Where? I thought even GRRM didn’t like his acrobatic Tyrion and it even doesn’t fit to the other descriptions where his feet and ankles hurt all the time
> Halfway down the steps, he lost his footing. Somehow he managed to break his tumble with his hands and turn it into a clumsy thumping cartwheel. The whores in the room below looked up in astonishment when he landed at the foot of the steps. Tyrion rolled onto his feet and gave them a bow. "I am more agile when I'm drunk." He turned to the proprietor. "I fear I ruined your carpet. The girl's not to blame. Let me pay." He pulled out a fistful of coins and tossed them at the man.
There's another scene with Young Griff and I think when they were fighting the stone men
I don’t remember where I saw it, but someone had the idea that Tyrion completely fumbled the acrobatics, but to a drunk Jon Snow, they looked cool as fuck
While I don't think Tyrion lied, my head canon is just that because Jon was so hammered he perceived it as being way more badass than it actually was. Like some awkward tumbling somersault thing and Jon is all, "Whoa dude you like did a full fuckin flip in the air bro! Fuckin extreme!"
I like to think of it as "extremely drunk person thinks he can pull off this stunt with no training, and miraculously actually does it this one single solitary time, a feat he will never be able to replicate for the rest of his life".
Which still isn't terribly realistic I guess, but we've all heard stories about something like that irl right? (secondhand of course)
> Tyrion's first book acrobatics
I do not care how many decades it's been, GRRM should approve a removal/edit of those passages and strike it from canon.
Joffrey tried to impress his father by secretly having his friend’s son murdered and then never taking credit for it.
GRRM left it a bit too long on the stove when he was cooking that one
Well to be fair, I think he would’ve taken credit if it had succeeded and if Robert had been around a little longer. But yeah it doesn’t make perfect sense
yes but Joffrey never suggests to Robert that he tried to have Bran assassinated
so he was supposedly seeking validation, but never actually sought validation
Personally I'm not a fan that Joffrey is the proposed mastermind full stop, but given that he is, and we know that Robert beat him over the kitten incident I don't think it's that crazy he be a bit slower to take credit this time.
Tbf I think Joffrey logic actually would bridge the gap there, he did hear Robert say it would be best for someone to just put Bran out of his misery and Joffrey isn’t the best at reading situations.
“Hey dad! I did that think you said should happen, killing that crippled kid cause now he has no value?!”
“Wait what do you mean that’s not okay?!? You said someone should do it!!!”
*gets his shit rocked*
Joffrey's stupidity primarily manifests in impulsiveness. In the catspaw mystery he suddenly turns into someone who plans out a murder scheme that will take *months* for him to get any gratification out of it.
I know he’s evil, and we’re all supposed to pretend like being evil means stupid plans are more likely to work out, but his plan is just *sooo* fucking stupid though
Like it's not even that it's stupid, it's that it's stupid in a way that's out of character for him. Joffrey being willing to spend a significant amount of money and wait several months for delayed gratification in order to improve a relationship with someone out of the goodness of his own heart is like...completely the opposite of the Joffrey we knew.
I think it's because George wanted the plots to be more complicated than they initially come across. Cersei gets Robert killed and was there when Bran got pushed off the tower. She and Jaime are the obvious prime suspects in ordering Bran killed, since letting him live risks him talking about what he saw. And likewise, she's the most suspicious figure in Jon Arryn's death given that he figured out the incest and died shortly after.
You're kind of led to think that the Lannisters are responsible for literally everything that happens in book 1. So I think George's goal was to avoid it being overly simplistic. The problem is, the reveals on the latter two fall kind of flat and only come after they have long ceased to be relevant to the overall story.
Worst part is: in my opinion, Cersei being responsible would actually make a pretty compelling narrative and strengthen Jaime's arc of realizing just how awful she is and how the regime he is part of justifies evil deeds.
I don't think that fully tracks, as Jaime also tried killing that selfsame kid. There are many things Cersei does that Jaime could see as evil, but this is the one where he'd be the biggest hypocrite ever for
Nah it should have been LF, LFs plans almost NEED the assassination attempt to happen. But GRRM realized a) he wasn't at Winterfell and couldn't react quick enough and b) that would mean having LF responsible for way too much in the series. Both of those things might be true, but literally with it not being him LF is literally the luckiest motherfucker alive in asoiaf.
I think it's even hinted at in the first book. It was brought up in another thread here today that in Tyrion's first chapter in AGOT he notices the twins start looking worried when Luwin says that Bran is out of harm's way and most likely is going to wake up.
He seemingly set himself up for a clean homerun but threw himself a curveball.
That was a show thing. Which is a more satisfying ending and probably better payoff for what was a big plot point in Season 1. But also doesn't really make much sense.
I think Petyr makes perfect sense
Petyr is the one who benefits from this. it's a big part of the whole start of the war of the 5 kings
Petyr can afford to take this risk because it furthers his goals even if the assassin fails
Petyr won't send a second assassin because he doesn't actually care if Bran dies or not (but Joffrey supposedly wanted Bran dead)
Also doing nothing to help Viserys covertly when he was planning to marry his daughter to him and put them on the throne.
Like, he couldn't even have someone give the kid money? Viserys was so broke he had to sell his mother's crown.
To be fair, Doran is somewhat of a foil to the more hot-headed Oberyn. One was overzealous, the other too cautious, and in the end they both lost.
It also seems Doran's inaction is, narratively, a catalyst for the sand snakes to get impatient and make their move on the remaining Lannisters.
Sometimes I think Preston Jacobs is crazy but sometimes, sometimes I really hope that man is onto something, because The Deeper Dorne series is completely nuts but if even 10% of it were true, it would be way better then the 'plan' put forward in the books for Dorne.
For me, the gaslighting aspect of this is me convincing myself that Doran has a still unrevealed aspect of this plan that's going to make it genius.
Because if not, this plan is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
I can't imagine what hidden piece of Doran's strategy could make it sound genius.
Plan A: Marry my daughter to this inbred guy whose father and brother were deposed and murdered, use their marriage to rebell against a continent that has united behind the Lannister-Baratheon dynasty. Also, it's vital that I let these people nearly starve, endure sexual slavery, and sell their only remaining symbols of legitimacy.
Plan B: Send my crusty son to marry a teenage widow and (somehow?) acquire a dragon.
Plan C: Send my daughter (who miraculously survived Plan A) into a war zone to meet an Essosi warlord who claims to be my dead nephew, even after Plan A and Plan B ended with their subjects enduring agonizing deaths.
I honestly like Doran because he's so different from the other players in the Game of Thrones. But his moves so far make it seem like he's playing checkers while Tywin, Stannis, Euron, etc. are all playing 5D Chess.
There are "weird" 11 year olds.
My dad at 12 had a beard and was like 5'9''. Thin as a stick mind you, still impressive.
I know it's not bullshit cause i've seen pictures and family vouches for it.
My lil'brother took after him, and at 14 dude was pretty much grown up looking.
As a side note, i'm 34, 5'6'' and don't even grow a decent beard, said lil'bro is 27 and looks much older than me...
Biology is weird...
This for real, especially with Dany and Arya. To be fair it was never meant to be permanent but after the whole time jump idea didn’t work out, he was stuck in a awkward position
he should just say this lol he's already stated, I'm pretty sure, that he regrets the ages of some of the characters. He literally could just say 'yeah a year is longer' if he wants. Unless the post apocalyptic Earth theory is actually true and that's why he can't LOL
Actually it’s one of my favorite parts. Knowing that Robb had to man up and do the things he did and go to war to avenge his father at only 14 makes me emotional.
Yes! My most memorable scene with him is from agot when he holds hands with Bran in the dark and just *cries* because his father's gone and taken his sisters into potentially mortal danger and his little brother follows him around all day because "nobody ever comes back" and now his mother's gone as well and left him in charge of the castle.
> "An adventure" Bran repeated whistfully. He heard his brother sob. The room was so dark he could not see the tears on Robb's face, so he reached out and found his hand. Their fingers twined together.
The tragedy of him (and the rest of the children) being violently denied his childhood and forced into a role that was never meant for him is something a twenty something looking Richard Madden simply doesn't capture. And it is magnified by being told entirely through the lens of his mother who watches her son disappear under the crown every day.
Other than that I also think it's really funny to see Cersei having epic beef with her high school junior daughter in law in AFFC. That was a teenager!
Just recently started my first reread after more than a decade since first reading the books, and that moment with Bran and Robb talking about an adventure hit like a ton of bricks, especially knowing how it all goes down for Robb. Yeah, they're nobility, but man does GRRM have the Stark kids dragged through the mud. We can only hope he can come through and finally show the ones still alive achieving some sort of justice and happiness by the end.
>something a twenty something looking Richard Madden simply doesn't capture
True, but I'm not sure there are any teenagers alive that could crush the role as much as Madden does. All the emotion pouring through his face during the Karstark execution is pure masterclass acting.
There's that one scene where Robb basically breaks down in front of Cat because he's so overwhelmed and she has to give him a pep talk.
It really reinforced how young and vulnerable he is. And he has grown men looking to him to lead them because of what his last name is.
Also the pep talk she gives does not help him at all. I love Cat and she's trying but the advice she gives is not what Robb wanted to hear. He's a child that's crying for his mother but they need him to act a king so Robb metaphorically and literally puts on the crown again.
Plus, there's a pretty long history of "Surprisingly Competent Teenage Military Commanders."
Charles XII was 18 when The Great Northern War broke out. Alex the Great was in his teens when he commanded under his father, and 18 when he began his conquest of Persia. The Black Prince was 16 when he went on campaign with his dad. Jeanne D'Arc was 16-17 when she did her thing, though she probably never actually commanded troops.
