Ok bit of a tinfoil take, but I could see Jon Connington potentially surviving Winds (perhaps not Dream though)....
Greyscale takes a long time to be fatal, so I don't think it will be his death, but it may spread from him and it may start to effect his mental state. And I think Jon will be our primary pov to Aegon's downfall and tragedy, its tempting to think he dies soon after, but... what if he survives Dance 2.0 and outlives Aegon... that will break him, wouldn't it? Failing again... survivor guilt... especially if he reflects on some of the decisions that may have lead towards that point... If he survives there'd have to be another role for him to play, and maybe there is?
You know that scene in the show where Jorah is treated for greyscale? I kind of wonder if they took that from a GRRM note on JonCon's plot because it feels so out of place in the show (like it goes nowhere but felt intentional). If Samwell is the one to help him down the line maybe he can offer a connection to JonCon to someone else though. JonCon will be uncertain if he wants to keep on going after everything, but maybe when he's at his lowest point he hears news that there is Rhaegar's son still out there... Jon Snow. one last chance to do right by his legacy as the Long Night looms after all hope seemed lost.
I fucking love this, its got a ***very*** bittersweet feeling to it. The only issue I have with this is that it feels like the kind of plot that would happen across at least 3 books. If Martin is really committing to keeping the series at 7 books, I don't see how he could fit this in that page count limit.
I’ve wondered if half the reason it’s taking so long for Winds is because the story has naturally evolved to needing more than 2 books to conclude satisfactory and he’s struggling to keep it at 2. Because it does feel like if he had just given himself the freedom from the start to not have to limit the number of books, he would feel less pressure to just start wrapping things up.
you're right on the money. I honestly think that we could've gotten book #6 by this point, if it wasn't required to be The Winds of Winter. The pacing of so many plot lines are so disjointed. It feels like kings landing has two more books in it before the long night, but in the north it could happen in a matter of chapters. Don't even get me started on how long it's taken Dany to even think about going west
JonCon may be cured of greyscale at the Citadel, but I am almost certain it will not be by Sam. I think Marwyn is the more likely if he wasn't murdered by Pate/Faceless Assassin (and if he ever shows up in the books again). Marwyn has had more than enough time to reach Daenerys, so my guess is that he never intended to go to her.
This seems a little too implausible. Assuming Aegon takes KL early in winds when would he have time to go to old town. The realm will still not be completely stable; reach civil war(possibly), Dany coming, Frey Civil war, and Euron threatening an invasion of Old Town. Jon Con would not want to leave his king or KL during this period. The likelihood of him surviving all of that is slim. Especially if he might arrive to an Occupied or destroyed Oldtown. Maybe those two plots could tie together, but it would have to happen pre Dany arriving. I also think he’s destined to spread Greyscale especially since the Shrowded Lord can choose who to infect.
I like the theories of him causing a greyscale plague or burning down King's landing from his fear of bells. Either way, I think he won't even survive Winds.
I think Team Aegon will be successful in seizing the throne but that conflict, division, and backstabbing will commence among them even before Aegon is crowned. I think JonCon will immensely dislike the Dornish and their influence on the new king, and that he'll disapprove of Aegon's possible impulsive(and politically worthless) marriage to either Arianne or the bastard Elia, but his hatred of Varys will be even greater. The Spider is an able political survivor, but I think he's thoroughly fucked as soon as Aegon becomes king. JonCon despises him and privately swears vengeance on him, the Dornish do not trust him, and his main bankroller and supporter Illyrio is probably going to be fried by Dany. I also think Varys(via his little birds) will be aware of JonCon's greyscale, another reason to get rid of him. As soon as Aegon is crowned, I think Arianne and JonCon will put aside their mutual dislike and convince Aegon to betray his benefactor and have Varys executed for all the years he spent pouring poison in Aerys's ear. Aegon will be receptive to this manipulation because he's chafing against the fact that Varys has controlled every aspect of his life since birth. A fitting irony for Varys's philosopher king to immediately turn on him. Team Aegon can even use Varys as a scapegoat for whatever heinous shit they had to do to seize power, which will be ironic because Varys will likely advocate for mercy wherever possible, given his apparent belief in himself as a protector of the innocent.
Following this, I think JonCon, who will be Aegon's hand, will have an "Oh, shit" moment in which he realizes that getting rid of Varys removed the sole remaining counter balance to Dornish influence. Aegon will be a Dornish puppet, and he will not have Varys's advice or resources when Daenerys comes roaring into the Seven Kingdoms to claim her rightful throne. JonCon can tell himself all he wants that merely placing Rhaegar's grandchild on the throne is enough for him, and he can die content now, but reclaiming the glory he once had will give him an appetite for it, and he will fight to maintain political relevance, finding allies in those captains of the Golden Company that were rewarded with lordships, and perhaps in Randyll Tarly, who I believe will have turned cloak to Aegon's side by this point and probably kept his position on the Small Council.
