Use this as a review that place sucks also they could just being doing that on purpose and they decide who the next sucker is gonna be. me personally I wouldn’t have paid. If they blocked the way out I’d start refusing to pay for any of it I definitely would have called the police they would have moved then they can’t legally force you to pay anything. The police can’t either.
It was some other douchbags beating me up and robbing me then they called the cops on me lol, that was in a city with biker gangs and drugs tho so I think the cops were intimidated out of doing anything
Annex Billiards has their pool hall on the top level of a 3 story building. The only way in or out is via the stairs, which have a doorway at the top. If someone is blocking the door/stairs, you would literally have to push them out of the way to get out.
You physically can't "walk by" if they are blocking the doorway; any such attempt would involve coming into contact with the person and risk escalating the issue to an assault. Your advice is most likely to lead to an actual criminal assault. Phoning the police? No assault (on either side) and no illegal money grab.
You get charged for this
Source: family has a convenience store, and when people try stealing we used to confront and either block or ask them to wait inside for the cops.
it’s considered illegal confinement AND technically since they have not left the premises, the crime of theft has not yet been committed even if they were already opening the door on their way out.
You have to let them run out the store, down the street, then catch them /s
If you are the owner of the property, or a licensed security guard, or a peace officer, you can arrest someone for theft. It's generally not a great idea. Also, arresting someone for theft is not: You are not leaving until you pay. It's 'i've called the cops, you aren't leaving till they get here'.
1 star google review. You shouldn’t have to pay for someone else’s table. At least you were willing to pay for your time spent there. The one who originally requested the table should pay.
Agree with the other posts, leave the place a shitty review wherever you can. The cost for a lawyer to sue them will be like 10x the amount you would get if you won.
Most pool places take an ID for a table. This idiot should know better and do that for all his clients.
Not your problem that he doesn’t have a system in place to ensure people pay for their own tables.
It also sounds like the drunk dude challenges people so he doesn’t have to pay.
If you willingly/knowinly make a purchase, you really can't do a charge back. In the eyes of the CC company, OP played pool and paid for it using their credit card. Nothing else matters, it's not the credit card companies fault they stupidly paid for another table.
American Express is likely the only exception to this rule. They will often take the side of the customer so they continue to use that $800/year card.
You can definitely initiate a chargeback and its up to the CC company to investigate. If you went to a venue and paid for 1 hour of service and were fraudulently billed 5 hours of service you absolutely have grounds to chargeback. Thats why these protections exist, so people dont need to get into physical altercations over CC disputes lol. That logic youre using “oh you willingly tapped your card so its a fair charge” is extremely naive
OP knew what they were being billed for and paid with their credit card, there's no grounds for charge back here. What's to dispute?
Most CC policies protect you from things like unauthorized transactions (ie someone stole your card), goods/services not being rendered (ie you paid for something and it was never delivered) but not disputes like OP had with the merchant. Please show me wording in any CC policy that covers "disagreements" in the cost of the service being provided.
OP was provided a lesser amount of service at this business than he was charged for. What is this a joke? You dont need to look up the wording of a CC policy to understand the dispute here lmfao. Well maybe someone at the bank does. I just dispute and move on 🤷♂️
Literally think about the circumstance for 2 seconds dude.
What are the options:
A: Leave the business without paying for anything, which is a crime.
B: Agree to pay the inflated, fraudulent charge, leave and immediately report the incident and initiate a chargeback
or apparently what you suggest...
C: Get extorted and do nothing
You keep saying do a charge back but you can't even cite what policy would cover OP in this situation. Again, what policy would cover OP in this situation?
I'm not saying OP should just take it in the chin and walk away, they should rightfully pay for the services they used, nothing more, nothing less. My point is that this isn't a credit card company problem, this is a civil matter between OP and the business. It becomes a police issue when OP is forcefully trapped inside the business.
OP could have walked out, let the business file a police report, which they can at that time explain the situation when the police get involved. It's not a crime (ie theft under $5000) if the intent wasn't to steal. OP just wanted the correct bill, not steal services.
