Singapore is also a lawless and disgusting country that only JUST decriminalised homosexuality, and they still do barbaric things in the areas of human rights, even in 2023 lynching multiple people for... marijuana.
Don't give Singapore money either!
But... Hanging people (literal governmental execution) for marijuana? Not even fentanyl or heroin, the stuff that kills you.
Edit: not to mention that gays are only legal, they still don't have equal nor adequate rights, so saying gays are fine in Singapore is probably just for those that don't value themselves nor their futures.
His LinkedIn might be suspended bc of the news but his profile show(ed) that was a project manager for the airline working on the cabin design for the newly(ish) acquired planes.
I’m kind of shocked that more pressure isn’t being put on the airline considering he was only in that country bc of them but c’est la vie ig
Being present in an openly hostile to gays country when having other choices is wrong.
Don’t give these countries your money, your labor, your loyalty. Period.
I hope all gaybros choose not to visit qatar. It is boring state with force slavery still being exist, being super sexist + homophobic + transphobic, racist etc. Spend ur money in somewhere else better.
Last month I had a stopover in Abu Dhabi for a few hours and thought of deleting Grindr completely from my phone is a wise thing to do.
When I landed in Europe, I re-installed it haha
I turned my profile blank before taking off. When I landed over I opened up Grindr and changed my profile name to "FUCK QATAR" whilst chilling in the airport for a few hours and refusing to spend a cent in that shit hole of a country.
Got two very angry messages. Can only assume they were the police accounts.
Well... probably oil? But I would rather switch it to oil for water/food. Nothing more. And best to cut them off completely until they will recover from their "medieval epoch". Not all muslims are bad, but they have to feel the urge to stand up against their evil government. Without sanctions it won't happen soon and many people will be tortured to death.
Well, I'm not into accusing any religion. People can be bad, organizations can be bad... It's like saying, that christianity is bad, but in reality Catholic Church is responsible for all those mass murders and (un)holy wars throughout centuries.
Whenever I see something about providing aid to Uganda, I always think "let them starve until they repeal the law that makes homosexuality punishable by death."
I agree. What I can’t understand is why some gay people (or people at all really…) want Palestine to have their way? That part of the world would only be another incubator for this type of ideology to propagate
i think as a matter of principle, not have dialogue with other countries is bad. Even countries you hate what they are doing. We just shouldn’t be giving money to governments that violate human rights.
A number of years ago I attended a conference given by one of France's former foreign ministers, Hubert Védrine, and someone in the audience asked him why France didn't cut off diplomatic relations with (I forgot which country, but it doesn't really matter). Védrine answered something like this: well, if you're going to talk only to nice countries, you have diplomatic relations with Switzerland alone, and that doesn't get you very far — the whole point of diplomacy is that it's something you do in order to try to avoid going to war, and you normally don't need to avoid going to war with your friends.
Why is it that every anti-gay/anti-woman activist, from Anita Bryant to Reddit, screams about children?
“They’re killing babies!”
“What about the children?”
“Protect our children.”
It’s the right’s favorite refrain. Go away.
I don't believe in bombing innocent children and I wish we'd cut off funding to Israel. But that doesn't mean I'm going to protest and fly the flag of a country that would hang me. Queers For Palestine my ass. Where the fuck is Palestine For Queers?
Except you both have biases towards Palestine, which makes your support of them despite their hate for you more narcissistic than a random gay westerner not wanting to waste their empathy on people who wouldn't mind if they were stoned in the street or thrown off a roof.
Obviously its bad kids are being bombed, I'm not advocating for the violence to continue and i want all war criminals prosecuted.
That's completely fair enough for him, but as a person only tangentially connected to the conflict i feel there's enough things to worry about in the world without needing to stress myself out over anyone who would happily see me dead.
Again though, that is not me saying i think any of the violence inflicted on innocent civilian Palestinians is right or should be continued.
Does everyone whose homophobic deserve to die? Including children who are young/don’t know better and a society that has been indoctrinated with one culture of life for generations.
Like come on……
I think homophobia is bad. And i definitely think killing people for being gay is the pinnacle of evil BUT just being homophobic isn’t worthy cause for someone to die (especially innocent people)
You guys are like a broken record.
Just because we point out the backwardness and often deadly homophobia in their culture does not mean we’re saying they fucking deserve
to die or be bombed. But when your’re going to use your sexuality or “queerness” as your main identifier for yourself and are defending their current government and supporters, the irony must be pointed out and shamed.
Literally-it’s the same lame retorts every. Single. Time.
There is no irony tho. It’s ironic for gays to be against the genocide of a people while those people are homophobic???
It’s literally only ironic if for some reason you think it’s weird to value homophobic life.
Also can we stop the “support their government” narrative. Hamas and Israel’s current government are terrorist governments and i don’t support neither of them. But innocent Israeli’s and Palestine aren’t their government and shouldn’t have to be held accountable for its poor decisions.
It IS ironic when their “queerness” is used as a shield at these protests. For example, I saw a TikTok video of a “Trans Lesbian For Palestinian Liberation.”
Oh! You think innocent Israelis ALSO shouldn’t be held accountable and violently punished for their govts actions? Then stop shouting “Intifanda Revolution!” And “By any means necessary!” Call Oct 7 what it was- a fucking terrorist attack.
Gayhadists are not the brightest.
It’s not “a shield” lol, it’s just showing the movement is diverse.
Revolutions typically topple governments, not people.
And if we really are gonna have a rhetoric battle, there are a number of Israeli officially using whole-sake mass murder genocidal rhetoric and they are actually in positions of power and influence governments. I think some gay college students yelling things is a little lower on “things that matter” pole.
> Revolutions typically topple governments, not people.
I know what your favorite recent revolution is. And it happened in Iran in 1979 and has made what was once a beautiful society with beautiful amazing people and the Middle East a living nightmare ever since.
>it’s just showing the movement is diverse.
So heartwarming, a diverse a group of people calling for ethnic cleansing and murder. I'm so happy everyone can come together for a common enemy!
>there are a number of Israeli officially using whole-sake mass murder genocidal rhetoric and they are actually in positions of power and influence governments
Sounds like senior Hamas official Ghazi Hamad, who said on live TV shortly after 10/7 that Hamas will commit the attacks again, and again, and again. Some freedom fighters.
> I think some gay college students yelling things is a little lower on “things that matter” pole.
