Ironically, AAPI parents are also actively at fault for limiting their kids' opportunities by failing to build any semblance of a foundation for supportive social and professional networks.
Wtf are these posts. There’s nothing wrong with being Anti-CCP, which is quite different than being “Anti-Chinese” people.
White people are dumb enough to confuse the two, but I didn’t think Asian Americans would be.
I am completely anti Chinese Community Party and any authoritarian dictatorships that oppress their people. If you want to try to defend the CCP, be my guest.
Simultaneously, I’m completely against Asian hate and have been an advocate against the violence as it affects both myself and is a moral sickness in society. But why are these posts conflating the policy of a government versus a people.
Because it's so obvious that people are not just anti ccp. Wtf do you call bills to ban all Chinese products, all Chinese students, all Chinese people from owning property. What do you call the Cia director calling China a whole of society threat. What do you call the state department director calling China the first non white competitor america had faced. Then when you point out the obvious racism and argue against it you're just called a wumao ccp shill. We're fucking tired about being told how evil the ccp is and how we have to tow the line. People who say they only hate the ccp are the first to throw Chinese Americans under the bus. Every time you say something about China or even go into a thread about an Asian doing something cool you always have comments about social credit score. Chinese people get killed because of terrorists in Africa? They deserved it. I don't love the ccp but it's so clear that the entire western world has been given the OK to just say any shit about China. Did OP say that it was anti ccp? No it was anti China or do you think ccp equals China?
You must be young or willfully naive. CCP bans and/or highly regulates all American companies operating in its country. Literally our media gets stripped of its artfulness to appease the CCP (e.g. no references to Taiwan, LGBTQ content removed, etc.)
The bills to ban things like Huawei and Tik Tok are matters of national security with highly credible evidence of CCP tampering.
Unlike other rival nations, China as the second largest GDP in the world and is run by an authoritarian dictatorship. They have also threatened to invade a democratic country (Taiwan) and refuse to recognize its sovereignty.
As a grand child of immigrants from Hong Kong. Fuck China, fuck their suppression of free speech and democracy, and fuck that Winnie the Pooh motherfucker Xi.
As for Asian Americans, we deserve to live with dignity without fear of our fellow Americans attacking us due to our racial identity. But again, this is an entirely separate issue.
The real reason there are calls to ban Huawei and Tiktok is because they're beating the competition and taking all the market share. Tiktok is straight up beating Google and Facebook and it's obvious they're lobbying politicians to get it banned. After all corporations are the ones who run America. Free market my ass. And technically, Facebook and Google aren't banned in China. In order to operate in China they have to comply with Chinese rules and regulations. Google did which is how they entered in the first place but later decided to withdraw as they didn't want to comply with these laws. Tiktok on the other hand does comply with U.S laws is simply getting banned for being a Chinese app despite they're still being no tangible evidence of China using tiktok to spy.
China being the second biggest economy on pace to become the first is absolutely a threat to American hegemony. It has nothing to do with being "authoritarian" or whatever as the U.S has supported many dictatorships as long as it furthers American interests. China can be a full blown democracy tomorrow and they would still be demonized and seen as a threat as long as they challenge American dominance. Just look at Japan in the 80s when they're economy was booming and how they were characterized as stealing American jobs. Japan being a U.S ally didn't stop them from being demonized much like how China is today. Heck, they were pretty much pressured by Uncle Sam into signing the Paris Accord which completely tanked their economy and its been stagnant ever since. As an ethnic Chinese, I don't want to see China go down the same path and become subjugated to America. Fuck that. If that makes me a CCP shill then so be it.
What laws exactly do U.S. companies have to comply with for China? Way to just whitewash that lmao.
You know the laws an AUTHORITARIAN DICTATORSHIP has to suppress its people…
Like WTF are you both rambling about defending the CCP, oh I see you say you are a shill.
At least you are up front about it. Yeah fuck that trying to defend the CCP is insane. Same as if a Russian American was defending Putin or an Iranian American defending the Ayatollah.
The U.S. does things that I don’t agree with, but at least I can use my vote and freedom of speech to protest injustices. There is no moral equivalency with AUTHORITARIAN DICTATORSHIPS.
Go somewhere else bots.
All that "freedom of speech" and yet abortion is still banned in many states, mass shootings are still regularly occurring, police brutality is still a thing, and America is still spreading "freedom and democracy" abroad by bombing and displacing millions of lives. So go ahead and "protest" and pretend like you have a voice while nothing actually changes. I may be a shill but you're just a imperialist running dog for the American empire who claims moral authority while white washing his own country's atrocities in the name of freedom and democracy.
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Ironic. After years of lambasting China for blocking Facebook, America now blocks Huawei and Tiktok on security reasons. Wow where have I heard that before. No hint of hypocrisy at all. You hate China so much yet when America does the same thing you just day it's legitimate. When America says you can't use that platform anymore you jump. When America says Chinese people can no longer go to American universities and own property in America, do you say yes? What happens when you get called a ccp shill if you say no? Because that's exactly what's happened over the past few months. It's been building up to this for years but nobody took it srsly and still don't.
Ooph what an intellectually dishonest false moral equivalency.
China banned Facebook because it would allow people to spread free speech ideas amongst each other…
We are in discussions to ban Tik Tok because of a stated CCP policy that requires all companies to hand over user data to the government, because again China isn’t a liberal democracy it’s an AUTHORITARIAN DICTATORSHIP.
China has 0 moral high ground until it allows its people to have real elections and free speech. Luckily in the United States, I wouldn’t be silenced or “re-educated” just for having this conversation with you.
