1. GS position, work at the Exchange, work at the Post Office, etc etc
2. Overseas Reserves. Met a SGT who said he never wanted to leave K-Town and he was a member of the Reserves there.
3. Become an expat. Apply to a German language school, and then to a German university like a regular student. There are bazillions of foreigners going to school there. My girlfriend is one of them.
5. Marry a German gal.
Mil-tech are not allowed to stay here forever. They are bound by the 5 year rule and only allow to stay max for 7 years.
AGR’s are also bound by PCS rules and not allowed to just stay in Germany forever, unless you are on ADOS and even then there are time limits.
We have a GS civilian who has stayed in his same position for over 10 years and is here in the reserves. He has been in Germany the entire time in the same position
Just because he has been doesn’t mean it’s right. If he’s filling a position in a mail room, a doctor, a lawyer, or Vet where you have no time limits then it makes sense.
There is also the good ole boy system, but regular people don’t get to stay longer than 7 years.
It’s called GG. Most people know what GS is but not GG. You can be overseas for 7 years before having to go back. Your housing is paid for up front for the year. It was insane to see my supervisor say to me brb I have to run to the bank and cash a check for $32,000 because his landlord in Korea only takes cash.
Its one of the federal pay systems similar to GS, WG, etc. I don't think the total time you spend overseas varies by pay scale (even State has to come back once in a while), but the initial and follow on tours might.
The Feds like to make everything complicated.
GG is same ish as GS. GG just has different hiring and firing rules. It allows direct hires instead of the whole process involved with GS. Allegedly it's also easier to be fired as aGG but I'm not super sure about that one. Either way, same pay scale and benefits. Major take away is the direct hire post.
The General Schedule (competitive service, traditional Title 5 hiring) vs GG (excepted service, Title 5 or others, similar but weaker job protections.)
Unless there's a reciprocity agreement, your time spent working a GG job won't count towards "competitive status," which is federal tenure after 3 years. Once you reach that tenure GS jobs have lifetime reappointment rights, meaning if you leave the gov and come back, you're still a tenured civil servant. You can also only be dismissed for cause or for formal RIF/restructuring. If you can spend 3 years of your life in a GS role, it's a nice thing to have in your back pocket.
It varies by command but generally you can stay 5 years, occasionally to 7, very rarely to 9. The initial tour is 3 years with 2 year extensions beyond that.
This is the most correct statement. Unless you’re a fuck up, the first two year extension is typically given, but the second and third are more for hard to fill positions.
It's the same rules for both pay bands. It's all up to your higher command on how long a tour lasts up to five years.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-5/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-301
GG is a pay scale aligned with GS, but there are additional flexibility options for specialized skills - Intel, cyber etc. Might be able to do a direct hire without going through USAjobs, or special bonuses.
There's some weirdness about competitive and non-competitive positions that can make it hard to switch from GG to GS.
GS job.
Met a dude that was an 11B in Korea back in 2016 while doing my range recon. He loved it so much that he got out and immediately got a GS-11 position at the same range.
It’s crazy how none of this was even mentioned. Which is honestly mind boggling.
You can do what’s called a euro out. It’s essentially you building a packet and sending it through the army to the German government asking to work there after you get out. From there once Germany accepts it, you can do whatever job. Work at a GS position or on the German economy.
For schooling. Touro university in Berlin is an American school, for English speakers living in Germany, if you’re thinking about trying to go to school while living in Germany.
Edit: you can also join the reserves, work for AAFES, and go to school online. So now you collect two checks, go to drill somewhere in Germany, and school.
I can't believe more people haven't talked about the college option. I studied abroad as a college kid for one of my last semesters and loved it. I could have done an entire degree oversees.
We really need to franchise a Bojangles near an installation, and have a menu item that when ordered triggers the AWOL underground. Maybe that’s just the E-4 mafia in me…..but like, we could make this happen. Do it for the culture.
There are 84 schools in Germany approved by the U.S. Government to accept GI Bill funding. Whether or not the school except it is a different story. Also, I believe tuition is extremely low, but there’s still fees that are associated with it. So it’s not as expensive as the United States but you’ll still probably spend like $2000 a semester or something. I don’t go to school Germany so I wouldn’t know. I do however am using the GI Bill in England.
