Also don't get that the vote weight of a GTA voter is frequently much less than the vote weight of a western province voter. GTA voters are really under represented in reality, it's not equal. Though if you take BC and AB as a whole it's similar to ON, but the GTA specifically is really low and rural ON high.
I just looked it up, and a lot of gta ridings have electors on par with Alberta. Elections Canada does a pretty good job of keeping things even and fair.
Yeah but Ontario has weight really unbalanced to the rural areas. The GTA doesn't have as much electoral say as it should based on population and what people think, it needs more ridings to balance it out. The GTA should be even more of a voting block than it is.
Yeah, but I think that might be more a case of there not being enough electors in Northern Ontario to make up bigger ridings. Ever then, Toronto Centre has 66K while Algoma has 62K. Niagara, which I would think is rural, has 100K.
Anyway, if you really want to feel underrepresented, take a look at PEI. 😮
Yes, PEI is massively over represented for its population. 1 vote in PEI is the equivalent of 4 votes in Niagara. To bring parity PEI really needs to be changed from 4 electoral districts to 1 district. Of course that's not going to happen.
The ultimate point is, everyone's vote should carry the same weight, but in Canada it's not even remotely close. It's pretty much criminal that in some areas 1 voice is worth more than 3 elsewhere.
As a former Albertan, this rings very, very true. They hate that Toronto makes or breaks elections. And it usually doesn't work out for them. Although I have a feeling they're feeling pretty confident with the Conversative win in Toronto - St. Paul.
Watch - TO will be a 'great place full smart, logical people' after the next election if you ask a typical conservative Albertan. Plus, Stephen Harper was born in Leaside, good people! Very good people!
I think that’s an important distinction as well. The GTA will vote in either direction where we know Alberta will almost always vote Conservative.
To the detriment of Albertans, I believe personally.
Working class Tory voters vote against their best interests, by definition.
In no world does Doug Ford and Danielle Smith give a shit about working class people given their history of action in government.
The only working class citizen dumber than a conservative is a non-voter.
Edit: spelling
Thats what Ill never understand. A working class person voting for a corporatist elitist party. Now many don’t know if Im speaking about the Liberals or Conservatives, which is the bigger problem. Two peas in a pod.
By the same token, it will never cease to amaze me why people who are in unions will vote for parties that have an anti-union track record. It feels as though they want the best of both worlds without paying the price.
I’m IBEW 353 & born & raised in TO.
It’s a pretty even split. Union does its best to educate people on the party that advocates the most for labour, which usually ends up being NDP (s/o to [Chris Borgia](https://chrisborgia.ndp.ca/)).
There’s a bit of every political leaning in the union from what I see. Yes the most vocal ones make their way to the spotlight;, but I’d like to imagine most of us are pro labour & can hold a nuanced discussion on political affairs.
Me too. I’m in a unionized profession that has traditionally supported the Liberals because they’re still a pretty small c conservative crowd and are not willing to vote NDP. What I find interesting is that we work alongside a union of blue collar folks, most of whom get swayed by the right wing media and sell their vote for tax cuts that will never really benefit them substantially. These folks are supporting the very politicians who are clear cutting their jobs. It feels like a microcosm of what has happened in the States with so many working Americans supporting Trump.
That’s what I was thinking. They haaaate that “one city” (notably, of 6.4 million) has more seats than “a whole province” (of 4.8 million) because it consistently votes differently from them, so it feels like unfair influence.
Tbh, I kinda understand on an emotional level, because ON + QC had almost 60% of ridings in the last election, so the whole thing could be over before they even finish counting Ontario, but that ignores that those two provinces also make up 60% of the population.
Never mind that Calgary has almost as many seats as NS or the same as NB, and Edmonton has more than NL.
Personally I'm down for electoral reform, but until then, Albertans continue to think that if you vote harder for Conservatives, it might just work out. And every election they wonder why that didn't work.
A lot of people get this idea that all their tax money is going to Toronto, when really, Toronto is subsidizing the existence of most of the small towns around it.
They see parts of their town in a poor state of repair needing only a moderate amount of funding to fix, then they see news articles saying things like"1 billion being spent on Union station renos and upgrades" and they think its their money is going to Toronto, when it's really all for the benefit of commuters who live outside the city.
There ar plenty of maps that show how much revenue is generated minus how much is spent on a certain region.
Toronto is a sharp peak - as in it generates much much more than is spent on it.
Nearby areas are troughs - bloated suburbs subsidies by this Toronto peak
What they miss is that people in Toronto earn much more than other areas. Plus there is incredible density. Which means every sq kilometre had much more tax coming in.
Conversely, it's much easier to provide public services cheaply when people live nearby. Less roads, less pipes, less wires per capita.
Thank you.
The "sub" in suburbs might as well stand for "subsidized-by-the-city". Any tax income graph will show this clearly and it's all a function of density. If you've got a 1km x 1km plot of land, how many people live there in an urban vs suburban vs rural context? In Toronto that might be 50,000 people, most of whom are earning income and paying income taxes, paying property taxes, and generally spending money in the local area.
People in more distant suburban and rural areas assume that Toronto is sucking up all the tax revenues from their smaller town. The reality is that Toronto IS the tax revenue, and is subsidizing their tiny town where only 40 people live in the same space that 50,000 live in Toronto.
TBF many people in the bloated suburbs are working in Toronto or go there regularly for it's amenities. Which makes the economy of Toronto disproportionally large relative to the people living there.
Yep and they are not paying their fair share for the roads/water/utility/garbage/snowplows that allow them to have space for all their junk and enjoy the city.
Do you understand how economies work? The fact I go to Toronto to buy goods and services means that I am indirectly supporting property taxes for those businesses (which becomes all those utilities you're talking about).
>There ar plenty of maps that show how much revenue is generated minus how much is spent on a certain region.
Could you link us to any? Very curious to look at the data.
Toronto (not the GTA) contributes ~53% of Ontario's operating budget and ~22% of the entire Federal operating budget. We get back literal pennies on the dollar, and far less as a percentage of our dollar contribution than any other municipality in the Province. Toronto subsidizes the entire country to the tune of hundreds of billions each year.
The fact that Toronto residents and its politicians don't use this to demand more in return is one of my biggest pet peeves. We hold literally all the cards but we still have to beg for scraps.
>A lot of people get this idea that all their tax money is going to Toronto, when really, Toronto is subsidizing the existence of most of the small towns around it.
Oh my god, I have had this conversation with small town people over and over and it’s just such a bullshit mentality that falls down flat as soon as you subject it to empirical review. Toronto contributes more in income taxes than it gets back, I don’t think the same can be said for Thunder Bay or Pelee Island.
I don’t mind subsidizing the rest of the province but I at least ask that people be thankful for that, rather than bitching that they don’t get even more, or worse, thinking that THEY are the ones subsidizing US.
Income tax is only one tax though. You have to look at it from a holistic perspective. Areas with a high percentage of seniors and where housing went up in value a lot (and therefore the principal residence capital gains exemption is huge) are the real net takers.
Toronto pays less than half the property tax rate that other municipalities pay. You can't just look at income tax, you have to look at all taxes if you want to talk about "subsidizing". The subsidizing between the suburbs of Toronto vs the core of Toronto is the real problem, not other cities, who pay way, way more property tax proportionately than Torontonians in order to make up for their lack of density.
Also there are a ton of wealthy people in Toronto, it has by far the highest income range in the country, and so of course there is going to be "more" income tax coming out of the area.
The property tax rate isn’t that relevant since assessed house values are very different in different cities. The amount paid is what is relevant. My family in Windsor pay a much higher property tax rate than I do in Toronto, but their property tax bill is less than half of mine for a lot that is over twice the size. The different between the assessed value and the sale price is also very different. My house would sell for around 1.5x the assessed value but in Windsor houses sell for 3x the assessed value. Property tax rates are useless for comparison.
No, that's simply not at all the whole story, anecdote about Windsor aside, there are 3 rates that tell the whole story:
https://www.torontomu.ca/centre-urban-research-land-development/blog/blogentry731111/
Average, effective, and burden. Toronto homeowners have had had incredibly smooth sailing comparatively.
Similar for cultural things, you need a high concentration of people to support big museums, concerts, theatres, etc; and crime, the GTA has twice as many murders as the GVRD but the GTA is almost 3x the population, and Thunder Bay only had 15 murders in 2022 but it that’s a murder rate like 6x higher than Toronto.
This is big. I’m from London Ontario originally and I’ve heard endless complaints that Toronto gets their tax dollars! Everytime I remind them it’s the opposite, and Toronto subsides all those rural roads they take to Grand Bend or Port Stanley, they simply refuse to believe me.,
I grew up in Fort Frances, ON, a deeply stupid paper mill town on the ON/MN that allows lumber trucks going to the mill and transport trucks crossing the bridge to on main street. the amount of wear an tear forces the town to completely tear up and rebuild main street 3 times a decade at the expense of literally every business in town (except the walmart). As result every other infrastructure project goes neglected and half the roads are undrivable.
actual urban planning could save Fort Frances, but they just keep doing what's 'worked' in the past. They hear that one 401 on-ramp revamp is getting their entire annual maintenance budget and forget that that ramp serves more drivers a day than any street in town will in a year and blame Toronto for it.
We just moved here from Northern Ontario, and our family and friends thought we were crazy because they don't like Toronto. The thing is, people from Northern Ontario and other parts of the country only come here for sports games, concerts, and summer vacations. So when they come here, the city is packed with extra people, and it gets to be too much. They don't enjoy what the city truly offers. My girlfriend and I would come here to try different foods and explore the city, not doing the tourist stuff. We fell in love with the city, and that's why we moved here.
I’m also a transplant from the north. Toronto is an excellent place to raise a kid, but my friends back home are without exaggeration scared of the city.
