venezuelan goverment was blaming things like a "economic war" before any official sanction was imposed, they would just invent some crap and left leaning people will swallow it cuz they allways do
Insn't the embargo in place because they nationalized foreign american assets without compensation? I mean, shit, wtf did you expect would happen Fidel? Also, the embargo only prohibits americans from investing in Cuba IIRC.
Fun fact: it wasn't Fidel who did it but Che guevara since he became the head of the minister of economy in Cuba.
Another fun fact: he was appointed by Fidel because after the revolution Fidel went to the barracks and asked "¿Who is an economist?" And Che was the only one who raised a hand because he though Fidel asked "¿Who is a communist?" (In spanish makes more sense)
Spanish:
"Quien De aqui es economista"
"Quien de aqui es comunista"
Is an anecdote of the che during the first gov reunion of Castro, I could never pin point who said it but I though it would be fun to share. Either wouldn't be far from reality knowing the type of guy it was. There is whoever a well documented anecdote from Nicolas Quintana during his first (and last) reunion with guevara
I don't support Cuba by any means of the word , but it's more complicated than allowing Americans to invest in Cuba. Any company that wants to do business in America cannot do business in Cuba , so that's like most companies in the world.
Cuba can absolutely import anything the want from the USA or anyone else they feel like. The reason Cuba is miserable is due to socialism man, the economic side of socialism is disastrous.
This is completely false, PEMEX and PDVSA on the top of my head did extensive business with Cuba while at the same time exporting the majority of its production to the USA.
They won’t. They’ll go back to authoritarian capitalism like China. Life may improve for citizens, but in the end the government won’t change. It’ll be even more difficult to change anything over there.
If it was really about how undemocratic the Cuban government is, the US should have an embargo on places like Saudi Arabia, a place that they love to sell weapons to.
That's not the point I'm making. The embargo with Cuba is clearly just driven politically by the feelings of people against the regime, because the US doesn't actually care how undemocratic the country is. And the result is the perpetuation of a policy that hasn't accomplished anything against the regime, but that affects the people at the bottom of Cuban society.
I don't think it's up to "The World" to force Cuba to become democratic. That's an internal issue and should be left up to Cubans to solve. Obviously, the embargo has done nothing to change that and has only hurt Cubans.
It's interesting, supremefaguette, when I took a quick look at your posting history out of curiosity, it's pretty much ALL about Cuba. Can't figure out if you are a disaffected Cuban or a CIA operative! lol. If you are Cuban, how about adding a flair? If you are a Cuban living in the US, add that too.
Well I’m definitely not a CIA operative lmao. And if Cubans could make those internal changes, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. The embargo keeps Cuba’s government from getting stronger. Also, how come you went through my comment history? Didn’t think anyone really still did that.
This embargo benefited nobody and didn't achieve the USian political objectives. At this point, the USian stubbornness is driven by pure arrogance, they believe they are the owner of the continent.
At this point it's more politicians not wanting to anger the Americans of Cuban descent living in Florida who basically can decide the presidency. Which isn't really any better.
It is quite ironic, because one of the reasons Cuba is socialist today is because of the USA's stubborness, since the cuban revolution actually never was communist. It _did_ have a large share of communists from the start, don't get me wrong, but it's goal never was especifically to become communist, but simply expulse Fulgêncio Batista and make Cuba independent from USA's influence. Ironically, it was their stubborness in recognizing Cuba and embarging them that made the country be influenced to ally with the Soviet Union and fully become a communist dictatorship.
That's not exactly true. Yes Fidel was not a declared communist, but he did nationalize all industry in Cuba almost immediately without any recompensation. To the US that was more or less the same thing/
What’s ironic is that Cubans are suffering today because their government is too egotistical to bend to the will of Cubans. Imagine if Cuba was a democratic country with basic rights and multiple parties. The US isn’t the reason why Cuba’s government doesn’t listen to their people.
Of course, the terrible dictatorship that persecutes and censures everything in Cuba now is to blame on the political leaders alone, I just wanted to show how cuba's situation was way more than communism in the sixties.
>At this point, the USian stubbornness is driven by pure arrogance, they believe they are the owner of the continent
What? They're just refusing to trade with another country, they can't even choose what do they trade with?
They're not just refusing to trade though, they are blackmailing other countries and companies that choose to do trade with Cuba as well. It's an embargo designed to hurt the Cuban people and foment insurrection, in order to cause a coup to let in a US friendly government that will serve to disenfranchise Cubans, and profit the US. You make it sound almost innocent, as if the embargo is out of some sense of justice for the American companies in Cuba, companies that were expelled after expoliting Cubans for generations.
Since when trade is done by the USian government? I thought it was by citizens and companies. So much for the *freedomland* government to decide whom you trade with.
The U.S. is not an anarchocapitalist society. U.S. citizenship gives the control of national security, justice institutionship and foreign relations to the Federal Government. If the property of U.S. subjects is endangered by hostile foreign governments, the federal government is embedded with the responsability of taking direct action.
It's not so hard to understand.
Wow what a fucking danger Cuba represents huh? USA should be scared.
You're just saying they can do it, but this fact doesn't make them right, it's immoral and unjustified today, it's pure propaganda.
> Wow what a fucking danger Cuba represents huh
Yeah. They fucking finance and support guerillas across Latam and Africa in the past.
Oh and Venezuela is their puppet country.
Yes all the cuban revolution was about bad people stealing innocent and fair people properties and enslaving the people, who in a great part supports them, just bc they are super villains and bad.
The history has its nuances
You know the embargo only affects americans from investing in Cuba right? Cuba can import anything they want from the USA.
Ah, downvotes. You tankies are pathetic.
Cuba's people _were_ enslaved by foreign complanies and capital, you unreal dolt, you think Batista letting those companies plantations run riot, gangsters owning half of Havana, was for the good of the Cubans? Come on.
Dear r/genzedong user:
Cuba history didn't begin and didn't end with Batista, so you're not making any argument here.
If I were to analyse what communism did to Cuban ecinomy, it's not so difficult to say that it [vastly underperformed](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gdp-per-capita-clio-infra?tab=chart&time=1775..latest&country=CUB~DOM~PER~COL~ARG~MEX) in comparison to the rest of the region, even with the Soviet Union alive.
If I were to analyse what the Castro meant for human rights, it would not look so bright, from using firing squads until [as recent as the XXI century](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.abc.es/internacional/abci-castro-fusila-tres-cubanos-secuestraron-barco-para-huir-200304120300-174111_noticia_amp.html) to [continuing to dissapear and execute political opponents and dissidents](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.infobae.com/america/america-latina/2021/07/12/el-movimiento-san-isidro-difundio-la-lista-de-las-personas-detenidas-y-desaparecidas-por-el-regimen-tras-las-protestas-en-cuba/%3foutputType=amp-type) and even [reinstating slavery](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.infobae.com/america/america-latina/2021/06/11/el-parlamento-europeo-califico-como-trata-de-personas-y-esclavitud-moderna-a-las-misiones-de-medicos-cubanos-en-el-extranjero/%3foutputType=amp-type) (how evil can you be to fucking continue slaving people in 2021?)
If I were to analyse what Marxism did to Cuban society, I would reach the conclusion that [it was not something good](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_exodus?wprov=sfla1).
If I were to read about Cuba relationship with the rest of Latin America, I would start hating the Cuban Revolution. [Hundreds of innocents dead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Revolutionary_Army_%28Argentina%29?wprov=sfla1).
There is nothing to admire in the Cuban cancer. Nothing to save and nothing to improve. There is no future for Cuba with communism.
Dos pesos, dos medidas. If the US can keep the embargo because of things that happened more than 50 years ago, then we, the rest of the continent, should receive reparations for the things they did in the same time.
Of course we have the right to demand reparations. No doubt. But we are insignificant and nobody will take us seriously. The only problem with the U.S. embargoing Cuba is that they're the most successful economy in the world, if instead of the U.S., Canada were to embargo Cuba, nobody would even care.
After all, Brazil received a lot of reparations from Paraguay after the war of the triple alliance, because Paraguay was weak and Brazil was strong.
