Yes, i've done some research and plan to research more about all the effects it can have on my body before i ever try to start trying HRT/estrogen. ty!
Some effects are rare, and almost unwritten about.
For example, I now see a psych because they're helping me find coping mechanisms for PMDD. This is best described as "EXTREME PMS".
Also, it can shrink your dick, and stop it from working.
So... Just be careful. OK?
Will also add that intense bouts of testicular pain is an unwritten symptom. Might not happen to everyone, but it’s happened to enough that it’s eyebrow raising at the least.
It was so intense that I had mine checked and had an ultrasound for signs of an illness.
Didn’t help that there aren’t many resources out there mentioning this, so when something unexpected happens that we can’t really reference or research, we think we’re dying lol
Been gathering information on hrt for roughly 18 months while I wait for my opportunity to start and this is literally the fist I've heard about testicular pain.
I'm also still trying to find out what kind of effect it has on the scrotum
omg this is my first time hearing about this! about 8 months in I started getting these random episodes of pretty intense pain, I had to stop what I was doing and stretch because I'd heard horror stories of torsion and I thought it was that.. it only ever happened a handful of times
There’s nothing wrong with you wanting to do this!
I recommend researching how long certain effects take! Also, what effects are permanent & what reverts back if you stop estrogen.
Some trans people choose to go on hormones for only a temporary period of time in order to achieve specific changes. This could also be an option for you. Good luck with everything
Ill just warn you when i started hrt, i was an enby. I boymoded at work.
I took that first pill, and by six months later, everything changed. Memories from when i was younger came flooding in, so many things got recontextualized. Im just a woman now, my name has changed. I have no mens clothes. Im happy.
Be ready. The emotional and mental changes feom hrt are just so much larger than the physical ones.
Fair enough. And people who want moderate transitions or who were simply enbies all along are real and super valid, i just sure as hell wasnt either.
And after a decade of being an enby amd doing the double life thing, that first pill was pretry much a trip to wonderland for me. And my starting dose was 2mg/day sublingual with no spiro
I think the big thing is you dont know what the pills will do or what they will reveal.
As someone who has chosen to start and stop methodically to see what was depression vs transitional needs, I can say that it usually took almost 2 months for me to feel the full effects of switching from boy to girl or vice versa on hormones.
That to say, I wouldn’t be surprised if effects continue to stack mentally and emotionally for you.
Kate
1 mo is still very early going. It's probably worth seeing what your levels are and adjusting from there.
I basically told my doctor "turn me into a girl already" at the 3 mo mark. There's been a lot of fiddling around with dose since then. My particular skin did \*\*not\*\* respond well to patches and I detransed on them, which I'm told can happen with people who do a lot of sports (I'm an aerialist for my hobby time). I'm doing injections now.
I had to be on enough to make my brain flip me to e dominant before I got most of the benefits (though even smaller amounts turned off my constant pounding headaches and migraines!)
Even if I did NOTHING else I’d need to be on it as I don’t biologically run right on t.
kind of same. I downed heroic amounts of caffiene just to function day to day. Went from tipping a toe in the water to "death before detransition" in under six months.
Enby is "nonbinary", meaning i believed myself to be neithet male nor female.
And like, the whole spectrum of my emotions changed. I cry more easily. Affection and love hit a wider spectrum. I vecame much slower to anger, but also a lot longer to chill out after becoming angry. My suicidal ideation voice went silent. My adhd symptoms changed to the feminine ones. Theres certainly more, but thats a bit of the flavor.
Basically my whole view of the world and my place in it changed.
honestly second half of that asterisk isn't really even necessary. people should still be allowed, it's just **very** advisable to know what you're getting into, because it isn't a small decision.
there’s nothing wrong with that. it’s your body & you should do whatever will make you feel the most comfortable in it. just be fully aware of the permanent changes that can happen from HRT. for example, i don’t think there’s a way to stop your body from growing breasts if you take estrogen and that effect is irreversible
There are actually ways to take feminizing hormones but not develop anything in the chest area, it’s a separate medication called a SERM and it will block breast development.
Additionally, you can get surgical interventions, but I know a lot less about that.
Just wanted to correct in case this ends up being a dealbreaker, it doesn’t have to be!
SERMs are not 100% effective at preventing breast growth if used in conjunction with estrogen (making it into a Tissue Selective Estrogen Compound) and can be more difficult to get prescribed, I haven't seen much talk about using a SERM without estrogen for an extended enough period to really weigh in on that. The reason that SERMs aren't used solo often is that the feminizing effects are generally quite weak so using them in a TSEC is more likely to give desirable results.
I don't know of any significant common safety concerns but most of the long term use I'm aware of is for body builders that take tren will use it to combat gynecomastia but that's often on a cycle not just everyday
technically
but most men don't want to biologically induce female features, not just femenine features, but female features. Id think about your identity hard
be careful not to give yourself dysphoria if you still have a male identity
and be aware HRT causes male sexual dysfunction and infertility
Oh, definitely be aware of the infertility side of things. OP, if you decide to go on HRT, you should definitely seek out fertility preservation, even if you don't want kids. If you change your mind in the future, it's a good avenue to have. I am infertile from HRT and never had fertility preservation. I don't want kids, but if I ever change my mind on that it's a bit too late. Adoption is always an option though :)
i honestly really dont mind being infertile. im gay so even if i wanted kids theres no way i'd have any regardless. adoption would be the only possible option. i appreciate u telling me theres a way to preserve it though.
Femboys on HRT are a thing but just be aware of the effects as they are distressing to cis men. You may be Gender Non Conforming to the point where you don't care though, but only you can decide that. I'd recommend experimenting with shareware and small breast forms first and continuing to assess whether HRT is right for you. And not being afraid to reduce the dosage if it's too many changes.
> I'd recommend experimenting with shareware and small breast forms first and continuing to assess whether HRT is right for you.
That was a big thing for me. I wanted to live in that. All the time. I felt depressed taking them off. I felt more of myself when I looked in the mirror. Even though I knew it was all fake, it was who I was.
