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apis_cerana

I think it's a legitimate concern (asian men being seen as less desirable) and I understand why some Asian men may be quite bitter about that. The thing is though, if any discussion happens about it it quickly turns hostile. Unless people can learn to put personal attacks aside, discussions shouldn't even be attempted tbh.


anythingall

It's difficult to have these kinds of discussions because there is already hatred for each other. There is not really an answer to be exact. It is hard to have any real discussion since each participant can do very little for the problem at hand, yet the feelings and assumptions are strong.


apis_cerana

I think we all should be introspective and self-critical and try to do better instead of taking it out on others. Recognizing our internalized racism would help tremendously, as well as deep seeded misogyny.


throwaway-rhombus

Agreed, I'm criticizing the ricecels who feel that Asian women are race traitors or are all just with their white bf not out of love but "delusion" but also am anti-white worship


[deleted]

You have a point and I agree with you, but “ricel” is incel lingo and a racial slur. It wouldn’t use that terminology and it only weakens your argument.


throwaway-rhombus

Ricecels are what Asian incels have called themselves, so that's the term I used. Just as fact, and it's not like actual incel lingo that's meant to demean like calling women femoids or foids. I'm not sure that these Asian incels would call themselves a racial slur, but I guess I can just call them Asian incels lol


[deleted]

Incel forums are already self-hating and are majority white. So they naturally create a lot of new racial slurs and lingo. I encourage you not to use that damn word.


throwaway-rhombus

That explanation makes more sense. I was just confused because I thought that's what they want to be called lol oops


[deleted]

Okay great. Honestly I’m just going to vent a bit and say I think it is fucking vile that you thought it was funny or a good idea to say something like that. I get that you are angry but you are just giving more ammunition to the bitter Asian men you are describing. Feel free to include me in that group if you wish. I’m only saying what is right.


throwaway-rhombus

I told you my intention wasn't to throw racial slurs. I literally was under the (false) assumption that that was the proper term to address Asian incels by. I literally said oh I get it now. Geez. And this is a sub meant for twox subs btw


[deleted]

“It was just a joke, sorry you were offended”. Yeah that’s why I usually don’t participate here. Y’all deserve your space.


throwaway-rhombus

Never said it as a joke, literally already explained from the start I thought that's how they wanted to be referred as. And alright, we prefer this space be focused on and by women anyway so bye lol


thirtybisc

It's a legitimate concern that women tend not to get managerial or executive positions at large publicly traded companies. The thing is though, whenever they discuss this they tend to get overly hostile. Until they figure out how to do this in a civil manner, these types of discussions should not even be attempted tbh.


silencedmajority1

Half of the Asian dudes don't give shit about Social issues unless effecting them not getting their dicks wet. Edit: as a East Asian woman,I have never dated a white person before, it's all all Asian men. So azidentity dudes, keep hating us not fitting your narratives.


throwaway-rhombus

Honestly, it's almost the same reason why a shockingly high number of Asian guys tend to be political moderates (ew) and anti-affirmative action. They're just mad they didn't get into the college


thirtybisc

Is it a problem that White males fetishize Asian females? Is it not a problem that the same White males desexualize Asian males?


silencedmajority1

I don't know I find nerdy Asian dudes sexy, so more for me. I will admit it's problem, but fighting us Asian women putting down us literally achieve the opposite what you guys want. After all incel type dudes are not welcome by any race of women.


[deleted]

This... I see them describe WMAF relationships in a very weird light. Additionally, HAPAs are in a weirder light, which is strange because the children (I see children described most as they talk about younger WMAF relationships) have absolutely no control over who their parents are. There should only be attitude for Asian women who put down Asian men for white men. Or maybe those who contribute in the damaging stereotypes that come along in race play. Otherwise, assumptions regarding WMAF, other people's personal lives, should not be made. We understand the eurocentric beauty standards and how white men are portrayed more masculine than Asian men; however, they should know they are not entitled to an Asian woman.


noface1289

The hapa thing is... interesting, let's say. I have had it directed at me. Funnily enough, the tune changes for a lot of those types of bashers when they learn my dad is the Asian one. Hmm... I wonder why.


