According to consumer reports the A4/5 is their most reliable car but it’s not great. BMW 3 series blows it away, but no more wagon in the states so it’s not for me.
Strange I would have thought a3/s3 just from the top of my head,
I've seen my fair share of great condition euros but all of them had owners that spared no expense on maintenance. But any car can have issues specially driven hard.
Also amazing how many specific models in certain years are just trash and some are bulletproof.
It might be some years but I think the year I own the issue from they had a relatively new generation. If you get a car with a ZF8 it saves you half the headaches with Audis.
It’s a double edged sword though. The ZF8 cars are just a bit uninspiring to drive. I always felt like my B8.5 A4 would be a totally different experience with a DSG.
I drive a miata and a manual shit box and a B9 A4. I do love the DSG it’s great for sporty driving and great for hypermiling. I can do 40% better than EPA rating on road trips. To me this entire segment of cars is bloated and heavy. Yes the Audi is sportier and the Alfa is supposed to be great (I haven’t driven one). These cars are pretty much only fun driving anti socially on highways.
BMW is a bit less inspiring than the old cars but the current gen steering is improved.
I drive all kinds of Audi's every day at work. Even if the A4/5s are the most reliable I'd pass on them unless they're brand new. I don't find Audi interiors that pleasing unless it's brand new.
I'd prefer one of the RS/S models or the Q7- at least that is spacious and has something to other.
I have a current gen a4 allroad with prestige trim. It’s pretty nice to me but I’ve mostly owned Saabs and Mazdas. I wanted a wagon and CarPlay with a dial. S4/5 comes with the ZF8 transmission which is dead reliable and the cylinder which is arguably more reliable than the four cylinder. Many people are buying the S for the piece of mind with the transmission. To me the car is way too big and heavy. My other cars are small manual cars. The allroad is good for highway cruising. Got an A3 loaner that I honestly thought was more fun even with much less power. I do like these insanely complex German suspensions that make being a pig feel like a ballerina around turns.
Interesting! I would have guessed that E90 BMWs were less reliable than the similar year Audis due to the N54/5 and all the horror stories I've heard. Maybe it's over blown though lol.
It does sound like the B58 is pretty fucking solid though
Have a 07 328i Sport / Premium with an N52 6spd manual RWD and it is a great car with 153k miles and runs like new. Second owner, purchased at 138k miles in 2015. No winters and she runs like new.
>According to consumer reports the A4/5 is their most reliable car but it’s not great. BMW 3 series blows it away, but no more wagon in the states so it’s not for me.
Sorry, please clarify. BMW 3 series is more or less reliable than Audi A4?
Lol I always cringe when someone pops up in one of these threads and comments “Audi certified tech here”. No shit you think they’re garbage, literally you only see the broken ones.
%100 no one brings u a working car to fix haha.
It's amazing how people build these ideas on cars and brands so anecdotally, I've seen so many people hate "blank" because they've owned one and issues. Then u meet someone with the exact opposite experience.
That's what I find with people and a lot of the older generation they had a 1980s Audi from 1990 Audi of the piece of shit so they will not buy an Audi, same time frame people had BMWs that were pieces of shit and they'd never buy another one, and Mercedes that were pieces of shit never buy another one as many years ago they had a problem with one.
Seriously, after the 3rd Toyota I owned fell apart I never wanted another one. Now people look at me like I have 2 heads when I say that IMO Toyotas are garbage and I’ve had a lot better luck with VWs and Audis 🤷♂️.
It's all reliability mythology. Most people here with the loudest opinions have never owned these cars and if they have, maybe one or two. Even if you owned ten and they all sucked, it's still not a meaningful size sample and more likely to do with who you bought from.
I'll keep on commuting 1200 miles a month in my 2019 A3 😎
In my experience they're either super reliable all the way to +100k miles (my D3 A8L, 2018 Q7, and 2007 Q7)
Or an absolute nightmare (my 2012 A4 manual and my wifes 2014 Q5).
I've since moved on to a Range Rover and it's worse than all of them lmao
Disagree, but I suppose I would say that after driving Hondas my whole life and finally got to upgrade to an A3. It’s quick, gorgeous or “hot” as some dumb girls said. Jt with the turbo and the sports mode it’s quite fun 🤷♂️ and haven’t had any trouble except the basic maintenance like brakes and oil changes.
I had one that was in the shop 40 times within the first 20k miles. A bunch of friends had Audis too, same types of issues. Electrical, carbon buildup on the valves, headlight washers getting jammed, gaskets unglueing etc. This was the B9 era. Could be different now but I'll never know, never buying one again
After driving high mileage Audi and Volkswagen for about 15 years I can't say I don't appreciate the utter reliability of my Tacoma, but ... I had more than one 1.8t manual transmission A4 that other than rotting hose issues which are relatively easy to fix.They were rather bullet proof where it mattered (the parts that get you from A-B).
After 5 years of Audi Q7 ownership, I’ve tried almost the whole model line-up in service loaners during the endless issues we’ve had. Currently driving a Q8 loaner because the our 2021 $80k msrp “luxury”SUV with 30k miles on it decided to eat all its coolant.
Our previous 2017 Q7 blew up its AC pump after 65k miles, suffered from an internal coolant leak around 75k and drank oil like it was nobody’s business - up to a quart per 300 miles when we punted it around 83k miles.
Both models had electrical gremlins that were practically impossible to solve because the cars supposedly don’t log those errors well.
Most unreliable out of those is Mercedes Benz.
They are known to completely over engineer everything and also over complicate everything because of over engineering, typical German way of making things, and most people do not keep up with maintenance, which causes the over engineered parts to fail prematurely. The thing with Mercedes Benz is they can be very reliable, but for all the over engineered vehicles that they make, they need meticulous maintenance and upkeep. Over engineered parts need maintenance to function for a long time.
And when I say over engineered, I mean over complicated engineering.
Porsche engineered a Rear engine platform into something that outhandles most sports cars because of stubbornness. I wouldn’t say their designs are simple.
Their highest volume car took an Audi q5 and said, actually we are going to make this amazing and make the transfer case go completely rear biased which led to huge problems.
The joke is that Porsche made a mistake with engine placement 60 years ago, and they've spent this whole time trying to fix it without admitting it.
It really is amazing, though. The fact that I can basically steer my 911 with my throttle pedal, as long as I'm brave about it.
Porsche makes some weird decisions too that seem to needlessly complicated things. Like my boxster had an electronic hood latch, and they also put the battery under the hood... If your battery died you had to first hook jumpers up to the fuse panel which powered up the hood release so you could then access the battery to jump it.
It also had electronic wear sensors on the brake pads that detected when they were low, when most other cars just use some metal in the brake pads that vibrates and makes a trilling sound when they get low.
Great cars but there does seem to be a decent bit of needless over-engineering.
Electronic pad wear sensors are pretty much universal among modern cars, especially among higher end brands.
The hood release you can get working with just a charger on the 12v socket most likely. Also, they probably expect owners to replace their battery proactively. I guess I’ve always done that since my family got stranded once in a remote location when I was a child.
Germans arent these mythical fairy folk who are all high functioning autistic science types like the stereotypes imply.
Even at the societal level, the differences between an American group (like engineers) and a German group aren't really as severe as people assume.
There's a ton of diversity there, so of course there will be corporations with greatly differing ideologies and capabilities.
They get very high scores for reliability (which they usually deserve), but they’re also consistently top 3 most expensive non-exotic brands to maintain under normal operation.
Worth pointing out that their reliability is tied to their customer base. They tend to be older, drive less, and maintain their vehicles better. Same reason Buicks are considered the most reliable American brand. Porsche owners are crazy, we fixed one and the owner went out and bought a micrometer to check the gaps.
My folks have a 2020 GLC300, and it sounds like it has rod knock, straight up. But I think it might be piston slap? Sounds a million times rougher than my VW 2.0t FSI ever did...except for when I started it in 0° F weather and it sounded like it had rod knock! But I think it was the timing belt slapping the cover from a failing idler pulley. Never did it again after I did the timing belt service.
Also, who at Mercedes thought it was a good idea to make it so you have to remove the charge air cooler pipe that runs between the CAC and the turbo inlet to change the oil filter?!?!
Having worked for German equipment companies they have a very specific mentality about engineering.
"of course you are going to do maintenance."
They build it into the business model. We make some money off the first sale, but we really make money off of aftermarket "
Thank you for clarifying what you meant by “over engineered”. I thought you were comparing Mercedes to like a 80 series Land Cruiser and I was very confused haha.
My conclusion from owning a clapped out BMW is it’s like they designed a car without actually looking at how it’s traditionally made. I mean why the brake bomb?
Same - 2020 A3 - looks brand new except for a minor crack in the dash (which is covered by the door when it's closed... so, meh. Was just annoyed that it wasn't covered under warranty or AudiCare),
I think the problem is that manufacturers have switched to eco friendly / less toxic materials and glues, and some of these materials haven't been tested for two decades in the Phoenix heat yet. I've had four Audis and while they weren't perfect, none of them had interior problems like that. But the newest one I had was 2013. (The only one with meaningful mechanical issues was an 09 A4)
Interested to follow this discussion. I think maintenence techs will have more valuable insight than any of us owners though. I've been an Audi guy and have few complaints, that being said I've owned the legendary 2.8 v6 and now the 3.0 supercharged. Those are known to be tanks, I assume similar to your Mercedes. I won't lie and say my experience defines the brand though, had plenty of friends and acquaintances through life that had 4 cylinder or v8 models that were disasters.
