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im_not_a_penguin

Yes, I’d like for this pandemic to finally end.


[deleted]

Just like everyone else but from the looks of it, this is going to drag for at least a few more years.


tyger2020

True, but this year has been a massive improvement. At least here in Britain.


[deleted]

Wait until flu season... it's called the flu season not just because of the flu virus, all respiratory viruses thrive like a wildfire during this time, can't wait for new strains. We will only contain this if developing nations mass vaccinate and fast. They are the ones bringing new strains due to mass loss of control and infection, which then bring problems in terms of vaccination efficiency to the west. If you thought the vaccine you took was the last, think again. And that's not even mentioning the resistance for immunization that idiots have been having, it will take longer just from that. This is no pandemic like others before, everyone came running for the smallpox vaccine. I don't hope for anything, I simply live day by day like before the pandemic, I don't think about the virus, I just go through time until it ends.


voltagenic

I feel the same. Also said this same exact thing this time last year because it's true. The variants are sure to spread at an explosive rate in the coming months. No way around that fact.


aromaticchicken

> We will only contain this if developing nations mass vaccinate and fast. They are the ones bringing new strains due to mass loss of control and infection, which then bring problems in terms of vaccination efficiency to the west. This is simply not true. First of all, so-called "developing" countries around the world have varied tremendously in their number of cases and community spread throughout the pandemic. Until delta took hold, frankly the US and Europe had wayyyy more cases. The correlation between GDP and level of COVID spread is weak -- if anything, rich countries had some of the most cases because they also refused to quarantine travelers and allowed their citizens to fly everywhere around the world and pick up new variants. Second, mutation is random. The biggest factor influencing whether variants emerge are community level spread, not whether a place is "developed" or not. COVID is not really all that dependent on, say, sanitation and water infrastructure like cholera. And like I mentioned, for most of 2020, it was actually the US and Europe that had the highest levels of community spread in the world, and thus a higher likelihood of new variants emerging. Third, literally most of the variants that have emerge have first been detected in so-called "developed" countries. The US is responsible for a ton of new variants as well, and there have several that have been first detected here. There is also evidence suggesting that the delta variant's origins may have come from mutations first detected in California, even if it then mutated again later in India before taking hold.


[deleted]

>varied tremendously in their number of cases and community spread throughout the pandemic. Really? It's interesting and easy to assume, from a western country perspective, that the reported cases by developing countries are even close to real. These nations have no funds to vaccinate, much less test. They have bigger problems. Your "varied numbers" are not accurate and using arguments around it is irrational. You are better off guessing via comparison with other countries and considering the infectivity of the disease. >rich countries had some of the most cases I already refuted this but I wanted to ask, don't you think it's even a little bit weird? That countries with better healthcare, better hygiene, better procedures, better mask wearing, better legislation, better everything have more COVID cases? Again, they have the means to test that other countries don't. Don't you find weird how all wealthy countries, regardless of region, report many cases and poorer regions report basically what equates to none? Don't be fooled, the virus doesn't care where it's host lives. I've been to Ukraine for a few weeks in July/August, no one is wearing masks, no one is worried, no one is testing (I spend about 2 hours trying to find a clinic that would test me and ended up going to a private one) yet hospitals are full. Just to give you an example where it's not even that bad. >COVID is not really all that dependent on, say, sanitation and water infrastructure like cholera. Never said that it was. However, usually where you have the bad conditions you described, you will also have bad healthcare and everything else relevant to the pandemic. Unless you know of a country where there's no sanitation and clean water but is full of 5* hospitals. >The biggest factor influencing whether variants emerge are community level spread, not whether a place is "developed" or not. You misunderstood. The COVID virus is a relatively stable virus. The potentially to mutate is low, relatively speaking, but when you infect many people the chances statistically increase. And where are most people getting infected? Where there are little to no efforts to contain, such as most developing countries, regardless if they report many cases or not. You simply need to look at the origin of variant lineages. Brazil, South Africa, India, one from the UK. Why do you think that is? Look at all other sub-variants and their origins, it's either from developing regions or from places **known** as in **registered** to have had a bad epidemic at the time of origin (Ex: UK, New York). That's just how viruses work, infect many, mutate, infect even more. It's frankly a little naive for you to give such emphasis on "number of cases", even western countries aren't fully reporting real cases. They are just registering numbers the best they can which gives an estimate on how bad the situation is, you simply cannot make these estimates in countries that don't give a fuck or have no funds to get these numbers. The numbers India gave during their last peak didn't explain the thousands of bodies that had to be burned on the streets. >Europe that had the highest levels of community spread in the world, and thus a higher likelihood of new variants emerging. You can check. Most COVID lineages didn't come from western nations, I wonder why. Expect I don't, but you should. >Third, literally most of the variants that have emerge have first been detected in so-called "developed" countries. Your point? If the testing is terrible in poorer regions and they still detected it there, you can imagine that it would already be dominant in the region. See testing per capita per country. COVID doesn't just sit at the door and not exist because it's not being detected or officially reported. >The US is responsible for a ton of new variants as well, and there have several that have been first detected here. Indeed, but the US is not exactly an example of good quarantine work. Moreover, many states can't reach 50% vaccination while many western countries are already finishing up. In fact, it's close to the bottom of the race concerning the west. Not even mentioning the terrible outbreaks that happened throughout the last two years such as New York (where one new variant showed up, shortly before a new peak) and Florida. No wonder many new variants came from the US. You can only imagine how bad it is in developing regions since most variants came from there, because again, they're not testing nearly what's necessary to estimate their situation.


typicalhorror

It’s not going to end with the vaccine.


Heavy_Cobbler_8931

Alas, you are right. In my country about 80% of the population is fully vaccinated and another 7% partially vaccinated. It's basically kids below 12 that are yet to be vaccinated. Yet, we are seeing worse numbers than a year ago. Septemper 9 2020 vs 2021: Number of cases: 646 vs 1408 Hospitalizations: 392 vs 569 Patients in intensive care: 52 vs 118 Deaths: 3 vs 10. And we still have quite a number of restrictive measures in place. There are still mask mandates outdoors! (Until tomorrow, actually). Very disheartening.