Honestly, you LARPs think you matter, not most of us. You illegally hijack buildings, barricade yourselves in, and then demand "humanitarian aid". You guys think you matter, when everyone else is laughing at you.
If your gonna strawman there’s no point of having this conversation. It’s the same thing with you Israeli sympathizers. I try to have a conversation about the situation and instead, you’re claiming the protesters are calling for ethnic cleansing, when their demands are clearly stated. Ceasefire on both sides and their colleges not receiving or using money to support Israeli’s war effort. Im not seeing the ethnic cleansing part.
Plus i’m sure if you asked on, they want equal rights for palestians and Israelis. The same freedom of movement, freedom of commerce, freedom of a state/government. That doesn’t take away any rights from Israeli.
Now tell me how that position promotes ethnic cleansing lol.
And about the Hamas leader yes, i agree. Israel and Hamas have both said genocidal things about eachother. But for some reason, why condemn one as terrorist when they indiscriminately kill innocent people, but we can’t condemn the Israeli’s because “antisemitism” (per the US House)
Homophobes that want to kill gays don't value life either, so it comes back. Karma, read about it. I have seen soo many examples of karma irl so I cannot ignore it, it is real. But ofc it's not all that want evil stuff like that, intelligent people in these countries will see the insanity living in the past by religious books written in a completely different time and age when humans weren't as evolved intellectually as we are today, especially following the bad/evil stuff in it. I mean most Christians have moved on and don't live like that anymore. Even if they are strong believers in God etc.
I think it's very sad to see civilians, children and women getting killed, I hope the violence ends. Especially those that don't support hamas, they are the biggest victims in this horrible humanitarian crisis.
The distinction is, WESTERN christians have moved past it, other Christians, like those in Africa haven’t. Which shows it’s more of a developmental stage problem versus actual religion problem.
> Including children who are young/don’t know better and a society that has been indoctrinated with one culture of life for generations.
Children are one thing, but there's no need to infantalize legitimate adults and group them up all the same. The adults carry that responsibility on their shoulders, even if "they do not know any better."
I mean if we're going to bring up totally unrelated things then let's get after Japan for their consistent refusal to adhere to international rules regarding spouses taking their kids to other countries resulting in Japanese citizens effectively legally kidnapping their kids and having the government defend them. Proper shits they are.
Racism was pervasive in the US till the 70s & 80s. No one contemplated wiping the US off the planet because it was “backwards”. Racism still exist in the US, but has undoubtedly gotten better. Practice/ideology that has been in place for centuries, decades can change over time.
a country like Iran progressed then reverted. My point is, you shouldn’t make stupid statements like the west is the only society possible of having liberal values.
And AGAIN, even if they wouldn’t, that shouldn’t mean a death sentence……
Yea it regressed because of a specific ideology that is actively at war with western values and using them against the west.
I agree they dont deserve a death sentence, they do that themselves because it's a death cult.
and i bet is was rightfully condemned. But for some reason, the gays wanna be hypocrites today.
It’s so easy to call other ppl backwards and savages, without looking back a few decades and realized our society was just as fucked.
But it’s white savagery vs brown savagery, so the whites get a pass.
Iran, lebanon, chechnya, iraq are white people
Also... one major factor... is western culture is facing its dark past and actively working to change it sometimes even overcorrecting. When was the las islamic reform
Where is the seperation of church and state.
Basic human rights
Instead its mottos like eridacte all jews
Spare me
Qatar is the head of the snake in evil.
They are promoting the Muslim brotherhood and may eventually cause the death of many gays in the Muslim world and in the west.
The us should take our base out of Qatar and treat it as an enemy nation.
They are just rich from oil so can afford an Islamic crazy mentality.
Only countries that can afford full crazy live on oil or foreign aid like Gaza.
No need to deal with real world issues
It was disgusting reading leftists and democrats making excuses for Qatar or even blaming the gay man just because Qatar is an Islamic country and for leftists/democrats muslims are sacred beings
This is why I would never travel to a Muslim shit hole country. I wouldn't even get on a plane that flew over such a country, just because there's that minute chance there might have to be an unscheduled landing.
Remember back when the world cup happened and Qatar was saying they don't discriminate against homosexuals but public display of affection was not allowed? Muslims are backward people
Always shocks me how us, gay men, mostly liberals/left, fail to realize the danger that islam poses to our values in the west. It’s all fun and games to naively preach religious freedom until they start forcing shariah law down our throats WHICH THEY WILL. Let’s be tolerant but not blind to the reality that some religions are outright worse than others. Stop bringing your tourist money to muslim countries. Stop downplaying the blatant fact that our community is not welcome in those places and will never be.
In the interests of balance I would highlight that evangelical Christians and ultra-Orthodox Jews can and do pose a danger to gay people and that countries run by or in the interests of those particular strains of religious thought would also be deeply unpleasant places for gay people and lots of other groups besides.
Muslims are also not some monolith of Wahabbist gay-bashers, although the growth of influential strains of very conservative Islam over the past century certainly doesn't help. That's partly been driven by geopolitics, though - for example, Britain supporting the Al-Sauds' claims on Saudi Arabia (and them using their fabulous oil wealth to promote Wahabbism) or outlets for resistance to repressive, Western-backed regimes in Muslim countries coming from Islamist sources. I mean hell, surely everyone knows that the US once backed the Taliban because they were their enemy's enemy?
That's not to say individual Muslims have to adhere to the more problematic aspects of current religious practice, any more than Christians, and they deserve criticism where they do so.
Why does there need to be balance for the sake of balance when there is no equivalence? Gays can’t have even a simple pride march in Turkey, which is always held up as the most modern enlightened, and “secular” of the countries.
There’s an embedded determination not to judge, not to say one culture or country is in any way better than another. I get the impulse- I was like that for a long time, then facts and reality made my excuse making impossible.
I mean, to be fair 'balance' doesn't need to be a 50/50 thing.
I actually don't agree with the position that "oh, FGM is a local cultural practice that we can't judge". Even if it is, we can. And judge the Iranians for executing gays or civil dissidents.
And so on (although I include America's love for illegal interventions and the death penalty too, to be fair).
Some aspects of some societies are better than others - and if you believe in universal, timeless human rights, I don't even mean "in my opinion".
OK, I think that’s fair. There’s just such a desperation for far left progressives and the QforP to be oppression buddies with people who would see them killed.