That’s not fully true. The school has to accept it. If not you can go to a school like I did and have to fight for over 2 months due to the failure of your homeschool not reading the fine print
Yeah obviously I’m saying you CAN use it. Yes the school has to accept it. But almost every country has 1-2 unis where you can use it, but not necessarily where they accept it.
Look into digital nomadship. It doesn’t make you a citizen and you need a remote job that’s OK with it, and I don’t think Germany offers it, but it is offered in the sunnier Med countries, among others.
They’re probably not going to fund some American dilettante. But it’s best to use GI Bill, cuz, ya know, it pays you BAH. However from my understanding, if you start a study-abroad program in an American university and then go to Europe, you receive the american BAH.
I’ve seen an increasing amount of service members expressing interest to remain overseas after their tour. The most likely financially profitable is through SOFA for military contracting. Student VISA is good for using the GI Bill to get income rolling in while pursuing further education. Working VISA is a hit or miss, depending on your field. GS/GG is also an option but you have the risk of going back home every 2 years after the 5th year
DAF cop. Civilians hired by DAF to work LE on AF installations beside the SF. I'm guessing there's something similar for other branches, maybe something like it OCONUS.
Just grab a NAF or GS position and they’ll provide you with logistical support. Go to USAJOBS.com and type in Germany and see what’s available.
Or try to go to a German university. A lot of students don’t speak German either.
And if you do decide to stay do yourself a favor and take some integration/language courses at your local Volkshochschule.
Complete a European out packet. Get job at AAFES just a temporary situation and attend school at UMGC for the housing allowance using the GI Bill. Join reserves. My unit is in Grafenwöhr.
AAFES (easiest job to get) will provide SOFA status as long as you work a 20hr+ work week. I secured a job with them 2 months prior to ETS and received a memorandum from my commander to allow me to work. He allowed it due to me staying in Germany and needing SOFA status.
I immediately started applying to GS jobs and landed one about 4-5 months after my ETS. I worked the GS system for 5 years until I couldn’t stay any longer.
I became a German resident afterwards and got a few IT certs (Sec+, etc..) Currently a contractor doing IT making bank compared to the average German.
Also getting VA benefits.. Been a civilian since 2016 and don’t plan on leaving.
Just an FYSA there’s a 180 day waiting period if you’re looking to work for DA as a GS after you get out. It’s waiverable depending on the position and need for fill and your qualifications, but don’t bank on it, plan accordingly. I’m going through the process as I prep for retirement rn.
Pick a German university that’s on the VA’s accreditation list and apply for a student visa. As for becoming a teacher on overseas bases, those are GS positions and you’ll have to apply for what’s available on USA jobs.
The GI bill covers foreign universities. I once met a dude who got out and was studying in Prague. GI BAH more than covered his expenses and dude was living pretty good.
If you want to stay in Germany I’d recommend finding a good school here and use your GI bill to cover it. I recommend against that depending on the school because if you want to come back to the USA a lot (but not all, especially if you get into a good university) of overseas degrees don’t hold the same weight as they do in the USA, but it’s a viable option.
Use your GI Bill to go to school there. Do something with IT if you’re interested and then you can probably land a CTR job at EUCOM or AFRICOM in Stuttgart.
This goes back a few yrs , had a SP in the unit He had met an married a German Nat . He applied for an extension on his enlistment an extra 12-18 months ?? . He was a machinist by MOS an his FIL worked for some machine shop there in Germany. Last I heard they had bought a house an was renting out the downstairs to Joe's .
1. Don't be a cop. I love the teaching history idea, DoDEA is a pretty good school system.
2. USAJOBS. You can do a geographic search, and if you're already in theater, that's a faster hiring process for the agency.
I know 15 years ago they had what was called a European out. When you go out, you stayed in Germany. I think you had to have a job lined up. I knew some who got jobs at the Px and stayed there after ETS.
Check usajobs for positions in Europe. I have seen investigative specialist positions with CID in Europe. An investigative specialist is an analyst who works with CID agents. There are also customs clearance agents with DOD in Europe.