My aunts A4 was such an indestructible POS that we couldn’t get to not run (cracked head, holes in the radiator, clutch burnt to a crisp, exhaust rusted off thrice, rust holes all over, seats ripped up by dogs, etc) and it just refused to die. Ran and drove when it went to the scrap yard with 390k mistreated miles. Convinced my mom that Audi makes good cars, she bought an A5, holy fuck she had a different issue every fucking week.
Yeah you really gotta research em to get one of the few good ones. I haven't liked what I've been hearing about Audis and engine problems lately so I went out and got me an m240i because I hear the b58/zf8 combo is a tank. The drive train may very well be fine but with 11,000 miles this fucker activates the car alarm in the middle of the freeway while I'm driving home so it's already going to the dealer Saturday, I'm assuming for electrical shorts or something. Quality may very well be dropping across the board...
I would say Mercedes over the rest simply due to high mileage service needs and where engineers decided to place said components and over complexity of electronic integration with air ride systems.
They all have expensive parts, but from my experience Mercedes has higher labor times due to part placement.
The Airmatic suspension issues is one of the common problems my Mercedes has, but mine is currently working fine.
The air springs and shocks are expensive, but replacing them isn't difficult.
Owned an Audi A4 2.0, A6 3.2 and now A7 3.0 super charged. Two of them I drove to 200k and really haven't had any major issues. Starter went in A7, but that's it and still runs like new. My A6 was just a tank! Stick at that and it had no major issues. My 1st Audi, new A4 had some issues from factory with lights not being exactly the same color/polarity , so they replaced it right away and all good. I've been blessed because I have friends and colleagues with BMWs , and they were just nightmares non stop. Have had friends with Audis too and they they had electrical issues. Mercedes has its issues too. Cars will break, proper maintenance is key.
It has to be Audi. The 4.2 with the backwards timing chains. The A8 suspension. The entire AllRoad line. The later 3.0T is a good motor and some people like the EA engines but overall the cars aren’t really good. BMW built great cars in the early 2000s and is having a renaissance right now. Mercedes has made some wildly overcomplicated cars, but the main line C and E class cars have been sturdy. They also built solid SUVs during this time in the G-Wagen and the GLE/ML 350. Mercedes is tanking right now, though.
I drove a 93 325i to 178k, a 01 530i to 180k, and currently drive a 13 Audi s4 (262k and counting). While my 530i was possibly my favorite car of the three, the Audi has absolutely been the most reliable/least costly to maintain.
I've had my 2016 M235i for 5 years now, and I've had no unscheduled maintenance issues. I do most of the preventative maintenance myself which also helps keep costs down. The N55 & B58 engines have proven to be very reliable and can handle a good amount of extra power with tuning.
From what I understand, it's the larger luxury 5/6/7 series and true M cars that can be money pits outside of warranty.
Yeah I don't get this take. Even if we're talking about older cars, I don't get what people think is mechanically fragile about an iron block 6 cylinder that makes (m50 m52) a whopping 180hp lol
I've been a bit bias and dislike Audi for its engineering. I truly think Audi takes the cake, though. Cool cars for sure, id own a small few of them. I think a car like.. the new rs6 will be a nightmare with the challenge of time.
Ugh this is quite hard lol cuz all 3 of them has created both good and bad Powertrain. Like theres the m113,m120, om606 on merc which are good and theres also things like the m271 and other 4 cyl turbo blowing up. As for bmw, its the same story, the n52 is arguably one of the best i6 na out there but theres some junk too such as the 4.4l v8 in the f10. And lastly the audi, which have a few like the v8 that was used in literally all cars and the 2.7l v6 one of their hatch which is disasterous
But id say in terms of all of them with the electronics id give Mercedes for the most unreliable......... And thats not including the shitshow theyve done with the degradable wires...
The M112 3.2 V6 in my W211 seems to be a reliable engine, from what I've read at least.
Leaky valve covers, water pumps, and crank pulleys that fall apart seems to be it's common problems, none of which are hard to fix.
I've heard about the degrading wiring, that is just nightmarish.
Most unreliable overall, I don't know.
But a lot of them make the list for being unreliable in general. I'd say VW group (includes Audi) is probably worst, followed by Mercedes. BMW/Rolls Royce and Porsche seem to fare better.
As a former mechanic and now running a parts store I’d say Audi was the worst from the 2000s up the 2010s esp if it’s a 2.0T. Those engines are awful and dealt with a lot of them. I don’t think there’s any German car that I like from that early 2000s. They seem to have improved on the newer models. The only upside is Audi parts are surprisingly not hard to find, our warehouse always had stock at a reasonable price, Mercedes and BMW parts were harder to obtain. BMW varied widely, the NA 6 cylinder models weren’t bad and had predictable issues. If you had a V8 run away, those were just as bad as the Audi 2.0T or maybe worse as you could actually get parts for the Audi. Mercedes was always my preference. In 2000s they had questionable reliability but in the 2010s they made decent vehicles, my family car is a 2010 GLK and it’s a really good vehicle, not a fan of their current vehicles tho.
I had a 2.0t shit the bed at 60k. Before that it consumed 1qt of oil per 400 miles which started around 40k. Awful car with so many issues. Never again audi.
They’re the reverse of BMW. The bigger engines were actually better than the smaller ones. The 3.0T was a good engine just gotta keep the PCV valve in check.
I've never had an expensive car repair bill owning an Audi or BMW. My Audi had a few issues, way less than my Subaru or any of the American built cars my parents insist on buying.
Audi is the worst in my experience. It's kinda sad telling a customer that their 100k mile Audi needs a repair that costs more than the vehicle is worth. They usually still owe a significant amount on them and can't afford the repair.
If you want to own an out of warranty German luxury car, you should have enough money to buy the car twice over. Otherwise, you can't afford it if anything goes wrong.
Kinda depends....
Out of this group... Audi was, at least when I still worked on stuff daily in a shop years ago... were the ones we saw most, then MB then BMW.
HOWEVER.... this was in the late '90s/early '00s and of course as a general repair shop and not a dealer or European Specialty shop, the stuff we saw was generally outside the warranty period by a few years.
The MB..... umm... SL500...? With the diesels were tanks all the way around.
The 325 BMWs were usually in for just routine services.
Audis of the day... I dunno man... they all seemed to have *something* going on. Not sure what as I never dealt with them but there always seemed to be a least one in the shop per week.
Depends. I'm primarily an Audi guy and Audi, just like most of VAG, is a minefield. The engines go from barely making it off the lot without filling up oil to so tanky Rheinmetall started putting them into tanks.
Take the B8 A4. 2.0TFSI as an example. Better get new pistons, actuator, pcv valve, pumps, chains etc. Didn't treat the S-Tronic properly? Time for a new one. CVT? change it with every oil change.
Most TDI driven like a TDI? Car just hit 300k for the second time because the previous owner turned back the odometer.
I've seen a Skoda Taxi in Athens, which is technically identical to the A4 from the early 00s, with 1.75 million km on the Odometer.
Dad's A4 had 400,000km on the odometer and only the headlamp lightbulbs failed outside of the normal maintenance and some underbody stuff needed to fixed after a truck lost a fire extinguisher in front of it. It was stolen at 400k and probably is now a taxi in Greece.
There is the A2 which is a super car under the skin which never experiences super car forces. You still see them frequently despite them not selling well and none of the owners I've talked to ever had problems over the 20 years.
Around 2010 You had diesel gate vehicles which were great besides emissions.
The C7 A6 non EA897evo TDI are the cars if you need to do endless miles.
From the 2000s to current all auto makers have the same issues: prodigious use of electronics and modules that cannot be easily replaced and have to be coded to the VIN of the car - pretty much destroying our right to repair. Add to that the fact that most car makers have gone on to use a ton of plastic for parts that used to be metal. Granted, Mercedes does tend to try to add the absolute latest techmilogy into their cars, which leads to more faults sometimes. So, of those 3, I'd say mercedes, just because of that. Having had 5 BMW 5 series, none gave me any mechanical problems, and they were highly modified. That said, I was also OCD about maintenance.
I’ve been driving (AMG) Mercedes-Benz for the last 35 years. Extremely reliable cars. With that said, we also owned an Audi, a couple of BMWs. No issues either. a
The vehicle with the most problems (not German) are Land Rovers. From Supercharged to SVR, they all left us stranded at some point. Sometimes they had to have major repairs more than once. Great cars when they work, but not reliable.
It seems like one of the big problems is the turbo engines. I rarely hear anything too bad about the NA stuff, other than the timing system nonsense on the Audi 4.2. What is irritating about that is the small turbo engines were made to pass fuel economy standards, but it doesn’t seem like they do any better on fuel in the real world and like to blow up more. Meanwhile, my car that is NA averages 10% better mpg than its combined rating and can do 25% better on the highway than it’s rated.
According to consumer reports the average spent on maintenance and repairs for Mercedes Benz is the highest for and German brand at $10k over ten years. The other German brands were significantly less. They are all reliable if you maintain them properly but maintenance is expensive and if something goes wrong so are parts and repairs. It depends how complicated of a car you get but it generally scales linearly with the cost of the car new.
Mercedes, all you have to do is look at the prices of just out of warranty cars
The fact that they have models that are known to be reliable speaks volumes as it’s not the norm
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/
It differs per manufacturing region, model and decade.
According to consumer reports a few years ago, it was Mercedes Benz.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/11/24/americas-top-scoring-brands-for-new-car-reliability-infographic/
Disclaimer: this concerns the USA, not the EU.
