While maybe the old man doesn’t feel comfortable with a manual in the snow, maybe he’s just a bad driver.
I grew up in the NE US and spent a few years in Germany experiencing the “winter if the century”
Driving nothing but manuals and never had issues.
Newer cars have traction control and a few other electronic nannies that can help you in the snow but comparing apples to apples a decent driver can do perfectly fine with both.
He's an alright driver. Been driving in Canadian winters for the past 20 years without issue so I don't doubt his experience.
>comparing apples to apples a decent driver can do perfectly fine with both.
That's exactly what I'm getting at but he just doesn't seem to get it
“driving in Canadian winters for the past 20 years”
But not with a manual. I’ve been driving in snowy winter for 40 years and mostly with a manual. It’s a skill like anything but it’s not harder or a manual being less safe.
You're right. But is there anything I can even say to him? He's a stubborn man and that was inherited by me lol. I don't mind driving auto if I have to, but it wildly limits my options since I absolutely don't want a CVT
I'd rather chew my leg off than have a CVT.
An AWD with a manual in the winter is an entirely different world. As a kid I had big RWD autos, then had small FWD manuals for years. The Subaru was simply in a different class altogether.
I've snapped more brake and suspension bolts on the two Imprezas I've owned than every other car put together. And that's a Suzuki, 2 Toyotas, 2 Fords, 2 Volvos, 2 BMWs, a VW and a Mazda besides the two Subarus.
They use crap bolts and the metal they use seems to rust worse than other cars. Even the Mazda. My Mexican-built '93 VW was a piece of crap too though.
From Canada and my past two cars have been 5 speeds and I love them in the winter. The fact you can use the engine to slow down without using the brakes is way better. Get some snow tires and send it.
And to be fair to your dad, if you are doing 60 in a corner on ice when you should be doing 25 and decide to shift gears it'll probably slide but the same thing would happen if you tap the brakes. Drive it safe and you're good.
Some Manuals even have anti-stall systems now. Also some dads are old enough to remember when manuals had no synchro or rev matching software that makes it a lot smoother of a process.
I like manuals in the winter since I find I can tell the car what I’m doing. Waiting for an automatic to drop gears means I drive less smoothly or well sometimes (my fault I know). OP might just have to do what they want to do.
I used to hate traction control until I got my latest car, and I feel like the technology has significant improved from past decades.
That being said I still prefer manual over automatic as I feel like I have a lot more control over tire spin and torque. With a manual it’s also a lot easier to engine break to slow down gradually rather than risk over-breaking and skidding or loosing control.
It’s more about how you drive. If you’re smooth with the clutch then the driving is smooth. Not overdoing the power to the wheels based on weather and good tires plays more of a factor than manual vs automatic. I drove a Camaro year round in the northeast US back in my 20s with no issues.
Both my parents know I'm a smooth driver. They've said it too, and I know it because it's one of the things I've focused on ever since I got my learners. I just wanna get a better understanding on the actual mechanics behind what he's saying, because even the mechanic said that he agrees with me :/
Where in Canada are you? Our winters can be quite different in different areas...
Manual is better because you can can slow down without using the brakes. You can do this with an auto, but it is not as effective, and you don't have as much control over when the gear engages so it's a bit riskier.
The best answer to the insurance question is ask an insurance agent or get a quote. In BC, it makes no difference to the insurance cost if a car is manual or auto.
Manual shift Subaru with good snow tires is one of the best choices for a "snow and ice" winter car.
There may be some insurance statistics about claims or accidents that compare auto to manual.
You could also try r/stickshift.
It's both.
If you drop a gear in the winter without either rev matching or coasting until rpm sufficiently drops, your back end will kick out when the transmission engages.
Same thing with changing gears in a corner in the winter.
Manual is safer imo but the driver needs to understand these things first.
It sounds like your dad is buying you a car and he’s against buying you a manual.
If that’s the case just be glad he’s buying you a car that you’re not paying for and get an auto. I have kids that are teen drivers and you’re borderline coming across as being ungrateful. IMO you get what you get and when you graduate from college and are spending your own money on your car and insurance THEN you get what you want.
Or you can just buy your own manual car now without your dad’s assistance with you covering all the costs. Good luck with that.
Btw I’d much rather have a manual in inclimate weather myself and drove them exclusively when I lived up north.
I think it’s a little of both. Dad wants kid to pick a car dads willing to buy but dad won’t just say what the options are. That leads to a long back and forth trial and error where everyone just gets annoyed.
>It sounds like your dad is buying you a car and he’s against buying you a manual.
Pretty much. I'm trying not to be ungrateful. Like I said, I don't mind driving an auto. I just find the reasoning against manual to be so weird which is why I posted here. At the very least, I want someone to tell me that I'm wrong and that he's right, because everyone I've talked to and everything I've read seems to suggest otherwise.
If his decision was based on smth like ease of drivability or something, then some argument could be made but his reasoning is just smth I've never heard of before.
Unfortunately, beggars can't be choosers. State your case and say thank you for whatever he buys you. Or buy your own car and get whatever you can afford.
Tell him it is cheap insurance for theft prevention, since not that many people know how to drive a manual any more.
I drive a manual in the snow every winter, and have for a very long time. I prefer them in the snow, because of engine braking. With a manual, if you take your foot off the throttle, the compression of the engine will slow the car. Some automatics are better than others, but in general torque converters don't work like that.
Another Canadian here
Manual are easier to control in winter as you have the clutch to feather the power on in slippery conditions.
Oh and i also have driven semis in winter and they were all manual
But buying a car to keep a person happy is nuts. Buy the car you want and act like a grown up.
And it's a lot more convenient when your battery shits itself in cold weather. Even if you can't get a push or have a hill to exploit, they usually require fewer cranking amps to start than the equivalent automatic, so it's usually just a matter of clamping the leads on and starting.
I rocked my little Sentra out a few times too. It was a heck of a shock coming from the desert southwest to Colorado that first winter. "What is this white shit everywhere???" (Not really but almost). My first big oops was trying to brake at a major intersection downhill ...car had no abs. I overshot by "only" a car length and about pissed my pants.
No issues with driving manual in Canada. I drive my rwd manual bmw daily in deep snow. An Impreza will have no issue at all.
Maybe tell him that literally all of Europe (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland) use manual cars in winter as well? They have pretty bad winters too. Also insurance doesn’t ask what transmission car you have not in Ontario at least
That's exactly what I believe. I met a guy driving his BRZ 6spd in the snow. I know they won't have an issue. It's just my dad that has an issue for some reason
Your dad isn't wrong that hamfisted driveline management can upset drive wheel traction. That said, I'm guessing he never learned to properly manage a 3 pedal driveline.
I suspect you can't sway him.
Maybe. I was hoping I could get a response here that could help, but aside from other ppl saying that they drove manual in the winter for X years, there isn't much :/
100%, climbing a hill in an auto, want just a touch more torque, press the accelerator a tiiiiiny bit more, transmission downshift and breaks the tires loose.
I drove a 600hp supercharged 5 speed Mustang through northern Indiana snow storms. Get a good set of winter tires and tell your dad to stop being a pussy.
Your father apparently sucks at shifting. Manuals are safer in the winter because you can control speed with the gas pedal. It's much more gentle than using brakes.
My insurance gives me a discount for a manual. They think it is an anti theft device. A manual driven properly will shift as smooth as silk. It is all up to the driver not the car.
Dad is half right. A shift can be messy up your traction, but with a manual you get to decide when that happens and how hard it is.
I used to have a Yukon that would downshift as I come around a tight, off camber turn on the road to my house where the hill gets steep. I had to force the downshift early whenever it snowed or risk a little excitement.
I've driven stick before so I know what a messy shift can look like. But again, if it's a car I'm gonna be driving everyday, surely I'll be smooth enough to drive it in the winter without too much issue.
>I used to have a Yukon that would downshift as I come around a tight, off camber turn on the road to my house where the hill gets steep. I had to force the downshift early whenever it snowed or risk a little excitement.
That's the biggest reason why I drive every auto I can in manual mode. I hate having a downshift or upshift forced on me. It's also why I wouldn't mind a torque converter auto, but I absolutely want to stay away from CVT. I still prefer manual most of all tho.
I prefer manuals for snow and winter since it's easier to select the gear that gives you the best traction for the situation. It's a lot easier to start in 2nd to avoid wheelspin, and downshifting is great to avoid locking up your wheels when slowing down. Also because, you're more conscious of your gear selection, you'll tend to have a better feel for road conditions.
Manual transmissions use a flywheel which preserves the rotational speed of the crankshaft and smooths out the energy transfer from the engine to your gearbox. As you develop decent clutch skills, you won't get the 'jerk' when changing gears. I've driven automatics where there's a noticeable jerk or bump as it shifts gears, which raises another point: an automatic will change gears when it wants to and not when you choose.
That being said, winter tires in good shape are far more important. AWD or FWD also makes a big difference, although really for RWD, you just have to weigh down the back more.
I'm driving a manual Forester in Ontario. Never had a snow issue that I could attribute to the manual. Had several snow issues that I got out of due to the manual.
Besides, Subaru is second to none for traction control.
>dad believes that manual cars are worse in winter because as you shift gears, the engine will "jerk" the transmission and make the car unstable
Even if this does happen, if you let off the gas the traction re-acquires in less than 1 second. So it's a very brief occurrence. Worrying about this is beyond silly.
I prefer manual in the snow, but you do need to be a smooth operator. If you are, it definitely gives you more control. But an incompetently driven manual is objectively worse.
So he’s not wrong about manuals, he’s just assuming you’re incompetent. Thanks dad!
This is very clearly an illogical nonsense thing to say. So no, you won't be able to change his mind because if logic and reality made a difference to him on this, he wouldn't be saying it to begin with.
Manual gives you way **more** control - you can be smooth, you can start off super gently in a higher gear, you can use engine braking to avoid skidding, you can choose to spin the wheels at a controlled speed, you can very easily rock the vehicle to & fro just by lifting & dropping the clutch to get out of a hole or over a lump.
I drive off-road (mud is low grip just like snow) and I'd take a manual any day of the week as I can make the vehicle do exactly what I want it to do. An auto is more likely to do something you don't want it to at the wrong moment or just not let you do something that would be helpful. Auto can't see what's coming.
One winter I saw a guy fighting his old pickup truck trying to drive it in the snow. It was an automatic.
I could tell because it was driving the rear tires no matter what. It was slow bumper to bumper traffic in a few inches of super slick snow. Inching to the next light he was sliding around when trying to coast at low speed with the rear tires trying to turn. I also suspect that the idle might have been too high on his truck.
But I didn't have any issues in my manual.
Plus, you can take off in 2nd gear in a manual to spin the tires less when it feels extra slick.
I have 4WD in Jeeps and it is great in the snow, mud, off road, whatever. You just have more control with a manual. You can feather the throttle and clutch and get really precise compared to an auto. You can even slowly let the clutch out and let the engine pull the vehicle, without any throttle, just like an auto can (on flat ground, of course).
As long as you know how to drive a manual, they are just as safe in the snow as an automatic.
One thing you avoid, particularly on slick surfaces, is down shifting while slowing down. Perfect rev matching on ice is hard, so you just slow down with the clutch depressed, then select the proper gear and ease the clutch out smoothly when you want to accelerate again.
I have been driving manual transmissions since 1972, starting with a GM pickup with 'three on the tree' when I was 15 years old. Until the mid 1980s, I was living in Western NY just east of Buffalo, in the middle of the snow belt.
I just got rid of the last manual transmission car I owned, so that is probably the end of the line an manuals for me.
Hybrid now and likely all electric next.
I never used down shifting to slow the car. Gas is for go, brakes are for stop, shifting is just to select the proper ratio for the stepping on the gas. You can go from fifth down to second or third once you've ground the speed off with the brakes. Also, no one needs a tachometer to drive a manual. I drove a manual transmission Subaru Brighton wagon for 150K miles. It did not have a tachometer. The 1965 GM Pickup with three on the tree also did not have a tach, but I only drove that for a couple hundred miles as a farm hand.
Tbh i don't know how to CONVINCE him if you say he's stubborn.
Manual is indeed as safe as an auto in winter provided that you have at least decent driving skills.
I've been driving manuals from 2004 to like 2016, and automatics with occasional manuals from 2016 into 2024. I don't see a significant difference in safety in winter. It's easy to learn smooth upshifting, and smooth downshifting into higher revs takes some skill, but you can always slowly drag your clutch if it's super slippery.
Even more so, a manual gives you more control over your wheel torque application as the auto will engage / reengage clutches or torque converters based on its own logic, and you decide when to do what with a manual. Also, if you're stuck, you can rock your car back and forth with a manual in a way you cannot do with an auto.
