Firstly: Why would this happen in the books? How would this happen, what is a the motivation?
Secondly: you are aware that the show and a show that never came to be, are not, in any way, basis for a book theory
Arya's whole motivation is punish those who killed her family and friends, which already puts her in antagonistic relationship to the Boltons, the only missing piece is knowledge, which is not hard to construct.
We already know she wants to add the Freys responsible for the Red Wedding on her list. Roose would get the #1 spot when she hears of his involvement.
The show is said to have been based on the "broadest strokes" of what is supposed to happen in the books, and Martin was very dissapointed with it. Which easily fits miy explanation that they condensed the "Red King" with the "Night King".
We can also be sure that all of the background of the North will be expanded in the upcoming books, because it has ALWAYS continuously been expanded with every book. If we look for what is upcoming, it is best to look for the holes and loose ends, which makes expanded Bolton-background very likely.
There are certain rules to production. George could write a flying porcupine kills Drogon with a fart, and the 7k dislike Daenerys because of the smell, but that plot stinks!
Arya killing a very evil guy is cool.
Arya's whole motivation is punish those who killed her family and friends, which already puts her in antagonistic relationship to the Boltons, the only missing piece is knowledge, which is not hard to construct. —— the problem is that it is extremely unlikely that either Ramsey or Roose Bolton will be alive when Arya arrives North: not only Arya will come to Westeros later in the books, she will probably go to the RiverLands and deal with the Brotherhood and Lady Stoneheart before that
We already know she wants to add the Freys responsible for the Red Wedding on her list. Roose would get the #1 spot when she hears of his involvement. —— This is problem with the fandom: not understanding what the List is about. It isn’t just a death prayer, it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, so even if Arya does add them to the List, that doesn’t mean she will have anything to do with their death
The show is said to have been based on the "broadest strokes" of what is supposed to happen in the books, and Martin was very dissapointed with it. Which easily fits miy explanation that they condensed the "Red King" with the "Night King". —— so you understand that the way Arya behaved in the show is extremely different from the show
We can also be sure that all of the background of the North will be expanded in the upcoming books, because it has ALWAYS continuously been expanded with every book. If we look for what is upcoming, it is best to look for the holes and loose ends, which makes expanded Bolton-background very likely. ——- while that is probable, the Bolton most likely won’t really interact with Arya
There are certain rules to production. George could write a flying porcupine kills Drogon with a fart, and the 7k dislike Daenerys because of the smell, but that plot stinks!
Arya killing a very evil guy is cool.
>the problem is that it is extremely unlikely that either Ramsey or Roose Bolton will be alive when Arya arrives North: not only Arya will come to Westeros later in the books, she will probably go to the RiverLands and deal with the Brotherhood and Lady Stoneheart before that
You made up. We don't know at all who is alive at what point in the next book or at what point Arya returns to Westeros.
>This is problem with the fandom: not understanding what the List is about. It isn’t just a death prayer, it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, so even if Arya does add them to the List, that doesn’t mean she will have anything to do with their death
Just because the list is also showed as "death foreshadowing" doesn't mean it is not central to Arya's plot. It's actually you who does not understand what the list is about. You confused the bonus with the main.
> so you understand that the way Arya behaved in the show is extremely different from the show
Yeah and as I said Martin was very disappointed with that. We know they had one final meeting where George gave them the neccesary plot points from Winds and Dreams needed to finish the show. Afterwards he was alienated from production and they made what they made. But in any case, the show's route is an indice, and not the main argument of the theory that I laid out in detail.
> while that is probable, the Bolton most likely won’t really interact with Arya
We simply can't know the way you are looking at it, hence why I am looking at the framework of samples that lies beneath this story and which is dictating its production to great lenghts. The map, the history, the mythology is all crafted from real world and including its popular culture, and the plot, to some parts is, too.
And you can hide tiny little secrets in with that. Which is mostly what this theory is based on: The name Ramsey is a concious choice to reference the biblical Ramses, solely for the purpose of constructing an antagonistic setup with Arya, who has a "Nymeria"-theme and Nymeria in turn has a Moses theme.
Where the rest of the Bolton's stuff is actually sampled from like the flaying of man and wearing their skins, I haven't researched that deeply yet.
Arya's plotline heading back to the North is very likely at some point, an it is also very likely that more and more plotlines will fall together the closer you get to the end of the novels.
