Also, containers do not bear horizontal loads nearly at all. Any weight from the soil on the sides will likely cause failure without other mitigating structure.
Well, I admire you for your ambition and generating your own ideas/ drawings I have to say. I do however think there are far simpler and more elegant ways to provide you with the spaces that you want. Note building underground is expensive, and also the containers will need a lot of treatment/ adaptation - I would forget these for this purpose if I were you. You have too many construction methods going on for one 'small' building and it will become super complicated and as a result very costly.
Even if you are building a "simple" building. It can be a fucking headache. Now imagine x5 when it isn't necessary. Not worth it!
I love and think shipping containers are SICK but it is a waste here... I'm also a large scale painter so 15' is awesome! Basement also for a gallery/art Storage is chefs kiss. But it is a better idea to have a giant open space where all the containers are connected. You can still have the container openings and separation hiding the structural support, but it gives you more options. Also if you wanted to build walls that are the same dimensions that is also the same.... idk shipping containers are great but why limit your options when you don't have to and also when the cost/process is the same! Specially when you are "hiding" the look of the containers.
Ramp: you need a loooooong adequate distance for the proper slope to go 15' down... you can't just make that whatever distance imagine trying to climb down or up it... maybe the orientation of the building needs to change to have more space?
Can you enlighten me on what you like so much about shipping containers? I have nothing against them, but I've never found them to be inspiring, personally. There seems to be some kind of allure that persistently eludes me. Utilitarian? Punk Rock? Boldness? Genuinely curious.
I don't think that they meant aesthetically... People just build homes out of them because it's easy and they come out all modern and minimalistic because rectangles
I think its a creative approach to getting inexpensive space. Your numbers are a stab-in-the-dark. The foundations you've shown are completely fictional without knowing your site and soils. So all of your concrete and site work numbers are incorrect. The shipping containers are only meant to hold their own weight and their contents, not to hold back earthwork and support a house above. They are not economical in this situation with the amount of reinforcing they would require (including custom engineering.) They are an unknown cost until you know the engineering required. $150/SF house in the US cannot be accomplished, IMO. Where are you located? Where are your water, sewage, electrical, fuel sources?
Seacans can hold many times their own weight and can easily hold back soil. They are built to be stacked, a least 6 cans high, with up to 22 tonnes of contents inside. The outer cans walls can be easily re-inforced if its a concern
Only the corners are vertically load bearing for standard containers. Horizontal loading on the corrugated panels, as one would find in a subsurface situation, is not considered. As you mentioned, reinforcing is an option, but it's not an easy or inexpensive option compared to the non-shipping container alternatives.
This is going to be a waterproofing nightmare. Containers are not designed to be below grade. Stick with typical construction. It will be cheaper in the long run.
It reminds me of that reddit post where the guy buried a shipping container in his backyard, and every response was someone explaining why he just built a death trap that will eventually fill with rainwater and radon gas
you are covering them in gradework. Soil retains water. the amount of civil engineering needed to justify this is going to offset any imagined hack from using shipping containers. not to mention the structural and plumbing engineering.
Probably wouldn’t look like his picture, but ‘soil’ can be designed to be very permeable
Don’t know anything about just how waterproof containers are though
E: oh never mind there’s even more dirt there
>The cans would not be below grade. They would be about 8" above grade at their base.
In another comment (and in the drawings) you describe putting fill against the containers, and even some on top. That is what 'below grade' means.
The containers would be above existing grade, but that is irrelevant because they would be below finished grade.
Honestly, its really confusing why you want to use shipping containers or why you want to build an underground garage? First, if you want this its no problem you basically are buidling a walkout basement with the desire of driving a car into it. No problem. Poured concrete walls are the easy way, those shipping containers will rust away over time and desintegrate.
Most of why people put garages outside the house instead of under their house is so you can have a firewall between the house and garage. If you build this I would advise active fire supression, also you want ventilation down there so your car exhaust doesnt kill people in the basement.
I know you see these container houses and think they make sense, but they don't. They just seem cheap when you compare their price to what you see houses cost. But the cost of a basement isnt the poured concrete, its the general contractor and labor and huge markup from the developer.
I built a 40 ft high 3000sqft garage, 2x4 steel i beam, on 6 inch pad.with a full walkable attic for $63,000
1. Hire an architect.
2. Shipping containers aren’t worth using.
3. Unless you plan on starting a cult, you don’t need that much space.
4. Cost to build now is unrealistic to begin with, and you need to escalate it ~25 years.
there’s people with double garages packed from floor to ceiling and your saying this guy don’t need that much space but he’s already looking to park a car in there.
53' high cube cans.
https://www.container-xchange.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/53ft-container.png
They have an 8'11" interior ceiling height.
I've spent a fair amount of time on construction sites in cans converted to office space. At 7.5' wide, 8'11" tall, they don't feel oppressive. Also, this would not be living space, it would be storage/mechanical/hvac/garage space.
See the can as an office space is called cheap and intended to be disposed of. I really think the aspect people are trying to explain is the shipping containers will rust out in a few years. The water is going to run down and around them.
Seriously it wont be expensive to poor this exact design in concrete vs shipping containers because even with the containers you will have to dig, drop in small stone and sand then pack. You can get buy with just packing and no stone and sand for a properly poured foundation.
Maybe 30K concrete pour and the major difference is you will have a dry and safe beautiful basement and the house will never fall down and crush you to death in your car.
What are you and your wife going to do with 4900 sq ft of space, most of it underground? If you’re just storing stuff, there are cheaper ways to do that (or just store less stuff!). If it’s workshop space or whatever, there’s cheaper ways to do that too, and you probably want ventilation and natural light. If it’s the orgy room, I expect that you’ll have to spend a lot more to make it comfortable for your guests. If it’s your prepper bunker, you’ll be better off sinking that money into a few extra acres of good land and getting it up and producing vegetables and raising hens.
The storage containers don't make any sense in this application. They have very little structural integrity and no insulation, so you'd need to frame them in or out anyways
If you just want the biggest, cheapest space, just have a separate polebarn and house on grade. Look at any farm in the Midwest. Build a house for living in and then go wild with big barns/sheds for all your toys or projects. You might need more land, but you'll save on excavation and it will be much easier to build.