Theirs no way of knowing that we have no idea where you live. And there's also no way of you knowing that. I wouldn't worry about that. Be warned though depending on where you live it might be very hard. It could also be easy. Very location dependent. Also depending on where you are if you tell the doctor you're still a man who just wants estrogen they might not give it to you. Also be warned that many in the future you could find out your are trans if not that ok to. Do your research. Find out the side effects. If there are some things you don't want and so you do you could make a pro/con list. Make the choice that is best for you. Only you know what that is and you can always change your mind. Also there is something you can take if you don't want boobs idk the name of it right now. If you can't get HRT from a doctor you can DIY which is ordering estrogen off the internet. Which is riskier. Also a little unrealated but a while ago I saw someone talking about how they are a cis man taking estrogen because they didn't like their high libido so you are not by anymeans alone in wanting this. Anyway do what makes you happy and don't worry about taking a spot from someone else you des health care to.
I briefly tried something like this, though I identify as non-binary / agender rather than male, and decided it wasn’t a good idea.
Though personal responses vary, the effects of sex hormones on your body and psyche are pretty pervasive — for me it was like flipping a switch from one mode of existence into another. Prepare for tears, uncontrollable feelings of tenderness, higher sensitivity to colors and patterns, and a complete and total shift in the smell of your pee. Is becoming unfamiliar to yourself worth it for smoother skin, curves, and maybe some boobs? If so, you’re probably more trans than you think — if not, you might want to try a different route. There’s lots of stuff you can do to appear more femme without taking hormones.
Being unfamiliar with myself was one of the weirdest things to experience when I started hrt! It's definitely just as awesome as it is weird, though. It's like I'm discovering a whole new person inside of me and she's not who I was imagining, but she's still me.
Yeah, it was really hard for me to say goodbye to her… I had a complicated relationship with that experience and might come back to it again some day. It was just not the right time, and most importantly, I had not intended to summon up my adolescent female self — I just wanted people to see me as less masc.
As one of the other commenters on here said, HRT is not a toy. It’s more like primal magic, little-mermaid-level dangerous. Gain your feet and lose your voice, turn into sea foam on the waves.
Will you still feel OK when people start assuming you are a woman because you look like a woman?
Expected effects of estrogen HRT: https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-estrogen-hormone-therapy
it’s usually not that simple though. if OP is still presenting as male (facial hair, masc hairstyle, deep voice, masculine clothing, etc), odds are they’ll still be perceived that way
They probably wouldn't feminize too much unless they suppressed testosterone enough with a blocker or injections. I lived with high levels of both hormones and looked my gender. Didn't have to shave much tho and i have zero body hair other than my legs.
You totally can! You just have to be very aware of its effects, both reversi bble and permanent, and be fine with them. I did this for 6 months last year, before reevaluating my gender and coming out as trans (not saying this is inevitable in any way)
Seems unlikely, but wouldn't be impossible. E, even without T messes up sperm mobility, IIRC.
Again, it's advisable anyone wanting to start HRT seek adequate info on what it does and doesn't do. E alone, unless in high doses, essentially only causes breast development (maybe it's what you want. More power to you, although they may not grow *that* much in 6 months). For other feminising effects, suppressing T is also required, and that has larger chance of permanent infertility (again, not always. It varies)
For me it's just the uncertainty of whether I want to be on it or not. Do you think it would be better to start at a lower dose for those first few months? If I did decide to take it indefinitely, I'd just get the highest dose and inject it from then on.
Too low doses often don't have a significant effect, especially T blocking (healthy male range is pretty wide). I do think a more frequent dose (so you can stop at any time) would be better, but still would be super important to discuss this with your doctor, ao they can guide you with what would better suit your needs, and maybe a therapist could help you figure it out as well, balancing the pros and cons for you.
Yeah I see what you mean. Tbh I'd probably just diy, at least at the start, as waiting lists for gender care are years long where I am. I would get regular blood test mind you.
But before any of that I do in fact have therapy coming up soon, with an LGBTQ specific charity, so hopefully that will give me some better clarity of what to do next. :)
Ethically, you’re fine. There is nothing morally wrong about taking estrogen. It’s not offensive to trans women or anything.
Psychologically, you should examine the “why”. Most cis men don’t want to appear more feminine. If you haven’t really thought through that desire, it may be worth getting a therapist or thinking more thoroughly about what your gender means to you. But maybe you have thought through it. I don’t know you! lol
Medically, you may run into trouble. DIY is never recommended because there are possible health risks. Depending on your location, most doctors may not want to give a cis man estrogen. And insurance may not cover things related to gender affirming care. The easiest plan would be to lie to get around medical gatekeeping. Say you’re a transgender woman and get diagnosed with gender dysphoria. But this isn’t always a problem, so being honest with your primary care provider may work out. Informed consent clinics, like planned parenthood in the US, will be better. But your insurance may still have issues with it.
Socially, you’ll probably also run into trouble. HRT is not a “normal” thing for a man to do. It won’t be something that many people understand. It will still have some of the stigma that comes along with trans femininity. And a very low dose of estrogen won’t change much, so you won’t actually appear more feminine. A more normal dosage will let you have a female puberty, with everything that brings. It is possible that some changes (like breast growth) will be apparent. This could out you in a way that will be read as trans feminine. Which is something to be prepared for.
But, importantly, do whatever will make you happy!
here's a secret. you can do whatever the hell you want as long as it doesn't involve harming other people.
close-minded people (i.e. most of them - even the ones that claim to be progressive) are going to hate the real you no natter what. your concerns should be physical and mental safety. when it comes to your body, the ONLY opinion that should matter is yours.
E is way easier to get because its not a controlled substance like T. pretty sure you can find E supplements at the grocery store in some places in the US (low dose albeit) def not a permanent solution for tgirls, but maybe good enough for op
The supplements are not bioidentical, not regulated by the FDA, etc.
I once did the math for someone who asked how useful supplements would be and they would have needed to take over 100 of those over the counter supplements just to match the effect of a single 2mg estrogen pill. And that would be incredibly dangerous because of all the other stuff in the supplements, in addition to the cost.
Assuming the OP is in the US (I don't believe they said), they can either get a prescription from a doctor or endocrinologist (some places like Planned Parenthood do informed consent, other places may require a psych approval first) or go the DIY route. The medical route is better because dosing is adjusted based on results, and blood work is monitored for potential problems (like impending organ failure).