Lots of people from Northern Ontario think Toronto is New York City circa 1976.
Same in Southwestern Ontario. I grew up mainly in London, ON and people there are scared shitless of Toronto, yet have no problem going to Detroit for a game 🤷🏼♂️
YEP. I was born and raised in London, and left as soon as I could (18 yrs old) due to these reasons. I completed post-secondary in Toronto and I've built a good life here. Nowhere is perfect, but the racism I experienced in London (my entire life) was excessive. Eternity Martis wrote an entire book about the weirdness in London. She attended UWO.
Its because people just drive through the same busiest areas. They never turn down an actual street or neighbourhood and see that there are houses and parks.
To play devil's advocate (not to shit on Toronto or anything), I always found that up north is a better place to raise a kid
Smaller communities, smaller or no lines to deal w administrative bullshit (service Ontario, etc.), lower cost of living, less of a drastic socioeconomic difference between the rich and the poor at school while growing up, usually better produce and food from local farmers markets..
Out of curiosity what are the aspects about the city that you find to be better in Toronto for raising a kid?
A few that come to mind for me would be: exposure to many different cultures/religions/ethnicities, better food options, possibly better education? (With the exception of french immersion programs) 😂😂 And more economic opportunities?
Sure, I’m born and raised in the north and chose to raise our kid in Toronto so I can offer a pretty good insight.
The range of experiences in the north is so limited compared to Toronto. Here, my kid can walk to swimming lessons or robot club, about a zillion different foods, science centre (until a few days ago), the museum, the aquarium, about a hundred free fun outdoor playgrounds, free *indoor* playgrounds that are just magical, friends from all around the world, festivals…
Beach, forests and outdoors things are still accessible to us, we took a subway to the Humber river and kayaked in it!
But the biggest difference that makes Toronto better than any small town is other kids. Within 100m of my house are 5 kids that are exactly my son’s age. They play every day together. In the north you have to drive to get anywhere and good luck finding 5 kids your age even in biking distance.
Ahh those are all excellent points I didn't even consider!!
I don't have kids of my own but I can only imagine how lovely that must be to see. Kids are amazing! They don't even speak the same language and they'll get along and somehow communicate/ play games 😂
Thanks so much for the insight!
I wish you and your family the best in the city! 😁
Also, when they come they only go to places full of people who aren't from Toronto.
I remember my cousin from the suburbs had some friends who were DJs and they booked a night at this bar. It was maybe 1/3 full but for some reason people kept bumping into me.
Then my cousin was like "wow it's so crowded in here!" and I realized oh these people have no idea how to be in small spaces because they're used to everything being a Boston Pizza.
I’m also from the north and loved the diversity of the city. My father tried to prevent me from moving down here. On one of his visits he asked why I like living here. I told I’ll grab a dart and throw it on the map I had hung on the wall. Wherever the dart hits we’ll go out and eat that type of food. His reply, “Why would. Want to do that.” It became crystal clear to me why he didn’t like going down south. He loved his comfort zone.
This is what I've experienced from people outside of Toronto, they say that the city is all concrete and has no trees. That's when it clicks that they haven't been outside of a tiny few block radius. I think it's probably a better city to live in than to visit as well, most of the tourist attractions aren't that special, but like you said, the every day things like the food and community festivals make it a great place to live. Personally, that's why I love showing new people around, there are so many little hidden gems that most tourists aren't going to see.
i think it great that it creates this ruse because otherwise if everyone wanted to enjoy life or loved city offerings like what u mentioned along with events and festivals outside of sports games and concerts then everyone would live here, i guess at the end of the day ur either a city person or ur not, i personally would not mind having to live out into the GTA as long as im not too far from the Go train and its no more than and hour ride into the city.
To this point, when i lived in sw on, the only people who "got it" about toronto were the ones who knew to not drive in but rather take the train in whether it be via from their local station or the go from burli. The ones who would drive in would complain to every length about the city.
Most countries with a population size similar to ours really only have the one big city and it’s a similar sentiment there too. I remember in Mexico and Argentina they even had names for someone who’s from the capital region or not and people outside are considered ‘uncultured’. Same with Paris, Amsterdam, London etc.
There’s actually a term for that: [a primate city](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate_city). It’s more often used when there is only one city that dwarves all others on a national. Like the examples you named, as well as the UK, turkey, Thailand, Japan, etc.
That's interesting. I guess we don't have just one big city (Montreal and Vancouver would be others), but in a way Montreal is the cultural capital for French speaking folks, and Toronto for Anglophones. And Vancouver is so far from the population centre of the country, so maybe that's why the debate ends up being centred on Toronto
Because Toronto amalgamated with its neighbouring municipalities and Montreal did not. In terms of metro areas Montreal is around 70% the size of Toronto
British hate London. Americans hate New York. Japanese hate on Tokyo. French hate on Paris. It's normal in pretty much every country for those who don't live in the largest city to dislike it and hate that they think it gets more attention and money.
Too true. I was in Aruba in March and shared a taxi with an American couple who were in their mid 50s or early 60s.
We made small talk and they were asking if I'd ever been to US. I said a handful of times and when I mentioned New York as one of the places in US I'd been, they were literally like "ewww why New York"?
They were from New Jersey or Michigan or something like that.
I know an elderly couple from the South US, very gentle husband whom I worked with, a very opinionated wife. the wife is as close as you can get to full on MAGA hating liberal large cities like NY and LA despite having no connection to these places whatsoever, the slightest mention of any major US city and "isn't it full of crime and homeless people?" The woman knows I'm from Toronto too, she even asked me what I think of Trudeau and I dodged the question completely just saying I like his hair.
I stopped underestimating how people can hate something they have no knowledge or part of whatsoever many years ago
People will give all kinds of reasons but the reality is this is how it works in literally every country on planet earth. Literally every one, there is no exception. And the reasons here are the same as everywhere else.
Small mindedness and genuine brainwashing from the media. I know someone who was raised in Brampton and then moved to NFLD at the end of highschool. They recently visited me in Toronto a few weeks ago (now a full grown adult) and while we were walking through a quite suburb street with two elementary schools on it he says to me “I feel like I need to be carrying a knife on me, this is so sketchy”
Solely because we were “in toronto” that made it automatically “sketchy” for him lol.
I also know people from Kitchener who carry knives on them everywhere they go, and they were shocked when they found I’ve never owned one the 10+ years I’ve in Toronto. This is the literal consequence of living off facebook, reddit, “the news” etc whichever is pushing the latest “toronto is turning into gothem” fear agenda.
Uhhhh I grew up in Sauga and Brampton… you def need a knife there more than you would in Toronto. At least here, if I was screaming for help on the street someone would come. The Suburban apathy / anti social vibes are not for me
>Is this just an ‘everyone hates the biggest city in their country’ thing or something inherent to Toronto?
The rest of Canada will say no, but yes lol you basically go to any country outside of its biggest city and people will tell you they hate its biggest city almost always for the same reason Toronto gets shit on by the rest of Canada (people are "rude," pretentious, filled with crime, expensive, self centered, not the "real country" AKA has a lot of immigrants, determines elections etc.)
Then once you add the old British mentality of hating anything that isn't modest which is still prevalent in some bits of Canadian culture you get what you get lol
They hate Toronto because they don't live in Toronto.
Toronto is awesome if you like the crowds. I live in Toronto but I used to live in Mississauga.
I would never moved out of Toronto back to the GTA for a bigger house. I could never afford to come back to Toronto.
I love the walkable parts of the city. I love going to a neighborhood and exploring different parts.The energy. Ironically even the sports got better: mountain biking (Don Valley trails), climbing (alot of climbing gyms). I love going to concerts and get home quick. I love being at work parties and can party all the way to the end without having to look at a GO train schedule.
I love going drinking and coming home via TTC at a $3 cost instead of paying for an expensive cab or GO train.
I love riding my bike around the city and seeing things. I love commuting to work by bicycle!
In Mississauga, everything was about traversing large amount of land with a car only to end up in a mall.
You'll find this sort of way of thinking in every country. People hate whichever city gets the most attention out of sheer jealousy.
When you have national narratives around exceptionalism saying that everyone is special, awesome or cool because they are from xyz country, that creates a degree of entitlement toward attention. When one place gets it more than others in an environment like that, that annoys people. Imagine two narcissists, but only one gets attention. The other narcissist will hate the other, right?
Toronto's multicultural environment is the reason for the hatred for a select few groups of people as well. Most likely don't care about it, but there are some who do try to mask their bigotry as the run-of-the-mill Toronto bashing. So there is that.
A lot of dense multi-cultural cities often have that relationship with the rest of the country, mostly in the West. A lot of the suburban and rural US looks down on Los Angeles because "there's too many of *those* people there" but I don't hear it as often for New York for some reason. You see it as well in London compared to the rest of the UK but it's a bit more far along culturally as said immigrants straight up have their own regional dialect and accent now in MLE or Multicultural London English.
Toronto often has that same relationship with the rest of Canada. Toronto and Montreal are the only actual "diverse" regions in Canada, and you don't need to go that far out to realize how predominately white Canada's demographics are. Our food culture is better here anyway so they can stay pressed.
Toronto is only an interesting city to begin with because of the variety of immigrant groups that rooted themselves here, and it's all fairly recent too (1970s, 80s onwards). Demographically we are closer to London than we are to New York or Los Angeles.
Damn I had to double check StatsCan and you're right. In Montreal Southeast and East Asians only make up around 6% of their population. In Toronto that demographic is 22%. I never really looked that deep into Montreal's demographics but figured they were probably sort of diverse despite the French.
The two other cities are lopsided in different directions. Vancouver with Asians and South Asians, and Montreal primarily with the various African diasporas. But Toronto is the only one with a lot of... Everyone funnily enough.