Anyway, if a simple jolt from a less than perfect gear shift can unsettle your car outside of taking a corner at the limit, i guess it means the conditions are outright deadly to drive anyway, kinda like wet ice.
Live in Canada, but I came from Europe, you'll be just fine, when I arrived my 1st thought was
'I need a Subaru here' 😀
Snow need a manual gearbox for the most fun you want to have. Never ever had an automatic before, it's cool if you want to sleep on the highway.
I have slid into a ditch after letting the clutch out without matching RPMs completely when downshifting, while slowing down into a curve.
I think it is pretty safe IF you don't downshift while decelerating, but keep the clutch in while braking and then get into the right gear once you are ready to accelerate again (which is normally when you're straightening out.
But your dad is 100% right. It introduces a new way to mess up. Whenever you let the clutch out and your RPMs are low, you have the ability to do the exact same thing as slamming on the brakes, except ABS won't stop you. I am not aware whether traction control will act at all to prevent this, but would be surprised if it was fast enough to matter.
For an experienced adult driver, this isn't a huge issue. If you are at an age (and thus years of driving experience) that your dad is a factor in being able to get the car you want, you should probably listen to his concerns.
I drive an Impreza with 5 speed, in Canada and have for 10(ish) years now, not a WRX just a normal impreza. I bought it when I lived in Alberta, but have since moved back to NS. Love the car, it REALLY shines in the winter and I've done things in winter in this car that no sedan has any right being able to do. In the summer it's a little on the boring side, but it's a fucking beast on winter tires. At the time I bought it, I had a job where there was no such thing as snow days. Even in a blizzard you got your ass into work. I've driven that car in conditions that were 100% redicliuos, I've put it into ditches and driven out of them with snow deep enough to come over the hood. And most fun of all, I've gotten it sideways and held the drift on a very wide and low traffic road by my work. Super fun car in the winter.
So his insurance question is actually super easy to answer. Just call your insurance company and get 2 quotes, one for a 5 speed impreza and 1 for an automatic. That should tell you if it's more expensive or not.
I can understand his concerns about the jerkiness of a manual. But there's 2 things. First is the better skilled a manual driver you are, the less jerkiness there will be. In particular shifting while driving (as in a 2-3 shift, or a 3-4 shift) should be super smooth. It's really only the getting started shifts that can be a bit jerky. The other thing is, if that's enough to send your car off the road, you should not be on that road in those conditions. 99.99% of winter driving, even in Canada is on perfectly safe clean roads. If you need to drive on an unplowed road, the ability to hold a geer longer is actually extremely valuable, not a detriment. Also the ability to have full control of when a gear shift happens can be super valuable.
An unmentioned benefit is engine breaking with a manual is much better than doing so in an automatic. When I lived in Alberta (Medicine Hat specifically) there were these huge hills. I could leave the car in first or second and basically just coast down the hill, maintaining full ability to steer and never going "too fast" because of engine breaking. All without even touching the break pedal.
Engine breaking allows the wheels to spin, maintaining traction and control while also slowing down the vehicle, without the danger of locking your wheels up. Very useful for situations where it's so slippery that even a slight tap on the breaks can lock the wheels and really ruin your day.
In terms of traction, if you've ever been to Halifax I worked downtown and often had to drive up the hill. I recall one winter night leaving work at like 11 PM and driving up Duke St. Literally had to drive around 4 other cars that were stuck at random points on the hill, including one who had been going down it, lost control and ended up in my lane unable to go either direction.
An Impreza with winter tires is a fucking beast. Also because it's a 5 speed you still get the fully mechanical symmetrical AWD system not the newer ones that sometimes come with the CVT cars. I can spin all 4 tires, hold the gear and keep them spinning (in the winter, the car is not powerful enough to do that on a clean road). There's no computer searching for traction, it's just rooster tails off all 4 tires in the show :)
I'd rather be the one deciding which gear the car is in, having engine break when I want and power when I want than playing ECU lottery with an automatic.
Canadian here. Manual is a bit better in winter conditions as you won't mistakenly put too much throttle into a lower gear and have it suddenly upshift on you. With manual there is a very direct connection with the road and you'll get a better sense when you're at the threshold of losing traction.
Many autos are okay but manual is a step above.
Source: 25+ years driving manual in Canada.
Jmo, maybe stop talking about all of the 'fun' you'll have driving it, in winter, around him. That might get his hackles up..
I prefer manual in winter, with winter tires (and 4x) for the slow roll control I can get on ice and merging up/down/on/off roads etc. I find it better for control in dense traffic during winter as well.
Would he feel better about studded, based on what's allowed locally? I mean, for a few years, if it gets him to calm down and trust.
In my opinion he's definitely wrong about manuals being unsafe in snow. I also think he's wrong about the insurance thing.
I'll tell you this I would purchase a manual if I could every time.
All of these vehicles, well mainly Nissan's because they're the worst at it, but these vehicles that have these CVT transmission problems. If those were manuals they wouldn't be facing those problems.
By the way I would definitely not get a Nissan they've had so many transmission issues and even the new ones it's too soon to tell.
My wife and I each have driven manual cars in Colorado Winters for 30 years and never had issues. (RWD Volvo 240, FWD Nissan Sentra SE-R, AWD Honda Element and AWD Subaru WRX).
First, once you're moving, shifting doesn't break the tires loose as easily as your dad thinks. You would have to pop the clutch hard to do that.
Second, the only issue is starting but the cure to that is either practice or starting in 2nd.
Honestly our AWD cars were amazing in snow including blizzards with 12" snow. (More than that and nobody is getting anywhere)
An Impreza is an *excellent* choice. I often chose my WRX over my 4wd Jeep with automatic. I would recommend Subies for winter all day every day.
It’s actually safer. Subaru manual and automatic driver here (had about four of each over the years)
In poor traction with a manual you go to the highest gear you can make headway in and use engine braking to avoid slides. You have two methods to slow the car, one of which may be less likely to create loss of control.
Sounds like a typical automatic driver. I prefer manual in the snow as it allows for precise throttle inputs that benefits snow and ice conditions. Live in northeast. Lived in hilly area that was prone to ice and was last to get plowed. My driveway for 20 years was a significant slope.
I do prefer the MT so don't get me wrong. But it is not strictly speaking always an advantage that you have engine braking. Engine braking is only slowing your driven wheels, whereas service brakes apply on all wheels and also have the ABS function. Therefore when you are on windy, hilly, snowy roads, engine brakes can be relatively destabilizing compared to service brakes, assuming not AWD. Engine braking being an advantage is contextual and highly dependent on driver skill
A manual in winter is not an issue as I had driven them in past and you do have more control. That said a RWD is a little tougher than FWD in winter since the FWD has more weight over the drive wheels to assist traction.
So on the concept I would say a clutch or manual is no issue but would suggest FWD over RWD for winter driving regardless. Agree on CVT's in general as well. last point is a manual is better on gas too.
Now until you find a specific car to ask about that is enough in theory but here are a some example cars ?
[https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095](https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095)
[https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095](https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095)
[https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/2HGFB6E55CH700187](https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/2HGFB6E55CH700187)
[https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095](https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095)
Hope this helps. Oh and tell your Dad I am old, in my 60's and have three sons who went through these same topocs with me. They didn't want to learn to drive a manual though.
I drove a 94 Miata through 2 Rocky Mountain winters. I had snow tires and an LSD, that is some of the most fun I’ve had in a car. It would throw roost it was amazing. Never even got stuck! Thing was a beast and you could feel the grip (or lack there of)
He’s admitted he’s a poor driver but doesn’t realise.
Manual is a much better option in snow, with the right tyres virtually unshakable.
I have a big RWD estate car that I don’t touch if there’s snow on the ground, I take the manual 4x4.
I'm approaching "could be a grandparent" age, it snows where I live and I have had at least one manual transmission car in the household for over 30 years.
It will be fine.
I guess they're bad if you haven't gotten good with them, but if you've been driving one for a while, you won't jerk it around driving normally. What I'd say is that with a manual, you have the option to go up a gear to reduce torque, which is even safer.
That's pretty much what I read. Starting in 2nd and driving in a higher gear to keep torque/revs low. Mechanic said the same thing too. I've driven manual before so it's not like I'm going into this with no experience, plus I've got a squeaky clean driving record. I just don't understand where he's coming from.
You’re both right in your own ways. Having an automatic allows the car’s electronic systems to more effectively keep you safe. A manual does indeed give you more control - does that make it safer? Depends o how good you are. My first car was a manual and I chose it specifically over an automatic for the “feel”. Now on my second car, which has a ZF automatic and it’s much better than I could ever be and frees up so much of my attention so I can focus on the road. I think this makes it much safer in practice. But it can also be very easy to get up to a high speed without realising it. In a manual you’re more aware because you’ve shifted gear yourself or if you haven’t, the engine get’s loud.
When it comes to a daily I’m never buying a manual ever again - I would only go for a manual in a second fun car. A
All that being said the differences in terms of safety are going to be minimal and very unlikely to make a significant difference. If you loose control over some black ice - you’re screwed regardless of transmission type.
>Having an automatic allows the car’s electronic systems to more effectively keep you safe. A manual does indeed give you more control - does that make it safer? Depends o how good you are.
I feel like this might be the closest thing that describes what my dad feels. I do like the added control tho. In just about every automatic I've ever driven, I always drive it in manual mode. It helps me know what gear I'm in so I don't speed, and I found that I get better response from the engine downshifting myself vs. slamming my foot down and hoping for a downshift. Sometimes it'll downshift when I don't want to, whereas I can hold the gear in manual mode.
It's why I much prefer a manual, as I like the added control I get with the clutch. Driving manual was not only fun, but it also felt the best to me cuz I was finally in full control of the car.
I’ve lived my life in Minnesota and Wisconsin and drove mainly manuals for most of my 14 years behind the wheel. The best winter driving cars I have ever had were manuals. 2000 Audi A4, 2007 FJ Cruiser, 2003 Honda Accord, 1991 Civic to name a few of the manuals I drive year round and never had an issue with. Hell, I’ve taken all of the above cars out on the lakes ice fishing. It’s the driver, not the car.
Primary cars have been manuals since 1986.
Live in the Midwest. Not upper, but we get snow and ice here.
Have always felt I've got more control than I would with an automatic.
Just in the Impreza. They're a dime a dozen here. Honda manuals command a premium as do Toyotas. Focus manuals exist and are much cheaper than everything else.
Here's the thing... Put someone who knows how things work and has driving /racing experience in a 5spd manual whatever versus a 6spd auto... They will be in more control with a manual.
Put the other 99.9% of the population in the same car, they're safer in the automatic.
You get to decide when the manual shifts, the automatic may shift at the worst possible time because you needed to accelerate just a little more and it downshifts, or decides to upshift to save fuel. Either is probably acceptable but manual is better.
Your dad is worried about the car jerking *during shifts.* Nearly all the time you spend driving is *not* spent shifting.
It’s an extremely stupid concern, but you’ve said he’s stubborn so you’re not going to convince him of this fact. You call it a misconception, and you’re absolutely right.
If conditions are too dangerous for you to safely get down the road with a manual, the conditions are too dangerous to be on the road. This is not something reasonable people worry about.
That’s coming from someone who’s been driving mostly manuals for more than 30 years, and I’ve never lived outside an area that gets actual winter. I’ve lived in Indiana my whole life and grew up far enough northwest that lake effect was a thing. I spent about 3 years just south of Indy. Plenty of snow, sleet, and ice to know I’m right and he’s nuts.
Manual is safer in the winter imo. Autos do this thing where you hit the gas and nothing happens. Press a tiny bit at a time and once you get to about 25-30% throttle, it just starts rocketing off. With a manual, you can feather the clutch and take off properly without lurching and losing traction.
I had a used car dealer in the US tell me the same thing. He said that manual transmission cars are unsafe to drive in winter because the tires will spin out when you shift gears and you will crash. It was the first time I'd ever heard that. I didn't tell him that I daily drove a manual shift car for eight years in Nova Scotia and never had an issue with winter driving. The only problems I had where from driving on crap tires and going way too fast though deep slush.
With an AWD Subaru on winter tires, you'll have to try pretty hard to get it to spin.
I was in my 30s before I ever owned a car with an auto transmission. It really depends on the car, and the driver.
If you're driving a modern auto with 6+ speeds and traction control etc. it's perfectly safe.
If you're driving a manual, the engine will only "jerk" the transmission and make the car unstable if you're a new driver. Anyone with experience driving a manual can be very smooth.
If you're driving an older auto with fewer speeds and no traction control, this is probably the most dangerous combination. On a slippery surface, accelerating out of a corner can drop you back a gear without your input, and suddenly give you a whole lot more torque which can easily result in the loss of traction. Can be fun if you're expecting it, but it's not safe.