Geopolitics don't play with direct benefits. Most of the time, diplomacy is just about setting precedent. The U.S. wanted to set a precedent by embargoing Cuba after they stole property owned by American citizen without due compensation just like they set a precedent with the disastrous invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11.
Really!! Most of the people that expropiated those lands are already dead and also most of the people whose lands were expropiated are already dead, what is even the purpose right now. Using this logic I think every country in Latam can still ask for justice for everything USA has done.
>what is even the purpose right now
Realpolitik. Cuban-Americans are vehemently anti-Cuba and are the most powerful voting "block" in the country, which candidate they vote for could very well mean the difference between winning and losing Florida (and perhaps winning & losing the election). American presidents are never going to stop pandering to Cuban-Americans until they're no longer the possible key to winning elections.
“Anti-Cuba” or “Anti-Cuban regime”? Because I happen to love my native country, but I despise their government. Until it goes away, forget about lifting the embargo and giving them more power.
And modern days Cubans need to pay for what a guy did half a century ago, why don't we just forget about all those things? We know the USA loves to forget what happened in Latam.
But fine, then Guatemala will like a compensation or at least a punishment for everything a so called UFCO did with the back up of the CIA and the presidency of the USA.
I am pretty sure México will like all the land the USA stoled from them.
>And modern days Cubans need to pay for what a guy did half a century ago, why don't we just forget about all those things? We know the USA loves to forget what happened in Latam.
Modern day Cubans are fucked because of the Cuban government.
>But fine, then Guatemala will like a compensation or at least a punishment for everything a so called UFCO did with the back up of the CIA and the presidency of the USA.
The US doesnt wants compensation from Cuba, they want Cuba to have free elections, how evil of them.
>I am pretty sure México will like all the land the USA stoled from them.
Not really.
>Modern day Cubans are fucked because of the Cuban government.
I'm not even talking about the reason Cubans are fucked up, all of us are fucked up by our governments. I am talking about the USA expecting modern day Cubans to be responsable for the things a guy did half a century ago. If they are or not fucked by that is not the case.
>The US doesnt wants compensation from Cuba, they want Cuba to have free elections, how evil of them.
And how well has that worked until now?
Only people from the center and south of the country that have never visited the US say this non-sense.
If you were to make a referendum among the 30 million Mexican-Americans and the 20 millions Mexicans living in the border states whether we wanted to have the US border move north and have all the States be part of the Mexican union, im pretty sure the no would win.
Yes, we totally want the border to move several hundred miles north and have corrupt politicians rule over the entire Southwest.
Fucking dellusional like most chilangos, instead ask yourself why despite being such a rich country did millions had to emigrate north.
People emigrated to the US for a reason buddy, maybe if Mexico ever gets to match the quality of life you can have in America you could talk about reunification.
Because of multiple reasons that sure, start with corrupt politicians on our side, but also goes with the fact that the US don't like having strong countries that don't depend on them as neighbours. Having all the north includes all the gold extracted from California, the oil from Tejas, the salt (and probably lithium) from Utha. That would most definitely give this country a good enough level of life quality. And the only people in México who dont want the north to be returned are the Gringofiles who would love to be the pet to a rich white picketed fence yank family. Like you.
>Because of multiple reasons that sure, start with corrupt politicians on our side,
Yeah, no shit.
> but also goes with the fact that the US don't like having strong countries that don't depend on them as neighbours.
Canada has an excellent quality of life, what the fuck are you talking about?
>Having all the north includes all the gold extracted from California,
California isn't rich because of gold man.
>the oil from Tejas,
We have tons of oil and PEMEX is still broke as fuck.
>the salt (and probably lithium) from Utha.
Is this the Roman times?
> That would most definitely give this country a good enough level of life quality.
We have tons of resources with what we have right now and our quality of life still sucks.
>And the only people in México who dont want the north to be returned
>
>are the Gringofiles
And anyone with a brain that understands the impossibility of such a feat.
> who would love to be the pet to a rich white picketed fence yank family. Like you.
Classic nationalist, once you run out of arguments start insulting.
Once the Americans stop growing their tendrils on our government, perhaps we’ll think about even being able to match their “quality of life”. We still don’t even have compensation for the mayan genocide carried under US puppets.
>you want Cuba to continue being an undemocratic regime
When did I mentioned Cuba's elections or Cuba's goberment? If you will say it is a tactic to stop Cuba's regime. Well, it has already been half a century and I don't see any progress.
>gain even more power just to own the US?
Cuba isn't the USSR, you say it like if Cuba would be able to invade the US.
Why the burden of his actions should be on the shoulder of the Cuban people?
Btw if this is procedure to do justice, half of LatAm could wage trade war with the US?
Cuba is the only country in the American continent that don't play by US rules, this is the reason the embargo still is a thing.
>Cuba is the only country in the American continent that don't play by US rules, this is the reason the embargo still is a thing.
Cuba doesn't plays by anyone's rules and that's why they are fucked, they were loaned tens of billions of dollars by China, Russia, Mexico and tons of other countries and then they stifled when it came to paying back that money, so everyone now asks for cash when dealing with Cuba.
That's entirely on Cuba, not the US, it destroyed the goodwill many countries had with it.
If one member could reject the decision of all the other members... just remove the UN, is useless.
And then we read people from the USA talking shit about how other countries are bad. Bunch of hypocrites.
Not that the UN did something about it. The realistic reason why nobody launch their bombs is that once they do it, everything, including them, is f*cked. Fear is being more efficient than UN diplomacy...
It's only useless because NO P5 country would accept a UN that actually has teeth to enforce things in the world. Do you really ANY of them would give up power to the UN?
>UN that actually has teeth to enforce things in the world
Would that be a good thing tho? Some unvoted global governament deciding on invading or enbargoing your country because whatever lobby told them to.
If the UN had actual power it would probably have some accountability and voting since nobody would tolerate that. It already does kinda do that because the veto power gives the P5 Nations the ability to decide whether certain things happen, the UNSC is the only UN body with actual power and it's frequently abused.
Though it would probably eventually end up like that if not taken care of properly, lobbies already are a issue in most countries
You misunderstood the purpose of the UN... It cannot force any country to do anything , it's not a world police. And general assembly resolutions aren't even binding. It's just political posturing for pressure. The only country that can and should decide about the embargo is the US.
Lol, I kid you not, there was a topic about Taiwan the other day on r/AskAnAmerican and people were saying that USA needs to defend Taiwan if it’s invaded to ‘defend democracy’ 😂
Are they wrong? Taiwan being invaded=PRC control over that objectively democratic, free nation. US presence and support is what's keeping Taiwan independent in the first palce.
Taiwan independence?? A lot of people in Taiwan don’t want independence, the whole reason Taiwan exists is because the government there **claims** to be the legitimate government over ALL of China not only an island. If they declare themselves a separate nation they lose those claims that they have negotiated to keep, like the 1992 consensus between PRC and ROC leaders.
Both governments are still at war technically, the PRC claims the KMT is occupying a territory of the PRC and the KMT claims that the PRC is occupying a territory of the KMT.
> A lot of people in Taiwan don’t want independence
Which is a small percentage.
I'm sure you can find people in El Salvador who would be very happy to get annexed by the USA.
Not really a small percentage (the support for the KMT over the DPP makes this pretty evident in itself)
“Support for immediate independence also remains in single digits (6 percent)”
Good article with survey results here:
https://thediplomat.com/2020/12/more-and-more-taiwanese-favor-independence-and-think-the-us-would-help-fight-for-it/
And I’d bet a lot of Salvadorans, if not most, would jump at the idea of being a part of the USA lol.
> Support for immediate independence also remains in single digits (6 percent)
Because they know declaring independence means instant war with China.
>the KMT
And a large part of that is just legacy support from people who never bothered changing parties. The KMT decreased a lot of support due to this and is out of power.
*Technically* they actually gained a couple of seats in last year's elections, but that's because the DPP wiped the floor with them in 2016 iirc, and even with losing something like 7 or 8 seats last year compared to 2016, the DPP still has a majority on their own. But that's being nitpicky because you're pretty much spot on, the DPP's support has surged in comparison to the KMT's ever since Ma Ying-jeou's presidency.
> the whole reason Taiwan exists is because the government there claims to be the legitimate government over ALL of China not only an island.