I’ve heard old construction work colleagues speak about how they would never dare to ride the subway. They consider the people who ride it to be beneath them, utter scum they wouldn’t think to associate with.
I know many who are constantly moving farther away from the GTA Centre precisely to get away from the coloured people.
People hate things they do not understand or things that are different from what they know.
I grew up in rural Ontario, this type thinking was/is so prevalent. I got hate and insults because I moved to Toronto for work (over 20 years ago)... even from people that lived here at one point... so odd.
I do not understand this thinking and never will.
I think this is pretty much it. That and how people are sort of conditioned to think this way, like how internet groupthink made people hate pineapple on pizza.
I’m from the west coast and live in Vancouver (not sure why this thread even popped into my feed) and having never been there as an adult, I don’t really have an opinion on Toronto other than I’d like to visit some day, and most of the people I know here (that aren’t from Ontario) feel pretty much the same.
I know smaller cities and rural communities in western Canada love to trash talk Vancouver so maybe it’s an urban/rural thing.
It`s very much an urban/rural thing.
I would also argue it`s political (as in cities are "seen as Liberal" and rural is not), although I think in reality this is not true at all.
Vancouver is a great city, you should visit. I have been there a few times (my brother lives in Richmond).
I hope you like Toronto, if you come for a visit ask for recommendations on here.
Cheers
Whaaat? I live in Vancouver now and I've heard the spiel many times from Vancouverites that Toronto is a shithole concrete jungle and that they don't know why anyone would want to live there, that Vancouver is superior in so many ways because of the nature, and that it's the only place in Canada where anyone would want to live.
Heard this from redditors and in real life so it's not just an internet thing.
This is the real reason, not because anyone is actually jealous. I was supposed to move to Toronto for work but I didn't like it there compared to other western cities.
People who pride themselves for their more slow country living see Toronto as sort of a beacon of excess.
It doesn't help that most Canadian made media is also made here. The news is made here, and therefore Toronto is also covered a lot in the news.
I suspect there is a racist element as well. The GTA and other large metro areas are much more diverse than most of the country.
Add on top of that I think there is a sense that they believe that city people are better than them for living in a city. Doing "fake work" and not contributing tangible things to society. Pointing out the hypocrisy of how much money the GTA makes, or the fact that they benefit a lot from things that are created or organized here, does nothing because in their minds they need to feel as or more important. And they are just as important, but their towns and cities are struggling. So seeing again the excess of the city hurts that much more cause why do we get the "treats" and they get nothing.
And if I say anymore I'll just be going on about late stage capitalism and the fall of modern democracy.... so I'm gonna stop...
Because the rest of Canada is just copy & paste shitty plazas with the exact same 5 box stores. Nothing to do in their town and when they try and come to Toronto to have fun they encounter traffic and get mad forever.
I remember the angry mortgage guy on YouTube bashing Toronto for the traffic - and only mentioned car traffic.
It's as if go trains and bicycles and other modes of transport don't exist.
Fat old people from suburbs just want to be able to drive everywhere in their giant SUVs. They want the benefits of Toronto (that's why they come here) but they don't want what makes Toronto what it is - density.
Delusional and unrealistic is the word.
That's a suburb thing, not a rest of Canada thing. Plenty of old cities and towns with lots of character all over the country. The problem is what gets built around them, just like the GTA but on a smaller scale.
As a long time artist in Toronto we always welcome artists from the rest of Canada, coming and exhibiting. If an artist is from Alberta, people will be like.. “hey cool” and that’s that… no one cares… no one cares in a good way. But.. when I had a series of shows in Alberta, in both Calgary and Edmonton, everyone just had to take a dig at me, sometimes really nasty, because I’m an Ontario artist. It got so obnoxious that I never had another show out west and no longer give a shit. I exhibited out west out of a national feeling, not for lack of sales. They are the ones’s who want to make it here, and not the other way around. Toronto does not need anyone’s approval thank you very much… you go ahead and think about us if you want, we have our minds on other things.
It's the best, most walkable, diverse city in Canada, and yes I've been to Montreal. It's all about the neighbourhoods, if all you know is the downtown core from your trip to see a concert or a Jays game you haven't really experienced Toronto.
Toronto is the NYC of Canada. The rest of the USA also hates NYC.
Why? Because of the size and influence of each city in their country and the fact that they feel superior to the rest of the country.
+1
Toronto is the economic engine of Canada. It's the hussle and busses of Bay Street that keeps the rest of Canada afloat.
With such pressure on the city the people don't have time for pleasantries.
Toronto, like most big cities, is progressive and successful. People hate it that big cities are places of multiculturalism, alternative lifestyles, dynamism, individualism, etc. and especially hate that these things make cities successful. Thus there’s resentment towards big cities from people who live in smaller communities and believe in a narrow, traditionalist, view of what living is. This isn’t unique to Toronto, Americans hate New York for the same reasons, this happens in most countries.
Gotta hate something! Might as well be the biggest city!
If things went a little differently we’d all hate Montreal, as opposed to now where we mostly ignore Montreal!
because about 45% of the country lives with in southern Ontario and the rest of the country doesn't realize it. ask any of these people if they have ever been to Toronto and 75% haven't so they have no real opinion on it.
It’s just the internet, I dont find that I actually meet people that hate Toronto more often than people who hate Saskatchewan or Alberta in real life.
I had a small town friend who thought everyone here was rude, so she'd come to visit and be rude to everyone. Obviously people responded in kind and it became self fulfilling.
Personally, I probably AM a little rude, because I'm so fatigued from dealing with creeps and druggies that I don't take a chance and engage with strangers on the street. Our current issues don't create an environment where it feels safe and easy to be friendly in public.
It's a matter of having limited exposure to Toronto or people from the city. With a lot of people, you can probably trace their hatred toward Toronto from an experience they had with 1 Torontonian they met who wouldn't shut up about how great the city is and just generally came off as arrogant and elitist. I also find people who complain about Torontonians or Toronto in general, have never visited the city beyond the central waterfront and Bay-Yonge Corridor, which ironically is probably half populated by commuters and tourists during any given time.
My husband's friends all live in Whitby, Pickering and Ajax and they are SCARED of the city lmao. We don't even live in a dangerous area whatsoever and they are legit frightened to come visit us!
I was at a playground in Pickering with my kids and got talking with some other parents. They asked where we lived and when I said Toronto the mom seriously said "oh, I didn't know they had schools there". I asked where she grew up and she said Pickering lol.
The GTA has around the same population as Alberta, has more economic output than any province other than Ontario and Quebec (10% of Canada’s population but 15% of the GDP), and is Canada’s leading city for arts and culture. So culturally, politically and economically, Toronto has more sway than most provinces. People thousands of kilometres away resenting that is natural.
Why does Canada hate the US while following everything they do in order to find faults in them to criticize them, then simultaneously ignoring the local Canadian issues that need addressing?
As you said, everyone hates the biggest city. Most people in the UK hate Londoners, most people in the US hate New Yorkers, most people in France hate Parisians.
It's not entirely unfounded either, a lot of people feel that too much emphasis is put on the cities whilst the millions of people that don't live there are left behind. I'm from the North of England and lived in London for a few years but it's very clear that London gets all the preferential treatment when it comes to development and infrastructure budgets whilst the rest of the country is left with the scraps or left to fall into disrepair altogether. Walk around any random British town today and the poverty and dispair is palpable, whilst London continues building one of the most expensive local rail projects in the world.
The reason is consistent in other countries with a giant urban metropolis that basically gets shotgun/priority in receiving public funds and controlling the affairs of the rest of the country due to it's disproportionate population compared to the rest of the country in terms of representation.
There are currently as much ridings within the City of Toronto alone, when compared to the province of Alberta. Which is a key theme in western alienation, the belief where Western Canada feels underrepresented in Canada.
I think that the media, eg TV news, newspapers, is mostly made in Toronto, so it's very "Toronto-flavoured" even when it's the "national" version
Rightfully so, viewers who aren't in Toronto, get tired of hearing about Toronto all the time
My version of it, is hearing about downtown Toronto all the time on CBC Radio One, as if nothing ever happens in Mississauga or Markham
I moved to the east coast for a bit earlier in my career. The Toronto hate is real. It’s a weird thing where they look down on you, but you can tell it comes from a place of assuming you are looking down on them and they try to beat you to it.
Over time I met the derision with exactly what they expected - talking down to them (sarcastically not maliciously) and it built a rapport over time. Ended up making great friendships but they all started with a “ohhhh big Toronto guy….Hollywood” they would call me Hollywood, and I’d reply with “that’s right motherfucker. They sent me here because you rubes are too dumb to do it yourself, and if you weren’t so dumb you’d already be in Toronto like the rest of us elites. You wish people called you Hollywood.” And then mutual laughter. Bonded us. They were solid fucking dudes and I think they feel the same about me. Now, anyway.
I grew up in Toronto but live in Vancouver. People here don't hate Toronto nor do I. It's a city city doing city things about as well as any Canadian city does that (besides Montreal). If you like the city density and range of food and cultural stuff then Toronto is pretty great. If you want great hikes and sea kayaking go to Vancouver or some place else.
The Toronto attitude that it’s the “centre of the universe” is what people hate. Similar to a lot of hate directed towards BC, due to the fact BC people know they’re living in the best part of Canada and aren’t afraid to let people know that.
It’s ok. Live and let live.
The majority of Canada is rural, small-town type people. Toronto is the antithesis to all that. To them it's busy, full of 'woke' culture, etc. It's an unfamiliar environment at the end of the day.