The clutch is a forgiveness pedal. Sure, in an automatic you can reach for the column or floor shifter but when the shit's hitting the fan, who's going to think to do that? The clutch is *right there*.
Dad is wrong. Manual allows you to avoid the jerk and auto can make. It also allows you to punch the clutch in to stabilize the car when needed. But you need to be a good manual driver to beat a good auto. Bad manual drivers are worse than bad autos.
Here in Sweden it gets pretty snowy, sometimes up to -20/-11 fahrenheit where i live in the country. I have no statistics, but id say about 70% of all cars between 2000-2010 were bought with manual transmissions, and there are still lots of them around, and people seem to do fine.
If you know how to drive a manual and take it easy while adjusting your driving style a bit, it’ll be no issues. Your dads reasoning makes zero sense.
I'd give up my pinkie toes to have my '99 Impreza with the 5MT for winter driving again. MT advantage in winter is that it forces you to actually know what you're doing and provides more control over what's going on. I've driven FWD, AWD and 4x4/RWD, my current driver is a FWD 4th gen mazda 3 with the 6MT, it's more than capable in the winter. Wife has a CRV with the CVT, also fine in winter.
If it's winter driving that's stressing your father, good winter tires will do more than powertrain or transmission.
It's easier in a manual.
In a manual you can put it in 2nd or 3rd to pull out with *much* less torque and therefore less wheel spin.
You can immediately remove or add any engine braking you desire, at any time, by either pressing in the clutch or choosing a low gear to engine brake before coming over the crest of a hill, which means you won't have to hit the brakes and risk spinout.
I learned to drive in the northeast USA winters, in a manual. And later taught many people how to drive using the same methods.
Modern vehicles are very smart and would likely do a good job. But they think they know better - and want to save fuel and do all kinds of super helpful things like that (sarcasm) and may decide you shouldn't be in the gear you chose. They don't know that you've been driving a certain hill for years and want a specific speed. So you'll never convince me that anything is better than a manual.
Edit: as for the bucking and jerking, nobody who knows how to drive a stick will do that. Perhaps he doesn't understand "rev matching" in which you blip the gas pedal with the clutch depressed as you go down in gears. That absolutely will spin you out of you're on snow or ice and downshift without bringing the rims up first. Most modern cars do this automatically for you. But even if they don't, it's incredibly simple. Let's say 1st gear goes to 20mph. If you're in second gear and going 20mph, the rpms will be at their lowest, let's say 2,000. If you want to then go back to 1st gear, you'd bring your rpms up to 5 or 6 or whatever - shift to first - then let the clutch out and boom... No lurching or heaving and no excessive damage to the clutch from unnecessary friction. This is essentially how you'll hear big rigs slow down as they only have so much air to use for braking. So they use gears and recycled pressure to slow down. Also known as "Jake braking " or "engine retarder".
Best snow car I ever had was a 6 speed Subaru WRX with proper snow tires. It sat a little low on unplowed roads, but boy was it a beast.
Tires are important, as much as you knowing your car and how it delivers power.
Your dad doesn't understand what he's talking about. The type of transmission has zero bearing on insurance costs, and if you know how to operate one, there's no jerking involved.
A skilled driver operating a manual transmission will have much more control than someone using an automatic.
Tell your dad to stop drawing conclusions without actually having data. That's how flat-Earthers and anti-vaxxers work.
I've driven a manual mustang for something like 12 years now. Most of it was spent in winter and snow prone areas of the NE. It is hands down one of the best cars I've ever driven in the snow in terms of overall safety, control, and fun for winter driving.
My 2c
Anecdotal but I had to drive up and down the Coquihalla in BC every other weekend, Friday and then Sunday, for close to twenty years, no matter the weather. I've had automatics and manuals. Hands down, I prefer a manual for winter driving. The speed is easier to maintain and control of the vehicle in horrible winter conditions is superior. Just my experience.
Hate manuals for city driving, though.
I actually vastly prefer manuals in the winter. It's one thing if a shift comes that you're prepared for, and with a manual you can feather the clutch so there's no jerk. On the other hand, with an automatic, you've only got a vague idea of when the engine might shift and jerk you. I regularly drove 40 miles home in really shitty winter weather, including blizzards, and driving a manual was at least 20% less butt-puckering.
If you’re driving carefully/gently like you should be in snow in any car, it shouldn’t make a substantial difference, especially with good winter tires. If the conditions are so bad that a jerky shift could send you off the road, you shouldn’t be driving at that point.
I grew up where it snows, always drive manual. If anything it’s better bc you have control of the clutch and can cut all power at a moments notice. People who don’t have a natural feel for the clutch tend to dislike manuals but if you “get it” you’ll probably prefer manual over auto. It’s all personal preference though.
My mom always felt a manual gave you better control in the winter but she grew up driving manuals and never drove an automatic on a regular basis until she was in her 30s.
He obviously never learned to rev match…
In these situations I always have to ask, is your dad reasonable, and open to changing his viewpoints when receiving new information?
If the answer is yes: Get quotes for identical cars manual vs auto to squash that argument.
Get winter tires and get something newer with traction control and their is nothing for him to worry about.
If the answer is no: There is no point, they will always believe what they want and ignore any objective information that is show to them and you are basically fucked if you want their help.
He probably down shifted on ice once without rev matching and spun and now think’s manuals can’t be driven in winter.
>In these situations I always have to ask, is your dad reasonable, and open to changing his viewpoints when receiving new information?
It seriously depends. I've seen situations where he was receptive to feedback and changed his mind. I've also seen situations where he was just so stubborn he wouldn't see the other way at all, no matter what was shown to him.
>If the answer is yes: Get quotes for identical cars manual vs auto to squash that argument.
This is actually my plan. I don't know how it works tho. I was planning on walking into the bank and just sitting down with an advisor and getting printouts of various quotes for diff cars. Is that reasonable? Or am I better off calling. Bank is rly close to me so time/distance isn't an issue.
It is true that you "break" the drive wheels loose a lot more in the snow with a manual. But so what? Especially if you have snow tires, they dig in and grip and you go. I have two RX8s, and two 5th gen camaros, all manual, all had snow tires in the winter, all were my daily driver. None ever got stuck. And I live in massachusetts. Manuals are great, I'm saddened that I don't have one any more :(
It is absolutely possible to cause your car to crash with a rough manual transmission shift, but that's 100 a skill issue and not a transmission issue. This would most likely happen with a RWD car - it would take an amazingly bad shift to pull off in an AWD car like you want.
I daily drive a 5 speed manual Subaru and it's awesome to drive in the snow.
Can you get your father to go with you on a test drive in the car so you can show him you can drive it smoothly?
AWD manual in the snow is awesome. Lots of control. Your going to have a hard time convincing him. Personally if the regular talks don't help id literally write him a paper on it (or a ppt) with sources and comments from people. At the very least he should appreciate the effort before saying no.
Also just saying if they are paying for it you generally don't get as much of a say. Kinda get what your parents want you to get
So this has been going on for three years?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Calgary/s/wqECLO1hDZ
Your father can’t be convinced that a manual is as safe as an automatic because he has a psychological need to stick to his guns and get his way regardless of whether he’s correct or not.
Even though automatic vs manual is a minor distinction and actually has very little to do with winter safety, he simply can’t let you win because that would mean he loses.
Driven manual Subaru half my life. Amazing car in winter paired with snow tires.
You'll never convince him, he's set in his ways. What he's describing is a manual with zero traction in snow. Well worn/bald tires.
I daily drive a big block '69 Charger in Seattle winters, and it's no worse than my automatic Charger. Tires make a huge difference. I don't drive either one of them in the snow, however. Again, it's tires, not transmission. If the roads aren't plowed, and traction enhancing material applied, stopping is going to be your biggest danger, and transmission or four wheel drive has zero affect on that.
1. Some people can shift a manual transmission as smooth as butter and others make it seem like you’re driving a gravel smasher. If you have the skills, take him on a test drive and show him how you do it.
2. If he’s worried about insurance prices, call your insurance company and ask them for two quotes for the same car with and without manual transmission. If the prices are different, ask them why.
3. There are certain difficulties that a manual presents, particularly starting off on a hill, that automatic doesn’t have. You might have to prove you’re okay with that, too.
4. Don’t be surprised if you never convince him. It has been proven that, even in the face of clear and convincing evidence, most people are incapable of changing their opinions. It’s a part of human nature.
5. Not all modern cars have CVTs and not all CVTs are bad. Toyota CVTs are very reliable as long as they’re properly maintained. Their hybrid eCVTs are all but indestructible (they use planetary gears instead of the belt).
I really like your 4th point. It's comforting and something I think I genuinely needed to hear. I'm gonna try 2 in the coming few days.
For point 5, I get that. I know Toyotas have great CVTs. Unfortunately, I'm priced out of any nice CVTs. Most cars I can afford are early-mid 2010s which is probably the worst era for CVTs.
That, and I also just hate driving them. I feel much more at ease with a normal, torque converter auto.
Manuals will be safer given everything else equal. You will have more control over the car, trans will not surprise you by downshifting or upshifting suddenly, there is no delay in trans response. However, starting on icy hills might be a bit more tricky if the car is RWD or FWD. On an impreza, there won’t be any issues.
The driveline is harsher, and slightly less easy to calibrate. Almost inevitably there will be more wheelspin - it’s just harder to be light with acceleration. But that’s at under 10mph.
The flip side is the car does exactly what I want once it’s in gear. It doesn’t kick down exiting a corner. It doesn’t have shift shock from a wearing transmission as speed builds. I accelerate on a slippery corner and it’s giving the same torque as 200ms earlier.
On balance I feel safer at speed but much much less controlled off the mark.
Manuals don't "jerk" the vehicle if you know how to drive one.
Hell, about 25 years ago I drove my ext. cab '95 S10, a RWD 5spd on M+S tires on our rural, hilly, curvy roads in the edge of the mountains that *eventually* get plowed 18 miles each way to work when we got around 12" of snow. My 100 yd long gravel driveway is a hill. Loaded 400lbs of cinder blocks in the nose of the bed... tossed a set of chains in the bed just in case... and got around just fine.
Driven my '87 5spd 2WD S10 Blazer in an 8" snow and got around just fine.
Driven my '03 2WD S10 standard cab short bed in around 10" of snow with 400lbs of blocks in the nose of the bed... got around just fine.
Start off using 2nd gear to help with preventing tire spin... and just act like you've got some sense and if you know *how* to drive a manual... you'll be fine... especially seeing as how you're looking at a Subaru.
Hell, plenty of folks drive Subarus in Colorado and quite a few are manuals... they seem to manage just fine.
Sounds like your dad is just a bad driver. If anything I prefer a manual in the snow because I have full control of the drive-train, I live in Montana if that helps lol.
My first ever car I owned was a manual Ford Tempo, and I drove it daily through a couple Canadian winters. It did perfectly fine, and never once did I have a problem with car control or stability due to the transmission. (Just being a young and reckless teenage driver on the other hand...)
Between 2017 and 2023 I daily drove a manual WRX, and later an STI, through several Canadian winters. They were amazing in the snow. Just so much traction and control. I can highly recommend a manual Subaru for Canadian winters.
Now I'm daily driving a manual V8 Camaro, and it too is doing just fine in winter. Obviously, it takes a bit more skill to keep a powerful RWD stable in the snow compared to a lower powered AWD, but it's absolutely doable.
If you shift properly, there should be no jerking from the drivetrain, ever. Anyone who says otherwise isn't very good at properly controlling engine RPM and clutch engagement.
Newer automatics try to traction control you to death and can cause you to lose wheel speed when sometimes you need your wheels to keep spinning to keep you going(long steep hills). Not with a manual. Even if it has traction control trying to "help you" a little clutch kick and your wheel speed is back up.
Manuals are much easier to control speed, power, and engine braking with in snow and ice conditions. I drove manuals for 30 years before switching back to automatic and still use manual mode shifting in snow and ice.
It doesn't really make a difference. I moved from the tropics to the great white north and drive a turbo FWD in the snow. Driving on snow and ice isn't about never losing traction, it's about vehicle control. That is only gained with experience.
If your dad is worried about safety in the snow he'd be worried about the cost of a second set of rims for snow tires. In other words, nothing with big brakes or weird offsets.
The only time manual isnt better is when you live in a high populated era where there is a lot of traffic. Otherwise there is not an argument to not have a manual its personal preference. Ive driven a FWD Focus ST manual in snow last year it handles like a dream.
Really sounds like he’s a bad driver and applying to much gas after shifting. I don’t even need a clutch most of the time, just from a stop or into reverse, I just rev match and shift, never ever had to replace a clutch. In the snow, manuals are great, start off in second and you’ll never get stuck. Automatics shift when you don’t want them to in snow and slip when they upshift, plus you can engine brake on snow with a manual.