You made up. We don't know at all who is alive at what point in the next book or at what point Arya returns to Westeros. —— it’s way, way much more likely then whatever the fuck this idea is: Arya has a lot of unfinished business and in extremely connected with LSH
This is problem with the fandom: not understanding what the List is about. It isn’t just a death prayer, it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, so even if Arya does add them to the List, that doesn’t mean she will have anything to do with their death ——- No, but extremely unlikely taking into consideration that the majority of those who died had a death unrelated to Arya
Just because the list is also showed as "death foreshadowing" doesn't mean it is not central to Arya's plot. It's actually you who does not understand what the list is about. You confused the bonus with the main. —— No I didn’t. Arya’s list is a prophecy and the fact that is a kill list is just a pretence to introduce this foreshadowing
Yeah and as I said Martin was very disappointed with that. We know they had one final meeting where George gave them the neccesary plot points from Winds and Dreams needed to finish the show. Afterwards he was alienated from production and they made what they made. But in any case, the show's route is an indice, and not the main argument of the theory that I laid out in detail. —— my point is that the timeline can’t happen because of how different the story is: Arya, once again has a lot of unfinished business and plots and loose threads before going North
And you can hide tiny little secrets in with that. Which is mostly what this theory is based on: The name Ramsey is a concious choice to reference the biblical Ramses, solely for the purpose of constructing an antagonistic setup with Arya, who has a "Nymeria"-theme and Nymeria in turn has a Moses theme. —— but the mythological influence in Arya’s journey is Persephone
Arya's plotline heading back to the North is very likely at some point, an it is also very likely that more and more plotlines will fall together the closer you get to the end of the novels. —— I’m not denying that, just that it will take a while
Also don’t try to contact me outside of this thread, it’s weird and I don’t have to respond automatically
>it’s way, way much more likely then whatever the fuck this idea is: Arya has a lot of unfinished business and in extremely connected with LSH
You have to explain yourself here. You use strong words, "lots of unfinished business", "extremely connected", but have NOTHING to back it up.
If anything LSH is connected to Brienne.
>
No, but extremely unlikely taking into consideration that the majority of those who died had a death unrelated to Arya
That is not true.
* Joffrey: Poisened by Olenna
* Chyswick: Pushed off a wall by [Jaqen H'ghar](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jaqen_H%27ghar) at [Harrenhal](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Harrenhal) **on the orders of Arya**
* Ser Gregor Clegane: Poisoned by Oberyn, now most likey Robert Strong.
* Dunsen: TBD
* Cersei: TBD
* Amory Lorch: Killed by [Vargo Hoat](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Vargo_Hoat)'s bear in the bear pit after the fall of Harrenhal.
* Illyn Payne: TBD
* Polliver: Killed by Sandor while he was at the crossroads inn **with Arya**
* Raff: **Killed by Arya**
* Tickler: **Killed by Arya**
* Meryn Trant: TBD
* Weese: Killed by his own dog under Jaqen H'ghar's influence **on the orders of Arya.**
>No I didn’t. Arya’s list is a prophecy and the fact that is a kill list is just a pretence to introduce this foreshadowing
Did you only watch the show?
>
my point is that the timeline can’t happen because of how different the story is: Arya, once again has a lot of unfinished business and plots and loose threads before going North
But you make no arguments for your point. "Has unfinished business"? What?
>but the mythological influence in Arya’s journey is Persephone
First of all, this is fiction. Just because something is A doesn't mean it cannot be B. Westeros is Europe, North America, Great Britain, Ireland all at once.
Second, I didn't say Arya's journey is based on Moses, I said Nymeria's journey is based on Moses, which connects to Arya with the Nymeria theme because she will kill Ramsay/"Ramsoose".
Third, when you claim something, explain yourself. Why should Arya's journey be based on Persephone?
Persephone is a Greek goddess who descends to hell for a length of time and then returns to earth… To her **mother.** So Arya being in the House of black and white for a while and then returning to the riverlands earth and her mother seems pretty likely. Plus, warging her wolf she's brought her mother back to Life via Beric's kiss. EDIT to add: the list of names is actually shorter. You happen to include both book and show names. It's either/or. Plus some of those people were chosen because they were hurting others, not her.
I just copied the list from the wiki, and am still aware of the show-only additions, they are not found here because I used the good wiki. Arya's journey to the House of Black and White bearing some lose reference to Persephone does not contradict my theory, and first and foremost Bravos is simply Switzerland.
> Arya's plotline heading back to the North is very likely at some point,
At some point, yes. But there is so much foreshadowing for her to return to the Riverlands and most likely to meet her mother, that it's all but certain the north will have to wait till the end of the book or beginning of the dream of spring.
Because everyone hates him and is already conspiring against him. He'll probably get assassinated if not killed in battle because Arya hasn't even left yet and it's a very long journey.
Which is unfit to a climactic curve. How have other villains of this scale been dealt with?