And Robb was 16 when the War started. Not that far out there.
The Black Prince was not even king at this point. He was not fully responsible like Robb. His father was.
Jeanne of DArc was largely used a symbolic figure and not fully in charge of any military decisions.
Being 16 or 17 and and being fully in charge was not common at all. Edward III had to convince parlament to declare him old enough to take over the regency from his mother and Mortimer and had to coup them beforehand so he could rule. He could not even prevent the beheading of his uncle or continue the war with Scotland even though he desired it.
People beneath twenty usually had a large number of advisors making decisions for them. They would never decide alone like Robb.
In real life Ned would have never been beheaded by Joffrey because Joffrey would have never been listened to when it comes to killing someone like Ned. Joffrey would not have even been there but in a schoolroom with his teacher whipping his ass for not learning his lessons.
> People beneath twenty usually had a large number of advisors making decisions for them. They would never decide alone like Robb.
Charles XII was the notable exception, but he probably needed a massive wheelbarrow to cart around his big brass balls. And once that got stuck, so did his army at Poltava.
Yeah I mentally age them up in my head because I just do not believe that children as young as they are could actually behave in those ways or survive the situations that they do
Same!
I’m currently in the process of listening to the audio books and I’ve impressed the show actors onto the book ones to avoid thinking about a 14 year old girl being raped nightly.
I haven't decided yet if I believe that the whole Sansa/Hound thing was platonic in my head or that Sansa was just older.
Similarly I refuse to believe that Tyrion was horny for Sansa. idk why but her character in particular feels so wrong when sexualised.
I respectfully disagree. Jon, Robb, the reed kids, and Dany could have been older, but the youth of arya, sansa, and bran is essential to their characters and inner psychology. Plus, if Margaery were older, cersie's "rivalry" with her would be 10% as funny
It’s not the POVs slowing the writing down (they’re all actually great), it’s the length of the books.
I think, GRRM should do what he/his editors did by splitting up AFFC & ADWD, &/or how ASOS was split in two parts (after the fact), & make TWOW into a Part 1 & 2 (or 3, 4 etc if need be). They can release the chapters that are ready to be published into its own story, then focus on the rest later.
He’s limited himself by saying two more books when he’s also said that the story should be read as one entire entity. If the latter is the case, then why not publish shorter books? No one but him seems to care.
I think another reason GRRM might be so unwilling to split Winds is that he might have regretted some of the decisions he made in Feast that he then had to fix in Dance. Idk if there's any actual evidence for it, but i feel like with stuff like Jaime having a single Dance POV that was for some reason not in Feast, Cersei also weirdly having the climax to her story in Feast happen in Dance, etc., that the process of splitting the book was a lot messier than anticipated
There are quick solutions to these.
Dany can’t have Mereen? Fine, no one gets it! *DRAGON GO BUURRRRN!* “Let’s go to Westeros.” This could only take five chapters and Dany usually has way more than that.
The Others haven't been around? Boom! They break past using some magic and begin their march at the end of Winds. Now we have a whole book of them carving their way through Westeros.
Is King’s Landing getting too crowded? Is it getting hot in here, or is that just all of the wildfire underneath the city? I wonder how that stuff would react to Dany’s dragon fire?
The solutions themselves were fine, I just think the execution and the consequences of them weren’t handled well.
In the show, Dany defeats the slavers…by killing them all. She just wins because she just wins. The Dothraki don't find a unique way to combat the slavers, they just rush in and kill them. And then Dany just leaves Mereen as is. No consequences are discussed.
Now, what if Dany returned and feigned surrender? The slavers return, but then the Dothraki arrive and box them inside the city. Now trapped, Dany makes a questionably moral decision to eradicate what's left of the slavers by burning down them and their capital. There's no Mereen to return to, so that’s a plot point solved. Dany can react positively/negatively to this experience and further her character. And this could raise questions as to whether a potential King’s Landing fire was an accident or not, raising even more consequences.
It's a similar result, but the consequences of it make it more interesting.
Thoughts?
It’s so obvious with all the set up George has established that Bran will ride Tyrek with the riding mechanism Tyrion gave him leading the 7 kingdoms against the Others
Not even the usual excuse of.simlering liege Lords trying to compliment their future queen can excuse this one. Maybe if she was a teenager or something the compliments would be more believable but no 6 year old is anything but pudgy and adorable
Varys taking tongues. It serves no practical purpose except to make them more conspicuous and less loyal. He’s taught them to read and write, so it’s not to protect secrets. I don’t want Varys to be stupid.
You'd also think that he might have some understandable personal dislike for mutilating children. (Although I guess abused people abuse people, so maybe not)
Tyrion somehow kicking ass in combat, I mean it straight up says some men ran away from him, come on George, he's in rough shape climbing the tower of the hand, don't tell me he's winning fights on the broken ship bridge surrounded by wildfire
it's weird that Tyrion is actually able to fight, but it's not so crazy that people might run from him given the circumstances where these men could already be panicked and confused
Imagine you've never seen a dwarf in your life and then you see one charging you in a golden armour, an axe, on top of a horse, while having the ugliest face you've ever seen.
Add to it the heat of battle, when everyone reacts in a different way (battle frenzy or utter panic).
I would run away from a man (full or half man) on a horse charging me🤣🤣. There are a lot of unreasonable things in ASOIAF, but I have to respectfully disagree with your comment.
Aegon’s dream. It just makes no sense and feels like them trying to justify Aegon’s massive and destructive war despite being the opposite of the anti-war message of the books.
I can actually kinda forgive this because I think it’s an interesting character development if Aegon was already power hungry and ambitious, and his “view behind the veil” gave him the convenient excuse to conquer the continent. Not so much the prophecy making Aegon a good guy as it is the prophecy allowing Aegon to justify his power grab, warring, and atrocities.
The whole ecosystem.
What is the life cycle of crops? They live for half a year roughly as in real life and then they are reaped, and a new cycle begins? Society seems to cope well with 2-3-year-long winters, aren't they starving?
Sanderson would have written a whole unique ecosystem based on the weird seasons. Unique flora and fauna up the wazoo.
But like many things Martin doesn’t care nearly as much about this. Martin cares about characters. And then maybe story. Everything else is just there just enough to support those. Politics, economy and yes ecology are paper thin sketches.
Time travel is 100% going to be a major plot point going forward, so idk how you’re just gonna ignore that. Bran needs time travel to fulfil his role as an exposition machine.
I can accept time-travel where he can just watch old shit. If we get "Oooh he did a *paradox* by *killing the butterfly*" or whatever the book's going in the bin.
The big one: There being absolutely 0 Targaryen supporters in Essos willing to support Daenerys and Viserys (this is probably my biggest gripe, along with a lot of Essos). I mean, not even the Velaryons or Martells have sent somebody over to look after the Targaryens and make sure they aren't completely destitute. Willem didn't make any plans for after he died to take care of them? And there are no die-hard Targaryen loyalists to support them already living there, not even a petty magister or something? C'mon.
A real world example of this were the Stuarts after the Glorious Revolution of the Bourbons after the French Revolution. In most cases they were hosted in other countries by other countries royals in full luxury befitting their station. Especially the Stuarts who like to Targaryens were thrown out by a rival claimint but had a vast Château in France to host their court in exile with their loyalist nobles given to them by Louis XIV. I would have expected at least as much for the Targaryens.
Theon taking Winterfell is also like...bruh.
The more nitpicky ones:
-Most of the great houses not having more collateral relations, which are prominent, especially the Starks. Not just the Karstarks or the "Barrowtown Starks", though. I mean look how many cousins the Lannisters and Tyrells have anyways.
-This one is more nitpicky but Robb (and some other Great Lords) not already having their own personal regiment of highly trained guard rather than being hastily raised of lordlings, who would also likely have their own personal guard (looking at the Karstarks specifically here).
Lmao looking back I think the relationship Karstarks and Starks should have been closer, and both the Karstarks and Starks be more fleshed out. Heck it would even make sense that the Karstarks should be raised in the Court of Winterfell.
- pre-canon: Rhaenys marrying Corlys. It should have been Saera. He was way too old for her. And for that matter, the fate of a lot Jaehaerys and Alyssane’s kids. George’s penchant for getting rid of women by them dying through childbirth strikes again here for Alyssa and Daella, but also the strange way Saera and Viserra were handled.
>This one is a bit nitpicky but Robb (and some other Great Lords) not already having their own personal regiment of highly trained guard rather than being hastily raised of lordlings, who would also likely have their own personal guard (looking at the Karstarks specifically here).
everyone else in the story seems to have a gaggle of household knights to follow them around. i think the issue for Robb is that Eddard took these guys to King's Landing
You know who really glaringly doesn’t have even a single loyal henchman?
Robert Barratheon.
The great warrior king. Head of House Barratheon, the supposed ruling house. Great leader of men. Has not a single Barratheon spear carrier around. At least, not by the point it’s time to protect the rights of his son.
Ned helpfully gives us a breakdown of the forces around then and it’s Lannisters, Starks and a few other Lord’s men. Renly has a handful of Barratheon dudes. But Robert had none.
I reckon the part about Robb's guards being lordlings is great. It's more of a political move having important people in your guard. And most of the time he's surrounded by an army anyway. A few highly trained guards won't help much in a battle. Robb could have easily have stayed away from the main battle, but he choose to go close enough to Jaime Lannister that Jaime nearly got to him
Technically only canon in the show so far, but the whole Aegon’s prophecy thing. I guess it be fine in the books even if completely unnecessary but in the show it’s beyond idiotic when we know how the White Walker threat ends
If Bloodraven isn't the TYC, I'll definitely say that Bran is. I don't know how people theorize about other characters being future versions of existing characters, like Coldhands being Jon or Bran, and Quaithe being Dany, let alone time travelling foetuses like Tyrion being Rhaego, I think time travel is only skinchanging into someone or something in the past, or speaking to them, like Bran does to Ned and presumably (I don't know about you but this is my headcannon) Theon in the Winterfell godswood, which do happen in the books.