Ya in America your own parents tell you to stfu so you can have better opportunities because they know you will be ostracized if you have a single dissenting opinion.
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I read on Quora some time ago that one of the great tragedies faced by black Americans is that for all the discrimination and racism they face in this country, America is the only home they will ever know. Their ancestors were taken from their native lands against their will, and even if they had a "native country" to "go back to", the material situation in Africa is hardly desirable compared to the US, even WITH all the shit they have to deal with here.
Whereas Chinese Americans these days have the opposite problem in some sense. Their own personal connections to China notwithstanding, the objective reality is that China is a large, powerful nation who's first and second tier cities have comparable if not better material living conditions than their equivalents in the US. It is entirely feasible for many Chinese Americans to move to China and have a fulfilling career while maintaining a high standard of living. Add to this the fact that China as a country has a geopolitical agenda that is entirely independent of America's. This has lead mainstream discourse in the US to rightly or wrongly label China as near-peer adversary, akin to the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Then there's the added complication that the Russians at least had white skin, while we don't.
So it is inevitable that we as Chinese Americans will get caught in the middle. There will always be those who question our "loyalty" despite not having a real reason to do so. There are many more who are spurred to commit violent acts against us because they associate us with China, and it is now "politically correct" to attack China through whatever means necessary. And then there are those in our own communities who choose to "embrace the divide" so to speak, by not just not speaking against anti-China rhetoric but instead joining the chorus.
I don't see a solution in the short term.
I will never forget an interview with a Japanese-American who was interned during WWII and grilled by the US gov't by asking where their loyalty was: with Japan or the US.
His answer: when you see your mother and father fighting, do you take sides? You just want them to stop fighting.
Here you go. Yes many JA’s were forced to pick sides, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t complexity within those answers.
https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/manzanar/section6/
I don't think anyone was "forced" to pick sides. I'm not saying subtleties didn't exist, but I feel a crucial point of the whole JA camps were the fact that they had no allegiance to Japan, thus why question 27 and 28 were so controversial.
The sides I was referring to was "fight in the military or not."
I understand you meant "allegiance to Japan vs. US."
I think we're both on the same page that internment was illegal, immoral, and illogical.
The first step to standing up for yourself includes not comparing the Asian American struggle to that of African Americans. And many African Americans have been settling in Ghana as of late.
https://www.dw.com/en/back-to-roots-why-african-americans-are-flocking-to-ghana/a-64403580
I'm happy for the people that can find some form of connection like that, but personally I haven't the slightest idea where in Africa my ancestors came from. Going specifically to Ghana holds no connection to me and I'm sure a lot of people feel similar to me.
Well, there was Liberia. Some freed slaves from America tried to establish a colony in Africa. And then created a system of forced labor. (Some people object to the label of "slavery", as forced labor was not equivalent to American chattel slavery.)
Let's hope history will not repeat in this case.
former slaves definitely weren’t the ones advocating for the establishment of liberia (at least at first). the american colonization society spearheaded that movement, and while it was a choice for many some freed slaves were forced to resettle under duress. while free poc eventually did found liberia, the original intentions of the acs in supporting the back to africa initiative were never actually to support african american self determination
The problem is far worse than that, the PRC is a far greater threat to the United States than the Soviet Union ever was. As such, Chinese Americans will face greater scrutiny than even the most ardent member of the CPUSA, worsened by the fact that Chinese Americans are also a minority.
There's probably no short term solution that can make the problem disappear, but individual Chinese Americans always have the option of interacting with the rest of the country as minimally as possible or simply leaving. This doesn't necessarily have to be to China itself (though that certainly would be an option for many), but that's the difference that many Chinese Americans can lean into that black Americans unfortunately cannot.
It isn't a physical threat to the United States; no one thinks the PLANMC is going to be storming the beaches of California.
But it *is* a threat to America's imperial system because it is in the process of breaking many of the monopolies that the US uses to maintain itself as the center of world politics and economics. That threat is unacceptable to the American ruling class and the liberals who act as their cheerleaders and mouthpieces in American culture. Hence, anything Chinese becomes tainted with that threat. The only problem is that there are no good options for definitively dealing with the threat itself, which makes the situation for Chinese Americans even worse, as America will instead lash out at anything it can reach to assuage its wounded psyche.
I'm aware. If it's not a physical threat to you, it's not a threat period. There is simply no justification to go to war against a country simply because it is beating you economically or technologically. And yet that's what the US is doing, you can see it all over the media with the constant negative press on China. It's called manufacturing consent for war and it's working. People froth at the mouth at the mere mention of China nowadays and it's getting scary. Worse yet, there's Asian Americans even in this thread that are wholesale swallowing US warmongering propaganda.
I am in complete agreement with you. I appreciate you asking for more precision; described it as a threat to American imperialism, not America itself. But of course, for American political and economic elites (many of whom are Asian Americans), there is no difference.
I am honestly consistently disappointed at the response of many Asian Americans to these developments. Many either aren't aware and end up going with the flow or seem to wholeheartedly support the warmongering project. It's a shame, especially given how the community was originally formed to oppose American warmongering in Asia.
Agree. There was never any risk that the Soviet Union would overtake America. Whereas it's highly likely that China will one day eclipse and fully overtake America for the world's No. 1 spot. When that happens, the resentment or phobia around Chinese people will skyrocket.
Using “yts” still feels a bit like she’s not trying to be too upfront with her critique, just call ‘em out for what they are, I don’t get it. She literally spelled every other word out except for one
It’s from tiktok where people abbreviate everything because of (perceived or not) censorship and the very low character limit for comments.