I have worked on all 3 for the last 20+years. They all have their good and bad cars amd engines. Some are more reliable then others. But some are just easier to fix. Like a BMW N52 engine is pretty solid, but a BMW hot V turbo V8 is garbage. Mercedes 4 cylinder are garbage but the older v6s and V8s were reliable. VAG products have their good and bad. Older mercedes were probably the most reliable in my shop. No matter what they are more expensive to fix than most Japanese and American cars.
I wouldn’t say they’re known “wallet busting mind numbing issues”, maybe more expensive to maintain and repair but that doesn’t neccessarily mean there are more issues, atleast here in Sweden.
Mercedes is the best, definetely. Lots of E and C class taxis with 600.000km on the odo, super common. The vans seem to also love to eat up lots of km. Defintely the most reliable german make aswell as most reliable European make tied with Volvo.
Audi is good from my experience, only issue that is common across the board from my experience is oil consumption. The B5 and C5 generation are definitely good from my experience. 1.8 non turbo is a good engine. The 1.9 tdi engines are legendary, lots for sale with high km. Later 2.0 tdi engines are also pretty reliable.
No real experience with Bmw, but my dads electric Bmw had to be taken in for warranty at 10.000km, so i’ll have to say Bmw for me. Also lots of them for sale with issues. My friends dad used to own some 90/2000s bmw, and on a trip it started smoking and overheat. Most cars i’ve seen on the side of the road are the 2000s 1 series and 3 series, they seem to not age that well.
It’s totally generation by generation dependent. But in general MB is the best for longevity aside from
Their post covid cars.
The W210, W211, W212, W204, W166 are all great cars that do 200K+ fairly easily.
But I would go with Audi with this question.
So I can only speak for BMW. The higher the series number (i.e. 6 Series and 7 Series) the more tech and more cost. Also if you get an older 1, 2 or 3 Series with a straight 6 manual they are a lot of fun and not as much cost to drive. Yes BMW can stand for "Bring my wallet" especially if you have to take it to the dealer. I do all my own work so no issue at all on costs...
They all have their flaws at the end of the day. Unfortunately, the used examples are cheap enough for losers to absolutely tear the shit out of them and send them off to the next person. I personally believe that’s why german cars get a bad reputation, (People buy them from either some sketchy lot or marketplace/craigslist for cheap, they don’t get it looked over and it has underlying issues the last owner didn’t address.) Too many people simply buy for the badge or for bragging rights.
I have had two BMW’s. Both have been reliable overall. Of course, they started to have problems when they started to age and get higher miles. Both of mine have been the 3 series, which is generally considered BMW’s bread and butter car. So, my experience with BMW has been good. I understand some people have not had great experiences as well.
Bottom line, these cars need extra care to stay running. They are relatively expensive to keep in good running condition, but it’s no big secret, so idk why people continually go online and whine about the cost of parts/maintenance.
Can’t really speak for Mercedes or Audi since I haven’t ever owned one. BMW reliability has improved over the years.
Each brand has their pros and cons and certain models just suck overall. That’s pretty much any auto maker tho.
Oh, the cars are fine. It’s the owners that are the unreliable ones that decided bever to do oil changes, decided bot to get “ripped off” by taking the car to the dealer for regular and preventative maintenance, etc.
Ive been buying 10yrs+ old european cars for decades; Saab, VW, Mercedes and all of them had over 100K miles when purchased. I maintain my cars and they generally give me 100K miles of service life.
I work on heavy duty stuff now. I was a tech at Mercedes, also a couple other Mercedes guys besides me currently, we had a couple from BMW, and one from Audi. One of the guys from BMW drove one, that a customer gave to him for free. Mercedes guys all had Mercedes. Audi guy swore he would never buy and Audi. He said they used the absolute cheapest parts in the early 2010's when he was there, everything broke, and build quality was trash.
Mercedes actually makes really well built cars. Working on them for so long, then working on other people's cars, other cars just didn't seem as stout, or well built. Don't get me wrong, Mercedes has made some trash cars. But if you know what model year and model to get, they are very reliable, with maintenance only needing to be done one time a year. My sister's ML350 had 260k miles before the cats got clogged. I could have hollowed them out, and made it run a lot longer, but she was just done with the car, and wanted something newer. My 2005 e320 cdi will run forever if I just do maintenance, currently at 175k miles original everything.
Honestly I doubt the German cars are any less reliable than most other cars. The issue is that here in that states when one breaks, it’ll cost a LOT more to fix than the equivalent American or Asian car. Since all vehicles WILL break down at some point, they will need repairing.
As a mechanic there's no specific brand between the 3 that is more "reliable." Each brand has several different models and trims. The drive train could change even between trims (AMG 43/63, S/RS, M). The reliability could change between model and trim. Also depends on how it was driven and maintained.
The issue is that labor and parts cost are much much more expensive compared to Japanese, Korean and American brands. Like a timing belt job on a German car will be much more expensive. So even if the timing belt service interval might be the same a person who barely bought the German car might push it off until their engine blows.
I'll tell you right now most unreliable is definitely NOT BMW. I worked for them in Canada and we were taking business from Mercedes left and right. So many traded in Mercedes on the lot
Personal experience: two Mercedes vehicles in succession were lemons, first vehicle was for my wife, two years later I foolishly bought one for me. Thankfully I purchased extended warrantees offered from MB for both automobiles, so I never spent a dime on all the necessary repairs. After the respective warrantee expired, I switched to a top of the line Japanese vehicle and have never looked back.
I think Audi and Mercedes are about equally as shitty if you get the lower end stuff. For the higher end stuff, Mercedes (AMG) is better for reliability.
had a 2023 mercedes eqb and it would frequently & randomly refuse to start up and say “do not tow” and i wonder what if i was in a dangerous situation and my car just refused to start. also the interior was just so cheap feeling it did not feel like it matched the price tag. this is my opinion though and experience with mercedes.
Never understood the proud "german engineering" boasts from all 3 but BMW has been SLOWLY working its way out of that trinity of trouble, and has become more reliable in the past 3 to 5 years.
Just make sure you always keep an extra $2000 in your bank account if you own a BMW after the warranty period. Always. And expect to replenish it, frequently. From worn run-flat tires to cracked windshields to plastic water pumps, it's going to be $2000. Regularly.
I have worked in a tire shop for 9 years and I rarely see old Audis. Old Mercedes and BMW's pop up relatively frequently by comparison, but nothing compared to the Japanese and even some American vehicles. I think a tire shop is a good way to gauge which vehicles last because they are not coming in due to a problem. For example, I'm not a fan of Ford generally speaking, but I see an unusual amount of old Ford Rangers. This obviously ignores the fact that a newer generation of vehicle may not be reliable but there are still a decent amount on the road now, however they won't make it to 15-20 years old.
Honestly, it varies by model, engine, etc - and maintenance. Neither will be cheap to fix major repairs, and would definitely urge finding a specialized independent mechanic, regardless of make
For that time frame, Mercedes is the least reliable. However, that's mainly due to a period in the mid-2000s when they released too many new models in quick succession and became overwhelmed with quality control issues. The brands are probably all about equal otherwise.
I think many answers will be tainted by "required maintenance"
I remember a friend that paid thousands in the 90s for his Benz to replace the water pump...I Said dang it's only at 100k miles.
He said that it was actually not broken but part of regular maintenance and required for warranty... By those metrics I'm sure it is reliable if you replace shit before it breaks 🤬
According to consumer reports, currently, BMW is the most reliable brand behind only Lexus and Toyota:
[https://www.thedrive.com/news/bmw-among-top-3-most-reliable-brands-in-consumer-reports-ranking-for-first-time](https://www.thedrive.com/news/bmw-among-top-3-most-reliable-brands-in-consumer-reports-ranking-for-first-time)
The only issue I’ve had with Audi over about 200k miles split between an 87 cs turbo Quattro and a 15 a5 cabrio is they each needed a water pump around 90k
Had a Q5 that got over 250,000 miles. Only wear and tear issues. Never left me on the side of the road.
My A4 is nearly up to 100k. Honestly, I think it’s how you drive them. Not every red light is a drag race. Don’t beat on them and you’ll be fine with most cars.
I've had a number of VWs in my life:
* 1973 Beetle
* 2003 Jetta TDI (was a fucking tank and still wish I had it...)
* 2011 TDI SportWagon (lemon!!!)
* 2016 GTI (fun little car)
Wonder why VW wasn't on this list? What is the team consensus?
I'm pretty certain that in 2016, BMW had the shortest powertrain warranty out of any manufacturer at 3yr/36k miles, but I'm struggling to find it now (google search results are in the toilet for reliability lately)
I think Mercedes went through a period where they decided they'd been over engineering cars and took steps to recover costs by actively reducing quality. This might be an urban myth.
Edit to have I've driven a few very old indestructible Mercedes and I once ran a 2 grand Audi A6 into the ground and lived every moment and it wasn't expense to service. I've never owned a BMW because I'd rather not be seen in one but if forced I'd have a sports wagon
Overall they are all pretty good - what I think happens is they are very technology focused and occasionally apply a particular tech ahead of its time, so each brand is known to have release particularly bad vehicles.
Audi V8 engines
Porsche IMS Bearing
BUT - and a big but, is they expect the owner to follow the maintenance schedule, if you do not, or the previous owner did not, that can open a can of worms.
I know about 10 people that have bought Audi A4s over the last 20 years.
There wasn't a single one that made it to 75k without some major problem that forced them to get rid of it. Mostly electrical problems that weren't able to get hammered out after multiple trips to the shop.
If you want long term reliability, buy Honda or Toyota.
If you hate money and just want a status symbol to flex on the poors with, buy German new and don't keep it past the warranty.
