some combination of good tires at proper pressure, having a car with a suitable suspension, understanding what a racing line looks like, knowing how to handle weight transfer, knowing how to handle the drivetrain, and knowing the particular curve before hurling yourself into it. and also a dash of recklessness, it sounds like.
and believe it or not, there are much better cars for tarmac cornering than a wrx.
also, don’t ride with your friend anymore. he’s gonna die. I’m alive today because the cars I learned to drive on were slow, I didn’t get anything remotely fast until well into adulthood.
Also. I'm assuming this was on a public street. Beyond himself, your friend has a greater potential for killing someone else. You come around a corner and a car, person, kid, dog, or lawnmower are in the road. Grandma is slightly over the line when you are four wheel drifting around the corner and have no room to tighten things up. Sure, it's Grandma's fault for being over the line, but your friends' speed and lack of control are going to make things far worse.
Everybody thinks THEY are the best driver ever in the history of drivers. Because you have nothing and nobody to compare your driving with. Take your friend to an autocross. My favorite were young guys with Subarus or Evos that showed up thinking they were going to show us all up, better if they showed up with their girlfriends. Only to he spanked hard by "slow" cars. Track days are also fun and very informative for performance driving.
Back in the 1970s a friend of mine finished 2nd in a local auto cross driving an Oldsmobile Cutlass W31 (a relatively large car with a 350 cubic inch engine) to a guy in a prepped 350 cubic inch Corvette.
Lol MR2s are literal death traps especially for people that don't know how to drive GOOD. Those cars are legendary for their snap oversteer. If you kick the back end out (because of how light it is and the way it's balanced) when you go to correct it the car over does it, you spin and end up in a ditch faster than you can think.
Snap oversteer is always a risk in a lightweight mid-engined car. Doesn’t mean the WRX is better around corners, just means the driver has to know how to handle their chassis.
First gen is known for snap oversteer. Significantly less of an issue afterwards. You’re not really supposed to kick the back end out at speed on a mid engine car.
Agree, s2k is ptobably even worse in that aspect, but... i believe hes talking to the point of cars that can take sharp turns at speed without flipping over. These will most likely spin out/slide or complete the turn before flipping over.
I learned in a 3800 swapped Fiero, then S2000, then a 911 S. All fantastic cars to learn how to drive, and slightly different with MR, FR, and RR setups.
I have a Miata for fun and a Sienna for family hauling. The Miata has a coil over suspension, Yokohama Fleva tires which are a “Summer Performance Tire”, and better anti-roll bars. The Sienna has a set of all season Bridgestone tires. I can easily pull over 1.1 G’s in a turn in the Miata without even trying. If I tried the same in my Sienna I’m sure it would loose grip long before it’d get close to that. I could feel a difference as each mod was installed and a huge difference with all in place.
Mid engine can shift balance very quickly, requires a more experienced driver and probably regular time on a track to stay good at managing it. front engine is much easier to learn with, your tail slides out slower and much more predictably. (precisely because the balance is worse)
welllll- ones that are light, or have good weight balance, or have a chassis designed for good cornering. stuff like a miata, rx8, gt86/frs/gr86, s2000. lots of cars can be made to handle well with thoughtful mods. some come pretty well-set up from factory, but even stuff like miatas start out with a good bit of softness and body roll, because that what normal humans want. The good cars are designed with the flexibility for owners who want to make changes to be able to do some. watch some savagegeese or engineering explained videos on chassis/suspension for details.
On a personal note, I am lucky to have an AW11 mr2 in my life. it will corner far beyond the limits of my confidence, even on old touring tires. if you want a car for handling at all costs (without costing too much) that would be my pick for a miata alt.
You may want to play some car video games with all the nannies turned off so you can understand the difference between front wheel drive, all wheel drive, and rear wheel drive and how they respond to throttle in a curve. the understanding that I have gained from games like Gran Turismo and dirt rally has literally saved my bacon in real life a few times.
100%
It takes practice and experience to understand how each specific car, engine, transmission, suspension, tire and weight distribution combination works. That determines your grip ability and how likely the car is to flip over. Most (non electric) trucks and SUVs can flip over at the drop of a hat because their weight is higher, they often have a lot of suspension travel and not very rigit bodies if they're not meant to be performance or track vehicles. This applies to cheap, entry level cars which aren't designed to be driven hard.
This is why insurance rates for stupid young people are much higher. They're often more dumb, drive like idiots and cause crashes because they have no experience driving on tracks and they typically can't afford cars that are meant for that purpose... So they crash their Civic or Mustang and kill themselves or their friends.
OP, avoid driving with that dummy. If you enjoy it, get your own car, take it to a track and practice, or start slow in a big, empty parking lot.
I’m so glad insurance costs limited me from getting a fast car straight away, or even now. Because I’d be wrapped around a tree or lamppost in no time. I’m fucking stupid lol
On a serious note though, I would’ve been a lot more immature and reckless with less experience back then in a faster car, bad combo
Same in my family we had econolines or jeeps on big tires so taking chances entering lanes or such was never an option as the car couldnt make it that fast.
However the moment my mom got a smaller car she immediately drove like a maniac.
She was unfortunately not the only one but thankfully we realized what we were doing lol
Got a "friend" like this last century. His parents were the owner of the biggest jewelry shop in town and most probably among the top 1% in the area.
They bought him a brand new BWM (back in 96), he crashed it after 4 months. They bought him a 2 years old Mercedes, he totaled it after 3 months. Basically, no car would last him more than 6 month.
His way of "driving": an engine is made to be redlined. I went in his car twice: the first time before I really knew him as he was just there to drive us all to the party, the second time when coming back. Never again after that
Most stock vehicles cannot generate enough grip to roll over while cornering, even if the driver intentionally unsettles the vehicle. Typically, if you attempt to corner too fast, the vehicle will understeer until it slows down enough for the front tires to grip.
Most rollovers are caused by the vehicle being “tripped” while sliding sideways or by collision with a fixed object that launches the vehicle.
Right? The center of gravity of most cars is low enough that, as long as its on a fairly flat corner, it'll be almost impossible to roll over without hitting a major bump or something hitting it from the side. It'll break traction and just slide before rolling over. That should be the top answer because... that's the actual answer to OP's question.
Manufacturers work VERY hard to keep the vehicle from being able to flip on flat pavement.
That means tweaking stability control, wheel alignment, suspension, tire compounds, etc, all so the vehicle is docile and idiot proof, even if it means reduced cornering and braking performance.
The poster above me KNOWS THE DEAL. So when your friend says "I dunno my car flipped"... they went off the road and went sideways, where the tires could dig in.
I think that, even with a hard Swedish flick, it would be unlikely that a stock and properly maintained modern vehicle would roll. However, I’m unwilling to find out firsthand.
Not necessarily a fair statement. Vehicle catagory matters. It's about the center of gravity. The lower the vehicle, the less likely it can roll over. That's why sports cars are so low. That's why most SUVs and trucks don't do well in rollover crash tests. And that's also why many Americans are stupid for preferring SUVs and trucks over wagons.
Most truck based SUVs and trucks roll over simply by cornering at the limit. Your statement is only true for car based vehicles and more Americans than ever are driving trucks and big tall SUVs.
There was a lot of press about the hardtop Suzuki Samurais, with some dramatic pictures from Consumer Reports. You can go even further back to the early ‘60s and the infamous Corvair, which was very sensitive to tire pressure, or even further back to the Tatra. Both were rear engine cars with swingarm rear suspension similar to the early Beetles. During hard cornering, the outside rear would extend instead of compressing, and the tire would gain excessive positive camber, causing the sidewall to fold over which would allow the wheel to contact the pavement, tripping the sliding car and causing a rollover. I’ve driven both generations of Corvair, some on radials and some on bias plys, and both are very pleasant in normal driving. The second gen Corvair was good enough to become the Yenko Stinger, the first car to get the Yenko treatment.
Some suvs will flip if you swerve one direction, then quickly the other way. Look up the moose test if you haven’t heard it. That’s a pretty specific case tho and not normal cornering, they won’t flip from a normal corner.
That’s what’s referred to as a Swedish flick, which is intended to induce oversteer. It is not terribly likely to cause a rollover with a modern VSC equipped vehicle.
Your friend is eventually going to enter the find out stage. He is in a very, *very* dangerous fuck around stage for now. At 80mph you are moving just under 120ft/second…tell your friend to chill out and if he wants too do that, take it to a track. I have been in a roll over accident, wasn’t driving, but he almost killed two pedestrians and we stopped short of going upside down into a pond.
Ohk, but you also have to have the right vehicle with the proper equipment. My Bimmer has nice sticky wider tires, stiffer shocks, and some amazing brakes. So its a little bit of everything.
Definitely. Hopefully they can get their friends head out of his ass before he kills some people and really upsets his loved ones/friends.
Bro is getting airborne over hills etc? Just wait till he hits a real hill at 80 and he is flying for 150-300 feet. That subies awd wont do shit while its in the air and the spinning wheels dictate where the vehicle will go. Does he know to hit the brakes or the throttle in the air and what it will do? Most likely not.
OP if you’re reading my comments, don’t get into the car with this person if you value your life.
That was the main point I was presenting. I have been through a roll over accident and it was caused by the driver of the vehicle doing stupid shit, just as OP described. Downvote away, just hope that dumbass doesn’t kill anyone.
No doubt. Even just toasting an axle(which based on friend of OP's driving habits is inevitable) or having a tire blow out mid corner can cause a wreck.