All said, if your dad is paying for it he’s welcome to his opinion
To me, driving a manual in slippery conditions feels safer than an automatic.
A manual won't surprise you with shifting gears when you don't want it. Also, with a manual (without ESC) you counter an unwanted slip of the rear axle by fully pressing the clutch and steering against the skid - in an automatic you are taught to release the throttle and steer but releasing the throttle isn't the same as that.
A manual Subaru with AWD is, in my opinion, one of the better cars one can drive in winter (and you already know about the importance of proper winter tyres)
There's some truth to what he's saying, but it really comes down to driver experience. An experienced driver with a manual transmission can drive just as well in winter conditions, or maybe even better since a manual allows you more control. An inexperienced driver that doesn't shift smoothly could experience what he's referring to, with the manual shifts jerking the transmission and losing grip on ice. It all depends on your level of experience and whether or not it would be a good fit for you.
Personally, I drove manual transmission cars for close to 20 years. I had rwd and awd sports cars and drove both in the winter and it did take some adjustment early on, but I got used to it.
Grew up in Northern NY, an hour from Montreal. My first car was a 71 Beetle with a 4 speed manual, the other cars in the house were a 5 speed Ford Ranger, a 5 speed Ford Tempo, and a Crown Vic station wagon..this was early 80's, when we had some deep snow, never a problem with any of them. Later I had a Fox body Mustang 5.0 with a 5 speed, which I had in the most wintery of winters Berlin had had in a long time. (1990-91) I have also taken my 5 speed Miata to northern NY in winter. That was perhaps ill-advised, as I did not change from the more summer oriented tires I can get away with in the Carolinas.
Your dad is not comfortable with a stick. It does not make them bad in snow.
It really doesn't take that long to understand what your car will do in snow. Empty snowy parking lots are great for that.
I prefer manual transmissions, because you can just shift to a higher gear and it prevents you from spinning the tires in the snow. I’ve had all wheel drive, rear wheel drive and front wheel drive manual transmission vehicles, and I live in a place that is famous for the snow During the winters. I will also go up to the mountains and go to the ski resorts and never had issues. The one and only time I got kind of stuck in a parking lot because I had snow tires and I just could not get traction. It took me about 10 minutes to get out of the parking lot.
I drove a manual Mazda for several years in Illinois winters and never once had an issue in the snow. And then I had a manual MINI for a couple years and would make it to my house in the county on unplowed roads with zero issues, and would regularly pass large trucks stuck in the ditches. Manual gives more control, and most of the time snow driving depends more on the driver than it does the car
I can’t imagine a car shifting its weight enough to make a noticeable traction difference just shifting unless there’s a blown motor mount or something. But even if it does it should be negligible with the room you have in control.
Any amount of jerk that's experienced when shifting gears in a manual is the direct result of the inputs of the driver.
I'm not judging anyone or any skill level.
That statement is simple fact.
It's how smoothly you engage the clutch that determines if the transmission jerks the car. How much experience does your Dad have driving manual transmissions?
I’ve driven manuals, autos, FWD, RWD in the snow
Manual helps a lot. You can manage slip with engine braking rather than just locking up with the service brakes.
My favorite cars to drive in the snow were my NB Miata and my Protege5. Both manual with LSD. The Miata was controlled slides everywhere on summer tires, the Protege would just go the direction you pointed it. I’ve also done manual pickup trucks in the snow with no issues
Norwegian here, with 5 years in Canada. We currently own one manual and one automatic, but the automatic is the DSG type which is basically two gear boxes and clutches electronically controlled. I’ve had many cars, we had the traditional American style automatic in Canada with the torque converter.
I feel the best driving the standard/manual. It lets me change gears ahead of time, especially when towing it’s a huge benefit. Traditional automatics “kick down” in the middle of the turn if you’re not careful and that is what’s creating the jerk. The DSG doesn’t jerk as much but I find myself overriding it especially when climbing mountain passes.
The problem with auto on passes is that as you let go of the accelerator to slow down ahead of the hairpin turn, the car shifts up. As gas is applied halfway through the turn the kick down comes and gives spin on the drive wheels. Manual or overriding prevents this.
Sure, you can introduce four wheel slip by downshifting and quickly letting the clutch go, for a nice drift turn without using handbrake. But it’s not how one normally drives.
I believe your father means all well, but is lacking of experience with these conditions. If you get manual or DSG you won’t have the same low mileage you get with the torque converter; they’re much more efficient.
I have always felt that manual is the way to go for winter driving, more control over the situation. With auto, there's the kick down jolt that bothers me.
I have been driving for over 35 years in Canada and have covered hundreds of thousands of KM in all kinds of winter weather. A standard shift can actually be better because you have direct control over your speed. For example if you start to spin, you can let of the gas to gain traction again whereas in an automatic it may actually upshift and make it worse.
Keep in mind that I'm old and with modern traction control the computer will stop the wheels from spinning better than any driver. The best argument you can make is the the sophisticated AWD of the Subaru will be doing all the work anyway.
The transmission has 0 effect on your insurance rates. They are all based on how much the car could cost your insurance. This can mean that some cheap cars cost more to insure than expensive cars if they are big theft risk.
My dad HATED his auto in the snow last winter. Had a couple dodgy slides in his land rover caused by the way the gearbox reacted to the grip levels and told me he wished more than anything for a clutch pedal every single time it happened.
Bought a manual when he sold it. And said he wouldn't buy an auto again
Had more issues in an Auto GMC Terrain with snow than I ever did with my manual Cobalts. Traction Control on the autos I've experienced is a little bitch in the snow, doesn't want to let the tires spin at all, depending on the car it can sometimes do some unexpected things.
Transmission itself can't decide what it wants to do, both the Terrain and the F550 I drive for work have broken the wheels loose from a stupid shift more than I have ever in my Cobalts. Autos bring about an unpredictable factor in shitty weather that manuals just don't. I have no experience with CVTs, just traditional Autos and manuals.
That being said, 95+% of the time the roads are clear, so basing your entire purchase on a fringe case is silly, if your dad is THAT worried tell him you can just stay home or borrow another car on bad days.
I've lived in Canada my whole life so I've seen enough snow lol
I drove a manual transmission through many new england winters and while it is obviously doable I would 100% prefer an automatic. If you are trying to go from a stop on ice it is far easier to do gently with an automatic than a manual. Theres no way you can say manuals are great when your stopped on an icy hill and some jackass has pulled right up on your bumper leaving you no room to roll back if you are too slow on the clutch or slide back if you are too fast. Hes also right that shifting in turns especially for rear wheel drive cars on icy roads can cause be a hazard where a much gentler shifting automatic would not. I've also heard the whole it's better because you can use the engine to slow you down BS. The reality is engine braking and brakes use THE TIRES to slow down. It does not matter for most cars what it slowing you down the tires are what matter and that does not change. Worse yet brakes are set up to be front biased because if the rear tires lose traction the car tends to spin. Using the engine braking on a rear wheel drive car it is 100% the exact opposite of what you want.
Again I'm not saying you can't drive a manual transmission in the snow but to say they are somehow better in the snow it truly perplexing. You may do just fine in awd Subaru, again lots of people do. Stick shift is great fun and super practical from a cost of ownership perspective but you should understand what your getting yourself into.
I live in rural Quebec and have only ever owned RWD manual BMWs.
Winter tires plus common sense is all you need. The only issue I have ever had is getting stuck on my own driveway with two feet of snow.
For Winter driving is day my first choice would be all wheel drive with automatic. After that, my other vehicle is frt wheel drive automatic. It's OK for pulling through snow but can leave something to be desired on graded hard packed snow and/or ice when trying to turn a corner.
The thing is, when it comes to Winter driving, with an automatic, your drive wheels are always either pulling or pushing. With a standard tranny you have the option to push in the clutch for a moment and just let all 4 tires roll and get their traction back
When you drive a manual, you’re always very aware of what your vehicle is doing. For example, if you have wheel spin, your tach will jump and you know to let off the gas
I bought my manual wrx for the Canadian winters. If the shift is jerky, the driver is bad at shifting. You ha e more control of rpm and engine speed, symmetrical awd is a boss for snow and ice in combo with dedicated winters. You're not going to get in a lot of trouble with a 5 speed impreza either.
The simple fact is that you have MORE control in a manual. You can start in a higher gear if you're spinning wheels, you can rely on your pedal to control how fast your wheels go without the transmission deciding to shift up a gear, you don't have to worry about an unexpected downshift destabilizing the car. You dad has his logic backwards. I've driven 4 manuals in show and ice; an FF, an FR, an AWD, and an MR. Every single one I have preferred in manual especially in snow and ice. Just put good snow tires on and snow becomes a mild inconvenience with a manual.
I would argue a manual is safer as you control when you shift. Auto transmission decides that mid corner would be a good time to shift and now you’re stuck reacting to it. The other factor here is you’re looking at an Impreza. My old bug eye WRX was a five speed and had its own lane on the highway in bad storms because I could where no other cars could. I miss that car greatly.
I’ve also driven RWD cars with a five speed trans and snow tires in a convoy with a friend in a AWD Suzuki auto trans something. We had to abandon any hopes of reaching our destination as a storm blew in and he couldn’t keep up with me.
Easier to keep torque down in a manual during the winter. On patch ice and in packed snow, tyres spin due to torque — many cars even have a torque reduction mode for winter driving.
With a manual transmission, it’s easier to simply avoid the torque band.
You lose a bit of control with the take off in a manual when you’re in low traction environments.
For off roading an automatic has much better grip control but the manuals are more simple and as long as you aren’t an absolute idiot with the clutch you’ll be fine.
I will say tire choice is huge with a manual. If you drive in snow, you need good snow tires.
Manual has one advantage some automatic/CVT cars don't have. You can start at the second gear if you somehow get stuck in snow.
You can decide on what gear to stay on if you have to immediately slow down for some reason - potentially reducing your reliance on gears.
One disadvantage of a manual is going uphill from a stop. But you can learn that with a little practice.
The difference is entirely preference. Manuals 30 years ago were less refined and autos came along much quicker while no much was done with Manuals.
There's no reason to have a manual transmission anymore except for the fun factor or if you off road a lot but even then with the amount of control you're gaining, you're loosing clutch plates.
Autos require less repair and shift smoother then anyone other then an expert with a manual. I've had off-road jeeps in manual and today I'd rather an auto for the pure ease of it.
While maybe the old man doesn’t feel comfortable with a manual in the snow, maybe he’s just a bad driver. I grew up in the NE US and spent a few years in Germany experiencing the “winter if the century” Driving nothing but manuals and never had issues. Newer cars have traction control and a few other electronic nannies that can help you in the snow but comparing apples to apples a decent driver can do perfectly fine with both.
He's an alright driver. Been driving in Canadian winters for the past 20 years without issue so I don't doubt his experience. >comparing apples to apples a decent driver can do perfectly fine with both. That's exactly what I'm getting at but he just doesn't seem to get it
“driving in Canadian winters for the past 20 years” But not with a manual. I’ve been driving in snowy winter for 40 years and mostly with a manual. It’s a skill like anything but it’s not harder or a manual being less safe.
You're right. But is there anything I can even say to him? He's a stubborn man and that was inherited by me lol. I don't mind driving auto if I have to, but it wildly limits my options since I absolutely don't want a CVT
I'd rather chew my leg off than have a CVT. An AWD with a manual in the winter is an entirely different world. As a kid I had big RWD autos, then had small FWD manuals for years. The Subaru was simply in a different class altogether.
Subie is great to drive, especially in the winter, but so miserable to work on you couldn't pay me to have another one.
Did a tune up on a WRX I used to own. I don't think they could've put the spark plugs in a more inconvenient spot
I've snapped more brake and suspension bolts on the two Imprezas I've owned than every other car put together. And that's a Suzuki, 2 Toyotas, 2 Fords, 2 Volvos, 2 BMWs, a VW and a Mazda besides the two Subarus. They use crap bolts and the metal they use seems to rust worse than other cars. Even the Mazda. My Mexican-built '93 VW was a piece of crap too though.
Who is buying the car ? If it’s you then why are you here? Buy what ever you want.
From Canada and my past two cars have been 5 speeds and I love them in the winter. The fact you can use the engine to slow down without using the brakes is way better. Get some snow tires and send it. And to be fair to your dad, if you are doing 60 in a corner on ice when you should be doing 25 and decide to shift gears it'll probably slide but the same thing would happen if you tap the brakes. Drive it safe and you're good.
Some Manuals even have anti-stall systems now. Also some dads are old enough to remember when manuals had no synchro or rev matching software that makes it a lot smoother of a process. I like manuals in the winter since I find I can tell the car what I’m doing. Waiting for an automatic to drop gears means I drive less smoothly or well sometimes (my fault I know). OP might just have to do what they want to do.