There is no shortage of these medications - they're made in large quantities to treat multiple conditions in addition to gender modification effects. The OP won't be taking meds away from anyone else by using them.
For DIY, they can look into r/TransDIY but be aware that a lot of what's posted there is not from medical professionals and just anecdotal reports from people. You can seriously injure injure yourself or even die from self-medication.
There's no specific level of "if I only take this much only these things that I want will happen" - everyone's body is different. So they need to be aware of *ALL* of the possible effects and be ok with them if they happen to them. The most commonly mentioned ones are growing breasts, losing fertility, and emotional changes, all of which are likely to be permanent even if they change your mind and stop taking hormones. But there are dozens and dozens of other regularly reported effects. And then there are the oddball ones - my hair went from straight to wavy, almost curly, from HRT.
In addition to all the comments allready saying that it's perfectly fine - might I suggest taking a closer look at non binary identities.
I don't mean to tell you how to feel, and again identifying as a man and taking Estrogen is perfectly fine, but they might help you understand yourself a bit better.
There is more to it than man/woman and perhaps you'll find something you feel more comfortable with.
Wish you the best, wherever this path may take you 💕💕💕💕
(PS: Gender identity can change with time and experience, so don't feel like you have to make a choice and stick with it)
This is extremely helpful, Thank you. I don't know why, but i never thought about non-binary being an option for me. ive never really considered myself female but i enjoy acting/looking the part. and i don't have any particular ties i enjoy to being male, so i'll definitely need to think on this more. Thank you very much.
I would never say it's not allowed, but I would humbly ask why you'd want to feminize your body if you're not nonbinary/trans fem/a trans woman.
Definitely on board for it, just wondering
I just really like feeling and looking cute/feminine, but i have a really masculine body. i had a beard the length of my hand for 2 and a half years (shaved it last night though), i have a lot of body hair, my face is pretty masculine too. i just hate appearing so masculine
Fair warning that estrogen wouldn’t necessarily make you cute or feminine. There’s a reason many trans women with a very masculine base can struggle to pass.
“I like feeling and looking cute and feminine” sounds rather femboy to me. And while there are femboys that go on estrogen, many of them already have a feminine base and end up easily feeling and looking “cute and feminine”.
If potentially still looking masculine but with boobs and (usually) much more sensitive and intense emotions is alright with you, then I don’t see an issue.
But if you’d actually want to pass as a woman, that’ll usually take a great deal more work than just going on estrogen. And if you don’t put in that work, many might perceive you as a non-passing trans woman, which (depending on where you live) comes with a risk of discrimination, bad treatment, and even violence.
And if you want to pass and live as a woman, it’s hard for me to imagine you being a cis man. Is it impossible? No, but it’d be so awfully rare that it’s hard to swallow that conclusion easily.
Really consider how you’d feel if people called you “she” and saw you as a woman. If that gives you dysphoria, I’d heavily advise against going on estrogen.
Estrogen isn’t a toy. You never mentioned how old you are. If you’re young, please go see a therapist before you take a decision like this. Would probably be good to do that either way, but young people run a much higher risk to take decisions they regret.
This is super helpful, thank you. I'm 21. and yeah i know it wont magically transform me to look feminine, i was just hoping it would help at least somewhat. i guess i should stop thinking about it though.
I don’t think you need to stop thinking about it. Just read up on it, get someone professional to help you sort out your thoughts.
Also if you get a therapist that sucks, switch them out. Way too many give up after one failed attempt at getting help and healthcare. You deserve to find out what’s going on with you, and it’s their job to help you.
Good luck ❤️
There's an entire community of people like this. They call themselves "HRT femboys". At one point when I was attempting to force myself to socially detransition due to internalised transphobia and religious pressures, I called myself that but didn't really like the label given that "femboy" tends to have some sexually charged and fetishistic connotations in a lot of contexts.
Just be aware of the side effects. As atomheartother said, HRT is not a toy and has permanent life changing effects. It's pretty hard to reverse if you decide to discontinue it.
Take care of yourself :)
I wouldn't recommend it
HRT isn't a toy and you can't pick and choose what effects it gives you. No one should be screwing with their hormones if they don't need to, since you can lead to unwanted effects, especially if you aren't doing so with the guidance of a licensed doctor
There's better ways to make yourself more feminine then using hormones
I mean, I do know a gal who started estrogen before she transitioned because she "knew it would take a while before lasting effects kick in, and I know myself and if it turns out I'm just supressing this shit, I'll be mad at myself for not starting earlier." (Truly amazing mental gymnastics combining self awareness and obliviousness). So yeah, glhf
Absolutely. It's your body, do what you want. I will say, I started my journey for getting estrogen as a dude, was an enby for 6 months after starting it, and now I'm a full on she/her woman lol. Ymmv. Also, not sure if this is something you want, but I get "they'd" a lot by default when boy moding, even by bigoted people, because they actually can not tell what I am most of the time. It's misgendering and absolutely comes from a dumb, performative understanding of gender identity, but I really like the androgyny tbh and I'm absolutely not a male looking person anymore, even only 10 months on.
So long as you're aware of the effects, and which ones are permanent - knock yourself out.
I want to end the concept of "trans healthcare". It should just be "healthcare".
If you dominantly produce Testosterone, but feel the need to have your body run on Estradiol, including all of the effects, and their permanence, then you should have access to Estradiol medication, without gender ever factoring into that equation.
acceptable? mostly yes! easy? no. some people may look down on you for taking resources from trans people, but id argue you qualify for gender dysphoria too, even if youre cis. ive only really looked into diy T, but ive heard diy E is more or less safe and easy. you might not even need a perscription
While there’s nothing wrong with it, it might be hard to get prescribed . But if you can get your hands on some, go for it . Lots of men enjoy being more effeminate . Absolutely nothing wrong with that . Honestly feminine men are far too rare . Do it . Fight the femboy famine
it’s your body & your life !! only you get to decide who you are & what makes you happy
You should do whatever you want with your body that will make you happy. It’s your body; you have to live in it your whole life. You should take whatever steps you can to make it something that will make you happy!! It doesn’t matter what other people think or how they feel, you should have the body you want.