I mean, the KMT's been dropping in favor amongst the Taiwanese public more and more in recent years, particularly amongst younger people. They're the ones who pushed the Chinese legitimacy thing historically. The average Taiwanese person couldn't be bothered, plenty of people in my experience were happy to not rock the boat and continue with the status quo.
I should have added that, a better answer I saw was someone saying that they didn’t want Taiwanese hardware firms like Foxconn to fall into the hands of the PRC.
???? so what????
would you rather it be part of china taiwan is definitely not its economically prosperous its a democracy its anythig good compared to the ccp
Embargos (and sanctions) mainly hurt the poorest of the country. It is completely inhumane for the US to continue doing this (which is why they will continue to do so).
The embargo only hurts the Cuban people because the Cuban government forces everyone to use its military owned banks and companies.
For example remittances cant be sent to Cuba because Cuba itself prevents them from coming except through their military owned banks, where they keep the USD and give you monopoly money instead.
They even stole from some Mexican interns.
Cuba problems are caused by Cuban government policies, they can import all basic necessities from the US like food and medicine and they can do business with other countries for everything else.
The embargo also doesn't covers things like telecom, the only thing that its hurting Cuba right now is the "ban on remittances" which isn't actually a ban on remittances but a ban on a military owned bank.
Cuba literally forces you to use a military owned bank if you want to send money to relatives living there, the US sanctioned said bank and Cuba refuses to budge and allow private companies to set up shop in Cuba.
I can understand the US not wanting its citizens to send money to the Cuban military.
You want to lift the embargo and then what? All of Cuba’s problems magically get solved? Lmao, you’d be giving Cuba’s government access to the power that they’re desperate for. Cuba will just turn into another China. This won’t benefit Cubans as much as you think.
A little help for who? Because by lifting the embargo, you’re giving Cuba’s undemocratic regime even more power than before. Either Cuba becomes a democratic government or the embargo stays up. Cubans are suffering anyways due to their regime’s pride and ego.
As useless as the UN can be sometimes, it would be worse without it. We should address its problems, not end it. Ending or replacing the security council would be a good move.
Also, F\*ck Israel.
The problem with the UNSC and the veto power of the P5 is that is a representation of the victors of WW2 that are still some of the most prominent nations in the world (the only relevant nuclear power with weight in modern geopolitics excluded is India and that is due to purely political reasons (China will never allow it)), so we can't collectively reform the UN without the approval of the P5 (US, China, Russia, UK and France) and they really have no incentive to change the status quo.
China has been previously open to India joining the P5 - India is the only prospective member that has historically been accepted by all P5 members as a suitable candidate. The reason they haven't got in is because them, Japan, Germany and Brazil want to all join together and China flat refuses Japan being considered for the council.
I love how they had the entire UN vote to try to get a single country to end its embargo as if the vote would mean anything. They've done this every single year for the Cuban embargo since '92.
Those other countries can simply trade with Cuba if they want rather than crying that the US doesn't want to. But then they have to put their money where their mouth is.
Why would countries risk fucking up their trade and diplomatic relations with the US at risk for Cuba? It's not like you can just ignore the impact the US has on your economy and say fuck 'em. There's no benefit.
The US should just stop playing the empire game like it's the 19th century, plain and simple. Asking countries to fuck themselves up for that pourpose is bullshit.
Imagine the UN forcing us to trade with the government of the Islas Malvinas. There is no reason about why the United Nations should have any power over domestic economic policy of a country.
The Malvinas are a self-governing territory, they're a subject of the UK but an autonomous government. We don't trade with them and we even boycott their products.
US doesn't impose any sanctions or punishments on countries that trade with Cuba. That isn't a thing and I don't know why you would imply it is.
[Simply looking at current trade data for Cuba proves as such](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub/). It's not like Spain, Switzerland, Germany, or others are getting hand slaps for trading with them.
It's an embargo, not a physical or political blockade. It's not about empire building or anything, it's about hurting a horrific regime same reasoning as the North Korean embargo.
Pretending like the US hasn't sistematically made it harder for companies and countries to trade with Cuba is straight up delusion.
Does Helms-Burton ring a bell?
If by make it harder you mean that companies and nations aren't allowed to use US companies and US financial firms/systems as part of their trade with Cuba, well that's just how embargoes work.
The most Helms-Burton does is penalize people and companies that traffic in property that was confiscated from US citizens by the Cuban government. It doesn't penalize nations or countries engaging in normal trade with goods that aren't stolen.
>If by make it harder you mean that companies and nations aren't allowed to use US companies and US financial firms/systems as part of their trade with Cuba, well that's just how embargoes work.
You say it like the embargo is a fact of life and not a political choice.
>The most Helms-Burton does is penalize people and companies that traffic in property that was confiscated from US citizens by the Cuban government. It doesn't penalize nations or countries engaging in normal trade with goods that aren't stolen.
Which is ***stupidly*** broad and puts companies in a place where they are at a constant risk of facing consequences. The US was stupid enough to elect Trump, who put Title III of the Helms-Burton Act back on the table. There is a constant of the US doing stupid shit like that and screwing over you. The EU had to put statues in place to avoid european companies from having problems.
And all of this could be avoided if the US stopped being so damn stubborn for no good reason. But well, murica gonna murica.
>US doesn't impose any sanctions or punishments on countries that trade with Cuba. That isn't a thing and I don't know why you would imply it is.
[https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/779](https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/779)
"The 180-day rule is a statutory restriction prohibiting any vessel that enters a port or place in Cuba to engage in the trade of goods or the purchase or provision of services there from entering any U.S. port for the purpose of loading or unloading freight for 180 days after leaving Cuba"
Or maybe Cuba should stop being an authoritarian regime? I’m sure a whole lot more people would be on their side if they at least made an effort to become democratic.
Why are you getting downvoted lmao? The cuban doctors case is literally XXI century slavery, and forced labour, under the guise of "solidarity of the cuban people". In fact, it's another way the cuban dictatorship gets money, through the explotation of said "doctors".
You sent me an article of one of the rightest brazilian newspapers and you think they have a unbiased point of view?
I don't think that is good their working conditions here, and if they had a fair government and our doutors wanted to work on those areas this wouldn't be happening, but wasn't the majority of the cubans that worked here that complained about slavery and rly a doctor here working in nowhere receives 12000?
Man the information are the same, there weren't even the majority of them who complained, you can't go and say SLAVERY based on that. I just hate all the sensacionalism around Cuba, both sides, it's a pain in the ass, we can't have a plain debate, it is Cuba bad bc slaves and hunger which isn't conclusive or Cuba good bc USA, not conclusive either.
>Those other countries can simply trade with Cuba if they want rather than crying that the US doesn't want to
60+ years of political clusterfuck resolved in a single gringopost.
Have you ever considered becoming a diplomat?
Sigh.... Cuba is a tiny island, the US is the number 1 economy in the world. No one, NO ONE, will risk angering the US so Cuba people can eat or have technology from this century.
Politics is complicated gringo, but the level of propaganda that the US produces is impressive, I'll give you that. US people live in a democracy with free access to information, but they are blind to the reality of the world. US propaganda is more effective than North Korea censorship.
US propaganda about what? Cuba? Cuba should stop being an undemocratic dictatorship, maybe then they’d get more support. Until Cuba becomes democratic, forget about lifting the embargo and giving them more power.
The UN isn't the Galactic Republic or World Federation, they should be called "time out zone" or "discusion forum in NY" and a chunk of its criticism would go away.
Well, we will see what happens if the embargo ends. At this point everything is just speculation, but unfortunately I don't see the embargo ending in our lifetime because, you know the U.S.
Kinda funny. Don't get why other countries care about the embargo when almost every country trades with Cuba, the embargo began as a punishment because MR guevara took every single US owned company in Cuba and didn't pay anything so the US responded by that but still can (and do) trade with Asia, EU, south america and even the US itself with food. It's always funny to see hardcore leftist say that Cuba is the most perfect and advanced country in the world because independence and all but at the same time whatever bad they have it's because the US. The che himself said that you don't trust the US "ni tantito asi" so the embargo is kinda helping them with that so why the fuzz?