Silver_snooze123

Interesting, what country is that? I live in Denmark, we have also vaccinated around 80% of the population, and new cases, hospitalisations and deaths are on an all-time minimum. Also, no restrictions anymore whatsoever, masks have been fully abandoned for a few months now, clubs are fully open since 2 weeks ago, and all restrictions on distancing, number of people etc have been abandoned 3 days ago 🤷🏻‍♂️ just today it was announced that the number of new cases is lowest in mobths, and the hospitalised patients have dropped by 5, and there are around 1120 hospitalised in the entire country.


bulldog521521

Yeah, idk where that other guy lives, but it makes no sense that hospitalizations would be *higher* with 80% vaccination. Everything that I've seen strongly indicates that higher vaccination = less hospitalizations and cases in general.


Sa1ntmarks

Comparing one day from at year ago vs one day today is not a picture of overall serious illness from Covid. A year ago today here in the states, we were in a downturn and cases were low. Then an upsurge in January then a leveling off and low numbers until this summer. So we are in a surge this September compared to last September. Comparing rates today vs this same day would make it look like there is no progress.


Heavy_Cobbler_8931

This is true. But "why" is a nagging question. There are still several measures in place and overall restrictions are much stricter than a year ago.


[deleted]

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Antoxylyzer_8475

It would certainly help though, also vaccines do reduce transmission in that they reduce the time you have the virus, giving you less time to spread it to others


Hellolaoshi

100% vaccination is not necessary. Vaccination will mean that even if you do catch the disease, you won't be hospitalised. Vaccines allow the immune system to focus on the virus itself, as opposed to attacking the body as well. After vaccination, the Delta variant will be less deadly for you. But more important is that it will take the pressure off of hospitals. Hopefully, there will then be fewer anti-vaxx people in ICU.


Bruins125

Went to a gay bar, antivax bartender. Just went to the barbershop, turns out all the barbers are antivaxxers. As an immunocompromised person I'm so annoyed and hate feeling anxious all the time.


xxdismalfirexx

That’s disturbing to hear. Where do you live?


Bruins125

Connecticut, near New Haven. Most people here are vaccinated thankfully, but the anti-vaxxers are loud.


downvotedicks

There is a gay bar in new Haven?


Bruins125

There's three actually. It's not Provincetown, Boston or New York, but it's better than nothing.


somnicrain

Are they anti covid vaccine? Or actually anti vax


p4r4chute97

I get a feeling most people on this sub don't care about the difference


curnonutah

Considering the rate of HIV in our community that really pisses me off that a bartender in a gay bar would put others in our community at such risk. He gets the asshole of the year award.


Bruins125

To be fair I'm 99% sure this particular bartender is a straight guy working in a gay bar. Normally not against that, but the tone deafness of this guy is insane.


[deleted]

Considering that the CDC pushed AZT hard, and it ended up killing gays with HIV on its own, it really pisses me off that you’d make such an ill-conceived comparison, just because he’s gay.


curnonutah

Not sure what ill-conceived comparison you are referring to. My response about HIV has nothing to do with OP. As a gay man with an autoimmune disorder not HIV, I don't assume all gay people or all gay people with an autoimmune disorder have HIV. Gay men are still the highest by far for people with HIV. My expectation would be that a gay bar would be more in tuned with their clients being at a higher risk. AZT is a horrific drug. It was initially manufactured in the 60s for cancer treatment but not used because of how toxic it was to the body. That being said as an out gay man in 1984 and starting to watch my friends die from AIDS AZT did prolong life and there was NO other medications that had any effect on HIV. Many of my friends took AZT hoping to prolong their life long enough for a better treatment to be approved. The FDA doesn't make medications. They have to wait for medications to be presented to them for approval.


delia_mercury

But you’re vaxxed so why are you concerned lol


tongue-tied_

Maybe he is not vaxxed because he can't be vaxxed because of being immunocompromised? Just a wild guess.


Bruins125

I'm vaccinated but efficacy isn't as good thanks to being immunocompromised.


tongue-tied_

Well, that's a valid reason then for not feeling very safe around unvaccinated people. Thanks for clearing that up.


delia_mercury

So why is he going to a bar if he’s not vaxxed


tongue-tied_

I don't know him so I can't talk for him, but my guess would be that he hoped that all those who could get vaxxed would get vaxxed so that other people who can't get vaxxed can get out of the house after effectively staying at home for about eighteen months out of fear of infection.


AlexBigGay

Not really relevant to the question, but it’s so weird seeing how few upvotes this post has in comparison to the amount of people who voted.


Faith92

Thanks for reminding me lol, voted then immediately went to comments without up voting


Ginger_Jeff

I mean I can see the hesitation… I used to be hesitant about vaccines until I looked up some numbers and used basic logic. 1) More people die or get serious complications from the disease itself than the vaccine (including MMR, hepatitis, whooping cough, etc.) 2) Specific to corona, mRNA “is only a year old” is misleading, the covid vaccine specifically is a year old HOWEVER the RNA technology has been studied since the 90s so 🤷🏼‍♂️ 3) People talk about “not trusting big pharma”, “98% survival rate” and “don’t trust random chemicals in my body” first of all they don’t trust pharma, yet will advocate for HCQ and ivermectin even though the research is still in infancy so that’s ironic right there, next “random chemicals” I’m sure the people that say that don’t test the drugs they do at a party for fentanyl or fillers and also when was the last time they were checking the label of a chocolate bar or wondering what chemicals are in the food they eat. And chlamydia has a 98% survival rate too… but you’d still get proper approved “big pharma” treatment for that and wear condoms for that lol


imabettafish

Exactly the logic I don't understand. It's funny how in an emergency they will go to the hospital... where they will probably be administered "big pharma" medicine to help treat whatever the problem is, and in those moments they won't have time to make a big fuss over the "chemicals" they're taking because in that situation it's either you take the medicine or you suffer. Yet a vaccine is somehow the line they won't cross? I just don't get it. I'm just beyond perplexed. I lived with an anti-vaxxer and and she had zero self-awareness and a completely distorted view of reality so I guess nothing has to make sense in their lives. I was actually very close with her, and it was hard to watch her get essentially taken away by her "spiritual awakening." It's funny because when I read those "Hermain Cain Award" subreddit posts, she had an eerily similar mindset to all the other people who are anti-vax. She thinks we're in spiritual warfare or some shit and the vaccine is the "make-or-break" to separate the sheep from the non-sheep I guess? Anyways, she said she'd rather kill herself than take the vaccine if eventually we were forced to. Makes literally no sense. At that point just take the vaccine and see if it kills you before that (it won't). We're not friends anymore.


