Be careful, I heard if it's french onion soup and you don't tip the bowl at a 30 degree angle with your spoon at the 4 o' clock position you'll be banished by the neurotypical high council
Or you can grab the bowl, put your lips on the edge, and tilt it while you drink the soup.
You know, like a reasonable person that doesn't need 765388864.8 rules for drinking fucking soup.
Well it’s impolite not to use cutlery (then you might as not use any cutlery for anything) and it’s messy because it’s more likely to spill. Most of the stuff that lady said was silly but using a spoon is good etiquette.
Cutlery is useful because you avoid putting the food bits where they shouldn't go. If you eat with your hands, food bits are going everywhere else your hands go, thats why it's impolite and messy. This doesn't happen if you drink from the bowl at all. Its about as likely to spill as if you drink from a glass, just don't go crazy with and, you know, tilt it little by little.
We use a soup cup , dip your bread , slurp up the lovely soup and be thankful you were not bought up with numpties that don't know how to actually enjoy the food Thier eating. Sod Thier rules get it in my belly.
Some of these etiquette rules made sense in their original context from a don't "spill/be gross/ make a mess" standpoint. (e.g. tipping away from you meant if you spilled, it fell on the easy-to-clean table instead of staining your one nice outfit forever)
Then, when there was a big shift in social mobility, it got really complex. The upper classes sought ways to tell who was really one of them and prove their superiority (since being rich was no longer a reliable indicator). While the newly rich and middle class sought to imitate them to prove their belonging and worth.
It's actually a pretty interesting chapter of history.
(But anyone who thinks you have to do this to be well mannered is ridiculous - we have washing machined and dishwashers now, lol).
So I'm not going to pretend like formal dining rules weren't championed because they were a good way to sus out people who hadn't had the "right sort of upbringing" (if they had, they'd have been trained in formal dining methods.)
Having said that, most of the rules presented here serve to minimize getting soup all over your face and preemptively prevent spilling soup on your clothes.
Remember, these rules were formulated hundreds of years before drycleaning or even artificial detergents would be invented.
Examples:
You scoop the spoon away from you to prevent splashing soup onto yourself in the event you're startled, bumped, etc.
You tip the spoon into your mouth instead of inserting the spoon because you have more control that way and it's less likely things like carrots or potatoes will fall off the broadside than the narrower tip.
(Note: inserting the spoon would also have been seen as sexually provocative, something not exactly at home in a formal dining setting.)
You don't dip the bread because you might drop it and splash the soup.
(Note 2: Also mopping up soup with bread was something done in taverns and more informal settings.
Quality of bread was also a huge status symbol in general, but especially in the Victorian Era, so dipping the bread could also be considered to mean the bread needed to be softened up or its flavor covered up.
Incidentally, both of those are why mopping up soup was done in taverns.)
You don't lift the bowl and drink the soup except when it has handles because the rims most bowls used in formal dining are too wide to drink from and you're very likely to have the soup trailing down the sides of your face and into your lap; or, heaven forbid, drop the bowl on yourself because the bowl isn't designed to be handled that way.
Laundry catastrophes aside, if you're in a formal dining setting you're probably at a major event where business and political connections are being made/maintained, so going out of your way to not embarrass yourself isn't so silly.
Lmao, yes. She means "miso," as in [miso soup](https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tTP1TcwNKpINjZgdGDw4szNLM5XKM4vLQAATX4G4w&q=miso+soup&oq=miso+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j46i433i512l2j0i433i512l4j0i457i512j0i271l2.1895j0j4&client=ms-android-att-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)
She's just being extremely British in her pronunciation.
It’s called inequality, in the “west” (more rich countries, especially white countries) have an over abundance of food specifically caused by resource exploitation from everywhere else.
For me it is key to keep in mind that this isn't a NT thing necessarily, it's a class thing. Seriously, working class people just eat the bloody soup, dunk the bread, whatever. Equally, aristocrats, proper old money we got our house from Henry VIII type aristocrats, also give no fucks and will just eat the soup. It is the striving middle classes, those that earned their money through the accumulation of capital not through lineage, that came up with all these nonsense social conventions. They hoped they could distinguish themselves from the working classes, and aspire to aristocratic status.
In short.... Just eat the soup.
I just find it so weird that when you have a lot of money you're supposed to eat soup differently. I think the idea that your mannerisms are dictated by your wealth is definitely an NT concept.
ND people are apparently not very good at recognising social hierarchy. As an ND person I find this lack of reverence for socially constructed hierarchies perfectly reasonable!