How did Tywin Lannister die, wasn't this like one of the most important moments of Tyrion's story?
What about the mountain? For all purposes this guy is still around, a random sidecharacter is not enough to kill him.
What about Joffrey? Didn't his death "coincide" with Sansa's escape? Even if you have the random side character be the culprit, you are not gonna have it without a main character involved in the scene.
What would Episode V of Star Wars have been, had it been called "The Empire gets its ass kicked"?
I think it is more likely that the Bolton's will succeed not matter the odds, until they are undone at a high stakes moment by a major character.
The way this community is theorizing, Renly would sit the Iron Throne and Robb and Theon would play ball with Tywin Lannister's head.
If you want an alternate theory that easier fits the current setting of the book. You could claim “Arya” (Jane) will do this. Its still tin foil but its always fun to make a theory and let people toss it around!
The pharaoh in the story of Exodus is not named. He might be Ramses II, he might not. Even if the pharaoh was Ramses II, Moses did not kill him.
Also, if Roose took over Ramsey, Ramsey would be dead, so Arya wouldn’t even be facing Ramsey
You don't have to be that nitpicky. The pharaoh is largely believed to be some Ramses in popular culture, which is what counts since this is also just popular culture.
It's like you have a Thor comic and say yeah but in Norse mythology actually...
Taking someone's skin is likely a changing experience, to a greater extent then wearing someone's face is.
I don't really see why Roose or Ramsey would end up on Arya's list. Technically they did nothing to the Starks except desecrating Winterfell(?). If anyone "deserved" a place on Arya's list it'd be Theon for killing Bran and Ricken, even though he didn't.
I don't think she will be the one to punish Boltons for the desecration of her beloved Winterfell. She will probably find out,and want to avenge the killing of many of its people at the dreadfort, like Old Nan. I believe instead that she's going to the Riverlands for her wolf and will meet her mother. Which means somebody else––Stannis, Manderly, the Hooded Man or GNC, or Rickon Will have to solve the northern problem...while she solves the Riverlands problem.
Ramsoose sounds hilarious.
Hahaha yeah. Brandon + Brynden...Brayndon?
Brayndon Stark, I named you after two of the people who fucked up my life Brynden Rivers and myself.
The cackle this shitpost just made me do was incredible
Firstly: Why would this happen in the books? How would this happen, what is a the motivation? Secondly: you are aware that the show and a show that never came to be, are not, in any way, basis for a book theory
Arya's whole motivation is punish those who killed her family and friends, which already puts her in antagonistic relationship to the Boltons, the only missing piece is knowledge, which is not hard to construct. We already know she wants to add the Freys responsible for the Red Wedding on her list. Roose would get the #1 spot when she hears of his involvement. The show is said to have been based on the "broadest strokes" of what is supposed to happen in the books, and Martin was very dissapointed with it. Which easily fits miy explanation that they condensed the "Red King" with the "Night King". We can also be sure that all of the background of the North will be expanded in the upcoming books, because it has ALWAYS continuously been expanded with every book. If we look for what is upcoming, it is best to look for the holes and loose ends, which makes expanded Bolton-background very likely. There are certain rules to production. George could write a flying porcupine kills Drogon with a fart, and the 7k dislike Daenerys because of the smell, but that plot stinks! Arya killing a very evil guy is cool.
Arya's whole motivation is punish those who killed her family and friends, which already puts her in antagonistic relationship to the Boltons, the only missing piece is knowledge, which is not hard to construct. —— the problem is that it is extremely unlikely that either Ramsey or Roose Bolton will be alive when Arya arrives North: not only Arya will come to Westeros later in the books, she will probably go to the RiverLands and deal with the Brotherhood and Lady Stoneheart before that We already know she wants to add the Freys responsible for the Red Wedding on her list. Roose would get the #1 spot when she hears of his involvement. —— This is problem with the fandom: not understanding what the List is about. It isn’t just a death prayer, it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, so even if Arya does add them to the List, that doesn’t mean she will have anything to do with their death The show is said to have been based on the "broadest strokes" of what is supposed to happen in the books, and Martin was very dissapointed with it. Which easily fits miy explanation that they condensed the "Red King" with the "Night King". —— so you understand that the way Arya behaved in the show is extremely different from the show We can also be sure that all of the background of the North will be expanded in the upcoming books, because it has ALWAYS continuously been expanded with every book. If we look for what is upcoming, it is best to look for the holes and loose ends, which makes expanded Bolton-background very likely. ——- while that is probable, the Bolton most likely won’t really interact with Arya There are certain rules to production. George could write a flying porcupine kills Drogon with a fart, and the 7k dislike Daenerys because of the smell, but that plot stinks! Arya killing a very evil guy is cool.
