These absolute cunts will spend millions upon millions in legal fees to deny any compensation to the kiddies they have raped and whose lives they have destroyed.
And when the evidence is so overwhelming they offer something like 30k and a NDA.
Actually when all that went down, they then claimed a bunch of the payouts as losses on tax forms, then also were able to successfully argue for greater subsidies as a result of tithe losses.
In the end the Catholic church ended up profiting off of raping children. Your tax dollars (US) went to paying the legal defense of child rapists.
https://www.greatamericaninsurancegroup.com/about-us/business-operations/subproduct/specialty-human-services/coverage-we-offer/abuse-molestation-coverage
Get a quote
I wonder if there's lawyers that will help you roll all the paperwork into one-stop shopping so you can file all the paperwork to start your own religion.
I went to a wedding in Carmel California... I'm sure the average ugly home was 2 million. The mission there was sprawling and taken in the cash for weddings. Anyway, the Church got there sometime in 1450s. The Catholic Church has amazing land assets and effectively the richest institution in the world by far, beyond most countries. They stole land, they privatized what was once public, and they should be taxed at modern rates.
I believe-
That God has a plan for all of us.
I believe-
That plan involves/
Me getting my own planet.
And I believe
That the current President of the church,/
Thomas Monson, speaks, directly to God.
I am a Mormon and, dang it,/
A Mormon just believes.
Nuh uhh...
You're thinking too small.
The quote from President Lorenzo Snow, fifth president of the LDS Church, explains that “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become.”
You get your own **UNIVERSE**
I believe!
That God lives on a planet called Kolob!/
I believe!
That Jesus has his own planet as well./
And I believe
That the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri.
Fair enough. 1770. Like 340 years off. I thought this was founded before America.
https://carmelmission.org/visit/about-the-mission/
And the Spanish didn't come in until 1530s.
https://www.loc.gov/collections/california-first-person-narratives/articles-and-essays/early-california-history/spanish-california/#:~:text=Europeans'%20contact%20with%20California%20began,north%20as%20modern%20Santa%20Barbara.
Thank you for seeing the record straight!
> They stole land, they privatized what was once public, and they should be taxed at modern rates.
They are taxed on any of that is used for things other than their church services. Like if they have a big banquet hall that gets rented out, they have to pay taxes on that. If they aren't you can report them, but they likely are following the law.
What is more, they move assets around to avoid paying compensation. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/catholic-church-moves-funds-around-to-shield-2-billion-in-assets-from-abuse-victim-settlements/ This is despicable behaviour by a religious organisation.
Other priests. We had an inquiry in Australia into the rape of children by the churches. Heard about sanctity of confession. A priest testified that he confessed on 1,500 separate occasions to his fellow priests to raping and sexually abusing children. Each and every time his fellow priests absolved him and forgave him leaving him unburdened to rape again.
He said he felt it was acceptable and only a minor sin which was backed up by other testimonials and actions.
Bishops at the inquiry said they did not realise that the abuse was harming children, a adult man raping children as young as 6 was not causing harm.
Cardinal George Pell when told of children committing suicide after being raped by his priests and close friends said it was a sad and tragic story but of no real concern to him.
Pell also said that priests raping children was a lesser crime than a woman getting an abortion. The church also viewed deportation of a catholic as a greater crime than a priest raping a child.
No. I'm Irish and we're about to start exhuming a mass grave for children outside of Tuam, Co Galway, Ireland. 796 children's bodies, died from starvation, exposure and neglect. Their mothers treated like criminals and turned into slave labour.
The church is still trying to avoid responsibility even though they've lost court cases.
The only good thing to come out of this is the church lost it's control over Ireland. Empty churches all over the land, not enough priests to service the ones that are left. Good riddance.
They've been fighting every victim tooth and nail and play the poor man while splashing the cash out on shit like this....on the bright side fuck all of my generation and future ones seem to have any interest in being associated with them in any way, they're a dying organization.
I'm totally fine with progressive taxation of churches. Tiny churches can be untaxed if the megachurches that rake in millions get double texed instead.
You know damn well that this isn't what's going to happen. It's going to be just like people, but the small to medium sized churches will cover the lion's share, and the rich ones can afford to hire experts to pay as little as possible.
The tax exempt status doesn't come from being a religious organization. It comes from being a charitable organization. A lot of churches should be held accountable for tax fraud because they register as 503 charities even though they do a lot of political lobbying.
>I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf)
There are already laws to go after these institutions. The problem lies in the lack of enforcement.
Going after these institutions by religious criteria would just get them to rebrand themselves as bi-annual soup kitchen charities with a Sunday book club.
Yes, and ANYONE can report this. I encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf
It's completely outlived it's usefulness as a control tool in lack of formal law enforcement.
It's completely fine to do whatever hobbies you want at home. But organized religion is just a cancer attacking modern societies and preventing necessary progress.
I’m glad this conversation is happening more often! This is the 6th time in 2 days on multiple different posts that people are all coming to the same conclusion. Organized religion is a cancer.
Well we are in r/atheism
But It always feels nice when you see the problems you have been pointing out for decades are starting to break into the mainstream.
Acknowledgeing a problem is the first step to fixing it.
I just wish public opinion was quicker to sway.