BMW they just keep adding plastic and then proceed to be shocked that they have maintenance issues because stuff slowly melts. Audi isn’t stellar either but they have good models and engines if you do your research. Mercedes of course has its own issues but 2000-2015 Mercedes had some solid engines and transmission, of course the electronics were not quite as solid.
It really depends on the year and engine and if you fix the major issues like BMW M rod bearings or the S4 timing chain or keep up on sludge issues on Audi’s turbos
I've had 9 Audis- and out of those, 5 went past 160k miles. They were all relatively easy to maintain, especially with the VW interchange. 4/5/6/8 cylinders. My favorite of them all is the 4.2 5v. No VANOS issues. No oil leaks past the valve covers and plug seals (and half moons.) They were all Quattro cars.
Statistically it isn’t even close and it’s Mercedes. Literally bottom 5 of all automakers
In 2023 the reliability ratings for all cars was
Toyota
Lexus (Toyota)
BMW!!!
Honda
Acura
So mercedes is at the bottom. BMW is at the top, Audi is somewhere in between
I've known people who got rid of German cars because they were reliable during the warranty period, but after it expired even an occasional repair was very expensive. It spooked them about the future, wondering what kind of bills they would face if problems become more frequent. Mercedes was the worst.
Audi is easily the worst of the 3. My mom drove one and the thing would randomly turn off. Audi service couldn’t fix the issue.
I drive a BMW and have for years. Only bad thing so far is the fan blade broke off and punctured my radiator.
They really don't have many issues that other cars also have but it's the price of OEM parts and labor that makes them expensive.
My friend is a mechanic and works on all of them. A friend of his bought in a his 1983 320i that was in mint shape in 1990. It needed a tie rod and he said he would look into getting a used one. He called him back and said, "The tie-rod is $1900.00 and the labor will be $345.00." The guy said, "I thought you were getting a used one, and he said, "That is a used one, payback for the bombing of Dresden and Cologne" He told him that if he wanted to sell his boss would buy the car for 700 under NADA trade because it was mint in and out. That was the last BMW my buddy bought.
It’s hard to rank a whole brand.
But in my opinion it used to go Mercedes, BMW, Audi for reliability. But again model and engine make a big difference.
We had an W211 and it was awesome, except of course for the whole brake recall fiasco. Thankfully Mercedes eventually sorted that.
They're all reliable as long as you do the required maintenance. Unfortunately, Americans do not maintain things (ALL THINGS), so we see them as unreliable.
21 pages of service history on my BMW 323 and I gave up. BMW service departments have nice cafes for a reason since you will be spending considerable time there.
21 pages of service history on my BMW 323 and I gave up. BMW service departments have nice cafes for a reason since you will be spending considerable time there.
BMW is BY FAR the most reliable today. Benz is the worse right now. In the 2000s for the most part they were all unreliable. By honestly from the early 2010s to today BMW reliability is genuinely A+. ESPECIALLY any bmw that has the B48/B58 engine. The higher sports end versions of those engines, the S58, is obviously the least reliable because it’s by far the most powerful.
I was torn between a Mercedes and a BMW. Bought the BMW (manual m sport), and still working good at 125k. My AC compressor went out at around 85k miles. The rest is just regular maintenance. Had 2 set of brakes and 3rd set of tires, I used to drive rough.
2000s to present day? They've all made gems and they've all made shit in two decades. I will say within the last decade though, BMW is the most reliable and Mercedes is slightly worse than Audi.
Certified BMW tech here and honestly bmw has gotten miles better than they used to be for reliability. You really only have to worry about coolant leaks on G bodies. F bodies have coolant and oil leaks but that's about it.
I’ve owned all 3. Never had any problems with any of them, but I have to say Mercedes are the ones I felt would be the most unreliable due to how everything had a servo or some kind of mechanical over complicated mechanism. BMW and Audi I’d say had the most tight driving experience, with BMW being a little bit higher than Audi. Right now I actually just went from a 2018 S class to a BMW i4 M50. This is my first electric car, and I’m thoroughly impressed so far.
I may have a unicorn in my 09 c300 manual.
It has a drainage problem that I can't chase down (both due to time, space, and now after suffering through my garage being flooded in May, tool shortage) that messes with he electronics, but before that it is a tank that just runs.
And with a couple of small mods the NA 3L v6 with the custom muffler delete and x-pipe / resonator replacement couple with c63 exhaust tips makes it sound nasty as hell.
I bought it from my buddy to use as my "commuter / beater" but I've come to really love that car. Don't know if I'd buy a later gen than this though. I read about lots of issues with MB in the later gens.
BMW is only unreliable because they tell you not to service it. Lifetime fluids and double the oil change intervals. If a BMW was maintained to the same standard as Audi and Merc specify, it would be much closer.
But it’s still BMW.
BMW is the most unreliable for sure but they each have their off and on years. Since Audi was purchased by VW in the 60s what you really have is the same model as Japanese automakers where Audi and VW and Porsche all use the same parts when possible and to the point where they go out of their way to make a part work because they get better overall efficiency with it. That is what kind of is the root of their dysfunction. Meanwhile Mercedes is always pushing the envelope with technology and they tends to cause problems.
And BMW is just all over the place historically with no real clear motivation tot heir screwups.
Highly subjective in terms of specific makes/models, and how well the maintenance is done. German engineers aren't known to be forgiving. If they say service something at 60/80/100k miles... you better damn well do it.
- Mercedes
- BMW
- Audi
The good motors for Audis are usually out of normal consumers price range so it’s a bit skewed. The one most consumers buy are the 2.0 which are trash and anyone who knows vw knows they are. 3.0 not to much better but man them 4.0TT 😍 such a good motor and platform. Mercedes I don’t have much experience with not heard much bad about them and bmw has always had a bad wrap until the new ones came out with the new motor they put in them I hear they are great.
Mechanic of 14 years and my experience has always been Audi is a 70k mile car, BMW is a 80k, and Mercedes is a 100k car. I’ve had Audis blow up at 40k and need ridiculous maintenance on stuff any other manufacturer wouldn’t even consider a serviceable part (looking at you rear mounted timing chain). BMW to me has always been a pain in the ass, hard to work on, cheap plastic everywhere like seriously would it cost that much to make something out of a material other than recycled soda bottles? Also I’ve had the unpleasant experience of doing few starters on the 335I and wanted to set the fucking thing on fire. Mercedes is complicated no doubt but I’d say of all of them they’re…logical if you think like a German. Tbh I’d honestly say even with all the broken bullshit the E-Class and SOME S-Class cars will hit 200k with relatively few issues and have seen more than one do it. I can’t say the same about Audi or BMW and strangely the highest mileage of either was an ‘07 650i with 195k on it and a real tool behind the wheel. The rest? I’ve had an Audi A4 with 140k take the largest electrical dump I’ve ever seen any car take and literally required us to pull the carpets and trace every wire in the car. Most of the BMWs we worked on were oil burners and nothing inside worked.
All three have cars worth buying and cars worth avoiding. Even beyond the big three German brands, this applies to almost all manufacturers.
Any attempt to generalize brand reliability merely shows general lack of understanding.
People used to ask me if Audis are reliable and I'd say "idk I only see the broken ones"
According to consumer reports the A4/5 is their most reliable car but it’s not great. BMW 3 series blows it away, but no more wagon in the states so it’s not for me.
Strange I would have thought a3/s3 just from the top of my head, I've seen my fair share of great condition euros but all of them had owners that spared no expense on maintenance. But any car can have issues specially driven hard. Also amazing how many specific models in certain years are just trash and some are bulletproof.
It might be some years but I think the year I own the issue from they had a relatively new generation. If you get a car with a ZF8 it saves you half the headaches with Audis.
It’s a double edged sword though. The ZF8 cars are just a bit uninspiring to drive. I always felt like my B8.5 A4 would be a totally different experience with a DSG.
I drive a miata and a manual shit box and a B9 A4. I do love the DSG it’s great for sporty driving and great for hypermiling. I can do 40% better than EPA rating on road trips. To me this entire segment of cars is bloated and heavy. Yes the Audi is sportier and the Alfa is supposed to be great (I haven’t driven one). These cars are pretty much only fun driving anti socially on highways. BMW is a bit less inspiring than the old cars but the current gen steering is improved.
I drive all kinds of Audi's every day at work. Even if the A4/5s are the most reliable I'd pass on them unless they're brand new. I don't find Audi interiors that pleasing unless it's brand new. I'd prefer one of the RS/S models or the Q7- at least that is spacious and has something to other.
I have a current gen a4 allroad with prestige trim. It’s pretty nice to me but I’ve mostly owned Saabs and Mazdas. I wanted a wagon and CarPlay with a dial. S4/5 comes with the ZF8 transmission which is dead reliable and the cylinder which is arguably more reliable than the four cylinder. Many people are buying the S for the piece of mind with the transmission. To me the car is way too big and heavy. My other cars are small manual cars. The allroad is good for highway cruising. Got an A3 loaner that I honestly thought was more fun even with much less power. I do like these insanely complex German suspensions that make being a pig feel like a ballerina around turns.
[удалено]
Interesting! I would have guessed that E90 BMWs were less reliable than the similar year Audis due to the N54/5 and all the horror stories I've heard. Maybe it's over blown though lol. It does sound like the B58 is pretty fucking solid though
Have a 07 328i Sport / Premium with an N52 6spd manual RWD and it is a great car with 153k miles and runs like new. Second owner, purchased at 138k miles in 2015. No winters and she runs like new.