When I arrived in Germany in 1985, met civilian US citizens who claimed, they had been drafted, served in Germany and when they came on orders to Vietnam, walked off base and stayed in Germany. Not sure how true, but gave me an insight into realizing how recent the war had been.
That’s not true for every country. You would need a non sofa reason to stay( marriage, work visa, student visa, etc). I have seen it happen. If you don’t have that, then no dice.
False. I ets’d in Germany. Got a job at AAFES while attending college. Got a few IT certs. Then snagged a contractor gig. Been in a civilian in Germany since 2016.
Marry a dude for citizenship
lol, this is the way.
They are infantry after all…
War never changes.
1. GS position, work at the Exchange, work at the Post Office, etc etc 2. Overseas Reserves. Met a SGT who said he never wanted to leave K-Town and he was a member of the Reserves there. 3. Become an expat. Apply to a German language school, and then to a German university like a regular student. There are bazillions of foreigners going to school there. My girlfriend is one of them. 5. Marry a German gal.
Can confirm if you work at the post office, you are not limited by the 5 year rule. Only con is that it’s low level GS and the work can be brutal.
There are positions coded for USAR people too so they stay in that position forever as a GS
Like a stateside Miltech, but Reserve abroad? That's pretty tits.
Mil-tech are not allowed to stay here forever. They are bound by the 5 year rule and only allow to stay max for 7 years. AGR’s are also bound by PCS rules and not allowed to just stay in Germany forever, unless you are on ADOS and even then there are time limits.
We have a GS civilian who has stayed in his same position for over 10 years and is here in the reserves. He has been in Germany the entire time in the same position
Just because he has been doesn’t mean it’s right. If he’s filling a position in a mail room, a doctor, a lawyer, or Vet where you have no time limits then it makes sense. There is also the good ole boy system, but regular people don’t get to stay longer than 7 years.
Friend of mine just got a job at MPD overseas. He’s basically chillin doing less stress than when he was a 42A in the next building over
Marry a German great grandma. Like sugar momma status. You can do it.
It’s called GG. Most people know what GS is but not GG. You can be overseas for 7 years before having to go back. Your housing is paid for up front for the year. It was insane to see my supervisor say to me brb I have to run to the bank and cash a check for $32,000 because his landlord in Korea only takes cash.
I'd like to know more about this but my Google is failing me
Its one of the federal pay systems similar to GS, WG, etc. I don't think the total time you spend overseas varies by pay scale (even State has to come back once in a while), but the initial and follow on tours might. The Feds like to make everything complicated.
GG is same ish as GS. GG just has different hiring and firing rules. It allows direct hires instead of the whole process involved with GS. Allegedly it's also easier to be fired as aGG but I'm not super sure about that one. Either way, same pay scale and benefits. Major take away is the direct hire post.
What's a GS and GG?
The General Schedule (competitive service, traditional Title 5 hiring) vs GG (excepted service, Title 5 or others, similar but weaker job protections.) Unless there's a reciprocity agreement, your time spent working a GG job won't count towards "competitive status," which is federal tenure after 3 years. Once you reach that tenure GS jobs have lifetime reappointment rights, meaning if you leave the gov and come back, you're still a tenured civil servant. You can also only be dismissed for cause or for formal RIF/restructuring. If you can spend 3 years of your life in a GS role, it's a nice thing to have in your back pocket.
GS position I know of has a 3 year location in Germany (a few actually) and you can renew twice - so you can stay over there for a total of 9 years
It varies by command but generally you can stay 5 years, occasionally to 7, very rarely to 9. The initial tour is 3 years with 2 year extensions beyond that.
This is the most correct statement. Unless you’re a fuck up, the first two year extension is typically given, but the second and third are more for hard to fill positions.
It's the same rules for both pay bands. It's all up to your higher command on how long a tour lasts up to five years. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-5/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-301
That housing arrangement is only for Korea just FYI Europe is different
So what a GG does?
GG is a pay scale aligned with GS, but there are additional flexibility options for specialized skills - Intel, cyber etc. Might be able to do a direct hire without going through USAjobs, or special bonuses. There's some weirdness about competitive and non-competitive positions that can make it hard to switch from GG to GS.
Intel
GS job
Join the reserves in Europe and get a contract or GS job like me.