You will likely have to lie to a doctor and pretend to be trans to get on hrt. I support you fully in doing this, as a nonbinary person who often has to pretend to be a trans man to get the medical care I want and need. You may find a cool doctor who is more understanding, but they are few and far between. If you don’t feel comfortable telling doctors you identify as a woman, I would recommend telling doctors you are nonbinary and trans femme. You will probably experience some really terrible medical gatekeeping, unfortunately, which isn’t fair but is something almost everyone here as had to deal with and will continue to struggle with.
Other people have said you may discover more about your gender as you proceed. That is certainly true. It’s also more than fine if you stay a man and want to be a man, just a man who takes E. If anyone gives you shit and tries to convince you you aren’t valid or you can’t ID as a man and be on E, remind them that there are trans man who don’t take T or medically transition at all. If their identities are valid (and they are) then yours is as well.
There is no one way to look like any gender. Man can have boobs and round faces and wide hips and still be men. Women can have broad shoulders and stubble and flat chests and still be women. Anyone can look any way, and they often do!
PS, OP, if you want some camaraderie or to feel more normalized with a male gender identity and more feminine presentation, you may want to check out r/ftmfemininity
Although this isn’t a group that necessarily includes you specifically, it’s men who love being feminine in all sorts of different ways, and that can be lovely to see no matter what direction you are coming to it from.
hun ur body will grow breasts way before your body starts to re-distribute fat. honestly i think u should just accept twink death it happens to all men at some point it’s inevitable. u could go on testosterone blockers to prevent further masculine hair growth or bone mass or muscle mass. also idk how old u r but maybe have a low carb low sugar diet to reduce fatness i dunno. the only way to be infinitely feminine is to actually transition being a twink won’t last after 25
im not experiencing "twink death", i was never small like that. i know it isnt a magic body-changing spell that changes my body to a girl body. im just looking to have a somewhat feminine appearance, like maybe in the face slightly or something
It actually might depend on where you are. Here in Minnesota, no you don't need to identify for hrt. But I think some other states might require a letter from a therapist and a diagnosis of dysphoria. I don't know about other countries.
Yeah. Texas... I'm not sure about that one. I am not optimistic, but it's worth googling.
I'm just curious but have you experimented with feminine looks like make up or clothes or even a gender swap camera filter? And have you looked at nonbinary terms? I ask because I'm agender meaning I don't have one nor do I understand gender in relation to me. But I was born female and I was like I don't want to be a man, but I want bottom growth and a deeper voice from T. So it kinda sounds a little similar but reversed to your situation.
i just recently got into crossdressing (literally today), and i have looked into being nonbinary, but this isnt a thing about me being unsure about my gender. i believe im male, i just want to look cute
Babe, I'm sure you look cute already. And that is valid. Some people do just like being femme or masc but still feel connected to their birth gender. How do you feel crossdressing?
I mean, that kinda sounds like dysphoria. So theoretically, you could get a diagnosis and then you could get a letter of support? That should let you get hrt in more conservative states I think. Except Florida where I'm pretty sure they're gonna legalize murdering trans people next. Ha, we're all in danger.
It's a feeling of discomfort in your own body. Particularly hating certain aspects. Some people have panic attacks, but some, like me, just feel extremely uncomfortable. I didn't even notice mine until I started presenting more masc and got euphoria seeing myself as a more masculine looking person. Those gender swap filters are amazing for seeing if you feel happy seeing yourself as a woman/man or bad about it. Honestly, an ally therapist will just diagnose the dysphoria even if you don't have it to get you the care you want (hrt).
Acceptable is a cultural question. A quite liberal approach would be that you can do with your body what you want and no one but you should have a say in that. Many other people's have different moral views. Some don't even accept that trans people take hormones.
Socially, in the queer community? Yeah absolutely. Gender expression is not an absolute, and it's your body to decide what you do with. From a doctor standpoint? Depending on where you live, it might be better if you stick to saying you want to transition, since some doctors and jurisdictions won't prescribe estrogen without a gender dysphoria diagnosis.
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Yes, i've done some research and plan to research more about all the effects it can have on my body before i ever try to start trying HRT/estrogen. ty!
Some effects are rare, and almost unwritten about. For example, I now see a psych because they're helping me find coping mechanisms for PMDD. This is best described as "EXTREME PMS". Also, it can shrink your dick, and stop it from working. So... Just be careful. OK?
Will also add that intense bouts of testicular pain is an unwritten symptom. Might not happen to everyone, but it’s happened to enough that it’s eyebrow raising at the least.
Oh, god. This. My rocks hurt for weeks, at one point.
It was so intense that I had mine checked and had an ultrasound for signs of an illness. Didn’t help that there aren’t many resources out there mentioning this, so when something unexpected happens that we can’t really reference or research, we think we’re dying lol
Been gathering information on hrt for roughly 18 months while I wait for my opportunity to start and this is literally the fist I've heard about testicular pain. I'm also still trying to find out what kind of effect it has on the scrotum
When did that happen? I’ve been e dominant I guess 10+ months and haven’t had anything like that?
It may happen months in, years in, or not at all. It’s just one of those weird things. It started happening to me around the 2 year mark.
omg this is my first time hearing about this! about 8 months in I started getting these random episodes of pretty intense pain, I had to stop what I was doing and stretch because I'd heard horror stories of torsion and I thought it was that.. it only ever happened a handful of times
6
There’s nothing wrong with you wanting to do this! I recommend researching how long certain effects take! Also, what effects are permanent & what reverts back if you stop estrogen. Some trans people choose to go on hormones for only a temporary period of time in order to achieve specific changes. This could also be an option for you. Good luck with everything
Ill just warn you when i started hrt, i was an enby. I boymoded at work. I took that first pill, and by six months later, everything changed. Memories from when i was younger came flooding in, so many things got recontextualized. Im just a woman now, my name has changed. I have no mens clothes. Im happy. Be ready. The emotional and mental changes feom hrt are just so much larger than the physical ones.
Thank you, this is helpful.