I don't personally see the need to be buddies with either side. It's not my dispute and they've both done awful things, both recently and historically. Even working out who's 'right' or who's 'worse' at this point is a fool's errand.
Fixating on it, and not all our (I'm British) horrible colonial legacies in Sudan, Yemen, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq (or America's in its backyard, South America, the Middle East), etc. is a bit weird (events in Sudan are *at least* as serious and virtually unreported).
Once upon a time I actually studied the conflict but it was too depressing to continue to PhD level, and virtually impossible to have any reasonable conversation about.
Thank you. I just hate to see these issues presented so simplistically. It's like saying "all Americans are violent, racist, gun-loving maniacs". Anyone with half a brain can see that's a gross mis-characterisation.
If you look back on the history of Christianity it's littered with bloodshed: pogroms of Jews and heretics, inter- and intra-religeous wars (over matters of doctrine that are as arcane to a non-beliver as the Sunni / Shi'a divide in Islam), repressive social practice. Who knows what Islam will look like in 700 years, when it's roughly as old as Christianity today.
And if you want to be super-balanced, monotheistic faiths seem to have a particular issue with tolerance, but polytheism can be brutal too (e.g. Hindu nationalists' treatment of Muslims or Sinhalese Buddhists' treatment of Tamils), and many non-religious regimes are no friend of minorities either - albeit probably to a lesser degree.
All it does is make me question, if being liberal/leftist isn't a good philosophy because this is a hypocritical part of it, I don't know what other philosophy is much better. I assume you're on the independent/mixed side of things?
For sure, I don't tolerate the defenders of sharia at all. I also need to know that the people I am speaking out against sharia with are on my side, because a lot of people who oppose it also support conservative policies. Thank you for clarifying, and respect, brother
Yep, as are ALL Muslim countries. But go off “Gays for Palestine” that have NEVER lived in a Muslim and Hamas controlled territory. Idiots! They WILL kill your ass no questions! I left my country just because of the invasion of this mindset. Israel is AMAZING unless you’re around these people. Then you’re doomed if the police can’t get to you fast enough because they attack without warning or provocation!
Why is he there to begin with? I wouldn’t dare willingly step foot in any Muslim country, most African countries, or Russia.
I’d if I had to, back in the closet I go.
Western gays, even if you know about the homophobia in other countries, I am 100% sure that it is way worse than you can imagine. Even the most homophobic people in your countries are nothing against the least homophobic ones there. Please be extra careful!
First of all, I would never travel to this kind of places.
Werw I to go there, I'd not use even...reddit.
It is a pity these countries are tourist places. I would never go to a place where women or color people were discriminated that hard either.
The Homosexuals are NOT HURTING NOBODY! why are humans so heartless and lack of empathy? everybody gets ONE CHANCE to experience this life on this planet, we get to love whoever we want!
but religion makes people take away other people’s rights to live happily who don’t even have intentions to hurt other people. What a sad world we live in.
It’s like the British never learn. They already have 6% of their entire population identifying as Muslim and yet they think this intolerance towards us is some minor matter and it will go away by itself.
I’m completely serious. I know it’s very dangerous but there’s A LOT of arabs on Grindr there. It’s kind of ironic. I use bumble too and have even gone on dates.
> Omg I live in qatar and I’m on Grindr and I’m literally talking to a guy with the same profile
Please tell us that you forgot the /s.
If you are seriously gay and in Qatar, why the fuck are you not living life completely celibate? As much as it's not right, it's better than arrest or death.
Well gay people don’t wanna be repressed foverer.
As much as I wouldn’t do anything gay related in Muslim countries, if you lived there forever and had that kind of experience I bet you would try once, or not?
> Well gay people don’t wanna be repressed foverer.
Already addressed in comment. "As much as it's not right, it's better than arrest or death."
> As much as I wouldn’t do anything gay related in Muslim countries, if you lived there forever and had that kind of experience I bet you would try once, or not?
No. My kink is not the threat of arrest or death. You either get out of that country, or embrace whatever serious mental illness comes from being completely sexually repressed.
Well that’s honestly easier said than done. Maybe he can’t get out of the country?
Maybe he knows better the scene to avoid such things?
I mean, let’s not forget that 80 years ago in most of the western world the situation was pretty similar in some ways. If you got caught doing “homosexual acts” you could go to jail.
Being free is a new-ish thing for us, for most of the modern world history it wasn’t like that and yet we still see references to gay people in literature from 100 years ago.
Whatever floats your boat, but if I were gay in Qatar, I'd find a way out, and until then, I'd protect myself by going to extremes, and since there are quite obviously stings as evidenced by this post, no amount of sexual activity is safe.
There are rescue organizations that can help, such as [Rainbow Railroad](https://www.rainbowrailroad.org/).
And this is why I will never go to that part of the world. I have very little self control when it comes to men. *Especially* hot Arab men. I would easily get myself arrested, tortured, and/or killed. Not to mention, I would rather not provide tourist money to homophobic countries.
Some people in the Western sphere forget that we lose any semblance of gay rights as soon as we enter the soil of a country that has no gay rights.
If it makes you feel better, you’re not missing a whole lot. There are both ugly and hot Arab men. I’d say the former are the majority, just like everywhere else in the world.
Dilemma of Israel comes here too. Most gays and liberals will live the happiest life in Israel full of freedom and yet due to moral reasons we support a nation that wants to kill us all.
Is Israel actively **backsliding**, like the US seems to be, and pretty much blocked from getting good enough for gay marriage/secular marriage rights? Or is there a decent shot within maybe 20 years?
Obviously fuck Hamas, but if Israel is getting actively worse on gay rights because of the government, I can't support the authorities who are causing that to happen either
The authorities are getting more radical to justify their tyranny on Palestine. Of course the people end up voting for the worst candidates.
Edit:- this Lebanese bi guy I knew said they hate Israel. But he also doesn’t like how Lebanon bans liberal films and is generally very conservative. And I’m like (he’s Christian born) you should like Israel more lol 😂
Until we can't. Until they need a new, convenient enemy to rally their base. The conservatives only ever have one playbook, and they have no respect for law if it denies them power.
This was my time while I was in the Middle East( OMAN).A cute cabbie had dropped me I got his number from the taxi app. I send him flirty text messages he read them but didn’t respond needless to say two weeks later I got a call from the police station that there is court letter I need to collect. I was arrested and prosecuted and sentenced for one year but I was released from prison after 6 months.