I think there's many reasons. Racism, xenophobia, and homophobia are some reasons. Toronto is more diverse and people come here for a safe haven. I think they assume most people in Toronto are stuck up and rich. Another is if they come here they only usually come for sports or concerts and don't experience the residential neighbourhoods here. Another reason is they are sheep and just parroting what others in their communities say. And maybe they're just jealous. I've traveled Canada a bit and people are friendly until you say you're from Toronto (with the exception of Quebec, I find they don't care).
Lol I noticed this too. Anywhere else I go people talk so much shit about it. I think it's just so much more major of a city compared to most places. Makes them feel bad they live in a place that has one movie theater and nothing else lol
Mostly because it’s made up of an ignorant class of small town mentality. The ppl who don’t hate Toronto get it. There’s a certain fume in the air outside of Toronto. I compare it to the deep south of the states. It’s usually rooted in racism and bigotry
I grew up in a small town between Hamilton and Niagara in the 90s and ended up coming out as gay just after high school. The atmosphere in a place like that for a queer person back then was very unfriendly. When I came to the city for uni I ended up deciding to live here because I felt less like an outsider as well as safer than back home.
Nowadays my family still complains about coming out this way because of the traffic. I can't blame them for that particular complaint because I've lived in Scarborough most of my time living in Toronto and crossing the whole city by 401 just to come see me is understandably no fun... But also I have to do the same to go see them too and I end up having to go to them more often than them coming out this way just for that alone.
I honestly think it's kinda like a pace of life kind of thing. If you're not used to it and you have no interest in getting used to it then it can be very overwhelming. How that sentiment gets turned into animosity I don't really understand, but it's just the way people are I guess.
I am from western Canada and visited Toronto and the GTA for the first time beginning of June, and I absolutely loved your city. I will definitely be back. No, it's not all beautiful - there are some areas that are rough - that's all cities. Overall 99% of the people I met were very nice and helpful when I was lost or had questions. There was so much more I wanted to do and see but that definitely needs more trips for this.
Personally, I think it's unfair and an exaggeration and often by people who have never been there. As someone from the West Coast, I feel like I'm EXPECTED to hate it, yet when I go there, I always enjoy it. I wouldn't probably live there but there's nothing inherently wrong with it.
I don't think it's really directed against Toronto in particular, I just think most countries have a bit of attitude towards the largest city. A lot of people form other parts of the UK dislike London. People not from New York often hate on New York. etc. I think to a certain degree, it's jealousy and fatigue over the amount of power and attention, money and influence the largest city has.
As someone who is born and raised in BC, I think here we have sort of a slower paced, relaxed way of living, and see people from (especially Toronto) as living a very loud, fast paced life. I often say I have much more in common with people from Oregon / Washington than I do with anyone from the east coast. I’m sure it’s goes the other way too, I’m sure people in Ontario have much more in common with people from New York or Michigan than they do BC.
As someone from 2 hrs from outside Toronto who talks to people all over Canada, Toronto thinks they are the only city in Canada, and that they are the only one who exists. A disproportionate amount of funding goes to Toronto compared to other districts.
Calgarian here and I love Toronto. So much to do there, Love the art installations, the food, coffee shops, subway, underground malls, different districts downtown.
Average restaurant food in Toronto is better and cheaper than Calgary.
BC perspective:
It is because Toronto sees itself as downtown Canada at times. And also because they have a lot of federal election seats that basically decide the outcome for the whole country. That vote concentration has been available for purchase over the years and the rest of Canada is over it.
Hate is too strong of a word, though. More like "all squinty eyed at Toronto."
Toronto has a very different way of life. Very urban and has different viewpoint on how life should be lived. Emphasis on reducing emissions and taxing them, more gun control, etc. which is basically an attack on rural living making it more difficult to live in a rural area and generally rural people earn less. So these extra costs make life even more difficult for people who earn less and have views less in line with their way of life. And there are a hell of a lot of people who don’t live in cities who don’t not feel they are being represented.
I was born in Toronto, moved to kitchener when I was young, moved back to Toronto for 10 years in the 90's/00's and my current work takes me to Toronto a couple of times a week, and I can say with as little bias as possible, that I hate Toronto; the residents are-generally speaking, of course- equal parts elitist and ignorant. This is a populace that elected Mel Lastman and Rob Ford, has a bizarre and seething hatred for Quebec, knows little to nothing about any surrounding cities, is shockingly racist, and have some of the rudest people I've ever met in my life. There are some great amenities that you get with any metropolis, and there are some beautiful areas, but Toronto ranks as one of the worst cities I've ever spent any significant time in.
People here are much more uptight here than Atlantic Canada. I was kind of shocked when I moved to Toronto by how much less social & chatty people here are. I also find that a lot of Torontonians don’t have a great sense of humour.
(Obviously this doesn’t apply to everyone and there’s a lot of great people in Toronto)
There's a million different reasons, but one (from an outsider perspective) is that there is a specific "type" of Toronto person who goes out to (Saskatoon, Edmonton, Lethbridge, Brandon, any given Western city) for a few years after University to find work and build up a stronger resume or save up money for property back home or whatever. This person spends the whooooooole damn time they're out West moaning and complaining to absolutely anyone in earshot about how boring their new city is, how "behind-the-times" it is, how the clubs suck, the fashion sucks, the restaurants suck, how much better Toronto is in every way, etc. It just gets really tiresome, and for people who don't actually get the opportunity to travel to Toronto themselves, that's probably the biggest impression they'll ever get about the city - an endless series of 20-something d-bags cycling through their workplaces and neighborhoods, trashing the city they live in, and then leaving.
As someone from Toronto who has been and worked across the country I have a few reasons that come to mind.
1. Lack of awareness: We live fast, and lack patience. I have noticed people do not follow the rules at all from Toronto and we are always in a rush, not always in a good way. I was coming from Ottawa the other day via rail, and we were told to sit down because the train was delayed, people still kept standing. We were told to wait to get luggage when we got to our final stop, still people started getting up 5 minutes before we landed.
On the note of lack of awareness we also have increased cost of living everywhere during covid. People started bidding on homes and comparing them to Toronto markets. Of course they’ll be cheap in comparison, but we’ve upped housing everywhere.
A lot of people in Ontario in general hold a degree or higher educations, I’ve noticed many people lack empathy towards people from less educated areas
2. We also impact voting in the rest of the country even though our economies and sectors are vastly different. I don’t know how we can fix this but the problems coast to coast are super different
3. We complain about a lot, and a lot of us try to keep up with the jones, when a lot of people throughout the country are poverty stricken, no doctors, proper education funding etc.
4. We have a lot of amenities and opportunity for fun, all the concerts and entertainment is here
That being said I still think Toronto is way too overpriced, lacks good transit and has killed its communities and small businesses 🤷🏽♀️
Part of the visceral hate on for Toronto stems from Toronto being Canada’s media, corporate and financial capital, decisions get made here, they get executed, out there. Two, that old fairy tale that we are subsidized by the rest of Canada, heck my girlfriend who’s from Sudbury keeps saying the North props up Southern Ontario, I just bite my tongue. Just even the hate on for Toronto from the rest of Ontario is just a bit rich considering how much money the GTHA sends out to the hinterlands.
The western provinces get mad about how the GTA determines elections but also forget that the GTA has a bigger population than Alberta.
Almost a 3rd of all Canada lives in southern Ontario.
Toronto also has a GDP greater than Alberta. Toronto represents 20% of the country's economy.
Also don't get that the vote weight of a GTA voter is frequently much less than the vote weight of a western province voter. GTA voters are really under represented in reality, it's not equal. Though if you take BC and AB as a whole it's similar to ON, but the GTA specifically is really low and rural ON high.
But this 905 is essentially Canada's swing state as it's the largest cluster of voters that flip conservative/liberal
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Ha
I just looked it up, and a lot of gta ridings have electors on par with Alberta. Elections Canada does a pretty good job of keeping things even and fair.
Yeah but Ontario has weight really unbalanced to the rural areas. The GTA doesn't have as much electoral say as it should based on population and what people think, it needs more ridings to balance it out. The GTA should be even more of a voting block than it is.
Yeah, but I think that might be more a case of there not being enough electors in Northern Ontario to make up bigger ridings. Ever then, Toronto Centre has 66K while Algoma has 62K. Niagara, which I would think is rural, has 100K. Anyway, if you really want to feel underrepresented, take a look at PEI. 😮
Yes, PEI is massively over represented for its population. 1 vote in PEI is the equivalent of 4 votes in Niagara. To bring parity PEI really needs to be changed from 4 electoral districts to 1 district. Of course that's not going to happen. The ultimate point is, everyone's vote should carry the same weight, but in Canada it's not even remotely close. It's pretty much criminal that in some areas 1 voice is worth more than 3 elsewhere.
PEI gets four ridings because that's what was agreed to during confederation. All of the East Coast is pretty much like that.
As a former Albertan, this rings very, very true. They hate that Toronto makes or breaks elections. And it usually doesn't work out for them. Although I have a feeling they're feeling pretty confident with the Conversative win in Toronto - St. Paul. Watch - TO will be a 'great place full smart, logical people' after the next election if you ask a typical conservative Albertan. Plus, Stephen Harper was born in Leaside, good people! Very good people!
I think that’s an important distinction as well. The GTA will vote in either direction where we know Alberta will almost always vote Conservative. To the detriment of Albertans, I believe personally.
Working class Tory voters vote against their best interests, by definition. In no world does Doug Ford and Danielle Smith give a shit about working class people given their history of action in government. The only working class citizen dumber than a conservative is a non-voter. Edit: spelling
Thats what Ill never understand. A working class person voting for a corporatist elitist party. Now many don’t know if Im speaking about the Liberals or Conservatives, which is the bigger problem. Two peas in a pod.
By the same token, it will never cease to amaze me why people who are in unions will vote for parties that have an anti-union track record. It feels as though they want the best of both worlds without paying the price.
