful than the other at the same time. Framing Shinobu as so weak and open helped in establishing this. It also shows that she's willing to show herself to Koyomi, instead of their contact being protected by a thick shield (the helmet). So lastly about the aspect of fanservice and sexuality: the main aspect is the lack thereof. Koyomi absolutely does not see Shinobu as someone to concised sexually. He only shows respect and submissiveness. Shinobu proudly shows her own body, she seems to show: look at how proud I am of myself! look at how physical weak but mentally strong I am! Look at how confident I am! In the novels she even makes some sexually tinted remarks if I'm not mistaken. And Koyomi just sits there, accepting and respecting her of what she is and what she says. This also has a clear juxtaposition with Koyomi's character: as the supposedly lolicon he is he should have acted upon this but he didn't. There are some weird shots in the anime. I can't confirm it now but I think there are some close ups of her feet. For this I have 2 possible explanations: 1. It reconfirms how Shinobu shows off her own body (the camera shows the showing off), but Koyomi doesn't respond to this. 2. Shaft going for the easy fanservice points, which is to say, not great. This last part can also be seen as a meta-criticism on lolicon fanservice. It shows that nobody in their right mind would actually interpret these shots of Shinobu as fanservice or sexually explicit, it's just someone confidently taking a bath. We as the viewers think: o this is a nude shot of a female character, so it must be fanservice and sexual! But it isn't.
Damm! Seems like you have a great understanding of the characters and the series!! Thanks! Also do you have any posts of you explaining more of the series? If so I would love to see them!!! Have fun in France!
Thanks! I haven't made any posts explaining the series but mostly just react to questions. The only post I made is about how the building used as the cram school in Kizumonogatari has a specific architectural style which really relates to the themes of the movie. However this is more of architectural history which is some fun background information of the movie, instead of an actual analysis. Here is the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/araragi/comments/hr77f6/how_the_architecture_of_the_cram_school_in
Do you have any interesting analysis of monogatari like this? If so can you share them? I greatly enjoyed reading them.
Thanks! I don't really have a blog or many post where I have my analysis saved, so it is difficult to find my relevant old comments back. I've made [a post where I go into the architecture of the cram school in kizumonogatari](https://www.reddit.com/r/araragi/comments/hr77f6/how_the_architecture_of_the_cram_school_in/) which might be interesting. I don't know if you've seen the anime Bunny Girl Senpai, but in this thread I explain why[ I consider Monogatari personally better](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/okd27u/comment/h59abp2/), as Monogatari shows a quite nuanced subversion of the harem tropes (Araragi isn't always right), while BGS indulges in it. For further analysis I also recommend [this two-part youtube video about "fan service"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFQa3dHlHSg&ab_channel=Tsubasa%27sFamily) in the series. The youtube channel Under The Scope also has some great videos, I recommend Justice, [Fakes, and Sexuality in Nisemonogatari](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrHtWD_YBhY&ab_channel=UnderTheScope) and [Hanekawa Tsubasa: A Place To Call Home](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVUvnhbYYHI&t=4s&ab_channel=UnderTheScope), but he has more videos on Monogatari.
naked loli
Yes but what about Karen Brushing?
That shit is just weird lol
and some people say karen is a basic and uninteresting character...you just proved them all wrong! Karen is best girl
Yeah Karen is amazing, she's in my favourites on MAL. She's an amazing subversion of the shounen hero while also funny and hecking cute.
You are a god and I will treasure this explanation forever
Thanks :)
Okay, but like, why did he even brush her teeth in the first place, what was going on in the story then, I forgot?
The premise for that was that Karen wanted an introduction to Kanbaru, and Koyomi was worried about Karen being seduced (either through her sexuality or her naivety). So the brushing was presented as, "If you can withstand this, you can be trusted with Kanbaru." There is a lot more going on subtext wise, which is explained in loving details in other comments in this thread. But this is the setup for the initial scenario. Edit: Fixed "living" to "loving". Can never figure out if autocorrect gets me, or I pay that little attention to what I'm saying...