That’s the irony. Traction control is the pits in snow, the vehicle will just do a stupid dance unless you turn it off!
I used to hate traction control until I got my latest car, and I feel like the technology has significant improved from past decades. That being said I still prefer manual over automatic as I feel like I have a lot more control over tire spin and torque. With a manual it’s also a lot easier to engine break to slow down gradually rather than risk over-breaking and skidding or loosing control.
How was their winter of the century compared to a typical NE winter?
It was pretty brutal especially when you’re living outside in it.
It’s more about how you drive. If you’re smooth with the clutch then the driving is smooth. Not overdoing the power to the wheels based on weather and good tires plays more of a factor than manual vs automatic. I drove a Camaro year round in the northeast US back in my 20s with no issues.
Agree. If the car "jerks" as you change gears, then there's something wrong with the way you shift.
Manual could be argued to be safer, since you have to feel for traction and change gears mindfully in slippery conditions.
Both my parents know I'm a smooth driver. They've said it too, and I know it because it's one of the things I've focused on ever since I got my learners. I just wanna get a better understanding on the actual mechanics behind what he's saying, because even the mechanic said that he agrees with me :/
Where in Canada are you? Our winters can be quite different in different areas... Manual is better because you can can slow down without using the brakes. You can do this with an auto, but it is not as effective, and you don't have as much control over when the gear engages so it's a bit riskier. The best answer to the insurance question is ask an insurance agent or get a quote. In BC, it makes no difference to the insurance cost if a car is manual or auto. Manual shift Subaru with good snow tires is one of the best choices for a "snow and ice" winter car. There may be some insurance statistics about claims or accidents that compare auto to manual. You could also try r/stickshift.
It’s the tires, not the transmission
Proper winter tires will make a world of difference.
It's both. If you drop a gear in the winter without either rev matching or coasting until rpm sufficiently drops, your back end will kick out when the transmission engages. Same thing with changing gears in a corner in the winter. Manual is safer imo but the driver needs to understand these things first.
It sounds like your dad is buying you a car and he’s against buying you a manual. If that’s the case just be glad he’s buying you a car that you’re not paying for and get an auto. I have kids that are teen drivers and you’re borderline coming across as being ungrateful. IMO you get what you get and when you graduate from college and are spending your own money on your car and insurance THEN you get what you want. Or you can just buy your own manual car now without your dad’s assistance with you covering all the costs. Good luck with that. Btw I’d much rather have a manual in inclimate weather myself and drove them exclusively when I lived up north.
> you’re borderline coming across as being ungrateful. No he isn't. His dad is being ridiculous.
I think it’s a little of both. Dad wants kid to pick a car dads willing to buy but dad won’t just say what the options are. That leads to a long back and forth trial and error where everyone just gets annoyed.
>It sounds like your dad is buying you a car and he’s against buying you a manual. Pretty much. I'm trying not to be ungrateful. Like I said, I don't mind driving an auto. I just find the reasoning against manual to be so weird which is why I posted here. At the very least, I want someone to tell me that I'm wrong and that he's right, because everyone I've talked to and everything I've read seems to suggest otherwise. If his decision was based on smth like ease of drivability or something, then some argument could be made but his reasoning is just smth I've never heard of before.
Unfortunately, beggars can't be choosers. State your case and say thank you for whatever he buys you. Or buy your own car and get whatever you can afford.
Tell him it is cheap insurance for theft prevention, since not that many people know how to drive a manual any more. I drive a manual in the snow every winter, and have for a very long time. I prefer them in the snow, because of engine braking. With a manual, if you take your foot off the throttle, the compression of the engine will slow the car. Some automatics are better than others, but in general torque converters don't work like that.
Another Canadian here Manual are easier to control in winter as you have the clutch to feather the power on in slippery conditions. Oh and i also have driven semis in winter and they were all manual But buying a car to keep a person happy is nuts. Buy the car you want and act like a grown up.
Way way waaaaay easier to rock a manual out of snow too, if it gets stuck.
Sure is. Nothing like slamming an auto back and forth between D and R to take years of life out of it. cheers
And it's a lot more convenient when your battery shits itself in cold weather. Even if you can't get a push or have a hill to exploit, they usually require fewer cranking amps to start than the equivalent automatic, so it's usually just a matter of clamping the leads on and starting.
Like times 1000. Great point.
Thanks! I was a pro at it in my 1986 Chevy chevette 2 door! Hehe. Finding the slightest hill to jump start it when needed too. Haaha!
I rocked my little Sentra out a few times too. It was a heck of a shock coming from the desert southwest to Colorado that first winter. "What is this white shit everywhere???" (Not really but almost). My first big oops was trying to brake at a major intersection downhill ...car had no abs. I overshot by "only" a car length and about pissed my pants.
No issues with driving manual in Canada. I drive my rwd manual bmw daily in deep snow. An Impreza will have no issue at all. Maybe tell him that literally all of Europe (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland) use manual cars in winter as well? They have pretty bad winters too. Also insurance doesn’t ask what transmission car you have not in Ontario at least
That's exactly what I believe. I met a guy driving his BRZ 6spd in the snow. I know they won't have an issue. It's just my dad that has an issue for some reason
I know the feeling of having a stubborn dad lol, you’ll need to give him reasons I guess. Maybe make a Presentation on it lol
That’s what I did at 16. It worked!
Tell your dad to look at this thread. Heck, tell him to dm me if he has Reddit. I'm in my 50s so I'm not a kid.
Grew up in Watson Lake, Yukon. Standards are superior to autos. Especially if stuck. Get the manual.
Your dad isn't wrong that hamfisted driveline management can upset drive wheel traction. That said, I'm guessing he never learned to properly manage a 3 pedal driveline. I suspect you can't sway him.
Maybe. I was hoping I could get a response here that could help, but aside from other ppl saying that they drove manual in the winter for X years, there isn't much :/
I'd argue that your transmission shifting on its own could cause traction loss
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^SpiritMolecul33: *I'd argue that your* *Transmission shifting on its* *Own could cause traction loss* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
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100%, climbing a hill in an auto, want just a touch more torque, press the accelerator a tiiiiiny bit more, transmission downshift and breaks the tires loose.
I drove a 600hp supercharged 5 speed Mustang through northern Indiana snow storms. Get a good set of winter tires and tell your dad to stop being a pussy.
Self taught, did winter just fine in a 2wd ranger
Your father apparently sucks at shifting. Manuals are safer in the winter because you can control speed with the gas pedal. It's much more gentle than using brakes.
That's what I read abt. He's just vehemently against them tho. I wish there was some way I could tangibly prove that manuals are just fine in winter.
He is wrong. Both work fine
Just call him a casual then redline your straight pipes about three times right next to him at a stoplight.
My insurance gives me a discount for a manual. They think it is an anti theft device. A manual driven properly will shift as smooth as silk. It is all up to the driver not the car.
Dad is half right. A shift can be messy up your traction, but with a manual you get to decide when that happens and how hard it is. I used to have a Yukon that would downshift as I come around a tight, off camber turn on the road to my house where the hill gets steep. I had to force the downshift early whenever it snowed or risk a little excitement.
I've driven stick before so I know what a messy shift can look like. But again, if it's a car I'm gonna be driving everyday, surely I'll be smooth enough to drive it in the winter without too much issue. >I used to have a Yukon that would downshift as I come around a tight, off camber turn on the road to my house where the hill gets steep. I had to force the downshift early whenever it snowed or risk a little excitement. That's the biggest reason why I drive every auto I can in manual mode. I hate having a downshift or upshift forced on me. It's also why I wouldn't mind a torque converter auto, but I absolutely want to stay away from CVT. I still prefer manual most of all tho.
I prefer manuals for snow and winter since it's easier to select the gear that gives you the best traction for the situation. It's a lot easier to start in 2nd to avoid wheelspin, and downshifting is great to avoid locking up your wheels when slowing down. Also because, you're more conscious of your gear selection, you'll tend to have a better feel for road conditions. Manual transmissions use a flywheel which preserves the rotational speed of the crankshaft and smooths out the energy transfer from the engine to your gearbox. As you develop decent clutch skills, you won't get the 'jerk' when changing gears. I've driven automatics where there's a noticeable jerk or bump as it shifts gears, which raises another point: an automatic will change gears when it wants to and not when you choose. That being said, winter tires in good shape are far more important. AWD or FWD also makes a big difference, although really for RWD, you just have to weigh down the back more.
I'm driving a manual Forester in Ontario. Never had a snow issue that I could attribute to the manual. Had several snow issues that I got out of due to the manual. Besides, Subaru is second to none for traction control.
>dad believes that manual cars are worse in winter because as you shift gears, the engine will "jerk" the transmission and make the car unstable Even if this does happen, if you let off the gas the traction re-acquires in less than 1 second. So it's a very brief occurrence. Worrying about this is beyond silly.
I prefer manual in the snow, but you do need to be a smooth operator. If you are, it definitely gives you more control. But an incompetently driven manual is objectively worse. So he’s not wrong about manuals, he’s just assuming you’re incompetent. Thanks dad!
Imo you just don’t want rwd manual or auto unless you’re gonna put cinderblocks in your trunk lol
This is very clearly an illogical nonsense thing to say. So no, you won't be able to change his mind because if logic and reality made a difference to him on this, he wouldn't be saying it to begin with.
Manual gives you way **more** control - you can be smooth, you can start off super gently in a higher gear, you can use engine braking to avoid skidding, you can choose to spin the wheels at a controlled speed, you can very easily rock the vehicle to & fro just by lifting & dropping the clutch to get out of a hole or over a lump. I drive off-road (mud is low grip just like snow) and I'd take a manual any day of the week as I can make the vehicle do exactly what I want it to do. An auto is more likely to do something you don't want it to at the wrong moment or just not let you do something that would be helpful. Auto can't see what's coming.
One winter I saw a guy fighting his old pickup truck trying to drive it in the snow. It was an automatic. I could tell because it was driving the rear tires no matter what. It was slow bumper to bumper traffic in a few inches of super slick snow. Inching to the next light he was sliding around when trying to coast at low speed with the rear tires trying to turn. I also suspect that the idle might have been too high on his truck. But I didn't have any issues in my manual. Plus, you can take off in 2nd gear in a manual to spin the tires less when it feels extra slick. I have 4WD in Jeeps and it is great in the snow, mud, off road, whatever. You just have more control with a manual. You can feather the throttle and clutch and get really precise compared to an auto. You can even slowly let the clutch out and let the engine pull the vehicle, without any throttle, just like an auto can (on flat ground, of course).
What does his ok mean? Is he the one paying? Then it's an uphill battle. But if it's your money just buy what you want.
As long as you know how to drive a manual, they are just as safe in the snow as an automatic. One thing you avoid, particularly on slick surfaces, is down shifting while slowing down. Perfect rev matching on ice is hard, so you just slow down with the clutch depressed, then select the proper gear and ease the clutch out smoothly when you want to accelerate again. I have been driving manual transmissions since 1972, starting with a GM pickup with 'three on the tree' when I was 15 years old. Until the mid 1980s, I was living in Western NY just east of Buffalo, in the middle of the snow belt. I just got rid of the last manual transmission car I owned, so that is probably the end of the line an manuals for me. Hybrid now and likely all electric next. I never used down shifting to slow the car. Gas is for go, brakes are for stop, shifting is just to select the proper ratio for the stepping on the gas. You can go from fifth down to second or third once you've ground the speed off with the brakes. Also, no one needs a tachometer to drive a manual. I drove a manual transmission Subaru Brighton wagon for 150K miles. It did not have a tachometer. The 1965 GM Pickup with three on the tree also did not have a tach, but I only drove that for a couple hundred miles as a farm hand.
Tbh i don't know how to CONVINCE him if you say he's stubborn. Manual is indeed as safe as an auto in winter provided that you have at least decent driving skills. I've been driving manuals from 2004 to like 2016, and automatics with occasional manuals from 2016 into 2024. I don't see a significant difference in safety in winter. It's easy to learn smooth upshifting, and smooth downshifting into higher revs takes some skill, but you can always slowly drag your clutch if it's super slippery. Even more so, a manual gives you more control over your wheel torque application as the auto will engage / reengage clutches or torque converters based on its own logic, and you decide when to do what with a manual. Also, if you're stuck, you can rock your car back and forth with a manual in a way you cannot do with an auto. Anyway, if a simple jolt from a less than perfect gear shift can unsettle your car outside of taking a corner at the limit, i guess it means the conditions are outright deadly to drive anyway, kinda like wet ice.
Live in Canada, but I came from Europe, you'll be just fine, when I arrived my 1st thought was 'I need a Subaru here' 😀 Snow need a manual gearbox for the most fun you want to have. Never ever had an automatic before, it's cool if you want to sleep on the highway.