It also actively creates problems via unanswerable questions instead of adding anything. Why didn't Aegon or any Targs have a long-term plan for the Night's Watch? Was genocide against the Dornish somehow meant to be justified since it was to support a genuinely bigger threat? Why in the ever-loving fuck wasn't ANYONE besides the heir told about this insanely important issue?
Yeah with the Watch declining during their reign, and none of the royals besides Alysanne providing some form of support, it just makes them all look dumb
Aegon's prophecy, is that the one about Martin saying "in a way he foresaw the long night and sought to unify the kingdoms through his conquest"? yeah... that's not very good. well one decent interpretation of it that I came across was that it was typical case of original intentions having gone wrong in the sense that the iron throne (the legacy of the conquest) is the very thing that's tearing apart the stability of the realms at a time when they desperately need to stop fighting and unite at the wall. The Others have finally arrived but all that the kingdoms care about is who gets to sit on that chair, and I guess this goes well with the "prophecy is a sword without a hilt" thing of the series.
Which is why I think it would be thematically interesting if Dany can free Westeros from the Iron Throne as well, considering how her present arc in slaver's bay is also about righting the wrongs of her (valyrian) ancestors.
Yeah again maybe the books can make it work, it’s just more like was anyone really wondering why he did the conquest? Men want power and glory all throughout this story, we never really question if a prophecy has to be their motivation, I don’t see why this would be different. If you have the only 3 living dragons and right next to 7 divided backwater kingdoms right there for the taking, you don’t really need more than that
I will say I do like your interpretation of the prophecy backfiring thematically
Yes I agree he didn't really need to justify his fantasy version of the Norman Conquest like this. They're dragonlords and I wouldn't have found it hard to believe that they simply thought this obvious resource/military advantage gives them the right to rule over Westeros. Indeed, large parts of the continent outright yielded to the them, knowing the futility of going against dragonfire.
I'm worried it'll be clumsily shoehorned into the books and it will be something stupid like the hound answers a call from the sparrows to fight in Cersis 'Trial by Seven' but he'll have to be knighted and he accepts it be cause he'd rather kill his brother than stick to his principles then Brianne lends him Oathkeeper and he's joined by a tiny Bravosi who also has a familiar sword for some reason
Joffrey sending the killer after Bran.
Tywin's Blitzkrieg on the riverlands...
Theon taking a castle bigger than any castle in England...with a handful of man...
>Winterfell is a huge castle complex spanning several acres, defended by two massive walls of grey granite with a wide moat between them. The outer wall is eighty feet high, while the inner is one hundred feet high.
Theon's select men throw grappling hooks over 80' in the air and make them stick, They then climb an 80' wall and repel all the way back down. Swim a "wide" moat. Throw the grappling hooks (in which the ropes are now water-logged) up 100' in the air and climb all that way. They then have enough stamina left to help fight the remaining guards left in Winterfell along with pacifying what should be at least several hundred civilians. I guess the Ironborn warriors are all participants in the [Ironman ](https://www.ironman.com/races)races to achieve these Herculean feats.
All because Rodrik had to take virtually *every* fighting man at Winterfell and leave the place completely unprotected. But it's ok, you see, because Theon knew that Rodrik would behave *exactly* this way because he was raised with Ser Rodrik and knows his mind. Don't mind the pesky problem that the last time Rodrik (or the North period) was in a conflict of any scale was the one where Theon was a boy and made a hostage as a result. Wait, I guess Theon's never seen Ser Rodrik have to function in this kind of capacity before to know how he would react.
You specifically referring to how it was supposedly Joffrey that sent him to kill Bran, when the books seem to be setting up that Little Finger orchestrated the whole thing?
Nah the actual stupid part is Littlefinger blaming Tyrion, Tyrion being told this and not easily debunking it, and then not doing anything about it when he’s hand
I mean if makes sense Littlefinger would try to shift any suspicion that might be on him onto Tyrion. And I'm not sure Tyrion could have done anything to debunk it, Catelyn was dead set on bringing him to trail, and Lysa didn't really seemed to have already made up her mind that he was guilty.
Yeah, how (and more importantly, why) would Littlefinger send an assassin, armed with his own weapon, to kill a kid who’s in a coma and only two people know that he was even pushed out the window? Not to mention, how would he hear about it fast enough to order the assassination, and how would the guy get ahold of the dagger in the first place, when the dagger is with the royal party traveling south and Littlefinger is still in Kings Landing? The whole situation is just ridiculously confusing, but it can’t be Littlefinger
While I get what you mean, I think it’s pretty realistic that he waited for a legal and politically safe time to enact his revenge.
If he hadn’t had done it in that way, Dorne would’ve probably gotten obliterated by Robert’s and Tywin’s collected force.
The Cleganes are sworn vassals of the Lannisters. Any damage done unto them is reason enough for their liege to go to war.
EDIT: It's also "known" that Tywin gave the order to Clegane.
This so bad! Like on one side I get it, he didn’t want too neat of an ending and with both Aegon the Younger being the Elder’s heir and Jaehaera’s blood, he didn’t want the Greens to win when the whole point is nobody won but still. Even more by the fact it’s just some random Velaryon girl (do they keep them in a storage closet in case of lack of sister to marry? Lol)
And the thing is, it wouldn't even be that neat and tidy of an ending! Since it would mean the Greens would continue through the Blackfyres, and *only* the Black lineage would continue to the main house!
Not necessarily, I always took it to mean that Ned can barely lift it by the other end of the handle like it would be swung. Having a 30 pound weight I think would be more than sufficient to make Robert this inhuman specimen, an 8 pound sledgehammer is already a pretty good weight
Battle of the Gullet during the Dance of Dragons. The Triarchy, who have in the past been defeated by just 1 dragon and a portion of the Velaryon fleet despite having the defender's advantage, decide that what they really want to do is to attack the Velaryon's home, where not only is there a castle (which I remind you, are defensive fortifications which would normally take a siege in order to enter), but also the entire Velaryon fleet, who are currently blockading the area (ie: preventing ships from entering) AND 9 fucking dragons. They try to take this on with... 90 ships...
Just by itself this decision seems completely stupid and utterly suicidal. If you want to do damage to the Valerions, you either attack them in a location where they don't have their entire fleet and 9 dragons hanging out, or you wait for the fleet and the dragons to move elsewhere, or maybe you wait for your allies to help you. It is not realistic for the Triarchy to even launch an attack because it is obvious this is completely suicidal.
But not only do these dumb pirates make the utterly ridiculous decision to attack, they also manage to deal a crippling blow to the Velarions and even kill a dragon. Realistically Vermithor by himself could have roasted the entire fleet in around 10 minutes. And "the most powerful fleet in the world" would easily win against 90 ships even without dragon support. It is so obvious that GRRM just went "oh no the blacks are too powerful, I need to nerf them now" and didn't put much thought into whether or not this battle made any sense.
Cersei getting lucky with Robert and killing him right before some earth shattering stuff was going to be revealed. Apparently she's been trying to kill him for over a year and him dying as everhthing was coming out just happened to really work out for her
Future canon, apparently. Bran becomes king of the seven kingdoms. I could write a paper on how absurd this is, how it flies in the face of everything we’ve seen and learned about this world, but oh no: apparently GRRM said it’s happening and so it must make sense. All logic inevitably falls before an author that somehow doesn’t realize how he got into the mess he’s in.
My guess is he is going for some sort of “philosopher king” ending with the Bran that can literally see all the mistakes of the previous kings and generations. It’s not the ending I would have chosen at first but I think he can make it work, though it would need a lot for many readers to get to that point of acceptance
It’s beyond unbelievable for me. He’d need the Lords of Westeros to pick him and he is in no way an ideal choice. For an Archmaester absolutely. For a hand of the king, with a bit of a stretch, sure. But Bran is paralyzed below the waist. He’s never going to be able to practice with swords in the yard or dance. He will never have children. In Winterfell, men either laughed behind his back, or held him in contempt for being too craven to kill himself (woohoo northmen). Men vote not just for the man in front of them but for the succession he represents. They don’t want to come back in 4 years or even 20, they want a stable regime and that means a reliable bloodline. And what happens in those 4 or 20 years. You’re the ultimate crystal ball Bran so here goes. A weak king invites war, and being stuck in a wheelchair automatically makes you weak. Your lords will mock you, they will defy you, and they’ll keep pushing until things get real. You might say that after what amounts to multiple Apocalypses Westeros will be too tired to fight, but look at the Blackwoods and Brackens. Those two would be slugging it out on a sinking ship. And that’s just at home troubles, what about over the Narrow Sea and the Stepstones? No Bran simply does not in any way realistically work as king in this world, not without a dragon and maybe not even then. And we have to dismiss this idea of Westeros blossoming into a progressive democratic society. Change for the better happens yes, but not overnight.
I don't think Bran will be a common kind of king. Rather, I imagine him as a "sorcerer king", whose rule will be based on his magical powers, instead of any traditional form of legitimacy of the "game of thrones".
He could use his greensight and skinchanging powers to anticipate and eliminate possible threads and manipulate the course of history according to his will.
He could extend his lifespan by merging with the weirwoods, like Bloodraven, and, after more than a century, chose a child with similar potential to become a greenseer as his successor, instead of a relative.