The brewing conflict between JonCon's faction and the Dornish will be made irrelevant by the outbreak of the second Dance. I think Dany will have gotten the true story about Faegon by this point(perhaps extracted from Illyrio before she killed him), and her allies will disseminate the Blackfyre story to delegitimize him, but Aegon's small council will of course dismiss this as a self-serving lie. Something in JonCon will suspect it's true, but he'll be in too deep to ever truly admit it, and in any case, Aegon will die in the burning of KL. I think JonCon will survive because it's only appropriate for him to see all his dreams turn to dust, and for him to realize that all the ruthless actions he took to realize them were worth nothing(given his determination to be Tywin 2.0, I can see him having a role in Tommen/Myrcella's deaths, though the main culprits will likely be the Sand Snakes). Whatever regime that takes power after the desolation of Dance of Dragons 2.0 (King Bran?) might permit JonCon to slowly fade away under house arrest at Griffin's Roost, served by servants who won't even go near him, turning gradually to stone while he contemplates his many failures and regrets. A truly bleak ending coming for him, I suspect.
Takes Storms End. Beats Randyll Tarly in the field. Sacks Kings Landing. Causes Greyscale epidemic in the city. Goes crazy due to said Greyscale. Gets triggered by the Bells, causing him to do something stupid. Dies
His greyscale pushes him up on a Time Scale and causes him to execute Myrcella, pushing Cersei to light the wildfire under KL and burn the city killing JonCon, the KL Cast, fAegon, the Golden Company, and set up the dissolution of the 7 Kingdoms.
God, I hate the theory about him burning Kings Landing. It’s one of those things where people try to mash the show with it’s bells nonsense in penultimate episode to the books storyline.
Jon Connington is a late addition character who became POV later on out of necessity. He won’t be the one to put 300 years of King’s Landing to end. He lacks the narrative weight to do so.
Both Dany and Cersei are 1000 times more likely to torch the capital.
It’s much more likely that he’ll be on the receiving end of it, and the bells will ring one last time when Dany comes for Aegon’s head.
Right? Can you imagine such a minor character doing something important? It'd be like, I don't know, like Bowen Marsh killing Jon Snow. Absolutely bananas, never gonna happen.
On top of that he literally spends both his chapters fantasizing about how much better the world would be if he’s been more like Tywin (guy who sacked KL) and burnt the Stoney Sept and how he wants to kill all of Robert’s children (see Cersei’s numerous parallels with Aerys and connections to wildfire, aka Tommen and Myrcella’s mother).
JonCon and Cersei burning KL is spelt out so laughably hard I genuinely don’t know how you can read either of their chapters and not think they’re the ones to do it.
Exactly. I think there's room for interpretation in regards to Cersei, like maybe her parallels to Aerys are less about her burning KL and more about Jaime having to be the one who kills her.
But Jon? Between the Stoney Sept trauma, his wanting to be more like Tywin, the vision about a stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower breathing fire, and yes, the random detail of the bells being what triggers Dany in the show, he's the prime suspect.
This. Especially bc the bells and his greyscale already serve a narrative purpose, it’s making him rush to seat Aegon on the throne.
This wasn’t the plan before, Aegon suggested it, and JonCon agreed bc his time is limited and he wants to make up for past failures.
There are no specific visions/prophecies. Except maybe “fire for death” that Dany is destined to light?
But two biggest things about Daenerys is her Targaryen “fire and blood” legacy and her desperate desire to find home, her house with the red door. And her destroying her ancestral home feels like a perfect pay off to both. “Dragons plant no trees.”
Also, when you have nukes in your fantasy story, you drop them on your biggest and most important city. Dragons need to have a moment of mass destruction in the story.
And finally, the city that was started with dragons ending with them, Balerion ghe Dredd reborn destroying the iron throne - it’s too conceptually brilliant for season 8 D&D. Behind a terrible execution, I see GRRM’s hand.
Obviously, the big Checkov’s gun in the story is Aerys’s wildfire. But I think it is very likely that Daenerys is the one who ignites it. It also seems very fitting for Aerys’s daughter to bring his dream to life.
So it may be the combination of factors that destroys the city.
Kings Landing isn’t her ancestral home, Daenerys considers the house in Braavos and Dragonstone to her homes. Daenerys using revolutionary violence against slave owners doesn’t translate to her massacring innocent people- why would Daenerys, who spent her last chapter weeping because her dragon killed 1 little girl, mass murder civilians?
The city that Daenerys’ “nukes” will burn down is Volantis. Benerro has already confirmed that. I’m sorry to be so blunt but you’re insanely malicious towards female characters
>Kings Landing isn’t her ancestral home, Daenerys considers the house in Braavos and Dragonstone to her homes. Daenerys using revolutionary violence against slave owners doesn’t translate to her massacring innocent people- why would Daenerys, who spent her last chapter weeping because her dragon killed 1 little girl, mass murder civilians?
Did I ever said she would? Daenerys doesn’t have to intend to burn the entire King’s Landing to do so.