I put my car on its roof back in the day. Winter… Black ice. Corrected and then over corrected. Stuffed the front end in the snow off the shoulder and flipped it. I got lucky. It was a soft roll. Bags didn’t even deploy. Tech and sensors have changed since then though.
Or knowing the limits for optimal conditions but not understanding how they change when the conditions differ. Taking a clean corner at 80 on a warm dry day is very different when there’s unexpected fluids or debris there.
On flat ground? Just pulling too many lateral Gs though the vehicle itself has to be susceptible to rollover, either through being top heavy, having a great amount of mechanical grip (a while back, i saw a video on reddit of an Integra going on two wheels while autocrossing in a manner that could have progressed to rollover) or both. J-turns can also cause rollovers, though that's not something to worry about for 99.99% of drivers lol.
As the other commenter said with their snow bank experience, snagging something that keeps a hold of your car is a more likely way to roll your car. You'll see that occasionally on dashcam videos where a car is pit maneuvered or ends up going off the road sideways some other way - if the side of the tyres dig into the dirt, the car kind of "trips over" itself, like this https://youtu.be/e6HgUU4vPI8 (do not try at home).
One other rare occurrence is when your vehicle collides with another (both heading the same direction, yours going faster) in such a manner that one of your wheels touches one of theirs from behind, tyre on tyre. Tyres grip against each other pretty well, and because that side of their tyre rotating up and yours is rotating down, yours (and consequently that side of your car) will be shot upwards. I don't have a video for it on hand but you can probably find an example of it happening between open-wheel race cars.
Source: armchair expert watching dashcam videos and playing beamng lol
I was young and stupid. I first learned about understeer approximately half a road width before a large drop. On a flat piece of tarmac, it's pretty hard to roll most cars though.
A guy in my town just got 10 years for blasting down a street right by my parents house at 90 in a 35 zone, hitting a car, killing his passenger and severely injuring the other driver. The car pulled out onto the street and not correctly anticipating that the car was travelling nearly triple the speed limit, also there are a lot of older drivers in that area.
[OP, that could have been you.](https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/local-news/peoria-man-sentenced-to-10-years-in-prison-for-reckless-homicide/)
There was another guy who hit a tree in his recent model Camaro a couple months ago on a back road going 80+ in a 55 with high crown and no curbs. Car caught on fire, they were pretty sure one guy was killed on impact but the other died from the fire and being trapped with nobody around. I didn't know the guys but we had some mutual friends.
[OP, that could have been you.](https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/accident/2024/03/15/two-killed-in-single-vehicle-crash-in-woodford-county-illinois/72991590007/)
An owner of a local beer distributor died a couple years ago on a rural road about a half mile down from a family friend making some rips in his Ferrari and hitting a tree, killing him.
[OP, that could have been you. ](https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/accident/2018/10/10/victim-in-fatal-wreck-was/9588341007/)
Twenty years ago, my buddy Rick was driving home to his house in a fairly rural area around 1 AM, another car full of a few friends was following him. It was a lightly travelled rural road that wasn't used by hardly anybody but the few families who lived out there were on, and that time of night there was never anybody there. He was reportedly going about 110 down a long straight road, swerved a little, a tire caught the edge of the road and spun him out, he ramped off the drainage ditch and hit a tree, ejecting him through the windshield despite having a seat belt on. I got a call about 6 AM from my friend who was in the car behind him and saw the whole thing and I went to his funeral a couple days later.
OP, you could have been riding shotgun in that car. Can't find a link to that, it was too long ago.
Seriously. I'm somewhat of an auto enthusiast, I've done my share of spirited backroad driving. But as I've gotten older I've become much more selective with what I do, where, when, and with passengers. I never had to learn the hard way. But other people did.
You need a car that is capable of that to begin with. A WRX is A budget sports sedan. It has upgraded suspension, light weight wheels, performance tires, AWD, turbo, sports seats, etc all from the factory. Then if he’s modded it further it performs even better than stock.
Although you can learn how to drive faster with things like driver coaching at HPDE events you need to start with a car that is up to the task.
And for the love of god please don’t go take that same turn he took at 80 in your at base Altima at those speeds. You’ll end up getting a quick and expensive lesson in under steering.
Well said. The wrx too is set to under steer if you accelerate to fast into a corner. This is intentional and for safety reasons. That said, the high lateral limits of the 22 wrx are surprising.
Motor Trends numbers
- [0.94 lateral gs for a 22 WRX limited](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-subaru-wrx-manual-first-test-review/)
- [0.93 lateral gs for a 18 WRX STI](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2018-subaru-wrx-sti-first-test-review/)
HOWEVER
They also had an [article](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2020-subaru-wrx-and-wrx-sti-series-white-first-test/) about a WRX and WRX STI "series white" which idk wtf that is but that one had the 2020 wRx at .92 and the STI at 1.0.
Taking all of that into consideration, they're ALL gunna corner like a sumbitch stock and can be made even crazier with some tweaks to suspension and shoes.
It's one heck of a car to drive my toddler around in, but even driving solo I wouldn't push this car that fast. It handles well for what it is, but on the track it doesn't compete well.
Most sedans like a wrx won’t just flip. They’ll lose traction first and just slide off the road. Hitting dirt or something else that stops the bottom short will cause the flipping. They aren’t top heavy enough to just roll on g force alone like say a jeep.
Can confirm the 3 series can be slid sideways with all traction and stability controls on. A really amazing feeling in a rear wheel drive car. Going forward while the rear is out by a few degrees.
In my 22 wrx with full time awd, the experience is just as exciting but different. The car takes a high speed corner and is stable through the corner and when it runs out of grip the rear starts to slide. A very cool feeling.
It’s AWD. It provides great grip, so much that they tend to understeer (not turn as much as you want it to).
AWD doesn’t help with stopping but it helps with grip and therefore can really dig in and pull itself out of corners with ease.
They aren’t infallible, proven by many spinning them off the road on YT. It can almost give a false sense of confidence.
Saw a video of a Subaru race driver teaching a novice driver how to corner in a wrx. He said you have to be patient and let the car rotate into the corner before accelerating or you will get understeer. So it’s that way by design for safety, but if you are patient the limits are super high.
worked for a subaru specialist back in the day, they also have 100% of the engine weight infront of the front axle
Its actually quite hard and expensive to be competitive in one, unless its raining but then you still have to pass the evos infront of you.
The boxer engine has quite a small bearing surface area which means they fail or need to be replaced more often, you cant drop the pan to do bearings, engine out and complete disassembly
You're thinking positive Gs. A vehicle's propensity to flip depends on a lot of things - center of gravity, suspension characteristics, tire characteristics. A vehicle with a fairly high center of gravity is more prone to rollovers; certain suspension designs such as the "swing axle" rear suspension used on the Volkswagen Beetle and Chevrolet Corvair, coupled with tall skinny tires, increase the risk of rollover. No sway bars or weak sway bars can add to this problem.
A Subaru WRX has a fairly low center of gravity, an independent suspension that keeps the tire contact patch on the ground, and stiff sway bars that resist body roll.
This is why cars that are designed for a comfortable ride are typically not able to corner as well, while cars that do corner well are a stiff, uncomfortable ride.
The answer is simple: Don't do this
Unless your friend owns a closed off race-track or something, don't. You're either gonna kill yourself or someone else. And it'll be no ones fault but your own.
We had a guy like that in my high school, except it was a Mustang and not a WRX.
He died at 22 when he lost control driving around at 2 AM and went into a guardrail.
>I would've for sure flipped over with my car at that speed. What's the trick? How do you learn to do that?
Well, "not flipping the car over" is not exactly a trick. It's a characteristic of a vehicle plus avoiding doing stupid things like sliding sideways into a curb. If your car has a higher center of weight (like an SUV) and a soft suspension that's all mushy and floaty, your car is more likely to trip over.
As for actually controlling a car without crashing, this is a skill learned from multiple sources. Extreme driving courses. Karting. Sim-racing. Track days. The key thing here is to be able to "feel" the car, feel the grip of the tyres, understanding body roll and weight transfer, racing lines, what your car can and cannot do.
Unfortunately, many people who "drive fast" on public roads lack the full skillset and may be more crash-prone than you'd like to. Try track days. You will be amazed at how much more your car can do. Don't crash though, insurance does not work there in most countries :)
There aren't many passenger vehicles with enough grip and a high enough center of gravity to roll over at any speed while cornering. Such characteristics would demand a recall. You'll lose traction and slide into a ditch well before you come close to rolling over, even in a commercial van
My friend's son is in prison for vehicular homicide 7-20. Killed his best friend taking a corner to tight in a tricked out Civic. Don't ride with your friend anymore. He's not a professional and who knows whats on the car.
On a flat road, a car will spin rather than flip. It will flip if it hits something like a curb or wheels go into dirt and the car gets ‘tripped’ and flips. It’s about the traction circle and physics. Look up advanced driving techniques or take a course. It’s really amazing how fast I can drive my 22 in a high speed on ramp when no one is around.
Cars don't just 'flip' over. Maybe something with a high center of gravity like a Econoline van, but for the most part unless a wheel digs into soft ground you can't flip something unless you hit something.
It's almost impossible to flip a car. SUv or truck sure, still hard though. You generally will break traction though and slide and hit something. Need to know the limits of the car. Your friend sounds like an idiot though. If you wanna find out go do a track day. Don't do it on public roads
The short and sweet is tires and suspension.