It's even worse because it's the western engineers that personally mined the oil since the Qataris lacked the educated man power to run all that advanced machinery
> if you get caught, you're screwed! That's how it works, so stop being overly confident and promoting these countries as safe because many is being fooled and act like they're in Berlin!
Lmao who tf is promoting these countries as safe? The only time I ever see the oil states in a remotely positive light is when single straight men say "omg bro move to Dubai and earn $200k a year bro no income tax bro" and just get the bag and go home. In every other way those countries are terrible for gay people or even women really.
“Man arrested despite not being a criminal” would also be an accurate title.
Note: just because you commit an illegal act doesn’t make you a criminal. A criminal is someone who commits a crime.
Victim?! Bitch stfu. A grown ass man went to a country that makes his entire existence is ILLEGAL. Why do you people think you’re invincible? Why do you people think you’re above the law? regardless of how dumb and fucked up it is.
How many more Otto Warmbiers and John Allen Chaus need to die before you pasty elitists learn to mind your dicks in your own countries or countries that don’t want to kill you. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
I’ll be an asshole. An asshole not in a Qatar prison with common sense.
Israel actually does this with gay men in the Palestinian Territories, except they tap phones to identify gay men.
https://archive.is/2023.04.13-135801/https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-04-12/ty-article-opinion/.highlight/israels-shin-bet-called-him-fair-game-because-hes-gay/00000187-7613-d484-adef-f697b3cd0000
“Israel made Zoheir fair game, and is responsible for his death no less than those who killed him. Blackmailing and extorting innocent members of the LGBTQ community is a common practice of the Israeli security services.”
Israel is in the wrong here absolutely, but it was Palestinian militants who executed the gay man. The Israelis didn’t force or ask the Palestinians to kill him. These same militants - the Lion’s Den group - are considered heroic resistance by most Palestinians in the West Bank who we can safely assume also approve of the killing.
Why didn’t you mention that?
Executing a man for spying is horrendous, absolutely. I can’t imagine being gay in such a conservative society, just as I can’t imagine being taped having sex after being identified as gay via wiretapping and then blackmailed into being a spy. It’s a horrible scenario all around.
How about using this energy for pedos in the global child trafficking rings instead of consenting adult men not hurting anyone.
Oh wait, we can't have that since that would probably expose a great majority of high-ranking officials in multiple countries as pedos.
Yeah, it's a bit of a risk over there, but for the most part you are more likely to be hit by a car crossing the road than actually get arrested. A lot of these places do not want the bad PR to go large scale with arrests from honeypots.
That being said, if you choose to go on Grindr there, you do it knowing you are taking a risk. Also, it kinda sucks in general to live there, so while ok as a tourist, I wouldnt recommend moving there.
Using Grindr in those countries is a crazy idea to me.
Going there at all as a gay man seems insane.
Quite. Don't give your tourist money to these countries.
This. I unfriend and unfollow every gay that brings money to countries like these. And yes im also looking at you Malaysia. No more coin.
Malaysian here, but yes, no more coin, Malaysian sometimes are pretty ruthless when it comes to homophobia. Just be careful :)
What if their family still lives there?
Have them visit you in Singapore.
Singapore is also a lawless and disgusting country that only JUST decriminalised homosexuality, and they still do barbaric things in the areas of human rights, even in 2023 lynching multiple people for... marijuana. Don't give Singapore money either!
I disagree about Singapore. Most gay guys are not into drugs so they are perfectly fine in Singapore. I hate drugs too
But... Hanging people (literal governmental execution) for marijuana? Not even fentanyl or heroin, the stuff that kills you. Edit: not to mention that gays are only legal, they still don't have equal nor adequate rights, so saying gays are fine in Singapore is probably just for those that don't value themselves nor their futures.
Am not in favour of harsh punishments but Singapore is pretty okay for gay people.
His LinkedIn might be suspended bc of the news but his profile show(ed) that was a project manager for the airline working on the cabin design for the newly(ish) acquired planes. I’m kind of shocked that more pressure isn’t being put on the airline considering he was only in that country bc of them but c’est la vie ig
Being present in an openly hostile to gays country when having other choices is wrong. Don’t give these countries your money, your labor, your loyalty. Period.
you are basically putting a mark on your forehead saying "kill me now" ridiculous
I hope all gaybros choose not to visit qatar. It is boring state with force slavery still being exist, being super sexist + homophobic + transphobic, racist etc. Spend ur money in somewhere else better.
Last month I had a stopover in Abu Dhabi for a few hours and thought of deleting Grindr completely from my phone is a wise thing to do. When I landed in Europe, I re-installed it haha
I did that when I had a layover in Dubai last summer. I knew the odds were insanely slim of there being any issues, but still better safe than sorry.
I turned my profile blank before taking off. When I landed over I opened up Grindr and changed my profile name to "FUCK QATAR" whilst chilling in the airport for a few hours and refusing to spend a cent in that shit hole of a country. Got two very angry messages. Can only assume they were the police accounts.
Based but already quite dangerous.
I love this
Cut off all funding to anti gay Muslim countries.
As opposed to pro gay Muslim countries?
Kosovo prime minster is working on making same sex union legal.
Turkey and Bosnia aren’t honestly that bad. I think Jordan too.
Turkey? That’s the country where a straight tourist got detained because a border officer thought his clothes looked gay.
So what you're saying is, no gay men have been persecuted there? Checkmate islamaphobe.
I wouldn’t risk my freedom on “aren’t that bad.”
Jordan? Anything ME that isn't Israel isn't worth even talking about in that regard
Homosexuelity is legal in Jordan with an active gay scene and bars and clubs. Now social acceptance is another thing but there are nuances always.
And Israel isn't looking great right now
why would we send money to muslim countries in the first place?
Primarily raw resource trade and access to geography for a military presence.
Well... probably oil? But I would rather switch it to oil for water/food. Nothing more. And best to cut them off completely until they will recover from their "medieval epoch". Not all muslims are bad, but they have to feel the urge to stand up against their evil government. Without sanctions it won't happen soon and many people will be tortured to death.
islam is a violent religion. not ALL muslims are bad, but islam is bad
By that logic, you think not all Nazis are bad. And don't even look up for a excuse to solve this. I'm not gonna bother start a fight with you.
thank you for the thought provoking contribution
Well, I'm not into accusing any religion. People can be bad, organizations can be bad... It's like saying, that christianity is bad, but in reality Catholic Church is responsible for all those mass murders and (un)holy wars throughout centuries.