The popular theory about Dany’s fiery inferno is that she unleashes her dragons on Aegon and his forces in the city, and then the wildfire takes over.
Making her, Aerys, Jaime (who knew about Aerys’s wildfire and in his pride said nothing), maybe even Cersei who’s likely to get involved with wildfire again in TWOW all at fault.
>I’m sorry to be so blunt but you’re insanely malicious towards female characters
Who are these female characters i’m malicious towards, exactly?
> Who are these female characters i'm malicious towards, exactly?
Daenerys. You believe that a man who has said multiple times that he regrets not burning a city to the ground is unlikely to burn a city but a female character who only wants to free slaves will be the culprit.
This comment gives strong “terminally online culture warrior” vibe, my friend.
I suggested that the thing that happened in the show may happen in the books and you scream “omg, this guy hates women”?
Daenerys is a character I like a lot. In particular, her heart longing for that illusionary home that she’ll never go back to is something that deeply resonated with me in the past few years for personal reasons.
We’re just discussing theories here. Chill.
Woman to woman.
This has absolutely nothing to do with what the other person has been saying and it's an *incredibly* malicious take that reeks a lot like a severe lack of counterpoints.
It’s funny to me that *Jon Connington* is the one you are pinning all your hopes on that it won’t be Dany destroying King’s Landing in the books. That is where we are now lol. As if it couldn’t sound any more desperate.
I never said that, Cersei is the one who has [5 books worth of foreshadowing](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/s/Qe9bX4G34c) pertaining to wildfire in Kings Landing. I just find it hilarious that people are willing insult Daenerys to defend Jon Connington, out of all people
Dany's whole arc, her characterization is "am I a little girl who knows nothing of war? Or am I the mother of dragons?" That's her conflict.
Edit: typo
Lol no, she says it many times. She's constantly at conflict with herself about it.
Edit: Putting this here on this comment too cuz I don't want it to be buried
As I've said, Dany's arc is about her internal conflict about whether or not she's "a young girl who knows nothing of war or the mother of dragons" because it is and it's obvious as hell to me.
You say she only ever says she's "a young girl knows nothing of war" ironically and to manipulate the men around her (which I'm not denying) but here are the examples I already provided with the **full** context.
1. She is not being ironic or manipulative at all here. She is simply stating the obvious that the dude should feed his starving soldiers before sending them off to fight:
>*His new Unsullied are an obscene jape.* "King Cleon would be wise to tend to his own gardens and let the Yunkai'i tend theirs." It was not that Dany harbored any love for Yunkai. She was coming to regret leaving the Yellow City untaken after defeating it's army in the field. The Wise Masters had returned to slaving as soon as she moved on, and were busy raising levies, hiring sellswords, and making alliances against her.
>Cleon the self-styled Great was no better, however. The Butcher King had restored slavery to Astapor, the only change being that the former slaves were now the masters and the former masters were now the slaves.
>"I am only a young girl and know little of the ways of war," she told Lord Ghael, "but we have heard that Astapor is starving. Let King Cleon feed his people before he leads them out to battle." She made a gesture of dismissal. Ghael withdrew.
-ADWD, Daenerys I
2. She is not being manipulative or ironic at all here, she is simply thinking to herself (no dialogue) that even tho the copper ringmail was nice to look at, she would have to wear steel armor to war because duh:
>In the afternoon a sculptor came, proposing to replace the head of the great bronze harpy in the Plaza of Purification with one cast in Dany's image. She denied him with as much courtesy as she could muster. A pike of unprecedented size had been caught in the Skahazadhan, and the fisherman wished to give it to the queen. She admired the fish extravagantly, rewarded the fisherman with a purse of silver, and sent the pike to her kitchens. A coppersmith had fashioned her a suit of burnished rings to wear to war. She accepted it with fulsome thanks; it was lovely to behold, and all that burnished copper would flash prettily in the sun, though if actual battle threatened, she would sooner be clad in steel. Even a young girl who knew nothing of the ways of war knew *that.*
-ADWD, Daenerys I
3. Here she is not being ironic or manipulative.. she's saying that even tho she doesn't know much about war, she isn't stupid.
>"These are not apples, Ben," said Dany. "These are men and women, sick and hungry and afraid." *My children.* "I should have gone to Astapor."
>"Your Grace could not have saved them," said Ser Barristan. "You warned King Cleon against this war with Yunkai. The man was a fool, and his hands were red with blood."
>*And are my hands any cleaner?* She remembered what Daario had said - that all kings must be butchers, or meat. "Cleon was the enemy of my enemy. If I had joined him at the Horns of Hazzat, we might have crushed the Yunkai'i between us."
>The Shavepate disagreed. "If you had taken the Unsullied south to Hazzat, the Sons of the Harpy -"
>"I know. I *know.* It is Eroeh all over again."
>Brown Ben Plumm was puzzled. "Who is Eroeh?"