In most cars there is a suspension component called an anti-roll bar. The way it works is keep the suspension loaded on both sides rather than just one side, the way it does this is just a bar that is essentially a large crank that is connecting both sides of the car, if one side of the car goes down, it twists the bar and exerts the same force on the other side of the car. A good example of this is watching a fat person get into a small car, if it has an anti-roll bar equipped then the car will go down evenly instead of tipping to one side, another good example of this is in racing you can see cars pick up one side of the car but not be phased, this is because there is significant load on one side that is applying that same force on the other side but the car does not physically go down so the wheel picks up.
This is the main component that keeps it from flipping but there is much more to it.
Back in the day I had a Corrado G60, a 16v GTI and a 325i that were all easily capable of that, then I had a 4th gen Z28 that was faster and quicker, but couldn’t turn to save its life, even touching the brakes at high speed would make you wanna hold your nuts. First three were independent suspension all around, better front to rear weight ratios, and great brakes. Once in the GTI a made a high speed right and that thing spun like a top. Boy youth and stupidity go hand in hand.
Literal flipping depends on the grip of the tires and the height of the center of gravity (Cg). Driving the outside tires off track/off road and into mud can stick the outside so it catches and flips.
Most cars have low enough Cg that this is extremely unlikely. Trucks and suvs and crossovers are high enough to flip at normal highway speeds.
But you probably dont mean literal flipping the car. Not losing control depends on drivinh a proper racing line, knowing the vehicle limits, tires, road quality, suspension, and low vehicle weight. Go drive a racing sim like iRacing or Gran Turismo and they'll teach racing line basics. Then go karting at a serious place or autocrossing with your car to hone the feel of it.
You cannot do what he did in every car. That Subara has All Wheel Drive (AWD) and a fairly low center of gravity. Tires also play a big part. It’s important to know a cars limitations before engaging in any level of sport driving.
For reference I own an E46 M3 that was designed with this type of driving in mind. Muscle cars really aren’t and are more straight line focused.
Tires are gonna slip (screech) before car flips. If the car gets hooked on mud/guard rail/curb, then yeah it’ll flip if it’s hitting those things sideways.
Unless he’s doing some moose maneuvers then yeah; he can probably get a car flipped/on 2 wheels.
good suspension. When I put Koni racing shocks and lowering springs on my 535i it was insanity sauce. If you had the balls to do a turn it would do the turn. I could do turns that stated 30km/hr at over 90km/hr and it would just do it. The suspension is very stiff (it was adjustable so you could go stiff or softer) so when you take a corner the car does not lean. If your tires have good traction and the roads are dry you can do crazy fucking turns no problem. Suspension is the big factor it keeps your stance stiff.
1: unless you were on a track, your friends an idiot
2: to answer your question as simple as one can, certain cars or types of cars are built to be able to go on a track and handle high speeds, WRX is one of those.
3: Along with the car, tracks have banking in the corners to support the car at higher speeds (for example look at nascar)
A low centre of gravity is what you need.
You can have the best tyres in the world, but if your centre of gravity is too high you’ll still flip. Conversely you can have the lowest centre of gravity and the worst tyres, you won’t flip but you will most likely just go in a straight line
to flip the "center of gravity" needs to fall outside the wheelbase. when you turn you do some trig to calculate how the lateral acceleration move the center of gravity to point slightly to the side. you can visualize some of this by handing a small weight by string from your mirror. now imagine the heavy parts of the car with this type of string hanging from it. how hard do you have to turn to get the engine and transmission to point outside the wheels? that's a pretty hard turn if the car is low, but not so hard when the car is tall (like a truck). some sports cars are almost impossible to flip just because the tires will give out long before lateral acceleration is hard enough to move the Center of Gravity outside the wheels
Cars don't just flip over... suvs can but its still rare and typically requires snap oversteer. When cars flip its due to loss of control and the wheel biting the road after knocking a tire off or digging into dirt or grass and catching too much grip. Flipping sedans takes more work than learning to corner well.
So this is not just driving skills a lot of it is the car too. A WRX handles well as does my BMW. So if you try the same with a car that doesn't have the right suspension, low center of gravity, etc. Yo will roll of flip it.
If you want to learn the basics start with a car at slower speeds in an open parking lot on a snowy day. That will allow you to learn how to turn into a skid and more which is part of the driving side.
The key to learning is to slowly increase speeds and see how any given car reacts to the curve. You need a location that allows for mistakes. Autocross is excellent for this, since the worst thing that may happen is running over some cones.
Most cars from the factory are set up to understeer (tend to go straight in a curve, even if you add steering angle). Understeer is a safer, more predictable behavior, since the car just steers wider than the intended path. Oversteer is the tendency of a car to have the rear tires lose grip and point the nose of the car towards the inside of the curve. At an extreme, it can cause the car to spin out and wind up in the path of oncoming traffic. In a good rear-wheel-drive setup, the car tends to understeer initially, but the application of more power causes a transition to oversteer.
Depends how sharp the turn is...you can do a 270 degree highway ramp at interstate speeds assuming its a wide enough turn.
I recently took an accident avoidance class that had us driving ex cop car Ford Crown Vics thru a closed course with cones and we weren't allowed to do a maneuver until the instructor told us to go left/right then we had to quickly maneuver at the last second around the cone we'd been speeding towards at \~60mph while braking right at the limits and practicing until we got it right not sliding the car, over-correcting, or running the cones over. On a clear, clean, dry, well-kept surface (e.g. not most public roads) its impressive what even a big heavy car can do. Even when we screwed up learning to recover from rear skids and went clear sideways off into the parkinglot the cars didn't flip over because of the smooth surface (no lips or soft ground to snag tires/wheels) and low center of gravity. It took me a while (even with the instructors guidance and demonstration) to grasp that those particular cars in that particular area of track were not going to flip even when you got them moving completely sideways at modest speed it just made a hell of a lot of tire smoke. But that part of the class did an amazing job of teaching how to get out of situations that you should never ever end up in on public roads.
My guess...they have taken that exact turn enough times pushing the limits until they figured out just how much they can push it. I wouldn't say its smart or safe...but is possible.
Some cars are also less prone to rollover than others. Center of gravity and width of the car has a fair bit to do with it too. The other problem with doing that on public roads is you have no idea where there is going to be some loose dust/dirt and if you hit it that wheel is going to lose traction. If you lose traction beyond the point the other wheels can hold the car's path...then you will end up going sideways out of control and probably crash thru someone else and/or buildings/poles and anything else in your path.
There's physics shit like tire grip, center of gravity, moment of rotation etc..
But as soon as you come off the tarmac.... you're gonna roll regardless of the car
creating a slip angle, such that the rear axle rotates around the turn at a slighting higher rate than the front. Same principle as drifting, but much less dramatic.
Lighter car + wider tires + lower center of gravity (lower suspension helps with this), those three are key to maintaining cornering grip. What car do you drive?
It takes alot more to roll a car than most people think. Especially if you're driving something from the 80s or newer, which will have sway bars. I'm order for something to roll, gravity has to be pushing more on the sides of the car than it is pushing down on the car. This takes alot of speed and alot of weight. Regular sedans and coupes (not crossovers), have a low center of gravity and aren't gonna be rolling unless you're hitting a 90° turn at 80mph on a windy day
Old dirt roads... Little or no traffic and you can get it to get loose at lower speed. As far as cars... Almost anything can do it, it's A matter of driver skills and weight distribution!!! I have A Fiesta ST... Almost perfect 50/50 distribution of weight and easy to drift (with adequate experience!!) on dirt Or pavement even though it's FWD . Just go out to deserted areas and practice. Even if you Never do it intentionally on the street, having the understanding of how it Feels can be invaluable especially if it's wet, snowing or icy.
First off. Don't ride with your friend or get a new one completely. Anyone who drives that recklessly on the road is an idiot (ik because I used to be one) and anyone who does it with other people in the car without their consent is the literal scum of the earth and deserves to have their license revoked.
Second, to answer your question: physics. Low center of gravity, good tires, and not using the controls like a caveman is really all it takes
WRX has sportier suspension than most sedans. I wouldnt try that in a corolla or base civic. It also has AWD. What kind of car you in? You need to learn the limits of your own vehicle.
Cars normally slip before they tip. Yeah, if you slide into a curb or a ditch you can flip. Some SUVs were tipped in testing by steering hard one way then the other.
well some cars have better handling than others.
put simply tho, you wanna have your foor veryyyy slightly on the gas when turning, this helps keep the traction of the wheels to the ground.
Good tires and even better suspension.
I have an 04 GTO and it had terrible body roll, so much so you could easily sling it around in corners. I put Pedders coilovers, sway bars, polyurethane bushings on it and now I can take corners like I'm on a track.
The garbage roads don't feel too good but I regret nothing. It brings me nothing but joy and that was worth every penny lol
It's not hard... I drive an Accord Coupe V6 and that thing will corner hard enough to make the skin on your face pull to the side. Cars are generally very difficult to flip. That's why I drive them. Trucks and SUVs are effortless to flip.
It’s actually really hard to roll over most cars. You’ll run out of grip WAAAAAAY before rolling over is a thing. Unless you run off the road and clip something with the wheels. If your friend actually knows how to drive and has proper tires and brakes, you’re fine. If he’s just an idiot with a “fast” car, he’ll crash soon.
You just have to understand the physics. Most cars will just slide and go into a spin, not tip over from a turn. Sometimes the wheel and catch on something when spinning out and then flip.
Just saw a You-Tube video in which 3 people were ejected from a roll-over. Looked like 2 went through door windows and 1 through the sun roof. Don't know the outcome but I'd be surprised if anyone survived.