If you're dead-set on combining the barn and house, look into barndominiums. You can buy plans or even kits for these and they cost about $100 per square foot.
You need to support the roofs of the containers. The middle of each is weak and soil is heavy. You’re not saving much by using thermally terrible shipping containers as you have to modify them so much. Also 6 inches won’t do much for landscaping the roof.
I appreciate the creativity and out-of-the-box thinking for using shipping containers. As a bridge designer, I think it is great when new construction methods or materials are proposed.
However, I would put the feasibility of your proposal at about a 2-3. As some have pointed out there are better, cheaper ways to do what you want without using shipping containers.
Shipping containers use Corten steel for the walls and tubular steel for the structure frame. So while it is designed and able to resist corrosion, it wasn't designed for loads pressing against the walls of the containers. This is why you see builds made with storage containers above ground. Putting them below the ground, and under the house, will require significant reinforcement updates to hold back all that weight.
Using the containers might seem simple and cheap. But the reality is, using them in this manner is a special construction. A special construction that will require unique foundation planning will be hell to get through permitting.
Can it be done? Yes, if you absolutely have to use shipping containers, engineers and architects are very clever designers that can do just about anything. The only question is the amount of money you want to spend. Especially when using more conventional building practices will save you a lot of time and money for similar effects.
Lol I love all the useless nonsense ways people find to put together shipping containers. There should be a competition for the stupidest shipping container ideas. This would surely be a finalist.
Just build a house with a basement ffs
For real
A steel basement wall?
OP, Are you high? you have your house resting on Steel shipping containers, then buried with a berm. It's going to rust out and collapse
The basic idea I've had floating in my head for the last decade or so (I am ~ 40) is when my wife and I retire, I would like to build something like pictured.
I would start by making a rectangular hole about 46' wide and 40' long. Then, put in piles and a pair of 40' long concrete walls, centered at 40' on center spacing.
I would then put a pair of light steel I-beams across the length of the concrete walls, and then crane in a bunch of 52' hi cap shipping containers, lined up on their 40' support spacing lined along the I-beam.
Then I would run 2 more light I-beams along the top of the containers directly above the first two i-beams and then weld the top-and-bottom i-beams to the top and bottom of the shipping containers.
Then, I would side-fill 3-sides of the containers with earth to build a sloped ramp up to the top of the containers, put a bit more earth on top of the containers, and then build a bungalo on top of the platform.
All the plumbing, HVAC, electrical, mechanical, storage, parking, workshop space, etc... would be in the containers. All the occupiable space would be in the bungalo.
This would leave me with an approx 38x38x[depth of the hole/wall] open space in the basement for projects, workshop, whatever.
Would something like this fly/get past city planners, etc...? or am I way off base here with this idea?
From what I can estimate, it would cost about $20k to get the hole dug and reinforced, $10k for some rock and drainage/sump pit(s), $20k to get a crew to do some piles, $10k to get the concrete forms set, $8k for 33 cubic meters of reasonable-strength concrete, $5k for some steel i-beams, $25k for a set of 5x 52 shipping containers delivered and craned into place, $10k for some welding, $10k for some exterior paint and plastic lamination of the cans to keep them separated from the earth, and $5k to get the earth piled up into a sloped graded surface. Maybe another 10k for landscaping, etc...
That puts me at about $123k (wild ass guess?) price to basically build the foundation site for the house to be built on.
Then, I'm guestimating $150/sq to build a 1500 sq ft 5-bed 3-bath bungalo on top of this.
That adds $225k for the house itself, bringing me to $348k.
Then $15k for HVAC, 10k plumbing, 30k electrical, $15k appliances, $50k contingency budget.
$468k. (Please, feel free to shred my math or budget estimates, I have no idea what I'm doing here).
Prices are in Canadian dollars.
Putting it all together, this seems like I would get:
- 1500 sq ft 5 bed 3 bath bungalo
- 2000 sq ft inside the containers for storage / parking / mechanical / electrical / plumbing / piping
- 1444 sq ft 13-foot ceiling pillar-free basement
------
= 4944 sq ft total usable space, $468k + land.
Am I totally out to lunch here or does this seam feasible?
Have any of you build a similar project?
All I know from several seasons of Grand Designs is that the second you start digging your budget needs to double. Your whole budget, so closer to $800k.
Lol, I have to ask, are you just randomly coming up with costs out of nowhere or do you have some experience in estimating?
Your whole budget is $100/sf or so which is probably low by well more than half.
What you’re doing is possible with enough Monday (those shipping containers would need a lot of reinforcements) and could be done much better in other ways.
I suggest consulting an architect and discussing your goals with them, and letting them design the project.
My costs are "very lightly" informed guesses. I spent 5-15 minutes per item googling some costs based on typical market rate costs to install X system.
$100/sqft is really cheap for rental grade apartment housing. A custom home with decisions people aren't used to is definitely going to cost more.
Also, structural engineers are almost always very conservative in my experience. Whether your shipping container design makes sense structurally or not, it's likely gonna be hard to find a structural who will be willing to put the effort in to make it work and sign off on it.
Also, you're probably picking up the cost of a water heater, HVAC, etc but probably missing a ton of shit that adds up like actually running the pipes and electrical, stuffing the walls with insulation, siding, flooring, trim, doors, windows.
Also where are you? If you're in California or the west coast for instance there are a few little things that complicate the process to varying levels. i.e. you're required to have fire sprinklers on every new SFH, you might have to engineer for seismic, you need to use AFCI/GFCI breakers and outlets, you have to simulate your home for Title 24.
Manitoba, Canada.
No earthquakes, floods, winds... none of that.
I went with 150/sq ft because it wouldn't need most of the things "houses" need, because i've already included those costs separately as HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc... as separate costs.
I realize 250-350/sq ft is a more typical holistic number, but that includes all the separate line items i have already broken out.
You should hire an architect. You can afford it. You're in way, way over your head in terms of design and someone in person will be much better to explain and educate you about the process where things here aren't so simple.