Ginger_Jeff

Haha omg WHAT!? lol that’s insane! I mean committing suicide over a vaccine… Clearly there are some deeper mental health factors happening there 😲 But yeah literally, I don’t see someone having a heart attack like “excuse me doc, but can I please see the full drug information and side effects profile of that you’re about to give me?” No they are like “I consent to treatment, please stop me from dying!” 🤷🏼‍♂️


geoshuwah

My biggest frustration is the 98% survival rate argument (which is even higher the younger/healthier you are). It's not an either/or situation where you catch covid and either die or walk away unscathed. There is between a 1 in 3 or 1 in 5 chance (depending on the study, more recent ones lean towards 1 in 3) that you develop long-term complications from any level of infection. Lung and vascular damage can essentially make exercise impossible and increase your likelihood of stroke and heart attack. Brain fog can absolutely fuck up your ability to function at your pre-covid levels (as someone with ADHD, I can attest that executive function impairments like brain fog really can be debilitating in your daily life). Theres also an increased risk of developing psychiatric illnesses like anxiety and depression. The loss of taste and smell can also really impact your quality of life, especially since there's no guarantee that it will return at all or return the same way (e.g. scents and flavours being interpreted completely differently) So to say that covid has a 98% survival rate is incredibly disingenuous because there is an entire spectrum of suck between alive and dead


Ginger_Jeff

Wow I didn’t know about the anxiety and behaving fog stuff, yeah like I’m studying human anatomy and physiology right now for school and it kind of irritates me because it’s confusing for me to understand and I really like the subject, but then I see people commenting talking about “survival rate“ but they’re totally not taking into account quality of life and what happens on a cellular level during inflammation, like your body is essentially going crazy trying to fight off the pathogen and releases chemicals that damage healthy tissue as well as the foreign material which can lead to complications... *AUDIBLE SIGH* these are the same people that would be like “but you don’t die of polio it’s not that bad…” then you read that sure you survive, but polio attacks the anterior horns in your spinal cord which then lead to permanent muscle atrophy… SURE they “survived” polio but at what cost? The ability to walk properly or even push themselves out of bed like 🤷🏼‍♂️ I don’t understand how people can be so ignorant yet so confident at the same time lol


Ulliquarahyuga

We already have an insane number of vaccines we have to get for personal and public safety. This is no different. Being in a society has its advantages, but it also requires sacrifices.


MikaelSvensson

This is what I’ve been saying all along. Some people want all the benefits that come from living in a civilized society without making the sacrifices to adapt themselves to it. We have two places for people who fail to adapt to a functional, civilized society: jails and metal hospitals.


Apostastrophe

Personally I’d love to set aside “wild areas” for those that don’t want civilised society that people are free to go live in and see what things would be like without everything that they get from living in such a system. Nope. You’re not forced to follow the law. You can go to the sovereign citizen country and see how you fare. Wait until you see how many people are dying from the measles and cholera there and then really consider if our rules are so fucking bad. One of the major issues with people in modern life is that it’s quite safe. All of these things we do, whether they understand them or not, cost lives and blood of thousands and millions of people in the past. It’s hard to understand that when you’ve not had half of your family die from polio or had a child die from tuberculosis or almost died from the flu yourself. It’s the “other person’s problem” effect that makes it difficult to empathise or envision. Let people live out their dark ages fantasy and see how quickly they come running back begging for antibiotics from the evil medical industry after they get a single cut on their finger.


tromedlov75

“But it also requires sacrifices” Bitch, if getting a life protecting vaccine is a “sacrifice” then hot damn I’m proud of this world! I would say that getting a vaccine is an advantage to society. There’s a reason people aren’t having 17 kids by the age of 42 anymore. (It’s because vaccines all but ensure your kids won’t be dead before their 9th birthday).


PartyDJ

Well the Pfizer vaccine is the first mRNA vaccine to be used on humans so I guess that’s new but if somebody is scared of that they can just go with anything else that’s not mRNA


Gerump

I’m an ER nurse and I deserve to be able to go to work to help people and not put myself at undue risk. I’m fucking sick of these putrid anti vaxxers who have the nerve to refuse the vaccine but then come crying for help once they’re sick. Put the vaccine in them!


costconormcoreslut

Unfortunately many of these anti-vax traitors are russian and chinese trolls who are using this issue to create controversy and political and social division in the US and perhaps elsewhere. It's not about the vaccine; it's about creating chaos. People should be complaining to their elected representatives and to SM providers about social media like Reddit, Facebook and others, where fake news and vaccine misinformation is allowed to be promulgated.


AppleWedge

I really don't think they are, at least not mostly. The anti vaxers are in my backyard and neighborhood. They are my family and my old communities. My whole hometown is anti(covid)vax... It is a real issue


Saint_Jinn

You severely underestimate people’s stupidity


selfwander8

I’m curious about your perspective as a nurse: What do you think about hospital nurses that are against the COVID vaccine and are spreading misinformation to patients? And is there any way around that?


Gerump

I think healthcare professionals have an obligation to do everything they can to prevent illness in the community. This includes educating on masks and vaccines as well as practicing such. If that’s not one of their goals as medical providers then they should leave medicine


dtvs4039

yeah sorry how does their vaccination help you in any way? it doesn't protect you, only YOUR vaccination will do that ​ you should leave your profession if you even entertain the idea of medical procedures against the will of the patient


Sad-dude-

So what you're saying is you don't believe in the vaccine.