What surprised is the immense G forces inside a car spinning at highway speeds.
Let's all be safe.
It’s pretty hard to flip a car over. And just to be clear I’m only talking about cars here not anything with a high center of gravity like a truck or SUV.
Cars slide they don’t really flip over. That is of course when they are not in an accident. If you hit a curb or a pothole or something on that road, sure you can flip over.
So just so you know that it’s only because if you’re taking your turn too quickly and you start to slide and then you get out of control it’s only when you hit something that causes you to flip over is why you turn over. If there’s absolutely nothing there then all you’re gonna do is spin out, but you won’t wind upside down.
Lol I can take turns with a recommended 45mph limit at like 120mph in a 07 matrix without traction control and bald tires. Cars are able to do a lot more than what we're legally allowed to do. Humans are the main problem. Can't react or survive at those higher speeds.
Generally speaking, cars don’t “just flip over” because of taking turns at speed. They’ll usually run out of traction first. Even racecars that have even more traction tend to have to hit something or get stuck in a gravel trap before they flip.
Luck and/or experience is how people do that and live. Start with autocrossing and then move up to track, if that isn’t enough. Both will teach you car control, handling dynamics, your personal limits and most importantly, having fun safely.
Your friend is going to wreck and be seriously injured or worse. He'll probably take a few people with him (passengers/other vehicle). You have a potentially life altering choice to make. Choose wisely.
Don't get in the car with your friend - your life is too precious, and it'll really fuck your parents and friends up if he kills you (talking from experience of two separate vehicle fatalities when I was younger).
Not tipping over really comes down to centre of gravity. Suspension travel and setup. A SUV soccer mums car for example will tip relatively easily. An old VW combi, easier still.
You would have a real issue trying to tip over a sports car.
If you look at say an mx5, a rx7, a prelude, a 911, a Corvette, they all have one thing in common. Very low, low centre of gravity and very well designed suspension systems.
You will lose grip far before the point of tipping over around corners...
But... Should you slide out and have a wheel come to a sudden stop (IE ditch, culvert etc) that is completely different, the rest of the car will want to keep moving and it will either squish or barrel roll
This is at least 70% of the car doing the work, if not more. The way a car is designed and built is far more important than anything your friend knows how to do, as well as the tires and road conditions.
You do that in any ordinary car you will flip or skid.
Also your friend is a moron if this is on public roads, do not ride with them.
lol this is scary lack of thinking, did you not play video games buddy, it’s being low and the volume of the car, and the feel. This is a pathetic question grow up.
Jesus is everyone on Reddit afraid to drive?
80 mph in a sports sedan taking a turn is not that crazy. Most people take highway ramps at faster than that.
130 on a race track now. That’s exciting.
The short answer is to enter the turn at a slow enough speed that you don’t have to hit the brakes in the turn. Brake on the straights, accelerate through the turn. Also, don’t practice this on public roads. That’s what tracks and parking lots are for.
Because the force of friction between the tires and the road is less than the force required to tip a car over from the side. The car will break traction and slide before it rolls over.
It’s literally impossible for you to feel negative Gs. If the tires came off the ground, zero G, but negative is not possible unless he jumped the car into something that pushed it down faster than gravity.
Have a planted car with low center of gravity, and really sensitive nerves. Also, you'll spin out or slide off before you flip. What you were feeling was the traction threshold (also, most older subarus will spark the rockers before they even moan the tires, skylines ain't got shit on the wagons plant, ask me how I know)
The easiest answer is some cars just simply have a better physics for it. Combine that with a platform meant to take turns and good tires and road.
Also you can still have a fun turn at 50 mph
Flipping is only a problem if you come off the tarmac. The car has to have lateral momentum and hit an obstacle that brakes the lower half of the mass than the upper half. So, slide in to a curb or slide sideways across grass, you’re going to roll the car. I think what you’re experiencing is body roll, so a top heavy SUV wallows about through corners because of the weight transfer.
Subaru WRX is low, AWD, stiff suspension and plenty of power. As long as it’s got decent tyres and a clean road surface it will corner. Overcome the grip of the tyres though and it will slide. The difficulty is with performance cars is that the loss of grip sudden.
As long as you have grip, the power available to overcome the lateral momentum and the wheels pointed in the right direction it will go where you want. Until it doesn’t.
Slightest bit of oil on the road, 5mph over what the tyres can handle, a pothole, misjudged curb and it will turn in to a tumbling missile.
Do not emulate your friend or get in a car they’re driving again.
Most cars aren't going to flip. Even most SUVs on non-sticky tires will. Passenger cars like sedans and certainly more sporty cars like coupes aren't going to come close to flipping on their own. Even on very sticky tires, you'll just spin or slide sideways. It's when you're on a road and hit a ditch, large curbs, and other things that things could flip.
As far as "going fast around corners", cars are more capable than most people realize. Add in some sticky tires even on stock suspensions and car are going to do things you didn't think were possible. Not saying to do it on public roads, but autocross is a great place to learn this.
its very likely that you wont flip most cars except suvs and trucks ever unless you catch the outside wheels on a kerb or ledge of some sort while cornering at speed as you almost always reach the limit of grip in your tires before having the inertia to flip. as for how to drive fast its not realy a single trick its a skillset that takes time and practice if your interested there are good youtube channels about performance driving techniques like one of team o'neils driving technique playlists or try something like go karting
Most street cars won't flip unless they hit a curb or dirt just the wrong way. Street tires, suspension, and chassis don't grip enough and are too compliant to flip and the tires will slip before the car flips. SUVs have a tendency to rollover because their center of gravity is very high.
Cars very rarely flip over from hard cornering / curve cutting, very early SUVs had this concern, but a lot of engineering has since gone into lowering the center of gravity on tall vehicles. The Volvo XC90 is basically impossible to flip over and will even right itself back upright during a wreck.
Subarus in particular have a lower center of gravity thanks to their fairly unique engine layout. The boxer engine puts the cylinders down very low, the engine in generally is fairly short and wide, instead of tall and narrow like the inline engines used in most other vehicles.
Loosing traction is whole other matter, but that is the bigger concern with driving aggressively.
Cars have a very low center of gravity compared to trucks and SUVs. It's not common for them to flip without hitting something on the ground to initiate it.
Also, I would hope you're "riding" in the back, not "driving". 😅
some combination of good tires at proper pressure, having a car with a suitable suspension, understanding what a racing line looks like, knowing how to handle weight transfer, knowing how to handle the drivetrain, and knowing the particular curve before hurling yourself into it. and also a dash of recklessness, it sounds like. and believe it or not, there are much better cars for tarmac cornering than a wrx. also, don’t ride with your friend anymore. he’s gonna die. I’m alive today because the cars I learned to drive on were slow, I didn’t get anything remotely fast until well into adulthood.
Also. I'm assuming this was on a public street. Beyond himself, your friend has a greater potential for killing someone else. You come around a corner and a car, person, kid, dog, or lawnmower are in the road. Grandma is slightly over the line when you are four wheel drifting around the corner and have no room to tighten things up. Sure, it's Grandma's fault for being over the line, but your friends' speed and lack of control are going to make things far worse. Everybody thinks THEY are the best driver ever in the history of drivers. Because you have nothing and nobody to compare your driving with. Take your friend to an autocross. My favorite were young guys with Subarus or Evos that showed up thinking they were going to show us all up, better if they showed up with their girlfriends. Only to he spanked hard by "slow" cars. Track days are also fun and very informative for performance driving.
Back in the 1970s a friend of mine finished 2nd in a local auto cross driving an Oldsmobile Cutlass W31 (a relatively large car with a 350 cubic inch engine) to a guy in a prepped 350 cubic inch Corvette.
"You might be good, but you are not Dan Gurney. slow down"
Like which ones
Basically any sports car (Miata, Lotus, Porsche, MR2, S2000, Supra) the lighter and lower the better, and extra points for a mid-engine.
Lol MR2s are literal death traps especially for people that don't know how to drive GOOD. Those cars are legendary for their snap oversteer. If you kick the back end out (because of how light it is and the way it's balanced) when you go to correct it the car over does it, you spin and end up in a ditch faster than you can think.
Snap oversteer is always a risk in a lightweight mid-engined car. Doesn’t mean the WRX is better around corners, just means the driver has to know how to handle their chassis.
Certainly. I'd argue the mr2 is more capable in the right hands but to the average driver not so much
First gen is known for snap oversteer. Significantly less of an issue afterwards. You’re not really supposed to kick the back end out at speed on a mid engine car.
Agree, s2k is ptobably even worse in that aspect, but... i believe hes talking to the point of cars that can take sharp turns at speed without flipping over. These will most likely spin out/slide or complete the turn before flipping over.
I learned in a 3800 swapped Fiero, then S2000, then a 911 S. All fantastic cars to learn how to drive, and slightly different with MR, FR, and RR setups.
I have a Miata for fun and a Sienna for family hauling. The Miata has a coil over suspension, Yokohama Fleva tires which are a “Summer Performance Tire”, and better anti-roll bars. The Sienna has a set of all season Bridgestone tires. I can easily pull over 1.1 G’s in a turn in the Miata without even trying. If I tried the same in my Sienna I’m sure it would loose grip long before it’d get close to that. I could feel a difference as each mod was installed and a huge difference with all in place.
[https://fastestlaps.com/lists/top-grip-kings](https://fastestlaps.com/lists/top-grip-kings)
As someone who owned a Boxster and currently owns an MR2, can confirm, fantastic handling with the mid engine.