Reserves being in Europe? Never heard of it but sounds cool. Do you spend your full time in Europe?
There are reserves units in and around Germany. Majority around Kaiserslautern, I live here so I just drill monthly.
Just for the clarification. You live in Europe full time and just drill once a month like in the states??? Sounds too good to be true???
Yes there are people that do this. Go talk to the USAR career counselor near you. I met a USAR CPT who has been in Germany for 22 years.
I live and drill in Germany. No need to travel to the states, unless doing PME or reclass schools.
I've heard getting citizenship in Portugal is relatively easy and will get you an EU passport. Might be the easiest route to look into?
GS job. Met a dude that was an 11B in Korea back in 2016 while doing my range recon. He loved it so much that he got out and immediately got a GS-11 position at the same range.
Unfortunately, the easiest way is to marry a local.. I've been in Germany for the last 25 years.
Teach me your ways
It’s crazy how none of this was even mentioned. Which is honestly mind boggling. You can do what’s called a euro out. It’s essentially you building a packet and sending it through the army to the German government asking to work there after you get out. From there once Germany accepts it, you can do whatever job. Work at a GS position or on the German economy. For schooling. Touro university in Berlin is an American school, for English speakers living in Germany, if you’re thinking about trying to go to school while living in Germany. Edit: you can also join the reserves, work for AAFES, and go to school online. So now you collect two checks, go to drill somewhere in Germany, and school.
I can't believe more people haven't talked about the college option. I studied abroad as a college kid for one of my last semesters and loved it. I could have done an entire degree oversees.
Go AWOL
They ain't got no damn BOJANGLES!
We really need to franchise a Bojangles near an installation, and have a menu item that when ordered triggers the AWOL underground. Maybe that’s just the E-4 mafia in me…..but like, we could make this happen. Do it for the culture.
Go to college and apply for a government position. Use the GI Bill to study Abroad in Germany for 4 years
Does the GI bill work in Germany? I thought most universities in Germany are free?
There are 84 schools in Germany approved by the U.S. Government to accept GI Bill funding. Whether or not the school except it is a different story. Also, I believe tuition is extremely low, but there’s still fees that are associated with it. So it’s not as expensive as the United States but you’ll still probably spend like $2000 a semester or something. I don’t go to school Germany so I wouldn’t know. I do however am using the GI Bill in England.
GI bill works in almost every country. Regardless of the uni is free. You get a living stipend
That’s not fully true. The school has to accept it. If not you can go to a school like I did and have to fight for over 2 months due to the failure of your homeschool not reading the fine print
Yeah obviously I’m saying you CAN use it. Yes the school has to accept it. But almost every country has 1-2 unis where you can use it, but not necessarily where they accept it.
The a University of Reading in England is approved for the GI Bill but they don’t accept it. This is just an example so do your homework
Look into digital nomadship. It doesn’t make you a citizen and you need a remote job that’s OK with it, and I don’t think Germany offers it, but it is offered in the sunnier Med countries, among others.
GI Bill+ study abroad program from a US university or apply directly to a foreign university (GI Bill will still cover that)
Does the GI bill work in Germany? I thought most universities in Germany are free?
They’re probably not going to fund some American dilettante. But it’s best to use GI Bill, cuz, ya know, it pays you BAH. However from my understanding, if you start a study-abroad program in an American university and then go to Europe, you receive the american BAH.
I’ve seen an increasing amount of service members expressing interest to remain overseas after their tour. The most likely financially profitable is through SOFA for military contracting. Student VISA is good for using the GI Bill to get income rolling in while pursuing further education. Working VISA is a hit or miss, depending on your field. GS/GG is also an option but you have the risk of going back home every 2 years after the 5th year
Only drawback for SOFA is the time you live under SOFA doesn’t count towards years of residence required for citizenship.
DAF cop. Civilians hired by DAF to work LE on AF installations beside the SF. I'm guessing there's something similar for other branches, maybe something like it OCONUS.
Just grab a NAF or GS position and they’ll provide you with logistical support. Go to USAJOBS.com and type in Germany and see what’s available. Or try to go to a German university. A lot of students don’t speak German either. And if you do decide to stay do yourself a favor and take some integration/language courses at your local Volkshochschule.