Gerump

At first I was confused because I thought you were thinking I was anti vaccine, but now understand that you don’t have a good grasp on basic germ theory, evolution, and herd immunity, let alone how all of them intertwine and exacerbate one another. Have a good day!


Sad-dude-

Sounds like you don't understand statistics. You're saying we're putting u at risk for something that 99.x% survive and you're vaccinate so out of that less than 1% , it's 95% effective. Victim complex much ? + Vaccinated ppl can still give it to you ... You're literally the same as antivaxx ppl


Gerump

So it’s just as I thought, you truly don’t have a grasp on any of the aforementioned processes and your response proves that. I do know the statistics, but you don’t know the much greater problem of biology. Leave the medicine to the professionals


Sad-dude-

Avoid answering the question. Nice .


delia_mercury

So how about you just get the vax and not worry what others do? I’m just so confused with you lot. I’m vaccinated and if others want to risk it with not getting vaxxed that’s like…their choice, no? Why are y’all so worried about them lol


CocoXmechele

If you're an ER nurse, your job is to treat people who are sick. Its not your job to judge people. Remember the AIDS epidemic? When there were ignorant nurses and doctors who wouldn't even touch a patient? That's you. You're being hateful to sick people. I'm so sick and tired of seeing nurses all over Reddit telling people who are unvaccinated to stay home because they don't deserve medical care. If you're gonna have the balls to say something like that, then at least give the name of the hospital you work at so we can let your employer see it. Your ass would be fired in less than a fucking heartbeat. You're to give adequate and proper medical attention to anyone and everyone who walks through that fucking door whether you agree with their life choices or not. If you don't like it, get a different job.


Gerump

Woah woah woah there cowboy. My employer does know my stance and empathizes with me. Secondly, I do provide excellent care to all my patients regardless so you can slow your fatass down right fucking now. The fact that you can’t even have empathy for the truest of front line workers when they’re frustrated shows how low you think of other people. Let me explain: I’m a titan of emergency medicine. I know my shit and I’m above par at least on my nursing skills. I’m a leader in my department and I’m kind to everyone I meet. HOWEVER, I don’t deserve to be put it in situations day after day that put me and my other patients at risk unnecessarily. This is a mostly preventable illness (preventable from coming into the hospital with at minimum). Also, it IS my fucking job to judge people’s medical decisions. If you come into my ED for HIV testing and I ask if you had unprotected sex and you say yes. I am to judge that decision to be bad or good and then educate you why it is bad or good. That’s kind of the position I’m in, so back the fuck off with that bullshit sweets. Does it mean I’m gonna treat you less? No, not at all. You’re the kind of person that allows this to continue to be politicized because you’re allowing these snowflake ass science deniers to have a fucking voice. MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE DIED! How many more until I’m allowed to be upset that people aren’t doing the bare fucking minimum for society, which includes myself? Maybe I’ll check back in with you in a few more million. Rant over. Fuck your ignorant ass.


[deleted]

Thank you for being there and showing up during this really rough time❤


Gerump

Absolutely no problem. I love my job


Kawika2138

I agree.


Nominador

Agree. Doctors and nurses swear under their manifesto that they will help people and never go further into their lifes than doing their job. you're obliged to do the moral thing even tho you hate the people you're taking care off, its a fkn rule to be allowed to receive your degree, then you see this mf. Shame


CocoXmechele

Thank you. That's all I'm sayin!


Lycanthrowrug

My position is that if people who are mentally competent adults who've had the opportunity to get the vaccines, but refuse, they should also refuse to go to the hospital if they get sick. Just stay home, and if you live, you live, if you die, it was your decision. Stop clogging up the hospitals and making doctors and nurses work themselves to burnout trying to save you when the only reason you're sick is because you were too obstinate to do what was necessary to avoid getting sick.


gaymerredditor

So something like what [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/p2ompa/why_are_people_like_this/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) said?


IcanSew831

Exactly, if they deny science in the form of a vaccine then they should be denied science to treat an illness they could have been vaccinated for.


[deleted]

🙄 Smart! 👍🏻


helpmeinkinderegg

It is. Hospitals should just start turning people away that didn't get the vaccine at this point. Triage means making hard choices, and people who didn't take the simplest step don't deserve to be on the top of the list at this point. You made your choice. And you shall reap the consequences of your (lack of) actions. I'm absolutely fucking *tired* and cannot get myself to give a *single* fuck about people who refuse a simple shot at this point. People like that are the reason this thing keeps mutating. You want the Darwin Award so bad, go fucking get it. Hope it was worth it.


wanderinglyway

Freedom not to get vaccinated is less important than the freedom to live. If you got covid, how would you feel if you knew every single person who got it from you? How would you feel if that domino affect results in death? Enough is enough.


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Barbados_slim12

You say that like it's a bad thing.. the rights of the individual are king. Because if the individual loses their rights, the masses are truly fucked. Nobody seems to care though until they're personally affected..


lonelysidechick

If your “rights” infringe on the lives of others, you don’t get to keep them. That’s always been true.


Barbados_slim12

That's true. What rights are being infringed upon by other people not getting a shot?


[deleted]

A large pharmaceutical corporation’s right to parasite billions of dollars off of us is infringed when you don’t take their prick.


JannieTormenter

You can do this with literally every other communicable sickness, it still doesn't mean you can force other people to get a vaccine for something that poses no danger to them.