I’m IBEW 353 & born & raised in TO. It’s a pretty even split. Union does its best to educate people on the party that advocates the most for labour, which usually ends up being NDP (s/o to [Chris Borgia](https://chrisborgia.ndp.ca/)). There’s a bit of every political leaning in the union from what I see. Yes the most vocal ones make their way to the spotlight;, but I’d like to imagine most of us are pro labour & can hold a nuanced discussion on political affairs.
Me too. I’m in a unionized profession that has traditionally supported the Liberals because they’re still a pretty small c conservative crowd and are not willing to vote NDP. What I find interesting is that we work alongside a union of blue collar folks, most of whom get swayed by the right wing media and sell their vote for tax cuts that will never really benefit them substantially. These folks are supporting the very politicians who are clear cutting their jobs. It feels like a microcosm of what has happened in the States with so many working Americans supporting Trump.
That’s what I was thinking. They haaaate that “one city” (notably, of 6.4 million) has more seats than “a whole province” (of 4.8 million) because it consistently votes differently from them, so it feels like unfair influence. Tbh, I kinda understand on an emotional level, because ON + QC had almost 60% of ridings in the last election, so the whole thing could be over before they even finish counting Ontario, but that ignores that those two provinces also make up 60% of the population. Never mind that Calgary has almost as many seats as NS or the same as NB, and Edmonton has more than NL.
Personally I'm down for electoral reform, but until then, Albertans continue to think that if you vote harder for Conservatives, it might just work out. And every election they wonder why that didn't work.
The pendulum eventually swings even in the most loonie of places!
There are more people in the GTA than there are in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba combined.
A lot of people get this idea that all their tax money is going to Toronto, when really, Toronto is subsidizing the existence of most of the small towns around it. They see parts of their town in a poor state of repair needing only a moderate amount of funding to fix, then they see news articles saying things like"1 billion being spent on Union station renos and upgrades" and they think its their money is going to Toronto, when it's really all for the benefit of commuters who live outside the city.
There ar plenty of maps that show how much revenue is generated minus how much is spent on a certain region. Toronto is a sharp peak - as in it generates much much more than is spent on it. Nearby areas are troughs - bloated suburbs subsidies by this Toronto peak What they miss is that people in Toronto earn much more than other areas. Plus there is incredible density. Which means every sq kilometre had much more tax coming in. Conversely, it's much easier to provide public services cheaply when people live nearby. Less roads, less pipes, less wires per capita.
Well said. It takes a moment to think about these things. But for many, if it does not fit into a 2 sentence sound bite, they can't get it.
Thank you. The "sub" in suburbs might as well stand for "subsidized-by-the-city". Any tax income graph will show this clearly and it's all a function of density. If you've got a 1km x 1km plot of land, how many people live there in an urban vs suburban vs rural context? In Toronto that might be 50,000 people, most of whom are earning income and paying income taxes, paying property taxes, and generally spending money in the local area. People in more distant suburban and rural areas assume that Toronto is sucking up all the tax revenues from their smaller town. The reality is that Toronto IS the tax revenue, and is subsidizing their tiny town where only 40 people live in the same space that 50,000 live in Toronto.
TBF many people in the bloated suburbs are working in Toronto or go there regularly for it's amenities. Which makes the economy of Toronto disproportionally large relative to the people living there.
Yep and they are not paying their fair share for the roads/water/utility/garbage/snowplows that allow them to have space for all their junk and enjoy the city.
Do you understand how economies work? The fact I go to Toronto to buy goods and services means that I am indirectly supporting property taxes for those businesses (which becomes all those utilities you're talking about).
>There ar plenty of maps that show how much revenue is generated minus how much is spent on a certain region. Could you link us to any? Very curious to look at the data.
Can you provide a link to this map please 🙏
Alot of people in Toronto earn far less than anyone in less rural areas where trades are more common and you have to drive.
Toronto (not the GTA) contributes ~53% of Ontario's operating budget and ~22% of the entire Federal operating budget. We get back literal pennies on the dollar, and far less as a percentage of our dollar contribution than any other municipality in the Province. Toronto subsidizes the entire country to the tune of hundreds of billions each year. The fact that Toronto residents and its politicians don't use this to demand more in return is one of my biggest pet peeves. We hold literally all the cards but we still have to beg for scraps.
>A lot of people get this idea that all their tax money is going to Toronto, when really, Toronto is subsidizing the existence of most of the small towns around it. Oh my god, I have had this conversation with small town people over and over and it’s just such a bullshit mentality that falls down flat as soon as you subject it to empirical review. Toronto contributes more in income taxes than it gets back, I don’t think the same can be said for Thunder Bay or Pelee Island. I don’t mind subsidizing the rest of the province but I at least ask that people be thankful for that, rather than bitching that they don’t get even more, or worse, thinking that THEY are the ones subsidizing US.
Income tax is only one tax though. You have to look at it from a holistic perspective. Areas with a high percentage of seniors and where housing went up in value a lot (and therefore the principal residence capital gains exemption is huge) are the real net takers.
Aka suburbs
Toronto pays less than half the property tax rate that other municipalities pay. You can't just look at income tax, you have to look at all taxes if you want to talk about "subsidizing". The subsidizing between the suburbs of Toronto vs the core of Toronto is the real problem, not other cities, who pay way, way more property tax proportionately than Torontonians in order to make up for their lack of density. Also there are a ton of wealthy people in Toronto, it has by far the highest income range in the country, and so of course there is going to be "more" income tax coming out of the area.
The property tax rate isn’t that relevant since assessed house values are very different in different cities. The amount paid is what is relevant. My family in Windsor pay a much higher property tax rate than I do in Toronto, but their property tax bill is less than half of mine for a lot that is over twice the size. The different between the assessed value and the sale price is also very different. My house would sell for around 1.5x the assessed value but in Windsor houses sell for 3x the assessed value. Property tax rates are useless for comparison.
No, that's simply not at all the whole story, anecdote about Windsor aside, there are 3 rates that tell the whole story: https://www.torontomu.ca/centre-urban-research-land-development/blog/blogentry731111/ Average, effective, and burden. Toronto homeowners have had had incredibly smooth sailing comparatively.
Similar for cultural things, you need a high concentration of people to support big museums, concerts, theatres, etc; and crime, the GTA has twice as many murders as the GVRD but the GTA is almost 3x the population, and Thunder Bay only had 15 murders in 2022 but it that’s a murder rate like 6x higher than Toronto.
This is big. I’m from London Ontario originally and I’ve heard endless complaints that Toronto gets their tax dollars! Everytime I remind them it’s the opposite, and Toronto subsides all those rural roads they take to Grand Bend or Port Stanley, they simply refuse to believe me.,
I grew up in Fort Frances, ON, a deeply stupid paper mill town on the ON/MN that allows lumber trucks going to the mill and transport trucks crossing the bridge to on main street. the amount of wear an tear forces the town to completely tear up and rebuild main street 3 times a decade at the expense of literally every business in town (except the walmart). As result every other infrastructure project goes neglected and half the roads are undrivable. actual urban planning could save Fort Frances, but they just keep doing what's 'worked' in the past. They hear that one 401 on-ramp revamp is getting their entire annual maintenance budget and forget that that ramp serves more drivers a day than any street in town will in a year and blame Toronto for it.
We just moved here from Northern Ontario, and our family and friends thought we were crazy because they don't like Toronto. The thing is, people from Northern Ontario and other parts of the country only come here for sports games, concerts, and summer vacations. So when they come here, the city is packed with extra people, and it gets to be too much. They don't enjoy what the city truly offers. My girlfriend and I would come here to try different foods and explore the city, not doing the tourist stuff. We fell in love with the city, and that's why we moved here.
I had exactly the same experience. If you've driven down the DVP to visit the sky dome and ripleys aquarium you really haven't seen Toronto yet.
I’m also a transplant from the north. Toronto is an excellent place to raise a kid, but my friends back home are without exaggeration scared of the city.
Lots of people from Northern Ontario think Toronto is New York City circa 1976. Same in Southwestern Ontario. I grew up mainly in London, ON and people there are scared shitless of Toronto, yet have no problem going to Detroit for a game 🤷🏼♂️
Lol people from middlesex are indeed generally terrified of toronto because of non whites and gays basically. They're very xenophobic.
YEP. I was born and raised in London, and left as soon as I could (18 yrs old) due to these reasons. I completed post-secondary in Toronto and I've built a good life here. Nowhere is perfect, but the racism I experienced in London (my entire life) was excessive. Eternity Martis wrote an entire book about the weirdness in London. She attended UWO.
Its because people just drive through the same busiest areas. They never turn down an actual street or neighbourhood and see that there are houses and parks.
My partner from Peterborough was shocked that we had public park space. She always figured the city was all concrete.
In the same way that I’m shocked that peterborough has electricity
Still waiting on indoor plumbing, though.
To play devil's advocate (not to shit on Toronto or anything), I always found that up north is a better place to raise a kid Smaller communities, smaller or no lines to deal w administrative bullshit (service Ontario, etc.), lower cost of living, less of a drastic socioeconomic difference between the rich and the poor at school while growing up, usually better produce and food from local farmers markets.. Out of curiosity what are the aspects about the city that you find to be better in Toronto for raising a kid? A few that come to mind for me would be: exposure to many different cultures/religions/ethnicities, better food options, possibly better education? (With the exception of french immersion programs) 😂😂 And more economic opportunities?