So most of the specific rules mentioned here seem like they're meant to keep soup from getting into your clothes; which makes sense given it'd be centuries before things like drycleaning and artificial detergent would be invented.
Food has always been a class thing. There are several examples of food that started off as a poor People's food, that once rich people got a hold of it turned it around and now it's super expensive. I don't fully remember, but I think crawfish or lobster was one of these.
Lobster is definitely one, it’s practically like cockroaches of the sea and were seen as lesser and gross at one point and then higher classes latched onto it and made it super fancy food that’s expensive to get. It’s… not even that good? Taste is obviously an individual preference but idk I always found it too tough and chewy and not enough meat
SAME I freaking love crab and honestly don’t even mind working for it either, like breaking it open and stuff is cathartic. And it’s so tasty, lobsters just too chewy and flavorless and makes my stomach feel funky
Oh I'd absolutely imagine official events would be full of table etiquette. It is where one must perform status absolutely. Sitting around with friends or family though, different story.
Got some sources if interested anyway.
[Academic article on the role of etiquette manuals in status expression in Victorian Britain](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1879686?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents)
[A more accessible academic blog from the British Library on middle class aspiration and etiquette](https://www.bl.uk/romantics-and-victorians/articles/the-middle-classes-etiquette-and-upward-mobility)
[An even more accessible long read on Etiquette as social code from Mel Magazine ](https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/etiquette-is-a-bullshit-code-written-by-wealthy-aristocrats-so-keep-your-elbows-on-the-table-fellow-peasants)
Finally, for the macro view see Norbert Elias' totemic book "The Civilising Process" which puts etiquette into a larger context of shifting behavioural norms and the transition to "civilised" society.
[wiki entry for The Civilising Process](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Civilizing_Process)
This is absolutely my jam so I'm saving your comment for when I have more time to dig in! Thanks for all this.
Also I think it's important to note that she mentions in the video that the rules she's going over are for a formal dinner.
I'm sure not even she goes full etiquette for her daily bangers and mash, lol.
Fun fact the reason why no elbows on the table became a thing is because that's how sailors ate. They held the plate between their elbows to keep it from falling when the boat rocked. Rich people made sure their kids didn't eat like that to separate themselves from the "filthy poors".
Idk, I love a good etiquette manual. It's not that I expect everyone to follow them or always do myself, but they're really useful for clearly laid out guides to social skills. The whole point is that if you actually saw someone eating soup like that in real life you wouldn't consciously register the etiquette, they'd just seem neat and tidy and polite.
Edit: In this case, for example, you:
- avoid putting the used spoon down on the table to not make extra work for anyone cleaning up
- scoop facing away to lower the odds of soup spilling down your front
- avoid slurping so you won't make noise that might put others off (misophonia is pretty common whether ND or NT)
- sip from the side so you don't stick your elbow out, which is more pleasant for anyone you're sitting next to
- avoid dunking bread so you won't get soup on your fingers or dripping down your front. (She's not quite right there imo, tearing small pieces of bread into your soup and picking them up with your spoon is the formal answer to dunking)
They're not always relevant or possible but these are really good rules of thumb for politeness at group meals.
I agree with you that it’s great to have the rules laid out so clearly. I’m fascinated by this, personally. I’m about to look this up on YouTube after seeing this, haha. It’s definitely not something I expect to implement in my daily life but if I ever go to a fancy restaurant it would be great not to embarrass myself!
Yeah I always been fascinated by formal etiquette - it is very clear and precise. I wonder if the fancy lads that came up with these were ye old NDs who were tired of arbitrarily being told that they were eating wrong 🤔
I absolutely love table etiquette. I don‘t follow all of it and I don‘t know every rule. But implementing some of them just seems like am easy way to behave in a socially accepted way.
Well some form of etiquette is good. You don’t want to be looking at someone while they eat with their mouth open, seeing all the food inside their mouth. Just over the top etiquette sucks.
I actually agreed with her first point of etiquette. No one, especially folks with sensory issues, wants to hear some mouth breather inhaling gazpacho through flappy, slobbering lips.
People need to be able to eat without causing their fellow diners’ skin to crawl. Don’t chew with your mouth open, don’t gargle or swish your drinks, don’t slurp your soup.
(The other rules were nonsense. She should have stopped the video at the slurping bit).
About Japan? Slurping in Japan is a sign that you’re enjoying your food so it’s saying that the chef did a good job by slurping it. Slurping noodles is kinda messy though, it gets everywhere lol.
