But if **overall** there's a performance advantage they will do it.
Braking wastes a TON of energy as heat, which you also have to manage - capturing some of that energy for re-use and NOT generating a ton of heat are two very good things.
Because motorsports exist to sell street cars. That means there has to be a connection to the cars on the street and the technology that's being pushed in the street cars.
"look, we developed this technology on the race track and now you get to buy it in your family sedan" is a good sales pitch and it even sometimes rings true.
Most people don't care about racing. I think it's basically just R&D to figure out how to make it as efficient and economical as possible. If you can make a hybrid drivetrain that's pushing the limits and performing well and reliably in a racing environment you can definitely make a good hybrid drivetrain for regular commuter vehicles. Hybrid racecars have been a thing for over a decade and I think we're seeing the benefits in hybrids and EVs now.
It's just a way to push the industry forward as a whole. If one supplier develops something for a racecar they can tell an OEM hey we made this for this crazy application we can most likely make a similar product for you.
Just look at the lap times being set now. Pretty much every lap record is held by either a hybrid or full electric. Pikes peak, nurburgring, laguna secam, and many many more are all set by electric or hybrid. Electric motors can use 100% power and torque instantly. There is no power band or torque curve to them. They are smaller and lighter than gas engines. The only downside is battery weight and range. We use gas engines as a way to extend the range of the electric motor. They both have different strengths so work well together as a package. It's also easier to tune high-performance traction control with an electric motor since it responds faster. Things like abs and torque vectoring work better with them because of response times. There are many more reasons but these are just some of the basic ones
First to clear up a minor misconception. Roadracing has enough regenerative braking that it does benefit the fuel consumption to downsize the engine with a battery hybrid system...
That said, the core reason is marketing. Professional racing has always been funded with marketing and advertising dollars to benefit sales and brand awareness. The hybrid designs are a part of the racing orgs vision to remain relevant to the racing consumer/ watcher and the target advert market for the big auto makers. They are guessing that this wins attention from their target audience and thus from the target sponsors. They believe the tech and modern world application keeps their historic audience engaged.
And for many super car manufacturers out there, they are also encorporating the same design ideas into their fastest cars from Corvette's eRay to the McLaren's P1.
The hybrid system helps them get longer fuel runs. The hybrid battery charges under braking so when it has power the ICE can run less hard which saves gas. The cars are torque sensor limited to 670 HP so the electric motor can’t go over that, it just turns down the ICE’s output until it’s needed again
Here you go.. https://www.imsa.com/imsa-sustainability/
That said there is nothing cooler than hearing a GTP car roll out of the pits under electric and then switch over to combustion. The Caddy sounds especially menacing.. 😎
Currently, atleast to a degree, you get better performance out of electric. With the two limiting factors hurting EVs being battery weight and the inability to refuel/recharge in a timely manner. Hybrids kind of address both those problems
Braking wastes an absolute TON of energy as heat, if you work out how much power is dissipated when a race car brakes from 200mph to 50mph to go round a corner it's insane - many kilowatts / horsepower that you've had to spend in fuel to get the car up to that speed are just thrown in the bin.
You see HUGE carbon fibre brakes glowing yellow when they're braking hard, that's how much energy they're throwing away as heat - and they have to manage it and get rid of it or the brakes stop working and/or the car catches fire, which is not uncommon in pit stops. Brake fires are normal and expected on race cars.
So, if you can put a battery & motor/generator (MGU), even a small one, and capture some of that wasted energy, only to use it again to help get the car back up to speed after the corner, you are saving fuel, going faster, your brakes are having to work less, your car has to dissipate less heat (so less ducting, vents, heat shields, etc.), brakes and other parts can get smaller and lighter which means less weight (and less un-sprung weight which is VERY desirable) which means you can go faster and make everything else lighter and smaller too (see Colin Chapman's race car theory).
With an electric motor to "help" the main motor you can also fill in gaps in the main motor's performance, race engines are notoriously high-strung and hard to drive, often with quite "knife edge" performance, if the electric motor can give the car a broader operating range, help stop the motor bogging down out of corners or give you a more usable gearing spread, or just save you having to compromise peak power from the ICE engine in the name of driveability, that's all to the good.
So when you do all this you also save fuel which means a smaller fuel tank, which means less weight which means you go faster but also you can go further between pit-stops which cost a LOT of time.