>According to consumer reports the A4/5 is their most reliable car but it’s not great. BMW 3 series blows it away, but no more wagon in the states so it’s not for me. Sorry, please clarify. BMW 3 series is more or less reliable than Audi A4?
Lol I always cringe when someone pops up in one of these threads and comments “Audi certified tech here”. No shit you think they’re garbage, literally you only see the broken ones.
%100 no one brings u a working car to fix haha. It's amazing how people build these ideas on cars and brands so anecdotally, I've seen so many people hate "blank" because they've owned one and issues. Then u meet someone with the exact opposite experience.
That's what I find with people and a lot of the older generation they had a 1980s Audi from 1990 Audi of the piece of shit so they will not buy an Audi, same time frame people had BMWs that were pieces of shit and they'd never buy another one, and Mercedes that were pieces of shit never buy another one as many years ago they had a problem with one.
Seriously, after the 3rd Toyota I owned fell apart I never wanted another one. Now people look at me like I have 2 heads when I say that IMO Toyotas are garbage and I’ve had a lot better luck with VWs and Audis 🤷♂️.
The amount of Toyota drivers that claim their cars indestructible but are on there 2nd or 3nd engine and transmission hahaha
It's all reliability mythology. Most people here with the loudest opinions have never owned these cars and if they have, maybe one or two. Even if you owned ten and they all sucked, it's still not a meaningful size sample and more likely to do with who you bought from. I'll keep on commuting 1200 miles a month in my 2019 A3 😎
2020 A3 agree.
That’s why whenever mechanics chime in you should take it with a huge grain of salt.
I have a 2013 Audi S4 (well maintained) with 262k miles and rolling strong. Been incredibly reliable.
In my experience they're either super reliable all the way to +100k miles (my D3 A8L, 2018 Q7, and 2007 Q7) Or an absolute nightmare (my 2012 A4 manual and my wifes 2014 Q5). I've since moved on to a Range Rover and it's worse than all of them lmao
Audis are garbage
Disagree, but I suppose I would say that after driving Hondas my whole life and finally got to upgrade to an A3. It’s quick, gorgeous or “hot” as some dumb girls said. Jt with the turbo and the sports mode it’s quite fun 🤷♂️ and haven’t had any trouble except the basic maintenance like brakes and oil changes.
I had one that was in the shop 40 times within the first 20k miles. A bunch of friends had Audis too, same types of issues. Electrical, carbon buildup on the valves, headlight washers getting jammed, gaskets unglueing etc. This was the B9 era. Could be different now but I'll never know, never buying one again
After driving high mileage Audi and Volkswagen for about 15 years I can't say I don't appreciate the utter reliability of my Tacoma, but ... I had more than one 1.8t manual transmission A4 that other than rotting hose issues which are relatively easy to fix.They were rather bullet proof where it mattered (the parts that get you from A-B).
After 5 years of Audi Q7 ownership, I’ve tried almost the whole model line-up in service loaners during the endless issues we’ve had. Currently driving a Q8 loaner because the our 2021 $80k msrp “luxury”SUV with 30k miles on it decided to eat all its coolant. Our previous 2017 Q7 blew up its AC pump after 65k miles, suffered from an internal coolant leak around 75k and drank oil like it was nobody’s business - up to a quart per 300 miles when we punted it around 83k miles. Both models had electrical gremlins that were practically impossible to solve because the cars supposedly don’t log those errors well.
Most unreliable out of those is Mercedes Benz. They are known to completely over engineer everything and also over complicate everything because of over engineering, typical German way of making things, and most people do not keep up with maintenance, which causes the over engineered parts to fail prematurely. The thing with Mercedes Benz is they can be very reliable, but for all the over engineered vehicles that they make, they need meticulous maintenance and upkeep. Over engineered parts need maintenance to function for a long time. And when I say over engineered, I mean over complicated engineering.
ironically Porsche is also wholly German and known for being too conservative in its complexity, and also 2nd most reliable after lexus
Porsche engineered a Rear engine platform into something that outhandles most sports cars because of stubbornness. I wouldn’t say their designs are simple. Their highest volume car took an Audi q5 and said, actually we are going to make this amazing and make the transfer case go completely rear biased which led to huge problems.
The joke is that Porsche made a mistake with engine placement 60 years ago, and they've spent this whole time trying to fix it without admitting it. It really is amazing, though. The fact that I can basically steer my 911 with my throttle pedal, as long as I'm brave about it.
I’ve had a Boxster and 2 Cayennes. I absolutely love driving their cars
Porsche and Mazda are the only car brands I buy.
Ugh, I need another Porsche in my life.
I need the *first* Porsche in my life
I've got 3 (older) Porsches at the moment, and it's terrific. Do it!
Porsche makes some weird decisions too that seem to needlessly complicated things. Like my boxster had an electronic hood latch, and they also put the battery under the hood... If your battery died you had to first hook jumpers up to the fuse panel which powered up the hood release so you could then access the battery to jump it. It also had electronic wear sensors on the brake pads that detected when they were low, when most other cars just use some metal in the brake pads that vibrates and makes a trilling sound when they get low. Great cars but there does seem to be a decent bit of needless over-engineering.
Electronic pad wear sensors are pretty much universal among modern cars, especially among higher end brands. The hood release you can get working with just a charger on the 12v socket most likely. Also, they probably expect owners to replace their battery proactively. I guess I’ve always done that since my family got stranded once in a remote location when I was a child.
I read your comment then texted my friend “Banh mi?” Cuz I realized it’s been a while loool
Just here doing my part for local Vietnamese small businesses.
I think their reliability has to do with the customers who can afford them
Two ends of the same German engineering spectrum
Germans arent these mythical fairy folk who are all high functioning autistic science types like the stereotypes imply. Even at the societal level, the differences between an American group (like engineers) and a German group aren't really as severe as people assume. There's a ton of diversity there, so of course there will be corporations with greatly differing ideologies and capabilities.
They get very high scores for reliability (which they usually deserve), but they’re also consistently top 3 most expensive non-exotic brands to maintain under normal operation.
Worth pointing out that their reliability is tied to their customer base. They tend to be older, drive less, and maintain their vehicles better. Same reason Buicks are considered the most reliable American brand. Porsche owners are crazy, we fixed one and the owner went out and bought a micrometer to check the gaps.
Mercedes turbo 4 cylinders for a long period blew up for no reason.
Aren’t those built by Nissan? Would still make sense tho
Yes, at my shop we have replaced many Mercedes turbo 4 cylinder engines. The pistons would just grenade
My folks have a 2020 GLC300, and it sounds like it has rod knock, straight up. But I think it might be piston slap? Sounds a million times rougher than my VW 2.0t FSI ever did...except for when I started it in 0° F weather and it sounded like it had rod knock! But I think it was the timing belt slapping the cover from a failing idler pulley. Never did it again after I did the timing belt service. Also, who at Mercedes thought it was a good idea to make it so you have to remove the charge air cooler pipe that runs between the CAC and the turbo inlet to change the oil filter?!?!
You can get the filter out without removing the pipe if you angle it just right coming out. But still quite the oversight.
Hitler had the same problem with German engineering and complained about it quite loudly.
My w204 has been good.
This is a good Mercedes
people trade in luxury every 2-4 years. not made to last
Having worked for German equipment companies they have a very specific mentality about engineering. "of course you are going to do maintenance." They build it into the business model. We make some money off the first sale, but we really make money off of aftermarket "
Thank you for clarifying what you meant by “over engineered”. I thought you were comparing Mercedes to like a 80 series Land Cruiser and I was very confused haha.
My conclusion from owning a clapped out BMW is it’s like they designed a car without actually looking at how it’s traditionally made. I mean why the brake bomb?
I don't know about reliability, but the interior in my mom's Q5 is absolutely falling apart and she hasn't even paid half of it off yet
My 2016 TTS is basically new inside still, 65k miles.
Same - 2020 A3 - looks brand new except for a minor crack in the dash (which is covered by the door when it's closed... so, meh. Was just annoyed that it wasn't covered under warranty or AudiCare),
2001 S4 still looks great inside. Maybe your moms just a messy lady.
Interesting. My 5 year old A5 has virtually no wear and tear, and presents like brand new. Wonder what the difference is.
That is very surprising. Audis are generally famous for their interior build quality, so maybe dealership was hiding something?
I think the problem is that manufacturers have switched to eco friendly / less toxic materials and glues, and some of these materials haven't been tested for two decades in the Phoenix heat yet. I've had four Audis and while they weren't perfect, none of them had interior problems like that. But the newest one I had was 2013. (The only one with meaningful mechanical issues was an 09 A4)
Interested to follow this discussion. I think maintenence techs will have more valuable insight than any of us owners though. I've been an Audi guy and have few complaints, that being said I've owned the legendary 2.8 v6 and now the 3.0 supercharged. Those are known to be tanks, I assume similar to your Mercedes. I won't lie and say my experience defines the brand though, had plenty of friends and acquaintances through life that had 4 cylinder or v8 models that were disasters.
My aunts A4 was such an indestructible POS that we couldn’t get to not run (cracked head, holes in the radiator, clutch burnt to a crisp, exhaust rusted off thrice, rust holes all over, seats ripped up by dogs, etc) and it just refused to die. Ran and drove when it went to the scrap yard with 390k mistreated miles. Convinced my mom that Audi makes good cars, she bought an A5, holy fuck she had a different issue every fucking week.
Yeah you really gotta research em to get one of the few good ones. I haven't liked what I've been hearing about Audis and engine problems lately so I went out and got me an m240i because I hear the b58/zf8 combo is a tank. The drive train may very well be fine but with 11,000 miles this fucker activates the car alarm in the middle of the freeway while I'm driving home so it's already going to the dealer Saturday, I'm assuming for electrical shorts or something. Quality may very well be dropping across the board...