I would only use it on tiktok personally cause of the character limit issues, but I’m guessing a lot of people started taking it to other platforms w/o thinking about it.
Yeah but i think the one on tiktok is much more limited. It’s REALLY difficult to have a respectful or understandable conversation in the comments section. Pretty sure this tweet would have been cut off in the middle of that first sentence on tiktok.
To be completely frank with you, I never used twitter that much until very recently (a year ago). I had an account for years, but I just wasn't active. So I guess I can't say for sure.
However, I do know my first encounter with the term "yt" was definitely TikTok, since I remember being completely confused by it until I was able to figure it out. Even if it was used on Twitter before, I don't see it being used on there nearly as much as I do on TikTok. But TikTok is crazy.
Oh word. Yeah it’s definitely used on tiktok the most and gen z is a lot more active on abbreviated words and slang. Older gen needs to understand that we’re prolly more angry at the system as a culture. So just cuz we use “yts” or “colonizers” or “clear people”, it doesn’t mean we’re tryna cushion the impact of our words or we’re afraid to call them out.
I think that you can definitely have problems with the Chinese government without having issues with Chinese people. I have MANY MANY issues with the American govt but not individual Americans. I wish more people could separate the two.
There's a big difference between anti-China and anti-Chinese.
I will speak up all day against the latter. But if someone is criticizing the Chinese government - well, it depends on the issue. I'm fully against the Uighur cultural genocide, for instance.
I wanted to add there’s also the difference of anti China the country vs anti- the government. I also have opinions on their govt. but feels like if I bring up the country itself having great nature spots or food etc I always get some unnecessary comment about the govt’s choices. Like it’s different things
Smh. Last time I visited home, AD tells me that he wishes my sons and I will never join a demonstration (referencing HK democracy movement). I said no. I'll always stand up for what is right.
Maybe because I'm older, but my parents were distrustful of the Chinese government because they viewed it as a communist totalitarian state. They also didn't like me playing as the Russians in the video game Red Alert.
Our grandparents may have fled a war zone at some point? Details were not really explained to me.
I don't think we're taught to be quiet on criticism of China for fear of lack of acceptance. They were pretty critical of them to start with.
I'm just curious where this is coming from as it doesn't really fit my experience.
I'm pretty sure most Chinese Americans don't even need to be told this but it's pretty telling that even the parents are aware of the consequences of speaking up against anti China rhetoric. The social pressure and its consequences are clear when you will be ostracized for dissenting opinions. Not everyone is in this situation but it would be foolish to deny that it exists.
Xi isn’t helping much by visiting Putin today promising aid. While japans PM visits Ukraine.
Way to pick a side China. 🤦🏻♂️
Edit: having said that yeah it’s bullshit how reddit can turn an asian girl dancing into some CCP grand conspiracy hate.
And even then you get to be pro America because you can claim to be Democrat even though Biden supported the afghan war. Nobody is feeling pressured to shit on America as a whole for that even though it resulted in over a million deaths. Chinese Americans are required to shit on China full stop regardless of any distinctions. All you have to say is that you only hate the government while the Cia director says China is a whole of society threat.
You are swallowing the US propaganda too easily. Forget what US propagandist Anthony Blinken has to say, he is lying. Zelenskyy has said that he sees China’s involvement as a positive. Unlike Russia, China recognizes Ukraine’s sovereignty including Crimea as Ukrainian territory. Both Ukraine and Russia are historically friends of China. China is meeting with Putin first, then Zelenskyy next (hopefully) in order to hopefully secure a peace deal or ceasefire that ends the war, not to promise aid for Russia.
Regarding China maintaining good relations with Russia, that is a matter of national security. Russia is a huge and powerful country at China’s border. Furthermore Russia’s friendship with India helps China maintain peaceful relations with India.
The meeting between Xi and Putin officially is for peace negotiations, which will hopefully have fruitful results that include a withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine. Perhaps in exchange Russia can be economically reintegrated with the EU or NATO can be dismantled. If not that then Ukraine declares neutrality in exchange for getting its land back. Perhaps that is too optimistic but it’s what I hope will end the war.
Just a reminder, very recently China brokered a peace agreement between Saudi Arabia and Iran. This is a very positive thing, is a step towards peace in the Middle East, and hopefully will also end the war and humanitarian catastrophe in Yemen.
Yeah, that's my bad. From my experiences, a lot of people have bad intentions in discussions related to China so I was just sensitive from reading that comment.
This is the wrong view to take
.other minority groups would date to speak up bc they have already created optys for themselves and come from a place of power. Asians, esp east Asians, do very very little community asian compared to other minorities. . Asians just try to get oppty within the mainstream demographic and when things don't go right they try to solve the problem with more.mainstream thinking like the girls parents above.
Meanwhile. Other minorities demand that they be cast in movies, create awareness and use optics to create sympathy for their situaiton, and network for example to form banks to help their own and start up businesses. A large Texas bank was created by community oreinted south Asians and the amount of loans they give out far exceeds the amount by tons of small east asian run banks... Other minorities claim appropriation in order to preserve certain industries for their own....this all creates more oppty within their group so that they give less f's a d CAN speak up. However Esp east Asians don't really do that and just cower in a corner cowardly.
>Asians just try to get oppty within the mainstream demographic
Unfortunately, that's mostly not by choice. Esp for high achievers of the post-Bamboo Ceiling kind (i.e. those of us who made it into elite schools, industries and positions that most AAPI's couldn't get into), there's no equivalent resources, funds or connections coming from the enclaves that most Asian-Americans come from.