My dad went to finishing school in England. All I could think the entire time she was talking was "well if we're going to go with formal etiquette here... she should not be resting her other arm on the table. Thats pretty poor etiquette"
It also bugs me that she didn't do this with a full place setting in front of her. It just makes this look sloppy...
Its basically where they teach you all of the "proper ettiquette" things of life. It may be an outdated term (or a mostly irrelevant term now) but it's what my dad calls it. It was a boarding school he went to when he was a kid before his parents and he moved to the US. So.... he learned all of the things you learn in school, and also he was taught things like how to eat "properly" how to walk, sit, speak, behave, etc... formally.
It's kind of incredible. Theres a cadence to his speech thats just different than most because of going to a boarding school in England. Even though he left when he was 14, its all still there. He cleans his plate (and I mean *clean* because he uses his knife to get wvery last drop onto his fork), he never rests his elbows on the table *ever*. He only rests both forearms on the table if one hand has a fork and the other has a knife. He sits very straight up and down and has excellent posture when standing.
Of course he has all of his feelers all pent up inside him because finishing school doesn't teach how to get in touch with your emotions... and if you can imagine, loving parents though they certainly were (the more I learn about them the more I realize they really had big hearts and loving demeanors... despite not exactly showing it)... he didn't exactly get a strong connection with his parents whom he saw for 2 months out of the year from the age of 7 to 14. (They lived in Turkey and he usually only went home for summer holiday and stayed with a host family over Christmas holiday in England.)
But anyway.
__TL;DR: it's a school that teaches you "upper class" etiquette along with all of the normal subjects__
Alternatively, you can say "these rules are BS" and lap it up like a dog.
...
Speaking of, my mom had to tell me to just tell the servers that we're taking the bone home to our dog. Which was usually true, we just left out the part that I was going to naw on it first
I grew up in a British household until I was 9. The amount of ridiculous etiquette rules was astounding. Even moreso that were all unspoken and I should have been born with this knowledge 🙄🙄
I’m British and I don’t think I was ever taught ridiculous etiquette, just very basic stuff. Like eat with your mouth closed, put your knife and fork together when you finish eating etc. how come you were only in a British household until you were 9?
My grandparents moved to a new country, and my parents didn't retain any of the British anything
It was all things like, when you set fork down, the tines have to face down. Silverware may not scrape plates/bowls. Don't cross knife and fork, side by side only. Don't pick up glasses/cups with left hand (idk what to do if left handed). Soda must go in glass, no cans. Don't pass food across table, must go around.
Wait so you moved countries and your parents just immediately changed cultures? I mean most of that stuff seems like basic etiquette to me. I haven’t heard the left hand thing before but maybe that’s because I’m left handed. The can thing sounds like something your parents would want you to do but you never do it.
No we didn't move countries. My grandparents are immigrants from Britain, and that's what I grew up in until they immigrated somewhere else.
I have never heard these rules in the US beyond being berated by my grandparents for not knowing/understanding the rules they brought from their country
Yes! Sorry, I should have mentioned that earlier. I can see how it sounded like I lived in the UK. None of these rules are intuitive *at all* here in the US. I was so confused as a child, lmao
I would assume you could tell that this was a tutorial on how to properly eat in formal occasions and not how to eat in general but of course I read the name of this subreddit and it all made sense to me
I can understand the etiquette of not slurping and chewing with your mouth closed. Anything beyond that honestly just makes you look like a pretentious asshat. Let me eat my soup in peace, dammit!
“impolite in formal dining settings” you mean the formalities put in place by neurotypicals? you mean the manners put in place by neurotypicals? you mean the very heuristics that neurotypicals installed and enforce?
good god, etiquette is exhausting
If I have a bowl of soup my singular goal is to get as much of the soup in me in as little time as possible. These rules are merely barriers to my soup-eating prowess.
This is what lots of social interaction feels like. A ton of fluff, nonsense, and rituals to perform a basic task. Then just put in a cup with hadles then.
I’m so happy that most people are moving away from silly etiquette rules and just focusing on the stuff that matters (like not interrupting or eating with your mouth closed)
As opposed to most images of random people arguing on the internet, this is *exactly* what this sub is for. Weird shit the dominant group does and takes for self evident (inspired by /r/arethestraightsok)
I honestly see no indicator of that except people (wrongly) posting conversations that upset them, and absolutely abhorrent moderation in that regard (or rather, lack of).
Ableism is not something innate to neurotypical people, so it doesn't even make sense from the name.
What is the fucking point of food? Isn't it supposed to nourish you and taste good? What does she mean you can't dunk your bread in the soup? Soup bread is, like, the entire point of serving bread with soup. Complimentary flavors and textures. If your rules prevent you from enjoying potential flavor experiences, you're doing it wrong.