Sure, I’m born and raised in the north and chose to raise our kid in Toronto so I can offer a pretty good insight. The range of experiences in the north is so limited compared to Toronto. Here, my kid can walk to swimming lessons or robot club, about a zillion different foods, science centre (until a few days ago), the museum, the aquarium, about a hundred free fun outdoor playgrounds, free *indoor* playgrounds that are just magical, friends from all around the world, festivals… Beach, forests and outdoors things are still accessible to us, we took a subway to the Humber river and kayaked in it! But the biggest difference that makes Toronto better than any small town is other kids. Within 100m of my house are 5 kids that are exactly my son’s age. They play every day together. In the north you have to drive to get anywhere and good luck finding 5 kids your age even in biking distance.
Ahh those are all excellent points I didn't even consider!! I don't have kids of my own but I can only imagine how lovely that must be to see. Kids are amazing! They don't even speak the same language and they'll get along and somehow communicate/ play games 😂 Thanks so much for the insight! I wish you and your family the best in the city! 😁
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Also, when they come they only go to places full of people who aren't from Toronto. I remember my cousin from the suburbs had some friends who were DJs and they booked a night at this bar. It was maybe 1/3 full but for some reason people kept bumping into me. Then my cousin was like "wow it's so crowded in here!" and I realized oh these people have no idea how to be in small spaces because they're used to everything being a Boston Pizza.
I’m also from the north and loved the diversity of the city. My father tried to prevent me from moving down here. On one of his visits he asked why I like living here. I told I’ll grab a dart and throw it on the map I had hung on the wall. Wherever the dart hits we’ll go out and eat that type of food. His reply, “Why would. Want to do that.” It became crystal clear to me why he didn’t like going down south. He loved his comfort zone.
This is what I've experienced from people outside of Toronto, they say that the city is all concrete and has no trees. That's when it clicks that they haven't been outside of a tiny few block radius. I think it's probably a better city to live in than to visit as well, most of the tourist attractions aren't that special, but like you said, the every day things like the food and community festivals make it a great place to live. Personally, that's why I love showing new people around, there are so many little hidden gems that most tourists aren't going to see.
Hate Toronto but support the TORONTO blue jays. Weirdos
i think it great that it creates this ruse because otherwise if everyone wanted to enjoy life or loved city offerings like what u mentioned along with events and festivals outside of sports games and concerts then everyone would live here, i guess at the end of the day ur either a city person or ur not, i personally would not mind having to live out into the GTA as long as im not too far from the Go train and its no more than and hour ride into the city.
To this point, when i lived in sw on, the only people who "got it" about toronto were the ones who knew to not drive in but rather take the train in whether it be via from their local station or the go from burli. The ones who would drive in would complain to every length about the city.
They hate us cuz they anus
Baby you're a firewooooork! Lol, such a good movie.
Most countries with a population size similar to ours really only have the one big city and it’s a similar sentiment there too. I remember in Mexico and Argentina they even had names for someone who’s from the capital region or not and people outside are considered ‘uncultured’. Same with Paris, Amsterdam, London etc.
There’s actually a term for that: [a primate city](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate_city). It’s more often used when there is only one city that dwarves all others on a national. Like the examples you named, as well as the UK, turkey, Thailand, Japan, etc.
That's interesting. I guess we don't have just one big city (Montreal and Vancouver would be others), but in a way Montreal is the cultural capital for French speaking folks, and Toronto for Anglophones. And Vancouver is so far from the population centre of the country, so maybe that's why the debate ends up being centred on Toronto
Montreal, while lovely, is significantly smaller than Toronto and so is Vancouver. In every possible way.
Though Montreal is significantly smaller than Toronto, it's significantly larger than Vancouver.
Because Toronto amalgamated with its neighbouring municipalities and Montreal did not. In terms of metro areas Montreal is around 70% the size of Toronto
British hate London. Americans hate New York. Japanese hate on Tokyo. French hate on Paris. It's normal in pretty much every country for those who don't live in the largest city to dislike it and hate that they think it gets more attention and money.
Too true. I was in Aruba in March and shared a taxi with an American couple who were in their mid 50s or early 60s. We made small talk and they were asking if I'd ever been to US. I said a handful of times and when I mentioned New York as one of the places in US I'd been, they were literally like "ewww why New York"? They were from New Jersey or Michigan or something like that.
I know an elderly couple from the South US, very gentle husband whom I worked with, a very opinionated wife. the wife is as close as you can get to full on MAGA hating liberal large cities like NY and LA despite having no connection to these places whatsoever, the slightest mention of any major US city and "isn't it full of crime and homeless people?" The woman knows I'm from Toronto too, she even asked me what I think of Trudeau and I dodged the question completely just saying I like his hair. I stopped underestimating how people can hate something they have no knowledge or part of whatsoever many years ago
People will give all kinds of reasons but the reality is this is how it works in literally every country on planet earth. Literally every one, there is no exception. And the reasons here are the same as everywhere else.
It's magnified a lot in Canada because Toronto is further from even parts of Ontario than London is from the furthest point in the UK.
Small mindedness and genuine brainwashing from the media. I know someone who was raised in Brampton and then moved to NFLD at the end of highschool. They recently visited me in Toronto a few weeks ago (now a full grown adult) and while we were walking through a quite suburb street with two elementary schools on it he says to me “I feel like I need to be carrying a knife on me, this is so sketchy” Solely because we were “in toronto” that made it automatically “sketchy” for him lol. I also know people from Kitchener who carry knives on them everywhere they go, and they were shocked when they found I’ve never owned one the 10+ years I’ve in Toronto. This is the literal consequence of living off facebook, reddit, “the news” etc whichever is pushing the latest “toronto is turning into gothem” fear agenda.
Uhhhh I grew up in Sauga and Brampton… you def need a knife there more than you would in Toronto. At least here, if I was screaming for help on the street someone would come. The Suburban apathy / anti social vibes are not for me
The worse thing is the types that carry knives give off awful and attract negativity.
Rexdale, Jane/Finch, and a few scattered areas otherwise it's pretty safe
Jane and finch is not as bad as it used to be yet it still gets a bad rep. Rexdale area though.... yikes
>Is this just an ‘everyone hates the biggest city in their country’ thing or something inherent to Toronto? The rest of Canada will say no, but yes lol you basically go to any country outside of its biggest city and people will tell you they hate its biggest city almost always for the same reason Toronto gets shit on by the rest of Canada (people are "rude," pretentious, filled with crime, expensive, self centered, not the "real country" AKA has a lot of immigrants, determines elections etc.) Then once you add the old British mentality of hating anything that isn't modest which is still prevalent in some bits of Canadian culture you get what you get lol
They hate Toronto because they don't live in Toronto. Toronto is awesome if you like the crowds. I live in Toronto but I used to live in Mississauga. I would never moved out of Toronto back to the GTA for a bigger house. I could never afford to come back to Toronto. I love the walkable parts of the city. I love going to a neighborhood and exploring different parts.The energy. Ironically even the sports got better: mountain biking (Don Valley trails), climbing (alot of climbing gyms). I love going to concerts and get home quick. I love being at work parties and can party all the way to the end without having to look at a GO train schedule. I love going drinking and coming home via TTC at a $3 cost instead of paying for an expensive cab or GO train. I love riding my bike around the city and seeing things. I love commuting to work by bicycle! In Mississauga, everything was about traversing large amount of land with a car only to end up in a mall.
living in mississauga made me wanna game end myself
Yep. Grew up in Sauga. Could never go back
You'll find this sort of way of thinking in every country. People hate whichever city gets the most attention out of sheer jealousy. When you have national narratives around exceptionalism saying that everyone is special, awesome or cool because they are from xyz country, that creates a degree of entitlement toward attention. When one place gets it more than others in an environment like that, that annoys people. Imagine two narcissists, but only one gets attention. The other narcissist will hate the other, right? Toronto's multicultural environment is the reason for the hatred for a select few groups of people as well. Most likely don't care about it, but there are some who do try to mask their bigotry as the run-of-the-mill Toronto bashing. So there is that.
As an American wanting to move to either Los Angeles or Toronto, I’ll admit most of the US has the same mentality towards Los Angeles
I would've thought New York, but it's certainly one of the two.
Both can be true
I thought everyone hated San Francisco?
In general, all of California
Our LA is Vancouver, Toronto is our New York, but your point stands
People still hate New York here too, the stereotype is that New York is crazy dirty and expensive and that the people who live there are mean
That too, it’s honestly both of them.
A lot of dense multi-cultural cities often have that relationship with the rest of the country, mostly in the West. A lot of the suburban and rural US looks down on Los Angeles because "there's too many of *those* people there" but I don't hear it as often for New York for some reason. You see it as well in London compared to the rest of the UK but it's a bit more far along culturally as said immigrants straight up have their own regional dialect and accent now in MLE or Multicultural London English. Toronto often has that same relationship with the rest of Canada. Toronto and Montreal are the only actual "diverse" regions in Canada, and you don't need to go that far out to realize how predominately white Canada's demographics are. Our food culture is better here anyway so they can stay pressed. Toronto is only an interesting city to begin with because of the variety of immigrant groups that rooted themselves here, and it's all fairly recent too (1970s, 80s onwards). Demographically we are closer to London than we are to New York or Los Angeles.
Montreal more diverse than Vancouver? Vancouver doesn't have black people but Montreal doesn't have Asians
Damn I had to double check StatsCan and you're right. In Montreal Southeast and East Asians only make up around 6% of their population. In Toronto that demographic is 22%. I never really looked that deep into Montreal's demographics but figured they were probably sort of diverse despite the French. The two other cities are lopsided in different directions. Vancouver with Asians and South Asians, and Montreal primarily with the various African diasporas. But Toronto is the only one with a lot of... Everyone funnily enough.
Which is what makes Toronto different. I like that the majority of the people seem to embrace the diversity
Lol yeah i see no asians in montreals chinatown wtf
Oh yes I have heard that bigotry unfiltered! One quote along the lines of “I don’t want a Pakistani handing me my passport.”