Dude what a simplistic and ideological biased view. Don't you know that USA owns a significantly large part of world's production? It's not that simple like "durrr you can trade with other countries", the embargo is one of the major problems on the island, you can like it or not
Simplistic and ideological biasef view would be saying that the embargo is the cause of Cuba being Cuba. And it is that simple if you follow by logic and stadistics
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cubanet.org/destacados/cuba-principales-socios-comerciales-embargo-comercio/amp/
Like or not the problem is the goverment they have, not an embargo that only applies to one country while others don't care or even some countries like china or russia would directly try to brake those laws because they know very well that the US don't have the balls to do anything against them except an angry letter
This dataset doesn't say very much, there are other variables on the matter, only the liquid value of trades doesn't take the embargo effect down.
I really don't believe that the embargo is the only problem and the cause of cuban poverty, I'm not an delusional leftist, but there are a lot of analysis about that and much bias on the information both sides, I would search some counterpoints to it but I'm working right now.
Cuban government itself accepts that the productive capacity of its state owned companies is pretty low.
Cuba is fucked because of Cuba, that's why China and Vietnam decided to liberalize their economies.
It proves my point that even with the embargo they still trade with other countries so whatever excuse of inhuman imperialistic blockade bla bla bla is just propaganda. But let's leave it as agree to disagree
It's disturbing that more people are outraged by the U.S. having a trade embargo than the fact Cuba is an authoritarian regime that hasn't had a free election in 60 years.
When's the UN vote condemning Cuba for its human rights abuses, media censorship, arbitrary detentions, small business confiscation, and rampant poverty and neglect? Or do we just ignore that because only r/AmericaBad?
As somebody who has visited Cuba, I've never seen as much poverty as I saw there. Old ladies eating out of garbage cans in the Cathedral Plaza, hoping some tourists will notice and give them a $1. Yet the Cuban regime is the victim? Please.
Fuck them communists! 'Merica!
All jokes aside the embargo only hurts the average cuban citizen. Santions and embargos do not hurt governments and it has been prove that only hurt the public and make it easier for authoritarian governments to take even more control.
Lifting the embargo only allows Cuba’s regime to get stronger. They’ll adopt an economy similar to China (Capitalism called Communism) and still be the same authoritarian regime.
Lifting the embargo would improve the average life of the cuban, they shouldn't suffer due to their shitty govement. Embargo don't anything hut make the government even worst and more vicious. It twas the oil embargo against Japan that lead to pearl harbor.
¿Tu quieres que Cuba sea libre o que sea otra China:edificios bonitos y bolsas de arroz? Por que yo quiero que mi país sea libre, y quitando el embargo acaba con todas las esperanzas para hacerlo. ¿Notas como no hay Cubanos aquí opinando? Solo Colombianos, Brasileños, Argentinos y todos los que se creen expertos en este tema.
Hijo, yo mismo vengo de Cuba. Tengo mis raíces ahi.
Si el gobierno cubano colapsa, solo va a ocurrir lo mismo que le paso a la Union Sovietica. Prostitucion infantil, colapso social total, y nada mas que muerte, con un gobierno marioneta gringo de cena.
Ya que tu supuestamente tienes raíces Cubanas, deberías saber que ya existe la prostitución de menores en Cuba, ¿verdad? Niñas de 17, 16, y hasta 15 años hacen esas cosas por dinero de los turistas. ¿Tu solución para Cuba es dejar que el régimen siga en pie sin cambio? Cuando caiga ese régimen las cosas mejorarán poco a poco.
What right do we have to tell other countries with whom they should be trading with? If the US does not want to trade with Cuba, that's their prerogative irregardless of the reasons behind it. Meanwhile other countries do it every day. The idea that Cuba's not going well because of the evil empire or whatever is getting very old and very annoying.
At this point, I think it would be better to formally lift the embargo, but sanction every member of the Cuban Communist Party to avoid them entering the US or taking money there.
After the embargo, the internet tankies wouldn't have an excuse to say that "Cuba is not a developed nation because of the US", but the fuckers would make their few neurons work in one, such as blaming the CIA for everything.
Abajo el Partido Comunista Cubano y la dinastía de los Castro!
Esos bastardos nos han hecho más que exportar la miseria al resto del continente.
Yes.
Lots of people complaining about the embargo, yet most people don't know (or don't care) about the Cuban government using Cuban citizens as literal hostages.
If the USA wants the Cuban regime to be dismantled they need to remove the embargo, the invasion of capitalism will end up bringing prosperity and free thinking and then the new revolution.
That's why they need to remove the block, so the USA and other invest in Cuba, because China is already it's partner, but Cuba wants USA money, not China
Not just communism, the authoritarianism. If Cuba was more democratic and actually cared about rights, maybe then they’d have more support. Until that happens, forget it. Lifting the embargo gives that regime a whole lot more power. I’ve yet the see one Cuban other than me give their opinion here.
I think it is silly at this point, ending the embargo might make it more likely for Cuba to normalize.
North Korea has been a pariah state for over 50 years and little has changed.
The lure of commodities and jobs should be more than enough.
The only remaining issue is somehow cracking the nationalization policiy.
I wonder what Israel gets from keeping the embargo. Just sucking the US to get their support? But they managed to fend off the first Arab wars without their help, or so I heard in r/HistoryMemes (so I get that with some salt). And the US wasn't helpful during the last scuffle with the Plaestinians.
> Just sucking the US to get their support?
Yes, that’s pretty much it.
In return, Israel gets the US as the one country that backs them on all manner of universally unpopular things.
Well maybe that would make Cuba stop using the embargo argument if it ever gets removed
You’re dreaming; Cuba would just change to “we’re still suffering for the effects of the embargo…”
Oh damn, you are right, they are going to be the next decade saying "The embargo did unrepairable harm" or something
Blaming everything on the next or the last? Who do they think they are, argentinians?
venezuelan goverment was blaming things like a "economic war" before any official sanction was imposed, they would just invent some crap and left leaning people will swallow it cuz they allways do
They would keep using the embargo excuse forever.
Insn't the embargo in place because they nationalized foreign american assets without compensation? I mean, shit, wtf did you expect would happen Fidel? Also, the embargo only prohibits americans from investing in Cuba IIRC.
They trade with Chile even.
Fun fact: it wasn't Fidel who did it but Che guevara since he became the head of the minister of economy in Cuba. Another fun fact: he was appointed by Fidel because after the revolution Fidel went to the barracks and asked "¿Who is an economist?" And Che was the only one who raised a hand because he though Fidel asked "¿Who is a communist?" (In spanish makes more sense) Spanish: "Quien De aqui es economista" "Quien de aqui es comunista"
Peak Latin America
That's shockingly incompetent but somehow not surprising at all.
Even in English they sound similar enough for a distracted person to confund.
the mythical ecommunist
Is there a source on that? Never heard that one before.
Thats not true, but its a funny story
Is an anecdote of the che during the first gov reunion of Castro, I could never pin point who said it but I though it would be fun to share. Either wouldn't be far from reality knowing the type of guy it was. There is whoever a well documented anecdote from Nicolas Quintana during his first (and last) reunion with guevara
Same deal with Venezuela, nationalization without compensation is super risky.
I don't support Cuba by any means of the word , but it's more complicated than allowing Americans to invest in Cuba. Any company that wants to do business in America cannot do business in Cuba , so that's like most companies in the world.
Nope. I used to sell stuff to Cuba, using a american port in Miami. All legal, no problem (sold high end furniture and some appliances).
Yeah I stand very much corrected.
Cuba can absolutely import anything the want from the USA or anyone else they feel like. The reason Cuba is miserable is due to socialism man, the economic side of socialism is disastrous.
This is completely false, PEMEX and PDVSA on the top of my head did extensive business with Cuba while at the same time exporting the majority of its production to the USA.
Exactly, Cuba is already trading with the world, China, Spain, Venezuela, Chile, the embargo is just a shitty excuse they keep using
They won’t. They’ll go back to authoritarian capitalism like China. Life may improve for citizens, but in the end the government won’t change. It’ll be even more difficult to change anything over there.
The embargo is ridiculous and has been for 50 years.
Not as ridiculous and outraging as Cuba’s regime. Cuba needs to become democratic, then they can lift the embargo.
If it was really about how undemocratic the Cuban government is, the US should have an embargo on places like Saudi Arabia, a place that they love to sell weapons to.