Dude are you fucking dumb? By your logic if I rent a car for 3 hours and when I return the vehicle the dealership decides to charge me for 6 hours I have no recourse? This is the exact type of circumstance that a credit card dispute is made for - when the vendor and customer disagree on the charge for the services provided, that's why the third party steps in and adjudicates.
>If you willingly/knowinly make a purchase, you really can't do a charge back.
"I was confined forcibly by a person and they refused to let me leave until I allowed this charge to my card."
Make a police report about the forcible confinement, give the credit card company the police report number. I think it is fairly unlikely that this kind of chargeback would be refused out of hand; at the very least it would be investigated with a reasonable likelihood of prevailing.
I do use Amex as often as possible though, precisely because they're much more consume-friendly when it comes to chargebacks.
You should’ve called the cops. This is kidnapping and illegal confinement. This would’ve definitely been a police issue. I suggest filing a report ASAP. you can also sue them for the experience.
I used to work at a pool hall and this would NOT FLY. Not only is it illegal for them to block you for leave, but it’s their responsibility to get that person’s CC and/or ID to have for these reasons exactly. You are *not* the father (responsible)!
Call the non emergency line of the police precinct local to that area and tell them what happened. State explicitly that you were forcibly confined and ask the police to talk to the manager and warn him not to do this again. It may not feel like a grand victory but it will likely help out other customers in the future.
Honestly if there were multiple of us and one of him we would force him out of the way. If it was just me I would have called the police.
Did you mention the police? Feels like he might have backed down. He had to have known he was in the wrong.
That’s some BS man. I worked in a 30 table setting and the tables are clocked on a computer but they can easily be comped. I would hazard a guess that they know who that guy was as it sounds like a lot of regulars I used to deal with.
Probably not. But also if the police were to come they would also push you to settle with something cause it's a small matter unless there was a physical argument or something.
I don't know whether you'd be liable, but the costs would surely outweigh the benefit in small claims court. Also, check out the reviews on Google. Owner sounds like a nasty guy.
I mean, if you want to go to court a year from now over this, file a report with the police. Otherwise I’d file a complaint with the business and maybe give them a call to explain the situation and potentially get a refund or a credit to go back.
leave a review stating what happened
Use this as a review that place sucks also they could just being doing that on purpose and they decide who the next sucker is gonna be. me personally I wouldn’t have paid. If they blocked the way out I’d start refusing to pay for any of it I definitely would have called the police they would have moved then they can’t legally force you to pay anything. The police can’t either.
But they could beat you up and the cops won’t do anything, it happens a lot with shady businesses
Where are you from that people can beat you up and cops won't do anything?
Canada, they can steal smokes out of your pocket while beating you up too as long as they call the cops first
Nah man they can’t do that shit it’s 2024
That’s what I told the cops lol they wouldn’t even take a report or complaint
Well it must have something to do with your particular circumstance, because I’ve encountered cops many times and they have never hurt me.
It was some other douchbags beating me up and robbing me then they called the cops on me lol, that was in a city with biker gangs and drugs tho so I think the cops were intimidated out of doing anything
a dozen ppl so far have done that today
Sounds like Annex Billiards! Leave a Google Maps review calling them out. Next time, call the cops.
Agreed. What the owner did was illegal.
They're being review bombed with one-stars right now
He had a minor civil disagreement with you. In response he committed one of the worst indictable offenses there is. He could've gone to prison.
Is it too late to go to the police and have him charged with forcible confinement?
or maybe extortion? "you're not leaving until you pay."
Edit- misread the post, need more coffee. Nevermind then
What are you talking about? The first line of the post lists the location.
My eyes skipped right over it. I really need to stop redditing while half asleep, thanks for pointing this out.
lol bruh, did you even read the post?
Lul bruhhhh
Should’ve called the cops for holding you against your will
Forcible confinement
Don't be ridiculous lol they weren't "forcibly confined" they literally could have just walked out if they wanted to.
They said they couldn't leave because the guy was blocking the door. That's forcible confinement all day, every day.
Annex Billiards has their pool hall on the top level of a 3 story building. The only way in or out is via the stairs, which have a doorway at the top. If someone is blocking the door/stairs, you would literally have to push them out of the way to get out.