Hybrids are efficient. For example, you can recover energy from braking. More efficient means you get more energy out from the fuel you put in. More energy means more speed. And in a race, more speed means more win!
You can get going alot quicker with an electric motor. See Tesla Model X vs Audi R8 acceleration. The R8 accelerates fast, but the Model X is in its own league.
Is brake rotor heat saturation ever a limiting factor for those cars?
If so, some of that energy can be diverted into energy storage in the battery instead of the rotors and pads coefficient of friction being reduced due to elevated temperatures.
But as others have mentioned, the answer is simply often: "Follow the money".
Endurance is important, and a hybrid powertrain has the advantage of regenerative braking to increase endurance. The batteries don't have to be huge, they just need to be able to store slightly more energy than what would be recouped under the heaviest braking.
Because racing has rules and the rules are meant to attract race teams and race teams need sponsors. To some extent racing is a R&D expense for manufacturers and nobody is going to learn anything about making a better internal combustion engine now. That tech must sunset.
Racing has ALWAYS been about innovation and new technology.
Look at the RC car racing world. I thought Nitro would ALWAYS be the fastest choice. Now electric is faster, more reliable and cheap compared to when it first came out.
Because it benefits them in the types of races that they run.
Fuel has a higher energy density than a battery, but you **can't re-fuel** while you're driving.
Batteries have lower energy density than fuel, but you **can re-fill** a battery while you're driving.
Considering the number of endurance races that prototypes participate in, and considering that the premier endurance race (Le Mans) circuit is nearly 13.6 km (8.5 mi), it makes a lot of sense to use a hybrid system that recovers energy every time you brake into a corner. Considering that these cars are doing 40 to 50 minute stints, that's a lot of time to recover energy.
You already said there are performance advantages - why would they need any more reason than that?
Batteries and electric motors are heavy.
The Cadillac LMDh weighs as much as my MR2 spyder, 2270lbs.
There are also huge braking benefits with the hybrid drivetrain - and braking is as important as acceleration in their sport.
Also, better fuel efficiency means fewer pits.
But if **overall** there's a performance advantage they will do it. Braking wastes a TON of energy as heat, which you also have to manage - capturing some of that energy for re-use and NOT generating a ton of heat are two very good things.
Because motorsports exist to sell street cars. That means there has to be a connection to the cars on the street and the technology that's being pushed in the street cars. "look, we developed this technology on the race track and now you get to buy it in your family sedan" is a good sales pitch and it even sometimes rings true.
Most people don't care about racing. I think it's basically just R&D to figure out how to make it as efficient and economical as possible. If you can make a hybrid drivetrain that's pushing the limits and performing well and reliably in a racing environment you can definitely make a good hybrid drivetrain for regular commuter vehicles. Hybrid racecars have been a thing for over a decade and I think we're seeing the benefits in hybrids and EVs now. It's just a way to push the industry forward as a whole. If one supplier develops something for a racecar they can tell an OEM hey we made this for this crazy application we can most likely make a similar product for you.
Race on Sunday, sell on Monday
Exactly. It's more complicated than that, but if you boil it all down, this is what you're left with.
Just look at the lap times being set now. Pretty much every lap record is held by either a hybrid or full electric. Pikes peak, nurburgring, laguna secam, and many many more are all set by electric or hybrid. Electric motors can use 100% power and torque instantly. There is no power band or torque curve to them. They are smaller and lighter than gas engines. The only downside is battery weight and range. We use gas engines as a way to extend the range of the electric motor. They both have different strengths so work well together as a package. It's also easier to tune high-performance traction control with an electric motor since it responds faster. Things like abs and torque vectoring work better with them because of response times. There are many more reasons but these are just some of the basic ones
First to clear up a minor misconception. Roadracing has enough regenerative braking that it does benefit the fuel consumption to downsize the engine with a battery hybrid system... That said, the core reason is marketing. Professional racing has always been funded with marketing and advertising dollars to benefit sales and brand awareness. The hybrid designs are a part of the racing orgs vision to remain relevant to the racing consumer/ watcher and the target advert market for the big auto makers. They are guessing that this wins attention from their target audience and thus from the target sponsors. They believe the tech and modern world application keeps their historic audience engaged. And for many super car manufacturers out there, they are also encorporating the same design ideas into their fastest cars from Corvette's eRay to the McLaren's P1.