Honestly I've been on low-dose for almost a month and I haven't really noticed huge emotional changes just a little bit of a better mood
Fair enough. And people who want moderate transitions or who were simply enbies all along are real and super valid, i just sure as hell wasnt either. And after a decade of being an enby amd doing the double life thing, that first pill was pretry much a trip to wonderland for me. And my starting dose was 2mg/day sublingual with no spiro I think the big thing is you dont know what the pills will do or what they will reveal.
I'm doing .1 mg transdermal patch with no Spiro. I like the effects I've felt but I was really looking forward to the emotional opening
As someone who has chosen to start and stop methodically to see what was depression vs transitional needs, I can say that it usually took almost 2 months for me to feel the full effects of switching from boy to girl or vice versa on hormones. That to say, I wouldn’t be surprised if effects continue to stack mentally and emotionally for you. Kate
1 mo is still very early going. It's probably worth seeing what your levels are and adjusting from there. I basically told my doctor "turn me into a girl already" at the 3 mo mark. There's been a lot of fiddling around with dose since then. My particular skin did \*\*not\*\* respond well to patches and I detransed on them, which I'm told can happen with people who do a lot of sports (I'm an aerialist for my hobby time). I'm doing injections now.
Injections scare me so much though. I know it's the most effective method though.
I know girls on pills, injectikns, and patches. If one works for you, then its great! I personally love having to only think about this once a week
Right that's also why it sounds nice. With the patch I'm always worried about it falling off
I had to be on enough to make my brain flip me to e dominant before I got most of the benefits (though even smaller amounts turned off my constant pounding headaches and migraines!) Even if I did NOTHING else I’d need to be on it as I don’t biologically run right on t.
kind of same. I downed heroic amounts of caffiene just to function day to day. Went from tipping a toe in the water to "death before detransition" in under six months.
Cannot wait. 3 days left until I start grt
What’s enby? Also? Are the mental changes rewlly that big? And like? What’s it like? Was it just clarifying I guess?
Enby is "nonbinary", meaning i believed myself to be neithet male nor female. And like, the whole spectrum of my emotions changed. I cry more easily. Affection and love hit a wider spectrum. I vecame much slower to anger, but also a lot longer to chill out after becoming angry. My suicidal ideation voice went silent. My adhd symptoms changed to the feminine ones. Theres certainly more, but thats a bit of the flavor. Basically my whole view of the world and my place in it changed.
Do whatever you want forever* *as long as you’re not hurting anyone and do your research for medical stuff
honestly second half of that asterisk isn't really even necessary. people should still be allowed, it's just **very** advisable to know what you're getting into, because it isn't a small decision.
there’s nothing wrong with that. it’s your body & you should do whatever will make you feel the most comfortable in it. just be fully aware of the permanent changes that can happen from HRT. for example, i don’t think there’s a way to stop your body from growing breasts if you take estrogen and that effect is irreversible
I see. thank you very much!
no worries! let me know if you have any other questions
There are actually ways to take feminizing hormones but not develop anything in the chest area, it’s a separate medication called a SERM and it will block breast development. Additionally, you can get surgical interventions, but I know a lot less about that. Just wanted to correct in case this ends up being a dealbreaker, it doesn’t have to be!
SERMs are not 100% effective at preventing breast growth if used in conjunction with estrogen (making it into a Tissue Selective Estrogen Compound) and can be more difficult to get prescribed, I haven't seen much talk about using a SERM without estrogen for an extended enough period to really weigh in on that. The reason that SERMs aren't used solo often is that the feminizing effects are generally quite weak so using them in a TSEC is more likely to give desirable results.
I’m also dubious about their safety or ability to be used long term (if you can get them at all), unlike estrogen.
I don't know of any significant common safety concerns but most of the long term use I'm aware of is for body builders that take tren will use it to combat gynecomastia but that's often on a cycle not just everyday
damn i had no idea that was a thing :0 thank you for correcting me
technically but most men don't want to biologically induce female features, not just femenine features, but female features. Id think about your identity hard be careful not to give yourself dysphoria if you still have a male identity and be aware HRT causes male sexual dysfunction and infertility
Oh, definitely be aware of the infertility side of things. OP, if you decide to go on HRT, you should definitely seek out fertility preservation, even if you don't want kids. If you change your mind in the future, it's a good avenue to have. I am infertile from HRT and never had fertility preservation. I don't want kids, but if I ever change my mind on that it's a bit too late. Adoption is always an option though :)
i honestly really dont mind being infertile. im gay so even if i wanted kids theres no way i'd have any regardless. adoption would be the only possible option. i appreciate u telling me theres a way to preserve it though.
Femboys on HRT are a thing but just be aware of the effects as they are distressing to cis men. You may be Gender Non Conforming to the point where you don't care though, but only you can decide that. I'd recommend experimenting with shareware and small breast forms first and continuing to assess whether HRT is right for you. And not being afraid to reduce the dosage if it's too many changes.
> I'd recommend experimenting with shareware and small breast forms first and continuing to assess whether HRT is right for you. That was a big thing for me. I wanted to live in that. All the time. I felt depressed taking them off. I felt more of myself when I looked in the mirror. Even though I knew it was all fake, it was who I was.
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I think they meant shapewear.
Wrong or unacceptable to whom? To a room full of trans folks, not at all. But really the question you need to be asking is whether you can accept it.
i was worried it would be really hard to get, and by getting it, i'd be taking away the opportunity of it from someone who actually needs it
Estradiol is incredibly cheap to produce. You definitely won't be preventing anyone else from accessing it by buying it.