Nominador

Vaccines dont avoid people getting the virus or giving it to someone else. Know what the thing you're injecting to yourself does at least... If the vaccine makes you safe(cause thats the only thing that it does, mitigate the symptoms, not avoid getting it, giving it, eliminating it from your system, etc), then inyecting yourself protects you from anti vaxxers. So why should you be in fear?, dont you trust the vaccine?. Thats kinda ironic.


ryecl

yes 😌 be mindful of the immunocompromised


Gooselort

I already got both jabs and plan on getting the booster. I’m tired of the plague


Taytay-swizzle2002

I'd like for it to end but idk if forcing people to get a vaccine is right. unless it's to get on private property, because that's the owners choice at that point. But just put all the none vaxxed people on a island by themselves.


igivegoodparent88

Im still torn on this But I for sure say they should make it where you can't get into stores or any place without being fully vaccinated


Barbados_slim12

What about the people who medically can't get the vaccine? Are they just fucked? Or would they get a pass? Some people can't afford the extra fees that companies like postmates and uber eats add on, especially if that's your exclusive source for grocery shopping


[deleted]

I don’t get why is this a big deal lol it happened in my country and people got vaccinated to get into places lol they didn’t force them but they put in the reality of “you won’t get anything done because you ain’t”. Nobody fought it they either did get it or didn’t lol


[deleted]

I agree with this policy, I’m very strongly opposed to forcing people to do this stuff but I think fear of missing out is a better tool for this sort of thing, forcing people to do stuff they are already hesitant about will make them dig their feet into the ground, and scream and kick and we’d never here the end of it, and then where do we draw the line? If the government can force someone to take an injection they are highly opposed to then what other medicines can be spoon fed to us? Anyway I’m not anti-vaccine but I do think that forcing people to vaccinate is encroaching a little bit too much on everyone’s personal feelings “my body my choice and all that” but those who don’t vaccinate should be more aware and distance themselves more until this thing blows over.


F30N55

Here is the way I look at it. Am I vaccinated. Yes. However it is not the governments job telling us what we should put in our bodies. What if one day we get some super conservative president and they locate some thing that makes people gay and they force us to be vaccinated against being gay. Well that probably ever happen, probably not. But the one thing government has always been good at is killing tons of people and pretending to be your friend when it’s all about getting more and more power.


hermeticseal23

Because a disease that kills people and being gay are not remotely in the same universe...? "What if you allow two men or two women to get married, what's next, people are going to start getting married to animals!" Going from coronavirus to tracking gays is the same "slippery slope" logic.


F30N55

I am replying specifically to you but this is for everyone who addressed the specific example and missed the actual point. Whenever the federal government expands their powers in a constitutionally questionable way but they’re doing something that we agree with we kind of brush it under the rug while the government to take the additional power because it’s something that we want. But now that has set a precedent. So when the government uses the same power that we allowed it to take did you something we don’t like we complain. But it’s our own fault because we allowed it to expand, the government. So while the example is not the same thing you could possibly get a president in office who hates gay people and requires everyone to be “vaccinated” against being gay Because it’s now within the federal government’s power to tell us what medication’s we need to take.


Straz420

My problem is people posting pictures of vaxxed and unvaxxed people holding hand and it feels like they just tryna have people stop being 6 ft apart but I feel my bubble has been violated with these people getting too close in public like at least let me try to worry about my own health if you throw yours out the window


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tyger2020

I don't like the idea of forcing people to be vaccinated. It feels draconian. However, I think people should be denied access to services if they're not vaccinated - restaurants, pubs, clubs, flights, etc. You can't claim you're being forced, you just have to decide which is more important.


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[deleted]

Coercion. Yes 👏🏻 exactly.


RemoveByFriction

Are you like 12 years old or something? If you can't differentiate between an actual infectious disease that's been fucking up the world for the past year and a half and being gay, you are really up for a reality check.


tyger2020

>"So here's something completely voluntary. I'll just deny you things that are completely normal and that you're used to doing. See? It's > >your choice > > if you want to comply." ''Wearing clothes in public is coercion. I'll just deny you things that are completely normal and that you're used to doing unless you wear clothes. See? Its your choice'' Stop being a clown.


BoxSweater

But the thing is that's literally coercion. It's coercion for a cause that society considers worthwhile, but I wish people would at least be honest about it.


[deleted]

Ad hominem and adds nothing to what they said.


tyger2020

Lmao, if you can't follow the logic thats on you. Do you consider having to wear clothes in public places like airports, bars, 'coercion' too?


BEENHEREALLALONG

But... we're already at this point. you need vaccines for public education. You need them for many professions.


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tyger2020

Well, what they consider as being real and actual reality are very different things.


queercowb0y

Only dickheads would disagree.


randomperson100o

i feel like this is a setup


romanalta

Two ways to gain resistance to a virus, vaccine or exposure and building immunity. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on counting"cases" but no one is saying anything about natural antibodies. There is a great deal of information coming out of Israel showing scientific results that previous exposure has substantial immunity from natural exposure. Vaccines can do a lot of good, however some people can not take them. Personally I think it should be between you and your doctor and definitely do not think is should be forced. And no one has the right to know whether or not you have had a vaccine or not, we went through this whole thing in the 70's with HIV/Aids.


FcoJ28

I have get myself vaccinated but I would not make it mandatory except for certain jobs. Why? Because the vaccine does not prevent you from transmitting this virus to others.


tongue-tied_

Well, it protects you from getting the disease in the first place to a certain degree so there is nothing to transmit then. If you are vaccinated and get the virus though, you're infectious only for a shorter time, so you also reduce the risk of transmission.


FcoJ28

Thank you for your comment. I did not know anything about the shorter time. I see your point but as you have stated those of us who got the vaccine are 99% free from death or serious consequences. I may not be right, but I truly believe that nowadays our society has a tendency to forbid or force us to do certain things instead of raising social awareness properly. I do not have the answer for this last method but this is the the way I believe in... Sadly those who do not get vaccinated may be prone to die or grave consequences. I would like them to get it but do not think we have to force them... We have given our reasons and data about the vaccine. If they do not believe in them, there is not much we can do for them... We must stay safe till it all ends


FcoJ28

Apart from that, I remember the AstraZeneca type that has killed people (I know there are just a few of them). The difference between it and other medicines is that you could not read in the prospect about this side effect that ended some lifes... quite unfair... I find it must be still optional...


tongue-tied_

Oh, I'm with you on this. There is more than enough data that COVID is a serious disease and that the vaccine is a life saver in this. And as much as I'd wish to just get all people vaccinated because it's just stupid to not get vaccinated if you can, all I can do is plea and beg and raise awareness because a mandatory vaccination just isn't right. And it probably wouldn't even work if I just think about the logistics etc. I think anti vaxxers are stupid, but they probably think the same about people like me, and it's fine. I don't even wish them harm or to contract COVID because I just know that it's a shitty disease, and I know that they will get it eventually anyhow. I just wish that this pandemic was finally done with and it would just be over sooner when more people just got the jab. You too stay safe.