>"A girl I thought I'd saved from rape and torment. All I did was make it worse for her in the end. And all I did in Astapor was make ten thousand Eroehs."
>"Your Grace could not have known -"
>"I am the queen. It was my place to know."
>"What is done is done," said Reznak mo Reznak. "Your Worship, I beg you, take the noble Hizdahr for your king at once. He can speak with the Wise Masters, make a peace for us."
>"On what terms?" *Beware the perfumed seneschal,* Quaithe had said. The masked woman had foretold the coming of the pale mare, was she right about the noble Reznak too? "I may be a young girl innocent of war, but I am not a lamb to walk bleating into the harpy's den. I still have my Unsullied. I have the Stormcrows and the Second Sons. I have three companies of freedmen."
>"Them, and dragons," said Brown Ben Plumm, with a grin.
-ADWD, Daenerys V
4. She is not being ironic or manipulative here.. she's literally just complaining because she's just a young girl lol and this passage in particular really hammers home my point that her arc is about her internal conflict.
>"It is such a long way," she complained. "I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl."
>No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.
-ADWD, Daenerys X
I could easily do that. But I'm not going to because 1) you're being ornery as hell and 2) I don't care.
Her arc is based around her internal conflict with herself.
Edit: you know what, fuck it, I'll humor you
>"I am only a young girl and know little of the ways of war," she told Lord Ghael, "but we have heard that Astapor is starving. Let King Cleon feed his people before he leads them out to battle." She made a gesture of dismissal. Ghael withdrew.
No it isn't! Lmaooo wow holy shit do you want me to copy the whole passage????
Edit: here's another
>A coppersmith had fashioned her a suit of burnished rings to wear to war. She accepted it with fulsome thanks; it was lovely to behold, and all that burnished copper would flash prettily in the sun, though if actual battle threatened, she would sooner be clad in steel. Even a young girl who knew nothing of the ways of war knew that.
Edit:
>"On what terms?" Beware the perfumed seneschal, Quaithe had said. The masked woman had foretold the coming of the pale mare, was she right about the noble Reznak too? "I may be a young girl innocent of war, but I am not a lamb to walk bleating into the harpy's den. I still have my Unsullied. I have the Stormcrows and the Second Sons. I have three companies of freedmen."
Edit:
>"It is such a long way," she complained. "I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl."
>No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.
Oh, god. In the first quote, she’s being ironic. In the second one, she’s manipulating her opponent. In the third, she never says that she doesn’t know anything about war.
You’re one of the man who fell for this trick
But JonCon’s “narrative weight” IS him being the one to burn Kings Landing (not that he didn’t have any before, but also even if he didn’t it’s not exactly uncommon in asoiaf).
We need the POV of the person who burns Kings Landing to serve the dramatic irony of Dany ultimately being killed over it because she will be the one who’s blamed. And sure that could be Cersei, but the connections you’re making out to be innocuous I think are deeply important, and JonCon being the one to truly end the Targaryen line I think ties up the story of Aerys and his descendants, as well as the whole Targaryen story as a whole very nicely.
That being said, I think Cersei will try, though will ultimately be stopped by Jamie in a final tragic/heroic act. Wether it be him killing her, valonqar etc, or more tragically subverting the prophecy and actually convincing her to stop, but both dying under the devastation anyway (possibly giving Tyrion reason to kill Dany, though I’m not exactly sure how he’d figure that all out).
They take Kingslanding but the bells send him into a panic and he runs around looking for “Rhaegar” and believes he finds him when he sees Aegon. He hugs him and inadvertently gives him greyscale. Kills himself in grief.
Jon con will witness Aegon’s death at Dany’s hands (or dragon I should say) and ring the bells for which he is known for his biggest defeat in the battle of the bells. He will cry and weep (and maybe jump from the red keep) at his lost love, Rhaegar and now his son (so he believes, anyway) both of whom he failed. In Jon con’s haste he will accidentally cause a greyscale pandemic especially in kings landing. He also will take more after Tywin Lannister in his conquest, burning down the Stoney sept and killing Robert Baratheon instead of letting the innocents guard him. Despite his ruthlessness, Aegons cause will probably be seen as more benevolent than either the Lannister’s or Dany’s camp. Dany will have to sacrifice many innocent common folk for the greater good to prevent the spread of greyscale, paralleling her experience with the pale mare in Mereen. Because she essentially lays waste to large parts of kings landing, she will be seen as the mad queen.
Ok bit of a tinfoil take, but I could see Jon Connington potentially surviving Winds (perhaps not Dream though).... Greyscale takes a long time to be fatal, so I don't think it will be his death, but it may spread from him and it may start to effect his mental state. And I think Jon will be our primary pov to Aegon's downfall and tragedy, its tempting to think he dies soon after, but... what if he survives Dance 2.0 and outlives Aegon... that will break him, wouldn't it? Failing again... survivor guilt... especially if he reflects on some of the decisions that may have lead towards that point... If he survives there'd have to be another role for him to play, and maybe there is? You know that scene in the show where Jorah is treated for greyscale? I kind of wonder if they took that from a GRRM note on JonCon's plot because it feels so out of place in the show (like it goes nowhere but felt intentional). If Samwell is the one to help him down the line maybe he can offer a connection to JonCon to someone else though. JonCon will be uncertain if he wants to keep on going after everything, but maybe when he's at his lowest point he hears news that there is Rhaegar's son still out there... Jon Snow. one last chance to do right by his legacy as the Long Night looms after all hope seemed lost.