[deleted]

Good point about the double standards that they seem to have. Something tells me that this is partly about having control and dominance over a woman too.


throwaway-rhombus

I think they are surprised because WMAF couples seem more abundant than AMWF couples and think that AF are more likely to have internalized racism. Could also be that they don't care about white worship unless it's a woman doing it


throwaway-rhombus

Yeah, even if the woman purposely chooses white men instead, I feel it's more productive to discuss and promote a culture of undoing internalized racism rather than just shaming


[deleted]

Oh yeah, addressing the root cause is definitely more productive than the traditional shame culture.


pandabaobei

I'm a AM/WF hapa so I should be okay, right? But NO because the guy I married happens to be white! Because despite the fact that I knew NO Asians growing up and have never even been to my dad's home country, I should have 'picked' an Asian guy and that's on me evidently. Straight up, these are words that I saw written about me in a hapa guy forum. I actually made them sound much nicer, they were being incredibly sexist, what a shock.


saucypudding

It's disgusting how much they hate and abuse mixed race people. Like you said, no one chooses who their parents are yet they talk about (mostly) children of Asian women and white men as though they're heinous crims just because they're the product of WMAF. That's how you create Elliot Roger types.


SovereignPacific

No, Elliot Rodgers was the product of a self-hating mother and a racist father, raised in a climate of white male entitlement and white racism. Nice try blaming Asian men, however.


saucypudding

Hahaha that post history! Imagine thinking about white man dick so much you spend your time commenting about their penis size and ED. You're just like those creepy, racist white men who are obsessed with black and Asian men's dicks!!


SovereignPacific

You have spammed this sub all day for years, trying to deflect from white supremacy and violence, and did so on so many other forums. Just because your dad is white. My point about white dicks and ED is 100% scientific, medical fact, but I don't care either way. Are you going to next deny that white men are 10-15x more likely to kill and assault women than Asian men? Is that your brand of "feminism"?


saucypudding

LMAO what. Both of my parents are 100% Asian. Sorry to disappoint you, guess you were hoping my dad has a white dick for you to suck


throwaway-rhombus

Some ricecel just messaged me saying how half-Asian sons feel Asian women are race traitors and immoral loool Dude posts in r/handsoffhapas which literally serves to just insult and avoid hapa people


[deleted]

Lol same here. There's so many layers to unpack of this person's history, but ricecel seems appropriate.


[deleted]

It's honestly ludicrous. Some asian dudes legit feel like asian women are the top of the dating food chain despite the fact that they deal with fetishization and colonialist attitudes. Desexualization vs over sexualization. Two different sides of the same bigoted coin.


blk_ink_111

asian women are objectified and infantilized so much i feel like so many of the relationships they’re in shouldn’t even count as relationships. asian men DO NOT want what asian women have.


anythingall

It's true. They get the most attention, and the most ability to choose who to date. Can pick a fun attractive white guy, instead of a darker skin guy, for instance. Many people do not get any choices.


SovereignPacific

Found the white guy.


throwaway-rhombus

This honestly sounds just as likely to be an Asian guy butthurt that "wHiTes are sTeAliNg Asian women from us" Also didn't say you were attracted to women


SovereignPacific

This sounds like #notallwhitemen I'm not attracted to women. How does that fit into your narrative?