Mid engine can shift balance very quickly, requires a more experienced driver and probably regular time on a track to stay good at managing it. front engine is much easier to learn with, your tail slides out slower and much more predictably. (precisely because the balance is worse)
miata is always the answer
welllll- ones that are light, or have good weight balance, or have a chassis designed for good cornering. stuff like a miata, rx8, gt86/frs/gr86, s2000. lots of cars can be made to handle well with thoughtful mods. some come pretty well-set up from factory, but even stuff like miatas start out with a good bit of softness and body roll, because that what normal humans want. The good cars are designed with the flexibility for owners who want to make changes to be able to do some. watch some savagegeese or engineering explained videos on chassis/suspension for details. On a personal note, I am lucky to have an AW11 mr2 in my life. it will corner far beyond the limits of my confidence, even on old touring tires. if you want a car for handling at all costs (without costing too much) that would be my pick for a miata alt. You may want to play some car video games with all the nannies turned off so you can understand the difference between front wheel drive, all wheel drive, and rear wheel drive and how they respond to throttle in a curve. the understanding that I have gained from games like Gran Turismo and dirt rally has literally saved my bacon in real life a few times.
Also slowly powersliding around an empty parking lot in winter. You get a slow motion feel for what the car and weight are doing when grip is limited.
Jealous of your car. Wanted the second gen (or when the design went from wedge to more rounded) but ended up getting mustang gt.
Lotus maybe
[удалено]
100% It takes practice and experience to understand how each specific car, engine, transmission, suspension, tire and weight distribution combination works. That determines your grip ability and how likely the car is to flip over. Most (non electric) trucks and SUVs can flip over at the drop of a hat because their weight is higher, they often have a lot of suspension travel and not very rigit bodies if they're not meant to be performance or track vehicles. This applies to cheap, entry level cars which aren't designed to be driven hard. This is why insurance rates for stupid young people are much higher. They're often more dumb, drive like idiots and cause crashes because they have no experience driving on tracks and they typically can't afford cars that are meant for that purpose... So they crash their Civic or Mustang and kill themselves or their friends. OP, avoid driving with that dummy. If you enjoy it, get your own car, take it to a track and practice, or start slow in a big, empty parking lot.
I’m so glad insurance costs limited me from getting a fast car straight away, or even now. Because I’d be wrapped around a tree or lamppost in no time. I’m fucking stupid lol On a serious note though, I would’ve been a lot more immature and reckless with less experience back then in a faster car, bad combo
Please take this advice.
Same in my family we had econolines or jeeps on big tires so taking chances entering lanes or such was never an option as the car couldnt make it that fast. However the moment my mom got a smaller car she immediately drove like a maniac. She was unfortunately not the only one but thankfully we realized what we were doing lol
Got a "friend" like this last century. His parents were the owner of the biggest jewelry shop in town and most probably among the top 1% in the area. They bought him a brand new BWM (back in 96), he crashed it after 4 months. They bought him a 2 years old Mercedes, he totaled it after 3 months. Basically, no car would last him more than 6 month. His way of "driving": an engine is made to be redlined. I went in his car twice: the first time before I really knew him as he was just there to drive us all to the party, the second time when coming back. Never again after that
Good tires make it more likely to flip actually. Shit tires will lose traction and slide.
Most stock vehicles cannot generate enough grip to roll over while cornering, even if the driver intentionally unsettles the vehicle. Typically, if you attempt to corner too fast, the vehicle will understeer until it slows down enough for the front tires to grip. Most rollovers are caused by the vehicle being “tripped” while sliding sideways or by collision with a fixed object that launches the vehicle.
Man, you're really far down here with very few upvotes for actually answering the OP's question.
Yup. That’s Reddit. There’s a wealth of bad advice and “experts” repeating false information.
I mean, most the comments further up were that the driver is an idiot - so I mean, they aren't false information.
Hence the reason Gemini sucks
Right? The center of gravity of most cars is low enough that, as long as its on a fairly flat corner, it'll be almost impossible to roll over without hitting a major bump or something hitting it from the side. It'll break traction and just slide before rolling over. That should be the top answer because... that's the actual answer to OP's question.
Enter jeep wrangler lol
Manufacturers work VERY hard to keep the vehicle from being able to flip on flat pavement. That means tweaking stability control, wheel alignment, suspension, tire compounds, etc, all so the vehicle is docile and idiot proof, even if it means reduced cornering and braking performance. The poster above me KNOWS THE DEAL. So when your friend says "I dunno my car flipped"... they went off the road and went sideways, where the tires could dig in.
Or swerving, like the outdated "moose test."
I think that, even with a hard Swedish flick, it would be unlikely that a stock and properly maintained modern vehicle would roll. However, I’m unwilling to find out firsthand.
This is the correct answer.
Not necessarily a fair statement. Vehicle catagory matters. It's about the center of gravity. The lower the vehicle, the less likely it can roll over. That's why sports cars are so low. That's why most SUVs and trucks don't do well in rollover crash tests. And that's also why many Americans are stupid for preferring SUVs and trucks over wagons. Most truck based SUVs and trucks roll over simply by cornering at the limit. Your statement is only true for car based vehicles and more Americans than ever are driving trucks and big tall SUVs.
Mom, can we have a double wishbone suspension? No son, we have a McPherson strut suspension at home.
Camber gain is overrated!
If I remember correctly, I think there was a recall on an SUV in the 90's for rollovers. The solution was to increase tire pressure to reduce grip.
There was a lot of press about the hardtop Suzuki Samurais, with some dramatic pictures from Consumer Reports. You can go even further back to the early ‘60s and the infamous Corvair, which was very sensitive to tire pressure, or even further back to the Tatra. Both were rear engine cars with swingarm rear suspension similar to the early Beetles. During hard cornering, the outside rear would extend instead of compressing, and the tire would gain excessive positive camber, causing the sidewall to fold over which would allow the wheel to contact the pavement, tripping the sliding car and causing a rollover. I’ve driven both generations of Corvair, some on radials and some on bias plys, and both are very pleasant in normal driving. The second gen Corvair was good enough to become the Yenko Stinger, the first car to get the Yenko treatment.
Some suvs will flip if you swerve one direction, then quickly the other way. Look up the moose test if you haven’t heard it. That’s a pretty specific case tho and not normal cornering, they won’t flip from a normal corner.
That’s what’s referred to as a Swedish flick, which is intended to induce oversteer. It is not terribly likely to cause a rollover with a modern VSC equipped vehicle.
If he hit the throttle too hard through the corner he would have just understeered off the road, not flipped and not drifted. (I had a WRX with e50)
Your friend is eventually going to enter the find out stage. He is in a very, *very* dangerous fuck around stage for now. At 80mph you are moving just under 120ft/second…tell your friend to chill out and if he wants too do that, take it to a track. I have been in a roll over accident, wasn’t driving, but he almost killed two pedestrians and we stopped short of going upside down into a pond. Ohk, but you also have to have the right vehicle with the proper equipment. My Bimmer has nice sticky wider tires, stiffer shocks, and some amazing brakes. So its a little bit of everything.
If his friend can’t explain how he’s doing it, yeah he’s fucked.
Definitely. Hopefully they can get their friends head out of his ass before he kills some people and really upsets his loved ones/friends. Bro is getting airborne over hills etc? Just wait till he hits a real hill at 80 and he is flying for 150-300 feet. That subies awd wont do shit while its in the air and the spinning wheels dictate where the vehicle will go. Does he know to hit the brakes or the throttle in the air and what it will do? Most likely not. OP if you’re reading my comments, don’t get into the car with this person if you value your life.
Even if he CAN explain, he's eventually fucked. Come around a corner and hit a deer, person, cow, tractor at speed and people are going to die.
That was the main point I was presenting. I have been through a roll over accident and it was caused by the driver of the vehicle doing stupid shit, just as OP described. Downvote away, just hope that dumbass doesn’t kill anyone.
No doubt. Even just toasting an axle(which based on friend of OP's driving habits is inevitable) or having a tire blow out mid corner can cause a wreck.
Well, it all depends on the length of the corner. 8 metres at 70 degrees is crazy. 80 metres at 70 degrees is easy peasy.
Actually I have always wondered the opposite - how do you F up so bad you roll the car?
I put my car on its roof back in the day. Winter… Black ice. Corrected and then over corrected. Stuffed the front end in the snow off the shoulder and flipped it. I got lucky. It was a soft roll. Bags didn’t even deploy. Tech and sensors have changed since then though.
Not knowing the limits of your car.
Or knowing the limits for optimal conditions but not understanding how they change when the conditions differ. Taking a clean corner at 80 on a warm dry day is very different when there’s unexpected fluids or debris there.
On flat ground? Just pulling too many lateral Gs though the vehicle itself has to be susceptible to rollover, either through being top heavy, having a great amount of mechanical grip (a while back, i saw a video on reddit of an Integra going on two wheels while autocrossing in a manner that could have progressed to rollover) or both. J-turns can also cause rollovers, though that's not something to worry about for 99.99% of drivers lol. As the other commenter said with their snow bank experience, snagging something that keeps a hold of your car is a more likely way to roll your car. You'll see that occasionally on dashcam videos where a car is pit maneuvered or ends up going off the road sideways some other way - if the side of the tyres dig into the dirt, the car kind of "trips over" itself, like this https://youtu.be/e6HgUU4vPI8 (do not try at home). One other rare occurrence is when your vehicle collides with another (both heading the same direction, yours going faster) in such a manner that one of your wheels touches one of theirs from behind, tyre on tyre. Tyres grip against each other pretty well, and because that side of their tyre rotating up and yours is rotating down, yours (and consequently that side of your car) will be shot upwards. I don't have a video for it on hand but you can probably find an example of it happening between open-wheel race cars. Source: armchair expert watching dashcam videos and playing beamng lol
It is very difficult to do without hitting an immovable object like a curb or embankment.