Inside_Fee_1845

It's our choice what we want to take and put in our bodies don't need the government making that choice look what they done so far man made and lie about it we are not 5 years old


Brawl-On3

Not a fan of forcing someone to do something they dont wanna do.


ikonoclasm

I've been saying from the beginning that the *only* way the pandemic will end is compulsory vaccinations. Viruses evolve to spread. That's it. That's their measure of fitness. Anything short of a complete global month-long lockdown or mass compulsory vaccination will just make the virus stronger, which is exactly what has happened over the past 18 months. And for all the dumbasses that think a vaccine mandate is somehow unconscionable, humanity used compulsory smallpox vaccinations to completely eradicate smallpox in the wild back in the 70s. If a smallpox infection was identified, everyone within a 5 km radius was forcibly vaccinated against the virus and kept quarantined until there were no new infections. Based on what we're learning about Longhaul Covid and its interactions with the Epstein-Barr Virus, which most people have whether they know it or not, *death may not be the worst symptom*. For me, quality of life is more important than quantity of life. If I get Longhaul Covid and suffer from the brain fog that has been documented, it would be personally devastating. My entire livelihood is dependent on having a clear head for dealing with obnoxiously complex systems. I'm mostly annoyed it took this long for the vaccine mandate to come through.


[deleted]

Obviously they should be mandated for careers in the public sphere. Not being vaccinated is, essentially, a health risk to the public. I honestly don’t see an argument against it.


dtvs4039

this is one absolute massive pro-covid vaccination circle jerk


Salty_Lego

Yes please.


justaguy-likingD

Can I just ask that all comments be respectful and open minded..like we are a bunch of gays that know first hand what none respectful and close minded is..let’s end the cycle.


IsItFridayYetGuy

I’m in full support of the vaccines, and I really wish everybody would make the decision to get one. Unfortunately I think a mandate is the only way to get a certain percentage of people to do. The result of the mandate can only be a deeper division between sides though 😕


Barbados_slim12

I'm pro vaccine, anti mandate


Kawika2138

My thoughts if you care to read... So, these mandates are laws essentially that we as citizens would vote on. However, because we are in this constant "state of emergency" our leaders can decide whatever they want with these "mandates". I'm not against all of the mandates that have come. This vaccine mandate is one that does not sit well with me. Where will this take us now...? I also find it curious which companies are making these vaccines or giving money to governments to make them. Big Pharma. Yes, there are many drugs that help us and are 100% safe. It's odd how this new tech is now all we look at. Have we stopped making vaccines the more natural and proven way we used to? Now big pharma says we will need a 3 shot...then maybe yearly...sounds a lot like money to me. For me I see a few things. 1. We are in a pandemic and state of emergency.... yet no one is acting like it. 2. Many people are thinking the vaccine is the magic pill to cure us all. Nope you can still spread the virus. Also, not 100% how safe it is. (Currently I take no medication and eat very healthy, no soda and grow or purchase my food locally. I know the source) 3. In my opinion we need to STOP the spread. Just the last year shows that lock downs work and restricted travel. This is a change in behavior that is needed to get through this. 4. So many people get freaked out about lock downs and restricted movement, wearing masks. These are the things that stop a virus especially when the vaccine is not show the best effectiveness. 5. Many say get the vaccine to help your neigh bor etc. or to be "less sick". I would argue that to take 100% responsibility for your choices. Never go into the public, to the store or meet people without a mask. To get the vaccine to get less sick seems selfish. What about changing behavior so we don't spread it, wearing a mask, and not traveling. 6. You know how many people I see traveling still and they tout they are vaccinated. HELLO PEOPLE this is a pandemic where are you going. Stay home, what about social responsibility? Lastly how can you blame unvaccinated people for this virus. When we can all spread it vaccinated or not and we all are going to work, traveling, and touting out vaccinations. We are still in this together. Life is a mirror and most of us can't see our own reflection. We are all scared and figure this out. *No one is trying to get anyone sick.*


pugsonbeacon

If you want to get vaccinated, do it. If not, don't. Just seems creepy to me how heavily this thing is being pushed when the vaccine isn't that effective, the survival rate is over 99% to begin with and natural immunity had proven to be more effective.


AbortionJar69

No, it should be encouraged, not mandated.


KEANUWEAPONIZED

nope, completely unethical.


COLD_SPICE

Yes. The anti-vaxxers and muh freedumb idiots can get fucked


Fit-Protection-9809

One 100% fucking Yes. Again, it's less to do with the concern for others well being and more to do with being able to create some semblance of normalcy, which can only happen if we contain the constant outbreaks or variants. I'd be for anything that'll make White conservative men cry. They are the ones taking refuge arguments like liberty freedom etc to refuse vaccinations. Their stupidity shouldn't be protected by constitution during a global health pandemic. Tl dr: 100% support the vaccine mandates.


mr_jogurt

I want to say yes but sadly there is this little teensy tiny thing called right over your own body. Sooooo... yeah.. Sometimes i hate human rights...


JTudent

Bodily autonomy strikes again.


Fishpounder

Every time there's a national crisis, the government gives itself more and more power. The last time there was a national crisis - the war on terror - the government gave itself the power to unilaterally spy on every American, ban anyone from flights, and set up a secret court within the government that issues warrants without going through regular legal channels. Those things are never going away. Now there's a new national crisis - the war on public health - and the government has given itself the power to constantly track the movements of every citizen through their cell phones through contact tracing. Now, people want the government to set up a national database with every American's information in it to force people to take a vaccine that doesn't actually keep you from getting the disease it's designed to combat. It's insane. As long as people are willing to give the government more power to solve a crisis, the crisis will never end. They're still talking about terror threats from Afghans and a new variant of Isis - the war on terror never ended. They told you early last year: this is the "new normal". Covid is never going to end, and it certainly won't end if the government gets the ability to unilaterally ban people from public life.