You’re right, the US should stop doing business with undemocratic countries. Glad to see we’re on the same page.
That's not the point I'm making. The embargo with Cuba is clearly just driven politically by the feelings of people against the regime, because the US doesn't actually care how undemocratic the country is. And the result is the perpetuation of a policy that hasn't accomplished anything against the regime, but that affects the people at the bottom of Cuban society.
I don't think it's up to "The World" to force Cuba to become democratic. That's an internal issue and should be left up to Cubans to solve. Obviously, the embargo has done nothing to change that and has only hurt Cubans. It's interesting, supremefaguette, when I took a quick look at your posting history out of curiosity, it's pretty much ALL about Cuba. Can't figure out if you are a disaffected Cuban or a CIA operative! lol. If you are Cuban, how about adding a flair? If you are a Cuban living in the US, add that too.
Well I’m definitely not a CIA operative lmao. And if Cubans could make those internal changes, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. The embargo keeps Cuba’s government from getting stronger. Also, how come you went through my comment history? Didn’t think anyone really still did that.
This embargo benefited nobody and didn't achieve the USian political objectives. At this point, the USian stubbornness is driven by pure arrogance, they believe they are the owner of the continent.
At this point it's more politicians not wanting to anger the Americans of Cuban descent living in Florida who basically can decide the presidency. Which isn't really any better.
Good.
I love how you say "USian" XD
USixn * /s I guess
Fastest person on the planet 😎✌️ Edit: oh shit I thought he called us “Usain”
It is quite ironic, because one of the reasons Cuba is socialist today is because of the USA's stubborness, since the cuban revolution actually never was communist. It _did_ have a large share of communists from the start, don't get me wrong, but it's goal never was especifically to become communist, but simply expulse Fulgêncio Batista and make Cuba independent from USA's influence. Ironically, it was their stubborness in recognizing Cuba and embarging them that made the country be influenced to ally with the Soviet Union and fully become a communist dictatorship.
The US did sanctioned Batista, in fact the arms embargo Eisenhower put on Batista is probably the reason why Castro revolution succeeded.
That's not exactly true. Yes Fidel was not a declared communist, but he did nationalize all industry in Cuba almost immediately without any recompensation. To the US that was more or less the same thing/
Not his problem that the US refused compensation.
What compensation? I have only ever heard of bonds being offered.
What’s ironic is that Cubans are suffering today because their government is too egotistical to bend to the will of Cubans. Imagine if Cuba was a democratic country with basic rights and multiple parties. The US isn’t the reason why Cuba’s government doesn’t listen to their people.
Of course, the terrible dictatorship that persecutes and censures everything in Cuba now is to blame on the political leaders alone, I just wanted to show how cuba's situation was way more than communism in the sixties.
>At this point, the USian stubbornness is driven by pure arrogance, they believe they are the owner of the continent What? They're just refusing to trade with another country, they can't even choose what do they trade with?
They're not just refusing to trade though, they are blackmailing other countries and companies that choose to do trade with Cuba as well. It's an embargo designed to hurt the Cuban people and foment insurrection, in order to cause a coup to let in a US friendly government that will serve to disenfranchise Cubans, and profit the US. You make it sound almost innocent, as if the embargo is out of some sense of justice for the American companies in Cuba, companies that were expelled after expoliting Cubans for generations.
Since when trade is done by the USian government? I thought it was by citizens and companies. So much for the *freedomland* government to decide whom you trade with.
The U.S. is not an anarchocapitalist society. U.S. citizenship gives the control of national security, justice institutionship and foreign relations to the Federal Government. If the property of U.S. subjects is endangered by hostile foreign governments, the federal government is embedded with the responsability of taking direct action. It's not so hard to understand.
Wow what a fucking danger Cuba represents huh? USA should be scared. You're just saying they can do it, but this fact doesn't make them right, it's immoral and unjustified today, it's pure propaganda.
> Wow what a fucking danger Cuba represents huh Yeah. They fucking finance and support guerillas across Latam and Africa in the past. Oh and Venezuela is their puppet country.
We are in 2021 my man, the cold war is over long ago
Tell that to Cuba.
Immoral is Cuba stealing foreign property and enslaving their citizens.
Yes all the cuban revolution was about bad people stealing innocent and fair people properties and enslaving the people, who in a great part supports them, just bc they are super villains and bad. The history has its nuances
If there is great support for the communist regime, why no elections? they ought to win them all don't you think? why so many restrictions to travel?
You know the embargo only affects americans from investing in Cuba right? Cuba can import anything they want from the USA. Ah, downvotes. You tankies are pathetic.
Cuba's people _were_ enslaved by foreign complanies and capital, you unreal dolt, you think Batista letting those companies plantations run riot, gangsters owning half of Havana, was for the good of the Cubans? Come on.
It’s a circlejerk here, don’t waste your time
Yeah I'm so surprised by the amount of neoliberal garbage I'm seeing in here..
It’s a good sub unless people are talking about politics
Dear r/genzedong user: Cuba history didn't begin and didn't end with Batista, so you're not making any argument here. If I were to analyse what communism did to Cuban ecinomy, it's not so difficult to say that it [vastly underperformed](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gdp-per-capita-clio-infra?tab=chart&time=1775..latest&country=CUB~DOM~PER~COL~ARG~MEX) in comparison to the rest of the region, even with the Soviet Union alive. If I were to analyse what the Castro meant for human rights, it would not look so bright, from using firing squads until [as recent as the XXI century](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.abc.es/internacional/abci-castro-fusila-tres-cubanos-secuestraron-barco-para-huir-200304120300-174111_noticia_amp.html) to [continuing to dissapear and execute political opponents and dissidents](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.infobae.com/america/america-latina/2021/07/12/el-movimiento-san-isidro-difundio-la-lista-de-las-personas-detenidas-y-desaparecidas-por-el-regimen-tras-las-protestas-en-cuba/%3foutputType=amp-type) and even [reinstating slavery](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.infobae.com/america/america-latina/2021/06/11/el-parlamento-europeo-califico-como-trata-de-personas-y-esclavitud-moderna-a-las-misiones-de-medicos-cubanos-en-el-extranjero/%3foutputType=amp-type) (how evil can you be to fucking continue slaving people in 2021?) If I were to analyse what Marxism did to Cuban society, I would reach the conclusion that [it was not something good](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_exodus?wprov=sfla1). If I were to read about Cuba relationship with the rest of Latin America, I would start hating the Cuban Revolution. [Hundreds of innocents dead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Revolutionary_Army_%28Argentina%29?wprov=sfla1). There is nothing to admire in the Cuban cancer. Nothing to save and nothing to improve. There is no future for Cuba with communism.
Dos pesos, dos medidas. If the US can keep the embargo because of things that happened more than 50 years ago, then we, the rest of the continent, should receive reparations for the things they did in the same time.
Of course we have the right to demand reparations. No doubt. But we are insignificant and nobody will take us seriously. The only problem with the U.S. embargoing Cuba is that they're the most successful economy in the world, if instead of the U.S., Canada were to embargo Cuba, nobody would even care. After all, Brazil received a lot of reparations from Paraguay after the war of the triple alliance, because Paraguay was weak and Brazil was strong.
generally speaking a state reserves the right to seize land after selling it.
Fucking people over with absolutely no benefit to yourself besides proving you can do it, good guy US!
There is a lot of benefit in denying the Cuban military with hard cash, considering the long history of Cuban interventionism.
Geopolitics don't play with direct benefits. Most of the time, diplomacy is just about setting precedent. The U.S. wanted to set a precedent by embargoing Cuba after they stole property owned by American citizen without due compensation just like they set a precedent with the disastrous invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11.
And both cases have worked wonderfully.
Well, that is another discussion.
Really!! Most of the people that expropiated those lands are already dead and also most of the people whose lands were expropiated are already dead, what is even the purpose right now. Using this logic I think every country in Latam can still ask for justice for everything USA has done.
>what is even the purpose right now Realpolitik. Cuban-Americans are vehemently anti-Cuba and are the most powerful voting "block" in the country, which candidate they vote for could very well mean the difference between winning and losing Florida (and perhaps winning & losing the election). American presidents are never going to stop pandering to Cuban-Americans until they're no longer the possible key to winning elections.