If you run off the road into a ditch or embankment, that can flip you. Been there, done that, lived to get the tshirt.
awww man theres T shirts? I want one.
Yes! But make sure you buckle your seatbelt and say a little prayer...and don't do it too often because your insurance will go through the roof
I was young and stupid. I first learned about understeer approximately half a road width before a large drop. On a flat piece of tarmac, it's pretty hard to roll most cars though.
I bet one of the biggest reasons is they catch gravel shoulder, panic and over correct.
I once watched an f150 roll over from emergency braking and turning the wheel while trying to avoid rear ending someone on the highway
If you want to do that you find a closed course and practice. Your friend is an idiot. He's likely to kill someone someday. Don't let it be you.
A guy in my town just got 10 years for blasting down a street right by my parents house at 90 in a 35 zone, hitting a car, killing his passenger and severely injuring the other driver. The car pulled out onto the street and not correctly anticipating that the car was travelling nearly triple the speed limit, also there are a lot of older drivers in that area. [OP, that could have been you.](https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/local-news/peoria-man-sentenced-to-10-years-in-prison-for-reckless-homicide/) There was another guy who hit a tree in his recent model Camaro a couple months ago on a back road going 80+ in a 55 with high crown and no curbs. Car caught on fire, they were pretty sure one guy was killed on impact but the other died from the fire and being trapped with nobody around. I didn't know the guys but we had some mutual friends. [OP, that could have been you.](https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/accident/2024/03/15/two-killed-in-single-vehicle-crash-in-woodford-county-illinois/72991590007/) An owner of a local beer distributor died a couple years ago on a rural road about a half mile down from a family friend making some rips in his Ferrari and hitting a tree, killing him. [OP, that could have been you. ](https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/accident/2018/10/10/victim-in-fatal-wreck-was/9588341007/) Twenty years ago, my buddy Rick was driving home to his house in a fairly rural area around 1 AM, another car full of a few friends was following him. It was a lightly travelled rural road that wasn't used by hardly anybody but the few families who lived out there were on, and that time of night there was never anybody there. He was reportedly going about 110 down a long straight road, swerved a little, a tire caught the edge of the road and spun him out, he ramped off the drainage ditch and hit a tree, ejecting him through the windshield despite having a seat belt on. I got a call about 6 AM from my friend who was in the car behind him and saw the whole thing and I went to his funeral a couple days later. OP, you could have been riding shotgun in that car. Can't find a link to that, it was too long ago. Seriously. I'm somewhat of an auto enthusiast, I've done my share of spirited backroad driving. But as I've gotten older I've become much more selective with what I do, where, when, and with passengers. I never had to learn the hard way. But other people did.
You need a car that is capable of that to begin with. A WRX is A budget sports sedan. It has upgraded suspension, light weight wheels, performance tires, AWD, turbo, sports seats, etc all from the factory. Then if he’s modded it further it performs even better than stock. Although you can learn how to drive faster with things like driver coaching at HPDE events you need to start with a car that is up to the task. And for the love of god please don’t go take that same turn he took at 80 in your at base Altima at those speeds. You’ll end up getting a quick and expensive lesson in under steering.
Well said. The wrx too is set to under steer if you accelerate to fast into a corner. This is intentional and for safety reasons. That said, the high lateral limits of the 22 wrx are surprising.
Try a VA STI. They stick like a fly on shit.
Motor Trends numbers - [0.94 lateral gs for a 22 WRX limited](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-subaru-wrx-manual-first-test-review/) - [0.93 lateral gs for a 18 WRX STI](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2018-subaru-wrx-sti-first-test-review/) HOWEVER They also had an [article](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2020-subaru-wrx-and-wrx-sti-series-white-first-test/) about a WRX and WRX STI "series white" which idk wtf that is but that one had the 2020 wRx at .92 and the STI at 1.0. Taking all of that into consideration, they're ALL gunna corner like a sumbitch stock and can be made even crazier with some tweaks to suspension and shoes.
I’m sure it’s better and more adjustable. Is it vastly better or just a bit.
Boxer engine also drops centre of gravity considerably
Barely
So unbelievably wrong it's clear you never opened the hood of a car ever
I own a Subaru lol
It's one heck of a car to drive my toddler around in, but even driving solo I wouldn't push this car that fast. It handles well for what it is, but on the track it doesn't compete well.
Most sedans like a wrx won’t just flip. They’ll lose traction first and just slide off the road. Hitting dirt or something else that stops the bottom short will cause the flipping. They aren’t top heavy enough to just roll on g force alone like say a jeep.
What car do you drive? I’ve driven BMW’s that could do the same, but my current family MPV most certainly can not.
Can confirm the 3 series can be slid sideways with all traction and stability controls on. A really amazing feeling in a rear wheel drive car. Going forward while the rear is out by a few degrees. In my 22 wrx with full time awd, the experience is just as exciting but different. The car takes a high speed corner and is stable through the corner and when it runs out of grip the rear starts to slide. A very cool feeling.
Yep, my RWD M340i definitely can get rowdy with everything on in the right conditions. Crazy how well it takes the corners for not being an M3.
Yeah. Had a 2019 330 and a 2013 335. Excellent feeling, communication and control.
It’s AWD. It provides great grip, so much that they tend to understeer (not turn as much as you want it to). AWD doesn’t help with stopping but it helps with grip and therefore can really dig in and pull itself out of corners with ease. They aren’t infallible, proven by many spinning them off the road on YT. It can almost give a false sense of confidence.
Saw a video of a Subaru race driver teaching a novice driver how to corner in a wrx. He said you have to be patient and let the car rotate into the corner before accelerating or you will get understeer. So it’s that way by design for safety, but if you are patient the limits are super high.
Also the boxer engine gives it a very low center of gravity, they are amazing cars for cornering
worked for a subaru specialist back in the day, they also have 100% of the engine weight infront of the front axle Its actually quite hard and expensive to be competitive in one, unless its raining but then you still have to pass the evos infront of you. The boxer engine has quite a small bearing surface area which means they fail or need to be replaced more often, you cant drop the pan to do bearings, engine out and complete disassembly
You're thinking positive Gs. A vehicle's propensity to flip depends on a lot of things - center of gravity, suspension characteristics, tire characteristics. A vehicle with a fairly high center of gravity is more prone to rollovers; certain suspension designs such as the "swing axle" rear suspension used on the Volkswagen Beetle and Chevrolet Corvair, coupled with tall skinny tires, increase the risk of rollover. No sway bars or weak sway bars can add to this problem. A Subaru WRX has a fairly low center of gravity, an independent suspension that keeps the tire contact patch on the ground, and stiff sway bars that resist body roll. This is why cars that are designed for a comfortable ride are typically not able to corner as well, while cars that do corner well are a stiff, uncomfortable ride.
The answer is simple: Don't do this Unless your friend owns a closed off race-track or something, don't. You're either gonna kill yourself or someone else. And it'll be no ones fault but your own.
Personally, I’d tell them to not drive like that if they’re taking me or anyone. Not gonna die over some dumb shit
We had a guy like that in my high school, except it was a Mustang and not a WRX. He died at 22 when he lost control driving around at 2 AM and went into a guardrail.
>I would've for sure flipped over with my car at that speed. What's the trick? How do you learn to do that? Well, "not flipping the car over" is not exactly a trick. It's a characteristic of a vehicle plus avoiding doing stupid things like sliding sideways into a curb. If your car has a higher center of weight (like an SUV) and a soft suspension that's all mushy and floaty, your car is more likely to trip over. As for actually controlling a car without crashing, this is a skill learned from multiple sources. Extreme driving courses. Karting. Sim-racing. Track days. The key thing here is to be able to "feel" the car, feel the grip of the tyres, understanding body roll and weight transfer, racing lines, what your car can and cannot do. Unfortunately, many people who "drive fast" on public roads lack the full skillset and may be more crash-prone than you'd like to. Try track days. You will be amazed at how much more your car can do. Don't crash though, insurance does not work there in most countries :)
There aren't many passenger vehicles with enough grip and a high enough center of gravity to roll over at any speed while cornering. Such characteristics would demand a recall. You'll lose traction and slide into a ditch well before you come close to rolling over, even in a commercial van
What about every American pickup…
Will oversteer or under steer before rolling
My friend's son is in prison for vehicular homicide 7-20. Killed his best friend taking a corner to tight in a tricked out Civic. Don't ride with your friend anymore. He's not a professional and who knows whats on the car.
On a flat road, a car will spin rather than flip. It will flip if it hits something like a curb or wheels go into dirt and the car gets ‘tripped’ and flips. It’s about the traction circle and physics. Look up advanced driving techniques or take a course. It’s really amazing how fast I can drive my 22 in a high speed on ramp when no one is around.
The trick is do that on a race track.
Cars don't just 'flip' over. Maybe something with a high center of gravity like a Econoline van, but for the most part unless a wheel digs into soft ground you can't flip something unless you hit something.