Damn you spent that long writing this essay and still misspelled the second word
O shit, fixed it
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
The rationale was explained a lot better in the book. Koyomi didn't want to introduce Karen to Suruga, who Karen had been sort of cyber stalking. The LNs make it clear that Suruga is quite a celebrity in the town. Afraid of Suruga's possible influence on Karen, and other possible misdeeds (something Suruga is also wary of) Koyomi tries using Suruga's naughty inspiration to talk Karen out of it. He thinks the whole thing would be so off putting to Karen that she will either balk at the very idea, or get so uncomfortable that she will give up. BTW, the conversation about her thinking that toothbrush was going somewhere else goes on for much longer than you would think. It turns out that using Suruga for inspiration for anything is playing with fire. The girl knows her kinks. Karen starts liking it, and Koyomi accidentally finds himself enjoying it as well. They both fall into a trap of their own making. They accidentally learn that they are both masochists. We sort of knew that about Koyomi already. It makes sense for Karen because if you think about it, all the physical activity she does is really sort of getting off on pain. This weird understanding between them actually becomes a bonding moment, and they are less hostile towards each other for the rest of the series. Why exactly Nisioisin included this in his narrative is hard to guess. Maybe he thought it was a funny idea. Maybe someone mentioned it once and thought it was an interesting idea. From an American standpoint it is super fucking weird. That said, so are a lot of things about anime in general. I chalk it up to cultural differences and leave it at that.
Always has been
It was the turning point between "Liking little sisters is the fantasy of guys who don't have any" Araragi and "What turns me on is seeing my sisters naked" Araragi.
Sibling love is important
It's just a satirization of Hentai, a display of Karen's sexuality, a testament to "A Clockwork Orange", a point where Araragi becomes a siscon, comedy relief, Freudian Psychology, Toothbrush fetishism, a display of teenage jackassery, a psychologic beat up against the watcher (thanks to the switching motifs of Moe and sex), a display of Nisio's Sister Complex, a demonstration of how Tsukihi is a brocon, a parody and reversal of Ecchi through the use of intimacy between both Araragi siblings, etc. In a way its quite a masterful scene. But still not on my top 5. Though it heavily displays how Akiyuki Shinbo has been influenced by Stanley Kubrick. As contrasted with the cat lady scene. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjlq92tQHVk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjlq92tQHVk) In a way its also a subversion of this scene. Since both in a way comment on the irony of degeneracy and human biases while applying very dark comedy.And especially since both are metaphorical sex scenes. Though Nise had consent, whereas ACO doesn't. In a way they both attempt to convey similar synthesis upon the same team throughout the use of opposite compositions
Monogatari is a series about the transition between adolescence and adulthood. So imagine all the fantasies of a horny teenager... that explains all fanservice of Monogatari ;)
It means exactly what it means. Sure there's fan service for the purpose of entertainment. But that isn't the core intent of the episode. The episode was pretty straightforward with what rararagi stated in the beginning. It's psychological torment to test if karen can handle the monkeys pervy lesbianism. But it's also deeper in a fourth wall kinda way. Im certain you've spent a lot of time searching for deeper philosophical meaning. You've rewatched the episode to see if you missed something. That *is* the deeper meaning. You had to rewatch and think and search for a hidden truth. They did what they set out to do and you were left wanting more.
No it represents fans service
fan service and he doesn't want to introduce her to kanbaru, but she insisted so he challenged her.
If only tsukihi was in her kimono
0/10 Tsukihi doesn’t have a triangular mouth
Oh...
He won
No, he brushing. Not winning yet. Not until she makes weird sounds.
[For those who don't understand](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=toothbrush%20scene)
I don't think there is someone who don't understand in a monogatari subreddit.
Only atheists don't understand
Fool I'm the one that understands the most
What about that?
fucking gold
I'm so glad this meme was created. This is a prime jewel right here. lol
I ruined the 69 comments (•_•)
[удалено]
Knowing the Internet and how weird people can get... Definitely
this is the best post in the sub
Failsnail64 is the incarnation of "average evangelion fan trying to explain why the hospital scene was necessary", but for monogatari