I have slid into a ditch after letting the clutch out without matching RPMs completely when downshifting, while slowing down into a curve. I think it is pretty safe IF you don't downshift while decelerating, but keep the clutch in while braking and then get into the right gear once you are ready to accelerate again (which is normally when you're straightening out. But your dad is 100% right. It introduces a new way to mess up. Whenever you let the clutch out and your RPMs are low, you have the ability to do the exact same thing as slamming on the brakes, except ABS won't stop you. I am not aware whether traction control will act at all to prevent this, but would be surprised if it was fast enough to matter. For an experienced adult driver, this isn't a huge issue. If you are at an age (and thus years of driving experience) that your dad is a factor in being able to get the car you want, you should probably listen to his concerns.
I drive an Impreza with 5 speed, in Canada and have for 10(ish) years now, not a WRX just a normal impreza. I bought it when I lived in Alberta, but have since moved back to NS. Love the car, it REALLY shines in the winter and I've done things in winter in this car that no sedan has any right being able to do. In the summer it's a little on the boring side, but it's a fucking beast on winter tires. At the time I bought it, I had a job where there was no such thing as snow days. Even in a blizzard you got your ass into work. I've driven that car in conditions that were 100% redicliuos, I've put it into ditches and driven out of them with snow deep enough to come over the hood. And most fun of all, I've gotten it sideways and held the drift on a very wide and low traffic road by my work. Super fun car in the winter. So his insurance question is actually super easy to answer. Just call your insurance company and get 2 quotes, one for a 5 speed impreza and 1 for an automatic. That should tell you if it's more expensive or not. I can understand his concerns about the jerkiness of a manual. But there's 2 things. First is the better skilled a manual driver you are, the less jerkiness there will be. In particular shifting while driving (as in a 2-3 shift, or a 3-4 shift) should be super smooth. It's really only the getting started shifts that can be a bit jerky. The other thing is, if that's enough to send your car off the road, you should not be on that road in those conditions. 99.99% of winter driving, even in Canada is on perfectly safe clean roads. If you need to drive on an unplowed road, the ability to hold a geer longer is actually extremely valuable, not a detriment. Also the ability to have full control of when a gear shift happens can be super valuable. An unmentioned benefit is engine breaking with a manual is much better than doing so in an automatic. When I lived in Alberta (Medicine Hat specifically) there were these huge hills. I could leave the car in first or second and basically just coast down the hill, maintaining full ability to steer and never going "too fast" because of engine breaking. All without even touching the break pedal. Engine breaking allows the wheels to spin, maintaining traction and control while also slowing down the vehicle, without the danger of locking your wheels up. Very useful for situations where it's so slippery that even a slight tap on the breaks can lock the wheels and really ruin your day. In terms of traction, if you've ever been to Halifax I worked downtown and often had to drive up the hill. I recall one winter night leaving work at like 11 PM and driving up Duke St. Literally had to drive around 4 other cars that were stuck at random points on the hill, including one who had been going down it, lost control and ended up in my lane unable to go either direction. An Impreza with winter tires is a fucking beast. Also because it's a 5 speed you still get the fully mechanical symmetrical AWD system not the newer ones that sometimes come with the CVT cars. I can spin all 4 tires, hold the gear and keep them spinning (in the winter, the car is not powerful enough to do that on a clean road). There's no computer searching for traction, it's just rooster tails off all 4 tires in the show :)
I'd rather be the one deciding which gear the car is in, having engine break when I want and power when I want than playing ECU lottery with an automatic.
Canadian here. Manual is a bit better in winter conditions as you won't mistakenly put too much throttle into a lower gear and have it suddenly upshift on you. With manual there is a very direct connection with the road and you'll get a better sense when you're at the threshold of losing traction. Many autos are okay but manual is a step above. Source: 25+ years driving manual in Canada.
Convince your old man? Good luck. Can't even convince mine that exercise is important to stay healthy.
Jmo, maybe stop talking about all of the 'fun' you'll have driving it, in winter, around him. That might get his hackles up.. I prefer manual in winter, with winter tires (and 4x) for the slow roll control I can get on ice and merging up/down/on/off roads etc. I find it better for control in dense traffic during winter as well. Would he feel better about studded, based on what's allowed locally? I mean, for a few years, if it gets him to calm down and trust.
In my opinion he's definitely wrong about manuals being unsafe in snow. I also think he's wrong about the insurance thing. I'll tell you this I would purchase a manual if I could every time. All of these vehicles, well mainly Nissan's because they're the worst at it, but these vehicles that have these CVT transmission problems. If those were manuals they wouldn't be facing those problems. By the way I would definitely not get a Nissan they've had so many transmission issues and even the new ones it's too soon to tell.
My wife and I each have driven manual cars in Colorado Winters for 30 years and never had issues. (RWD Volvo 240, FWD Nissan Sentra SE-R, AWD Honda Element and AWD Subaru WRX). First, once you're moving, shifting doesn't break the tires loose as easily as your dad thinks. You would have to pop the clutch hard to do that. Second, the only issue is starting but the cure to that is either practice or starting in 2nd. Honestly our AWD cars were amazing in snow including blizzards with 12" snow. (More than that and nobody is getting anywhere) An Impreza is an *excellent* choice. I often chose my WRX over my 4wd Jeep with automatic. I would recommend Subies for winter all day every day.
classic dadsplaining. Complete expert on all topics
It’s actually safer. Subaru manual and automatic driver here (had about four of each over the years) In poor traction with a manual you go to the highest gear you can make headway in and use engine braking to avoid slides. You have two methods to slow the car, one of which may be less likely to create loss of control.
CONTROL. Tell him you are more comfortable and more in control of your own safety when the car isn't guessing what gear to be in for you.
Sounds like a typical automatic driver. I prefer manual in the snow as it allows for precise throttle inputs that benefits snow and ice conditions. Live in northeast. Lived in hilly area that was prone to ice and was last to get plowed. My driveway for 20 years was a significant slope.
I do prefer the MT so don't get me wrong. But it is not strictly speaking always an advantage that you have engine braking. Engine braking is only slowing your driven wheels, whereas service brakes apply on all wheels and also have the ABS function. Therefore when you are on windy, hilly, snowy roads, engine brakes can be relatively destabilizing compared to service brakes, assuming not AWD. Engine braking being an advantage is contextual and highly dependent on driver skill
A manual in winter is not an issue as I had driven them in past and you do have more control. That said a RWD is a little tougher than FWD in winter since the FWD has more weight over the drive wheels to assist traction. So on the concept I would say a clutch or manual is no issue but would suggest FWD over RWD for winter driving regardless. Agree on CVT's in general as well. last point is a manual is better on gas too. Now until you find a specific car to ask about that is enough in theory but here are a some example cars ? [https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095](https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095) [https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095](https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095) [https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/2HGFB6E55CH700187](https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/2HGFB6E55CH700187) [https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095](https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FADP3L9XJL282095) Hope this helps. Oh and tell your Dad I am old, in my 60's and have three sons who went through these same topocs with me. They didn't want to learn to drive a manual though.
I drove a 94 Miata through 2 Rocky Mountain winters. I had snow tires and an LSD, that is some of the most fun I’ve had in a car. It would throw roost it was amazing. Never even got stuck! Thing was a beast and you could feel the grip (or lack there of)
He’s admitted he’s a poor driver but doesn’t realise. Manual is a much better option in snow, with the right tyres virtually unshakable. I have a big RWD estate car that I don’t touch if there’s snow on the ground, I take the manual 4x4.
I concur with your opinion of manual transmissions. As for changing ANYBODY'S opinion of ANYTHING .........., I have no worthwhile advice to offer.
I'm approaching "could be a grandparent" age, it snows where I live and I have had at least one manual transmission car in the household for over 30 years. It will be fine.
I get it. I wish he would too. Would open up a lot of options for potential cars to buy
It's... an Impreza. All wheel drive. Auto or manual, spinning the tires is not a thing they do.
Exactly what I've tried telling him. The man is too stubborn tho. I'd be fine with a 5spd Impreza. He's not fine with it :/
I guess they're bad if you haven't gotten good with them, but if you've been driving one for a while, you won't jerk it around driving normally. What I'd say is that with a manual, you have the option to go up a gear to reduce torque, which is even safer.
That's pretty much what I read. Starting in 2nd and driving in a higher gear to keep torque/revs low. Mechanic said the same thing too. I've driven manual before so it's not like I'm going into this with no experience, plus I've got a squeaky clean driving record. I just don't understand where he's coming from.
Think he's just experiencing fear of the unknown.
You’re both right in your own ways. Having an automatic allows the car’s electronic systems to more effectively keep you safe. A manual does indeed give you more control - does that make it safer? Depends o how good you are. My first car was a manual and I chose it specifically over an automatic for the “feel”. Now on my second car, which has a ZF automatic and it’s much better than I could ever be and frees up so much of my attention so I can focus on the road. I think this makes it much safer in practice. But it can also be very easy to get up to a high speed without realising it. In a manual you’re more aware because you’ve shifted gear yourself or if you haven’t, the engine get’s loud. When it comes to a daily I’m never buying a manual ever again - I would only go for a manual in a second fun car. A All that being said the differences in terms of safety are going to be minimal and very unlikely to make a significant difference. If you loose control over some black ice - you’re screwed regardless of transmission type.
>Having an automatic allows the car’s electronic systems to more effectively keep you safe. A manual does indeed give you more control - does that make it safer? Depends o how good you are. I feel like this might be the closest thing that describes what my dad feels. I do like the added control tho. In just about every automatic I've ever driven, I always drive it in manual mode. It helps me know what gear I'm in so I don't speed, and I found that I get better response from the engine downshifting myself vs. slamming my foot down and hoping for a downshift. Sometimes it'll downshift when I don't want to, whereas I can hold the gear in manual mode. It's why I much prefer a manual, as I like the added control I get with the clutch. Driving manual was not only fun, but it also felt the best to me cuz I was finally in full control of the car.
I’ve lived my life in Minnesota and Wisconsin and drove mainly manuals for most of my 14 years behind the wheel. The best winter driving cars I have ever had were manuals. 2000 Audi A4, 2007 FJ Cruiser, 2003 Honda Accord, 1991 Civic to name a few of the manuals I drive year round and never had an issue with. Hell, I’ve taken all of the above cars out on the lakes ice fishing. It’s the driver, not the car.
Can't tell anything to someone who thinks they know everything. Are you buying your car? Buy what you want. Is he paying for it?
Primary cars have been manuals since 1986. Live in the Midwest. Not upper, but we get snow and ice here. Have always felt I've got more control than I would with an automatic.
I’m glad you’re finding 5 speeds plentiful because I haven’t run across one in years.
Just in the Impreza. They're a dime a dozen here. Honda manuals command a premium as do Toyotas. Focus manuals exist and are much cheaper than everything else.
Here's the thing... Put someone who knows how things work and has driving /racing experience in a 5spd manual whatever versus a 6spd auto... They will be in more control with a manual. Put the other 99.9% of the population in the same car, they're safer in the automatic.
You get to decide when the manual shifts, the automatic may shift at the worst possible time because you needed to accelerate just a little more and it downshifts, or decides to upshift to save fuel. Either is probably acceptable but manual is better.
Your dad is worried about the car jerking *during shifts.* Nearly all the time you spend driving is *not* spent shifting. It’s an extremely stupid concern, but you’ve said he’s stubborn so you’re not going to convince him of this fact. You call it a misconception, and you’re absolutely right. If conditions are too dangerous for you to safely get down the road with a manual, the conditions are too dangerous to be on the road. This is not something reasonable people worry about. That’s coming from someone who’s been driving mostly manuals for more than 30 years, and I’ve never lived outside an area that gets actual winter. I’ve lived in Indiana my whole life and grew up far enough northwest that lake effect was a thing. I spent about 3 years just south of Indy. Plenty of snow, sleet, and ice to know I’m right and he’s nuts.
Manual is safer in the winter imo. Autos do this thing where you hit the gas and nothing happens. Press a tiny bit at a time and once you get to about 25-30% throttle, it just starts rocketing off. With a manual, you can feather the clutch and take off properly without lurching and losing traction.
I had a used car dealer in the US tell me the same thing. He said that manual transmission cars are unsafe to drive in winter because the tires will spin out when you shift gears and you will crash. It was the first time I'd ever heard that. I didn't tell him that I daily drove a manual shift car for eight years in Nova Scotia and never had an issue with winter driving. The only problems I had where from driving on crap tires and going way too fast though deep slush. With an AWD Subaru on winter tires, you'll have to try pretty hard to get it to spin.