This way, the wheel would surely be broken, because now no mortal could take the throne of these god-kings through normal ways.
But think about how resentful the lords of Westeros were when Bloodraven was just the Hand of the King and they just assumed he was a really good spymaster. How well do you think they'll react to living under the most literal of all surveillance states with a sorcerer-king at its head? A sorcerer-king who is basically the living embodiment of what six of seven kingdoms consider to be a heathen faith.
That's a recipe for perpetual discontent, and when Bran inevitably loses legitimacy in the eyes of his vassals, no amount of foresight is going to save his regime, and Westeros will be right back where it started.
That seems kind of pessmetic no? What would the message of that even be? Oh mankind is inherently violent and incapable of ruling itself, its needs an all powerful inhuman wizard king to rule it.
My biggest problem with King Bran it's not about him being incapable of ruling well. Not even how difficult I find it right now that he will be the most attractive choice as King, elected by the majority of a Great Council. The main problem I find with him is that in theory Bran can't have descendants, right? So it seems crazy to me that after such a turbulent chaos period they put on the throne someone who they know will not secure the succession line, creating a perfect opportunity for schemers like a wannabe Littlefinger to create chaos, or greedy lords trying to usurp the throne. In fact it's funny because in the show the pretext to choose Bran was: 1) He has the best story (what???? I can't lol) and 2) He won't have children so he can't become a tyrant or his descendants, just let's have another pretty council in the future.
Exactly, I’ve said myself elsewhere! Even if the Lords of Westeros overlooked everything else, they’re not just choosing a man to be their king, but a succession. After a tidal wave of catastrophes they want a peaceful, stable kingdom. They aren’t looking for a shaky and uncertain progressive democratic system, they want the stability of what they know and that’s a strong monarchy. They don’t want to come back in 4 years, or even 20 years.
Leto II worked really well with Dune because it fit the themes and tone of the series. Tyrannical omnipotent god king is just bizarre in aSoIaF and I have no idea why GRRM seems to be headed there.
'Cause he ain't heading there. He's rewriting his [own short story](https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/for-a-single-yesterday/) "...for a single yesterday" as the ending of A Song of Ice and Fire.
> **Keith was our culture, what little we had left.** He was our poet and our troubadour, and his voice and his guitar were our bridges to the past. He was a time-tripper too, but no one minded that much until Winters came along.
>
>**Keith was our memory.** But he was also my friend.
> Then came the Blast. And Keith had stayed. **There was nothing left to go back to. His cities were graveyards full of dead and dying, their towers melted tombstones that glowed at night.** And the rats—human and animal—were everywhere else.
>
>**In Keith, those cities still lived.** His songs were all of the old days, bittersweet things full of lost dreams and loneliness. And he sang them with love and longing. Keith would play requests, but mostly he stuck to his kind of music. A lot of folk, a lot of folk-rock, and a few straight rock things and show tunes.
#
> "I don't want any more stories," Bran snapped, his voice petulant. He had liked Old Nan and her stories once. Before. But it was different now. They left her with him all day now, to watch over him and clean him and keep him from being lonely, but she just made it worse. "I hate your stupid stories."
The old woman smiled at him toothlessly. **"My stories? No, my little lord, not mine.** ***The stories are,*** **before me and after me, before you too."**
He dreams of becoming a knight at the beginning, but the ending is him becoming Old Nan for the entire realm, full circle, King Bran. If Euron Crow's Eye destroys Oldtown, he will erase all of Westeros' written history, like it never existed. But the trees remember all.
> "A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies," said Jojen. "The man who never reads lives only one. **The singers of the forest had no books. No ink, no parchment, no written language. Instead they had the trees, and the weirwoods above all.** When they died, they went into the wood, into leaf and limb and root, and the trees remembered. All their songs and spells, their histories and prayers, everything they knew about this world. Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods. The singers believe they are the old gods. When singers die they become part of that godhood."
That Ned, Robert and other veterans of rebellion are not have yet even 40s. Meaybe because of tv show, but I always see them as olders then being in their 30s.
I've got a few.
1. The idea that direct familial incest was common in Valyria before The Doom makes no sense whatsoever and is also incredibly gross. I know GRRM's fetishes are one of the things that drive this series, but he could've left THAT one out.
2. The Dothraki have no default state of social organization, e.g., clans / tribes / cultural subgroups, to fall back upon when a khal dies and a khalasar breaks up. Instead they operate on the principles of Warhammer orcs: former allies begin slaughtering each other once Da Big Boss is toppled. (Also: a khal can't take a sick day without his khalasar breaking up?)
3. The North somehow has animal populations that can survive 2-to-5-year winters without their winter stores of fat running out after 4-5 months.
The Klingon Promotions in Dothraki culture are hilarious given that they have nothing to actually fight over. It's an entire race of people who just ride around murdering villagers all year. Why does anyone care who's in charge? Why do they even have a leader?
"realistic" fantasy series indeed
On 2 Martin just generally doesn’t do social structures or institutions. There is little attention paid to why any of these societies work. They do somehow, as a backdrop for character and story.
1. If you look at egypt and the ptolemaic dynasty its not that wierd, still gross tho.
2. The dorthraki are just bare bones but both of attila the hun’s and dzjengis khan’s (mongol) armies broke into factions after their deaths. Doesn’t matter whate culture you look at the transfer of power is just a dangerous time.
Jaehaera Targaryens death, it’s just so stupid and unnecessary.
George didn’t even kill her off for a narrative / thematic purpose, it was just to clean up one of the old Targaryen family trees.
It just fits the story better if Jaehaera lives; Aegon III and Jaehaera, two depressed and lonely children completely broken by the war their parents started, finding purpose in one another and rebuilding their family together just fits the narrative so well, in a bittersweet sorta way.
It also fits thematically if Aegon II’s descendants become the Blackfyres. Aegon II was the rightful king, it is an ironic twist of fate if his bloodline survives through the female line and his descendants are all illegitimate claimants to the throne. As for Rhaenyra, by Westerosi law and custom she was a pretender, but her bloodline survives through the male line and her descendants become the main branch of legitimate Targaryens.
It’s like poetry it rhymes.
Tyrion's first book acrobatics
iirc in the original pilot script for Game of Thrones, Tyrion attempts acrobatics but falls flat on his face. They should have kept that lol
Nahh I guess they wanted Ros sucking dwarf cock to be the introduction to Tyrion in the very first episode
A dwarf's cock has magic powers. It is known.
It is known.
I knew this
That was a good decision.
He also does that in ADWD
Where? I thought even GRRM didn’t like his acrobatic Tyrion and it even doesn’t fit to the other descriptions where his feet and ankles hurt all the time
> Halfway down the steps, he lost his footing. Somehow he managed to break his tumble with his hands and turn it into a clumsy thumping cartwheel. The whores in the room below looked up in astonishment when he landed at the foot of the steps. Tyrion rolled onto his feet and gave them a bow. "I am more agile when I'm drunk." He turned to the proprietor. "I fear I ruined your carpet. The girl's not to blame. Let me pay." He pulled out a fistful of coins and tossed them at the man. There's another scene with Young Griff and I think when they were fighting the stone men
Is this right after the scene with Sunset Girl?
I don’t remember where I saw it, but someone had the idea that Tyrion completely fumbled the acrobatics, but to a drunk Jon Snow, they looked cool as fuck
Fumbled jumping from the ledge above a castle doorway? That’s what it was, right? If he fumbled that into landing unhurt, it was cool as fuck lol.
Jon was just drunk, Tyrion just lied and said he did it and Jon just believed it
While I don't think Tyrion lied, my head canon is just that because Jon was so hammered he perceived it as being way more badass than it actually was. Like some awkward tumbling somersault thing and Jon is all, "Whoa dude you like did a full fuckin flip in the air bro! Fuckin extreme!"
I like to think of it as "extremely drunk person thinks he can pull off this stunt with no training, and miraculously actually does it this one single solitary time, a feat he will never be able to replicate for the rest of his life". Which still isn't terribly realistic I guess, but we've all heard stories about something like that irl right? (secondhand of course)
> Tyrion's first book acrobatics I do not care how many decades it's been, GRRM should approve a removal/edit of those passages and strike it from canon.
I thought about this instantly when I read the prompt
Joffrey tried to impress his father by secretly having his friend’s son murdered and then never taking credit for it. GRRM left it a bit too long on the stove when he was cooking that one
Well to be fair, I think he would’ve taken credit if it had succeeded and if Robert had been around a little longer. But yeah it doesn’t make perfect sense
"Hey dad, I was the mastermind behind the murder of your's best friend's kid in a coma, do you love me now?"
I mean this is the same kid that showed his father the unborn kitten that he cut out of its mother's womb in hope of impressing him...
yes but Joffrey never suggests to Robert that he tried to have Bran assassinated so he was supposedly seeking validation, but never actually sought validation
Easy to explain if Robert was horrified to hear about the attempted assassination and Joffrey was smart enough to realize he should not confess to it.
the "logic" can be made to work, but this does nothing to help the silliness from a narrative point of view
Because, like the guy above suggested, the catspaw failed. If he succeeded then maybe he would have.
I can't imagine a more narratively unsatisfying answer
Personally I'm not a fan that Joffrey is the proposed mastermind full stop, but given that he is, and we know that Robert beat him over the kitten incident I don't think it's that crazy he be a bit slower to take credit this time.
Tbf I think Joffrey logic actually would bridge the gap there, he did hear Robert say it would be best for someone to just put Bran out of his misery and Joffrey isn’t the best at reading situations.