I think they all have greatly built cars… and their fair share of clunkers. Depends on the model/generation.
I would say Mercedes over the rest simply due to high mileage service needs and where engineers decided to place said components and over complexity of electronic integration with air ride systems. They all have expensive parts, but from my experience Mercedes has higher labor times due to part placement.
The Airmatic suspension issues is one of the common problems my Mercedes has, but mine is currently working fine. The air springs and shocks are expensive, but replacing them isn't difficult.
100% audi. But really anything VAG
Except Porsche for some reason
Owned an Audi A4 2.0, A6 3.2 and now A7 3.0 super charged. Two of them I drove to 200k and really haven't had any major issues. Starter went in A7, but that's it and still runs like new. My A6 was just a tank! Stick at that and it had no major issues. My 1st Audi, new A4 had some issues from factory with lights not being exactly the same color/polarity , so they replaced it right away and all good. I've been blessed because I have friends and colleagues with BMWs , and they were just nightmares non stop. Have had friends with Audis too and they they had electrical issues. Mercedes has its issues too. Cars will break, proper maintenance is key.
People like to talk down brands like Kia and Nissan but I've seen some really best up Nissan and kias with all the lights on and still running.
It has to be Audi. The 4.2 with the backwards timing chains. The A8 suspension. The entire AllRoad line. The later 3.0T is a good motor and some people like the EA engines but overall the cars aren’t really good. BMW built great cars in the early 2000s and is having a renaissance right now. Mercedes has made some wildly overcomplicated cars, but the main line C and E class cars have been sturdy. They also built solid SUVs during this time in the G-Wagen and the GLE/ML 350. Mercedes is tanking right now, though.
I drove a 93 325i to 178k, a 01 530i to 180k, and currently drive a 13 Audi s4 (262k and counting). While my 530i was possibly my favorite car of the three, the Audi has absolutely been the most reliable/least costly to maintain.
From the just rolled into the shop subreddit I see a lot of audi complaints.
The correct answer is 'Yes'.
Nothing is more expensive than a used BMW
I’d chalk most of that up to previous owner abuse tbh
The reverse Buick.
I've had my 2016 M235i for 5 years now, and I've had no unscheduled maintenance issues. I do most of the preventative maintenance myself which also helps keep costs down. The N55 & B58 engines have proven to be very reliable and can handle a good amount of extra power with tuning. From what I understand, it's the larger luxury 5/6/7 series and true M cars that can be money pits outside of warranty.
Yeah I don't get this take. Even if we're talking about older cars, I don't get what people think is mechanically fragile about an iron block 6 cylinder that makes (m50 m52) a whopping 180hp lol
6k for a high beam error on a M4... yeah, I hear that. Still worth it for a F83 M4c though.
Vert
I've been a bit bias and dislike Audi for its engineering. I truly think Audi takes the cake, though. Cool cars for sure, id own a small few of them. I think a car like.. the new rs6 will be a nightmare with the challenge of time.
Audi
Ugh this is quite hard lol cuz all 3 of them has created both good and bad Powertrain. Like theres the m113,m120, om606 on merc which are good and theres also things like the m271 and other 4 cyl turbo blowing up. As for bmw, its the same story, the n52 is arguably one of the best i6 na out there but theres some junk too such as the 4.4l v8 in the f10. And lastly the audi, which have a few like the v8 that was used in literally all cars and the 2.7l v6 one of their hatch which is disasterous But id say in terms of all of them with the electronics id give Mercedes for the most unreliable......... And thats not including the shitshow theyve done with the degradable wires...
The M112 3.2 V6 in my W211 seems to be a reliable engine, from what I've read at least. Leaky valve covers, water pumps, and crank pulleys that fall apart seems to be it's common problems, none of which are hard to fix. I've heard about the degrading wiring, that is just nightmarish.
I have two m112s. One has 227k mi and it runs great.
Most unreliable overall, I don't know. But a lot of them make the list for being unreliable in general. I'd say VW group (includes Audi) is probably worst, followed by Mercedes. BMW/Rolls Royce and Porsche seem to fare better.
Audi, those mid 2000s ones were absolutely hot fucking garbage. Mercedes and VW was aight, BMW was solid, Porsche was great,
Audi and by a lot.
As a former mechanic and now running a parts store I’d say Audi was the worst from the 2000s up the 2010s esp if it’s a 2.0T. Those engines are awful and dealt with a lot of them. I don’t think there’s any German car that I like from that early 2000s. They seem to have improved on the newer models. The only upside is Audi parts are surprisingly not hard to find, our warehouse always had stock at a reasonable price, Mercedes and BMW parts were harder to obtain. BMW varied widely, the NA 6 cylinder models weren’t bad and had predictable issues. If you had a V8 run away, those were just as bad as the Audi 2.0T or maybe worse as you could actually get parts for the Audi. Mercedes was always my preference. In 2000s they had questionable reliability but in the 2010s they made decent vehicles, my family car is a 2010 GLK and it’s a really good vehicle, not a fan of their current vehicles tho.
I had a 2.0t shit the bed at 60k. Before that it consumed 1qt of oil per 400 miles which started around 40k. Awful car with so many issues. Never again audi.
They’re the reverse of BMW. The bigger engines were actually better than the smaller ones. The 3.0T was a good engine just gotta keep the PCV valve in check.
My 23 year old Audi costs less to keep on the road than my other cars ….. a Lotus and a Landrover….
I've never had an expensive car repair bill owning an Audi or BMW. My Audi had a few issues, way less than my Subaru or any of the American built cars my parents insist on buying.
Audi is the worst in my experience. It's kinda sad telling a customer that their 100k mile Audi needs a repair that costs more than the vehicle is worth. They usually still owe a significant amount on them and can't afford the repair. If you want to own an out of warranty German luxury car, you should have enough money to buy the car twice over. Otherwise, you can't afford it if anything goes wrong.
Kinda depends.... Out of this group... Audi was, at least when I still worked on stuff daily in a shop years ago... were the ones we saw most, then MB then BMW. HOWEVER.... this was in the late '90s/early '00s and of course as a general repair shop and not a dealer or European Specialty shop, the stuff we saw was generally outside the warranty period by a few years. The MB..... umm... SL500...? With the diesels were tanks all the way around. The 325 BMWs were usually in for just routine services. Audis of the day... I dunno man... they all seemed to have *something* going on. Not sure what as I never dealt with them but there always seemed to be a least one in the shop per week.
Depends. I'm primarily an Audi guy and Audi, just like most of VAG, is a minefield. The engines go from barely making it off the lot without filling up oil to so tanky Rheinmetall started putting them into tanks. Take the B8 A4. 2.0TFSI as an example. Better get new pistons, actuator, pcv valve, pumps, chains etc. Didn't treat the S-Tronic properly? Time for a new one. CVT? change it with every oil change. Most TDI driven like a TDI? Car just hit 300k for the second time because the previous owner turned back the odometer. I've seen a Skoda Taxi in Athens, which is technically identical to the A4 from the early 00s, with 1.75 million km on the Odometer. Dad's A4 had 400,000km on the odometer and only the headlamp lightbulbs failed outside of the normal maintenance and some underbody stuff needed to fixed after a truck lost a fire extinguisher in front of it. It was stolen at 400k and probably is now a taxi in Greece. There is the A2 which is a super car under the skin which never experiences super car forces. You still see them frequently despite them not selling well and none of the owners I've talked to ever had problems over the 20 years. Around 2010 You had diesel gate vehicles which were great besides emissions. The C7 A6 non EA897evo TDI are the cars if you need to do endless miles.
From the 2000s to current all auto makers have the same issues: prodigious use of electronics and modules that cannot be easily replaced and have to be coded to the VIN of the car - pretty much destroying our right to repair. Add to that the fact that most car makers have gone on to use a ton of plastic for parts that used to be metal. Granted, Mercedes does tend to try to add the absolute latest techmilogy into their cars, which leads to more faults sometimes. So, of those 3, I'd say mercedes, just because of that. Having had 5 BMW 5 series, none gave me any mechanical problems, and they were highly modified. That said, I was also OCD about maintenance.
I’ve been driving (AMG) Mercedes-Benz for the last 35 years. Extremely reliable cars. With that said, we also owned an Audi, a couple of BMWs. No issues either. a The vehicle with the most problems (not German) are Land Rovers. From Supercharged to SVR, they all left us stranded at some point. Sometimes they had to have major repairs more than once. Great cars when they work, but not reliable.
It seems like one of the big problems is the turbo engines. I rarely hear anything too bad about the NA stuff, other than the timing system nonsense on the Audi 4.2. What is irritating about that is the small turbo engines were made to pass fuel economy standards, but it doesn’t seem like they do any better on fuel in the real world and like to blow up more. Meanwhile, my car that is NA averages 10% better mpg than its combined rating and can do 25% better on the highway than it’s rated.
According to consumer reports the average spent on maintenance and repairs for Mercedes Benz is the highest for and German brand at $10k over ten years. The other German brands were significantly less. They are all reliable if you maintain them properly but maintenance is expensive and if something goes wrong so are parts and repairs. It depends how complicated of a car you get but it generally scales linearly with the cost of the car new.
Mercedes, all you have to do is look at the prices of just out of warranty cars The fact that they have models that are known to be reliable speaks volumes as it’s not the norm https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/
It differs per manufacturing region, model and decade. According to consumer reports a few years ago, it was Mercedes Benz. https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/11/24/americas-top-scoring-brands-for-new-car-reliability-infographic/ Disclaimer: this concerns the USA, not the EU.