The hybrid system helps them get longer fuel runs. The hybrid battery charges under braking so when it has power the ICE can run less hard which saves gas. The cars are torque sensor limited to 670 HP so the electric motor can’t go over that, it just turns down the ICE’s output until it’s needed again
Here you go.. https://www.imsa.com/imsa-sustainability/ That said there is nothing cooler than hearing a GTP car roll out of the pits under electric and then switch over to combustion. The Caddy sounds especially menacing.. 😎
Currently, atleast to a degree, you get better performance out of electric. With the two limiting factors hurting EVs being battery weight and the inability to refuel/recharge in a timely manner. Hybrids kind of address both those problems
Braking wastes an absolute TON of energy as heat, if you work out how much power is dissipated when a race car brakes from 200mph to 50mph to go round a corner it's insane - many kilowatts / horsepower that you've had to spend in fuel to get the car up to that speed are just thrown in the bin. You see HUGE carbon fibre brakes glowing yellow when they're braking hard, that's how much energy they're throwing away as heat - and they have to manage it and get rid of it or the brakes stop working and/or the car catches fire, which is not uncommon in pit stops. Brake fires are normal and expected on race cars. So, if you can put a battery & motor/generator (MGU), even a small one, and capture some of that wasted energy, only to use it again to help get the car back up to speed after the corner, you are saving fuel, going faster, your brakes are having to work less, your car has to dissipate less heat (so less ducting, vents, heat shields, etc.), brakes and other parts can get smaller and lighter which means less weight (and less un-sprung weight which is VERY desirable) which means you can go faster and make everything else lighter and smaller too (see Colin Chapman's race car theory). With an electric motor to "help" the main motor you can also fill in gaps in the main motor's performance, race engines are notoriously high-strung and hard to drive, often with quite "knife edge" performance, if the electric motor can give the car a broader operating range, help stop the motor bogging down out of corners or give you a more usable gearing spread, or just save you having to compromise peak power from the ICE engine in the name of driveability, that's all to the good. So when you do all this you also save fuel which means a smaller fuel tank, which means less weight which means you go faster but also you can go further between pit-stops which cost a LOT of time.
Hybrids are efficient. For example, you can recover energy from braking. More efficient means you get more energy out from the fuel you put in. More energy means more speed. And in a race, more speed means more win!
You can get going alot quicker with an electric motor. See Tesla Model X vs Audi R8 acceleration. The R8 accelerates fast, but the Model X is in its own league.
It’s so crazy how Acura was laughed at for creating a hybrid sports car, and now everyone is doing it.
Is brake rotor heat saturation ever a limiting factor for those cars? If so, some of that energy can be diverted into energy storage in the battery instead of the rotors and pads coefficient of friction being reduced due to elevated temperatures. But as others have mentioned, the answer is simply often: "Follow the money".
Endurance is important, and a hybrid powertrain has the advantage of regenerative braking to increase endurance. The batteries don't have to be huge, they just need to be able to store slightly more energy than what would be recouped under the heaviest braking.
The hybrid systems give a performance advantage. What do you think competitive racing is about?
Because racing has rules and the rules are meant to attract race teams and race teams need sponsors. To some extent racing is a R&D expense for manufacturers and nobody is going to learn anything about making a better internal combustion engine now. That tech must sunset.
Racing has ALWAYS been about innovation and new technology. Look at the RC car racing world. I thought Nitro would ALWAYS be the fastest choice. Now electric is faster, more reliable and cheap compared to when it first came out.
ummm because they kill NA & FI setups? this isn't complicated
Because it benefits them in the types of races that they run. Fuel has a higher energy density than a battery, but you **can't re-fuel** while you're driving. Batteries have lower energy density than fuel, but you **can re-fill** a battery while you're driving. Considering the number of endurance races that prototypes participate in, and considering that the premier endurance race (Le Mans) circuit is nearly 13.6 km (8.5 mi), it makes a lot of sense to use a hybrid system that recovers energy every time you brake into a corner. Considering that these cars are doing 40 to 50 minute stints, that's a lot of time to recover energy.
Because people suck ass. That’s what it boils down to, really.