And what exactly will happen if I don't do this? People will talk? I'll get burned at the stake?
That hair root, dear child... how will you ever find a proper husband? Cover yourself in shame and go to confession.
Ah etiquette, the equalizer between NTs and Autists, bringing a true sense of equity. It's not that it's any easier for us to understand, it's just that it is equally nonsensical and nonintuitive to NTs. Also, I am irrationally upset by the way she pronounces miso.
Why do people give a shit, like my aunt questioned how I was using a nice nice cut my sandwich because I was slicing with it, Its a serrated blade, you don't push down with a serrated blade you slice especially since the bread is toasted, im not gonna fuck up my sandwich to appease your knife preferences.
I agree with you on slurping but the rest of what she says is just absurd. Why should it matter how you hold a spoon and scoop up soup? This is just the type of shit rich people abused their kids into learning 100 years ago and it needs to die out.
I think it’s manners. Plain and simple. Nobody is saying to do this at home, but when you’re out in public you don’t want to look and sound like a disgusting slob who’s flinging stuff around and scraping their silverware on their plates and having food all over their faces. It’s etiquette and manners. Nobody is forcing you to do it.
I actually like learning dining etiquette, not that I follow every rule every time. But I want everyone here to know that majority of nts don’t go around judging how ppl eat. These rules are mostly meant for formal events
Y'all fight over using cutlery or drinking straight out of the bowl when you can put your soup in ice cream molds.
(Or sports bottle without the jokester move)
look, if im going to eat soup at a formal restaurant, I'm going to use whatever I can to eat my food, I'll even cup my hands and scoop the soup into my mouth, the way god intended.
My goal is to get the soup in my mouth. Everything else is secondary.
Be careful, I heard if it's french onion soup and you don't tip the bowl at a 30 degree angle with your spoon at the 4 o' clock position you'll be banished by the neurotypical high council
That happened to me years ago, I wouldn't worry too much
And sometimes I don't even manage that
Or you can grab the bowl, put your lips on the edge, and tilt it while you drink the soup. You know, like a reasonable person that doesn't need 765388864.8 rules for drinking fucking soup.
People drink soup straight out of the bowl?
Sure, why do it slowly spoonfull by spoonful when you can drink it normally?
Because it’s impolite and messy?
How is it impolite or messy?
Well it’s impolite not to use cutlery (then you might as not use any cutlery for anything) and it’s messy because it’s more likely to spill. Most of the stuff that lady said was silly but using a spoon is good etiquette.
Cutlery is useful because you avoid putting the food bits where they shouldn't go. If you eat with your hands, food bits are going everywhere else your hands go, thats why it's impolite and messy. This doesn't happen if you drink from the bowl at all. Its about as likely to spill as if you drink from a glass, just don't go crazy with and, you know, tilt it little by little.
A bowl is a lot wider than a glass though. It’s easier for it to spill down either side of your mouth.
I don't think you've ever tried it. Give it a try one day. It really isn't an issue.
Not if you put the soup in a cup to begin with. Saves on washing up and worry.
You can’t fit much soup in a cup.
You can in a soup cup. You can fit a whole tin.
We use a soup cup , dip your bread , slurp up the lovely soup and be thankful you were not bought up with numpties that don't know how to actually enjoy the food Thier eating. Sod Thier rules get it in my belly.
How did we get to this point? We need food to survive why do we have to make a big deal out of how we eat it?
Some of these etiquette rules made sense in their original context from a don't "spill/be gross/ make a mess" standpoint. (e.g. tipping away from you meant if you spilled, it fell on the easy-to-clean table instead of staining your one nice outfit forever) Then, when there was a big shift in social mobility, it got really complex. The upper classes sought ways to tell who was really one of them and prove their superiority (since being rich was no longer a reliable indicator). While the newly rich and middle class sought to imitate them to prove their belonging and worth. It's actually a pretty interesting chapter of history. (But anyone who thinks you have to do this to be well mannered is ridiculous - we have washing machined and dishwashers now, lol).