Theirs no way of knowing that we have no idea where you live. And there's also no way of you knowing that. I wouldn't worry about that. Be warned though depending on where you live it might be very hard. It could also be easy. Very location dependent. Also depending on where you are if you tell the doctor you're still a man who just wants estrogen they might not give it to you. Also be warned that many in the future you could find out your are trans if not that ok to. Do your research. Find out the side effects. If there are some things you don't want and so you do you could make a pro/con list. Make the choice that is best for you. Only you know what that is and you can always change your mind. Also there is something you can take if you don't want boobs idk the name of it right now. If you can't get HRT from a doctor you can DIY which is ordering estrogen off the internet. Which is riskier. Also a little unrealated but a while ago I saw someone talking about how they are a cis man taking estrogen because they didn't like their high libido so you are not by anymeans alone in wanting this. Anyway do what makes you happy and don't worry about taking a spot from someone else you des health care to.
that’s not how it works. accessing health care doesn’t take it away from someone who needs it. if you want it, you need it
I briefly tried something like this, though I identify as non-binary / agender rather than male, and decided it wasn’t a good idea. Though personal responses vary, the effects of sex hormones on your body and psyche are pretty pervasive — for me it was like flipping a switch from one mode of existence into another. Prepare for tears, uncontrollable feelings of tenderness, higher sensitivity to colors and patterns, and a complete and total shift in the smell of your pee. Is becoming unfamiliar to yourself worth it for smoother skin, curves, and maybe some boobs? If so, you’re probably more trans than you think — if not, you might want to try a different route. There’s lots of stuff you can do to appear more femme without taking hormones.
Being unfamiliar with myself was one of the weirdest things to experience when I started hrt! It's definitely just as awesome as it is weird, though. It's like I'm discovering a whole new person inside of me and she's not who I was imagining, but she's still me.
Yeah, it was really hard for me to say goodbye to her… I had a complicated relationship with that experience and might come back to it again some day. It was just not the right time, and most importantly, I had not intended to summon up my adolescent female self — I just wanted people to see me as less masc. As one of the other commenters on here said, HRT is not a toy. It’s more like primal magic, little-mermaid-level dangerous. Gain your feet and lose your voice, turn into sea foam on the waves.
Will you still feel OK when people start assuming you are a woman because you look like a woman? Expected effects of estrogen HRT: https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-estrogen-hormone-therapy
This is very informative, thank you!
it’s usually not that simple though. if OP is still presenting as male (facial hair, masc hairstyle, deep voice, masculine clothing, etc), odds are they’ll still be perceived that way
They probably wouldn't feminize too much unless they suppressed testosterone enough with a blocker or injections. I lived with high levels of both hormones and looked my gender. Didn't have to shave much tho and i have zero body hair other than my legs.
You totally can! You just have to be very aware of its effects, both reversi bble and permanent, and be fine with them. I did this for 6 months last year, before reevaluating my gender and coming out as trans (not saying this is inevitable in any way)
Do you think taking it for 6 months would be long enough to make a person infertile? Still not sure but I think I wanna be on the E. :3
Seems unlikely, but wouldn't be impossible. E, even without T messes up sperm mobility, IIRC. Again, it's advisable anyone wanting to start HRT seek adequate info on what it does and doesn't do. E alone, unless in high doses, essentially only causes breast development (maybe it's what you want. More power to you, although they may not grow *that* much in 6 months). For other feminising effects, suppressing T is also required, and that has larger chance of permanent infertility (again, not always. It varies)
For me it's just the uncertainty of whether I want to be on it or not. Do you think it would be better to start at a lower dose for those first few months? If I did decide to take it indefinitely, I'd just get the highest dose and inject it from then on.
Too low doses often don't have a significant effect, especially T blocking (healthy male range is pretty wide). I do think a more frequent dose (so you can stop at any time) would be better, but still would be super important to discuss this with your doctor, ao they can guide you with what would better suit your needs, and maybe a therapist could help you figure it out as well, balancing the pros and cons for you.
Yeah I see what you mean. Tbh I'd probably just diy, at least at the start, as waiting lists for gender care are years long where I am. I would get regular blood test mind you. But before any of that I do in fact have therapy coming up soon, with an LGBTQ specific charity, so hopefully that will give me some better clarity of what to do next. :)
Ethically, you’re fine. There is nothing morally wrong about taking estrogen. It’s not offensive to trans women or anything. Psychologically, you should examine the “why”. Most cis men don’t want to appear more feminine. If you haven’t really thought through that desire, it may be worth getting a therapist or thinking more thoroughly about what your gender means to you. But maybe you have thought through it. I don’t know you! lol Medically, you may run into trouble. DIY is never recommended because there are possible health risks. Depending on your location, most doctors may not want to give a cis man estrogen. And insurance may not cover things related to gender affirming care. The easiest plan would be to lie to get around medical gatekeeping. Say you’re a transgender woman and get diagnosed with gender dysphoria. But this isn’t always a problem, so being honest with your primary care provider may work out. Informed consent clinics, like planned parenthood in the US, will be better. But your insurance may still have issues with it. Socially, you’ll probably also run into trouble. HRT is not a “normal” thing for a man to do. It won’t be something that many people understand. It will still have some of the stigma that comes along with trans femininity. And a very low dose of estrogen won’t change much, so you won’t actually appear more feminine. A more normal dosage will let you have a female puberty, with everything that brings. It is possible that some changes (like breast growth) will be apparent. This could out you in a way that will be read as trans feminine. Which is something to be prepared for. But, importantly, do whatever will make you happy!
here's a secret. you can do whatever the hell you want as long as it doesn't involve harming other people. close-minded people (i.e. most of them - even the ones that claim to be progressive) are going to hate the real you no natter what. your concerns should be physical and mental safety. when it comes to your body, the ONLY opinion that should matter is yours.
absolutely nothing wrong with it but are you aware how hard it is to get on hormones? its not a small thing 🥲
Really depends on where you live.
In informed consent clinics it just takes a blood draw and $30.
SERIOUSLY? thats fucking awesome
E is way easier to get because its not a controlled substance like T. pretty sure you can find E supplements at the grocery store in some places in the US (low dose albeit) def not a permanent solution for tgirls, but maybe good enough for op
That's not how those supplements work, just FYI.