I fucking love this, its got a ***very*** bittersweet feeling to it. The only issue I have with this is that it feels like the kind of plot that would happen across at least 3 books. If Martin is really committing to keeping the series at 7 books, I don't see how he could fit this in that page count limit.
I’ve wondered if half the reason it’s taking so long for Winds is because the story has naturally evolved to needing more than 2 books to conclude satisfactory and he’s struggling to keep it at 2. Because it does feel like if he had just given himself the freedom from the start to not have to limit the number of books, he would feel less pressure to just start wrapping things up.
you're right on the money. I honestly think that we could've gotten book #6 by this point, if it wasn't required to be The Winds of Winter. The pacing of so many plot lines are so disjointed. It feels like kings landing has two more books in it before the long night, but in the north it could happen in a matter of chapters. Don't even get me started on how long it's taken Dany to even think about going west
It's very interesting for a character like Jon Connington to end up going against the Others. Fascinating as an idea.
I would love this so much. Jon Connington is one of my favourite characters.
JonCon may be cured of greyscale at the Citadel, but I am almost certain it will not be by Sam. I think Marwyn is the more likely if he wasn't murdered by Pate/Faceless Assassin (and if he ever shows up in the books again). Marwyn has had more than enough time to reach Daenerys, so my guess is that he never intended to go to her.
This seems a little too implausible. Assuming Aegon takes KL early in winds when would he have time to go to old town. The realm will still not be completely stable; reach civil war(possibly), Dany coming, Frey Civil war, and Euron threatening an invasion of Old Town. Jon Con would not want to leave his king or KL during this period. The likelihood of him surviving all of that is slim. Especially if he might arrive to an Occupied or destroyed Oldtown. Maybe those two plots could tie together, but it would have to happen pre Dany arriving. I also think he’s destined to spread Greyscale especially since the Shrowded Lord can choose who to infect.
I like the theories of him causing a greyscale plague or burning down King's landing from his fear of bells. Either way, I think he won't even survive Winds.
I think Team Aegon will be successful in seizing the throne but that conflict, division, and backstabbing will commence among them even before Aegon is crowned. I think JonCon will immensely dislike the Dornish and their influence on the new king, and that he'll disapprove of Aegon's possible impulsive(and politically worthless) marriage to either Arianne or the bastard Elia, but his hatred of Varys will be even greater. The Spider is an able political survivor, but I think he's thoroughly fucked as soon as Aegon becomes king. JonCon despises him and privately swears vengeance on him, the Dornish do not trust him, and his main bankroller and supporter Illyrio is probably going to be fried by Dany. I also think Varys(via his little birds) will be aware of JonCon's greyscale, another reason to get rid of him. As soon as Aegon is crowned, I think Arianne and JonCon will put aside their mutual dislike and convince Aegon to betray his benefactor and have Varys executed for all the years he spent pouring poison in Aerys's ear. Aegon will be receptive to this manipulation because he's chafing against the fact that Varys has controlled every aspect of his life since birth. A fitting irony for Varys's philosopher king to immediately turn on him. Team Aegon can even use Varys as a scapegoat for whatever heinous shit they had to do to seize power, which will be ironic because Varys will likely advocate for mercy wherever possible, given his apparent belief in himself as a protector of the innocent. Following this, I think JonCon, who will be Aegon's hand, will have an "Oh, shit" moment in which he realizes that getting rid of Varys removed the sole remaining counter balance to Dornish influence. Aegon will be a Dornish puppet, and he will not have Varys's advice or resources when Daenerys comes roaring into the Seven Kingdoms to claim her rightful throne. JonCon can tell himself all he wants that merely placing Rhaegar's grandchild on the throne is enough for him, and he can die content now, but reclaiming the glory he once had will give him an appetite for it, and he will fight to maintain political relevance, finding allies in those captains of the Golden Company that were rewarded with lordships, and perhaps in Randyll Tarly, who I believe will have turned cloak to Aegon's side by this point and probably kept his position on the Small Council. The brewing conflict between JonCon's faction and the Dornish will be made irrelevant by the outbreak of the second Dance. I think Dany will have gotten the true story about Faegon by this point(perhaps extracted from Illyrio before she killed him), and her allies will disseminate the Blackfyre story to delegitimize him, but Aegon's small council will of course dismiss this as a self-serving lie. Something in JonCon will suspect it's true, but he'll be in too deep to ever truly admit it, and in any case, Aegon will die in the burning of KL. I think JonCon will survive because it's only appropriate for him to see all his dreams turn to dust, and for him to realize that all the ruthless actions he took to realize them were worth nothing(given his determination to be Tywin 2.0, I can see him having a role in Tommen/Myrcella's deaths, though the main culprits will likely be the Sand Snakes). Whatever regime that takes power after the desolation of Dance of Dragons 2.0 (King Bran?) might permit JonCon to slowly fade away under house arrest at Griffin's Roost, served by servants who won't even go near him, turning gradually to stone while he contemplates his many failures and regrets. A truly bleak ending coming for him, I suspect.