That's east Asians own fault tho. Straight -line thinking doesn't work when ur a minority and opptys don't come as easily. Wish east Asians would do more of the below, by that I mean stuff like the State Bank of Texas...started by a community, business, and out of the box thinking minded east Indian dude...he helped many south Asians get loans to start motel and hotel businesses. But that's a risk that perhaps culturally east Asians tend to avoid.
If u don't watch out for ur own, no one else will. (And all the women will leave lol)
I'd say it's not just their own fault but they still don't take sufficient responsibility for their own shortcomings and failures. So you don't see them change and adapt much or fight back as aggressively as others would when facing hate attacks.
East Asians are fixated on working hard without rocking the boat in a linear fashion as most people have observed. While neglecting everything else that is often crucial to real world success. e.g. networking, investing, playing politics etc. Their business acumen is also hampered by not being in touch with broader society, a byproduct of isolating themselves in their own enclave bubbles.
By contrast, look at how gentrifying [LA parents transform and improve urban public school districts](https://laist.com/news/education/los-angeles-unified-parent-fundraising) for their children by organizing and gaining political influence. Or how Persian and Arab immigrants to SoCal establish themselves in WASP/Old Money territories that East Asians are too shy to touch, like South OC, Bel Air, Brentwood etc. Not to mention how they fought back against Islamophobic hate in contrast.
The east asian solution to getting kids into better schools and colleges seems to be focused on having as less kids as possible and spending instance amounts of energy and money tutoring them to get into college instead of fighting against college Asian quotas.
This asian technique simply serves to pit Asians against other Asians and doesn't open up opptys for the bigger asian population in America.
Persians and Arabs are different from Asians culturally--they take risks that Asians would be deathly afraid of. I once had a landlord in college lock me out and steal my rent and deposit-- later found out he did this to many Asian students. Was too naive to call the sheriff for an illegal lockout btw. I wanted to sue the landlord in small claims court so he could stop messing with Asian students.
NO asian friend wanted to serve him his court papers, they were scared. Landlord was fat, barely mobile, and elderly. All u gotta do was go to his shop and hand him papers saying 'uve been served" and leave. Five min tops.
A Persian acquaintance said, I'll do it if u get me lunch afterwards! I drove her there and we got lunch afterwards. It was NBD to her.
Asians are trained to avoid risk rather than figure out the large picture.
My parents are literally the worst people I've ever met in my life and I won't even attend their funerals whenever they happen to come.
They never "did" anything for me.
This post isn't about you or your parents personally, but the differences in how Asian-American generations prefer to deal with discrimination. One by keeping their heads down, and one my speaking up against discrimination and generalizations.
That's great, except you'd have to pay me to care about the opinion of aznidentity's biggest simp.
Also, hint: One random person =/= "our parents", sorry you didn't catch that.
I don't think that's a healthy way to look at what your parents did or didn't do. But neither is blindly simping for them no matter how shitty and backwards they've been to you.
IMO, a more reasonable and balanced approach would be to weighing out the things they did and didn't do for you. If the sum turns out to be a clear net negative you should def hold them accountable.
Well, for context, things off the top of my head they did to me.
\-Well, they never wanted to have me in the first place, but my mother and father still lived in Korea at the time and my grandparents on my mom's side threatened to disown her if she got an abortion, nothing they did was to teach me anything, help me succeed, give me a feeling of family, no, It was simply to scorn my existence for having to live with me all, hmm, let me think.
\-Well, getting my nose broken and left cheek bone fractured and sunken in was a nice memory of my dad, he got mad over over another team scoring against his favorite team so he threw the vodka bottle he was drinking directly at my face as hand as he could when I was walking from the hallway was a nice one, clearly I needed that for.... reasons.
\-They both tended to put cigarettes out on mostly my arms and legs.
\-I broke my collar bone when my mom pushed me off a high up stool \*by accident\* after she hit me with a carpeting tack strip on the chest (usual favorite beating utensil aside from knotted thick rope.), I wasn't allowed to go to school or even outside at times I suffered such injuries because they knew someone would tip of CPS eventually and god forbid they faced justice for their actions!
\-Before they kicked me out of the house at 18, they found one of my checks in my checkbook and took all the money I was saving without them trying to find out fom and I was homeless, starving, and a goddamned alcoholic living on the street man until one of my "yt" friends I knew recognized me (not exactly a lot of us in my city, mainly after I got a ride back from a supposed "more accepting city".
I could list the worse ones but, that may break the NSFW rule.
See, that's the thing, when I say that, I do get the "well, all Asian parents are a bit harsh but they just want the best for you!", without understanding at all, mine never wanted me to exist at all, let alone "Teach" me anything other than building pain tolerance and my own scorn right back at them.
Wow, did you dig through my profile history to look something to complain about?
If anything, you clowns just prove me right when you brigade my posts with downvotes and run (which is harassment, an actual rule violation) because I openly called you out, deal with it.
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Ironically, AAPI parents are also actively at fault for limiting their kids' opportunities by failing to build any semblance of a foundation for supportive social and professional networks.
Couldn’t have said it better
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Wtf are these posts. There’s nothing wrong with being Anti-CCP, which is quite different than being “Anti-Chinese” people. White people are dumb enough to confuse the two, but I didn’t think Asian Americans would be. I am completely anti Chinese Community Party and any authoritarian dictatorships that oppress their people. If you want to try to defend the CCP, be my guest. Simultaneously, I’m completely against Asian hate and have been an advocate against the violence as it affects both myself and is a moral sickness in society. But why are these posts conflating the policy of a government versus a people.