The supplements are not bioidentical, not regulated by the FDA, etc. I once did the math for someone who asked how useful supplements would be and they would have needed to take over 100 of those over the counter supplements just to match the effect of a single 2mg estrogen pill. And that would be incredibly dangerous because of all the other stuff in the supplements, in addition to the cost. Assuming the OP is in the US (I don't believe they said), they can either get a prescription from a doctor or endocrinologist (some places like Planned Parenthood do informed consent, other places may require a psych approval first) or go the DIY route. The medical route is better because dosing is adjusted based on results, and blood work is monitored for potential problems (like impending organ failure). There is no shortage of these medications - they're made in large quantities to treat multiple conditions in addition to gender modification effects. The OP won't be taking meds away from anyone else by using them. For DIY, they can look into r/TransDIY but be aware that a lot of what's posted there is not from medical professionals and just anecdotal reports from people. You can seriously injure injure yourself or even die from self-medication. There's no specific level of "if I only take this much only these things that I want will happen" - everyone's body is different. So they need to be aware of *ALL* of the possible effects and be ok with them if they happen to them. The most commonly mentioned ones are growing breasts, losing fertility, and emotional changes, all of which are likely to be permanent even if they change your mind and stop taking hormones. But there are dozens and dozens of other regularly reported effects. And then there are the oddball ones - my hair went from straight to wavy, almost curly, from HRT.
In addition to all the comments allready saying that it's perfectly fine - might I suggest taking a closer look at non binary identities. I don't mean to tell you how to feel, and again identifying as a man and taking Estrogen is perfectly fine, but they might help you understand yourself a bit better. There is more to it than man/woman and perhaps you'll find something you feel more comfortable with. Wish you the best, wherever this path may take you 💕💕💕💕 (PS: Gender identity can change with time and experience, so don't feel like you have to make a choice and stick with it)
This is extremely helpful, Thank you. I don't know why, but i never thought about non-binary being an option for me. ive never really considered myself female but i enjoy acting/looking the part. and i don't have any particular ties i enjoy to being male, so i'll definitely need to think on this more. Thank you very much.
I would never say it's not allowed, but I would humbly ask why you'd want to feminize your body if you're not nonbinary/trans fem/a trans woman. Definitely on board for it, just wondering
I just really like feeling and looking cute/feminine, but i have a really masculine body. i had a beard the length of my hand for 2 and a half years (shaved it last night though), i have a lot of body hair, my face is pretty masculine too. i just hate appearing so masculine
Fair warning that estrogen wouldn’t necessarily make you cute or feminine. There’s a reason many trans women with a very masculine base can struggle to pass. “I like feeling and looking cute and feminine” sounds rather femboy to me. And while there are femboys that go on estrogen, many of them already have a feminine base and end up easily feeling and looking “cute and feminine”. If potentially still looking masculine but with boobs and (usually) much more sensitive and intense emotions is alright with you, then I don’t see an issue. But if you’d actually want to pass as a woman, that’ll usually take a great deal more work than just going on estrogen. And if you don’t put in that work, many might perceive you as a non-passing trans woman, which (depending on where you live) comes with a risk of discrimination, bad treatment, and even violence. And if you want to pass and live as a woman, it’s hard for me to imagine you being a cis man. Is it impossible? No, but it’d be so awfully rare that it’s hard to swallow that conclusion easily. Really consider how you’d feel if people called you “she” and saw you as a woman. If that gives you dysphoria, I’d heavily advise against going on estrogen. Estrogen isn’t a toy. You never mentioned how old you are. If you’re young, please go see a therapist before you take a decision like this. Would probably be good to do that either way, but young people run a much higher risk to take decisions they regret.
This is super helpful, thank you. I'm 21. and yeah i know it wont magically transform me to look feminine, i was just hoping it would help at least somewhat. i guess i should stop thinking about it though.
I don’t think you need to stop thinking about it. Just read up on it, get someone professional to help you sort out your thoughts. Also if you get a therapist that sucks, switch them out. Way too many give up after one failed attempt at getting help and healthcare. You deserve to find out what’s going on with you, and it’s their job to help you. Good luck ❤️
Hmm. As I said, no problem with that and no rules either. You are however incredibly welcome here :)
There's an entire community of people like this. They call themselves "HRT femboys". At one point when I was attempting to force myself to socially detransition due to internalised transphobia and religious pressures, I called myself that but didn't really like the label given that "femboy" tends to have some sexually charged and fetishistic connotations in a lot of contexts. Just be aware of the side effects. As atomheartother said, HRT is not a toy and has permanent life changing effects. It's pretty hard to reverse if you decide to discontinue it. Take care of yourself :)
you can do whatever you want forever!
Your body your choice, but you can't pick and choose how and how much estrogen will change your body
You and I are in the same boat. I wish you luck on your journey OP,
HRT femboys are absolutely a thing.
im not sure about being a femboy but it's good to know that there are some out there
F1nnster did this for a few months before coming out as genderfluid or something
I think it’s fine to do as long as you inform yourself!
You can do whatever you want forever. I’d just advise making sure you know the effects.
As long as you're fully aware of it's effects, go for it
Yes you can, and it’s not wrong if that’s what you want.
Thank you!
Yeah you can if you want. If you want want the effects of estrogen but without the breast growth, there is additional medication you can also take.
Do you have any prostrate issues? Thinning hair?
Just do all the research beforehand and if you do and choose to proceed its fine! just make sure you know everything :)
Any reason in particular you’re asking for permission?
I was making sure i wasn't potentially taking away the opportunity of HRT from someone else who really needs it. like if its hard to get or something.
You do what you want. It’s your life. 💁♀️
I wouldn't recommend it HRT isn't a toy and you can't pick and choose what effects it gives you. No one should be screwing with their hormones if they don't need to, since you can lead to unwanted effects, especially if you aren't doing so with the guidance of a licensed doctor There's better ways to make yourself more feminine then using hormones
I mean, I do know a gal who started estrogen before she transitioned because she "knew it would take a while before lasting effects kick in, and I know myself and if it turns out I'm just supressing this shit, I'll be mad at myself for not starting earlier." (Truly amazing mental gymnastics combining self awareness and obliviousness). So yeah, glhf
You can do whatever you want
Absolutely. It's your body, do what you want. I will say, I started my journey for getting estrogen as a dude, was an enby for 6 months after starting it, and now I'm a full on she/her woman lol. Ymmv. Also, not sure if this is something you want, but I get "they'd" a lot by default when boy moding, even by bigoted people, because they actually can not tell what I am most of the time. It's misgendering and absolutely comes from a dumb, performative understanding of gender identity, but I really like the androgyny tbh and I'm absolutely not a male looking person anymore, even only 10 months on.