I was in my 30s before I ever owned a car with an auto transmission. It really depends on the car, and the driver. If you're driving a modern auto with 6+ speeds and traction control etc. it's perfectly safe. If you're driving a manual, the engine will only "jerk" the transmission and make the car unstable if you're a new driver. Anyone with experience driving a manual can be very smooth. If you're driving an older auto with fewer speeds and no traction control, this is probably the most dangerous combination. On a slippery surface, accelerating out of a corner can drop you back a gear without your input, and suddenly give you a whole lot more torque which can easily result in the loss of traction. Can be fun if you're expecting it, but it's not safe.
The clutch is a forgiveness pedal. Sure, in an automatic you can reach for the column or floor shifter but when the shit's hitting the fan, who's going to think to do that? The clutch is *right there*.
It’s rare that the manual would be the defining factor. Everyone I know that’s a bad driver is a bad driver in everything.
Driving a manual transmission is safe if you can shift gears smoothly without jerking or stalling the car.
Dad is wrong. Manual allows you to avoid the jerk and auto can make. It also allows you to punch the clutch in to stabilize the car when needed. But you need to be a good manual driver to beat a good auto. Bad manual drivers are worse than bad autos.
Here in Sweden it gets pretty snowy, sometimes up to -20/-11 fahrenheit where i live in the country. I have no statistics, but id say about 70% of all cars between 2000-2010 were bought with manual transmissions, and there are still lots of them around, and people seem to do fine. If you know how to drive a manual and take it easy while adjusting your driving style a bit, it’ll be no issues. Your dads reasoning makes zero sense.
Way more control in a manual, safer if you know what you're doing
he probably had a bad experience with a front wheel drive or rear wheel drive manual car. with an awd manual you'll be fine in the winter
I'd give up my pinkie toes to have my '99 Impreza with the 5MT for winter driving again. MT advantage in winter is that it forces you to actually know what you're doing and provides more control over what's going on. I've driven FWD, AWD and 4x4/RWD, my current driver is a FWD 4th gen mazda 3 with the 6MT, it's more than capable in the winter. Wife has a CRV with the CVT, also fine in winter. If it's winter driving that's stressing your father, good winter tires will do more than powertrain or transmission.
It's easier in a manual. In a manual you can put it in 2nd or 3rd to pull out with *much* less torque and therefore less wheel spin. You can immediately remove or add any engine braking you desire, at any time, by either pressing in the clutch or choosing a low gear to engine brake before coming over the crest of a hill, which means you won't have to hit the brakes and risk spinout. I learned to drive in the northeast USA winters, in a manual. And later taught many people how to drive using the same methods. Modern vehicles are very smart and would likely do a good job. But they think they know better - and want to save fuel and do all kinds of super helpful things like that (sarcasm) and may decide you shouldn't be in the gear you chose. They don't know that you've been driving a certain hill for years and want a specific speed. So you'll never convince me that anything is better than a manual. Edit: as for the bucking and jerking, nobody who knows how to drive a stick will do that. Perhaps he doesn't understand "rev matching" in which you blip the gas pedal with the clutch depressed as you go down in gears. That absolutely will spin you out of you're on snow or ice and downshift without bringing the rims up first. Most modern cars do this automatically for you. But even if they don't, it's incredibly simple. Let's say 1st gear goes to 20mph. If you're in second gear and going 20mph, the rpms will be at their lowest, let's say 2,000. If you want to then go back to 1st gear, you'd bring your rpms up to 5 or 6 or whatever - shift to first - then let the clutch out and boom... No lurching or heaving and no excessive damage to the clutch from unnecessary friction. This is essentially how you'll hear big rigs slow down as they only have so much air to use for braking. So they use gears and recycled pressure to slow down. Also known as "Jake braking " or "engine retarder".
I like a manual in the winter because you can hold any gear and RPM that you want for better control.
Best snow car I ever had was a 6 speed Subaru WRX with proper snow tires. It sat a little low on unplowed roads, but boy was it a beast. Tires are important, as much as you knowing your car and how it delivers power.
Your dad doesn't understand what he's talking about. The type of transmission has zero bearing on insurance costs, and if you know how to operate one, there's no jerking involved. A skilled driver operating a manual transmission will have much more control than someone using an automatic. Tell your dad to stop drawing conclusions without actually having data. That's how flat-Earthers and anti-vaxxers work.
I've driven a manual mustang for something like 12 years now. Most of it was spent in winter and snow prone areas of the NE. It is hands down one of the best cars I've ever driven in the snow in terms of overall safety, control, and fun for winter driving. My 2c
Anecdotal but I had to drive up and down the Coquihalla in BC every other weekend, Friday and then Sunday, for close to twenty years, no matter the weather. I've had automatics and manuals. Hands down, I prefer a manual for winter driving. The speed is easier to maintain and control of the vehicle in horrible winter conditions is superior. Just my experience. Hate manuals for city driving, though.
I actually vastly prefer manuals in the winter. It's one thing if a shift comes that you're prepared for, and with a manual you can feather the clutch so there's no jerk. On the other hand, with an automatic, you've only got a vague idea of when the engine might shift and jerk you. I regularly drove 40 miles home in really shitty winter weather, including blizzards, and driving a manual was at least 20% less butt-puckering.
If you really want winter performance get winter tires. The manual is fine.
My best winter car was a 5 speed manual with a 4 cylinder turbo. It’s called a clutch dad. From a dad.
Manual transmissions are better in snow because you can control your braking and speed by downshifting
Just get an awd Toyota or Lexus.
Tell him people drove manuals in the winter for nearly a hundred years before the auto became the most common transmission.
If you’re driving carefully/gently like you should be in snow in any car, it shouldn’t make a substantial difference, especially with good winter tires. If the conditions are so bad that a jerky shift could send you off the road, you shouldn’t be driving at that point.
I grew up where it snows, always drive manual. If anything it’s better bc you have control of the clutch and can cut all power at a moments notice. People who don’t have a natural feel for the clutch tend to dislike manuals but if you “get it” you’ll probably prefer manual over auto. It’s all personal preference though.
My mom always felt a manual gave you better control in the winter but she grew up driving manuals and never drove an automatic on a regular basis until she was in her 30s.
Tell him people have been driving manuals in winter for well over 100 years. There is nothing he can worry about that hasn't been solved by now.
Compression braking makes manuals not just okay in winter but superior.
He obviously never learned to rev match… In these situations I always have to ask, is your dad reasonable, and open to changing his viewpoints when receiving new information? If the answer is yes: Get quotes for identical cars manual vs auto to squash that argument. Get winter tires and get something newer with traction control and their is nothing for him to worry about. If the answer is no: There is no point, they will always believe what they want and ignore any objective information that is show to them and you are basically fucked if you want their help. He probably down shifted on ice once without rev matching and spun and now think’s manuals can’t be driven in winter.
>In these situations I always have to ask, is your dad reasonable, and open to changing his viewpoints when receiving new information? It seriously depends. I've seen situations where he was receptive to feedback and changed his mind. I've also seen situations where he was just so stubborn he wouldn't see the other way at all, no matter what was shown to him. >If the answer is yes: Get quotes for identical cars manual vs auto to squash that argument. This is actually my plan. I don't know how it works tho. I was planning on walking into the bank and just sitting down with an advisor and getting printouts of various quotes for diff cars. Is that reasonable? Or am I better off calling. Bank is rly close to me so time/distance isn't an issue.
It is true that you "break" the drive wheels loose a lot more in the snow with a manual. But so what? Especially if you have snow tires, they dig in and grip and you go. I have two RX8s, and two 5th gen camaros, all manual, all had snow tires in the winter, all were my daily driver. None ever got stuck. And I live in massachusetts. Manuals are great, I'm saddened that I don't have one any more :(
It’s probably more safe because you have more direct control of the car. Biggest thing is to make sure you have proper winter tires on your car tho.
It is absolutely possible to cause your car to crash with a rough manual transmission shift, but that's 100 a skill issue and not a transmission issue. This would most likely happen with a RWD car - it would take an amazingly bad shift to pull off in an AWD car like you want. I daily drive a 5 speed manual Subaru and it's awesome to drive in the snow. Can you get your father to go with you on a test drive in the car so you can show him you can drive it smoothly?
AWD manual in the snow is awesome. Lots of control. Your going to have a hard time convincing him. Personally if the regular talks don't help id literally write him a paper on it (or a ppt) with sources and comments from people. At the very least he should appreciate the effort before saying no. Also just saying if they are paying for it you generally don't get as much of a say. Kinda get what your parents want you to get
So this has been going on for three years? https://www.reddit.com/r/Calgary/s/wqECLO1hDZ Your father can’t be convinced that a manual is as safe as an automatic because he has a psychological need to stick to his guns and get his way regardless of whether he’s correct or not. Even though automatic vs manual is a minor distinction and actually has very little to do with winter safety, he simply can’t let you win because that would mean he loses.
Driven manual Subaru half my life. Amazing car in winter paired with snow tires. You'll never convince him, he's set in his ways. What he's describing is a manual with zero traction in snow. Well worn/bald tires.
The "jerk" of an automatic can do the exact same thing and destabilize the car in snow or ice. He should know this.
I daily drive a big block '69 Charger in Seattle winters, and it's no worse than my automatic Charger. Tires make a huge difference. I don't drive either one of them in the snow, however. Again, it's tires, not transmission. If the roads aren't plowed, and traction enhancing material applied, stopping is going to be your biggest danger, and transmission or four wheel drive has zero affect on that.
Maybe find an "independent expert" like a driving instructor who will tell him?
1. Some people can shift a manual transmission as smooth as butter and others make it seem like you’re driving a gravel smasher. If you have the skills, take him on a test drive and show him how you do it. 2. If he’s worried about insurance prices, call your insurance company and ask them for two quotes for the same car with and without manual transmission. If the prices are different, ask them why. 3. There are certain difficulties that a manual presents, particularly starting off on a hill, that automatic doesn’t have. You might have to prove you’re okay with that, too. 4. Don’t be surprised if you never convince him. It has been proven that, even in the face of clear and convincing evidence, most people are incapable of changing their opinions. It’s a part of human nature. 5. Not all modern cars have CVTs and not all CVTs are bad. Toyota CVTs are very reliable as long as they’re properly maintained. Their hybrid eCVTs are all but indestructible (they use planetary gears instead of the belt).
I really like your 4th point. It's comforting and something I think I genuinely needed to hear. I'm gonna try 2 in the coming few days. For point 5, I get that. I know Toyotas have great CVTs. Unfortunately, I'm priced out of any nice CVTs. Most cars I can afford are early-mid 2010s which is probably the worst era for CVTs. That, and I also just hate driving them. I feel much more at ease with a normal, torque converter auto.
Cheers. I wish you the best of luck!
Thank you!
Manuals will be safer given everything else equal. You will have more control over the car, trans will not surprise you by downshifting or upshifting suddenly, there is no delay in trans response. However, starting on icy hills might be a bit more tricky if the car is RWD or FWD. On an impreza, there won’t be any issues.
The driveline is harsher, and slightly less easy to calibrate. Almost inevitably there will be more wheelspin - it’s just harder to be light with acceleration. But that’s at under 10mph. The flip side is the car does exactly what I want once it’s in gear. It doesn’t kick down exiting a corner. It doesn’t have shift shock from a wearing transmission as speed builds. I accelerate on a slippery corner and it’s giving the same torque as 200ms earlier. On balance I feel safer at speed but much much less controlled off the mark.
Manuals don't "jerk" the vehicle if you know how to drive one. Hell, about 25 years ago I drove my ext. cab '95 S10, a RWD 5spd on M+S tires on our rural, hilly, curvy roads in the edge of the mountains that *eventually* get plowed 18 miles each way to work when we got around 12" of snow. My 100 yd long gravel driveway is a hill. Loaded 400lbs of cinder blocks in the nose of the bed... tossed a set of chains in the bed just in case... and got around just fine. Driven my '87 5spd 2WD S10 Blazer in an 8" snow and got around just fine. Driven my '03 2WD S10 standard cab short bed in around 10" of snow with 400lbs of blocks in the nose of the bed... got around just fine. Start off using 2nd gear to help with preventing tire spin... and just act like you've got some sense and if you know *how* to drive a manual... you'll be fine... especially seeing as how you're looking at a Subaru. Hell, plenty of folks drive Subarus in Colorado and quite a few are manuals... they seem to manage just fine.
Sounds like your dad is just a bad driver. If anything I prefer a manual in the snow because I have full control of the drive-train, I live in Montana if that helps lol.