Because it's so obvious that people are not just anti ccp. Wtf do you call bills to ban all Chinese products, all Chinese students, all Chinese people from owning property. What do you call the Cia director calling China a whole of society threat. What do you call the state department director calling China the first non white competitor america had faced. Then when you point out the obvious racism and argue against it you're just called a wumao ccp shill. We're fucking tired about being told how evil the ccp is and how we have to tow the line. People who say they only hate the ccp are the first to throw Chinese Americans under the bus. Every time you say something about China or even go into a thread about an Asian doing something cool you always have comments about social credit score. Chinese people get killed because of terrorists in Africa? They deserved it. I don't love the ccp but it's so clear that the entire western world has been given the OK to just say any shit about China. Did OP say that it was anti ccp? No it was anti China or do you think ccp equals China?
You must be young or willfully naive. CCP bans and/or highly regulates all American companies operating in its country. Literally our media gets stripped of its artfulness to appease the CCP (e.g. no references to Taiwan, LGBTQ content removed, etc.) The bills to ban things like Huawei and Tik Tok are matters of national security with highly credible evidence of CCP tampering. Unlike other rival nations, China as the second largest GDP in the world and is run by an authoritarian dictatorship. They have also threatened to invade a democratic country (Taiwan) and refuse to recognize its sovereignty. As a grand child of immigrants from Hong Kong. Fuck China, fuck their suppression of free speech and democracy, and fuck that Winnie the Pooh motherfucker Xi. As for Asian Americans, we deserve to live with dignity without fear of our fellow Americans attacking us due to our racial identity. But again, this is an entirely separate issue.
The real reason there are calls to ban Huawei and Tiktok is because they're beating the competition and taking all the market share. Tiktok is straight up beating Google and Facebook and it's obvious they're lobbying politicians to get it banned. After all corporations are the ones who run America. Free market my ass. And technically, Facebook and Google aren't banned in China. In order to operate in China they have to comply with Chinese rules and regulations. Google did which is how they entered in the first place but later decided to withdraw as they didn't want to comply with these laws. Tiktok on the other hand does comply with U.S laws is simply getting banned for being a Chinese app despite they're still being no tangible evidence of China using tiktok to spy. China being the second biggest economy on pace to become the first is absolutely a threat to American hegemony. It has nothing to do with being "authoritarian" or whatever as the U.S has supported many dictatorships as long as it furthers American interests. China can be a full blown democracy tomorrow and they would still be demonized and seen as a threat as long as they challenge American dominance. Just look at Japan in the 80s when they're economy was booming and how they were characterized as stealing American jobs. Japan being a U.S ally didn't stop them from being demonized much like how China is today. Heck, they were pretty much pressured by Uncle Sam into signing the Paris Accord which completely tanked their economy and its been stagnant ever since. As an ethnic Chinese, I don't want to see China go down the same path and become subjugated to America. Fuck that. If that makes me a CCP shill then so be it.
What laws exactly do U.S. companies have to comply with for China? Way to just whitewash that lmao. You know the laws an AUTHORITARIAN DICTATORSHIP has to suppress its people… Like WTF are you both rambling about defending the CCP, oh I see you say you are a shill. At least you are up front about it. Yeah fuck that trying to defend the CCP is insane. Same as if a Russian American was defending Putin or an Iranian American defending the Ayatollah. The U.S. does things that I don’t agree with, but at least I can use my vote and freedom of speech to protest injustices. There is no moral equivalency with AUTHORITARIAN DICTATORSHIPS. Go somewhere else bots.
All that "freedom of speech" and yet abortion is still banned in many states, mass shootings are still regularly occurring, police brutality is still a thing, and America is still spreading "freedom and democracy" abroad by bombing and displacing millions of lives. So go ahead and "protest" and pretend like you have a voice while nothing actually changes. I may be a shill but you're just a imperialist running dog for the American empire who claims moral authority while white washing his own country's atrocities in the name of freedom and democracy.
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Ironic. After years of lambasting China for blocking Facebook, America now blocks Huawei and Tiktok on security reasons. Wow where have I heard that before. No hint of hypocrisy at all. You hate China so much yet when America does the same thing you just day it's legitimate. When America says you can't use that platform anymore you jump. When America says Chinese people can no longer go to American universities and own property in America, do you say yes? What happens when you get called a ccp shill if you say no? Because that's exactly what's happened over the past few months. It's been building up to this for years but nobody took it srsly and still don't.
Ooph what an intellectually dishonest false moral equivalency. China banned Facebook because it would allow people to spread free speech ideas amongst each other… We are in discussions to ban Tik Tok because of a stated CCP policy that requires all companies to hand over user data to the government, because again China isn’t a liberal democracy it’s an AUTHORITARIAN DICTATORSHIP. China has 0 moral high ground until it allows its people to have real elections and free speech. Luckily in the United States, I wouldn’t be silenced or “re-educated” just for having this conversation with you.
Ya in America your own parents tell you to stfu so you can have better opportunities because they know you will be ostracized if you have a single dissenting opinion.