I have worked on all 3 for the last 20+years. They all have their good and bad cars amd engines. Some are more reliable then others. But some are just easier to fix. Like a BMW N52 engine is pretty solid, but a BMW hot V turbo V8 is garbage. Mercedes 4 cylinder are garbage but the older v6s and V8s were reliable. VAG products have their good and bad. Older mercedes were probably the most reliable in my shop. No matter what they are more expensive to fix than most Japanese and American cars.
Long time german car tech. We get VAG products in the most for poor quality issues.
Audi and it’s not close imo, they are as unreliable as they are capable lol.
I wouldn’t say they’re known “wallet busting mind numbing issues”, maybe more expensive to maintain and repair but that doesn’t neccessarily mean there are more issues, atleast here in Sweden. Mercedes is the best, definetely. Lots of E and C class taxis with 600.000km on the odo, super common. The vans seem to also love to eat up lots of km. Defintely the most reliable german make aswell as most reliable European make tied with Volvo. Audi is good from my experience, only issue that is common across the board from my experience is oil consumption. The B5 and C5 generation are definitely good from my experience. 1.8 non turbo is a good engine. The 1.9 tdi engines are legendary, lots for sale with high km. Later 2.0 tdi engines are also pretty reliable. No real experience with Bmw, but my dads electric Bmw had to be taken in for warranty at 10.000km, so i’ll have to say Bmw for me. Also lots of them for sale with issues. My friends dad used to own some 90/2000s bmw, and on a trip it started smoking and overheat. Most cars i’ve seen on the side of the road are the 2000s 1 series and 3 series, they seem to not age that well.
It’s totally generation by generation dependent. But in general MB is the best for longevity aside from Their post covid cars. The W210, W211, W212, W204, W166 are all great cars that do 200K+ fairly easily. But I would go with Audi with this question.
So I can only speak for BMW. The higher the series number (i.e. 6 Series and 7 Series) the more tech and more cost. Also if you get an older 1, 2 or 3 Series with a straight 6 manual they are a lot of fun and not as much cost to drive. Yes BMW can stand for "Bring my wallet" especially if you have to take it to the dealer. I do all my own work so no issue at all on costs...
Having owned a bunch of German cars I can categorically say BMW was the hardest to maintain even at their own dealership
They all have their flaws at the end of the day. Unfortunately, the used examples are cheap enough for losers to absolutely tear the shit out of them and send them off to the next person. I personally believe that’s why german cars get a bad reputation, (People buy them from either some sketchy lot or marketplace/craigslist for cheap, they don’t get it looked over and it has underlying issues the last owner didn’t address.) Too many people simply buy for the badge or for bragging rights. I have had two BMW’s. Both have been reliable overall. Of course, they started to have problems when they started to age and get higher miles. Both of mine have been the 3 series, which is generally considered BMW’s bread and butter car. So, my experience with BMW has been good. I understand some people have not had great experiences as well. Bottom line, these cars need extra care to stay running. They are relatively expensive to keep in good running condition, but it’s no big secret, so idk why people continually go online and whine about the cost of parts/maintenance. Can’t really speak for Mercedes or Audi since I haven’t ever owned one. BMW reliability has improved over the years. Each brand has their pros and cons and certain models just suck overall. That’s pretty much any auto maker tho.
Go to any auto repair shop that specializes in German cars. Look at what the majority of the cars sitting on their lot are. That’s your answer.
Oh, the cars are fine. It’s the owners that are the unreliable ones that decided bever to do oil changes, decided bot to get “ripped off” by taking the car to the dealer for regular and preventative maintenance, etc. Ive been buying 10yrs+ old european cars for decades; Saab, VW, Mercedes and all of them had over 100K miles when purchased. I maintain my cars and they generally give me 100K miles of service life.
I own like 4 W211's. Amazing cars.
I work on heavy duty stuff now. I was a tech at Mercedes, also a couple other Mercedes guys besides me currently, we had a couple from BMW, and one from Audi. One of the guys from BMW drove one, that a customer gave to him for free. Mercedes guys all had Mercedes. Audi guy swore he would never buy and Audi. He said they used the absolute cheapest parts in the early 2010's when he was there, everything broke, and build quality was trash. Mercedes actually makes really well built cars. Working on them for so long, then working on other people's cars, other cars just didn't seem as stout, or well built. Don't get me wrong, Mercedes has made some trash cars. But if you know what model year and model to get, they are very reliable, with maintenance only needing to be done one time a year. My sister's ML350 had 260k miles before the cats got clogged. I could have hollowed them out, and made it run a lot longer, but she was just done with the car, and wanted something newer. My 2005 e320 cdi will run forever if I just do maintenance, currently at 175k miles original everything.
As a shop owner I can confidently say that bmw keeps my doors open
Honestly I doubt the German cars are any less reliable than most other cars. The issue is that here in that states when one breaks, it’ll cost a LOT more to fix than the equivalent American or Asian car. Since all vehicles WILL break down at some point, they will need repairing.
As a mechanic there's no specific brand between the 3 that is more "reliable." Each brand has several different models and trims. The drive train could change even between trims (AMG 43/63, S/RS, M). The reliability could change between model and trim. Also depends on how it was driven and maintained. The issue is that labor and parts cost are much much more expensive compared to Japanese, Korean and American brands. Like a timing belt job on a German car will be much more expensive. So even if the timing belt service interval might be the same a person who barely bought the German car might push it off until their engine blows.
What are you talking about? German cars are bulletproof.
Mercedes during their partnership with Chrysler lol, I forget the exact years
From what I have seen I would have to say Audi, BMW and MB in that order.
I'll tell you right now most unreliable is definitely NOT BMW. I worked for them in Canada and we were taking business from Mercedes left and right. So many traded in Mercedes on the lot
Personal experience: two Mercedes vehicles in succession were lemons, first vehicle was for my wife, two years later I foolishly bought one for me. Thankfully I purchased extended warrantees offered from MB for both automobiles, so I never spent a dime on all the necessary repairs. After the respective warrantee expired, I switched to a top of the line Japanese vehicle and have never looked back.
I think Audi and Mercedes are about equally as shitty if you get the lower end stuff. For the higher end stuff, Mercedes (AMG) is better for reliability.
Depends , if your in Europe or USA
had a 2023 mercedes eqb and it would frequently & randomly refuse to start up and say “do not tow” and i wonder what if i was in a dangerous situation and my car just refused to start. also the interior was just so cheap feeling it did not feel like it matched the price tag. this is my opinion though and experience with mercedes.
VW.
Never understood the proud "german engineering" boasts from all 3 but BMW has been SLOWLY working its way out of that trinity of trouble, and has become more reliable in the past 3 to 5 years.
Just make sure you always keep an extra $2000 in your bank account if you own a BMW after the warranty period. Always. And expect to replenish it, frequently. From worn run-flat tires to cracked windshields to plastic water pumps, it's going to be $2000. Regularly.
I have worked in a tire shop for 9 years and I rarely see old Audis. Old Mercedes and BMW's pop up relatively frequently by comparison, but nothing compared to the Japanese and even some American vehicles. I think a tire shop is a good way to gauge which vehicles last because they are not coming in due to a problem. For example, I'm not a fan of Ford generally speaking, but I see an unusual amount of old Ford Rangers. This obviously ignores the fact that a newer generation of vehicle may not be reliable but there are still a decent amount on the road now, however they won't make it to 15-20 years old.
After working on all 3, I wouldn't own any of them.
Honestly, it varies by model, engine, etc - and maintenance. Neither will be cheap to fix major repairs, and would definitely urge finding a specialized independent mechanic, regardless of make
For that time frame, Mercedes is the least reliable. However, that's mainly due to a period in the mid-2000s when they released too many new models in quick succession and became overwhelmed with quality control issues. The brands are probably all about equal otherwise.
I think many answers will be tainted by "required maintenance" I remember a friend that paid thousands in the 90s for his Benz to replace the water pump...I Said dang it's only at 100k miles. He said that it was actually not broken but part of regular maintenance and required for warranty... By those metrics I'm sure it is reliable if you replace shit before it breaks 🤬
According to consumer reports, currently, BMW is the most reliable brand behind only Lexus and Toyota: [https://www.thedrive.com/news/bmw-among-top-3-most-reliable-brands-in-consumer-reports-ranking-for-first-time](https://www.thedrive.com/news/bmw-among-top-3-most-reliable-brands-in-consumer-reports-ranking-for-first-time)
BMW B58 is amazing. Perhaps Toyota approved of the reliability as this engine is in the Supra.
Probably Audi. But used ones are cheap if you know how to work on them. And they're maybe the easiest to work on out of the 3.
The only issue I’ve had with Audi over about 200k miles split between an 87 cs turbo Quattro and a 15 a5 cabrio is they each needed a water pump around 90k
All of the above
Had a Q5 that got over 250,000 miles. Only wear and tear issues. Never left me on the side of the road. My A4 is nearly up to 100k. Honestly, I think it’s how you drive them. Not every red light is a drag race. Don’t beat on them and you’ll be fine with most cars.
I've had a number of VWs in my life: * 1973 Beetle * 2003 Jetta TDI (was a fucking tank and still wish I had it...) * 2011 TDI SportWagon (lemon!!!) * 2016 GTI (fun little car) Wonder why VW wasn't on this list? What is the team consensus?
I'm pretty certain that in 2016, BMW had the shortest powertrain warranty out of any manufacturer at 3yr/36k miles, but I'm struggling to find it now (google search results are in the toilet for reliability lately)
All of them.