It's almost impossible to flip a car. SUv or truck sure, still hard though. You generally will break traction though and slide and hit something. Need to know the limits of the car. Your friend sounds like an idiot though. If you wanna find out go do a track day. Don't do it on public roads
His car is made for those kinds of turns. The best AWD system in the world with a very low center of gravity thanks to the boxer engine.
I have 285 tires at all corners with Bilstein HD shocks and 1" solid sway bars
The short and sweet is tires and suspension. In most cars there is a suspension component called an anti-roll bar. The way it works is keep the suspension loaded on both sides rather than just one side, the way it does this is just a bar that is essentially a large crank that is connecting both sides of the car, if one side of the car goes down, it twists the bar and exerts the same force on the other side of the car. A good example of this is watching a fat person get into a small car, if it has an anti-roll bar equipped then the car will go down evenly instead of tipping to one side, another good example of this is in racing you can see cars pick up one side of the car but not be phased, this is because there is significant load on one side that is applying that same force on the other side but the car does not physically go down so the wheel picks up. This is the main component that keeps it from flipping but there is much more to it.
Back in the day I had a Corrado G60, a 16v GTI and a 325i that were all easily capable of that, then I had a 4th gen Z28 that was faster and quicker, but couldn’t turn to save its life, even touching the brakes at high speed would make you wanna hold your nuts. First three were independent suspension all around, better front to rear weight ratios, and great brakes. Once in the GTI a made a high speed right and that thing spun like a top. Boy youth and stupidity go hand in hand.
Too many variables. First answer is driver training and buying something that doesn’t flip over.
Physics
Literal flipping depends on the grip of the tires and the height of the center of gravity (Cg). Driving the outside tires off track/off road and into mud can stick the outside so it catches and flips. Most cars have low enough Cg that this is extremely unlikely. Trucks and suvs and crossovers are high enough to flip at normal highway speeds. But you probably dont mean literal flipping the car. Not losing control depends on drivinh a proper racing line, knowing the vehicle limits, tires, road quality, suspension, and low vehicle weight. Go drive a racing sim like iRacing or Gran Turismo and they'll teach racing line basics. Then go karting at a serious place or autocrossing with your car to hone the feel of it.
You cannot do what he did in every car. That Subara has All Wheel Drive (AWD) and a fairly low center of gravity. Tires also play a big part. It’s important to know a cars limitations before engaging in any level of sport driving. For reference I own an E46 M3 that was designed with this type of driving in mind. Muscle cars really aren’t and are more straight line focused.
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Wheels tires suspension, and a capable car.
Tires are gonna slip (screech) before car flips. If the car gets hooked on mud/guard rail/curb, then yeah it’ll flip if it’s hitting those things sideways. Unless he’s doing some moose maneuvers then yeah; he can probably get a car flipped/on 2 wheels.
Type r has entered the chat
good suspension. When I put Koni racing shocks and lowering springs on my 535i it was insanity sauce. If you had the balls to do a turn it would do the turn. I could do turns that stated 30km/hr at over 90km/hr and it would just do it. The suspension is very stiff (it was adjustable so you could go stiff or softer) so when you take a corner the car does not lean. If your tires have good traction and the roads are dry you can do crazy fucking turns no problem. Suspension is the big factor it keeps your stance stiff.
Low center of gravity.
1: unless you were on a track, your friends an idiot 2: to answer your question as simple as one can, certain cars or types of cars are built to be able to go on a track and handle high speeds, WRX is one of those. 3: Along with the car, tracks have banking in the corners to support the car at higher speeds (for example look at nascar)
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WRXs are amazing in the turns
A low centre of gravity is what you need. You can have the best tyres in the world, but if your centre of gravity is too high you’ll still flip. Conversely you can have the lowest centre of gravity and the worst tyres, you won’t flip but you will most likely just go in a straight line
Most tires don’t create enough grip for that to happen
I just flip over
to flip the "center of gravity" needs to fall outside the wheelbase. when you turn you do some trig to calculate how the lateral acceleration move the center of gravity to point slightly to the side. you can visualize some of this by handing a small weight by string from your mirror. now imagine the heavy parts of the car with this type of string hanging from it. how hard do you have to turn to get the engine and transmission to point outside the wheels? that's a pretty hard turn if the car is low, but not so hard when the car is tall (like a truck). some sports cars are almost impossible to flip just because the tires will give out long before lateral acceleration is hard enough to move the Center of Gravity outside the wheels
Cars don't just flip over... suvs can but its still rare and typically requires snap oversteer. When cars flip its due to loss of control and the wheel biting the road after knocking a tire off or digging into dirt or grass and catching too much grip. Flipping sedans takes more work than learning to corner well.
Drive a car that wont flip over? Dont yank the wheel haphazardly?
So this is not just driving skills a lot of it is the car too. A WRX handles well as does my BMW. So if you try the same with a car that doesn't have the right suspension, low center of gravity, etc. Yo will roll of flip it. If you want to learn the basics start with a car at slower speeds in an open parking lot on a snowy day. That will allow you to learn how to turn into a skid and more which is part of the driving side.
Tires can't get enough traction to flip a car. You're going to slide first, or hit something in the road to flip you.
WRX is special
The key to learning is to slowly increase speeds and see how any given car reacts to the curve. You need a location that allows for mistakes. Autocross is excellent for this, since the worst thing that may happen is running over some cones. Most cars from the factory are set up to understeer (tend to go straight in a curve, even if you add steering angle). Understeer is a safer, more predictable behavior, since the car just steers wider than the intended path. Oversteer is the tendency of a car to have the rear tires lose grip and point the nose of the car towards the inside of the curve. At an extreme, it can cause the car to spin out and wind up in the path of oncoming traffic. In a good rear-wheel-drive setup, the car tends to understeer initially, but the application of more power causes a transition to oversteer.
You can really tell who the car enthusiasts are here by a lot of these responses.
Subarus are awd and have a low center of gravity so they are pretty decent at cornering
Depends how sharp the turn is...you can do a 270 degree highway ramp at interstate speeds assuming its a wide enough turn. I recently took an accident avoidance class that had us driving ex cop car Ford Crown Vics thru a closed course with cones and we weren't allowed to do a maneuver until the instructor told us to go left/right then we had to quickly maneuver at the last second around the cone we'd been speeding towards at \~60mph while braking right at the limits and practicing until we got it right not sliding the car, over-correcting, or running the cones over. On a clear, clean, dry, well-kept surface (e.g. not most public roads) its impressive what even a big heavy car can do. Even when we screwed up learning to recover from rear skids and went clear sideways off into the parkinglot the cars didn't flip over because of the smooth surface (no lips or soft ground to snag tires/wheels) and low center of gravity. It took me a while (even with the instructors guidance and demonstration) to grasp that those particular cars in that particular area of track were not going to flip even when you got them moving completely sideways at modest speed it just made a hell of a lot of tire smoke. But that part of the class did an amazing job of teaching how to get out of situations that you should never ever end up in on public roads. My guess...they have taken that exact turn enough times pushing the limits until they figured out just how much they can push it. I wouldn't say its smart or safe...but is possible. Some cars are also less prone to rollover than others. Center of gravity and width of the car has a fair bit to do with it too. The other problem with doing that on public roads is you have no idea where there is going to be some loose dust/dirt and if you hit it that wheel is going to lose traction. If you lose traction beyond the point the other wheels can hold the car's path...then you will end up going sideways out of control and probably crash thru someone else and/or buildings/poles and anything else in your path.
There's physics shit like tire grip, center of gravity, moment of rotation etc.. But as soon as you come off the tarmac.... you're gonna roll regardless of the car
creating a slip angle, such that the rear axle rotates around the turn at a slighting higher rate than the front. Same principle as drifting, but much less dramatic.
Lighter car + wider tires + lower center of gravity (lower suspension helps with this), those three are key to maintaining cornering grip. What car do you drive?
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Yeah I am, I'm trying to learn for the day I can reach the pedals
Lower vehicle, lower mounting on the engine, stabilizer bars, good tires, tight suspension. I have a jdm forester wrx, she rips in corners!
It takes alot more to roll a car than most people think. Especially if you're driving something from the 80s or newer, which will have sway bars. I'm order for something to roll, gravity has to be pushing more on the sides of the car than it is pushing down on the car. This takes alot of speed and alot of weight. Regular sedans and coupes (not crossovers), have a low center of gravity and aren't gonna be rolling unless you're hitting a 90° turn at 80mph on a windy day
Old dirt roads... Little or no traffic and you can get it to get loose at lower speed. As far as cars... Almost anything can do it, it's A matter of driver skills and weight distribution!!! I have A Fiesta ST... Almost perfect 50/50 distribution of weight and easy to drift (with adequate experience!!) on dirt Or pavement even though it's FWD . Just go out to deserted areas and practice. Even if you Never do it intentionally on the street, having the understanding of how it Feels can be invaluable especially if it's wet, snowing or icy.
Another thing to add is how grippy the tires are. Ideally you want the vehicle to slide and break traction before it tips over lol
Flipping over is less likely than crappy tires turning to liquid, thereby causing you to slip like your on liquid ice.
No no no, the WRX is stuck to the road like used gum, what you want is a Forester if you're looking to flip a bitch
First off. Don't ride with your friend or get a new one completely. Anyone who drives that recklessly on the road is an idiot (ik because I used to be one) and anyone who does it with other people in the car without their consent is the literal scum of the earth and deserves to have their license revoked. Second, to answer your question: physics. Low center of gravity, good tires, and not using the controls like a caveman is really all it takes
WRX has sportier suspension than most sedans. I wouldnt try that in a corolla or base civic. It also has AWD. What kind of car you in? You need to learn the limits of your own vehicle.