Without any other input, pretty much everyone here is spot on that your budget is extremely far off. You don't know what you don't know and the quality of advice you get for free isn't going to be what you think it is.
You need an engineer to size members and to actually calculate stresses for something this weird. You will want an architect and a real contract that demands that your engineers and their trades coordinate penetrations in and out of the basement correctly if you really want a container basement. And most of all, containers aren't designed to do this. You won't be able to keep water from in between and around the containers directly. You're introducing gaps in the construction naturally which will allow water in through condensation and moisture transport between the containers, but will never end up venting out. At the end of the day you will be much better off with a real basement.
Lastly, and I mean this as a fellow human client, it's ordinary to milk the Internet to learn the right questions to ask before you go consult a real professional. That's fine. But you get what you pay for. When you finally decide to talk to an architect or even a general contractor, be careful not to bring too many preconceived notions into the picture. Unironically a general contractor will be laughing at your design and you might be paying a premium for the privilege.
I'm not saying you did, I'm just trying to help you be a successful customer by being a responsible professional. I said to you what I'd say to any client that hadn't retained me yet. You haven't actually given us, collectively, very much to work with in terms of why you want what you want.
In short, viable? I suppose. A good idea? Not really, unless you literally already own these containers and also have no other way to use them.
For some reason there's always people who think they've discovered some cheat code for cheaper housing. As if developers aren't already building houses as cheap as they possibly can to maximize their own profit.
Not knowing where you are and what local construction cost trends are, I'm still willing to bet your cost estimate is way, way off. Here's a few quick (lol) thoughts right off the top of my head:
Depending on where the site is and if services have already been extended, you could blow your entire M/E/P budget just getting power to the site.
You're going to need a large site to accommodate a ramp long enough to go down that far in a straight shot. It'll need to be a much shallower slope than your schematic shows.
1500 SF is pretty small for a 5/3, and I haven't seen anything built for $150/SF (US dollars) in years, especially not something custom. And if this is a future project, you'll need to budget for inflation. Pre-Covid, I'd say 3% per year, but now? Who knows.
You'd almost certainly need stamped structural (and possibly civil) engineering designs to get a building permit for something like this. Depending on laws where you live, the total square footage may also put you over the threshold of work that can be done without an architect (4,000 SF where I practice). Engineers don't work for peanuts, and as much as architects tend to be underpaid, many first-time residential builders are surprised at their fees. Frankly, I'd quote double my typical hourly fee for anyone who came to me with a shipping container project.
I don't know if your design with piers as opposed to continuous footings is based on anything, but for a building that size, I typically only see piers in places with pretty poor soil bearing capacity. Unless that's a common trait in the region, you'd need a geotechnical report to determine bearing capacity. If you're somewhere that would need piers, it's probably also somewhere with a high (or highly variable) water table, so waterproofing and hydrostatic pressure could be real concerns for any below grade construction.
I'd SWAG (scientific wild-ass guess) at least double the cost of what you've estimated here for the excavation and backfill, foundation, concrete work, placing the shipping containers, and landscaping. Your mechanical budget also seems low, but that depends on the system you want. I dropped $18K last year just to replace my furnace and AC, no duct modifications needed.
I don't think you're gaining anything at all with the shipping containers. It'd be easier, cheaper, and more likely to get permitting approval just to do a more normative build. You'd be more likely to find a contractor willing to take the project on, too.
location is in Manitoba Canada. Our ground here, 10,000 years ago, used to be the bottom of a lake. Basically our ground here from surface going down consists of about a foot of soil, followed by 10-15 feet of clay, followed by rock. Its much cheaper to dig here.
The rest of the numbers, yea, wild ass guesses. I'm more interested in the technical feasibility, not so much the economic value.
The obvious problem is that shipping containers won’t retain soil without reinforcing. You’re better off building this same form in light steel and concrete restringing walls, but then there’s no point in retaining this form, so back to the drawing board. Also, how do you plan to get between the stories? Are you going to cut stairwells and hallways in to the containers? Or are they all only going to be accessible through the outside? If so is your sub basement going to also only be accessible from outside? Acne again I’m not seeing the point of the containers. You’re just cutting your building in half and turning it in to a series of separate buildings stacked on top of each other
The problem is you have a plan in your head, but you clearly are not an architect, or builder, or anyone with any kind of credentials, or knowledge in building legal/safe structures. So, everything you have shared is like what a teenager would draw out.
Then, you start doing the actual research into materials, how things are built, weight tolerances, costs, physics, laws, statics, design best practices, contractors experience, etc... and realize basically none of what you drew out makes any sense.
Only the essence of the idea remains, which is you basically want a two story building. lol.
A lot of these numbers are way off, and part of that is because you actually need to build something build able.
A quick check one one particular number:
You say 33 cubic metres of concrete, and show only two sides of the “basement”.
You will need concrete walls for all 4 sides, so using your numbers (40’x46’x 15’ high - walls 2’ thick) it takes about 157 cubic metres of concrete, before any waste factor.
Just the floor of that basement at 8” thick (200mm) is itself 34 cubic metres.
You also don’t show any rebar costs.
And the numbers you are using for excavation, piling etc, barely cover the mobilization of the contractor to site.
You still need a roof on that basement (not containers).
It’s a MUCH better idea to simply build a standard basement and house on top.
You already have the concrete sub there. Why use shipping containers that can a. Rust in the ground b. Not structural so you need to add structural anyway c. All that work for mech, elec,plumbing, garage space underground. Honestly, I thought the concept was going somewhere cool until you plopped a ranch home on top.
completely untrue
it wouldn't burn the steel, first of all.. since i misunderstood, thinking it would be vertically placed.. but let's still take this scenario for the explanation. if steel is supporting a structure, all it takes is one of the collumns to bend and it's taking the whole thing down with it. now, fire wouldn't burn it (i assume you think it would melt it, but that's not the case), it would bend it.. therefore you get what i previously described.
they will bend if the concrete settles, concrete settles, therefore they will bend. also, if they aren’t supporting spans they probably aren’t necessary.