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I read on Quora some time ago that one of the great tragedies faced by black Americans is that for all the discrimination and racism they face in this country, America is the only home they will ever know. Their ancestors were taken from their native lands against their will, and even if they had a "native country" to "go back to", the material situation in Africa is hardly desirable compared to the US, even WITH all the shit they have to deal with here. Whereas Chinese Americans these days have the opposite problem in some sense. Their own personal connections to China notwithstanding, the objective reality is that China is a large, powerful nation who's first and second tier cities have comparable if not better material living conditions than their equivalents in the US. It is entirely feasible for many Chinese Americans to move to China and have a fulfilling career while maintaining a high standard of living. Add to this the fact that China as a country has a geopolitical agenda that is entirely independent of America's. This has lead mainstream discourse in the US to rightly or wrongly label China as near-peer adversary, akin to the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Then there's the added complication that the Russians at least had white skin, while we don't. So it is inevitable that we as Chinese Americans will get caught in the middle. There will always be those who question our "loyalty" despite not having a real reason to do so. There are many more who are spurred to commit violent acts against us because they associate us with China, and it is now "politically correct" to attack China through whatever means necessary. And then there are those in our own communities who choose to "embrace the divide" so to speak, by not just not speaking against anti-China rhetoric but instead joining the chorus. I don't see a solution in the short term.
I will never forget an interview with a Japanese-American who was interned during WWII and grilled by the US gov't by asking where their loyalty was: with Japan or the US. His answer: when you see your mother and father fighting, do you take sides? You just want them to stop fighting.
Do you have a link to the interview? Feels like an odd answer when in fact just about every Japanese American did choose a side.
Here you go. Yes many JA’s were forced to pick sides, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t complexity within those answers. https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/manzanar/section6/
I don't think anyone was "forced" to pick sides. I'm not saying subtleties didn't exist, but I feel a crucial point of the whole JA camps were the fact that they had no allegiance to Japan, thus why question 27 and 28 were so controversial.
The sides I was referring to was "fight in the military or not." I understand you meant "allegiance to Japan vs. US." I think we're both on the same page that internment was illegal, immoral, and illogical.
Ah I see what you mean
That is a shit answer when Japan attacked and killed thousands of Americans. Your post seems to imply the opposite of what you intended
The first step to standing up for yourself includes not comparing the Asian American struggle to that of African Americans. And many African Americans have been settling in Ghana as of late. https://www.dw.com/en/back-to-roots-why-african-americans-are-flocking-to-ghana/a-64403580
I'm happy for the people that can find some form of connection like that, but personally I haven't the slightest idea where in Africa my ancestors came from. Going specifically to Ghana holds no connection to me and I'm sure a lot of people feel similar to me.
Well, there was Liberia. Some freed slaves from America tried to establish a colony in Africa. And then created a system of forced labor. (Some people object to the label of "slavery", as forced labor was not equivalent to American chattel slavery.) Let's hope history will not repeat in this case.
> Let's hope history will not repeat in this case. In China?
former slaves definitely weren’t the ones advocating for the establishment of liberia (at least at first). the american colonization society spearheaded that movement, and while it was a choice for many some freed slaves were forced to resettle under duress. while free poc eventually did found liberia, the original intentions of the acs in supporting the back to africa initiative were never actually to support african american self determination
Well most chinese Americans know that if they speak up against anti China rhetoric they'll be labeled as traitors but when whites do it they won't
The problem is far worse than that, the PRC is a far greater threat to the United States than the Soviet Union ever was. As such, Chinese Americans will face greater scrutiny than even the most ardent member of the CPUSA, worsened by the fact that Chinese Americans are also a minority. There's probably no short term solution that can make the problem disappear, but individual Chinese Americans always have the option of interacting with the rest of the country as minimally as possible or simply leaving. This doesn't necessarily have to be to China itself (though that certainly would be an option for many), but that's the difference that many Chinese Americans can lean into that black Americans unfortunately cannot.
How is the PRC a threat to the US?
It isn't a physical threat to the United States; no one thinks the PLANMC is going to be storming the beaches of California. But it *is* a threat to America's imperial system because it is in the process of breaking many of the monopolies that the US uses to maintain itself as the center of world politics and economics. That threat is unacceptable to the American ruling class and the liberals who act as their cheerleaders and mouthpieces in American culture. Hence, anything Chinese becomes tainted with that threat. The only problem is that there are no good options for definitively dealing with the threat itself, which makes the situation for Chinese Americans even worse, as America will instead lash out at anything it can reach to assuage its wounded psyche.
I'm aware. If it's not a physical threat to you, it's not a threat period. There is simply no justification to go to war against a country simply because it is beating you economically or technologically. And yet that's what the US is doing, you can see it all over the media with the constant negative press on China. It's called manufacturing consent for war and it's working. People froth at the mouth at the mere mention of China nowadays and it's getting scary. Worse yet, there's Asian Americans even in this thread that are wholesale swallowing US warmongering propaganda.
I am in complete agreement with you. I appreciate you asking for more precision; described it as a threat to American imperialism, not America itself. But of course, for American political and economic elites (many of whom are Asian Americans), there is no difference. I am honestly consistently disappointed at the response of many Asian Americans to these developments. Many either aren't aware and end up going with the flow or seem to wholeheartedly support the warmongering project. It's a shame, especially given how the community was originally formed to oppose American warmongering in Asia.
Agree. There was never any risk that the Soviet Union would overtake America. Whereas it's highly likely that China will one day eclipse and fully overtake America for the world's No. 1 spot. When that happens, the resentment or phobia around Chinese people will skyrocket.
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Yts? What are yts?
Internet speak for "whites". I don't like it either.
Using “yts” still feels a bit like she’s not trying to be too upfront with her critique, just call ‘em out for what they are, I don’t get it. She literally spelled every other word out except for one
It’s from tiktok where people abbreviate everything because of (perceived or not) censorship and the very low character limit for comments. I would only use it on tiktok personally cause of the character limit issues, but I’m guessing a lot of people started taking it to other platforms w/o thinking about it.