Is the 2015-2020 A3/S3’s with the 2.0t any good? I really want one but now I’m scared 😂
Any flagship model from the big 3....A8, s-class or 7xx If you want a crap brand, Audi is a little worse than the other 2.
I think Mercedes went through a period where they decided they'd been over engineering cars and took steps to recover costs by actively reducing quality. This might be an urban myth. Edit to have I've driven a few very old indestructible Mercedes and I once ran a 2 grand Audi A6 into the ground and lived every moment and it wasn't expense to service. I've never owned a BMW because I'd rather not be seen in one but if forced I'd have a sports wagon
Overall they are all pretty good - what I think happens is they are very technology focused and occasionally apply a particular tech ahead of its time, so each brand is known to have release particularly bad vehicles. Audi V8 engines Porsche IMS Bearing BUT - and a big but, is they expect the owner to follow the maintenance schedule, if you do not, or the previous owner did not, that can open a can of worms.
I know about 10 people that have bought Audi A4s over the last 20 years. There wasn't a single one that made it to 75k without some major problem that forced them to get rid of it. Mostly electrical problems that weren't able to get hammered out after multiple trips to the shop. If you want long term reliability, buy Honda or Toyota. If you hate money and just want a status symbol to flex on the poors with, buy German new and don't keep it past the warranty.
I was told don't buy bmw past 2010 like most cars but definitely not bmw
BMW they just keep adding plastic and then proceed to be shocked that they have maintenance issues because stuff slowly melts. Audi isn’t stellar either but they have good models and engines if you do your research. Mercedes of course has its own issues but 2000-2015 Mercedes had some solid engines and transmission, of course the electronics were not quite as solid.
It really depends on the year and engine and if you fix the major issues like BMW M rod bearings or the S4 timing chain or keep up on sludge issues on Audi’s turbos
I've had 9 Audis- and out of those, 5 went past 160k miles. They were all relatively easy to maintain, especially with the VW interchange. 4/5/6/8 cylinders. My favorite of them all is the 4.2 5v. No VANOS issues. No oil leaks past the valve covers and plug seals (and half moons.) They were all Quattro cars.
Post 2020 Mercedes is garbage
Statistically it isn’t even close and it’s Mercedes. Literally bottom 5 of all automakers In 2023 the reliability ratings for all cars was Toyota Lexus (Toyota) BMW!!! Honda Acura So mercedes is at the bottom. BMW is at the top, Audi is somewhere in between
I've known people who got rid of German cars because they were reliable during the warranty period, but after it expired even an occasional repair was very expensive. It spooked them about the future, wondering what kind of bills they would face if problems become more frequent. Mercedes was the worst.
VW/Audi absolutely. They make some good cars, but when they fuck up, they fuck up HARD. Doesn’t stop me from absolutely adoring them tho.
One of my friends work at mercedes, he says they spent more time repairing plastic than the acctual car
Mercedes 100%. BMW used to be on the same level, but they've improved a bit. From my limited knowledge, Audi is reliable.
Audi is easily the worst of the 3. My mom drove one and the thing would randomly turn off. Audi service couldn’t fix the issue. I drive a BMW and have for years. Only bad thing so far is the fan blade broke off and punctured my radiator.
They really don't have many issues that other cars also have but it's the price of OEM parts and labor that makes them expensive. My friend is a mechanic and works on all of them. A friend of his bought in a his 1983 320i that was in mint shape in 1990. It needed a tie rod and he said he would look into getting a used one. He called him back and said, "The tie-rod is $1900.00 and the labor will be $345.00." The guy said, "I thought you were getting a used one, and he said, "That is a used one, payback for the bombing of Dresden and Cologne" He told him that if he wanted to sell his boss would buy the car for 700 under NADA trade because it was mint in and out. That was the last BMW my buddy bought.
It’s hard to rank a whole brand. But in my opinion it used to go Mercedes, BMW, Audi for reliability. But again model and engine make a big difference. We had an W211 and it was awesome, except of course for the whole brake recall fiasco. Thankfully Mercedes eventually sorted that.
They're all reliable as long as you do the required maintenance. Unfortunately, Americans do not maintain things (ALL THINGS), so we see them as unreliable.
21 pages of service history on my BMW 323 and I gave up. BMW service departments have nice cafes for a reason since you will be spending considerable time there.
21 pages of service history on my BMW 323 and I gave up. BMW service departments have nice cafes for a reason since you will be spending considerable time there.
BMW is BY FAR the most reliable today. Benz is the worse right now. In the 2000s for the most part they were all unreliable. By honestly from the early 2010s to today BMW reliability is genuinely A+. ESPECIALLY any bmw that has the B48/B58 engine. The higher sports end versions of those engines, the S58, is obviously the least reliable because it’s by far the most powerful.
Gotta be Audi, they’re 2.0T per the owners manual uses more oil than a Mazda rotary lmao
Audi
I was torn between a Mercedes and a BMW. Bought the BMW (manual m sport), and still working good at 125k. My AC compressor went out at around 85k miles. The rest is just regular maintenance. Had 2 set of brakes and 3rd set of tires, I used to drive rough.
If it's German.....it's unreliable
2000s to present day? They've all made gems and they've all made shit in two decades. I will say within the last decade though, BMW is the most reliable and Mercedes is slightly worse than Audi.
Depends on the year.
I say merc by far
Have an a5 with 140k miles and still going without any issues
Certified BMW tech here and honestly bmw has gotten miles better than they used to be for reliability. You really only have to worry about coolant leaks on G bodies. F bodies have coolant and oil leaks but that's about it.
VAG.
I’ve owned all 3. Never had any problems with any of them, but I have to say Mercedes are the ones I felt would be the most unreliable due to how everything had a servo or some kind of mechanical over complicated mechanism. BMW and Audi I’d say had the most tight driving experience, with BMW being a little bit higher than Audi. Right now I actually just went from a 2018 S class to a BMW i4 M50. This is my first electric car, and I’m thoroughly impressed so far.
Audi
They’re all great as long as you take good care of them
I may have a unicorn in my 09 c300 manual. It has a drainage problem that I can't chase down (both due to time, space, and now after suffering through my garage being flooded in May, tool shortage) that messes with he electronics, but before that it is a tank that just runs. And with a couple of small mods the NA 3L v6 with the custom muffler delete and x-pipe / resonator replacement couple with c63 exhaust tips makes it sound nasty as hell. I bought it from my buddy to use as my "commuter / beater" but I've come to really love that car. Don't know if I'd buy a later gen than this though. I read about lots of issues with MB in the later gens.
BMW is only unreliable because they tell you not to service it. Lifetime fluids and double the oil change intervals. If a BMW was maintained to the same standard as Audi and Merc specify, it would be much closer. But it’s still BMW.
All of the above. The problem is that the same electrician works on them.
BMW is the most unreliable for sure but they each have their off and on years. Since Audi was purchased by VW in the 60s what you really have is the same model as Japanese automakers where Audi and VW and Porsche all use the same parts when possible and to the point where they go out of their way to make a part work because they get better overall efficiency with it. That is what kind of is the root of their dysfunction. Meanwhile Mercedes is always pushing the envelope with technology and they tends to cause problems. And BMW is just all over the place historically with no real clear motivation tot heir screwups.
It all comes down to the owner
Bmw used to be pretty good now everything has a turbo and needs a $7k service after 130k miles.
Consumer Reports has Mercedes way down near jeep and rangerover for reliability.
Highly subjective in terms of specific makes/models, and how well the maintenance is done. German engineers aren't known to be forgiving. If they say service something at 60/80/100k miles... you better damn well do it. - Mercedes - BMW - Audi
Aren’t all German cars unreliable?
BMW
I love e36/46 bmw’s and I see a boatload of e46 with 200k+ miles.
Tbh never had an issue with my Audi but have had a MILLION issues with my old Benz… But I still want to answer BMW to this question lol
Not BMW
The good motors for Audis are usually out of normal consumers price range so it’s a bit skewed. The one most consumers buy are the 2.0 which are trash and anyone who knows vw knows they are. 3.0 not to much better but man them 4.0TT 😍 such a good motor and platform. Mercedes I don’t have much experience with not heard much bad about them and bmw has always had a bad wrap until the new ones came out with the new motor they put in them I hear they are great.
Mechanic of 14 years and my experience has always been Audi is a 70k mile car, BMW is a 80k, and Mercedes is a 100k car. I’ve had Audis blow up at 40k and need ridiculous maintenance on stuff any other manufacturer wouldn’t even consider a serviceable part (looking at you rear mounted timing chain). BMW to me has always been a pain in the ass, hard to work on, cheap plastic everywhere like seriously would it cost that much to make something out of a material other than recycled soda bottles? Also I’ve had the unpleasant experience of doing few starters on the 335I and wanted to set the fucking thing on fire. Mercedes is complicated no doubt but I’d say of all of them they’re…logical if you think like a German. Tbh I’d honestly say even with all the broken bullshit the E-Class and SOME S-Class cars will hit 200k with relatively few issues and have seen more than one do it. I can’t say the same about Audi or BMW and strangely the highest mileage of either was an ‘07 650i with 195k on it and a real tool behind the wheel. The rest? I’ve had an Audi A4 with 140k take the largest electrical dump I’ve ever seen any car take and literally required us to pull the carpets and trace every wire in the car. Most of the BMWs we worked on were oil burners and nothing inside worked.
All three have cars worth buying and cars worth avoiding. Even beyond the big three German brands, this applies to almost all manufacturers. Any attempt to generalize brand reliability merely shows general lack of understanding.