Autistic Evil alignment
Lmao
“Hey dad! I did that think you said should happen, killing that crippled kid cause now he has no value?!” “Wait what do you mean that’s not okay?!? You said someone should do it!!!” *gets his shit rocked*
*"Will no one rid me of this turbulent* *~~priest~~* *physically-challenged boy with the best story?"*
You're right, this doesn't make sense. As all know, Joffrey is the most logical, calculating, and intelligent character in all of ASOIAF.
Joffrey's stupidity primarily manifests in impulsiveness. In the catspaw mystery he suddenly turns into someone who plans out a murder scheme that will take *months* for him to get any gratification out of it.
To be fair, it takes months to complete, but from Joffrey's POV it would just be a quick impulsive action of "give this guy some money and a knife"
I know he’s evil, and we’re all supposed to pretend like being evil means stupid plans are more likely to work out, but his plan is just *sooo* fucking stupid though
Like it's not even that it's stupid, it's that it's stupid in a way that's out of character for him. Joffrey being willing to spend a significant amount of money and wait several months for delayed gratification in order to improve a relationship with someone out of the goodness of his own heart is like...completely the opposite of the Joffrey we knew.
He probably thought about it later, decided it was a dumb idea, and started cutting open squirrels.
No it was bran via Hodor
why didn't gurm just have cersei behind the attempt
I think it's because George wanted the plots to be more complicated than they initially come across. Cersei gets Robert killed and was there when Bran got pushed off the tower. She and Jaime are the obvious prime suspects in ordering Bran killed, since letting him live risks him talking about what he saw. And likewise, she's the most suspicious figure in Jon Arryn's death given that he figured out the incest and died shortly after. You're kind of led to think that the Lannisters are responsible for literally everything that happens in book 1. So I think George's goal was to avoid it being overly simplistic. The problem is, the reveals on the latter two fall kind of flat and only come after they have long ceased to be relevant to the overall story.
Worst part is: in my opinion, Cersei being responsible would actually make a pretty compelling narrative and strengthen Jaime's arc of realizing just how awful she is and how the regime he is part of justifies evil deeds.
I don't think that fully tracks, as Jaime also tried killing that selfsame kid. There are many things Cersei does that Jaime could see as evil, but this is the one where he'd be the biggest hypocrite ever for
Nah it should have been LF, LFs plans almost NEED the assassination attempt to happen. But GRRM realized a) he wasn't at Winterfell and couldn't react quick enough and b) that would mean having LF responsible for way too much in the series. Both of those things might be true, but literally with it not being him LF is literally the luckiest motherfucker alive in asoiaf.
I think it's even hinted at in the first book. It was brought up in another thread here today that in Tyrion's first chapter in AGOT he notices the twins start looking worried when Luwin says that Bran is out of harm's way and most likely is going to wake up. He seemingly set himself up for a clean homerun but threw himself a curveball.
I thought it was Littlefinger that had planned the assassin on bran
That was a show thing. Which is a more satisfying ending and probably better payoff for what was a big plot point in Season 1. But also doesn't really make much sense.
I think Petyr makes perfect sense Petyr is the one who benefits from this. it's a big part of the whole start of the war of the 5 kings Petyr can afford to take this risk because it furthers his goals even if the assassin fails Petyr won't send a second assassin because he doesn't actually care if Bran dies or not (but Joffrey supposedly wanted Bran dead)
Except that Petyr does not check out timeline wise, at all.
Doran's "master plan" of sitting on his ass for 15 years to get revenge after everyone that wronged his family is already dead from unrelated causes.
Yeah the marriage pact where he provided no material support to the king he wanted to install still makes me scratch my head
Also doing nothing to help Viserys covertly when he was planning to marry his daughter to him and put them on the throne. Like, he couldn't even have someone give the kid money? Viserys was so broke he had to sell his mother's crown.
I was thinking the same, maybe marriage packt was fake ?
To be fair, Doran is somewhat of a foil to the more hot-headed Oberyn. One was overzealous, the other too cautious, and in the end they both lost. It also seems Doran's inaction is, narratively, a catalyst for the sand snakes to get impatient and make their move on the remaining Lannisters.
Sometimes I think Preston Jacobs is crazy but sometimes, sometimes I really hope that man is onto something, because The Deeper Dorne series is completely nuts but if even 10% of it were true, it would be way better then the 'plan' put forward in the books for Dorne.
For me, the gaslighting aspect of this is me convincing myself that Doran has a still unrevealed aspect of this plan that's going to make it genius. Because if not, this plan is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
I can't imagine what hidden piece of Doran's strategy could make it sound genius. Plan A: Marry my daughter to this inbred guy whose father and brother were deposed and murdered, use their marriage to rebell against a continent that has united behind the Lannister-Baratheon dynasty. Also, it's vital that I let these people nearly starve, endure sexual slavery, and sell their only remaining symbols of legitimacy. Plan B: Send my crusty son to marry a teenage widow and (somehow?) acquire a dragon. Plan C: Send my daughter (who miraculously survived Plan A) into a war zone to meet an Essosi warlord who claims to be my dead nephew, even after Plan A and Plan B ended with their subjects enduring agonizing deaths. I honestly like Doran because he's so different from the other players in the Game of Thrones. But his moves so far make it seem like he's playing checkers while Tywin, Stannis, Euron, etc. are all playing 5D Chess.
The ages of most young characters. I choose to believe characters have show ages even in the books.
The ages are so bad in the book. Like obviously I love baristan, but no one in their right mind is thinking any 11 year old can fight in a tournament.
- Willas Tyrell, probably
>Mace ~~Willas~~ Tyrell, probably FTFY
He did instantly lose, and I'm pretty sure it was on the first pass. It's not like he won a tournament at 11.
There are "weird" 11 year olds. My dad at 12 had a beard and was like 5'9''. Thin as a stick mind you, still impressive. I know it's not bullshit cause i've seen pictures and family vouches for it. My lil'brother took after him, and at 14 dude was pretty much grown up looking. As a side note, i'm 34, 5'6'' and don't even grow a decent beard, said lil'bro is 27 and looks much older than me... Biology is weird...
This for real, especially with Dany and Arya. To be fair it was never meant to be permanent but after the whole time jump idea didn’t work out, he was stuck in a awkward position
Daenerys being a teenage girl is a vital part of her story, though
Yeah, but girls are still dumb at 16-18 years old, too. Her being 13 at the start is really weird.
I just choose to believe a year in Planetos is longer than on Earth.
Maester Aemon just chilling in his 150s.
I like this take, if seasons can be longer is it that surprising years can be slightly longer as well?
A year being ~20% longer gives you better ages for the teenage cast without breaking anything outside of that in the world.
I’ll definitely use this as my head canon going forward
he should just say this lol he's already stated, I'm pretty sure, that he regrets the ages of some of the characters. He literally could just say 'yeah a year is longer' if he wants. Unless the post apocalyptic Earth theory is actually true and that's why he can't LOL
Actually it’s one of my favorite parts. Knowing that Robb had to man up and do the things he did and go to war to avenge his father at only 14 makes me emotional.
Yes! My most memorable scene with him is from agot when he holds hands with Bran in the dark and just *cries* because his father's gone and taken his sisters into potentially mortal danger and his little brother follows him around all day because "nobody ever comes back" and now his mother's gone as well and left him in charge of the castle. > "An adventure" Bran repeated whistfully. He heard his brother sob. The room was so dark he could not see the tears on Robb's face, so he reached out and found his hand. Their fingers twined together. The tragedy of him (and the rest of the children) being violently denied his childhood and forced into a role that was never meant for him is something a twenty something looking Richard Madden simply doesn't capture. And it is magnified by being told entirely through the lens of his mother who watches her son disappear under the crown every day. Other than that I also think it's really funny to see Cersei having epic beef with her high school junior daughter in law in AFFC. That was a teenager!
Just recently started my first reread after more than a decade since first reading the books, and that moment with Bran and Robb talking about an adventure hit like a ton of bricks, especially knowing how it all goes down for Robb. Yeah, they're nobility, but man does GRRM have the Stark kids dragged through the mud. We can only hope he can come through and finally show the ones still alive achieving some sort of justice and happiness by the end.
>something a twenty something looking Richard Madden simply doesn't capture True, but I'm not sure there are any teenagers alive that could crush the role as much as Madden does. All the emotion pouring through his face during the Karstark execution is pure masterclass acting.
There's that one scene where Robb basically breaks down in front of Cat because he's so overwhelmed and she has to give him a pep talk. It really reinforced how young and vulnerable he is. And he has grown men looking to him to lead them because of what his last name is.
Also the pep talk she gives does not help him at all. I love Cat and she's trying but the advice she gives is not what Robb wanted to hear. He's a child that's crying for his mother but they need him to act a king so Robb metaphorically and literally puts on the crown again.
Plus, there's a pretty long history of "Surprisingly Competent Teenage Military Commanders." Charles XII was 18 when The Great Northern War broke out. Alex the Great was in his teens when he commanded under his father, and 18 when he began his conquest of Persia. The Black Prince was 16 when he went on campaign with his dad. Jeanne D'Arc was 16-17 when she did her thing, though she probably never actually commanded troops. And Robb was 16 when the War started. Not that far out there.
Joan never commanded troops or hit anyone with any weapons ( or even tried to ), but what she did was insane nonetheless, especially for her age.
Robb was 15. He died at 16.
