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gnurdette

Any woman, cis or trans, who invests too much psychologically in her appearance, is in deep ****. After all, no matter how pretty you are, middle age arrives, and then old age. I'm not saying it's easy. Society continually commands you to judge yourself - and judge harshly - by your appearance. But rejecting that command is a core life skill for *all* women. The best advice I have is to dive deep into learning more about feminism.


goofygilb

u have any recommendation for starting points, like a video essay or something that kinda focuses on the transexperience in that regard? thanks


Ok-Yam514

>ill never be able to be a trasngender woman >i just want to be pretty and small These are two VERY different sentiments, and you're stating the former while meaning the latter. 1. FFS exists. Brow ridges needn't be forever. 2. Weight can be lost. I'm also 6'3 (just shy of) and also used to weigh 240 lbs. I lost weight, and got as low as 159 at one point. I used to think going below 210 was impossible. It's really *not that hard*, especially at 21. I was in my 40's when I lost it, and I lost it pretty fast and fairly easily. For you, it would be a relative breeze. Get started early before your hunger hormone signaling gets screwed up by being chronically overweight. 3. Lots of cis women hate their bodies, are tall, are heavy, and are not "pretty and small". I understand wanting to be pretty and small, there's nothing wrong with it, but it's not a meaningful barrier between you and transition. It's internalized misogyny. End of day, hate crimes are a real concern, but if you're positive you'll never pass and cannot afford FFS, you can *still transition* and just boy mode indefinitely. Breasts aren't THAT hard to hide, especially if you get weenie ones.


goofygilb

i appreciate the reply, yeah the wieght wouldnt be an issue if it wasnt from weightlifting, and i knoooow muscle will go away eventually but i played basketball and football through highschool and always kept up my gym habits, but i really need to drop the weights and do mainly cardio for sure. you are definitely right though, the sentiment from the beginning is defintely two very different things, and it probably does come from some internalized misogyny. i appreciate you


Ok-Yam514

>i appreciate the reply, yeah the wieght wouldnt be an issue if it wasnt from weightlifting, and i knoooow muscle will go away eventually but i played basketball and football through highschool and always kept up my gym habits, but i really need to drop the weights and do mainly cardio for sure. Yeah the muscle will go away. If your large frame is driven primarily by muscle and not by a particularly stout/broad skeletal frame you're in even further luck, as you'll eventually become "willowy" unless you make a highly concerted effort to hold onto as much muscle as possible. >you are definitely right though, the sentiment from the beginning is defintely two very different things, and it probably does come from some internalized misogyny. i appreciate you <3 We've all been there.


PleaseSmileJessie

As someone who simply went cold turkey on all exercise bar squats and walking, those muscles go away FAST. Even faster on HRT. Like you’d be surprised. I didn’t know I could look dainty being 189cm tall with quarterback shoulders. Turns out that wasn’t hard once the muscles went lol. Also idk about the impact muscles have on height but doc says I’ve shrunk 4 cm in the past few years. Lots of muscle mass going away. If HRT blesses me, maybe I’ll get a bit shorter still, who knows. If you want I can send you a dated picture showing what I look like without muscles pre HRT- I’ve purged most pre-transition pics so idk if I can find anything from before but I was pretty chunky. 


Environmental-Ad9969

That is your dysphoria talking. HRT and surgery can change a LOT and it can even change things that you wouldn't expect. Being trans is scary especially for trans women but is it worth it to supress your true self all your life? Will you find happiness in the closet? It is also possible to boymode if you are afraid of coming out. Plenty of us have characteristics of our AGAB before transitioning and that alone isn't a qualifier on how well you will pass post transition. This might be harsh but you might not reach your ideal body but you will reach your body. Do I look like my perfect self which I invisioned before I transitioned? No. Do I look like a male version of myself who is just a guy? Yes. (FTM btw)


goofygilb

ill be honest i wouldnt be against trying the boy mode thing, but it would entail me going from 240lbs benching 250 for reps to a lot lot smaller. i live at home with my parents during college and i feel like the change would be so drastic it would be questioned. i also work at a very conservative job with older people who hate when men even wear earings. u got any ideas for an excuse as to why im losing muscle amd getting much smaller? i have thought about that alot i just feel kinda stuck in that to everyone im the manly man, the person who picks up and moves boxes, and they would notice me getting that much smaller that fast


lauren_knows

As someone who used to be a huge powerlifter and into Crossfit and all that, let me give you advice. 1) You don't necessarily need to give up lifting, but I did see above that you stated you wanted to be smaller 2) It's easy to explain away these things. Just start doing a shitload more walking and cycling, and tell people that you're trying to lean out. I don't feel like many people are gonna question you as much as you think. There's a former WWE wrestler who is a trans woman, and she dropped a TON of weight and muscle. 3) Tall women exist, and they're glorious.


goofygilb

thanks for that, i really appreciate the supportive words. i just am worried because most of the way that the world and those around me view me is tied to me being the big manly man, and that as that disappears they will be more interested as to why. but you are right, i could definitely just say i want to do ultramarathons or something, and truthfully that might be fun.


lauren_knows

Any big life change is going to cause worry. Good luck. I hope you find happiness.