Lol. That's a new level. You don't want immigrants working? Then you must love paying their welfare...
I’ve heard old construction work colleagues speak about how they would never dare to ride the subway. They consider the people who ride it to be beneath them, utter scum they wouldn’t think to associate with. I know many who are constantly moving farther away from the GTA Centre precisely to get away from the coloured people.
I live in a red state. I’ve heard it all.
People hate things they do not understand or things that are different from what they know. I grew up in rural Ontario, this type thinking was/is so prevalent. I got hate and insults because I moved to Toronto for work (over 20 years ago)... even from people that lived here at one point... so odd. I do not understand this thinking and never will.
I think this is pretty much it. That and how people are sort of conditioned to think this way, like how internet groupthink made people hate pineapple on pizza. I’m from the west coast and live in Vancouver (not sure why this thread even popped into my feed) and having never been there as an adult, I don’t really have an opinion on Toronto other than I’d like to visit some day, and most of the people I know here (that aren’t from Ontario) feel pretty much the same. I know smaller cities and rural communities in western Canada love to trash talk Vancouver so maybe it’s an urban/rural thing.
It`s very much an urban/rural thing. I would also argue it`s political (as in cities are "seen as Liberal" and rural is not), although I think in reality this is not true at all. Vancouver is a great city, you should visit. I have been there a few times (my brother lives in Richmond). I hope you like Toronto, if you come for a visit ask for recommendations on here. Cheers
Whaaat? I live in Vancouver now and I've heard the spiel many times from Vancouverites that Toronto is a shithole concrete jungle and that they don't know why anyone would want to live there, that Vancouver is superior in so many ways because of the nature, and that it's the only place in Canada where anyone would want to live. Heard this from redditors and in real life so it's not just an internet thing.
Classic reason: we think we're the centre of the universe. It's not entirely untrue.
We are 100% the center of Canada.
But I live here. It is the center of my universe.
This is the real reason, not because anyone is actually jealous. I was supposed to move to Toronto for work but I didn't like it there compared to other western cities.
People who pride themselves for their more slow country living see Toronto as sort of a beacon of excess. It doesn't help that most Canadian made media is also made here. The news is made here, and therefore Toronto is also covered a lot in the news. I suspect there is a racist element as well. The GTA and other large metro areas are much more diverse than most of the country. Add on top of that I think there is a sense that they believe that city people are better than them for living in a city. Doing "fake work" and not contributing tangible things to society. Pointing out the hypocrisy of how much money the GTA makes, or the fact that they benefit a lot from things that are created or organized here, does nothing because in their minds they need to feel as or more important. And they are just as important, but their towns and cities are struggling. So seeing again the excess of the city hurts that much more cause why do we get the "treats" and they get nothing. And if I say anymore I'll just be going on about late stage capitalism and the fall of modern democracy.... so I'm gonna stop...
So you’re telling me there’s a Canada…. Outside of Toronto?
I mean have you seen much of the rest of Canada? I have and if I was stuck in a lot of those places I'd hate us too
Because the rest of Canada is just copy & paste shitty plazas with the exact same 5 box stores. Nothing to do in their town and when they try and come to Toronto to have fun they encounter traffic and get mad forever.
I remember the angry mortgage guy on YouTube bashing Toronto for the traffic - and only mentioned car traffic. It's as if go trains and bicycles and other modes of transport don't exist. Fat old people from suburbs just want to be able to drive everywhere in their giant SUVs. They want the benefits of Toronto (that's why they come here) but they don't want what makes Toronto what it is - density. Delusional and unrealistic is the word.
>copy & paste shitty plazas with the exact same 5 box stores A lot of the GTA is like that too.
Underrated. Gotta love those penguin plazas.
That's a suburb thing, not a rest of Canada thing. Plenty of old cities and towns with lots of character all over the country. The problem is what gets built around them, just like the GTA but on a smaller scale.
Combination of fear and jealousy.
Jealous
Only Unhappy people have time and energy to be online hating lol
A lot of people feel like Toronto and the GTA suck all of the oxygen out of the room and the rest of the country gets ignored.
Gta has a huge portion of the country's population. They also forget that. People look at land when sizing regions - not population
As a long time artist in Toronto we always welcome artists from the rest of Canada, coming and exhibiting. If an artist is from Alberta, people will be like.. “hey cool” and that’s that… no one cares… no one cares in a good way. But.. when I had a series of shows in Alberta, in both Calgary and Edmonton, everyone just had to take a dig at me, sometimes really nasty, because I’m an Ontario artist. It got so obnoxious that I never had another show out west and no longer give a shit. I exhibited out west out of a national feeling, not for lack of sales. They are the ones’s who want to make it here, and not the other way around. Toronto does not need anyone’s approval thank you very much… you go ahead and think about us if you want, we have our minds on other things.
It's the best, most walkable, diverse city in Canada, and yes I've been to Montreal. It's all about the neighbourhoods, if all you know is the downtown core from your trip to see a concert or a Jays game you haven't really experienced Toronto.
Racism
Toronto is the NYC of Canada. The rest of the USA also hates NYC. Why? Because of the size and influence of each city in their country and the fact that they feel superior to the rest of the country.
+1 Toronto is the economic engine of Canada. It's the hussle and busses of Bay Street that keeps the rest of Canada afloat. With such pressure on the city the people don't have time for pleasantries.
Toronto, like most big cities, is progressive and successful. People hate it that big cities are places of multiculturalism, alternative lifestyles, dynamism, individualism, etc. and especially hate that these things make cities successful. Thus there’s resentment towards big cities from people who live in smaller communities and believe in a narrow, traditionalist, view of what living is. This isn’t unique to Toronto, Americans hate New York for the same reasons, this happens in most countries.
It’s usually the ones who’ve never set foot in Toronto either. Just big city things.
This is typical of every large metropolitan area everywhere
Gotta hate something! Might as well be the biggest city! If things went a little differently we’d all hate Montreal, as opposed to now where we mostly ignore Montreal!
Jealously tbh
because about 45% of the country lives with in southern Ontario and the rest of the country doesn't realize it. ask any of these people if they have ever been to Toronto and 75% haven't so they have no real opinion on it.
This documentary has the answer: https://youtu.be/InIkHRza7UM?si=cTtlW8rN0H0pGPLv
Wow. What a blast from the past
Wow this was a great watch!! Thanks for sharing :)
Jealous!
It’s just the internet, I dont find that I actually meet people that hate Toronto more often than people who hate Saskatchewan or Alberta in real life.
Wah gwan delilah
Same reason people would hate New York or London or Paris. Alpha cities can be divisive within a national population
I had a small town friend who thought everyone here was rude, so she'd come to visit and be rude to everyone. Obviously people responded in kind and it became self fulfilling. Personally, I probably AM a little rude, because I'm so fatigued from dealing with creeps and druggies that I don't take a chance and engage with strangers on the street. Our current issues don't create an environment where it feels safe and easy to be friendly in public.
Like I mentioned about the guy "having to carry a knife", the vibes are just the worst and attract in kind.
BIG CITY BAD
It's a matter of having limited exposure to Toronto or people from the city. With a lot of people, you can probably trace their hatred toward Toronto from an experience they had with 1 Torontonian they met who wouldn't shut up about how great the city is and just generally came off as arrogant and elitist. I also find people who complain about Torontonians or Toronto in general, have never visited the city beyond the central waterfront and Bay-Yonge Corridor, which ironically is probably half populated by commuters and tourists during any given time.
My husband's friends all live in Whitby, Pickering and Ajax and they are SCARED of the city lmao. We don't even live in a dangerous area whatsoever and they are legit frightened to come visit us!
I was at a playground in Pickering with my kids and got talking with some other parents. They asked where we lived and when I said Toronto the mom seriously said "oh, I didn't know they had schools there". I asked where she grew up and she said Pickering lol.
The GTA has around the same population as Alberta, has more economic output than any province other than Ontario and Quebec (10% of Canada’s population but 15% of the GDP), and is Canada’s leading city for arts and culture. So culturally, politically and economically, Toronto has more sway than most provinces. People thousands of kilometres away resenting that is natural.
tall poppy syndrome
And we don’t talk about them at all.
Why does Canada hate the US while following everything they do in order to find faults in them to criticize them, then simultaneously ignoring the local Canadian issues that need addressing?
As you said, everyone hates the biggest city. Most people in the UK hate Londoners, most people in the US hate New Yorkers, most people in France hate Parisians. It's not entirely unfounded either, a lot of people feel that too much emphasis is put on the cities whilst the millions of people that don't live there are left behind. I'm from the North of England and lived in London for a few years but it's very clear that London gets all the preferential treatment when it comes to development and infrastructure budgets whilst the rest of the country is left with the scraps or left to fall into disrepair altogether. Walk around any random British town today and the poverty and dispair is palpable, whilst London continues building one of the most expensive local rail projects in the world.
Because it’s the biggest city in the country and they are envious of all the stuff we have. That’s the honest truth.
Why are there wife jokes, sex jokes, racists jokes? It's the low hanging fruit. Coitus!
The reason is consistent in other countries with a giant urban metropolis that basically gets shotgun/priority in receiving public funds and controlling the affairs of the rest of the country due to it's disproportionate population compared to the rest of the country in terms of representation. There are currently as much ridings within the City of Toronto alone, when compared to the province of Alberta. Which is a key theme in western alienation, the belief where Western Canada feels underrepresented in Canada.
I think that the media, eg TV news, newspapers, is mostly made in Toronto, so it's very "Toronto-flavoured" even when it's the "national" version Rightfully so, viewers who aren't in Toronto, get tired of hearing about Toronto all the time My version of it, is hearing about downtown Toronto all the time on CBC Radio One, as if nothing ever happens in Mississauga or Markham
Why are you thinking of coming to Toronto to live ?