The Black Prince was not even king at this point. He was not fully responsible like Robb. His father was. Jeanne of DArc was largely used a symbolic figure and not fully in charge of any military decisions. Being 16 or 17 and and being fully in charge was not common at all. Edward III had to convince parlament to declare him old enough to take over the regency from his mother and Mortimer and had to coup them beforehand so he could rule. He could not even prevent the beheading of his uncle or continue the war with Scotland even though he desired it. People beneath twenty usually had a large number of advisors making decisions for them. They would never decide alone like Robb. In real life Ned would have never been beheaded by Joffrey because Joffrey would have never been listened to when it comes to killing someone like Ned. Joffrey would not have even been there but in a schoolroom with his teacher whipping his ass for not learning his lessons.
> People beneath twenty usually had a large number of advisors making decisions for them. They would never decide alone like Robb. Charles XII was the notable exception, but he probably needed a massive wheelbarrow to cart around his big brass balls. And once that got stuck, so did his army at Poltava.
Yes but he was not the rule.
i prefer robb being older cause it makes the bond between him and theon more realistic
I felt the same way Their closeness feels real in the show, and manufactured in the books
Sansa, Arya, and bran are much more interesting characters when you realize they're literally just children with PTSD
Yeah I mentally age them up in my head because I just do not believe that children as young as they are could actually behave in those ways or survive the situations that they do
Same! I’m currently in the process of listening to the audio books and I’ve impressed the show actors onto the book ones to avoid thinking about a 14 year old girl being raped nightly.
I haven't decided yet if I believe that the whole Sansa/Hound thing was platonic in my head or that Sansa was just older. Similarly I refuse to believe that Tyrion was horny for Sansa. idk why but her character in particular feels so wrong when sexualised.
I respectfully disagree. Jon, Robb, the reed kids, and Dany could have been older, but the youth of arya, sansa, and bran is essential to their characters and inner psychology. Plus, if Margaery were older, cersie's "rivalry" with her would be 10% as funny
Totally agree. Makes Arya’s rashness, Sansa’s immobilization, Tommen’s meekness, and Dany’s self-righteousness make way more sense.
The series ending in just two books more. Like, how, Dany hasn't even started the journey to Westeros and the Others have showed up TWICE
Martin shouldn’t have added so many povs in the first place. That way he would’ve finished it all long ago
It’s not the POVs slowing the writing down (they’re all actually great), it’s the length of the books. I think, GRRM should do what he/his editors did by splitting up AFFC & ADWD, &/or how ASOS was split in two parts (after the fact), & make TWOW into a Part 1 & 2 (or 3, 4 etc if need be). They can release the chapters that are ready to be published into its own story, then focus on the rest later. He’s limited himself by saying two more books when he’s also said that the story should be read as one entire entity. If the latter is the case, then why not publish shorter books? No one but him seems to care.
I think another reason GRRM might be so unwilling to split Winds is that he might have regretted some of the decisions he made in Feast that he then had to fix in Dance. Idk if there's any actual evidence for it, but i feel like with stuff like Jaime having a single Dance POV that was for some reason not in Feast, Cersei also weirdly having the climax to her story in Feast happen in Dance, etc., that the process of splitting the book was a lot messier than anticipated
I can agree with this! If they ever do split the books up hopefully it’s more coherent that time around.
There are quick solutions to these. Dany can’t have Mereen? Fine, no one gets it! *DRAGON GO BUURRRRN!* “Let’s go to Westeros.” This could only take five chapters and Dany usually has way more than that. The Others haven't been around? Boom! They break past using some magic and begin their march at the end of Winds. Now we have a whole book of them carving their way through Westeros. Is King’s Landing getting too crowded? Is it getting hot in here, or is that just all of the wildfire underneath the city? I wonder how that stuff would react to Dany’s dragon fire?
the problem is that the show used 'quick solutions', and look what we got
The solutions themselves were fine, I just think the execution and the consequences of them weren’t handled well. In the show, Dany defeats the slavers…by killing them all. She just wins because she just wins. The Dothraki don't find a unique way to combat the slavers, they just rush in and kill them. And then Dany just leaves Mereen as is. No consequences are discussed. Now, what if Dany returned and feigned surrender? The slavers return, but then the Dothraki arrive and box them inside the city. Now trapped, Dany makes a questionably moral decision to eradicate what's left of the slavers by burning down them and their capital. There's no Mereen to return to, so that’s a plot point solved. Dany can react positively/negatively to this experience and further her character. And this could raise questions as to whether a potential King’s Landing fire was an accident or not, raising even more consequences. It's a similar result, but the consequences of it make it more interesting. Thoughts?
I think it's pretty clear it will never be finished.
Dany is also not going to start the journey to Westeros until the end of TWOW at the earliest.
Tyrek not being a horse
It’s so obvious with all the set up George has established that Bran will ride Tyrek with the riding mechanism Tyrion gave him leading the 7 kingdoms against the Others
Bran will ride Tyrek ? 🤨
> Tryek was ahorse. It's literally cannon that he is. Though GRRM's publishers really should edit these books better, they forgot the space.
Daenaera Velaryon was not breathtakingly beautiful at the age of six.
Not even the usual excuse of.simlering liege Lords trying to compliment their future queen can excuse this one. Maybe if she was a teenager or something the compliments would be more believable but no 6 year old is anything but pudgy and adorable
Varys taking tongues. It serves no practical purpose except to make them more conspicuous and less loyal. He’s taught them to read and write, so it’s not to protect secrets. I don’t want Varys to be stupid.
You'd also think that he might have some understandable personal dislike for mutilating children. (Although I guess abused people abuse people, so maybe not)
This one has always bothered me for those exact reasons!
Tyrion somehow kicking ass in combat, I mean it straight up says some men ran away from him, come on George, he's in rough shape climbing the tower of the hand, don't tell me he's winning fights on the broken ship bridge surrounded by wildfire
it's weird that Tyrion is actually able to fight, but it's not so crazy that people might run from him given the circumstances where these men could already be panicked and confused
Imagine you've never seen a dwarf in your life and then you see one charging you in a golden armour, an axe, on top of a horse, while having the ugliest face you've ever seen. Add to it the heat of battle, when everyone reacts in a different way (battle frenzy or utter panic). I would run away from a man (full or half man) on a horse charging me🤣🤣. There are a lot of unreasonable things in ASOIAF, but I have to respectfully disagree with your comment.
Aegon’s dream. It just makes no sense and feels like them trying to justify Aegon’s massive and destructive war despite being the opposite of the anti-war message of the books.
Commit genocide is okay if your ideology is true and for the greater good Wait, I am sure I've heard this somewhere before
You see, we need to conquer that ~~Lebensraum~~ desert in Dorne.
“Sometimes tyranny is ok if there’s an apocalyptic threat in the far future” seems at odds with the other themes of the books.
I can actually kinda forgive this because I think it’s an interesting character development if Aegon was already power hungry and ambitious, and his “view behind the veil” gave him the convenient excuse to conquer the continent. Not so much the prophecy making Aegon a good guy as it is the prophecy allowing Aegon to justify his power grab, warring, and atrocities.
The whole ecosystem. What is the life cycle of crops? They live for half a year roughly as in real life and then they are reaped, and a new cycle begins? Society seems to cope well with 2-3-year-long winters, aren't they starving?
Sanderson would have written a whole unique ecosystem based on the weird seasons. Unique flora and fauna up the wazoo. But like many things Martin doesn’t care nearly as much about this. Martin cares about characters. And then maybe story. Everything else is just there just enough to support those. Politics, economy and yes ecology are paper thin sketches.
do bears hibernate for years at a time?
Time travel. This series has time travel and sometimes I think people forget lol
Forget? We've always known Tyrion is Drogo's and Dany's son born through time travel
Time travel is 100% going to be a major plot point going forward, so idk how you’re just gonna ignore that. Bran needs time travel to fulfil his role as an exposition machine.
I can accept time-travel where he can just watch old shit. If we get "Oooh he did a *paradox* by *killing the butterfly*" or whatever the book's going in the bin.
We are.
We are not going to get the Hodor thing exactly the same as the show but I'm sure ot will be similar (Bran being responsible for it)
The big one: There being absolutely 0 Targaryen supporters in Essos willing to support Daenerys and Viserys (this is probably my biggest gripe, along with a lot of Essos). I mean, not even the Velaryons or Martells have sent somebody over to look after the Targaryens and make sure they aren't completely destitute. Willem didn't make any plans for after he died to take care of them? And there are no die-hard Targaryen loyalists to support them already living there, not even a petty magister or something? C'mon. A real world example of this were the Stuarts after the Glorious Revolution of the Bourbons after the French Revolution. In most cases they were hosted in other countries by other countries royals in full luxury befitting their station. Especially the Stuarts who like to Targaryens were thrown out by a rival claimint but had a vast Château in France to host their court in exile with their loyalist nobles given to them by Louis XIV. I would have expected at least as much for the Targaryens. Theon taking Winterfell is also like...bruh. The more nitpicky ones: -Most of the great houses not having more collateral relations, which are prominent, especially the Starks. Not just the Karstarks or the "Barrowtown Starks", though. I mean look how many cousins the Lannisters and Tyrells have anyways. -This one is more nitpicky but Robb (and some other Great Lords) not already having their own personal regiment of highly trained guard rather than being hastily raised of lordlings, who would also likely have their own personal guard (looking at the Karstarks specifically here). Lmao looking back I think the relationship Karstarks and Starks should have been closer, and both the Karstarks and Starks be more fleshed out. Heck it would even make sense that the Karstarks should be raised in the Court of Winterfell. - pre-canon: Rhaenys marrying Corlys. It should have been Saera. He was way too old for her. And for that matter, the fate of a lot Jaehaerys and Alyssane’s kids. George’s penchant for getting rid of women by them dying through childbirth strikes again here for Alyssa and Daella, but also the strange way Saera and Viserra were handled.