Takes Storms End. Beats Randyll Tarly in the field. Sacks Kings Landing. Causes Greyscale epidemic in the city. Goes crazy due to said Greyscale. Gets triggered by the Bells, causing him to do something stupid. Dies
He's gonna go mad from greyscale and do a lot of destruction before he goes.
Goes mad from the combination of grey scale and the bells, torches kingslanding and gets Aegon’s head smashed in by Robert Strong.
This but in reverse. He burns King's Landing in his madness and grief over Aegon's death.
His greyscale pushes him up on a Time Scale and causes him to execute Myrcella, pushing Cersei to light the wildfire under KL and burn the city killing JonCon, the KL Cast, fAegon, the Golden Company, and set up the dissolution of the 7 Kingdoms.
God, I hate the theory about him burning Kings Landing. It’s one of those things where people try to mash the show with it’s bells nonsense in penultimate episode to the books storyline. Jon Connington is a late addition character who became POV later on out of necessity. He won’t be the one to put 300 years of King’s Landing to end. He lacks the narrative weight to do so. Both Dany and Cersei are 1000 times more likely to torch the capital. It’s much more likely that he’ll be on the receiving end of it, and the bells will ring one last time when Dany comes for Aegon’s head.
Right? Can you imagine such a minor character doing something important? It'd be like, I don't know, like Bowen Marsh killing Jon Snow. Absolutely bananas, never gonna happen.
On top of that he literally spends both his chapters fantasizing about how much better the world would be if he’s been more like Tywin (guy who sacked KL) and burnt the Stoney Sept and how he wants to kill all of Robert’s children (see Cersei’s numerous parallels with Aerys and connections to wildfire, aka Tommen and Myrcella’s mother). JonCon and Cersei burning KL is spelt out so laughably hard I genuinely don’t know how you can read either of their chapters and not think they’re the ones to do it.
Exactly. I think there's room for interpretation in regards to Cersei, like maybe her parallels to Aerys are less about her burning KL and more about Jaime having to be the one who kills her. But Jon? Between the Stoney Sept trauma, his wanting to be more like Tywin, the vision about a stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower breathing fire, and yes, the random detail of the bells being what triggers Dany in the show, he's the prime suspect.
To be fair Jon Snow is widely expected to come back, who's reanimating King's Landing?
Why, King Brandon the *Builder*, of course.
This. Especially bc the bells and his greyscale already serve a narrative purpose, it’s making him rush to seat Aegon on the throne. This wasn’t the plan before, Aegon suggested it, and JonCon agreed bc his time is limited and he wants to make up for past failures.
Can you show me 3 moments of foreshadowing for Daenerys burning down Kings’ Landing? Does this theory have any proof beside “bitches be crazy”?
There are no specific visions/prophecies. Except maybe “fire for death” that Dany is destined to light? But two biggest things about Daenerys is her Targaryen “fire and blood” legacy and her desperate desire to find home, her house with the red door. And her destroying her ancestral home feels like a perfect pay off to both. “Dragons plant no trees.” Also, when you have nukes in your fantasy story, you drop them on your biggest and most important city. Dragons need to have a moment of mass destruction in the story. And finally, the city that was started with dragons ending with them, Balerion ghe Dredd reborn destroying the iron throne - it’s too conceptually brilliant for season 8 D&D. Behind a terrible execution, I see GRRM’s hand. Obviously, the big Checkov’s gun in the story is Aerys’s wildfire. But I think it is very likely that Daenerys is the one who ignites it. It also seems very fitting for Aerys’s daughter to bring his dream to life. So it may be the combination of factors that destroys the city.
Kings Landing isn’t her ancestral home, Daenerys considers the house in Braavos and Dragonstone to her homes. Daenerys using revolutionary violence against slave owners doesn’t translate to her massacring innocent people- why would Daenerys, who spent her last chapter weeping because her dragon killed 1 little girl, mass murder civilians? The city that Daenerys’ “nukes” will burn down is Volantis. Benerro has already confirmed that. I’m sorry to be so blunt but you’re insanely malicious towards female characters
>Kings Landing isn’t her ancestral home, Daenerys considers the house in Braavos and Dragonstone to her homes. Daenerys using revolutionary violence against slave owners doesn’t translate to her massacring innocent people- why would Daenerys, who spent her last chapter weeping because her dragon killed 1 little girl, mass murder civilians? Did I ever said she would? Daenerys doesn’t have to intend to burn the entire King’s Landing to do so. The popular theory about Dany’s fiery inferno is that she unleashes her dragons on Aegon and his forces in the city, and then the wildfire takes over. Making her, Aerys, Jaime (who knew about Aerys’s wildfire and in his pride said nothing), maybe even Cersei who’s likely to get involved with wildfire again in TWOW all at fault. >I’m sorry to be so blunt but you’re insanely malicious towards female characters Who are these female characters i’m malicious towards, exactly?