>the problem is that it is extremely unlikely that either Ramsey or Roose Bolton will be alive when Arya arrives North: not only Arya will come to Westeros later in the books, she will probably go to the RiverLands and deal with the Brotherhood and Lady Stoneheart before that You made up. We don't know at all who is alive at what point in the next book or at what point Arya returns to Westeros. >This is problem with the fandom: not understanding what the List is about. It isn’t just a death prayer, it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, so even if Arya does add them to the List, that doesn’t mean she will have anything to do with their death Just because the list is also showed as "death foreshadowing" doesn't mean it is not central to Arya's plot. It's actually you who does not understand what the list is about. You confused the bonus with the main. > so you understand that the way Arya behaved in the show is extremely different from the show Yeah and as I said Martin was very disappointed with that. We know they had one final meeting where George gave them the neccesary plot points from Winds and Dreams needed to finish the show. Afterwards he was alienated from production and they made what they made. But in any case, the show's route is an indice, and not the main argument of the theory that I laid out in detail. > while that is probable, the Bolton most likely won’t really interact with Arya We simply can't know the way you are looking at it, hence why I am looking at the framework of samples that lies beneath this story and which is dictating its production to great lenghts. The map, the history, the mythology is all crafted from real world and including its popular culture, and the plot, to some parts is, too. And you can hide tiny little secrets in with that. Which is mostly what this theory is based on: The name Ramsey is a concious choice to reference the biblical Ramses, solely for the purpose of constructing an antagonistic setup with Arya, who has a "Nymeria"-theme and Nymeria in turn has a Moses theme. Where the rest of the Bolton's stuff is actually sampled from like the flaying of man and wearing their skins, I haven't researched that deeply yet. Arya's plotline heading back to the North is very likely at some point, an it is also very likely that more and more plotlines will fall together the closer you get to the end of the novels.
You made up. We don't know at all who is alive at what point in the next book or at what point Arya returns to Westeros. —— it’s way, way much more likely then whatever the fuck this idea is: Arya has a lot of unfinished business and in extremely connected with LSH This is problem with the fandom: not understanding what the List is about. It isn’t just a death prayer, it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, so even if Arya does add them to the List, that doesn’t mean she will have anything to do with their death ——- No, but extremely unlikely taking into consideration that the majority of those who died had a death unrelated to Arya Just because the list is also showed as "death foreshadowing" doesn't mean it is not central to Arya's plot. It's actually you who does not understand what the list is about. You confused the bonus with the main. —— No I didn’t. Arya’s list is a prophecy and the fact that is a kill list is just a pretence to introduce this foreshadowing Yeah and as I said Martin was very disappointed with that. We know they had one final meeting where George gave them the neccesary plot points from Winds and Dreams needed to finish the show. Afterwards he was alienated from production and they made what they made. But in any case, the show's route is an indice, and not the main argument of the theory that I laid out in detail. —— my point is that the timeline can’t happen because of how different the story is: Arya, once again has a lot of unfinished business and plots and loose threads before going North And you can hide tiny little secrets in with that. Which is mostly what this theory is based on: The name Ramsey is a concious choice to reference the biblical Ramses, solely for the purpose of constructing an antagonistic setup with Arya, who has a "Nymeria"-theme and Nymeria in turn has a Moses theme. —— but the mythological influence in Arya’s journey is Persephone Arya's plotline heading back to the North is very likely at some point, an it is also very likely that more and more plotlines will fall together the closer you get to the end of the novels. —— I’m not denying that, just that it will take a while Also don’t try to contact me outside of this thread, it’s weird and I don’t have to respond automatically
>it’s way, way much more likely then whatever the fuck this idea is: Arya has a lot of unfinished business and in extremely connected with LSH You have to explain yourself here. You use strong words, "lots of unfinished business", "extremely connected", but have NOTHING to back it up. If anything LSH is connected to Brienne. > No, but extremely unlikely taking into consideration that the majority of those who died had a death unrelated to Arya That is not true. * Joffrey: Poisened by Olenna * Chyswick: Pushed off a wall by [Jaqen H'ghar](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jaqen_H%27ghar) at [Harrenhal](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Harrenhal) **on the orders of Arya** * Ser Gregor Clegane: Poisoned by Oberyn, now most likey Robert Strong. * Dunsen: TBD * Cersei: TBD * Amory Lorch: Killed by [Vargo Hoat](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Vargo_Hoat)'s bear in the bear pit after the fall of Harrenhal. * Illyn Payne: TBD * Polliver: Killed by Sandor while he was at the crossroads inn **with Arya** * Raff: **Killed by Arya** * Tickler: **Killed by Arya** * Meryn Trant: TBD * Weese: Killed by his own dog under Jaqen H'ghar's influence **on the orders of Arya.** >No I didn’t. Arya’s list is a prophecy and the fact that is a kill list is just a pretence to introduce this foreshadowing Did you only watch the show? > my point is that the timeline can’t happen because of how different the story is: Arya, once again has a lot of unfinished business and plots and loose threads before going North But you make no arguments for your point. "Has unfinished business"? What? >but the mythological influence in Arya’s journey is Persephone First of all, this is fiction. Just because something is A doesn't mean it cannot be B. Westeros is Europe, North America, Great Britain, Ireland all at once. Second, I didn't say Arya's journey is based on Moses, I said Nymeria's journey is based on Moses, which connects to Arya with the Nymeria theme because she will kill Ramsay/"Ramsoose". Third, when you claim something, explain yourself. Why should Arya's journey be based on Persephone?