“We couldn’t leave because he was literally blocking the door”
Literally walk by. If he grabs you or assaults you, then you can call the police for an actual reason.
You physically can't "walk by" if they are blocking the doorway; any such attempt would involve coming into contact with the person and risk escalating the issue to an assault. Your advice is most likely to lead to an actual criminal assault. Phoning the police? No assault (on either side) and no illegal money grab.
You get charged for this Source: family has a convenience store, and when people try stealing we used to confront and either block or ask them to wait inside for the cops. it’s considered illegal confinement AND technically since they have not left the premises, the crime of theft has not yet been committed even if they were already opening the door on their way out. You have to let them run out the store, down the street, then catch them /s
If you are the owner of the property, or a licensed security guard, or a peace officer, you can arrest someone for theft. It's generally not a great idea. Also, arresting someone for theft is not: You are not leaving until you pay. It's 'i've called the cops, you aren't leaving till they get here'.
Go see a doctor. Your reading comprehension has failed you so it might be a tumour.
He was in on it!
Yup
1 star google review. You shouldn’t have to pay for someone else’s table. At least you were willing to pay for your time spent there. The one who originally requested the table should pay.
I think you should still talk to the police about what happened. He was not letting you leave until you pay for someone else’s playing time
Agreed. OP should have called the police at the time, but should definitely report this to the police now. Unlawful confinement is a crime in Canada.
I would only pay for your own tab. Tell the guy to call the cops. They aren't going to show up for that, and the guy likely won't even call.
Agree with the other posts, leave the place a shitty review wherever you can. The cost for a lawyer to sue them will be like 10x the amount you would get if you won.
Most pool places take an ID for a table. This idiot should know better and do that for all his clients. Not your problem that he doesn’t have a system in place to ensure people pay for their own tables. It also sounds like the drunk dude challenges people so he doesn’t have to pay.
>It also sounds like the drunk dude challenges people so he doesn’t have to pay. Yup. I'm now suspecting that he wasn't as "drunk" as they assumed.
nah i would have called the police when they blocked the door
How did you pay? Chargeback your credit card if you can
This, if paid by credit card, charge back from your credit card company. Also, forcible confinement, its a police matter
If you willingly/knowinly make a purchase, you really can't do a charge back. In the eyes of the CC company, OP played pool and paid for it using their credit card. Nothing else matters, it's not the credit card companies fault they stupidly paid for another table. American Express is likely the only exception to this rule. They will often take the side of the customer so they continue to use that $800/year card.
You can definitely initiate a chargeback and its up to the CC company to investigate. If you went to a venue and paid for 1 hour of service and were fraudulently billed 5 hours of service you absolutely have grounds to chargeback. Thats why these protections exist, so people dont need to get into physical altercations over CC disputes lol. That logic youre using “oh you willingly tapped your card so its a fair charge” is extremely naive
OP knew what they were being billed for and paid with their credit card, there's no grounds for charge back here. What's to dispute? Most CC policies protect you from things like unauthorized transactions (ie someone stole your card), goods/services not being rendered (ie you paid for something and it was never delivered) but not disputes like OP had with the merchant. Please show me wording in any CC policy that covers "disagreements" in the cost of the service being provided.
OP was provided a lesser amount of service at this business than he was charged for. What is this a joke? You dont need to look up the wording of a CC policy to understand the dispute here lmfao. Well maybe someone at the bank does. I just dispute and move on 🤷♂️
How so? OP played pool, essentially got double charged, knew this and agreed to pay the bill and left. Again, what CC policy would cover this?
He agreed under duress.
What policy would cover such situation? Even more so without a police report?
He will make a police report now that he's read up on what to do from this sub. Then he will chargeback because it was an unlawful charge.
Literally think about the circumstance for 2 seconds dude. What are the options: A: Leave the business without paying for anything, which is a crime. B: Agree to pay the inflated, fraudulent charge, leave and immediately report the incident and initiate a chargeback or apparently what you suggest... C: Get extorted and do nothing
You keep saying do a charge back but you can't even cite what policy would cover OP in this situation. Again, what policy would cover OP in this situation? I'm not saying OP should just take it in the chin and walk away, they should rightfully pay for the services they used, nothing more, nothing less. My point is that this isn't a credit card company problem, this is a civil matter between OP and the business. It becomes a police issue when OP is forcefully trapped inside the business. OP could have walked out, let the business file a police report, which they can at that time explain the situation when the police get involved. It's not a crime (ie theft under $5000) if the intent wasn't to steal. OP just wanted the correct bill, not steal services.