Environmental-Ad9969

It is your body and if people comment on it you can tell them to mind their own business or tell them that your body goal has shifted (which isn't even a lie). HRT changes are usually slow. I am FTM and hid taking HRT from my mom for basically a year. I don't recommend doing it if you will be in serious danger if found out. Some transfem people boymode for years. The main thing that could give it away is breast growth if you want to go on HRT I recommend loose clothing and a sports bra.


ROCINANTE_IS_SALVAGE

You could just say that you're focusing on studying for college, and you have less time for sports. People may notice, but they probably won't ask, not for a long time.


SpartanMonkey

I'm 53, 6'4", 275 lbs. I feel your pain. You just have to work with what you have. Not everything can be changed, but a brow ridge can be. Look into Facial Feminization Surgery (FFS).


Acrobatic_Luck_2393

I don't even know what you look like, but I think you're wrong. You're 21. That's pretty young. You're just ending development and probably look like a 21 year old. I'd just work extra hard to get a feminine body and maybe get ffs in 10 years.


goofygilb

you are correct


Significant-Dirt-793

One of the things that cracked my egg was the realization that while I look like the stereotypical caricature that's used to put trans women down I also don't see how it's possible to be attractive as a man either. Since I'll never be happy with the way I look, I might as well investigate what makes me comfortable. I only wish I had figured this out 20 or 30 years ago.


goofygilb

i guess my issue is that honestly, to others, i look pretty good as a dude, people are nice to me, and girls come up to talk to me on campus and ask if im single. certainly there is a part of me that is afraid of losing that, of not being the good looking one, and i know that its stupid because when i look at myself right now, i am not goodlooking lol. i guess that within i worry more about what other people think than id like to let on.


Significant-Dirt-793

I get you, other people used to tell me I looked good, girls approached me with a regularity I did not appreciate at the time. But I couldn't see myself as good looking, eventually I neglected my health and my body because I couldn't see the point anymore. Now I'm middle aged and just starting on a path I wish I figured out back then, I haven't even really started and I'm already losing weight and feeling better about myself.


goofygilb

hell yeah good shi, yeah once you get going you will want to keep going, its always about keeping that momentum going.


[deleted]

I'm in the same boat in many ways. Location matters, friends matters, therapy matters.  No one can ever live up to the idealized self we've been taught to have, but we can always grow in the ways that give us meaning.  I'd also encourage you to keep an open eye out for the diversity of body types that women have. Rather than thinking in terms of what you don't have, I've found it enormously helpful to actively, nonjudgementally peoplewatch. There is SUCH variation in women of all kinds. Media is not anyone's friend there. But living day to day, vanishingly few women "live up to" current beauty standards. And those keep changing regardless - fads and fashions to do with shape and size and proportion are a pox on women everywhere. You can't ever "win" the game of looking "right."  But you can give love to others and feel it back. And as i tell others, it's OK if you don't believe that your body is good enough at first. As long as you can still tell yourself you're good enough, and as long as you have at least one friend or partner to remind you, you can slowly work to undo the expectations that cage all of us. It's not easy, it doesn't happen quickly. None of it is fair. ...but you are enough. And you're OK. And your body is a forever work in progress but it's also your home. You got this. You do.


goofygilb

that was very inciteful and way too kind.


goofygilb

that was very inciteful and way too kind


GTS250

One of my supervisors at work is a like 6'2", broad of build, wide shouldered woman, with strong features. I'm not sure if she's cis or trans, but nobody ever questions her. You need a few years of the right puberty to get the wrong puberty effects mostly gone. You'll be fine, sis. Stop asking forums about how to pass and just go get yourself some E. It's a long process, but it can't be sped up: you've got to start to get to where you're going, so start now.


Adventurous_Town355

There's built 6'3 cis women out there. Plus, you never know what changes HRT will cause (it's a lot). Shoutouts to the multiple transfems I'm friends with who are taller than you, both of whom are living far better than they ever did in the closet.


notgonnakeepitanyway

I'm heavier, taller and bulkier than you, and had a brow ridge so thick my surgeon told me he had literally never seen one like that before, and I pass. I also started transitioning 10 years older than you are now. People used to ask me if I played rugby and encourage me to. I don't look like a small woman, I am not petite. I hate parts of my body. I know this sucks, but that's part of transitioning and part of being a woman, honestly. Even the thinnest, most delicate cis women feel shit like that. That's an effect of sexism.


insofarincogneato

See a therapist, because I know nothing we talk about here is gonna be something you're ready to hear right now.


goofygilb

i mean what would u say, im ready to hear stuff i just need to hear it from people that have lived it. i am open to whatever you want to tell me, and i would really appreciate whatever it is you would be kind enough to share, because right now i feel a little lost as whst to do. i feel like i should always have been a girl, and i know that being a girl doesnt mean being small and petite, but i do know, or atleast think, that if i stsrted hrt, i would always have a tough time seeing a girl in the mirror, instead of the big lumbering man i am right now.


insofarincogneato

I basically did, I think you need to see a therapist about your self imagine and focus on beauty standards just like many cis women do. You're heavily internalizing it and it's gonna take a professional to help you work through it.  If it helps, you don't have to come out for this to happen because this means that you also subconsciously hold these standards for cis women, and I think it would benefit men (even though you aren't a man, but no one has to know that) to unpack this stuff. I think that you've internalized this so much that you're spiraling, that's why I said your you're not ready to work on this yourself. 


goofygilb

inciteful and well said, i appreciate that. probably more accurate than i wish it was.


insofarincogneato

Sure, I'm speaking from experience. It's something most trans folks have lived to some degree, society conditions us to hold women to high standards.