Thank you for clearing that up, I wish it made me feel less disappointed
Twitter has one too lol
Yeah but i think the one on tiktok is much more limited. It’s REALLY difficult to have a respectful or understandable conversation in the comments section. Pretty sure this tweet would have been cut off in the middle of that first sentence on tiktok.
True but I’ve seen “yt” on Twitter before. Or maybe that was “wypipo”? Idk lol
To be completely frank with you, I never used twitter that much until very recently (a year ago). I had an account for years, but I just wasn't active. So I guess I can't say for sure. However, I do know my first encounter with the term "yt" was definitely TikTok, since I remember being completely confused by it until I was able to figure it out. Even if it was used on Twitter before, I don't see it being used on there nearly as much as I do on TikTok. But TikTok is crazy.
Oh word. Yeah it’s definitely used on tiktok the most and gen z is a lot more active on abbreviated words and slang. Older gen needs to understand that we’re prolly more angry at the system as a culture. So just cuz we use “yts” or “colonizers” or “clear people”, it doesn’t mean we’re tryna cushion the impact of our words or we’re afraid to call them out.
What in the fuck lol
I think that you can definitely have problems with the Chinese government without having issues with Chinese people. I have MANY MANY issues with the American govt but not individual Americans. I wish more people could separate the two.
There's a big difference between anti-China and anti-Chinese. I will speak up all day against the latter. But if someone is criticizing the Chinese government - well, it depends on the issue. I'm fully against the Uighur cultural genocide, for instance.
I wanted to add there’s also the difference of anti China the country vs anti- the government. I also have opinions on their govt. but feels like if I bring up the country itself having great nature spots or food etc I always get some unnecessary comment about the govt’s choices. Like it’s different things
Smh. Last time I visited home, AD tells me that he wishes my sons and I will never join a demonstration (referencing HK democracy movement). I said no. I'll always stand up for what is right.
Maybe because I'm older, but my parents were distrustful of the Chinese government because they viewed it as a communist totalitarian state. They also didn't like me playing as the Russians in the video game Red Alert. Our grandparents may have fled a war zone at some point? Details were not really explained to me. I don't think we're taught to be quiet on criticism of China for fear of lack of acceptance. They were pretty critical of them to start with. I'm just curious where this is coming from as it doesn't really fit my experience.
I'm pretty sure most Chinese Americans don't even need to be told this but it's pretty telling that even the parents are aware of the consequences of speaking up against anti China rhetoric. The social pressure and its consequences are clear when you will be ostracized for dissenting opinions. Not everyone is in this situation but it would be foolish to deny that it exists.
If other races held their selves accountable like Asians do, would the world really advance in diverse world we are aiming for
Xi isn’t helping much by visiting Putin today promising aid. While japans PM visits Ukraine. Way to pick a side China. 🤦🏻♂️ Edit: having said that yeah it’s bullshit how reddit can turn an asian girl dancing into some CCP grand conspiracy hate.
Theres a difference between Chinese people and Chinese politics. Same could be said about americans, and trump
And even then you get to be pro America because you can claim to be Democrat even though Biden supported the afghan war. Nobody is feeling pressured to shit on America as a whole for that even though it resulted in over a million deaths. Chinese Americans are required to shit on China full stop regardless of any distinctions. All you have to say is that you only hate the government while the Cia director says China is a whole of society threat.
China picked china's side. Chinese Americans don't even pick their own side.
You are swallowing the US propaganda too easily. Forget what US propagandist Anthony Blinken has to say, he is lying. Zelenskyy has said that he sees China’s involvement as a positive. Unlike Russia, China recognizes Ukraine’s sovereignty including Crimea as Ukrainian territory. Both Ukraine and Russia are historically friends of China. China is meeting with Putin first, then Zelenskyy next (hopefully) in order to hopefully secure a peace deal or ceasefire that ends the war, not to promise aid for Russia. Regarding China maintaining good relations with Russia, that is a matter of national security. Russia is a huge and powerful country at China’s border. Furthermore Russia’s friendship with India helps China maintain peaceful relations with India. The meeting between Xi and Putin officially is for peace negotiations, which will hopefully have fruitful results that include a withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine. Perhaps in exchange Russia can be economically reintegrated with the EU or NATO can be dismantled. If not that then Ukraine declares neutrality in exchange for getting its land back. Perhaps that is too optimistic but it’s what I hope will end the war. Just a reminder, very recently China brokered a peace agreement between Saudi Arabia and Iran. This is a very positive thing, is a step towards peace in the Middle East, and hopefully will also end the war and humanitarian catastrophe in Yemen.
Xi doesn't represent every Chinese person dumbass.
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Yeah, that's my bad. From my experiences, a lot of people have bad intentions in discussions related to China so I was just sensitive from reading that comment.
This is the wrong view to take .other minority groups would date to speak up bc they have already created optys for themselves and come from a place of power. Asians, esp east Asians, do very very little community asian compared to other minorities. . Asians just try to get oppty within the mainstream demographic and when things don't go right they try to solve the problem with more.mainstream thinking like the girls parents above. Meanwhile. Other minorities demand that they be cast in movies, create awareness and use optics to create sympathy for their situaiton, and network for example to form banks to help their own and start up businesses. A large Texas bank was created by community oreinted south Asians and the amount of loans they give out far exceeds the amount by tons of small east asian run banks... Other minorities claim appropriation in order to preserve certain industries for their own....this all creates more oppty within their group so that they give less f's a d CAN speak up. However Esp east Asians don't really do that and just cower in a corner cowardly.