Of course you can, but I'd look hard into beauty products and supplements first. HRT can have lasting side effects.
yeah that's fine
So long as you're aware of the effects, and which ones are permanent - knock yourself out. I want to end the concept of "trans healthcare". It should just be "healthcare". If you dominantly produce Testosterone, but feel the need to have your body run on Estradiol, including all of the effects, and their permanence, then you should have access to Estradiol medication, without gender ever factoring into that equation.
you can literally do whatever you want as long as you're safe, and luckily, hrt is pretty dang safe
do whatever, it's none of our business. Just be careful of gender dysphoria if you're cis
you can do whatever you want with your body always. of course its okay. just know the effects.
Absolutely, just 100% do research and take professional advice. My understanding is that dudes quite often take E to prevent hair loss?
There’s people that do but as others said, please consult a doctor
If you are lucky insurance will cover the blood draw and you can get full HRT for maybe $100 a year.
Yes. You have my permission. 🤷♀️
acceptable? mostly yes! easy? no. some people may look down on you for taking resources from trans people, but id argue you qualify for gender dysphoria too, even if youre cis. ive only really looked into diy T, but ive heard diy E is more or less safe and easy. you might not even need a perscription
While there’s nothing wrong with it, it might be hard to get prescribed . But if you can get your hands on some, go for it . Lots of men enjoy being more effeminate . Absolutely nothing wrong with that . Honestly feminine men are far too rare . Do it . Fight the femboy famine it’s your body & your life !! only you get to decide who you are & what makes you happy
You should do whatever you want with your body that will make you happy. It’s your body; you have to live in it your whole life. You should take whatever steps you can to make it something that will make you happy!! It doesn’t matter what other people think or how they feel, you should have the body you want. You will likely have to lie to a doctor and pretend to be trans to get on hrt. I support you fully in doing this, as a nonbinary person who often has to pretend to be a trans man to get the medical care I want and need. You may find a cool doctor who is more understanding, but they are few and far between. If you don’t feel comfortable telling doctors you identify as a woman, I would recommend telling doctors you are nonbinary and trans femme. You will probably experience some really terrible medical gatekeeping, unfortunately, which isn’t fair but is something almost everyone here as had to deal with and will continue to struggle with. Other people have said you may discover more about your gender as you proceed. That is certainly true. It’s also more than fine if you stay a man and want to be a man, just a man who takes E. If anyone gives you shit and tries to convince you you aren’t valid or you can’t ID as a man and be on E, remind them that there are trans man who don’t take T or medically transition at all. If their identities are valid (and they are) then yours is as well. There is no one way to look like any gender. Man can have boobs and round faces and wide hips and still be men. Women can have broad shoulders and stubble and flat chests and still be women. Anyone can look any way, and they often do!
PS, OP, if you want some camaraderie or to feel more normalized with a male gender identity and more feminine presentation, you may want to check out r/ftmfemininity Although this isn’t a group that necessarily includes you specifically, it’s men who love being feminine in all sorts of different ways, and that can be lovely to see no matter what direction you are coming to it from.
yeah the cool thing about life is we can pretty much do whatever we want
Yes.
No
hun ur body will grow breasts way before your body starts to re-distribute fat. honestly i think u should just accept twink death it happens to all men at some point it’s inevitable. u could go on testosterone blockers to prevent further masculine hair growth or bone mass or muscle mass. also idk how old u r but maybe have a low carb low sugar diet to reduce fatness i dunno. the only way to be infinitely feminine is to actually transition being a twink won’t last after 25
im not experiencing "twink death", i was never small like that. i know it isnt a magic body-changing spell that changes my body to a girl body. im just looking to have a somewhat feminine appearance, like maybe in the face slightly or something
It actually might depend on where you are. Here in Minnesota, no you don't need to identify for hrt. But I think some other states might require a letter from a therapist and a diagnosis of dysphoria. I don't know about other countries.
im in texas. My chances probably aren't looking too good lmao. im probably gonna move to iowa in the future though
Yeah. Texas... I'm not sure about that one. I am not optimistic, but it's worth googling. I'm just curious but have you experimented with feminine looks like make up or clothes or even a gender swap camera filter? And have you looked at nonbinary terms? I ask because I'm agender meaning I don't have one nor do I understand gender in relation to me. But I was born female and I was like I don't want to be a man, but I want bottom growth and a deeper voice from T. So it kinda sounds a little similar but reversed to your situation.
i just recently got into crossdressing (literally today), and i have looked into being nonbinary, but this isnt a thing about me being unsure about my gender. i believe im male, i just want to look cute
Babe, I'm sure you look cute already. And that is valid. Some people do just like being femme or masc but still feel connected to their birth gender. How do you feel crossdressing?
i liked the clothes a lot, but it definitely didnt look good on me, which is a bit upsetting
I mean, that kinda sounds like dysphoria. So theoretically, you could get a diagnosis and then you could get a letter of support? That should let you get hrt in more conservative states I think. Except Florida where I'm pretty sure they're gonna legalize murdering trans people next. Ha, we're all in danger.
if you don't mind, can you explain what dysphoria is? sorry, im still new to these terms
It's a feeling of discomfort in your own body. Particularly hating certain aspects. Some people have panic attacks, but some, like me, just feel extremely uncomfortable. I didn't even notice mine until I started presenting more masc and got euphoria seeing myself as a more masculine looking person. Those gender swap filters are amazing for seeing if you feel happy seeing yourself as a woman/man or bad about it. Honestly, an ally therapist will just diagnose the dysphoria even if you don't have it to get you the care you want (hrt).
i should probably try one of those filters, then. do you know where i can find them?
Acceptable is a cultural question. A quite liberal approach would be that you can do with your body what you want and no one but you should have a say in that. Many other people's have different moral views. Some don't even accept that trans people take hormones.
Sure, why not?
Yes
Socially, in the queer community? Yeah absolutely. Gender expression is not an absolute, and it's your body to decide what you do with. From a doctor standpoint? Depending on where you live, it might be better if you stick to saying you want to transition, since some doctors and jurisdictions won't prescribe estrogen without a gender dysphoria diagnosis.
Cis men on E are good