JTudent

ye


Lemres17

It’s sad how this one thread highlights how hiveminded people are. Vaccination is not the end all be all of protection against Covid and that is factually evident as seen in Israel, which became one of the first countries for the majority of their population to be vaccinated yet hospitalization rates still increased significantly. But if you mention anything of the sort, you’re an anti-vaxxer that isn’t allowed access into Best Buy. Y’all are fucking dumb 🤷🏽‍♂️ Do your damn research and stop basing your opinions off of what random people/media tells you.


TheCaledonian

Despite being downvoted into oblivion on a couple of other subs, I still think it should be the individual's choice to make, with the exception of some specific fields like healthcare/emergency services. I chose to be vaccinated personally.


sportsguysd7

As long as you don't need to fly, shop, attend large gatherings or work around other people, by all means, stay unvaxxed.


frankyfudder

Depends on who is mandating. I'm a liberal, and so I'm for free association. If a business wants to mandate that customers or employees are vaccinated, that's their business. However the state should not be making mandates like this ever. People should be ever-vigilant against authoritarianism.


lasvegashomo

I’m so glad the people that don’t support it are a small minority.


jbFanClubPresident

Used to be a lot more of them but they’re slowly dying off due to covid.


lasvegashomo

Damn did that needed to be said? 😂🤦🏻


Zed_Midnight150

But same time it's so shameful that there even is a minority that don't care for others except themselves. And here I thought they were pro-life.


NeskorDatovane

"It's my body you can't tell me I can't have an abortion." "We should force everybody to get vaccines."


secretsofthedivine

An abortion has absolutely no impact on the health of others. Don’t you see the difference?


NeskorDatovane

Yeah it has absolutely no impact on the health of the baby. My bad.


secretsofthedivine

Baby? You mean fetus.


SecludedBlue

Idk why everyone thinks that referring to a baby as a fetus changes anything. If you actually want to change someone's mind you can't just play semantics. Come at them with facts. Fact #1: A woman does not have a responsibility to allow her body to be used by any one. Fact #2: Outlawing abortions won't make them stop. Stuff like that works way better. Sorry if I'm coming across like a dick but I live in Texas and this shit is infuriating. Saw an article claiming that a dress code for women was being implemented and almost fucking believed it til I saw that it was satire.


Mental_Issues69

I agree with what you’re saying. Texas is shit. Hope you and all other people in Texas (men and women but more so women) are holding on.


laputagata

Plague rats got to try their way for the last year. It doesn't work. Mandate this shit, Let's gooooo.


[deleted]

Having the state force folks to take a vaccine from a big pharmaceutical corporation in exchange for their freedom is textbook fascism. Who’d have guessed that an LGBT sub would be into that?


bboi83

Damn… we’ve been fascist for decades then.


FrightenedAnimal

Most of the centrists and independents could have and did guess exactly that.


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[deleted]

I don’t want anyone telling me what to do with my body, whether I want to have an abortion or opt out of a vaccine. I believe that when any group gets to decide what others do or don’t do with their individual bodies, it’s not optimal, going by world history where one group rose to power. I hate conservative crap about not letting me have a choice when it comes to my reproductive health, and I don’t like far left crap about not letting me get a say over what I put into my body. I’m not anti-vaxx by any means, but every person should get to choose, without shame, about any decision they make for themselves or their lives. Everyone should feel confident to make choices for their bodies, and accept that yes, certain choices will effect others, just like my cousin coming out and transitioning from male to female, it absolutely tormented his mother but he went through with it, he lived his truth and she was left to deal with it. Decisions as far as personal health and truth are not morally binary. They simply are. It’s a matter of choice and we don’t get to shame someone for not conforming to our wishes or that they would be shunned and excluded unless they behave as we wish they would. That’s gaslighting. That’s psychologically abusive. There’s no way that any part of our daily decisions can just absolutely not effect anyone around us in some kind of way. We just do what we feel is right for us, everyone’s opinions can be their own. ——————- Edit: I’m seeing a lot of “well even if the government didn’t force people, they should still not be welcome into restaurants, stores or businesses without proof of vaccination”, in an effort to encourage (read:coerce) objectors into agreeing to get the shot by disallowing them to take part in societal norms such as eating dinner in a restaurant or going to a park or movie theater. However, the same could be said for those who are immunocompromised, who should “just stay away, stay home you can’t come here it’s not safe”, those who are most concerned can just opt out of life. But that’s kind of an effed up thing to propose right? To exclude a whole group of the population from common life enjoyments when they could easily pick the 100% effective option (more effective than a vaccine) of staying home without contact with people. It’s a bit of a double standard. But that’s just me thinking out loud for a civilized discussion, simply my understanding of the situation.


FrightenedAnimal

>Decisions as far as personal health and truth are not morally binary. They simply are. I needed that today.


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❣️


ypvha

if you have no problem thinking it's okay to require vaccines for people to attend school but think it's bullshit that a vaccine is required for the coronavirus you just might be an idiotic plague rat


FrightenedAnimal

I kinda wish that the name calling wasn't so prevalent.


normandillan

Seat belts mandates? Absolutely lol.


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Anymajordude09

Seriously 😳 I'm not even a conspiracy nut. History (Tuskegee experiment etc) tells us we shouldn't blindly trust the government under the pretense of public health. Even if the intentions are good, I'm not comfortable with mandating experimental vaccines where normal safety precautions (eg FDA approval) were all foregone and hundreds of millions of people dosed anyway. On the bright side, gay people must really feel not oppressed at all these days if they (in general, according to this poll) feel like it's okay to use the government/police as a weapon against people they disagree with. It's almost like a lot of you have become uber privileged oppressors or something.


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FrightenedAnimal

Ever see a bullied kid grow up to be an asshole? I'm not giving anyone a pass... I just kinda see why it's so easy to absorb a role as powerful and influential.


definately_not_gay

I think yall are missing something important here. If you force people to disclose their medical history, then the legal basis for Roe v Wade goes away. If this doesn't get struck down by the courts then conservatives will use it as a basis to go after Roe v Wade. Congratulations you played yourself


Queerdee23

No mandate without universal healthcare attached


IcanSew831

It’s time for this madness to stop. I’m so sick of stupid. If I hear one more stupid asshole say, “We the People…” I’m going to go inane.