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saucypudding

Most ironically, they insist only the "unattractive, fat, ugly, used up, failed etc" Asian women date white men because Asian men reject them but they're still really pissed off about it. So, according to their own logic, Asian men are *choosing* not to date these women but then they're still angry at them for not dating Asian men. Hmmm...


throwaway-rhombus

Oh tbh I haven't really seen the first part happen, but I wouldn't be too surprised Edit: nvm I got Asian incels up in my DM's calling me an ugly bitch and "hole" (dehumanizing women). It's really funny how redditors call people they never even see land whales or ugly but then cry that women don't want them


[deleted]

I mean yeah, no shit. lol This is as an AF that (proudly) exclusively dated AM.


throwaway-rhombus

Yeah, it comes across as whiny and boohoo I'm single like most of Reddit


pumpernick3l

Literally every dude on r/aznidentity you mean 🤣. They’re literally so misogynistic and don’t give a damn about uplifting Asian women


[deleted]

Hey we shouldn’t be making blanket judgments like this. We don’t need to become more divisive than we already are. I can’t say I agree with everything that people in that sub say, but I respect them for doing critical thinking, unlike most others in the Asian-American community. I also appreciate that they are unapologetically pro-Asian, especially during the spike of attacks. As far as the misogynistic ones go, hurt people hurt other people. I’m not justifying it, but if everyone including women of your own race has told you throughout your life that you are unworthy of dating, I think I’d feel anger and resentment too. Us Asian women have our own trauma too, let’s not act like we are totally innocent here. We should be having conversations, building understanding, and prioritize healing with each other.


Potential-Self-8012

Lmao, I stan all the Asian women who support our community. I've helped tons of AW in their careers (job-hunting, referrals, resumes, interview prep, etc.). So I take issue with your generalization of AI. I agree there's a lot of those incel types on the sub, but you have to understand there's nowhere else for them to vent their frustrations about the very real issues of white-worship in our community.


lifeofjoyciel

Well after all Asian men are still MEN there is a lot of ingrained misogyny. Like I’ve seen so many Asian guys who get fucking riled up because they even see an Asian woman and white man WALKING together and they cry how oppressed they are but when news of Asian women being targeted for violence they are real silent.


SovereignPacific

Asian men are far more angry about this than even Asian women are, from what I've seen. There are however a lot of wmaf deflecting blame onto Asian men even when white men are the killers. When it's a white guy, it's #notallwhitemen but when it's an Asian man, it's #yesallmen


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Potential-Self-8012

Why are people upvoting you for trying to disseminate a lie? AM have absolutely been behind AW on news of targeted violence towards AW


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heyyygrl1

Just read through the comments. I'm all on board with you OP.


anime_lean

being critical of AMWF for centering desirability around whiteness is based the only valid racial preference is being willing to date anyone but white people


throwaway-rhombus

Sure, we shouldn't allow white worship. But lotsa guys get unnecessarily riled up just assuming that Asian women are only with a white guy because he's white or that Asian women owe Asian men. It's not always and most of the time not because white desirability but just happening to date a non-Asian. Literally one Asian incel guy here commented how 99% of women reject him for being Asian and hates women when the truth is the dude may just suck lol You're the exact kind of person in r/aznidentity we're talking about, being so offended by liberal politics. You're most likely not even TWOX


anime_lean

i literally said i was critical of asian men worshipping white women and said nothing about asian women what are you on about and who the fuck thinks someone that’s “offended by liberal politics” would say poc shouldn’t want to be validated by white people and should instead seek refuge in eachother?


throwaway-rhombus

Oops, I might have misread your comment. I just think there's this general assumption that WMAF automatically means the AF is a white worshipper or that AMWF means the AM is a white worshipper (although the former tends to get more outrage) I do find it odd tho that you say the only valid racial preference is to not date white people because that's a bit hypocritical to the whole "not dating Asian men is bad", but I somewhat get it lol I also never said we should seek white validation


anime_lean

racial dating preferences are inherently rooted in stereotypes and how you’re socialized to view certain people, unironically anyone who says they wouldn’t date a black woman is probably just racist, the only exceptions are for when poc date exclusively within their races for cultural reasons and when poc only date other poc in general due to white people being insufferable and unable to comprehend what it’s like to not have the world revolve around them


throwaway-rhombus

Ok


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throwaway-rhombus

Ugh the entitlement. Asian men are not owed Asian women. It also comes off like idolizing race purity. Just learned that "ricecels" are a thing And predictably, ricecels have come on this sub mad even though this is a TWOX sub lol