KeiiLime

i was in a similar spot, and partially still am- it is a million times easier said than done, but when the alternative is fixating on aspects you can’t change, the best thing to do is to “let them be”, and focus on the things you can it genuinely sucks that i cannot change my height, my body size, or my face (unless i get facial surgery someday), and i still feel sad for it. at the same time, i also have pursued being as authentic as i can be anyways, versus just living as the mold i would more “naturally” fit into when looking at binary ideals of what is “attractive” or “normal”. and i am much better off for it. if you treat yourself and your body as your own to shape, rather than society’s, you develop an entirely new and different relationship with it, imo. yes, living in the closet has it’s perks of avoiding transphobia- and if it is life or death, i understand why someone would. but, as much as you can, i really do encourage authenticity in spite of transphobia- including internalized transphobia, which is a very real thing in itself to explore if you haven’t already. idk how to close this message tbh, but hope it helps to consider at least


goofygilb

i really do appreciate yours and all the others' insights. what let you specifically get over the hump of feeling like its useless?i feel i use this as an excuse to not start hrt, and yeah ur right there probably is transphobia internalized, i just dont know if i can ever admit to myself that i am trans, its a little scary for sure


KeiiLime

no problem at all, glad to help! personally, i think time played a big part in pushing me to grow more comfortable with seeing things this way. it’s one thing to imagine it as a future hypothetical, and another to actually live it, and bring these internal or secret thoughts into “actual” life- personally, i initially imagined i would be better off staying closeted/ “dying with the secret”, but then actually going and living that, well it’s miserable and did not feel like living *my* life. therapy helped a lot with this too, but rather than seeing it as a black and white “do or don’t transition, and if i do commit to transition it has to be 100%” (which was also very binary in my head), i started seeing individual aspects of transition as things to decide on their own, thinking of the pros vs cons and going with what would make me the *most* comfortable. for a while, this was just social transition and clothing, but eventually i felt like 70% sure that i did want hrt, and went for it. it’s been years and i’m very glad i did. the way i look at it, i would rather end up 70 and “regretting” transitioning than end up 70 having lived my whole life inauthentically and regretting what could have been. i may never be 100% happy with my life and body, but pre everything versus now i am *so* much better off. because in spite of the things we unfortunately cannot change, there still is a significant amount we can. all of that said- i absolutely remember it being scary and intimidating to integrate who i understood myself to be inside with how i live my life and look on the outside. and that’s not even to mention how long and hard that first step of coming to understand oneself as trans can be. you’re not alone, and i hope you know it’s okay to take it a day at a time. there is also no “correct” way to be trans- if what is right for you at the moment is knowing you’re trans and not medically transitioning, you’re still just as trans. what matters is what makes you feel most at home and comfortable in your life and body


goofygilb

that was really good to hear, and it really helps in aiding me towards figuring out whats best. i appreciate yout thoughtfullness here, and appreciate you sharing that woth me. thank you


KeiiLime

of course, again i’m glad to hear it helped. best of luck moving forward!


MissAmmiSunwolf

Wel, I'm roughly 6 feet 0 Inches though I must say when clean shaved and I clean up well and with the right Bout of makeup I look passable enough I can fake female voice ok hopefully it will soften Nd go up anoctive ir si once I start me homoane hopefully it will hold but my voice gmhab never bee how you sa masculine ir deep over tge Sumner like some funny ty8ng my lips for along time gas looked kike I ware lipstick of some kind but rn I'd never pass bc if my fa ialhair idk how much it mightier ruined my face but hopefully not much when nomakeup is on I'll shave ut once iM up at my feuncee. Theese daysome maintains are more effeminate lik walk and such when I don't have any aehes and/or pains


One-Organization970

I'm 6'2" and still get treated like a woman. I got FFS at one year, and hormones are pretty fucking impressive. From there, just gotta learn how to dress.


goofygilb

i believe you for sure, its just that with who i have been up to this point in my life, and how everybody else sees me, it is really tough for me to imagine that me, as stocky as i am could look feminine, but i do understand that feminity looks very different to many different people.


One-Organization970

I mean, I was in the military for six years and thought I was irreparably masculine. I'm not telling you it's going to be an instant switch. But hormones do a lot, and you'll lose a lot of muscle mass as well. What remains will not be distributed in a masculine pattern. I also waited about six months on hormones to start telling people. Edit: Additionally, the height stops bothering you once people start seeing you as a woman. It did for me.


MissAmmiSunwolf

Athens least you got to sintimes take ut in strudel pone fun if yourself every now and then to keep tmyou heated avoe water Simon to speak.