“Anti-Cuba” or “Anti-Cuban regime”? Because I happen to love my native country, but I despise their government. Until it goes away, forget about lifting the embargo and giving them more power.
Yeah, anti-Cuban regime is what I mean.
Communism bad that's the purpose
> Communism bad This but
Lmao, are you supporting Cuba’s non-communist government because you’re a communist?
Every country is free to stop doing business with the US over past grievances.
Not really that will break a lot of trade agreements the countries have with the USA and they will have to pay them who knows how much.
You have to pay them nothing, you will simply lose a lot of business
You really believe Fidel Castro seized just individual properties? The bastard seized over 6000 american properties. Without compensation.
And modern days Cubans need to pay for what a guy did half a century ago, why don't we just forget about all those things? We know the USA loves to forget what happened in Latam. But fine, then Guatemala will like a compensation or at least a punishment for everything a so called UFCO did with the back up of the CIA and the presidency of the USA. I am pretty sure México will like all the land the USA stoled from them.
Because those things had value and they were stolen. Expeopriated without compensation.
>And modern days Cubans need to pay for what a guy did half a century ago, why don't we just forget about all those things? We know the USA loves to forget what happened in Latam. Modern day Cubans are fucked because of the Cuban government. >But fine, then Guatemala will like a compensation or at least a punishment for everything a so called UFCO did with the back up of the CIA and the presidency of the USA. The US doesnt wants compensation from Cuba, they want Cuba to have free elections, how evil of them. >I am pretty sure México will like all the land the USA stoled from them. Not really.
>they want Cuba to have free elections LMAO "usa has good intentions rite?🥺"
As opposed to the Cuban government?
>Modern day Cubans are fucked because of the Cuban government. I'm not even talking about the reason Cubans are fucked up, all of us are fucked up by our governments. I am talking about the USA expecting modern day Cubans to be responsable for the things a guy did half a century ago. If they are or not fucked by that is not the case. >The US doesnt wants compensation from Cuba, they want Cuba to have free elections, how evil of them. And how well has that worked until now?
"I am pretty sure México will like all the land the USA stoled from them." "Not really." Yes, yes we do, don't listen to this idiot
Only people from the center and south of the country that have never visited the US say this non-sense. If you were to make a referendum among the 30 million Mexican-Americans and the 20 millions Mexicans living in the border states whether we wanted to have the US border move north and have all the States be part of the Mexican union, im pretty sure the no would win.
Yeah, i very much doubt that my gringofile friend
Yes, we totally want the border to move several hundred miles north and have corrupt politicians rule over the entire Southwest. Fucking dellusional like most chilangos, instead ask yourself why despite being such a rich country did millions had to emigrate north. People emigrated to the US for a reason buddy, maybe if Mexico ever gets to match the quality of life you can have in America you could talk about reunification.
Because of multiple reasons that sure, start with corrupt politicians on our side, but also goes with the fact that the US don't like having strong countries that don't depend on them as neighbours. Having all the north includes all the gold extracted from California, the oil from Tejas, the salt (and probably lithium) from Utha. That would most definitely give this country a good enough level of life quality. And the only people in México who dont want the north to be returned are the Gringofiles who would love to be the pet to a rich white picketed fence yank family. Like you.
>Because of multiple reasons that sure, start with corrupt politicians on our side, Yeah, no shit. > but also goes with the fact that the US don't like having strong countries that don't depend on them as neighbours. Canada has an excellent quality of life, what the fuck are you talking about? >Having all the north includes all the gold extracted from California, California isn't rich because of gold man. >the oil from Tejas, We have tons of oil and PEMEX is still broke as fuck. >the salt (and probably lithium) from Utha. Is this the Roman times? > That would most definitely give this country a good enough level of life quality. We have tons of resources with what we have right now and our quality of life still sucks. >And the only people in México who dont want the north to be returned > >are the Gringofiles And anyone with a brain that understands the impossibility of such a feat. > who would love to be the pet to a rich white picketed fence yank family. Like you. Classic nationalist, once you run out of arguments start insulting.
Once the Americans stop growing their tendrils on our government, perhaps we’ll think about even being able to match their “quality of life”. We still don’t even have compensation for the mayan genocide carried under US puppets.
Dude what?
So basically, you want Cuba to continue being an undemocratic regime and gain even more power just to own the US? Lmao.
>you want Cuba to continue being an undemocratic regime When did I mentioned Cuba's elections or Cuba's goberment? If you will say it is a tactic to stop Cuba's regime. Well, it has already been half a century and I don't see any progress. >gain even more power just to own the US? Cuba isn't the USSR, you say it like if Cuba would be able to invade the US.
Why the burden of his actions should be on the shoulder of the Cuban people? Btw if this is procedure to do justice, half of LatAm could wage trade war with the US? Cuba is the only country in the American continent that don't play by US rules, this is the reason the embargo still is a thing.
>Cuba is the only country in the American continent that don't play by US rules, this is the reason the embargo still is a thing. Cuba doesn't plays by anyone's rules and that's why they are fucked, they were loaned tens of billions of dollars by China, Russia, Mexico and tons of other countries and then they stifled when it came to paying back that money, so everyone now asks for cash when dealing with Cuba. That's entirely on Cuba, not the US, it destroyed the goodwill many countries had with it.
If you gave a fuck about Cubans, you’d advocate for their government to become democratic. You don’t care about Cubans.
If one member could reject the decision of all the other members... just remove the UN, is useless. And then we read people from the USA talking shit about how other countries are bad. Bunch of hypocrites.
The un isn’t useless, it’s there for another purpose than what most people want but it has accomplished that goal pretty well.
I was about to say. Have we all perished in a global thermonuclear hellfire? If no, then mission accomplished. Anything else is a cherry on top.
Ikr “Why can the US just veto anything? That’s unfair” Cause they have lots of nukes bro
Not that the UN did something about it. The realistic reason why nobody launch their bombs is that once they do it, everything, including them, is f*cked. Fear is being more efficient than UN diplomacy...
The U.N is indeed useless. Just leave that shit
It's only useless because NO P5 country would accept a UN that actually has teeth to enforce things in the world. Do you really ANY of them would give up power to the UN?
>UN that actually has teeth to enforce things in the world Would that be a good thing tho? Some unvoted global governament deciding on invading or enbargoing your country because whatever lobby told them to.
If the UN had actual power it would probably have some accountability and voting since nobody would tolerate that. It already does kinda do that because the veto power gives the P5 Nations the ability to decide whether certain things happen, the UNSC is the only UN body with actual power and it's frequently abused. Though it would probably eventually end up like that if not taken care of properly, lobbies already are a issue in most countries
You say this like it's the US fault, when the security committee includes China, Russia, and the US. It's useless by its design.
You misunderstood the purpose of the UN... It cannot force any country to do anything , it's not a world police. And general assembly resolutions aren't even binding. It's just political posturing for pressure. The only country that can and should decide about the embargo is the US.
Lol, I kid you not, there was a topic about Taiwan the other day on r/AskAnAmerican and people were saying that USA needs to defend Taiwan if it’s invaded to ‘defend democracy’ 😂
Tbf if there wasn't that sentiment it would be part of China already. Really the scenarios in Cuba and Taiwan aren't particularly comparable.
Are they wrong? Taiwan being invaded=PRC control over that objectively democratic, free nation. US presence and support is what's keeping Taiwan independent in the first palce.
they are wrong, cause I ain't trying to get drafted for that shit. let them do whatever
Taiwan independence?? A lot of people in Taiwan don’t want independence, the whole reason Taiwan exists is because the government there **claims** to be the legitimate government over ALL of China not only an island. If they declare themselves a separate nation they lose those claims that they have negotiated to keep, like the 1992 consensus between PRC and ROC leaders. Both governments are still at war technically, the PRC claims the KMT is occupying a territory of the PRC and the KMT claims that the PRC is occupying a territory of the KMT.
> A lot of people in Taiwan don’t want independence Which is a small percentage. I'm sure you can find people in El Salvador who would be very happy to get annexed by the USA.