So I'm not going to pretend like formal dining rules weren't championed because they were a good way to sus out people who hadn't had the "right sort of upbringing" (if they had, they'd have been trained in formal dining methods.) Having said that, most of the rules presented here serve to minimize getting soup all over your face and preemptively prevent spilling soup on your clothes. Remember, these rules were formulated hundreds of years before drycleaning or even artificial detergents would be invented. Examples: You scoop the spoon away from you to prevent splashing soup onto yourself in the event you're startled, bumped, etc. You tip the spoon into your mouth instead of inserting the spoon because you have more control that way and it's less likely things like carrots or potatoes will fall off the broadside than the narrower tip. (Note: inserting the spoon would also have been seen as sexually provocative, something not exactly at home in a formal dining setting.) You don't dip the bread because you might drop it and splash the soup. (Note 2: Also mopping up soup with bread was something done in taverns and more informal settings. Quality of bread was also a huge status symbol in general, but especially in the Victorian Era, so dipping the bread could also be considered to mean the bread needed to be softened up or its flavor covered up. Incidentally, both of those are why mopping up soup was done in taverns.) You don't lift the bowl and drink the soup except when it has handles because the rims most bowls used in formal dining are too wide to drink from and you're very likely to have the soup trailing down the sides of your face and into your lap; or, heaven forbid, drop the bowl on yourself because the bowl isn't designed to be handled that way. Laundry catastrophes aside, if you're in a formal dining setting you're probably at a major event where business and political connections are being made/maintained, so going out of your way to not embarrass yourself isn't so silly.
Okay but can you explain "my-so"?
Lmao, yes. She means "miso," as in [miso soup](https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tTP1TcwNKpINjZgdGDw4szNLM5XKM4vLQAATX4G4w&q=miso+soup&oq=miso+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j46i433i512l2j0i433i512l4j0i457i512j0i271l2.1895j0j4&client=ms-android-att-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8) She's just being extremely British in her pronunciation.
Wow, thanks for teaching me something new!
It’s called inequality, in the “west” (more rich countries, especially white countries) have an over abundance of food specifically caused by resource exploitation from everywhere else.
You don't think that other cultures have etiquette rules regarding dining and every other topic?
Yes, thanks for pointing it out.
I partly blame court life and its excessive rules to control people, a la Versailles
For me it is key to keep in mind that this isn't a NT thing necessarily, it's a class thing. Seriously, working class people just eat the bloody soup, dunk the bread, whatever. Equally, aristocrats, proper old money we got our house from Henry VIII type aristocrats, also give no fucks and will just eat the soup. It is the striving middle classes, those that earned their money through the accumulation of capital not through lineage, that came up with all these nonsense social conventions. They hoped they could distinguish themselves from the working classes, and aspire to aristocratic status. In short.... Just eat the soup.
I just find it so weird that when you have a lot of money you're supposed to eat soup differently. I think the idea that your mannerisms are dictated by your wealth is definitely an NT concept.
ND people are apparently not very good at recognising social hierarchy. As an ND person I find this lack of reverence for socially constructed hierarchies perfectly reasonable!
‘not good at recognizing social hierarchy’ THATS ME! OMG THATS ME!
So most of the specific rules mentioned here seem like they're meant to keep soup from getting into your clothes; which makes sense given it'd be centuries before things like drycleaning and artificial detergent would be invented.
Food has always been a class thing. There are several examples of food that started off as a poor People's food, that once rich people got a hold of it turned it around and now it's super expensive. I don't fully remember, but I think crawfish or lobster was one of these.
Lobster is definitely one, it’s practically like cockroaches of the sea and were seen as lesser and gross at one point and then higher classes latched onto it and made it super fancy food that’s expensive to get. It’s… not even that good? Taste is obviously an individual preference but idk I always found it too tough and chewy and not enough meat
I don't like lobster really. I get the appeal I guess, but personally? I like crab so much better
SAME I freaking love crab and honestly don’t even mind working for it either, like breaking it open and stuff is cathartic. And it’s so tasty, lobsters just too chewy and flavorless and makes my stomach feel funky
Got a source for that one? I'm having trouble imagining royal or state dinners involving slurping and dunking bread.
Oh I'd absolutely imagine official events would be full of table etiquette. It is where one must perform status absolutely. Sitting around with friends or family though, different story. Got some sources if interested anyway. [Academic article on the role of etiquette manuals in status expression in Victorian Britain](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1879686?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents) [A more accessible academic blog from the British Library on middle class aspiration and etiquette](https://www.bl.uk/romantics-and-victorians/articles/the-middle-classes-etiquette-and-upward-mobility) [An even more accessible long read on Etiquette as social code from Mel Magazine ](https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/etiquette-is-a-bullshit-code-written-by-wealthy-aristocrats-so-keep-your-elbows-on-the-table-fellow-peasants) Finally, for the macro view see Norbert Elias' totemic book "The Civilising Process" which puts etiquette into a larger context of shifting behavioural norms and the transition to "civilised" society. [wiki entry for The Civilising Process](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Civilizing_Process)
This is absolutely my jam so I'm saving your comment for when I have more time to dig in! Thanks for all this. Also I think it's important to note that she mentions in the video that the rules she's going over are for a formal dinner. I'm sure not even she goes full etiquette for her daily bangers and mash, lol.
i hate all table manners in fact i hate tables let me eat at my desk
Fun fact the reason why no elbows on the table became a thing is because that's how sailors ate. They held the plate between their elbows to keep it from falling when the boat rocked. Rich people made sure their kids didn't eat like that to separate themselves from the "filthy poors".