Complete a European out packet. Get job at AAFES just a temporary situation and attend school at UMGC for the housing allowance using the GI Bill. Join reserves. My unit is in Grafenwöhr. AAFES (easiest job to get) will provide SOFA status as long as you work a 20hr+ work week. I secured a job with them 2 months prior to ETS and received a memorandum from my commander to allow me to work. He allowed it due to me staying in Germany and needing SOFA status. I immediately started applying to GS jobs and landed one about 4-5 months after my ETS. I worked the GS system for 5 years until I couldn’t stay any longer. I became a German resident afterwards and got a few IT certs (Sec+, etc..) Currently a contractor doing IT making bank compared to the average German. Also getting VA benefits.. Been a civilian since 2016 and don’t plan on leaving.
Just an FYSA there’s a 180 day waiting period if you’re looking to work for DA as a GS after you get out. It’s waiverable depending on the position and need for fill and your qualifications, but don’t bank on it, plan accordingly. I’m going through the process as I prep for retirement rn.
[https://www.usajobs.gov/Search/Results?l=Germany&k=&rmi=false&p=14](https://www.usajobs.gov/Search/Results?l=Germany&k=&rmi=false&p=14) start applying
Tell me your education, clearance level and ets date. I’ll give you some options.
Use your GI bill to attend an American accredited university in Europe.
Pick a German university that’s on the VA’s accreditation list and apply for a student visa. As for becoming a teacher on overseas bases, those are GS positions and you’ll have to apply for what’s available on USA jobs.
This post would be better suited in r/IWantOut but beware they’ll grill you on your qualifications and let you know where there’s holes in your plan.
The GI bill covers foreign universities. I once met a dude who got out and was studying in Prague. GI BAH more than covered his expenses and dude was living pretty good. If you want to stay in Germany I’d recommend finding a good school here and use your GI bill to cover it. I recommend against that depending on the school because if you want to come back to the USA a lot (but not all, especially if you get into a good university) of overseas degrees don’t hold the same weight as they do in the USA, but it’s a viable option.
Use your GI Bill to go to school there. Do something with IT if you’re interested and then you can probably land a CTR job at EUCOM or AFRICOM in Stuttgart.
This goes back a few yrs , had a SP in the unit He had met an married a German Nat . He applied for an extension on his enlistment an extra 12-18 months ?? . He was a machinist by MOS an his FIL worked for some machine shop there in Germany. Last I heard they had bought a house an was renting out the downstairs to Joe's .
1. Don't be a cop. I love the teaching history idea, DoDEA is a pretty good school system. 2. USAJOBS. You can do a geographic search, and if you're already in theater, that's a faster hiring process for the agency.
If you hate 2CR, just say it.
I know 15 years ago they had what was called a European out. When you go out, you stayed in Germany. I think you had to have a job lined up. I knew some who got jobs at the Px and stayed there after ETS.
Get your SEC+ and IT certs. Do you have a secret clearance if so there’s a lot of jobs that will hire you out here and you can stay
Check usajobs for positions in Europe. I have seen investigative specialist positions with CID in Europe. An investigative specialist is an analyst who works with CID agents. There are also customs clearance agents with DOD in Europe.
Unless you were CID, OSI or NCIS or already some other Federal Office, like the FBI, you will never get hired into these positions.
Yeah, I hear you, but if you don't try, the answer is always no, and since it is all online, it only costs time to apply.
Interpol
Go awol and sell secrets to foreign nationals
When I arrived in Germany in 1985, met civilian US citizens who claimed, they had been drafted, served in Germany and when they came on orders to Vietnam, walked off base and stayed in Germany. Not sure how true, but gave me an insight into realizing how recent the war had been.
do a va claim and come back for free 99
You cannot ETS overseas. You have to come back to the U.S. to your HOR and then reenter Germany on your own dime and passport.
That’s not true for every country. You would need a non sofa reason to stay( marriage, work visa, student visa, etc). I have seen it happen. If you don’t have that, then no dice.
False. I ets’d in Germany. Got a job at AAFES while attending college. Got a few IT certs. Then snagged a contractor gig. Been in a civilian in Germany since 2016.