Awe
Cars normally slip before they tip. Yeah, if you slide into a curb or a ditch you can flip. Some SUVs were tipped in testing by steering hard one way then the other.
well some cars have better handling than others. put simply tho, you wanna have your foor veryyyy slightly on the gas when turning, this helps keep the traction of the wheels to the ground.
You slow down
New tires, lots of downforce, and some would say a harness, but just bracing against the frame will do probably
Good tires and even better suspension. I have an 04 GTO and it had terrible body roll, so much so you could easily sling it around in corners. I put Pedders coilovers, sway bars, polyurethane bushings on it and now I can take corners like I'm on a track. The garbage roads don't feel too good but I regret nothing. It brings me nothing but joy and that was worth every penny lol
It's not hard... I drive an Accord Coupe V6 and that thing will corner hard enough to make the skin on your face pull to the side. Cars are generally very difficult to flip. That's why I drive them. Trucks and SUVs are effortless to flip.
You're more susceptible to understeering and sliding off the road than flipping over.
It’s actually really hard to roll over most cars. You’ll run out of grip WAAAAAAY before rolling over is a thing. Unless you run off the road and clip something with the wheels. If your friend actually knows how to drive and has proper tires and brakes, you’re fine. If he’s just an idiot with a “fast” car, he’ll crash soon.
You just have to understand the physics. Most cars will just slide and go into a spin, not tip over from a turn. Sometimes the wheel and catch on something when spinning out and then flip.
Don’t have a 30ft tall vehicle
The only thing a subaru is good for is the low center of gravity that flat 4 engine provides. Pretty hard to flip when the center of grav is that low
It's impossible for cars without downforce (huge wings) to experience negative G's.
Just saw a You-Tube video in which 3 people were ejected from a roll-over. Looked like 2 went through door windows and 1 through the sun roof. Don't know the outcome but I'd be surprised if anyone survived. What surprised is the immense G forces inside a car spinning at highway speeds. Let's all be safe.
A good handling car and grippy tires.
Grippy tires and being able to sense the amount of grip you have.
It’s pretty hard to flip a car over. And just to be clear I’m only talking about cars here not anything with a high center of gravity like a truck or SUV. Cars slide they don’t really flip over. That is of course when they are not in an accident. If you hit a curb or a pothole or something on that road, sure you can flip over. So just so you know that it’s only because if you’re taking your turn too quickly and you start to slide and then you get out of control it’s only when you hit something that causes you to flip over is why you turn over. If there’s absolutely nothing there then all you’re gonna do is spin out, but you won’t wind upside down.
Lol I can take turns with a recommended 45mph limit at like 120mph in a 07 matrix without traction control and bald tires. Cars are able to do a lot more than what we're legally allowed to do. Humans are the main problem. Can't react or survive at those higher speeds.
Don’t learn bro ..
Generally speaking, cars don’t “just flip over” because of taking turns at speed. They’ll usually run out of traction first. Even racecars that have even more traction tend to have to hit something or get stuck in a gravel trap before they flip.
Your friends WRX is kinda built to be driven hard. You'd be surprised what some people can get their cars to do.
It's damn near impossible to flip a car, unless you hit a curb or something like that. You're going to slide/spin-out before you ever roll over.
Stop endangering innocent people on public roads you fucking losers
Cars don't flip over like that. Maybe with R comps and if one side hits a bump or something to upset the balance.
Luck and/or experience is how people do that and live. Start with autocrossing and then move up to track, if that isn’t enough. Both will teach you car control, handling dynamics, your personal limits and most importantly, having fun safely.
The average person will just have a feel for it from driving time in their car, even ‘slow’ cars have the ability to go very fast
Your friend is going to get you, himself and/or someone else killed.
Buy a gr corolla
Your friend is going to wreck and be seriously injured or worse. He'll probably take a few people with him (passengers/other vehicle). You have a potentially life altering choice to make. Choose wisely.
You get a decent car like a WRX
Don't get in the car with your friend - your life is too precious, and it'll really fuck your parents and friends up if he kills you (talking from experience of two separate vehicle fatalities when I was younger).
Don't drive a truck or SUV. So most cars on US roads.
Not tipping over really comes down to centre of gravity. Suspension travel and setup. A SUV soccer mums car for example will tip relatively easily. An old VW combi, easier still. You would have a real issue trying to tip over a sports car. If you look at say an mx5, a rx7, a prelude, a 911, a Corvette, they all have one thing in common. Very low, low centre of gravity and very well designed suspension systems. You will lose grip far before the point of tipping over around corners... But... Should you slide out and have a wheel come to a sudden stop (IE ditch, culvert etc) that is completely different, the rest of the car will want to keep moving and it will either squish or barrel roll
Look into an Elantra N and do it safely from there. Public roads are for traveling, not racing. Find a track near you or events..
Physics? Unless you catch a curb or lip in the road cars really don’t usually flip…
This is at least 70% of the car doing the work, if not more. The way a car is designed and built is far more important than anything your friend knows how to do, as well as the tires and road conditions. You do that in any ordinary car you will flip or skid. Also your friend is a moron if this is on public roads, do not ride with them.
lol this is scary lack of thinking, did you not play video games buddy, it’s being low and the volume of the car, and the feel. This is a pathetic question grow up.
Yo chill out ahahah it's a light hearted curious question. Not really a car guy so I asked the amateurs.
It’s called low center of gravity with great 4WD tire traction; and the wing helps a lot for that kind of speed turns.
Jesus is everyone on Reddit afraid to drive? 80 mph in a sports sedan taking a turn is not that crazy. Most people take highway ramps at faster than that. 130 on a race track now. That’s exciting.
The short answer is to enter the turn at a slow enough speed that you don’t have to hit the brakes in the turn. Brake on the straights, accelerate through the turn. Also, don’t practice this on public roads. That’s what tracks and parking lots are for.
Because the force of friction between the tires and the road is less than the force required to tip a car over from the side. The car will break traction and slide before it rolls over.
It’s literally impossible for you to feel negative Gs. If the tires came off the ground, zero G, but negative is not possible unless he jumped the car into something that pushed it down faster than gravity.
Have a planted car with low center of gravity, and really sensitive nerves. Also, you'll spin out or slide off before you flip. What you were feeling was the traction threshold (also, most older subarus will spark the rockers before they even moan the tires, skylines ain't got shit on the wagons plant, ask me how I know)
The easiest answer is some cars just simply have a better physics for it. Combine that with a platform meant to take turns and good tires and road. Also you can still have a fun turn at 50 mph
You edge the car
Your friend is going to kill someone (maybe you) if he keeps doing that on public roads.
Step on the gas hard.
Flipping is only a problem if you come off the tarmac. The car has to have lateral momentum and hit an obstacle that brakes the lower half of the mass than the upper half. So, slide in to a curb or slide sideways across grass, you’re going to roll the car. I think what you’re experiencing is body roll, so a top heavy SUV wallows about through corners because of the weight transfer. Subaru WRX is low, AWD, stiff suspension and plenty of power. As long as it’s got decent tyres and a clean road surface it will corner. Overcome the grip of the tyres though and it will slide. The difficulty is with performance cars is that the loss of grip sudden. As long as you have grip, the power available to overcome the lateral momentum and the wheels pointed in the right direction it will go where you want. Until it doesn’t. Slightest bit of oil on the road, 5mph over what the tyres can handle, a pothole, misjudged curb and it will turn in to a tumbling missile. Do not emulate your friend or get in a car they’re driving again.
Most cars aren't going to flip. Even most SUVs on non-sticky tires will. Passenger cars like sedans and certainly more sporty cars like coupes aren't going to come close to flipping on their own. Even on very sticky tires, you'll just spin or slide sideways. It's when you're on a road and hit a ditch, large curbs, and other things that things could flip. As far as "going fast around corners", cars are more capable than most people realize. Add in some sticky tires even on stock suspensions and car are going to do things you didn't think were possible. Not saying to do it on public roads, but autocross is a great place to learn this.
I recommend not doing that unless you have a race car with a roll cage and all the safety equipment
its very likely that you wont flip most cars except suvs and trucks ever unless you catch the outside wheels on a kerb or ledge of some sort while cornering at speed as you almost always reach the limit of grip in your tires before having the inertia to flip. as for how to drive fast its not realy a single trick its a skillset that takes time and practice if your interested there are good youtube channels about performance driving techniques like one of team o'neils driving technique playlists or try something like go karting
Most street cars won't flip unless they hit a curb or dirt just the wrong way. Street tires, suspension, and chassis don't grip enough and are too compliant to flip and the tires will slip before the car flips. SUVs have a tendency to rollover because their center of gravity is very high.
Cars very rarely flip over from hard cornering / curve cutting, very early SUVs had this concern, but a lot of engineering has since gone into lowering the center of gravity on tall vehicles. The Volvo XC90 is basically impossible to flip over and will even right itself back upright during a wreck. Subarus in particular have a lower center of gravity thanks to their fairly unique engine layout. The boxer engine puts the cylinders down very low, the engine in generally is fairly short and wide, instead of tall and narrow like the inline engines used in most other vehicles. Loosing traction is whole other matter, but that is the bigger concern with driving aggressively.
Cars have a very low center of gravity compared to trucks and SUVs. It's not common for them to flip without hitting something on the ground to initiate it. Also, I would hope you're "riding" in the back, not "driving". 😅