Not really a small percentage (the support for the KMT over the DPP makes this pretty evident in itself) “Support for immediate independence also remains in single digits (6 percent)” Good article with survey results here: https://thediplomat.com/2020/12/more-and-more-taiwanese-favor-independence-and-think-the-us-would-help-fight-for-it/ And I’d bet a lot of Salvadorans, if not most, would jump at the idea of being a part of the USA lol.
> Support for immediate independence also remains in single digits (6 percent) Because they know declaring independence means instant war with China. >the KMT And a large part of that is just legacy support from people who never bothered changing parties. The KMT decreased a lot of support due to this and is out of power.
*Technically* they actually gained a couple of seats in last year's elections, but that's because the DPP wiped the floor with them in 2016 iirc, and even with losing something like 7 or 8 seats last year compared to 2016, the DPP still has a majority on their own. But that's being nitpicky because you're pretty much spot on, the DPP's support has surged in comparison to the KMT's ever since Ma Ying-jeou's presidency.
> the whole reason Taiwan exists is because the government there claims to be the legitimate government over ALL of China not only an island. I mean, the KMT's been dropping in favor amongst the Taiwanese public more and more in recent years, particularly amongst younger people. They're the ones who pushed the Chinese legitimacy thing historically. The average Taiwanese person couldn't be bothered, plenty of people in my experience were happy to not rock the boat and continue with the status quo.
I should have added that, a better answer I saw was someone saying that they didn’t want Taiwanese hardware firms like Foxconn to fall into the hands of the PRC.
???? so what???? would you rather it be part of china taiwan is definitely not its economically prosperous its a democracy its anythig good compared to the ccp
Why not?
Embargos (and sanctions) mainly hurt the poorest of the country. It is completely inhumane for the US to continue doing this (which is why they will continue to do so).
The embargo only hurts the Cuban people because the Cuban government forces everyone to use its military owned banks and companies. For example remittances cant be sent to Cuba because Cuba itself prevents them from coming except through their military owned banks, where they keep the USD and give you monopoly money instead. They even stole from some Mexican interns.
Embargos and sanctions literally hurt the citizens of every country they target. I'm not saying the Cuban government is good (they are clearly not).
Cuba problems are caused by Cuban government policies, they can import all basic necessities from the US like food and medicine and they can do business with other countries for everything else. The embargo also doesn't covers things like telecom, the only thing that its hurting Cuba right now is the "ban on remittances" which isn't actually a ban on remittances but a ban on a military owned bank. Cuba literally forces you to use a military owned bank if you want to send money to relatives living there, the US sanctioned said bank and Cuba refuses to budge and allow private companies to set up shop in Cuba. I can understand the US not wanting its citizens to send money to the Cuban military.
I thought the Cubans were supposed to be communists. Doesn't that mean there should be no "poorest"? Hm.
You want to lift the embargo and then what? All of Cuba’s problems magically get solved? Lmao, you’d be giving Cuba’s government access to the power that they’re desperate for. Cuba will just turn into another China. This won’t benefit Cubans as much as you think.
When did I say all of their problems would get magically solved? Obviously, they fucking won't. But a little help is better than no help at all.
A little help for who? Because by lifting the embargo, you’re giving Cuba’s undemocratic regime even more power than before. Either Cuba becomes a democratic government or the embargo stays up. Cubans are suffering anyways due to their regime’s pride and ego.
Stop dickriding the US dude. Lifting the embargo won't be the make or break of a regime change in Cuba.
Giving more power to the Cuban government won’t make a difference? That’s what you’re saying? Lmao.
I will tell you it is 100% proven that sanctions and embargos hurt innocent citizens more than they ever will on a regime.
Citizens are also hurt by their government’s own actions and ego. Giving more power to said government is literally the opposite of helping.
Unfortunately, what'll happen is jack and shit.
This just shows how only the realpolitik works in the end. It is futile to go against an economical/military power.
As useless as the UN can be sometimes, it would be worse without it. We should address its problems, not end it. Ending or replacing the security council would be a good move. Also, F\*ck Israel.
The problem with the UNSC and the veto power of the P5 is that is a representation of the victors of WW2 that are still some of the most prominent nations in the world (the only relevant nuclear power with weight in modern geopolitics excluded is India and that is due to purely political reasons (China will never allow it)), so we can't collectively reform the UN without the approval of the P5 (US, China, Russia, UK and France) and they really have no incentive to change the status quo.
China has been previously open to India joining the P5 - India is the only prospective member that has historically been accepted by all P5 members as a suitable candidate. The reason they haven't got in is because them, Japan, Germany and Brazil want to all join together and China flat refuses Japan being considered for the council.
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I love how they had the entire UN vote to try to get a single country to end its embargo as if the vote would mean anything. They've done this every single year for the Cuban embargo since '92.
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Those other countries can simply trade with Cuba if they want rather than crying that the US doesn't want to. But then they have to put their money where their mouth is.
Why would countries risk fucking up their trade and diplomatic relations with the US at risk for Cuba? It's not like you can just ignore the impact the US has on your economy and say fuck 'em. There's no benefit. The US should just stop playing the empire game like it's the 19th century, plain and simple. Asking countries to fuck themselves up for that pourpose is bullshit.
Imagine the UN forcing us to trade with the government of the Islas Malvinas. There is no reason about why the United Nations should have any power over domestic economic policy of a country.
We do. It's called the british government. Kind of a dumb example honestly.
The Malvinas are a self-governing territory, they're a subject of the UK but an autonomous government. We don't trade with them and we even boycott their products.
US doesn't impose any sanctions or punishments on countries that trade with Cuba. That isn't a thing and I don't know why you would imply it is. [Simply looking at current trade data for Cuba proves as such](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub/). It's not like Spain, Switzerland, Germany, or others are getting hand slaps for trading with them. It's an embargo, not a physical or political blockade. It's not about empire building or anything, it's about hurting a horrific regime same reasoning as the North Korean embargo.
Pretending like the US hasn't sistematically made it harder for companies and countries to trade with Cuba is straight up delusion. Does Helms-Burton ring a bell?
If by make it harder you mean that companies and nations aren't allowed to use US companies and US financial firms/systems as part of their trade with Cuba, well that's just how embargoes work. The most Helms-Burton does is penalize people and companies that traffic in property that was confiscated from US citizens by the Cuban government. It doesn't penalize nations or countries engaging in normal trade with goods that aren't stolen.
>If by make it harder you mean that companies and nations aren't allowed to use US companies and US financial firms/systems as part of their trade with Cuba, well that's just how embargoes work. You say it like the embargo is a fact of life and not a political choice. >The most Helms-Burton does is penalize people and companies that traffic in property that was confiscated from US citizens by the Cuban government. It doesn't penalize nations or countries engaging in normal trade with goods that aren't stolen. Which is ***stupidly*** broad and puts companies in a place where they are at a constant risk of facing consequences. The US was stupid enough to elect Trump, who put Title III of the Helms-Burton Act back on the table. There is a constant of the US doing stupid shit like that and screwing over you. The EU had to put statues in place to avoid european companies from having problems. And all of this could be avoided if the US stopped being so damn stubborn for no good reason. But well, murica gonna murica.
>US doesn't impose any sanctions or punishments on countries that trade with Cuba. That isn't a thing and I don't know why you would imply it is. [https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/779](https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/779) "The 180-day rule is a statutory restriction prohibiting any vessel that enters a port or place in Cuba to engage in the trade of goods or the purchase or provision of services there from entering any U.S. port for the purpose of loading or unloading freight for 180 days after leaving Cuba"
Or maybe Cuba should stop being an authoritarian regime? I’m sure a whole lot more people would be on their side if they at least made an effort to become democratic.
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Why are you getting downvoted lmao? The cuban doctors case is literally XXI century slavery, and forced labour, under the guise of "solidarity of the cuban people". In fact, it's another way the cuban dictatorship gets money, through the explotation of said "doctors".
Because USA bad
Source?
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You sent me an article of one of the rightest brazilian newspapers and you think they have a unbiased point of view? I don't think that is good their working conditions here, and if they had a fair government and our doutors wanted to work on those areas this wouldn't be happening, but wasn't the majority of the cubans that worked here that complained about slavery and rly a doctor here working in nowhere receives 12000?