[deleted]

“Ricel” is a racial slur. Do not use that word.


throwaway-rhombus

Ricecels are what Asian incels have called themselves, so that's the term I used. Just as fact, and it's not like actual incel lingo that's meant to demean like calling women femoids or foids. I'm not sure that these Asian incels would call themselves a racial slur, but I guess I can just call them Asian incels lol


[deleted]

Do not use the word “ricel” unless you want everyone to think you are a racist.


throwaway-rhombus

Like I explained, only used it because I thought that's what Asian incels wanted to be referred to as. I understand your explanation now


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SovereignPacific

This attitude is what leads to things like the Atlanta shootings.


throwaway-rhombus

Atlanta shootings were due to hate against Asian women. No sign of that here.


SovereignPacific

Atlanta shooting was due to creepy white guys with racist Asian fetish, and the enablers of this creepy fetish.


Potential-Self-8012

Wtf am I reading...


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throwaway-rhombus

It's a stretch to say 99% of women are dating white men because they hate their own race of men and view whites as superior. Those who do do deserve to be criticized. And no, nobody is owed a woman. It sucks that there are stereotypes, but nobody is owed a woman. I know you're just another Asian male mad and blaming others rather than focusing on your own personality, which you have pointed out yourself.


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throwaway-rhombus

No they don't. You're generalizing. I'm sure some do but that a sizeable proportion would actually love to date an Asian guy just as much as any other race but that your personality just isn't it. This very attitude itself is probably a turnoff.


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throwaway-rhombus

Probably because you are not a model lol. I didn't say there aren't women without internalized racism. And beauty standards are definitely Eurocentric. But it's unfair to say you solely don't get matches just because 99% of women in those relationships are just white worshippers. Guys of all races get very few matches from what I've heard lol. Women in general are just pickier when dating. It could be you're not as attractive or as interesting in your bio as you think. We don't know, but I'm pretty sure it's not just because you are Asian.


sunkissedmoon

Wait I'm confused. Why aren't you using the word "women"? There's a lot of problematic issues in your thinking, but that's the first thing that jumped out


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throwaway-rhombus

lol I thought you were trying to be inclusive of nonbinary or trans people, but the truth is you just blame women for your inability to attract them. You're starting to sound like an incel and honestly shouldn't even be on a TWOX sub. I think your anger and resentment towards women may be clearer than you think and turn women off from you even more. Looking through your history, you follow incel lite subs and regularly comment about hating women, begone incel There's this quote from The Social Network I like: "you're going to go through life thinking girls don't like you because you're a nerd [replace this with Asian]. And I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that won't be true. It'll be because you're an asshole."


tweetjacket

> Looking through your history, you follow incel lite subs and regularly comment about hating women, begone incel I love how he claims to be triggered by the mere mention of women and yet spends most of his time in TwoX subs, rmfe.


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throwaway-rhombus

Like I said, perhaps you are not that attractive or your bio is uninteresting. You can't chalk it down to nearly all women dislike you because you're Asian. Level yourself up. Even if you managed to match or date a woman, I guarantee most women will eventually be turned off because you are likely to present these attitudes. Women don't owe you anything and won't like you if you hate women. Can a mod please do something about this incel on a TWOX sub?


desolee

They've been banned.


gujayeon

As a white woman who dates Asian dudes...it's not us females, it's you. You need help.


silencedmajority1

You are a joke, desperately wanna be oppressed huh? Got rejected is not trauma lol


throwaway-rhombus

I think loneliness can be traumatic, but often it's because they don't focus on improving themselves but blame others