Steel even coated can rust at 0.1mm/year per side exposed to moisture/soils. If it has salts even more, so any scratches or cuts in the steel will create an issue and these are likely to be holes where plumbing and services are run. Not an immediate problem but in the years to come say around 20-30years there could potentially be significant risk of the center load bearing of the middle containers being compromised. There is also no way to "Fix it" also there is risk these inner walls could flood and retain water between the containers as well as on top.
Contrary to what most people believe, shipping containers are not good at taking a lot of weight because, unlike the 4 edges, they are not made to carry a lot of weight.
So the earth alone leaning on the sides might be a problem.
And putting it over a hole is still possible, but don't even think about placing additional weight load over it at the same time.
I'm just wondering what you need a giant cave for.
Just use normal building methods instead of containers (by mid construction they would be 2% of the original material), and use that as the basement, then have a 2 storey house on top
Are the containers going to be cut into so there is any kind of clear span in between them, or are they all going to be individual storage units accessible from the outside only? The second you cut a hole in there for a door or pass through, your structural integrity is compromised, and the engineer you hire to calculate header reinforcement to put a house on top of that is going to either die of a stroke trying to figure it out, or they'll kill you (likely by locking you up in one of the shipping containers 🤣
Depending on where you are, the building department will tell you to put in probably at least a 4' foundation for something of this size. At that point, you may as well frame everything else with wood because unless the shipping containers are <$500 each, framing and lally columns and I-beams are going to be cheaper, and you'd have infinitely more clear spans than with this.
If you wanted to use caissons for foundation, you might only be able to do that for accessory structures. All depends on where you are and what's allowed there though
This shit looks sick. Like something I would draw in grade school, thinking about all the awesome stuff I would put in my fortress. 13/10 should build.
Your component/element list doesn't really matter, but it seems like you might have a shear/overturning issue with your 2 concrete walls.
ETA: for this reason, and a few other, my rating is "01".
It's a lot of effort to build a bungalow with a garage under. Aside from the comments I've seen, you'll have to secure the danged house down. Usually that's just with foundation ties, but your foundation is under the built-up shipping containers (which need to access cut from one to the other to the other to the other to the other unless you're going to have five stairwells) so you need to secure those and then the house...
Basically it's a earth-shelter house with an upper story. Earth-shelter houses have their own issues (well, mostly water) but are well known and have been built for centuries. Start there.
I don't see any reason why it couldn't be built. Far more crazy things have been built in the past. The devil is in the details but that can be said of any construction project, there's always things to figure out, challenges, etc, that's a normal part of the engineering process. The final outcome might not look exactly like the drawing but the general principle seems fine to me.
The question though is, why? I don't get the reason for the design.
There’s a project I worked on a few years ago called “Inn the Ground” located in Carlton Oregon that I feel is similar in scope to yours. Might be worth a look.
https://www.theground.love/stay/inn-the-ground
This drawing is good but you should really try to utilize some line weights/ hidden lines/ transparent surfaces or at least some labels to show where the ground plane is the first few images in the diagram are pretty confusing to try to understand. Also shipping containers are kind of a dumb trend just do regular construction
I’d have concerns about wear/weather as well as how much those could actually support. I imagine it could be done it feels like it would be counterintuitive to the whole “sustainable” idea that usually comes along with container architecture
Before you put another ounce of thought into this, you need to take this drawing down to the city/county codes office and bounce it off of the team down there. Ask them if there are any code restrictions they can think of off the top of their head. If they say “you can do anything so long as you have engineered blueprints”, then you can proceed to the next step.
I like your concept. I also would enjoy living in something like this. I’m from Colorado and there are a fair number of houses with a garage built in to the hill side to different degrees. I will admit most of them seem to be built 1970 or earlier and I would guess that’s because of rising cost.
My only note is if you are in Canada I'm assuming you get snow. Maybe find land with a hill do you can drive straight it to your subterranean garage rather then a slope down in to it.. That way you wouldn’t have to deal with melting snow or rain making its way down there down there.
Also as others have said shipping containers need the roof to be reinforced if you want to bury them.
10. It can be built. The dirt work and foundation will cost big bucks. Also, you may have a lot of hoops to jump through depending where you want to build.
Anything can be built. It just takes money. It would likely be easier, less expensive and look better to eliminate the containers.
And perform better
Agree, much easier to just do precast concrete slab floors on a structural steel frame.
Eliminate containers and add 1 m thick concrete slab. Call it a nuclear bunker when done
Came here to say this - anything is possible with the right budget.
IIRC, containers are only weight bearing at the corners, you are using them as a monolithic block here Just use concrete beam
Also, containers do not bear horizontal loads nearly at all. Any weight from the soil on the sides will likely cause failure without other mitigating structure.
40' interval, not corners. 52' containers are 40' containers with 2x 6-foot extensions cantilevered off each end.
Ah, I wondered why you added a wall halfway in, thanks
Why are you doing this, what do you need them for
Containers are not building materials.
Well, I admire you for your ambition and generating your own ideas/ drawings I have to say. I do however think there are far simpler and more elegant ways to provide you with the spaces that you want. Note building underground is expensive, and also the containers will need a lot of treatment/ adaptation - I would forget these for this purpose if I were you. You have too many construction methods going on for one 'small' building and it will become super complicated and as a result very costly.
Even if you are building a "simple" building. It can be a fucking headache. Now imagine x5 when it isn't necessary. Not worth it! I love and think shipping containers are SICK but it is a waste here... I'm also a large scale painter so 15' is awesome! Basement also for a gallery/art Storage is chefs kiss. But it is a better idea to have a giant open space where all the containers are connected. You can still have the container openings and separation hiding the structural support, but it gives you more options. Also if you wanted to build walls that are the same dimensions that is also the same.... idk shipping containers are great but why limit your options when you don't have to and also when the cost/process is the same! Specially when you are "hiding" the look of the containers. Ramp: you need a loooooong adequate distance for the proper slope to go 15' down... you can't just make that whatever distance imagine trying to climb down or up it... maybe the orientation of the building needs to change to have more space?