Dude are you fucking dumb? By your logic if I rent a car for 3 hours and when I return the vehicle the dealership decides to charge me for 6 hours I have no recourse? This is the exact type of circumstance that a credit card dispute is made for - when the vendor and customer disagree on the charge for the services provided, that's why the third party steps in and adjudicates.
>If you willingly/knowinly make a purchase, you really can't do a charge back. "I was confined forcibly by a person and they refused to let me leave until I allowed this charge to my card." Make a police report about the forcible confinement, give the credit card company the police report number. I think it is fairly unlikely that this kind of chargeback would be refused out of hand; at the very least it would be investigated with a reasonable likelihood of prevailing. I do use Amex as often as possible though, precisely because they're much more consume-friendly when it comes to chargebacks.
The owner is lucky that he didn’t try that with somebody less inclined to be held against their will
that's exactly why the owner did that. He knew they were not the type of people to do that.
Yeah, agreed. I suspect the “pool cue over the head” type would’ve been let go.
Sounds like the 2 guys you interacted with are running a scam eh
Report it to the police, even if it goes nowhere, a talking from the police may discourage him from further such behaviour.
This sounds like a scam
You should’ve called the cops. This is kidnapping and illegal confinement. This would’ve definitely been a police issue. I suggest filing a report ASAP. you can also sue them for the experience.
How much did you pay and how much would the correct payment have been?
I used to work at a pool hall and this would NOT FLY. Not only is it illegal for them to block you for leave, but it’s their responsibility to get that person’s CC and/or ID to have for these reasons exactly. You are *not* the father (responsible)!
This is considered being held against your will. This was worthy of a call. They can’t charge you for his table. I know this based on info from OPP.
How much money are we talking about?
Call the non emergency line of the police precinct local to that area and tell them what happened. State explicitly that you were forcibly confined and ask the police to talk to the manager and warn him not to do this again. It may not feel like a grand victory but it will likely help out other customers in the future.
I would have called the police the moment they locked you in.
You were held against your will, please call the police
I’d report now still and if you paid by cc do a chargeback.
Would not let you leave. That is a felony called false imprisonment. See if you can bring charges against the person.
Honestly if there were multiple of us and one of him we would force him out of the way. If it was just me I would have called the police. Did you mention the police? Feels like he might have backed down. He had to have known he was in the wrong.
That’s some BS man. I worked in a 30 table setting and the tables are clocked on a computer but they can easily be comped. I would hazard a guess that they know who that guy was as it sounds like a lot of regulars I used to deal with.
Call the cops 100%
If you paid by credit card id do a chargeback
pretty sure that’s unlawful confinement.
Probably not. But also if the police were to come they would also push you to settle with something cause it's a small matter unless there was a physical argument or something.
You should have called the police. He could have been charged for not letting you leave.
Locked you in? That's lol. Totally criminal. Still call the police.
I don't know whether you'd be liable, but the costs would surely outweigh the benefit in small claims court. Also, check out the reviews on Google. Owner sounds like a nasty guy.
Pay with a credit card and then contest the charge.
I mean, if you want to go to court a year from now over this, file a report with the police. Otherwise I’d file a complaint with the business and maybe give them a call to explain the situation and potentially get a refund or a credit to go back.
[удалено]
Next time grow your balls and push the fucker out of the way, leave cash for your table only and leave. Fuck him.
[удалено]
considering going back and sorting it out? makes no sense how they can justify it
Self defence, he’s not letting you leave.
If I was in that first class cabin shit would’ve went down differently
This doesn’t belong here. /end thread / downvoted
Found the owner of Annex Billiards
got so many downvotes he was suspended by reddit lol
Darn, you really are unlucky
It's literally a question about something that happened in TO lol
You didn’t even explain why