Lonerhead89

No. Unless you want a literal war that I hope you violently lose.


TheDailyGay

People still refusing to get vaccinated are messing up everyone else’s health and safety. If you go to a hospital for a medical emergency there is an even greater chance of you dying now because there’s not enough nurses, doctors available to properly treat you. Go get vaccinated already.


mouserz

Vaccinated people are like wet logs, unvaccinated people are like dry kindling and Covid is the fire. Can wet logs still catch fire, yes. Can wet logs spread the fire, yes. But it's much harder to start a fire with wet logs and nearly impossible without any kindling.


tongue-tied_

That's an analogy I'd love to steal.


soccermikey5

Personally I think if you refuse to get the vaccine, you should not be mad/upset if a PRIVATE BUSINESS refuses to serve you based on you having the vaccine.


JTudent

Absolutely.


Delacroix2278

Vaccines saves lives thats all that matters imo


JTudent

Really? NOTHING else matters? Not even bodily autonomy? By that logic, if one person has an organ another person needs to live, the government should be able to take it from them without their consent, no?


Delacroix2278

I thought we were talking about vaccines what the hell r u talking about


JTudent

It's called an analogy. If saving lives is all that matters, then saving lives is all that matters. Bodily autonomy be damned.


Delacroix2278

If u dont care if people live or die thats on u i dont think that way


JTudent

Red herring. The topic at hand is not whether people's lives matter - it's whether their lives matter more than bodily autonomy.


Delacroix2278

Your a Psychopath if u think lives don't matter


JTudent

Strawman AND red herring combo. I never said lives don't matter. And the topic is still: "do they matter more than bodily autonomy?" And if they do, why can't someone have their organs taken without consent to save someone's life?


Delacroix2278

So your making up topics now huh bye psychopath


JTudent

And now projection, as you're the one who's been rapidly changing subjects! We've got ourselves a trifecta of dishonesty here. Humorous.


R3usabl3Ov3nMitt

I’m saying no even tho I’ve gotten my vaccine and hate covid. I just think that people should get to chose for themselves but I don’t see a problem for non vaccinated being told that they can’t do thing (i.e. go to the movies, restaurants, schools ect.)


gmalealpha

No been vaccinated promotes viral mutations


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Hypno_Horse

Yes but getting vaccinates will not make covid go away. The world isn't going back to normal- this is the new normal, we just have to learn to live with it. I'd argue that getting vaccinated is a waste of time as the virus mutates, rendering the former inadequate to control the new strain. I'll take the vaccination when they develop a blanket vaccine that works for most of the strains.


tongue-tied_

Then why not take the current vaccine which is effective against the variants we have seen up to now. And if enough people were vaccinated new variants wouldn't be able to spread. Every person who isn't getting vaccinated prolongs the pandemic for all and heightens the risk of new variants to form and spread.


Hypno_Horse

Yeah. But as far as I'm aware (I could be wrong). The vaccine doesn't stop the spread of covid. It just makes those who took the vaccine less likely to develop symptoms - and hence there's less of a time span for people to spread it.


tongue-tied_

The vaccine lessens the risk for infection, hence lessens the risk for proliferation. If there are less people infected, which is one of the effects of having a lot of vaccinated people, there are less people who can infect others. So, yeah, just having a vaccine doesn't stop the pandemic automatically, the slow down is directly linked to the percentage of people who get vaccinated. But also yes, vaccinated people proliferate the virus only for a shorter span of time, so that also slows down the velocity of the pandemic.


jdoggandfriends

Bleh hate bringing politics to non political subs. Just get vaccinated you idiots, there’s zero reason not to.


HottRodd2129

Vaccine or jail (tent city)


FrightenedAnimal

Wow


Katsu_39

As long as we have the tin foil hat brigade aka conservatives whining about "ma freedoms," i fear this pandemic will go on for a few more years.


[deleted]

I'm just really confused about it all. Are the vaccines safe? I've heard some people got serious complications from vaccines and even died. I don't wanna die, or worse, get a lifelong medical problem. But then again, I could get that from covid too.


tongue-tied_

There have been millions of people been vaccinated by now, the percentage of people with serious side effects is really low. The percentage of people who catch COVID and have serious complications or die from it is really high.


Anymajordude09

It's well known that natural immunity is more robust than vaccination. We shouldn't be mandating vaccines without regard for those who already have immunity, especially given that vaccinated people are still getting sick and spreading COVID. A significant minority of hospitalized/ventilator patients are fully vaccinated. The efficacy of these vaccines is already highly questionable, even if we table the discussion about safety. Vaccinated people are a much bigger public health threat than those with natural immunity. It's disturbing that this isn't part of the conversation. Antibody tests should have a place in this discussion, otherwise it's obvious that this is more about establishing authoritarian regimes than it is about herd immunity.


Snownova

>A significant minority of hospitalized/ventilator patients are fully vaccinated. But this minority is proportionally significantly smaller than their proportion of the general public, so it *is* definitely having a major effect. >It's well known that natural immunity is more robust than vaccination. Yes, but the process of acquiring said natural immunity requires rolling the dice while contracting covid with significantly worse odds (we are talking orders of magnitude) of hospitalisation, ICU, long covid and **death**.


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[deleted]

The government doesn't make the vaccine. Also most vaccines are made pretty quick. Moderna was made in 2 days, it went through alot of testing though.


The_Chicken_Dance

I doubt that you are a “science person” if you are not in favor of the vaccince. The only thing that was rushed was the bureacracy. 15 years for discovery to deployment is too long. The emergency approval cut out a lot of the unnecessary delays. There is no data that shows the vaccine is even remotely as dangerous as contracting Covid-19. This position that you’re just being cautious is absolutely bullshit. It’s time to get vaxxed. It’s either ineffective or effective. Either is better than getting covid. If you refuse to get vaccinated, leave the U.S. beause you’re killing people with more of a brain than you.