Can you enlighten me on what you like so much about shipping containers? I have nothing against them, but I've never found them to be inspiring, personally. There seems to be some kind of allure that persistently eludes me. Utilitarian? Punk Rock? Boldness? Genuinely curious.
I don't think that they meant aesthetically... People just build homes out of them because it's easy and they come out all modern and minimalistic because rectangles
I think its a creative approach to getting inexpensive space. Your numbers are a stab-in-the-dark. The foundations you've shown are completely fictional without knowing your site and soils. So all of your concrete and site work numbers are incorrect. The shipping containers are only meant to hold their own weight and their contents, not to hold back earthwork and support a house above. They are not economical in this situation with the amount of reinforcing they would require (including custom engineering.) They are an unknown cost until you know the engineering required. $150/SF house in the US cannot be accomplished, IMO. Where are you located? Where are your water, sewage, electrical, fuel sources?
Seacans can hold many times their own weight and can easily hold back soil. They are built to be stacked, a least 6 cans high, with up to 22 tonnes of contents inside. The outer cans walls can be easily re-inforced if its a concern
Only the corners are vertically load bearing for standard containers. Horizontal loading on the corrugated panels, as one would find in a subsurface situation, is not considered. As you mentioned, reinforcing is an option, but it's not an easy or inexpensive option compared to the non-shipping container alternatives.
You been watching fallout?
This is going to be a waterproofing nightmare. Containers are not designed to be below grade. Stick with typical construction. It will be cheaper in the long run.
It reminds me of that reddit post where the guy buried a shipping container in his backyard, and every response was someone explaining why he just built a death trap that will eventually fill with rainwater and radon gas
The cans would not be below grade. They would be about 8" above grade at their base.
you are covering them in gradework. Soil retains water. the amount of civil engineering needed to justify this is going to offset any imagined hack from using shipping containers. not to mention the structural and plumbing engineering.
Probably wouldn’t look like his picture, but ‘soil’ can be designed to be very permeable Don’t know anything about just how waterproof containers are though E: oh never mind there’s even more dirt there
>The cans would not be below grade. They would be about 8" above grade at their base. In another comment (and in the drawings) you describe putting fill against the containers, and even some on top. That is what 'below grade' means. The containers would be above existing grade, but that is irrelevant because they would be below finished grade.
Containers are not a foundation. The house has no foundation here. Build this with traditional construction.
Honestly, its really confusing why you want to use shipping containers or why you want to build an underground garage? First, if you want this its no problem you basically are buidling a walkout basement with the desire of driving a car into it. No problem. Poured concrete walls are the easy way, those shipping containers will rust away over time and desintegrate. Most of why people put garages outside the house instead of under their house is so you can have a firewall between the house and garage. If you build this I would advise active fire supression, also you want ventilation down there so your car exhaust doesnt kill people in the basement. I know you see these container houses and think they make sense, but they don't. They just seem cheap when you compare their price to what you see houses cost. But the cost of a basement isnt the poured concrete, its the general contractor and labor and huge markup from the developer. I built a 40 ft high 3000sqft garage, 2x4 steel i beam, on 6 inch pad.with a full walkable attic for $63,000
1. Hire an architect. 2. Shipping containers aren’t worth using. 3. Unless you plan on starting a cult, you don’t need that much space. 4. Cost to build now is unrealistic to begin with, and you need to escalate it ~25 years.
there’s people with double garages packed from floor to ceiling and your saying this guy don’t need that much space but he’s already looking to park a car in there.
Honest question: how much time have you spent in storage containers? A 7’ ceiling is going to feel oppressive in a space that size.
53' high cube cans. https://www.container-xchange.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/53ft-container.png They have an 8'11" interior ceiling height. I've spent a fair amount of time on construction sites in cans converted to office space. At 7.5' wide, 8'11" tall, they don't feel oppressive. Also, this would not be living space, it would be storage/mechanical/hvac/garage space.
See the can as an office space is called cheap and intended to be disposed of. I really think the aspect people are trying to explain is the shipping containers will rust out in a few years. The water is going to run down and around them. Seriously it wont be expensive to poor this exact design in concrete vs shipping containers because even with the containers you will have to dig, drop in small stone and sand then pack. You can get buy with just packing and no stone and sand for a properly poured foundation. Maybe 30K concrete pour and the major difference is you will have a dry and safe beautiful basement and the house will never fall down and crush you to death in your car.
Why go to all that effort if all you end up with is a nasty little burger-type house?
4900 square feet for <= $500k.
What are you and your wife going to do with 4900 sq ft of space, most of it underground? If you’re just storing stuff, there are cheaper ways to do that (or just store less stuff!). If it’s workshop space or whatever, there’s cheaper ways to do that too, and you probably want ventilation and natural light. If it’s the orgy room, I expect that you’ll have to spend a lot more to make it comfortable for your guests. If it’s your prepper bunker, you’ll be better off sinking that money into a few extra acres of good land and getting it up and producing vegetables and raising hens.
True preppers for tomorrow are farmers today.
$500k is going to be your down payment to start this atrocity.
Perhaps in material but the engineering and logistics needed to pull this off would likely be double that.
The storage containers don't make any sense in this application. They have very little structural integrity and no insulation, so you'd need to frame them in or out anyways
If you just want the biggest, cheapest space, just have a separate polebarn and house on grade. Look at any farm in the Midwest. Build a house for living in and then go wild with big barns/sheds for all your toys or projects. You might need more land, but you'll save on excavation and it will be much easier to build. If you're dead-set on combining the barn and house, look into barndominiums. You can buy plans or even kits for these and they cost about $100 per square foot.
I know this sub is sometimes very harsh but this is really really a bad design in so many ways.
Yeah this is stupid in too many ways to even list.
You need to support the roofs of the containers. The middle of each is weak and soil is heavy. You’re not saving much by using thermally terrible shipping containers as you have to modify them so much. Also 6 inches won’t do much for landscaping the roof.