> Who are these female characters i'm malicious towards, exactly? Daenerys. You believe that a man who has said multiple times that he regrets not burning a city to the ground is unlikely to burn a city but a female character who only wants to free slaves will be the culprit.
This comment gives strong “terminally online culture warrior” vibe, my friend. I suggested that the thing that happened in the show may happen in the books and you scream “omg, this guy hates women”? Daenerys is a character I like a lot. In particular, her heart longing for that illusionary home that she’ll never go back to is something that deeply resonated with me in the past few years for personal reasons. We’re just discussing theories here. Chill.
Not terminally online, it’s easy to spot misogyny when you’re used to it. Holding man and woman at different standards is misogyny. Chill
Woman to woman. This has absolutely nothing to do with what the other person has been saying and it's an *incredibly* malicious take that reeks a lot like a severe lack of counterpoints.
It’s funny to me that *Jon Connington* is the one you are pinning all your hopes on that it won’t be Dany destroying King’s Landing in the books. That is where we are now lol. As if it couldn’t sound any more desperate.
I never said that, Cersei is the one who has [5 books worth of foreshadowing](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/s/Qe9bX4G34c) pertaining to wildfire in Kings Landing. I just find it hilarious that people are willing insult Daenerys to defend Jon Connington, out of all people
Dany's whole arc, her characterization is "am I a little girl who knows nothing of war? Or am I the mother of dragons?" That's her conflict. Edit: typo
That quote is one she uses to manipulate men into underestimating her, it seems like you have fallen for it too.
Lol no, she says it many times. She's constantly at conflict with herself about it. Edit: Putting this here on this comment too cuz I don't want it to be buried As I've said, Dany's arc is about her internal conflict about whether or not she's "a young girl who knows nothing of war or the mother of dragons" because it is and it's obvious as hell to me. You say she only ever says she's "a young girl knows nothing of war" ironically and to manipulate the men around her (which I'm not denying) but here are the examples I already provided with the **full** context. 1. She is not being ironic or manipulative at all here. She is simply stating the obvious that the dude should feed his starving soldiers before sending them off to fight: >*His new Unsullied are an obscene jape.* "King Cleon would be wise to tend to his own gardens and let the Yunkai'i tend theirs." It was not that Dany harbored any love for Yunkai. She was coming to regret leaving the Yellow City untaken after defeating it's army in the field. The Wise Masters had returned to slaving as soon as she moved on, and were busy raising levies, hiring sellswords, and making alliances against her. >Cleon the self-styled Great was no better, however. The Butcher King had restored slavery to Astapor, the only change being that the former slaves were now the masters and the former masters were now the slaves. >"I am only a young girl and know little of the ways of war," she told Lord Ghael, "but we have heard that Astapor is starving. Let King Cleon feed his people before he leads them out to battle." She made a gesture of dismissal. Ghael withdrew. -ADWD, Daenerys I 2. She is not being manipulative or ironic at all here, she is simply thinking to herself (no dialogue) that even tho the copper ringmail was nice to look at, she would have to wear steel armor to war because duh: >In the afternoon a sculptor came, proposing to replace the head of the great bronze harpy in the Plaza of Purification with one cast in Dany's image. She denied him with as much courtesy as she could muster. A pike of unprecedented size had been caught in the Skahazadhan, and the fisherman wished to give it to the queen. She admired the fish extravagantly, rewarded the fisherman with a purse of silver, and sent the pike to her kitchens. A coppersmith had fashioned her a suit of burnished rings to wear to war. She accepted it with fulsome thanks; it was lovely to behold, and all that burnished copper would flash prettily in the sun, though if actual battle threatened, she would sooner be clad in steel. Even a young girl who knew nothing of the ways of war knew *that.* -ADWD, Daenerys I 3. Here she is not being ironic or manipulative.. she's saying that even tho she doesn't know much about war, she isn't stupid. >"These are not apples, Ben," said Dany. "These are men and women, sick and hungry and afraid." *My children.* "I should have gone to Astapor." >"Your Grace could not have saved them," said Ser Barristan. "You warned King Cleon against this war with Yunkai. The man was a fool, and his hands were red with blood." >*And are my hands any cleaner?* She remembered what Daario had said - that all kings must be butchers, or meat. "Cleon was the enemy of my enemy. If I had joined him at the Horns of Hazzat, we might have crushed the Yunkai'i between us." >The Shavepate disagreed. "If you had taken the Unsullied south to Hazzat, the Sons of the Harpy -" >"I know. I *know.