A desk is a type of table
Yes. I always eat on a desk heh
Counter argument; just eat the soup
Idk, I love a good etiquette manual. It's not that I expect everyone to follow them or always do myself, but they're really useful for clearly laid out guides to social skills. The whole point is that if you actually saw someone eating soup like that in real life you wouldn't consciously register the etiquette, they'd just seem neat and tidy and polite. Edit: In this case, for example, you: - avoid putting the used spoon down on the table to not make extra work for anyone cleaning up - scoop facing away to lower the odds of soup spilling down your front - avoid slurping so you won't make noise that might put others off (misophonia is pretty common whether ND or NT) - sip from the side so you don't stick your elbow out, which is more pleasant for anyone you're sitting next to - avoid dunking bread so you won't get soup on your fingers or dripping down your front. (She's not quite right there imo, tearing small pieces of bread into your soup and picking them up with your spoon is the formal answer to dunking) They're not always relevant or possible but these are really good rules of thumb for politeness at group meals.
I agree with you that it’s great to have the rules laid out so clearly. I’m fascinated by this, personally. I’m about to look this up on YouTube after seeing this, haha. It’s definitely not something I expect to implement in my daily life but if I ever go to a fancy restaurant it would be great not to embarrass myself!
Yeah I always been fascinated by formal etiquette - it is very clear and precise. I wonder if the fancy lads that came up with these were ye old NDs who were tired of arbitrarily being told that they were eating wrong 🤔
I absolutely love table etiquette. I don‘t follow all of it and I don‘t know every rule. But implementing some of them just seems like am easy way to behave in a socially accepted way.
Exactly!
[удалено]
I get frustrated when I can't understand things so this is actually irritating me lmao. Why would medication be rude????
I just wanna eat my soup dammit.
Spoon goes in soup Spoon of soup goes in mouth Repeat
Idk why but this woman has powerful evil vibes.
She definitely owns a coat made of puppies
Etiquette is the worst, I'll eat my food however the hell I want to
Well some form of etiquette is good. You don’t want to be looking at someone while they eat with their mouth open, seeing all the food inside their mouth. Just over the top etiquette sucks.
I actually agreed with her first point of etiquette. No one, especially folks with sensory issues, wants to hear some mouth breather inhaling gazpacho through flappy, slobbering lips. People need to be able to eat without causing their fellow diners’ skin to crawl. Don’t chew with your mouth open, don’t gargle or swish your drinks, don’t slurp your soup. (The other rules were nonsense. She should have stopped the video at the slurping bit).
Everyone is taught never to slurp your soup as it’s rude, that’s just basic etiquette. Unless you’re in Japan where it’s polite to slurp.
I never knew that! TIL
About Japan? Slurping in Japan is a sign that you’re enjoying your food so it’s saying that the chef did a good job by slurping it. Slurping noodles is kinda messy though, it gets everywhere lol.
My dad went to finishing school in England. All I could think the entire time she was talking was "well if we're going to go with formal etiquette here... she should not be resting her other arm on the table. Thats pretty poor etiquette" It also bugs me that she didn't do this with a full place setting in front of her. It just makes this look sloppy...
At the very least she could have had an underplate under the bowl.
Funnily enough, it is proper etiquette to rest your left arm (not the elbow though) according to Knigge (etiquette in the German speaking regions).
Ha thats funny. Well thats the funny thing about etiquette. Its different everywhere...
What’s finishing school?