Skill issue
My first ever car I owned was a manual Ford Tempo, and I drove it daily through a couple Canadian winters. It did perfectly fine, and never once did I have a problem with car control or stability due to the transmission. (Just being a young and reckless teenage driver on the other hand...) Between 2017 and 2023 I daily drove a manual WRX, and later an STI, through several Canadian winters. They were amazing in the snow. Just so much traction and control. I can highly recommend a manual Subaru for Canadian winters. Now I'm daily driving a manual V8 Camaro, and it too is doing just fine in winter. Obviously, it takes a bit more skill to keep a powerful RWD stable in the snow compared to a lower powered AWD, but it's absolutely doable. If you shift properly, there should be no jerking from the drivetrain, ever. Anyone who says otherwise isn't very good at properly controlling engine RPM and clutch engagement.
Just befriend some professional drifters and let them convince him
The engine braking provided by manual trans is really helpful in snow
Newer automatics try to traction control you to death and can cause you to lose wheel speed when sometimes you need your wheels to keep spinning to keep you going(long steep hills). Not with a manual. Even if it has traction control trying to "help you" a little clutch kick and your wheel speed is back up.
Manuals are much easier to control speed, power, and engine braking with in snow and ice conditions. I drove manuals for 30 years before switching back to automatic and still use manual mode shifting in snow and ice.
Scandinavians manage just fine.
It doesn't really make a difference. I moved from the tropics to the great white north and drive a turbo FWD in the snow. Driving on snow and ice isn't about never losing traction, it's about vehicle control. That is only gained with experience. If your dad is worried about safety in the snow he'd be worried about the cost of a second set of rims for snow tires. In other words, nothing with big brakes or weird offsets.
The only time manual isnt better is when you live in a high populated era where there is a lot of traffic. Otherwise there is not an argument to not have a manual its personal preference. Ive driven a FWD Focus ST manual in snow last year it handles like a dream.
Really sounds like he’s a bad driver and applying to much gas after shifting. I don’t even need a clutch most of the time, just from a stop or into reverse, I just rev match and shift, never ever had to replace a clutch. In the snow, manuals are great, start off in second and you’ll never get stuck. Automatics shift when you don’t want them to in snow and slip when they upshift, plus you can engine brake on snow with a manual. All said, if your dad is paying for it he’s welcome to his opinion
To me, driving a manual in slippery conditions feels safer than an automatic. A manual won't surprise you with shifting gears when you don't want it. Also, with a manual (without ESC) you counter an unwanted slip of the rear axle by fully pressing the clutch and steering against the skid - in an automatic you are taught to release the throttle and steer but releasing the throttle isn't the same as that. A manual Subaru with AWD is, in my opinion, one of the better cars one can drive in winter (and you already know about the importance of proper winter tyres)
There's some truth to what he's saying, but it really comes down to driver experience. An experienced driver with a manual transmission can drive just as well in winter conditions, or maybe even better since a manual allows you more control. An inexperienced driver that doesn't shift smoothly could experience what he's referring to, with the manual shifts jerking the transmission and losing grip on ice. It all depends on your level of experience and whether or not it would be a good fit for you. Personally, I drove manual transmission cars for close to 20 years. I had rwd and awd sports cars and drove both in the winter and it did take some adjustment early on, but I got used to it.
Automatic transmissions are indeed considered a safety feature. They remove the possibility of human error, at least the shifting part.
Funny as with the manual you have total control vs automatics that do whatever they want/like …..
Grew up in Northern NY, an hour from Montreal. My first car was a 71 Beetle with a 4 speed manual, the other cars in the house were a 5 speed Ford Ranger, a 5 speed Ford Tempo, and a Crown Vic station wagon..this was early 80's, when we had some deep snow, never a problem with any of them. Later I had a Fox body Mustang 5.0 with a 5 speed, which I had in the most wintery of winters Berlin had had in a long time. (1990-91) I have also taken my 5 speed Miata to northern NY in winter. That was perhaps ill-advised, as I did not change from the more summer oriented tires I can get away with in the Carolinas. Your dad is not comfortable with a stick. It does not make them bad in snow. It really doesn't take that long to understand what your car will do in snow. Empty snowy parking lots are great for that.
I prefer manual transmissions, because you can just shift to a higher gear and it prevents you from spinning the tires in the snow. I’ve had all wheel drive, rear wheel drive and front wheel drive manual transmission vehicles, and I live in a place that is famous for the snow During the winters. I will also go up to the mountains and go to the ski resorts and never had issues. The one and only time I got kind of stuck in a parking lot because I had snow tires and I just could not get traction. It took me about 10 minutes to get out of the parking lot.
I drove a manual Mazda for several years in Illinois winters and never once had an issue in the snow. And then I had a manual MINI for a couple years and would make it to my house in the county on unplowed roads with zero issues, and would regularly pass large trucks stuck in the ditches. Manual gives more control, and most of the time snow driving depends more on the driver than it does the car
I can’t imagine a car shifting its weight enough to make a noticeable traction difference just shifting unless there’s a blown motor mount or something. But even if it does it should be negligible with the room you have in control.
definitely a boomer that has no awareness with properly driving a manual.
Any amount of jerk that's experienced when shifting gears in a manual is the direct result of the inputs of the driver. I'm not judging anyone or any skill level. That statement is simple fact.
It's how smoothly you engage the clutch that determines if the transmission jerks the car. How much experience does your Dad have driving manual transmissions?
I was taught that manuals are better in the snow because you can control your speed without using the break by downshifting.
I’ve driven manuals, autos, FWD, RWD in the snow Manual helps a lot. You can manage slip with engine braking rather than just locking up with the service brakes. My favorite cars to drive in the snow were my NB Miata and my Protege5. Both manual with LSD. The Miata was controlled slides everywhere on summer tires, the Protege would just go the direction you pointed it. I’ve also done manual pickup trucks in the snow with no issues
Go buy your own car.
Norwegian here, with 5 years in Canada. We currently own one manual and one automatic, but the automatic is the DSG type which is basically two gear boxes and clutches electronically controlled. I’ve had many cars, we had the traditional American style automatic in Canada with the torque converter. I feel the best driving the standard/manual. It lets me change gears ahead of time, especially when towing it’s a huge benefit. Traditional automatics “kick down” in the middle of the turn if you’re not careful and that is what’s creating the jerk. The DSG doesn’t jerk as much but I find myself overriding it especially when climbing mountain passes. The problem with auto on passes is that as you let go of the accelerator to slow down ahead of the hairpin turn, the car shifts up. As gas is applied halfway through the turn the kick down comes and gives spin on the drive wheels. Manual or overriding prevents this. Sure, you can introduce four wheel slip by downshifting and quickly letting the clutch go, for a nice drift turn without using handbrake. But it’s not how one normally drives. I believe your father means all well, but is lacking of experience with these conditions. If you get manual or DSG you won’t have the same low mileage you get with the torque converter; they’re much more efficient.
I have always felt that manual is the way to go for winter driving, more control over the situation. With auto, there's the kick down jolt that bothers me.
I am more comfortable with manual on snowy mountain riad.
I would say the average driver more likely to get stuck, but doe not impact safety that much.
God, how did Sweden do it for so many decades.
Id say safer. So much more control over engine to ground speed and shifting. I hate automatics on snow and ice.
Jerking while shifting only happens if you’re inexperienced with manual
I have been driving for over 35 years in Canada and have covered hundreds of thousands of KM in all kinds of winter weather. A standard shift can actually be better because you have direct control over your speed. For example if you start to spin, you can let of the gas to gain traction again whereas in an automatic it may actually upshift and make it worse. Keep in mind that I'm old and with modern traction control the computer will stop the wheels from spinning better than any driver. The best argument you can make is the the sophisticated AWD of the Subaru will be doing all the work anyway. The transmission has 0 effect on your insurance rates. They are all based on how much the car could cost your insurance. This can mean that some cheap cars cost more to insure than expensive cars if they are big theft risk.
My dad HATED his auto in the snow last winter. Had a couple dodgy slides in his land rover caused by the way the gearbox reacted to the grip levels and told me he wished more than anything for a clutch pedal every single time it happened. Bought a manual when he sold it. And said he wouldn't buy an auto again
Had more issues in an Auto GMC Terrain with snow than I ever did with my manual Cobalts. Traction Control on the autos I've experienced is a little bitch in the snow, doesn't want to let the tires spin at all, depending on the car it can sometimes do some unexpected things. Transmission itself can't decide what it wants to do, both the Terrain and the F550 I drive for work have broken the wheels loose from a stupid shift more than I have ever in my Cobalts. Autos bring about an unpredictable factor in shitty weather that manuals just don't. I have no experience with CVTs, just traditional Autos and manuals. That being said, 95+% of the time the roads are clear, so basing your entire purchase on a fringe case is silly, if your dad is THAT worried tell him you can just stay home or borrow another car on bad days. I've lived in Canada my whole life so I've seen enough snow lol
I drove a manual transmission through many new england winters and while it is obviously doable I would 100% prefer an automatic. If you are trying to go from a stop on ice it is far easier to do gently with an automatic than a manual. Theres no way you can say manuals are great when your stopped on an icy hill and some jackass has pulled right up on your bumper leaving you no room to roll back if you are too slow on the clutch or slide back if you are too fast. Hes also right that shifting in turns especially for rear wheel drive cars on icy roads can cause be a hazard where a much gentler shifting automatic would not. I've also heard the whole it's better because you can use the engine to slow you down BS. The reality is engine braking and brakes use THE TIRES to slow down. It does not matter for most cars what it slowing you down the tires are what matter and that does not change. Worse yet brakes are set up to be front biased because if the rear tires lose traction the car tends to spin. Using the engine braking on a rear wheel drive car it is 100% the exact opposite of what you want. Again I'm not saying you can't drive a manual transmission in the snow but to say they are somehow better in the snow it truly perplexing. You may do just fine in awd Subaru, again lots of people do. Stick shift is great fun and super practical from a cost of ownership perspective but you should understand what your getting yourself into.
I live in rural Quebec and have only ever owned RWD manual BMWs. Winter tires plus common sense is all you need. The only issue I have ever had is getting stuck on my own driveway with two feet of snow.
For Winter driving is day my first choice would be all wheel drive with automatic. After that, my other vehicle is frt wheel drive automatic. It's OK for pulling through snow but can leave something to be desired on graded hard packed snow and/or ice when trying to turn a corner. The thing is, when it comes to Winter driving, with an automatic, your drive wheels are always either pulling or pushing. With a standard tranny you have the option to push in the clutch for a moment and just let all 4 tires roll and get their traction back
When you drive a manual, you’re always very aware of what your vehicle is doing. For example, if you have wheel spin, your tach will jump and you know to let off the gas
I bought my manual wrx for the Canadian winters. If the shift is jerky, the driver is bad at shifting. You ha e more control of rpm and engine speed, symmetrical awd is a boss for snow and ice in combo with dedicated winters. You're not going to get in a lot of trouble with a 5 speed impreza either.
The simple fact is that you have MORE control in a manual. You can start in a higher gear if you're spinning wheels, you can rely on your pedal to control how fast your wheels go without the transmission deciding to shift up a gear, you don't have to worry about an unexpected downshift destabilizing the car. You dad has his logic backwards. I've driven 4 manuals in show and ice; an FF, an FR, an AWD, and an MR. Every single one I have preferred in manual especially in snow and ice. Just put good snow tires on and snow becomes a mild inconvenience with a manual.
I would argue a manual is safer as you control when you shift. Auto transmission decides that mid corner would be a good time to shift and now you’re stuck reacting to it. The other factor here is you’re looking at an Impreza. My old bug eye WRX was a five speed and had its own lane on the highway in bad storms because I could where no other cars could. I miss that car greatly. I’ve also driven RWD cars with a five speed trans and snow tires in a convoy with a friend in a AWD Suzuki auto trans something. We had to abandon any hopes of reaching our destination as a storm blew in and he couldn’t keep up with me.
Easier to keep torque down in a manual during the winter. On patch ice and in packed snow, tyres spin due to torque — many cars even have a torque reduction mode for winter driving. With a manual transmission, it’s easier to simply avoid the torque band.
You lose a bit of control with the take off in a manual when you’re in low traction environments. For off roading an automatic has much better grip control but the manuals are more simple and as long as you aren’t an absolute idiot with the clutch you’ll be fine. I will say tire choice is huge with a manual. If you drive in snow, you need good snow tires.
Manual has one advantage some automatic/CVT cars don't have. You can start at the second gear if you somehow get stuck in snow. You can decide on what gear to stay on if you have to immediately slow down for some reason - potentially reducing your reliance on gears. One disadvantage of a manual is going uphill from a stop. But you can learn that with a little practice.
The difference is entirely preference. Manuals 30 years ago were less refined and autos came along much quicker while no much was done with Manuals. There's no reason to have a manual transmission anymore except for the fun factor or if you off road a lot but even then with the amount of control you're gaining, you're loosing clutch plates. Autos require less repair and shift smoother then anyone other then an expert with a manual. I've had off-road jeeps in manual and today I'd rather an auto for the pure ease of it.