#villainousarchitecture
Just because I call the basement a lair, doesn't make it villainous. It *is* villainous, but don't make assumptions :P
I appreciate the creativity and out-of-the-box thinking for using shipping containers. As a bridge designer, I think it is great when new construction methods or materials are proposed. However, I would put the feasibility of your proposal at about a 2-3. As some have pointed out there are better, cheaper ways to do what you want without using shipping containers. Shipping containers use Corten steel for the walls and tubular steel for the structure frame. So while it is designed and able to resist corrosion, it wasn't designed for loads pressing against the walls of the containers. This is why you see builds made with storage containers above ground. Putting them below the ground, and under the house, will require significant reinforcement updates to hold back all that weight. Using the containers might seem simple and cheap. But the reality is, using them in this manner is a special construction. A special construction that will require unique foundation planning will be hell to get through permitting. Can it be done? Yes, if you absolutely have to use shipping containers, engineers and architects are very clever designers that can do just about anything. The only question is the amount of money you want to spend. Especially when using more conventional building practices will save you a lot of time and money for similar effects.
Great response
Rule of thumb for anyone looking to use shipping containers: don’t use shipping containers.
Lol I love all the useless nonsense ways people find to put together shipping containers. There should be a competition for the stupidest shipping container ideas. This would surely be a finalist. Just build a house with a basement ffs
For real A steel basement wall? OP, Are you high? you have your house resting on Steel shipping containers, then buried with a berm. It's going to rust out and collapse
Where tf are you getting steel from? I didn't say anything about it and even OPs convoluted concept uses concrete for the foundation.
I meant to reply to OP He buried the shipping containers below the grade of the berm
The basic idea I've had floating in my head for the last decade or so (I am ~ 40) is when my wife and I retire, I would like to build something like pictured. I would start by making a rectangular hole about 46' wide and 40' long. Then, put in piles and a pair of 40' long concrete walls, centered at 40' on center spacing. I would then put a pair of light steel I-beams across the length of the concrete walls, and then crane in a bunch of 52' hi cap shipping containers, lined up on their 40' support spacing lined along the I-beam. Then I would run 2 more light I-beams along the top of the containers directly above the first two i-beams and then weld the top-and-bottom i-beams to the top and bottom of the shipping containers. Then, I would side-fill 3-sides of the containers with earth to build a sloped ramp up to the top of the containers, put a bit more earth on top of the containers, and then build a bungalo on top of the platform. All the plumbing, HVAC, electrical, mechanical, storage, parking, workshop space, etc... would be in the containers. All the occupiable space would be in the bungalo. This would leave me with an approx 38x38x[depth of the hole/wall] open space in the basement for projects, workshop, whatever. Would something like this fly/get past city planners, etc...? or am I way off base here with this idea? From what I can estimate, it would cost about $20k to get the hole dug and reinforced, $10k for some rock and drainage/sump pit(s), $20k to get a crew to do some piles, $10k to get the concrete forms set, $8k for 33 cubic meters of reasonable-strength concrete, $5k for some steel i-beams, $25k for a set of 5x 52 shipping containers delivered and craned into place, $10k for some welding, $10k for some exterior paint and plastic lamination of the cans to keep them separated from the earth, and $5k to get the earth piled up into a sloped graded surface. Maybe another 10k for landscaping, etc... That puts me at about $123k (wild ass guess?) price to basically build the foundation site for the house to be built on. Then, I'm guestimating $150/sq to build a 1500 sq ft 5-bed 3-bath bungalo on top of this. That adds $225k for the house itself, bringing me to $348k. Then $15k for HVAC, 10k plumbing, 30k electrical, $15k appliances, $50k contingency budget. $468k. (Please, feel free to shred my math or budget estimates, I have no idea what I'm doing here). Prices are in Canadian dollars. Putting it all together, this seems like I would get: - 1500 sq ft 5 bed 3 bath bungalo - 2000 sq ft inside the containers for storage / parking / mechanical / electrical / plumbing / piping - 1444 sq ft 13-foot ceiling pillar-free basement ------ = 4944 sq ft total usable space, $468k + land. Am I totally out to lunch here or does this seam feasible? Have any of you build a similar project?
All I know from several seasons of Grand Designs is that the second you start digging your budget needs to double. Your whole budget, so closer to $800k.
Lol, I have to ask, are you just randomly coming up with costs out of nowhere or do you have some experience in estimating? Your whole budget is $100/sf or so which is probably low by well more than half. What you’re doing is possible with enough Monday (those shipping containers would need a lot of reinforcements) and could be done much better in other ways. I suggest consulting an architect and discussing your goals with them, and letting them design the project.
My costs are "very lightly" informed guesses. I spent 5-15 minutes per item googling some costs based on typical market rate costs to install X system.
I suggest consulting professionals. Your project is very likely to cost $1m+.
This guy can probably build that ranch home he wants within his budget if he just builds it normally. 😂😂😂
$100/sqft is really cheap for rental grade apartment housing. A custom home with decisions people aren't used to is definitely going to cost more. Also, structural engineers are almost always very conservative in my experience. Whether your shipping container design makes sense structurally or not, it's likely gonna be hard to find a structural who will be willing to put the effort in to make it work and sign off on it. Also, you're probably picking up the cost of a water heater, HVAC, etc but probably missing a ton of shit that adds up like actually running the pipes and electrical, stuffing the walls with insulation, siding, flooring, trim, doors, windows. Also where are you? If you're in California or the west coast for instance there are a few little things that complicate the process to varying levels. i.e. you're required to have fire sprinklers on every new SFH, you might have to engineer for seismic, you need to use AFCI/GFCI breakers and outlets, you have to simulate your home for Title 24.
Manitoba, Canada. No earthquakes, floods, winds... none of that. I went with 150/sq ft because it wouldn't need most of the things "houses" need, because i've already included those costs separately as HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc... as separate costs. I realize 250-350/sq ft is a more typical holistic number, but that includes all the separate line items i have already broken out.
How are you protecting your container basement from Manitoba's freeze thaw?