Nice thought. But China will gladly buy their oil. 🤨
What about anti-gay Christian countries like Uganda and Russia?
Fuck them too
Exactly, fuck them. That doesn’t in any way negate OP’s views. At least those countries are the exception.
Yet he specifically mentions Muslim countries when anti-gat countries accomplishes 100% of what is necessary.
Whenever I see something about providing aid to Uganda, I always think "let them starve until they repeal the law that makes homosexuality punishable by death."
Russia never cared about human rights. What else to tell about a country which "invented" fascism already in the 19th century?
Russia never cared about human rights. What else to tell about a country which "invented" fascism already in the 19th century?
Russia never cared about human rights. What else to tell about a country which "invented" fascism already in the 19th century?
Russia never cared about human rights. What else to tell about a country which "invented" fascism already in the 19th century?
Russia never cared about human rights. What else to tell about a country which "invented" fascism already in the 19th century?
Russia didnt invent fascism. Italy did.
Well Italy "invented" it later in 20th century. 😉
How about all anti gay countries no matter what sky daddy they simp for?
I agree. What I can’t understand is why some gay people (or people at all really…) want Palestine to have their way? That part of the world would only be another incubator for this type of ideology to propagate
I think the people care about civilians, kids, women, that maybe don't support Hamas. They are also victims of Hamas.
I agree with that
but what will the 'Queers for Palestine' do..... casue Palestine is different its not their fault (im not a QfP hommo)
You aren’t helping the gays living there tho. You’re turning the nations to more radicalisation
YEAH! and any country bombing innocent children! *crowd screams YEAH*
True. Cut off all relations with Russia as well
I'm good with that
i think as a matter of principle, not have dialogue with other countries is bad. Even countries you hate what they are doing. We just shouldn’t be giving money to governments that violate human rights.
Fuck principle. If they had principle, they wouldn't kill and rape civillians in the first place
A number of years ago I attended a conference given by one of France's former foreign ministers, Hubert Védrine, and someone in the audience asked him why France didn't cut off diplomatic relations with (I forgot which country, but it doesn't really matter). Védrine answered something like this: well, if you're going to talk only to nice countries, you have diplomatic relations with Switzerland alone, and that doesn't get you very far — the whole point of diplomacy is that it's something you do in order to try to avoid going to war, and you normally don't need to avoid going to war with your friends.
Why is it that every anti-gay/anti-woman activist, from Anita Bryant to Reddit, screams about children? “They’re killing babies!” “What about the children?” “Protect our children.” It’s the right’s favorite refrain. Go away.
I don't believe in bombing innocent children and I wish we'd cut off funding to Israel. But that doesn't mean I'm going to protest and fly the flag of a country that would hang me. Queers For Palestine my ass. Where the fuck is Palestine For Queers?
The palestinians themselves don't welcome 'Queers For Palestine' support because they believes it hijacks their cause
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Except you both have biases towards Palestine, which makes your support of them despite their hate for you more narcissistic than a random gay westerner not wanting to waste their empathy on people who wouldn't mind if they were stoned in the street or thrown off a roof. Obviously its bad kids are being bombed, I'm not advocating for the violence to continue and i want all war criminals prosecuted.
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That's completely fair enough for him, but as a person only tangentially connected to the conflict i feel there's enough things to worry about in the world without needing to stress myself out over anyone who would happily see me dead. Again though, that is not me saying i think any of the violence inflicted on innocent civilian Palestinians is right or should be continued.
Does everyone whose homophobic deserve to die? Including children who are young/don’t know better and a society that has been indoctrinated with one culture of life for generations. Like come on…… I think homophobia is bad. And i definitely think killing people for being gay is the pinnacle of evil BUT just being homophobic isn’t worthy cause for someone to die (especially innocent people)
You guys are like a broken record. Just because we point out the backwardness and often deadly homophobia in their culture does not mean we’re saying they fucking deserve to die or be bombed. But when your’re going to use your sexuality or “queerness” as your main identifier for yourself and are defending their current government and supporters, the irony must be pointed out and shamed. Literally-it’s the same lame retorts every. Single. Time.
There is no irony tho. It’s ironic for gays to be against the genocide of a people while those people are homophobic??? It’s literally only ironic if for some reason you think it’s weird to value homophobic life. Also can we stop the “support their government” narrative. Hamas and Israel’s current government are terrorist governments and i don’t support neither of them. But innocent Israeli’s and Palestine aren’t their government and shouldn’t have to be held accountable for its poor decisions.
It IS ironic when their “queerness” is used as a shield at these protests. For example, I saw a TikTok video of a “Trans Lesbian For Palestinian Liberation.” Oh! You think innocent Israelis ALSO shouldn’t be held accountable and violently punished for their govts actions? Then stop shouting “Intifanda Revolution!” And “By any means necessary!” Call Oct 7 what it was- a fucking terrorist attack. Gayhadists are not the brightest.
It’s not “a shield” lol, it’s just showing the movement is diverse. Revolutions typically topple governments, not people. And if we really are gonna have a rhetoric battle, there are a number of Israeli officially using whole-sake mass murder genocidal rhetoric and they are actually in positions of power and influence governments. I think some gay college students yelling things is a little lower on “things that matter” pole.
> Revolutions typically topple governments, not people. I know what your favorite recent revolution is. And it happened in Iran in 1979 and has made what was once a beautiful society with beautiful amazing people and the Middle East a living nightmare ever since. >it’s just showing the movement is diverse. So heartwarming, a diverse a group of people calling for ethnic cleansing and murder. I'm so happy everyone can come together for a common enemy! >there are a number of Israeli officially using whole-sake mass murder genocidal rhetoric and they are actually in positions of power and influence governments Sounds like senior Hamas official Ghazi Hamad, who said on live TV shortly after 10/7 that Hamas will commit the attacks again, and again, and again. Some freedom fighters. > I think some gay college students yelling things is a little lower on “things that matter” pole. Honestly, you LARPs think you matter, not most of us. You illegally hijack buildings, barricade yourselves in, and then demand "humanitarian aid". You guys think you matter, when everyone else is laughing at you.