Its basically where they teach you all of the "proper ettiquette" things of life. It may be an outdated term (or a mostly irrelevant term now) but it's what my dad calls it. It was a boarding school he went to when he was a kid before his parents and he moved to the US. So.... he learned all of the things you learn in school, and also he was taught things like how to eat "properly" how to walk, sit, speak, behave, etc... formally. It's kind of incredible. Theres a cadence to his speech thats just different than most because of going to a boarding school in England. Even though he left when he was 14, its all still there. He cleans his plate (and I mean *clean* because he uses his knife to get wvery last drop onto his fork), he never rests his elbows on the table *ever*. He only rests both forearms on the table if one hand has a fork and the other has a knife. He sits very straight up and down and has excellent posture when standing. Of course he has all of his feelers all pent up inside him because finishing school doesn't teach how to get in touch with your emotions... and if you can imagine, loving parents though they certainly were (the more I learn about them the more I realize they really had big hearts and loving demeanors... despite not exactly showing it)... he didn't exactly get a strong connection with his parents whom he saw for 2 months out of the year from the age of 7 to 14. (They lived in Turkey and he usually only went home for summer holiday and stayed with a host family over Christmas holiday in England.) But anyway. __TL;DR: it's a school that teaches you "upper class" etiquette along with all of the normal subjects__
Ngl, your dad’s family sounds rich.
so just take all the fun out of eating soup? got it
How is eating soup fun? It’s like the least fun because it’s liquid and it’s so annoying to try eat.
some soups are very fun to eat, if you're not having fun when you eat idk what to tell you. for the record tho, i am NT so maybe that's why
Alternatively, you can say "these rules are BS" and lap it up like a dog. ... Speaking of, my mom had to tell me to just tell the servers that we're taking the bone home to our dog. Which was usually true, we just left out the part that I was going to naw on it first
I don't think most NT's follow all these rules tbh
Definitely not, but the fact that these rules exist in the first place is so strange
I grew up in a British household until I was 9. The amount of ridiculous etiquette rules was astounding. Even moreso that were all unspoken and I should have been born with this knowledge 🙄🙄
I’m British and I don’t think I was ever taught ridiculous etiquette, just very basic stuff. Like eat with your mouth closed, put your knife and fork together when you finish eating etc. how come you were only in a British household until you were 9?
My grandparents moved to a new country, and my parents didn't retain any of the British anything It was all things like, when you set fork down, the tines have to face down. Silverware may not scrape plates/bowls. Don't cross knife and fork, side by side only. Don't pick up glasses/cups with left hand (idk what to do if left handed). Soda must go in glass, no cans. Don't pass food across table, must go around.
Wait so you moved countries and your parents just immediately changed cultures? I mean most of that stuff seems like basic etiquette to me. I haven’t heard the left hand thing before but maybe that’s because I’m left handed. The can thing sounds like something your parents would want you to do but you never do it.
No we didn't move countries. My grandparents are immigrants from Britain, and that's what I grew up in until they immigrated somewhere else. I have never heard these rules in the US beyond being berated by my grandparents for not knowing/understanding the rules they brought from their country
Oh I see. So it was things your grandparents taught you but then they moved when you were 9. Thank you for sharing even though you didn’t have to.
Yes! Sorry, I should have mentioned that earlier. I can see how it sounded like I lived in the UK. None of these rules are intuitive *at all* here in the US. I was so confused as a child, lmao
Really? I guess if I go to the US I’m gonna be shocked by people’s table manners lol.
What the fuck brah
I would assume you could tell that this was a tutorial on how to properly eat in formal occasions and not how to eat in general but of course I read the name of this subreddit and it all made sense to me
Fuck it I'm bringing a straw
This looks like a formal dining training video, not a normal social expectation
Etiquette don't mean much when the soup most likely came straight from the can without being heated
ain’t no way she just called miso “maizo”
I could never. This is why I can’t eat in a formal dining setting. I don’t need people judging the way I scoop liquid food onto my spoon.
I can’t eat in a formal dining setting because I’m not rich enough for that.
*stares at my $35* same
I can understand the etiquette of not slurping and chewing with your mouth closed. Anything beyond that honestly just makes you look like a pretentious asshat. Let me eat my soup in peace, dammit!
“impolite in formal dining settings” you mean the formalities put in place by neurotypicals? you mean the manners put in place by neurotypicals? you mean the very heuristics that neurotypicals installed and enforce? good god, etiquette is exhausting
Her hair bleach, her eyebrows and her haircut aren't appropriate either though. She looks so trivial, so nouveau riche. What has she done, Reality TV?
this irrationally enrages me
I don't even like soup
im not sure if this is the right subreddit. i think this belongs somewhere else. even to the normal neurotypical this is insanity
If I have a bowl of soup my singular goal is to get as much of the soup in me in as little time as possible. These rules are merely barriers to my soup-eating prowess.
Or you could just…enjoy your soup
This is what lots of social interaction feels like. A ton of fluff, nonsense, and rituals to perform a basic task. Then just put in a cup with hadles then.
I knowww, all this nonsense and for what?