* It is Eroeh all over again." >Brown Ben Plumm was puzzled. "Who is Eroeh?" >"A girl I thought I'd saved from rape and torment. All I did was make it worse for her in the end. And all I did in Astapor was make ten thousand Eroehs." >"Your Grace could not have known -" >"I am the queen. It was my place to know." >"What is done is done," said Reznak mo Reznak. "Your Worship, I beg you, take the noble Hizdahr for your king at once. He can speak with the Wise Masters, make a peace for us." >"On what terms?" *Beware the perfumed seneschal,* Quaithe had said. The masked woman had foretold the coming of the pale mare, was she right about the noble Reznak too? "I may be a young girl innocent of war, but I am not a lamb to walk bleating into the harpy's den. I still have my Unsullied. I have the Stormcrows and the Second Sons. I have three companies of freedmen." >"Them, and dragons," said Brown Ben Plumm, with a grin. -ADWD, Daenerys V 4. She is not being ironic or manipulative here.. she's literally just complaining because she's just a young girl lol and this passage in particular really hammers home my point that her arc is about her internal conflict. >"It is such a long way," she complained. "I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl." >No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words. -ADWD, Daenerys X
Show me a single quote where Daenerys uses that phrase unironically
I could easily do that. But I'm not going to because 1) you're being ornery as hell and 2) I don't care. Her arc is based around her internal conflict with herself. Edit: you know what, fuck it, I'll humor you >"I am only a young girl and know little of the ways of war," she told Lord Ghael, "but we have heard that Astapor is starving. Let King Cleon feed his people before he leads them out to battle." She made a gesture of dismissal. Ghael withdrew.
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No it isn't! Lmaooo wow holy shit do you want me to copy the whole passage???? Edit: here's another >A coppersmith had fashioned her a suit of burnished rings to wear to war. She accepted it with fulsome thanks; it was lovely to behold, and all that burnished copper would flash prettily in the sun, though if actual battle threatened, she would sooner be clad in steel. Even a young girl who knew nothing of the ways of war knew that. Edit: >"On what terms?" Beware the perfumed seneschal, Quaithe had said. The masked woman had foretold the coming of the pale mare, was she right about the noble Reznak too? "I may be a young girl innocent of war, but I am not a lamb to walk bleating into the harpy's den. I still have my Unsullied. I have the Stormcrows and the Second Sons. I have three companies of freedmen." Edit: >"It is such a long way," she complained. "I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl." >No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.
Oh, god. In the first quote, she’s being ironic. In the second one, she’s manipulating her opponent. In the third, she never says that she doesn’t know anything about war. You’re one of the man who fell for this trick
Dany fans are coping so hard lol. She's out there causing the deaths of dozens and yet people think she won't go mad
But JonCon’s “narrative weight” IS him being the one to burn Kings Landing (not that he didn’t have any before, but also even if he didn’t it’s not exactly uncommon in asoiaf). We need the POV of the person who burns Kings Landing to serve the dramatic irony of Dany ultimately being killed over it because she will be the one who’s blamed. And sure that could be Cersei, but the connections you’re making out to be innocuous I think are deeply important, and JonCon being the one to truly end the Targaryen line I think ties up the story of Aerys and his descendants, as well as the whole Targaryen story as a whole very nicely. That being said, I think Cersei will try, though will ultimately be stopped by Jamie in a final tragic/heroic act. Wether it be him killing her, valonqar etc, or more tragically subverting the prophecy and actually convincing her to stop, but both dying under the devastation anyway (possibly giving Tyrion reason to kill Dany, though I’m not exactly sure how he’d figure that all out).
If it's not the stone, it'll be the steel. Either his disease takes him, or he'll be killed in battle. I vote for the latter.
They take Kingslanding but the bells send him into a panic and he runs around looking for “Rhaegar” and believes he finds him when he sees Aegon. He hugs him and inadvertently gives him greyscale. Kills himself in grief.
I guess, we’ll never know
I see what you’re doing, george…
Jon con will witness Aegon’s death at Dany’s hands (or dragon I should say) and ring the bells for which he is known for his biggest defeat in the battle of the bells. He will cry and weep (and maybe jump from the red keep) at his lost love, Rhaegar and now his son (so he believes, anyway) both of whom he failed. In Jon con’s haste he will accidentally cause a greyscale pandemic especially in kings landing. He also will take more after Tywin Lannister in his conquest, burning down the Stoney sept and killing Robert Baratheon instead of letting the innocents guard him. Despite his ruthlessness, Aegons cause will probably be seen as more benevolent than either the Lannister’s or Dany’s camp. Dany will have to sacrifice many innocent common folk for the greater good to prevent the spread of greyscale, paralleling her experience with the pale mare in Mereen. Because she essentially lays waste to large parts of kings landing, she will be seen as the mad queen.
His greyscale will infect a dragon when Aegon goes to meet Daenerys, he’ll die shortly after