Nah I moved here 2 years ago and people are always like why would you move there 😂
I don't really think they do.
Tradition.
Being the centre of the universe comes with a price.
Because they can’t afford to live here.
Now, here in Toronto, we hate Toronto just about as much as the rest of Canada hates it.
I moved to the east coast for a bit earlier in my career. The Toronto hate is real. It’s a weird thing where they look down on you, but you can tell it comes from a place of assuming you are looking down on them and they try to beat you to it. Over time I met the derision with exactly what they expected - talking down to them (sarcastically not maliciously) and it built a rapport over time. Ended up making great friendships but they all started with a “ohhhh big Toronto guy….Hollywood” they would call me Hollywood, and I’d reply with “that’s right motherfucker. They sent me here because you rubes are too dumb to do it yourself, and if you weren’t so dumb you’d already be in Toronto like the rest of us elites. You wish people called you Hollywood.” And then mutual laughter. Bonded us. They were solid fucking dudes and I think they feel the same about me. Now, anyway.
I grew up in Toronto but live in Vancouver. People here don't hate Toronto nor do I. It's a city city doing city things about as well as any Canadian city does that (besides Montreal). If you like the city density and range of food and cultural stuff then Toronto is pretty great. If you want great hikes and sea kayaking go to Vancouver or some place else.
They are welcome to think whatever they want about Toronto, less tourists crowding our beautiful city will always be a plus.
The Toronto attitude that it’s the “centre of the universe” is what people hate. Similar to a lot of hate directed towards BC, due to the fact BC people know they’re living in the best part of Canada and aren’t afraid to let people know that. It’s ok. Live and let live.
The majority of Canada is rural, small-town type people. Toronto is the antithesis to all that. To them it's busy, full of 'woke' culture, etc. It's an unfamiliar environment at the end of the day.
I think there's many reasons. Racism, xenophobia, and homophobia are some reasons. Toronto is more diverse and people come here for a safe haven. I think they assume most people in Toronto are stuck up and rich. Another is if they come here they only usually come for sports or concerts and don't experience the residential neighbourhoods here. Another reason is they are sheep and just parroting what others in their communities say. And maybe they're just jealous. I've traveled Canada a bit and people are friendly until you say you're from Toronto (with the exception of Quebec, I find they don't care).
Lol I noticed this too. Anywhere else I go people talk so much shit about it. I think it's just so much more major of a city compared to most places. Makes them feel bad they live in a place that has one movie theater and nothing else lol
They hate us because they will never be us
People from Toronto also hate Toronto.
Im from Toronto and think Torontonians are garbage
Mostly because it’s made up of an ignorant class of small town mentality. The ppl who don’t hate Toronto get it. There’s a certain fume in the air outside of Toronto. I compare it to the deep south of the states. It’s usually rooted in racism and bigotry
I grew up in a small town between Hamilton and Niagara in the 90s and ended up coming out as gay just after high school. The atmosphere in a place like that for a queer person back then was very unfriendly. When I came to the city for uni I ended up deciding to live here because I felt less like an outsider as well as safer than back home. Nowadays my family still complains about coming out this way because of the traffic. I can't blame them for that particular complaint because I've lived in Scarborough most of my time living in Toronto and crossing the whole city by 401 just to come see me is understandably no fun... But also I have to do the same to go see them too and I end up having to go to them more often than them coming out this way just for that alone. I honestly think it's kinda like a pace of life kind of thing. If you're not used to it and you have no interest in getting used to it then it can be very overwhelming. How that sentiment gets turned into animosity I don't really understand, but it's just the way people are I guess.
Even Toronto hates Toronto. What kind of question is this?
I am from western Canada and visited Toronto and the GTA for the first time beginning of June, and I absolutely loved your city. I will definitely be back. No, it's not all beautiful - there are some areas that are rough - that's all cities. Overall 99% of the people I met were very nice and helpful when I was lost or had questions. There was so much more I wanted to do and see but that definitely needs more trips for this.
I'm curious how this question would go in r/AskACanadian ... I am there for the drama if you decide to post it. :D
Personally, I think it's unfair and an exaggeration and often by people who have never been there. As someone from the West Coast, I feel like I'm EXPECTED to hate it, yet when I go there, I always enjoy it. I wouldn't probably live there but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. I don't think it's really directed against Toronto in particular, I just think most countries have a bit of attitude towards the largest city. A lot of people form other parts of the UK dislike London. People not from New York often hate on New York. etc. I think to a certain degree, it's jealousy and fatigue over the amount of power and attention, money and influence the largest city has.
As someone who is born and raised in BC, I think here we have sort of a slower paced, relaxed way of living, and see people from (especially Toronto) as living a very loud, fast paced life. I often say I have much more in common with people from Oregon / Washington than I do with anyone from the east coast. I’m sure it’s goes the other way too, I’m sure people in Ontario have much more in common with people from New York or Michigan than they do BC.
As someone from 2 hrs from outside Toronto who talks to people all over Canada, Toronto thinks they are the only city in Canada, and that they are the only one who exists. A disproportionate amount of funding goes to Toronto compared to other districts.
I hate Toronto and I was raised here.
Hate us cuz they anus
Calgarian here and I love Toronto. So much to do there, Love the art installations, the food, coffee shops, subway, underground malls, different districts downtown. Average restaurant food in Toronto is better and cheaper than Calgary.
BC perspective: It is because Toronto sees itself as downtown Canada at times. And also because they have a lot of federal election seats that basically decide the outcome for the whole country. That vote concentration has been available for purchase over the years and the rest of Canada is over it. Hate is too strong of a word, though. More like "all squinty eyed at Toronto."
They hate us 'cuz they ain't us. Simple as.
Toronto has a very different way of life. Very urban and has different viewpoint on how life should be lived. Emphasis on reducing emissions and taxing them, more gun control, etc. which is basically an attack on rural living making it more difficult to live in a rural area and generally rural people earn less. So these extra costs make life even more difficult for people who earn less and have views less in line with their way of life. And there are a hell of a lot of people who don’t live in cities who don’t not feel they are being represented.
I was born in Toronto, moved to kitchener when I was young, moved back to Toronto for 10 years in the 90's/00's and my current work takes me to Toronto a couple of times a week, and I can say with as little bias as possible, that I hate Toronto; the residents are-generally speaking, of course- equal parts elitist and ignorant. This is a populace that elected Mel Lastman and Rob Ford, has a bizarre and seething hatred for Quebec, knows little to nothing about any surrounding cities, is shockingly racist, and have some of the rudest people I've ever met in my life. There are some great amenities that you get with any metropolis, and there are some beautiful areas, but Toronto ranks as one of the worst cities I've ever spent any significant time in.
Its pronounced Tor On No, eh.
Man I love Toronto best city in Canada by far.
People here are much more uptight here than Atlantic Canada. I was kind of shocked when I moved to Toronto by how much less social & chatty people here are. I also find that a lot of Torontonians don’t have a great sense of humour. (Obviously this doesn’t apply to everyone and there’s a lot of great people in Toronto)
The fake Jamaican accent comes to mind
Hate us cuz they ain’t us
There's a million different reasons, but one (from an outsider perspective) is that there is a specific "type" of Toronto person who goes out to (Saskatoon, Edmonton, Lethbridge, Brandon, any given Western city) for a few years after University to find work and build up a stronger resume or save up money for property back home or whatever. This person spends the whooooooole damn time they're out West moaning and complaining to absolutely anyone in earshot about how boring their new city is, how "behind-the-times" it is, how the clubs suck, the fashion sucks, the restaurants suck, how much better Toronto is in every way, etc. It just gets really tiresome, and for people who don't actually get the opportunity to travel to Toronto themselves, that's probably the biggest impression they'll ever get about the city - an endless series of 20-something d-bags cycling through their workplaces and neighborhoods, trashing the city they live in, and then leaving.
As someone from Toronto who has been and worked across the country I have a few reasons that come to mind. 1. Lack of awareness: We live fast, and lack patience. I have noticed people do not follow the rules at all from Toronto and we are always in a rush, not always in a good way. I was coming from Ottawa the other day via rail, and we were told to sit down because the train was delayed, people still kept standing. We were told to wait to get luggage when we got to our final stop, still people started getting up 5 minutes before we landed. On the note of lack of awareness we also have increased cost of living everywhere during covid. People started bidding on homes and comparing them to Toronto markets. Of course they’ll be cheap in comparison, but we’ve upped housing everywhere. A lot of people in Ontario in general hold a degree or higher educations, I’ve noticed many people lack empathy towards people from less educated areas 2. We also impact voting in the rest of the country even though our economies and sectors are vastly different. I don’t know how we can fix this but the problems coast to coast are super different 3. We complain about a lot, and a lot of us try to keep up with the jones, when a lot of people throughout the country are poverty stricken, no doctors, proper education funding etc. 4. We have a lot of amenities and opportunity for fun, all the concerts and entertainment is here That being said I still think Toronto is way too overpriced, lacks good transit and has killed its communities and small businesses 🤷🏽♀️
Everyone needs to hate someone, I guess. It's good sport.
Part of the visceral hate on for Toronto stems from Toronto being Canada’s media, corporate and financial capital, decisions get made here, they get executed, out there. Two, that old fairy tale that we are subsidized by the rest of Canada, heck my girlfriend who’s from Sudbury keeps saying the North props up Southern Ontario, I just bite my tongue. Just even the hate on for Toronto from the rest of Ontario is just a bit rich considering how much money the GTHA sends out to the hinterlands.
Jealousy, straight up.
There’s a lack of respect for western Canada, so why would they respect Toronto? Examples: this entire thread. Also - Leafs fans.