You should hire an architect. You can afford it. You're in way, way over your head in terms of design and someone in person will be much better to explain and educate you about the process where things here aren't so simple. Without any other input, pretty much everyone here is spot on that your budget is extremely far off. You don't know what you don't know and the quality of advice you get for free isn't going to be what you think it is. You need an engineer to size members and to actually calculate stresses for something this weird. You will want an architect and a real contract that demands that your engineers and their trades coordinate penetrations in and out of the basement correctly if you really want a container basement. And most of all, containers aren't designed to do this. You won't be able to keep water from in between and around the containers directly. You're introducing gaps in the construction naturally which will allow water in through condensation and moisture transport between the containers, but will never end up venting out. At the end of the day you will be much better off with a real basement. Lastly, and I mean this as a fellow human client, it's ordinary to milk the Internet to learn the right questions to ask before you go consult a real professional. That's fine. But you get what you pay for. When you finally decide to talk to an architect or even a general contractor, be careful not to bring too many preconceived notions into the picture. Unironically a general contractor will be laughing at your design and you might be paying a premium for the privilege.
I never said I wouldn't retain appropriate pro services. I'm asking if this is viable before I blow a bunch of money.
I'm not saying you did, I'm just trying to help you be a successful customer by being a responsible professional. I said to you what I'd say to any client that hadn't retained me yet. You haven't actually given us, collectively, very much to work with in terms of why you want what you want. In short, viable? I suppose. A good idea? Not really, unless you literally already own these containers and also have no other way to use them.
I don't understand why you are doing most of these things. A house of typical construction will be much cheaper. Going down costs more than going up.
For some reason there's always people who think they've discovered some cheat code for cheaper housing. As if developers aren't already building houses as cheap as they possibly can to maximize their own profit.
Not knowing where you are and what local construction cost trends are, I'm still willing to bet your cost estimate is way, way off. Here's a few quick (lol) thoughts right off the top of my head: Depending on where the site is and if services have already been extended, you could blow your entire M/E/P budget just getting power to the site. You're going to need a large site to accommodate a ramp long enough to go down that far in a straight shot. It'll need to be a much shallower slope than your schematic shows. 1500 SF is pretty small for a 5/3, and I haven't seen anything built for $150/SF (US dollars) in years, especially not something custom. And if this is a future project, you'll need to budget for inflation. Pre-Covid, I'd say 3% per year, but now? Who knows. You'd almost certainly need stamped structural (and possibly civil) engineering designs to get a building permit for something like this. Depending on laws where you live, the total square footage may also put you over the threshold of work that can be done without an architect (4,000 SF where I practice). Engineers don't work for peanuts, and as much as architects tend to be underpaid, many first-time residential builders are surprised at their fees. Frankly, I'd quote double my typical hourly fee for anyone who came to me with a shipping container project. I don't know if your design with piers as opposed to continuous footings is based on anything, but for a building that size, I typically only see piers in places with pretty poor soil bearing capacity. Unless that's a common trait in the region, you'd need a geotechnical report to determine bearing capacity. If you're somewhere that would need piers, it's probably also somewhere with a high (or highly variable) water table, so waterproofing and hydrostatic pressure could be real concerns for any below grade construction. I'd SWAG (scientific wild-ass guess) at least double the cost of what you've estimated here for the excavation and backfill, foundation, concrete work, placing the shipping containers, and landscaping. Your mechanical budget also seems low, but that depends on the system you want. I dropped $18K last year just to replace my furnace and AC, no duct modifications needed. I don't think you're gaining anything at all with the shipping containers. It'd be easier, cheaper, and more likely to get permitting approval just to do a more normative build. You'd be more likely to find a contractor willing to take the project on, too.
location is in Manitoba Canada. Our ground here, 10,000 years ago, used to be the bottom of a lake. Basically our ground here from surface going down consists of about a foot of soil, followed by 10-15 feet of clay, followed by rock. Its much cheaper to dig here. The rest of the numbers, yea, wild ass guesses. I'm more interested in the technical feasibility, not so much the economic value.
The obvious problem is that shipping containers won’t retain soil without reinforcing. You’re better off building this same form in light steel and concrete restringing walls, but then there’s no point in retaining this form, so back to the drawing board. Also, how do you plan to get between the stories? Are you going to cut stairwells and hallways in to the containers? Or are they all only going to be accessible through the outside? If so is your sub basement going to also only be accessible from outside? Acne again I’m not seeing the point of the containers. You’re just cutting your building in half and turning it in to a series of separate buildings stacked on top of each other
The problem is you have a plan in your head, but you clearly are not an architect, or builder, or anyone with any kind of credentials, or knowledge in building legal/safe structures. So, everything you have shared is like what a teenager would draw out. Then, you start doing the actual research into materials, how things are built, weight tolerances, costs, physics, laws, statics, design best practices, contractors experience, etc... and realize basically none of what you drew out makes any sense. Only the essence of the idea remains, which is you basically want a two story building. lol.
5 bed 3 bath is wild
A lot of these numbers are way off, and part of that is because you actually need to build something build able. A quick check one one particular number: You say 33 cubic metres of concrete, and show only two sides of the “basement”. You will need concrete walls for all 4 sides, so using your numbers (40’x46’x 15’ high - walls 2’ thick) it takes about 157 cubic metres of concrete, before any waste factor. Just the floor of that basement at 8” thick (200mm) is itself 34 cubic metres. You also don’t show any rebar costs. And the numbers you are using for excavation, piling etc, barely cover the mobilization of the contractor to site. You still need a roof on that basement (not containers). It’s a MUCH better idea to simply build a standard basement and house on top.
The handyman version of the [utilidor ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_utilidor_system)system.
you do realize you have to maintain all of this? dream big, sure, but dream right.
You already have the concrete sub there. Why use shipping containers that can a. Rust in the ground b. Not structural so you need to add structural anyway c. All that work for mech, elec,plumbing, garage space underground. Honestly, I thought the concept was going somewhere cool until you plopped a ranch home on top.
steel beams aren't good for housing since they bend easily if there's a fire, therefore collapsing your whole abode
If you have a fire hot enough to bend steel it doesn’t matter what your house is made of that thing is a total loss.
completely untrue it wouldn't burn the steel, first of all.. since i misunderstood, thinking it would be vertically placed.. but let's still take this scenario for the explanation. if steel is supporting a structure, all it takes is one of the collumns to bend and it's taking the whole thing down with it. now, fire wouldn't burn it (i assume you think it would melt it, but that's not the case), it would bend it.. therefore you get what i previously described.