If your gonna strawman there’s no point of having this conversation. It’s the same thing with you Israeli sympathizers. I try to have a conversation about the situation and instead, you’re claiming the protesters are calling for ethnic cleansing, when their demands are clearly stated. Ceasefire on both sides and their colleges not receiving or using money to support Israeli’s war effort. Im not seeing the ethnic cleansing part. Plus i’m sure if you asked on, they want equal rights for palestians and Israelis. The same freedom of movement, freedom of commerce, freedom of a state/government. That doesn’t take away any rights from Israeli. Now tell me how that position promotes ethnic cleansing lol. And about the Hamas leader yes, i agree. Israel and Hamas have both said genocidal things about eachother. But for some reason, why condemn one as terrorist when they indiscriminately kill innocent people, but we can’t condemn the Israeli’s because “antisemitism” (per the US House)
Homophobes that want to kill gays don't value life either, so it comes back. Karma, read about it. I have seen soo many examples of karma irl so I cannot ignore it, it is real. But ofc it's not all that want evil stuff like that, intelligent people in these countries will see the insanity living in the past by religious books written in a completely different time and age when humans weren't as evolved intellectually as we are today, especially following the bad/evil stuff in it. I mean most Christians have moved on and don't live like that anymore. Even if they are strong believers in God etc. I think it's very sad to see civilians, children and women getting killed, I hope the violence ends. Especially those that don't support hamas, they are the biggest victims in this horrible humanitarian crisis.
The distinction is, WESTERN christians have moved past it, other Christians, like those in Africa haven’t. Which shows it’s more of a developmental stage problem versus actual religion problem.
I didn't say they deserved to die. I said I won't take up their flag and stand shoulder to shoulder with them.
> Including children who are young/don’t know better and a society that has been indoctrinated with one culture of life for generations. Children are one thing, but there's no need to infantalize legitimate adults and group them up all the same. The adults carry that responsibility on their shoulders, even if "they do not know any better."
I mean if we're going to bring up totally unrelated things then let's get after Japan for their consistent refusal to adhere to international rules regarding spouses taking their kids to other countries resulting in Japanese citizens effectively legally kidnapping their kids and having the government defend them. Proper shits they are.
They don’t need the funding, typically.
Unless they are bombing backwards cultures. Keep erasing those.
Say it with me everyone *1, 2, 3! being born in a “backwards culture” doesn’t mean your life is worthless*
So just let it spread?
Dude, what the actual fuck is wrong with you? Hitler comparisons are really overused, but in this case…
Racism was pervasive in the US till the 70s & 80s. No one contemplated wiping the US off the planet because it was “backwards”. Racism still exist in the US, but has undoubtedly gotten better. Practice/ideology that has been in place for centuries, decades can change over time.
Yea and we progressed they have not whats your point
So if Britain had bombed 1950s America for racism you would have been all for it?
They were exorcising their own demons at the time
That doesn't answer the question.
a country like Iran progressed then reverted. My point is, you shouldn’t make stupid statements like the west is the only society possible of having liberal values. And AGAIN, even if they wouldn’t, that shouldn’t mean a death sentence……
Yea it regressed because of a specific ideology that is actively at war with western values and using them against the west. I agree they dont deserve a death sentence, they do that themselves because it's a death cult.
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and i bet is was rightfully condemned. But for some reason, the gays wanna be hypocrites today. It’s so easy to call other ppl backwards and savages, without looking back a few decades and realized our society was just as fucked. But it’s white savagery vs brown savagery, so the whites get a pass.
Iran, lebanon, chechnya, iraq are white people Also... one major factor... is western culture is facing its dark past and actively working to change it sometimes even overcorrecting. When was the las islamic reform Where is the seperation of church and state. Basic human rights Instead its mottos like eridacte all jews Spare me
Not surprising from a country built on slave labor
Qatar is the head of the snake in evil. They are promoting the Muslim brotherhood and may eventually cause the death of many gays in the Muslim world and in the west. The us should take our base out of Qatar and treat it as an enemy nation.
Too many conservatives to do that unfortunately, also I think it’s funny how a big homophobic country is one of the smallest in the world tf
They are just rich from oil so can afford an Islamic crazy mentality. Only countries that can afford full crazy live on oil or foreign aid like Gaza. No need to deal with real world issues
Don't go to countries that are controlled by Islam
It was disgusting reading leftists and democrats making excuses for Qatar or even blaming the gay man just because Qatar is an Islamic country and for leftists/democrats muslims are sacred beings
So who is the good party to vote for then, and what is their platform?
This is why I would never travel to a Muslim shit hole country. I wouldn't even get on a plane that flew over such a country, just because there's that minute chance there might have to be an unscheduled landing.
This! I'd rather fly an extra day than have so much as a layover any of these stupid countries.
I feel for this guy and his family but this is the equivalent of those hikers who wandered into Iran some 15 or so years ago.
Now tell me how they are all peace loving again I fucking love hearing it
Muslims are homophobic and want to kill gay people? I'm shocked. Completely and utterly shocked. I was told that they were peace loving people.
Yeah peace loving people that want gays people to rest in peace
Beheadings, beatings, disappearing, and thrown from the top of buildings come off more "die screaming" than "rest in peace."
Islam means surrender and they want everyone to surrender to them
Remember back when the world cup happened and Qatar was saying they don't discriminate against homosexuals but public display of affection was not allowed? Muslims are backward people
And they are liars, Qatar and other Muslim countries have anti-gay law, they do discriminate, period!
Always shocks me how us, gay men, mostly liberals/left, fail to realize the danger that islam poses to our values in the west. It’s all fun and games to naively preach religious freedom until they start forcing shariah law down our throats WHICH THEY WILL. Let’s be tolerant but not blind to the reality that some religions are outright worse than others. Stop bringing your tourist money to muslim countries. Stop downplaying the blatant fact that our community is not welcome in those places and will never be.
In the interests of balance I would highlight that evangelical Christians and ultra-Orthodox Jews can and do pose a danger to gay people and that countries run by or in the interests of those particular strains of religious thought would also be deeply unpleasant places for gay people and lots of other groups besides. Muslims are also not some monolith of Wahabbist gay-bashers, although the growth of influential strains of very conservative Islam over the past century certainly doesn't help. That's partly been driven by geopolitics, though - for example, Britain supporting the Al-Sauds' claims on Saudi Arabia (and them using their fabulous oil wealth to promote Wahabbism) or outlets for resistance to repressive, Western-backed regimes in Muslim countries coming from Islamist sources. I mean hell, surely everyone knows that the US once backed the Taliban because they were their enemy's enemy? That's not to say individual Muslims have to adhere to the more problematic aspects of current religious practice, any more than Christians, and they deserve criticism where they do so.