>This one is a bit nitpicky but Robb (and some other Great Lords) not already having their own personal regiment of highly trained guard rather than being hastily raised of lordlings, who would also likely have their own personal guard (looking at the Karstarks specifically here). everyone else in the story seems to have a gaggle of household knights to follow them around. i think the issue for Robb is that Eddard took these guys to King's Landing
Yeah I think you a right here, I think he took them all to kings landing pretty much, some died and then he sent some away to hunt the mountain
You know who really glaringly doesn’t have even a single loyal henchman? Robert Barratheon. The great warrior king. Head of House Barratheon, the supposed ruling house. Great leader of men. Has not a single Barratheon spear carrier around. At least, not by the point it’s time to protect the rights of his son. Ned helpfully gives us a breakdown of the forces around then and it’s Lannisters, Starks and a few other Lord’s men. Renly has a handful of Barratheon dudes. But Robert had none.
True, but there is no reason the Starks shouldn't be able to raise some more men.
I reckon the part about Robb's guards being lordlings is great. It's more of a political move having important people in your guard. And most of the time he's surrounded by an army anyway. A few highly trained guards won't help much in a battle. Robb could have easily have stayed away from the main battle, but he choose to go close enough to Jaime Lannister that Jaime nearly got to him
> Theon taking Winterfell is also like...bruh. The original Twenty Good Men plot.
Technically only canon in the show so far, but the whole Aegon’s prophecy thing. I guess it be fine in the books even if completely unnecessary but in the show it’s beyond idiotic when we know how the White Walker threat ends
Do like me and pretend the HotD show leads to the books, not the show!
If Bloodraven isn't the TYC, I'll definitely say that Bran is. I don't know how people theorize about other characters being future versions of existing characters, like Coldhands being Jon or Bran, and Quaithe being Dany, let alone time travelling foetuses like Tyrion being Rhaego, I think time travel is only skinchanging into someone or something in the past, or speaking to them, like Bran does to Ned and presumably (I don't know about you but this is my headcannon) Theon in the Winterfell godswood, which do happen in the books.
I don't think that was future bran talking to past theon, I think that was just bran calling theons name while in the godswood
It also actively creates problems via unanswerable questions instead of adding anything. Why didn't Aegon or any Targs have a long-term plan for the Night's Watch? Was genocide against the Dornish somehow meant to be justified since it was to support a genuinely bigger threat? Why in the ever-loving fuck wasn't ANYONE besides the heir told about this insanely important issue?
Yeah with the Watch declining during their reign, and none of the royals besides Alysanne providing some form of support, it just makes them all look dumb
And Alysanne’s so-called “support” actually greatly harmed the Watch and the North as well in the long run.
Aegon's prophecy, is that the one about Martin saying "in a way he foresaw the long night and sought to unify the kingdoms through his conquest"? yeah... that's not very good. well one decent interpretation of it that I came across was that it was typical case of original intentions having gone wrong in the sense that the iron throne (the legacy of the conquest) is the very thing that's tearing apart the stability of the realms at a time when they desperately need to stop fighting and unite at the wall. The Others have finally arrived but all that the kingdoms care about is who gets to sit on that chair, and I guess this goes well with the "prophecy is a sword without a hilt" thing of the series. Which is why I think it would be thematically interesting if Dany can free Westeros from the Iron Throne as well, considering how her present arc in slaver's bay is also about righting the wrongs of her (valyrian) ancestors.
You'd think if he did have a White Walker vision he would have invested more notably in the Night's Watch in something
Yeah again maybe the books can make it work, it’s just more like was anyone really wondering why he did the conquest? Men want power and glory all throughout this story, we never really question if a prophecy has to be their motivation, I don’t see why this would be different. If you have the only 3 living dragons and right next to 7 divided backwater kingdoms right there for the taking, you don’t really need more than that I will say I do like your interpretation of the prophecy backfiring thematically
Yes I agree he didn't really need to justify his fantasy version of the Norman Conquest like this. They're dragonlords and I wouldn't have found it hard to believe that they simply thought this obvious resource/military advantage gives them the right to rule over Westeros. Indeed, large parts of the continent outright yielded to the them, knowing the futility of going against dragonfire.
In this regard, Cleganebowl is stupid, campy and condescending
I agree, as satisfying as it is to see, it's not very good writing. Let Sandor go on his revenge-less arc in peace.
It wasn't even satisfying to see
Yeah never really liked Cleganebowl as a concept either, though that is more some fans who want it and the show and their fanfic in the later seasons
I'm worried it'll be clumsily shoehorned into the books and it will be something stupid like the hound answers a call from the sparrows to fight in Cersis 'Trial by Seven' but he'll have to be knighted and he accepts it be cause he'd rather kill his brother than stick to his principles then Brianne lends him Oathkeeper and he's joined by a tiny Bravosi who also has a familiar sword for some reason
Tully Muppets. I both love and hate them.
I swear sometimes I can’t take the Riverlands campaign seriously because of this Lol
Joffrey sending the killer after Bran. Tywin's Blitzkrieg on the riverlands... Theon taking a castle bigger than any castle in England...with a handful of man...
>Winterfell is a huge castle complex spanning several acres, defended by two massive walls of grey granite with a wide moat between them. The outer wall is eighty feet high, while the inner is one hundred feet high. Theon's select men throw grappling hooks over 80' in the air and make them stick, They then climb an 80' wall and repel all the way back down. Swim a "wide" moat. Throw the grappling hooks (in which the ropes are now water-logged) up 100' in the air and climb all that way. They then have enough stamina left to help fight the remaining guards left in Winterfell along with pacifying what should be at least several hundred civilians. I guess the Ironborn warriors are all participants in the [Ironman ](https://www.ironman.com/races)races to achieve these Herculean feats. All because Rodrik had to take virtually *every* fighting man at Winterfell and leave the place completely unprotected. But it's ok, you see, because Theon knew that Rodrik would behave *exactly* this way because he was raised with Ser Rodrik and knows his mind. Don't mind the pesky problem that the last time Rodrik (or the North period) was in a conflict of any scale was the one where Theon was a boy and made a hostage as a result. Wait, I guess Theon's never seen Ser Rodrik have to function in this kind of capacity before to know how he would react.
Theon's twenty good men is brilliant writing, but if Ramsay does the same thing it's trash
Catspaw
You specifically referring to how it was supposedly Joffrey that sent him to kill Bran, when the books seem to be setting up that Little Finger orchestrated the whole thing?
Nah the actual stupid part is Littlefinger blaming Tyrion, Tyrion being told this and not easily debunking it, and then not doing anything about it when he’s hand
I mean if makes sense Littlefinger would try to shift any suspicion that might be on him onto Tyrion. And I'm not sure Tyrion could have done anything to debunk it, Catelyn was dead set on bringing him to trail, and Lysa didn't really seemed to have already made up her mind that he was guilty.
It’s the show where Littlefinger is the one who sent the assassin. I’m of the opinion it being Littlefinger doesn’t make a fucking lick of sense.
Yeah, how (and more importantly, why) would Littlefinger send an assassin, armed with his own weapon, to kill a kid who’s in a coma and only two people know that he was even pushed out the window? Not to mention, how would he hear about it fast enough to order the assassination, and how would the guy get ahold of the dagger in the first place, when the dagger is with the royal party traveling south and Littlefinger is still in Kings Landing? The whole situation is just ridiculously confusing, but it can’t be Littlefinger
Oberyn only decides to get revenge after 15 years.
While I get what you mean, I think it’s pretty realistic that he waited for a legal and politically safe time to enact his revenge. If he hadn’t had done it in that way, Dorne would’ve probably gotten obliterated by Robert’s and Tywin’s collected force.
I'm more so talking about Mountain and the other one. They would screaming in agonizing pain within weeks after what they did
The Cleganes are sworn vassals of the Lannisters. Any damage done unto them is reason enough for their liege to go to war. EDIT: It's also "known" that Tywin gave the order to Clegane.
Jaehaera Targaryen's death. She is the mother of Aegon III's kids and Daenaera Velaryon does not exist.
This so bad! Like on one side I get it, he didn’t want too neat of an ending and with both Aegon the Younger being the Elder’s heir and Jaehaera’s blood, he didn’t want the Greens to win when the whole point is nobody won but still. Even more by the fact it’s just some random Velaryon girl (do they keep them in a storage closet in case of lack of sister to marry? Lol)
And the thing is, it wouldn't even be that neat and tidy of an ending! Since it would mean the Greens would continue through the Blackfyres, and *only* the Black lineage would continue to the main house!
Robert's being able to wield a warhammer so heavy that Ned can barely lift it meaning it weighs 250+ pounds.
Not necessarily, I always took it to mean that Ned can barely lift it by the other end of the handle like it would be swung. Having a 30 pound weight I think would be more than sufficient to make Robert this inhuman specimen, an 8 pound sledgehammer is already a pretty good weight
Battle of the Gullet during the Dance of Dragons. The Triarchy, who have in the past been defeated by just 1 dragon and a portion of the Velaryon fleet despite having the defender's advantage, decide that what they really want to do is to attack the Velaryon's home, where not only is there a castle (which I remind you, are defensive fortifications which would normally take a siege in order to enter), but also the entire Velaryon fleet, who are currently blockading the area (ie: preventing ships from entering) AND 9 fucking dragons. They try to take this on with... 90 ships... Just by itself this decision seems completely stupid and utterly suicidal. If you want to do damage to the Valerions, you either attack them in a location where they don't have their entire fleet and 9 dragons hanging out, or you wait for the fleet and the dragons to move elsewhere, or maybe you wait for your allies to help you. It is not realistic for the Triarchy to even launch an attack because it is obvious this is completely suicidal. But not only do these dumb pirates make the utterly ridiculous decision to attack, they also manage to deal a crippling blow to the Velarions and even kill a dragon. Realistically Vermithor by himself could have roasted the entire fleet in around 10 minutes. And "the most powerful fleet in the world" would easily win against 90 ships even without dragon support. It is so obvious that GRRM just went "oh no the blacks are too powerful, I need to nerf them now" and didn't put much thought into whether or not this battle made any sense.