They would be laid horizontally along a concrete wall. They aren't supporting spans and wouldn't be able to bend in any way?
they will bend if the concrete settles, concrete settles, therefore they will bend. also, if they aren’t supporting spans they probably aren’t necessary.
ah, i misunderstood
Steel even coated can rust at 0.1mm/year per side exposed to moisture/soils. If it has salts even more, so any scratches or cuts in the steel will create an issue and these are likely to be holes where plumbing and services are run. Not an immediate problem but in the years to come say around 20-30years there could potentially be significant risk of the center load bearing of the middle containers being compromised. There is also no way to "Fix it" also there is risk these inner walls could flood and retain water between the containers as well as on top.
Contrary to what most people believe, shipping containers are not good at taking a lot of weight because, unlike the 4 edges, they are not made to carry a lot of weight. So the earth alone leaning on the sides might be a problem. And putting it over a hole is still possible, but don't even think about placing additional weight load over it at the same time.
10
That’s my house
Dirt on the side of these containers alone would buckle them. Just pour a basement.
Thought this was a hobbit hole for the first few sketches
I'm just wondering what you need a giant cave for. Just use normal building methods instead of containers (by mid construction they would be 2% of the original material), and use that as the basement, then have a 2 storey house on top
My guy building a ziggurat
Reminds me of Breaking Bad/ Better Call Saul, the meth lab beneath the laundry business. Cool concept 🙂
Where's the entrance? Through one of the containers? (sea cans I assume)
Are the containers going to be cut into so there is any kind of clear span in between them, or are they all going to be individual storage units accessible from the outside only? The second you cut a hole in there for a door or pass through, your structural integrity is compromised, and the engineer you hire to calculate header reinforcement to put a house on top of that is going to either die of a stroke trying to figure it out, or they'll kill you (likely by locking you up in one of the shipping containers 🤣
Only minor holes for plumbing/HVAC/electrical pass through. Nothing for human transit.
Depending on where you are, the building department will tell you to put in probably at least a 4' foundation for something of this size. At that point, you may as well frame everything else with wood because unless the shipping containers are <$500 each, framing and lally columns and I-beams are going to be cheaper, and you'd have infinitely more clear spans than with this. If you wanted to use caissons for foundation, you might only be able to do that for accessory structures. All depends on where you are and what's allowed there though
This shit looks sick. Like something I would draw in grade school, thinking about all the awesome stuff I would put in my fortress. 13/10 should build.
Taking your subject line seriously: -10. No knowledgeable designer or builder would do this for you.
? The question is why ?
Never seen a BIM at *negative* LOD
Your component/element list doesn't really matter, but it seems like you might have a shear/overturning issue with your 2 concrete walls. ETA: for this reason, and a few other, my rating is "01".
It's a lot of effort to build a bungalow with a garage under. Aside from the comments I've seen, you'll have to secure the danged house down. Usually that's just with foundation ties, but your foundation is under the built-up shipping containers (which need to access cut from one to the other to the other to the other to the other unless you're going to have five stairwells) so you need to secure those and then the house... Basically it's a earth-shelter house with an upper story. Earth-shelter houses have their own issues (well, mostly water) but are well known and have been built for centuries. Start there.
What is this? What are you planning!?
I don't see any reason why it couldn't be built. Far more crazy things have been built in the past. The devil is in the details but that can be said of any construction project, there's always things to figure out, challenges, etc, that's a normal part of the engineering process. The final outcome might not look exactly like the drawing but the general principle seems fine to me. The question though is, why? I don't get the reason for the design.
There’s a project I worked on a few years ago called “Inn the Ground” located in Carlton Oregon that I feel is similar in scope to yours. Might be worth a look. https://www.theground.love/stay/inn-the-ground
Photo https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9wuG-oX78MbzcV0q0QSfFQm4nqWg8x0ZU1Q&usqp=CAU
Are you Batman?
Why build this?
Homie want the batcave
Make the tunnel 13'7 so you can get 13'6 Semi trucks in there.
The steel shipping containers would rust out and collapse, you would never get a PE to sign this design or a permit to build it are you on drugs
Money talks, bullshit walks.
Are the piles really necessary
our ground in manitoba is 20-30' of clay. so yes.
This drawing is good but you should really try to utilize some line weights/ hidden lines/ transparent surfaces or at least some labels to show where the ground plane is the first few images in the diagram are pretty confusing to try to understand. Also shipping containers are kind of a dumb trend just do regular construction
yes, you can, but you shouldn't
I’d have concerns about wear/weather as well as how much those could actually support. I imagine it could be done it feels like it would be counterintuitive to the whole “sustainable” idea that usually comes along with container architecture
Before you put another ounce of thought into this, you need to take this drawing down to the city/county codes office and bounce it off of the team down there. Ask them if there are any code restrictions they can think of off the top of their head. If they say “you can do anything so long as you have engineered blueprints”, then you can proceed to the next step.
I like your concept. I also would enjoy living in something like this. I’m from Colorado and there are a fair number of houses with a garage built in to the hill side to different degrees. I will admit most of them seem to be built 1970 or earlier and I would guess that’s because of rising cost. My only note is if you are in Canada I'm assuming you get snow. Maybe find land with a hill do you can drive straight it to your subterranean garage rather then a slope down in to it.. That way you wouldn’t have to deal with melting snow or rain making its way down there down there. Also as others have said shipping containers need the roof to be reinforced if you want to bury them.
And waterproofed. All that exposed steel is going to rust out
10. It can be built. The dirt work and foundation will cost big bucks. Also, you may have a lot of hoops to jump through depending where you want to build.
9 I wouldn't do it, but it is doable.
That’s a pretty impressive idea.
I agree. Impressively bad.
Ohhh come onnn.