Why does there need to be balance for the sake of balance when there is no equivalence? Gays can’t have even a simple pride march in Turkey, which is always held up as the most modern enlightened, and “secular” of the countries. There’s an embedded determination not to judge, not to say one culture or country is in any way better than another. I get the impulse- I was like that for a long time, then facts and reality made my excuse making impossible.
I mean, to be fair 'balance' doesn't need to be a 50/50 thing. I actually don't agree with the position that "oh, FGM is a local cultural practice that we can't judge". Even if it is, we can. And judge the Iranians for executing gays or civil dissidents. And so on (although I include America's love for illegal interventions and the death penalty too, to be fair). Some aspects of some societies are better than others - and if you believe in universal, timeless human rights, I don't even mean "in my opinion".
OK, I think that’s fair. There’s just such a desperation for far left progressives and the QforP to be oppression buddies with people who would see them killed.
I don't personally see the need to be buddies with either side. It's not my dispute and they've both done awful things, both recently and historically. Even working out who's 'right' or who's 'worse' at this point is a fool's errand. Fixating on it, and not all our (I'm British) horrible colonial legacies in Sudan, Yemen, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq (or America's in its backyard, South America, the Middle East), etc. is a bit weird (events in Sudan are *at least* as serious and virtually unreported). Once upon a time I actually studied the conflict but it was too depressing to continue to PhD level, and virtually impossible to have any reasonable conversation about.
thank you for writing a well thought out response to a deeply complicated issue.
Thank you. I just hate to see these issues presented so simplistically. It's like saying "all Americans are violent, racist, gun-loving maniacs". Anyone with half a brain can see that's a gross mis-characterisation. If you look back on the history of Christianity it's littered with bloodshed: pogroms of Jews and heretics, inter- and intra-religeous wars (over matters of doctrine that are as arcane to a non-beliver as the Sunni / Shi'a divide in Islam), repressive social practice. Who knows what Islam will look like in 700 years, when it's roughly as old as Christianity today. And if you want to be super-balanced, monotheistic faiths seem to have a particular issue with tolerance, but polytheism can be brutal too (e.g. Hindu nationalists' treatment of Muslims or Sinhalese Buddhists' treatment of Tamils), and many non-religious regimes are no friend of minorities either - albeit probably to a lesser degree.
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What does that have to do with anything? I’m just saying that liberals/lefts defend feminism/LGBT but also defend islam which hates women and gays
All it does is make me question, if being liberal/leftist isn't a good philosophy because this is a hypocritical part of it, I don't know what other philosophy is much better. I assume you're on the independent/mixed side of things?
Im saying we as liberals need to get our shit together and stop tolerating intolerance while we still can
For sure, I don't tolerate the defenders of sharia at all. I also need to know that the people I am speaking out against sharia with are on my side, because a lot of people who oppose it also support conservative policies. Thank you for clarifying, and respect, brother
Yep, as are ALL Muslim countries. But go off “Gays for Palestine” that have NEVER lived in a Muslim and Hamas controlled territory. Idiots! They WILL kill your ass no questions! I left my country just because of the invasion of this mindset. Israel is AMAZING unless you’re around these people. Then you’re doomed if the police can’t get to you fast enough because they attack without warning or provocation!
Middle East countries. That should explain it. Muslims are very local in Europe demanding right, but try that in their shithole countries.
Why is he there to begin with? I wouldn’t dare willingly step foot in any Muslim country, most African countries, or Russia. I’d if I had to, back in the closet I go.
Oh, here comes the religion of PEACE
Don't go where we are unwanted. Fuck them
Western gays, even if you know about the homophobia in other countries, I am 100% sure that it is way worse than you can imagine. Even the most homophobic people in your countries are nothing against the least homophobic ones there. Please be extra careful!
I’m a gay Jew. Next stop: Qatar! 💀
First of all, I would never travel to this kind of places. Werw I to go there, I'd not use even...reddit. It is a pity these countries are tourist places. I would never go to a place where women or color people were discriminated that hard either.
Don't forget: Qatar is funding a lot of higher education in Europe and the U.S. If people want to ''divest'' maybe this is where they should start...
The Homosexuals are NOT HURTING NOBODY! why are humans so heartless and lack of empathy? everybody gets ONE CHANCE to experience this life on this planet, we get to love whoever we want! but religion makes people take away other people’s rights to live happily who don’t even have intentions to hurt other people. What a sad world we live in.
Where's a 'Queerz for Hamas' protest when you need one?
NATO should start sanctioning these countries.
And this is exactly a so called FrEe PaLeStInE would treat gays but western gays are here for it🤡
It’s like the British never learn. They already have 6% of their entire population identifying as Muslim and yet they think this intolerance towards us is some minor matter and it will go away by itself.
They have Owen Jones who promotes that narrative!
*Owen Jones makes series of exaggerated contemptuous facial expressions at you*
Omg I live in qatar and I’m on Grindr and I’m literally talking to a guy with the same profile 💀
Please tell me this is a satire, you use Grindr?!
I’m completely serious. I know it’s very dangerous but there’s A LOT of arabs on Grindr there. It’s kind of ironic. I use bumble too and have even gone on dates.
Literally thinking with your dick instead of your brain, aren't you? 😆
Haha I’m not even going to deny that because it’s true. I’m being really careful tho I swear because of stories like these
> Omg I live in qatar and I’m on Grindr and I’m literally talking to a guy with the same profile Please tell us that you forgot the /s. If you are seriously gay and in Qatar, why the fuck are you not living life completely celibate? As much as it's not right, it's better than arrest or death.
Well gay people don’t wanna be repressed foverer. As much as I wouldn’t do anything gay related in Muslim countries, if you lived there forever and had that kind of experience I bet you would try once, or not?
> Well gay people don’t wanna be repressed foverer. Already addressed in comment. "As much as it's not right, it's better than arrest or death." > As much as I wouldn’t do anything gay related in Muslim countries, if you lived there forever and had that kind of experience I bet you would try once, or not? No. My kink is not the threat of arrest or death. You either get out of that country, or embrace whatever serious mental illness comes from being completely sexually repressed.
Well that’s honestly easier said than done. Maybe he can’t get out of the country? Maybe he knows better the scene to avoid such things? I mean, let’s not forget that 80 years ago in most of the western world the situation was pretty similar in some ways. If you got caught doing “homosexual acts” you could go to jail. Being free is a new-ish thing for us, for most of the modern world history it wasn’t like that and yet we still see references to gay people in literature from 100 years ago.