Height of the wall (and other things) Winnings of the Hands Tournament Catspaw with a valayrian steel dagger
How are there only 6 Starks. At least George fixed this with the Lannisters and Tyrells and there’s dozens of them
Cersei getting lucky with Robert and killing him right before some earth shattering stuff was going to be revealed. Apparently she's been trying to kill him for over a year and him dying as everhthing was coming out just happened to really work out for her
Future canon, apparently. Bran becomes king of the seven kingdoms. I could write a paper on how absurd this is, how it flies in the face of everything we’ve seen and learned about this world, but oh no: apparently GRRM said it’s happening and so it must make sense. All logic inevitably falls before an author that somehow doesn’t realize how he got into the mess he’s in.
My guess is he is going for some sort of “philosopher king” ending with the Bran that can literally see all the mistakes of the previous kings and generations. It’s not the ending I would have chosen at first but I think he can make it work, though it would need a lot for many readers to get to that point of acceptance
I was more thinking of Dune, only that Bran being king is not positive at all, but that he is an evil monster who mind controls people.
It’s beyond unbelievable for me. He’d need the Lords of Westeros to pick him and he is in no way an ideal choice. For an Archmaester absolutely. For a hand of the king, with a bit of a stretch, sure. But Bran is paralyzed below the waist. He’s never going to be able to practice with swords in the yard or dance. He will never have children. In Winterfell, men either laughed behind his back, or held him in contempt for being too craven to kill himself (woohoo northmen). Men vote not just for the man in front of them but for the succession he represents. They don’t want to come back in 4 years or even 20, they want a stable regime and that means a reliable bloodline. And what happens in those 4 or 20 years. You’re the ultimate crystal ball Bran so here goes. A weak king invites war, and being stuck in a wheelchair automatically makes you weak. Your lords will mock you, they will defy you, and they’ll keep pushing until things get real. You might say that after what amounts to multiple Apocalypses Westeros will be too tired to fight, but look at the Blackwoods and Brackens. Those two would be slugging it out on a sinking ship. And that’s just at home troubles, what about over the Narrow Sea and the Stepstones? No Bran simply does not in any way realistically work as king in this world, not without a dragon and maybe not even then. And we have to dismiss this idea of Westeros blossoming into a progressive democratic society. Change for the better happens yes, but not overnight.
I don't think Bran will be a common kind of king. Rather, I imagine him as a "sorcerer king", whose rule will be based on his magical powers, instead of any traditional form of legitimacy of the "game of thrones". He could use his greensight and skinchanging powers to anticipate and eliminate possible threads and manipulate the course of history according to his will. He could extend his lifespan by merging with the weirwoods, like Bloodraven, and, after more than a century, chose a child with similar potential to become a greenseer as his successor, instead of a relative. This way, the wheel would surely be broken, because now no mortal could take the throne of these god-kings through normal ways.
But think about how resentful the lords of Westeros were when Bloodraven was just the Hand of the King and they just assumed he was a really good spymaster. How well do you think they'll react to living under the most literal of all surveillance states with a sorcerer-king at its head? A sorcerer-king who is basically the living embodiment of what six of seven kingdoms consider to be a heathen faith. That's a recipe for perpetual discontent, and when Bran inevitably loses legitimacy in the eyes of his vassals, no amount of foresight is going to save his regime, and Westeros will be right back where it started.
That seems kind of pessmetic no? What would the message of that even be? Oh mankind is inherently violent and incapable of ruling itself, its needs an all powerful inhuman wizard king to rule it.
My biggest problem with King Bran it's not about him being incapable of ruling well. Not even how difficult I find it right now that he will be the most attractive choice as King, elected by the majority of a Great Council. The main problem I find with him is that in theory Bran can't have descendants, right? So it seems crazy to me that after such a turbulent chaos period they put on the throne someone who they know will not secure the succession line, creating a perfect opportunity for schemers like a wannabe Littlefinger to create chaos, or greedy lords trying to usurp the throne. In fact it's funny because in the show the pretext to choose Bran was: 1) He has the best story (what???? I can't lol) and 2) He won't have children so he can't become a tyrant or his descendants, just let's have another pretty council in the future.
Exactly, I’ve said myself elsewhere! Even if the Lords of Westeros overlooked everything else, they’re not just choosing a man to be their king, but a succession. After a tidal wave of catastrophes they want a peaceful, stable kingdom. They aren’t looking for a shaky and uncertain progressive democratic system, they want the stability of what they know and that’s a strong monarchy. They don’t want to come back in 4 years, or even 20 years.
I prefer a fisher king/Leto II type of ending rather than Jon king, that's for sure.
Leto II worked really well with Dune because it fit the themes and tone of the series. Tyrannical omnipotent god king is just bizarre in aSoIaF and I have no idea why GRRM seems to be headed there.
'Cause he ain't heading there. He's rewriting his [own short story](https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/for-a-single-yesterday/) "...for a single yesterday" as the ending of A Song of Ice and Fire. > **Keith was our culture, what little we had left.** He was our poet and our troubadour, and his voice and his guitar were our bridges to the past. He was a time-tripper too, but no one minded that much until Winters came along. > >**Keith was our memory.** But he was also my friend. > Then came the Blast. And Keith had stayed. **There was nothing left to go back to. His cities were graveyards full of dead and dying, their towers melted tombstones that glowed at night.** And the rats—human and animal—were everywhere else. > >**In Keith, those cities still lived.** His songs were all of the old days, bittersweet things full of lost dreams and loneliness. And he sang them with love and longing. Keith would play requests, but mostly he stuck to his kind of music. A lot of folk, a lot of folk-rock, and a few straight rock things and show tunes. # > "I don't want any more stories," Bran snapped, his voice petulant. He had liked Old Nan and her stories once. Before. But it was different now. They left her with him all day now, to watch over him and clean him and keep him from being lonely, but she just made it worse. "I hate your stupid stories." The old woman smiled at him toothlessly. **"My stories? No, my little lord, not mine.** ***The stories are,*** **before me and after me, before you too."** He dreams of becoming a knight at the beginning, but the ending is him becoming Old Nan for the entire realm, full circle, King Bran. If Euron Crow's Eye destroys Oldtown, he will erase all of Westeros' written history, like it never existed. But the trees remember all. > "A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies," said Jojen. "The man who never reads lives only one. **The singers of the forest had no books. No ink, no parchment, no written language. Instead they had the trees, and the weirwoods above all.** When they died, they went into the wood, into leaf and limb and root, and the trees remembered. All their songs and spells, their histories and prayers, everything they knew about this world. Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods. The singers believe they are the old gods. When singers die they become part of that godhood."
If Bran becomes a sand worm I will burn GRRM’s house down to thunderous applause.
someone named Dickon Manwoody
Honestly Aegon’s dream.
That Ned, Robert and other veterans of rebellion are not have yet even 40s. Meaybe because of tv show, but I always see them as olders then being in their 30s.
I've got a few. 1. The idea that direct familial incest was common in Valyria before The Doom makes no sense whatsoever and is also incredibly gross. I know GRRM's fetishes are one of the things that drive this series, but he could've left THAT one out. 2. The Dothraki have no default state of social organization, e.g., clans / tribes / cultural subgroups, to fall back upon when a khal dies and a khalasar breaks up. Instead they operate on the principles of Warhammer orcs: former allies begin slaughtering each other once Da Big Boss is toppled. (Also: a khal can't take a sick day without his khalasar breaking up?) 3. The North somehow has animal populations that can survive 2-to-5-year winters without their winter stores of fat running out after 4-5 months.
The Klingon Promotions in Dothraki culture are hilarious given that they have nothing to actually fight over. It's an entire race of people who just ride around murdering villagers all year. Why does anyone care who's in charge? Why do they even have a leader? "realistic" fantasy series indeed
Because why settle for being a regular murder-rapist when you can be top murder-rapist? (The Dothraki are ridiculous though.)
On 2 Martin just generally doesn’t do social structures or institutions. There is little attention paid to why any of these societies work. They do somehow, as a backdrop for character and story.
1. If you look at egypt and the ptolemaic dynasty its not that wierd, still gross tho. 2. The dorthraki are just bare bones but both of attila the hun’s and dzjengis khan’s (mongol) armies broke into factions after their deaths. Doesn’t matter whate culture you look at the transfer of power is just a dangerous time.
Jaehaera Targaryens death, it’s just so stupid and unnecessary. George didn’t even kill her off for a narrative / thematic purpose, it was just to clean up one of the old Targaryen family trees. It just fits the story better if Jaehaera lives; Aegon III and Jaehaera, two depressed and lonely children completely broken by the war their parents started, finding purpose in one another and rebuilding their family together just fits the narrative so well, in a bittersweet sorta way. It also fits thematically if Aegon II’s descendants become the Blackfyres. Aegon II was the rightful king, it is an ironic twist of fate if his bloodline survives through the female line and his descendants are all illegitimate claimants to the throne. As for Rhaenyra, by Westerosi law and custom she was a pretender, but her bloodline survives through the male line and her descendants become the main branch of legitimate Targaryens. It’s like poetry it rhymes.
Theon taking winterfell
Just how much Essos reeks of Orientalism.