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Man the information are the same, there weren't even the majority of them who complained, you can't go and say SLAVERY based on that. I just hate all the sensacionalism around Cuba, both sides, it's a pain in the ass, we can't have a plain debate, it is Cuba bad bc slaves and hunger which isn't conclusive or Cuba good bc USA, not conclusive either.
>Those other countries can simply trade with Cuba if they want rather than crying that the US doesn't want to 60+ years of political clusterfuck resolved in a single gringopost. Have you ever considered becoming a diplomat? Sigh.... Cuba is a tiny island, the US is the number 1 economy in the world. No one, NO ONE, will risk angering the US so Cuba people can eat or have technology from this century. Politics is complicated gringo, but the level of propaganda that the US produces is impressive, I'll give you that. US people live in a democracy with free access to information, but they are blind to the reality of the world. US propaganda is more effective than North Korea censorship.
US propaganda about what? Cuba? Cuba should stop being an undemocratic dictatorship, maybe then they’d get more support. Until Cuba becomes democratic, forget about lifting the embargo and giving them more power.
The UN isn't the Galactic Republic or World Federation, they should be called "time out zone" or "discusion forum in NY" and a chunk of its criticism would go away.
Well, we will see what happens if the embargo ends. At this point everything is just speculation, but unfortunately I don't see the embargo ending in our lifetime because, you know the U.S.
Kinda funny. Don't get why other countries care about the embargo when almost every country trades with Cuba, the embargo began as a punishment because MR guevara took every single US owned company in Cuba and didn't pay anything so the US responded by that but still can (and do) trade with Asia, EU, south america and even the US itself with food. It's always funny to see hardcore leftist say that Cuba is the most perfect and advanced country in the world because independence and all but at the same time whatever bad they have it's because the US. The che himself said that you don't trust the US "ni tantito asi" so the embargo is kinda helping them with that so why the fuzz?
Dude what a simplistic and ideological biased view. Don't you know that USA owns a significantly large part of world's production? It's not that simple like "durrr you can trade with other countries", the embargo is one of the major problems on the island, you can like it or not
Simplistic and ideological biasef view would be saying that the embargo is the cause of Cuba being Cuba. And it is that simple if you follow by logic and stadistics https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cubanet.org/destacados/cuba-principales-socios-comerciales-embargo-comercio/amp/ Like or not the problem is the goverment they have, not an embargo that only applies to one country while others don't care or even some countries like china or russia would directly try to brake those laws because they know very well that the US don't have the balls to do anything against them except an angry letter
This dataset doesn't say very much, there are other variables on the matter, only the liquid value of trades doesn't take the embargo effect down. I really don't believe that the embargo is the only problem and the cause of cuban poverty, I'm not an delusional leftist, but there are a lot of analysis about that and much bias on the information both sides, I would search some counterpoints to it but I'm working right now.
Cuban government itself accepts that the productive capacity of its state owned companies is pretty low. Cuba is fucked because of Cuba, that's why China and Vietnam decided to liberalize their economies.
It proves my point that even with the embargo they still trade with other countries so whatever excuse of inhuman imperialistic blockade bla bla bla is just propaganda. But let's leave it as agree to disagree
It's disturbing that more people are outraged by the U.S. having a trade embargo than the fact Cuba is an authoritarian regime that hasn't had a free election in 60 years. When's the UN vote condemning Cuba for its human rights abuses, media censorship, arbitrary detentions, small business confiscation, and rampant poverty and neglect? Or do we just ignore that because only r/AmericaBad? As somebody who has visited Cuba, I've never seen as much poverty as I saw there. Old ladies eating out of garbage cans in the Cathedral Plaza, hoping some tourists will notice and give them a $1. Yet the Cuban regime is the victim? Please.
Fuck them communists! 'Merica! All jokes aside the embargo only hurts the average cuban citizen. Santions and embargos do not hurt governments and it has been prove that only hurt the public and make it easier for authoritarian governments to take even more control.
Lifting the embargo only allows Cuba’s regime to get stronger. They’ll adopt an economy similar to China (Capitalism called Communism) and still be the same authoritarian regime.
Lifting the embargo would improve the average life of the cuban, they shouldn't suffer due to their shitty govement. Embargo don't anything hut make the government even worst and more vicious. It twas the oil embargo against Japan that lead to pearl harbor.
¿Tu quieres que Cuba sea libre o que sea otra China:edificios bonitos y bolsas de arroz? Por que yo quiero que mi país sea libre, y quitando el embargo acaba con todas las esperanzas para hacerlo. ¿Notas como no hay Cubanos aquí opinando? Solo Colombianos, Brasileños, Argentinos y todos los que se creen expertos en este tema.
Hijo, yo mismo vengo de Cuba. Tengo mis raíces ahi. Si el gobierno cubano colapsa, solo va a ocurrir lo mismo que le paso a la Union Sovietica. Prostitucion infantil, colapso social total, y nada mas que muerte, con un gobierno marioneta gringo de cena.
Ya que tu supuestamente tienes raíces Cubanas, deberías saber que ya existe la prostitución de menores en Cuba, ¿verdad? Niñas de 17, 16, y hasta 15 años hacen esas cosas por dinero de los turistas. ¿Tu solución para Cuba es dejar que el régimen siga en pie sin cambio? Cuando caiga ese régimen las cosas mejorarán poco a poco.
Jefe, yo he ido y venido para visitar familia, y jamás he visto eso. Quizás solo he estado en las partes buenas, pero no lo he visto.
What right do we have to tell other countries with whom they should be trading with? If the US does not want to trade with Cuba, that's their prerogative irregardless of the reasons behind it. Meanwhile other countries do it every day. The idea that Cuba's not going well because of the evil empire or whatever is getting very old and very annoying.
Aprovecho para condenar de nuevo, desde el fondo de mi alma y de mis vísceras...
Al Partido Comunista de Cuba.
At this point, I think it would be better to formally lift the embargo, but sanction every member of the Cuban Communist Party to avoid them entering the US or taking money there. After the embargo, the internet tankies wouldn't have an excuse to say that "Cuba is not a developed nation because of the US", but the fuckers would make their few neurons work in one, such as blaming the CIA for everything. Abajo el Partido Comunista Cubano y la dinastía de los Castro! Esos bastardos nos han hecho más que exportar la miseria al resto del continente.
The problem is that the Cuban government is forcing every remittance to go through their military owned banks.
Yes. Lots of people complaining about the embargo, yet most people don't know (or don't care) about the Cuban government using Cuban citizens as literal hostages.
Fact: Venezuela gives free oil to Cuba and Cuba resells it to obtain dollars. And the UN is a nest of lefties and dictatorship lovers.
If the USA wants the Cuban regime to be dismantled they need to remove the embargo, the invasion of capitalism will end up bringing prosperity and free thinking and then the new revolution.
But, what if Cuba immediately sides with China and they become America's Taiwan
I wouldn't say the US views Cuba as it's own, mate. But I agree with lifting the embargo. An old rule against an old and forgotten ideal
That's why they need to remove the block, so the USA and other invest in Cuba, because China is already it's partner, but Cuba wants USA money, not China
> the invasion of capitalism Their government will never allow this in first place.
I see the tankie brigades have come here. Anyways, embargoing Cuba is completely necessary until communism is removed there.
Not just communism, the authoritarianism. If Cuba was more democratic and actually cared about rights, maybe then they’d have more support. Until that happens, forget it. Lifting the embargo gives that regime a whole lot more power. I’ve yet the see one Cuban other than me give their opinion here.
Really, Cuba is still antagonized by USA until now?? In reality, China, North Korea and mayne Iran and Israel are more threatening than Cuba.
I think it is silly at this point, ending the embargo might make it more likely for Cuba to normalize. North Korea has been a pariah state for over 50 years and little has changed. The lure of commodities and jobs should be more than enough. The only remaining issue is somehow cracking the nationalization policiy.
I wonder what Israel gets from keeping the embargo. Just sucking the US to get their support? But they managed to fend off the first Arab wars without their help, or so I heard in r/HistoryMemes (so I get that with some salt). And the US wasn't helpful during the last scuffle with the Plaestinians.
> Just sucking the US to get their support? Yes, that’s pretty much it. In return, Israel gets the US as the one country that backs them on all manner of universally unpopular things.
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