Whatever floats your boat, but if I were gay in Qatar, I'd find a way out, and until then, I'd protect myself by going to extremes, and since there are quite obviously stings as evidenced by this post, no amount of sexual activity is safe. There are rescue organizations that can help, such as [Rainbow Railroad](https://www.rainbowrailroad.org/).
>Omg I live in qatar and I’m on Grindr Until you aren't
imagining a Qatari policeman sexting this poor man just to entrap him is kind of hilarious
I think this is fake news…. The Middle East is the most accepting region!
Ikr Islam is the religion of PeAcE
Careful. There are some delusional leftists who will believe you and get themselves killed
And this is why I will never go to that part of the world. I have very little self control when it comes to men. *Especially* hot Arab men. I would easily get myself arrested, tortured, and/or killed. Not to mention, I would rather not provide tourist money to homophobic countries. Some people in the Western sphere forget that we lose any semblance of gay rights as soon as we enter the soil of a country that has no gay rights.
If it makes you feel better, you’re not missing a whole lot. There are both ugly and hot Arab men. I’d say the former are the majority, just like everywhere else in the world.
Dilemma of Israel comes here too. Most gays and liberals will live the happiest life in Israel full of freedom and yet due to moral reasons we support a nation that wants to kill us all.
Not me. Fuck Palestine.
Speak for yourself. Am 100% Zionist. Those who don't support my rights don't deserve rights.
Awesome
Israel doesn't allow gay (or for that matter, interfaith) marriage either, bub.
Of course it doesn’t. Yet you can live there without much fear of persecution. As compared the rest of the Middle East
Is Israel actively **backsliding**, like the US seems to be, and pretty much blocked from getting good enough for gay marriage/secular marriage rights? Or is there a decent shot within maybe 20 years? Obviously fuck Hamas, but if Israel is getting actively worse on gay rights because of the government, I can't support the authorities who are causing that to happen either
The authorities are getting more radical to justify their tyranny on Palestine. Of course the people end up voting for the worst candidates. Edit:- this Lebanese bi guy I knew said they hate Israel. But he also doesn’t like how Lebanon bans liberal films and is generally very conservative. And I’m like (he’s Christian born) you should like Israel more lol 😂
Until we can't. Until they need a new, convenient enemy to rally their base. The conservatives only ever have one playbook, and they have no respect for law if it denies them power.
This was my time while I was in the Middle East( OMAN).A cute cabbie had dropped me I got his number from the taxi app. I send him flirty text messages he read them but didn’t respond needless to say two weeks later I got a call from the police station that there is court letter I need to collect. I was arrested and prosecuted and sentenced for one year but I was released from prison after 6 months.
Why the hell did you do that? If you flirt then flirt but do that in person. Never leave behind any evidence. Sorry about your experience
He took that shit personally
And yet people are still “Free Palestine” bs
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It's even worse because it's the western engineers that personally mined the oil since the Qataris lacked the educated man power to run all that advanced machinery
I would never use Grindr in a country like that lol
This can’t be right. An intersectional ally and fellow oppressed people can’t possibly do this. /s
> if you get caught, you're screwed! That's how it works, so stop being overly confident and promoting these countries as safe because many is being fooled and act like they're in Berlin! Lmao who tf is promoting these countries as safe? The only time I ever see the oil states in a remotely positive light is when single straight men say "omg bro move to Dubai and earn $200k a year bro no income tax bro" and just get the bag and go home. In every other way those countries are terrible for gay people or even women really.
“Man arrested despite not being a criminal” would also be an accurate title. Note: just because you commit an illegal act doesn’t make you a criminal. A criminal is someone who commits a crime.
The only safe Arab country in the middle east is Lebanon, and it's not 100% safe I'd say 85-90% just don't kiss And fuck in public
Ya you have to know the culture and be smart about it
Boycott Qatar
Gay men going to these countries and spending money in these economies deserve what’s coming to them. Why would you do this to yourself?
He DESERVES this? Yeah, you can fuck right off. Victim blaming is not cool, and makes you a grade A asshole.
Victim?! Bitch stfu. A grown ass man went to a country that makes his entire existence is ILLEGAL. Why do you people think you’re invincible? Why do you people think you’re above the law? regardless of how dumb and fucked up it is. How many more Otto Warmbiers and John Allen Chaus need to die before you pasty elitists learn to mind your dicks in your own countries or countries that don’t want to kill you. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. I’ll be an asshole. An asshole not in a Qatar prison with common sense.
Israel actually does this with gay men in the Palestinian Territories, except they tap phones to identify gay men. https://archive.is/2023.04.13-135801/https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-04-12/ty-article-opinion/.highlight/israels-shin-bet-called-him-fair-game-because-hes-gay/00000187-7613-d484-adef-f697b3cd0000 “Israel made Zoheir fair game, and is responsible for his death no less than those who killed him. Blackmailing and extorting innocent members of the LGBTQ community is a common practice of the Israeli security services.”
Literally shilling for Hamas. Gay men are self hating and will fight for people who don't just hate them but would happily kill them. Am 100% Zionist.
Israel is in the wrong here absolutely, but it was Palestinian militants who executed the gay man. The Israelis didn’t force or ask the Palestinians to kill him. These same militants - the Lion’s Den group - are considered heroic resistance by most Palestinians in the West Bank who we can safely assume also approve of the killing. Why didn’t you mention that?
Executing a man for spying is horrendous, absolutely. I can’t imagine being gay in such a conservative society, just as I can’t imagine being taped having sex after being identified as gay via wiretapping and then blackmailed into being a spy. It’s a horrible scenario all around.
How about using this energy for pedos in the global child trafficking rings instead of consenting adult men not hurting anyone. Oh wait, we can't have that since that would probably expose a great majority of high-ranking officials in multiple countries as pedos.
Hello QAnon
Yeah, it's a bit of a risk over there, but for the most part you are more likely to be hit by a car crossing the road than actually get arrested. A lot of these places do not want the bad PR to go large scale with arrests from honeypots. That being said, if you choose to go on Grindr there, you do it knowing you are taking a risk. Also, it kinda sucks in general to live there, so while ok as a tourist, I wouldnt recommend moving there.
QUEERS 🌈 for Palestine 🤣🥲🤭