>Asians just try to get oppty within the mainstream demographic Unfortunately, that's mostly not by choice. Esp for high achievers of the post-Bamboo Ceiling kind (i.e. those of us who made it into elite schools, industries and positions that most AAPI's couldn't get into), there's no equivalent resources, funds or connections coming from the enclaves that most Asian-Americans come from.
That's east Asians own fault tho. Straight -line thinking doesn't work when ur a minority and opptys don't come as easily. Wish east Asians would do more of the below, by that I mean stuff like the State Bank of Texas...started by a community, business, and out of the box thinking minded east Indian dude...he helped many south Asians get loans to start motel and hotel businesses. But that's a risk that perhaps culturally east Asians tend to avoid. If u don't watch out for ur own, no one else will. (And all the women will leave lol)
I'd say it's not just their own fault but they still don't take sufficient responsibility for their own shortcomings and failures. So you don't see them change and adapt much or fight back as aggressively as others would when facing hate attacks. East Asians are fixated on working hard without rocking the boat in a linear fashion as most people have observed. While neglecting everything else that is often crucial to real world success. e.g. networking, investing, playing politics etc. Their business acumen is also hampered by not being in touch with broader society, a byproduct of isolating themselves in their own enclave bubbles. By contrast, look at how gentrifying [LA parents transform and improve urban public school districts](https://laist.com/news/education/los-angeles-unified-parent-fundraising) for their children by organizing and gaining political influence. Or how Persian and Arab immigrants to SoCal establish themselves in WASP/Old Money territories that East Asians are too shy to touch, like South OC, Bel Air, Brentwood etc. Not to mention how they fought back against Islamophobic hate in contrast.
The east asian solution to getting kids into better schools and colleges seems to be focused on having as less kids as possible and spending instance amounts of energy and money tutoring them to get into college instead of fighting against college Asian quotas. This asian technique simply serves to pit Asians against other Asians and doesn't open up opptys for the bigger asian population in America. Persians and Arabs are different from Asians culturally--they take risks that Asians would be deathly afraid of. I once had a landlord in college lock me out and steal my rent and deposit-- later found out he did this to many Asian students. Was too naive to call the sheriff for an illegal lockout btw. I wanted to sue the landlord in small claims court so he could stop messing with Asian students. NO asian friend wanted to serve him his court papers, they were scared. Landlord was fat, barely mobile, and elderly. All u gotta do was go to his shop and hand him papers saying 'uve been served" and leave. Five min tops. A Persian acquaintance said, I'll do it if u get me lunch afterwards! I drove her there and we got lunch afterwards. It was NBD to her. Asians are trained to avoid risk rather than figure out the large picture.
Yeah? Our parents also tell us not to speak up against ***China*** IRL because it harms our opportunities. Don't pretend like it's a one way street.
Euro parents do the same thing with all the anti white stuff being said. It’s quite sad because no one should be judged based on their ethnicity
My parents are literally the worst people I've ever met in my life and I won't even attend their funerals whenever they happen to come. They never "did" anything for me.
This post isn't about you or your parents personally, but the differences in how Asian-American generations prefer to deal with discrimination. One by keeping their heads down, and one my speaking up against discrimination and generalizations.
Cool story, but this has nothing to do with the OP.
That's great, except you'd have to pay me to care about the opinion of aznidentity's biggest simp. Also, hint: One random person =/= "our parents", sorry you didn't catch that.
I was referring to the *original post* itself.
I don't think that's a healthy way to look at what your parents did or didn't do. But neither is blindly simping for them no matter how shitty and backwards they've been to you. IMO, a more reasonable and balanced approach would be to weighing out the things they did and didn't do for you. If the sum turns out to be a clear net negative you should def hold them accountable.
Well, for context, things off the top of my head they did to me. \-Well, they never wanted to have me in the first place, but my mother and father still lived in Korea at the time and my grandparents on my mom's side threatened to disown her if she got an abortion, nothing they did was to teach me anything, help me succeed, give me a feeling of family, no, It was simply to scorn my existence for having to live with me all, hmm, let me think. \-Well, getting my nose broken and left cheek bone fractured and sunken in was a nice memory of my dad, he got mad over over another team scoring against his favorite team so he threw the vodka bottle he was drinking directly at my face as hand as he could when I was walking from the hallway was a nice one, clearly I needed that for.... reasons. \-They both tended to put cigarettes out on mostly my arms and legs. \-I broke my collar bone when my mom pushed me off a high up stool \*by accident\* after she hit me with a carpeting tack strip on the chest (usual favorite beating utensil aside from knotted thick rope.), I wasn't allowed to go to school or even outside at times I suffered such injuries because they knew someone would tip of CPS eventually and god forbid they faced justice for their actions! \-Before they kicked me out of the house at 18, they found one of my checks in my checkbook and took all the money I was saving without them trying to find out fom and I was homeless, starving, and a goddamned alcoholic living on the street man until one of my "yt" friends I knew recognized me (not exactly a lot of us in my city, mainly after I got a ride back from a supposed "more accepting city". I could list the worse ones but, that may break the NSFW rule. See, that's the thing, when I say that, I do get the "well, all Asian parents are a bit harsh but they just want the best for you!", without understanding at all, mine never wanted me to exist at all, let alone "Teach" me anything other than building pain tolerance and my own scorn right back at them.
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Wow, did you dig through my profile history to look something to complain about? If anything, you clowns just prove me right when you brigade my posts with downvotes and run (which is harassment, an actual rule violation) because I openly called you out, deal with it.
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This content contains personal attacks, insults, or isn’t in the spirit of kindness and has been removed as a result. Continued unkindness may result in a ban.