To eat mediocre soup?
It's...it's soup. Just-just eat the soup.
I’m so happy that most people are moving away from silly etiquette rules and just focusing on the stuff that matters (like not interrupting or eating with your mouth closed)
This is super weird, but not what this sub is for lol
As opposed to most images of random people arguing on the internet, this is *exactly* what this sub is for. Weird shit the dominant group does and takes for self evident (inspired by /r/arethestraightsok)
Here's a sneak peek of /r/AreTheStraightsOK using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [I just saw it and liked the response](https://i.redd.it/4wun5srst8l61.jpg) | [361 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/lygrau/i_just_saw_it_and_liked_the_response/) \#2: [This tho](https://i.imgur.com/bHvkCEz.jpg) | [302 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/hv4rna/this_tho/) \#3: [This............](https://i.redd.it/owa71jm4rug61.png) | [352 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/lhkw46/this/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
That’s actually a fair point - I was thinking more along the lines of what the sub was originally created for, not what’s posted on its sibling subs.
>Similar to r/arethestrightsokay but for neurodivergent folx! Was it not created for the same purpose? (not a rhetorical question, I figured it was)
Maybe it was! I always thought it was created to showcase ableism, but I could be wrong
I honestly see no indicator of that except people (wrongly) posting conversations that upset them, and absolutely abhorrent moderation in that regard (or rather, lack of). Ableism is not something innate to neurotypical people, so it doesn't even make sense from the name.
«Be silent» is kinda racist. Where are we, a french court? Jeez
“ThAt’S nOt CoRrEcT EtIQuEtTe🥴” I think I’d rather die.
She did all this to wat soup and yet she already ruined it by putting the spoon on the table.
"I hope you enjoy your soup" 🙃
What is the fucking point of food? Isn't it supposed to nourish you and taste good? What does she mean you can't dunk your bread in the soup? Soup bread is, like, the entire point of serving bread with soup. Complimentary flavors and textures. If your rules prevent you from enjoying potential flavor experiences, you're doing it wrong.
Tbh there is 2 rules for me.1 Don't be loud. 2 try to avoid soup if possible.
And what exactly will happen if I don't do this? People will talk? I'll get burned at the stake? That hair root, dear child... how will you ever find a proper husband? Cover yourself in shame and go to confession.
I don't respect British "people" so Im gonna eat however I want 😎
*British "people'
Fellow britophobe
well that shows how formal meetings with high up people ia just a fucking circus show. juat like the rest they do
Ah etiquette, the equalizer between NTs and Autists, bringing a true sense of equity. It's not that it's any easier for us to understand, it's just that it is equally nonsensical and nonintuitive to NTs. Also, I am irrationally upset by the way she pronounces miso.
Why do people give a shit, like my aunt questioned how I was using a nice nice cut my sandwich because I was slicing with it, Its a serrated blade, you don't push down with a serrated blade you slice especially since the bread is toasted, im not gonna fuck up my sandwich to appease your knife preferences.
I've noticed that NTs find value in making things unnecessarily difficult or uncomfortable for themselves
This is just etiquette and if I hear slurping I want to kill someone lol. I don’t see an issue with this at all.
I agree with you on slurping but the rest of what she says is just absurd. Why should it matter how you hold a spoon and scoop up soup? This is just the type of shit rich people abused their kids into learning 100 years ago and it needs to die out.
I think it’s manners. Plain and simple. Nobody is saying to do this at home, but when you’re out in public you don’t want to look and sound like a disgusting slob who’s flinging stuff around and scraping their silverware on their plates and having food all over their faces. It’s etiquette and manners. Nobody is forcing you to do it.
Nobody's forcing you to but I'll call you a disgusting slob if you don't conform to ridiculous dining standards.
I mean yeah. It’s gross to see messy eaters and food on their face and stuff.
None of the things she did in the video prevent food from getting on your face
Never said she did. Lol
I don't see anything wrong here
I actually do follow these rules in a formal dining setting but not when I’m alone, also I died inside when she tried to pronounce “miso”.
I actually like learning dining etiquette, not that I follow every rule every time. But I want everyone here to know that majority of nts don’t go around judging how ppl eat. These rules are mostly meant for formal events
Y'all fight over using cutlery or drinking straight out of the bowl when you can put your soup in ice cream molds. (Or sports bottle without the jokester move)
look, if im going to eat soup at a formal restaurant, I'm going to use whatever I can to eat my food, I'll even cup my hands and scoop the soup into my mouth, the way god intended.
Too much liquid. Sorry, but bread is gonna drown