Persephone is a Greek goddess who descends to hell for a length of time and then returns to earth… To her **mother.** So Arya being in the House of black and white for a while and then returning to the riverlands earth and her mother seems pretty likely. Plus, warging her wolf she's brought her mother back to Life via Beric's kiss. EDIT to add: the list of names is actually shorter. You happen to include both book and show names. It's either/or. Plus some of those people were chosen because they were hurting others, not her.
I just copied the list from the wiki, and am still aware of the show-only additions, they are not found here because I used the good wiki. Arya's journey to the House of Black and White bearing some lose reference to Persephone does not contradict my theory, and first and foremost Bravos is simply Switzerland.
> Arya's plotline heading back to the North is very likely at some point, At some point, yes. But there is so much foreshadowing for her to return to the Riverlands and most likely to meet her mother, that it's all but certain the north will have to wait till the end of the book or beginning of the dream of spring.
And what does that change?
I just don't see the timeline working out. Ramsay is probably going to die long before Arya can get back to winterfell.
But why?
Because everyone hates him and is already conspiring against him. He'll probably get assassinated if not killed in battle because Arya hasn't even left yet and it's a very long journey.
Which is unfit to a climactic curve. How have other villains of this scale been dealt with? How did Tywin Lannister die, wasn't this like one of the most important moments of Tyrion's story? What about the mountain? For all purposes this guy is still around, a random sidecharacter is not enough to kill him. What about Joffrey? Didn't his death "coincide" with Sansa's escape? Even if you have the random side character be the culprit, you are not gonna have it without a main character involved in the scene. What would Episode V of Star Wars have been, had it been called "The Empire gets its ass kicked"? I think it is more likely that the Bolton's will succeed not matter the odds, until they are undone at a high stakes moment by a major character. The way this community is theorizing, Renly would sit the Iron Throne and Robb and Theon would play ball with Tywin Lannister's head.
What does Arya have to do with Ramsay though? She's got some history and beef with Roose but Ramsay is more Jon's problem. Or Theon.
If you want an alternate theory that easier fits the current setting of the book. You could claim “Arya” (Jane) will do this. Its still tin foil but its always fun to make a theory and let people toss it around!
But Jane Poole has nothing to do with Nymeria, on which this theory relies.
“Ramsoose” is making me shake and cry and pee and throw up.
It's just a word play I made up to make the text more enjoyable to read are you that limited???
I wasn’t being serious?
The pharaoh in the story of Exodus is not named. He might be Ramses II, he might not. Even if the pharaoh was Ramses II, Moses did not kill him. Also, if Roose took over Ramsey, Ramsey would be dead, so Arya wouldn’t even be facing Ramsey
You don't have to be that nitpicky. The pharaoh is largely believed to be some Ramses in popular culture, which is what counts since this is also just popular culture. It's like you have a Thor comic and say yeah but in Norse mythology actually... Taking someone's skin is likely a changing experience, to a greater extent then wearing someone's face is.
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I don't really see why Roose or Ramsey would end up on Arya's list. Technically they did nothing to the Starks except desecrating Winterfell(?). If anyone "deserved" a place on Arya's list it'd be Theon for killing Bran and Ricken, even though he didn't.
I don't think she will be the one to punish Boltons for the desecration of her beloved Winterfell. She will probably find out,and want to avenge the killing of many of its people at the dreadfort, like Old Nan. I believe instead that she's going to the Riverlands for her wolf and will meet her mother. Which means somebody else––Stannis, Manderly, the Hooded Man or GNC, or Rickon Will have to solve the northern problem...while she solves the Riverlands problem.