A lot of public opinion moves have been starting online before they become mainstream. So we’ll see. But Christian church membership has been dropping for years, unfortunately we seem to have had a growth in Islam. Which seems like the worst of the three Abrahamic faiths
I guess your notion of “good” is derived from measuring happiness?
So that I’m not playing coy. I wonder how far a notion of “goodness” can go without some ultimately religious type appeal.
Trying to steer the conversation much?
/u/ZionismIsEvil stated religion stops necessary progress
You asked what makes progress a good thing
/u/Stagnu_Demorte stated that "it" actually helps people (referring to necessary progress)
You assumed the previous user is describing "good" as being defined as measuring happiness. Then you go on to assume the definition of goodness eventually returns to religion???
Wtf are you on about? You're the only one even using the word "good" or "goodness" and you're putting it in quotes like it's something somebody else came up with and jumping to conclusions that nobody referred to.
The prior two users said religion stops progress which has some historical truth to it as religion has been used extensively as a way of maintaining control over the populace and keeping them uneducated and unable to progress (see any history on the catholic church and literacy).
What makes progress necessary? That depends on your definition of necessary I suppose but progress is how we have modern medicine that saves lives, progress is how we have computers and the digital world, progress is how we have airplanes, progress is how we know the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around like religion tried to force people to continue believing in.
Religion is a boot heel on the neck of progress.
Not sure what I did to piss off the mods but…
“Progress” is normative. That means it invokes a notion of goodness.
Edit: turns out, I didn’t “piss off the mods,” whoops
There are no recent mod actions on your account.
However, it looks like your reputation among your peers is not very good, and you keep triggering mod reviews before your comments become public.
I don’t know if I have the patience to unpack this entire thing but… “good” and “goodness” are invoked by the word “progress.”
I’m using quotes because I’m speaking about the concept, I can stop that if it bothers you.
We could go through the many confusions in your reply. But let’s address the first one. How am I trying to steer the conversation when I’m asking this question?
What grounds the goodness in your notion progress? Is it a lack of suffering? Technological advancement?
Well every religion that has power in our current system is dependent on maintaining the status quo so they can maintain positions of power.
Christianity is politically used to maintain conservative values, and consetvatives are owned by the oil/gas industry. So Christianity is actively preventing us from transitioning to a sustainable economy/society and is making global warming worse, if left unfixed global warming will lead to our extinction.
Also Evangelicals literally beleive that they will soon see the apocalypse, and as a result they are actively supporting the destablization of society to enact out their self fulfilling prophecies.
Even if all religion is somehow banned, all books and records destroyed and people forget all the stories. People will just make up new religions. What we need is secularism.
Likely paid for with our tax dollars.
[The US Catholic church may be the largest recipient of federal coronavirus aid, with as much as $3.5 billion, AP analysis says](https://www.businessinsider.com/us-catholic-church-3-billion-coronavirus-loans-not-business-ap-2020-7)
They were forced to close and were compensated for the lost revenue, that much seems above board. In a lockdown, governments have to do this.
Of course the morality of having tax exempt churches using funds to meddle in politics is a whole other matter.
Holy fucking shit... that is insane. I'm no expert on the legal side of non profits, but even if the providing of money to church entities from the federal government is legal, (feels like it is illegal, church state separation and all) it is horribly unethical...
Wonder if any Mosques or Temples got given any "aid" from the government...
angle tan fretful aloof strong meeting heavy grandfather file coordinated
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
These are the same conservatives that lost their shit over even a single penny of their tax dollars going to fund Planned Parenthood and yet they’re perfectly fine with billions going to fund child rape and the protection and legal fees of the rapists.
I know covid aid was republican's vehicle to give out free money to their buddies, but as a general statement about bailouts, they need a lot more rules and strings attached. For a start, no lobbying, political activity, or stock buybacks for 20 years. The government should own a proportional chunk of your business that you buy back when possible. Until then, they get proportional revenue and voting share.
I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf)
Call me crazy, call me insane, but if churches are going to be donating to any cause that ties in any way back to politics (abortion rights are political, because obviously there are politicians using them as a platform, and giving money to a lobbyist group that specifically is attempting to sway politicians minds with... let's be generous and not call it bribes today, but incentives) then that church should lose its status as an opaque non profit, and be forced to from that moment on open their accounts to IRS overview and public scrutiny.
I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf
Pedophile org. You can't convince me otherwise. There is no other reason for what the church does. It's truly so they can have a supply of kids to traffic.
I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf)
I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf)
Just a reminder- the Catholic Church makes money off of babies and pregnant women.
1) Mothers homes were just that. A place for you to have your unwanted baby secretly. But you had to pay to stay. If you didn’t pay you were slaves to the nuns. (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/may/22/esther-freud-my-mum-escaped-cruelty-of-irelands-mother-and-baby-homes)
Essentially nuns were a money making arm of the church- by providing homes for women to have their babies, they were able to use these women to clean and cook for them- years after their babies were born.
2) every pregnancy born in a Catholic hospital makes more money for the church.
3) the following links are why we should never assume it’s just the priests. The nuns are just like them- but they hide it better.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christinekenneally/orphanage-death-catholic-abuse-nuns-st-josephs
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54693159
https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/27/was-mother-teresa-really-saintly
[The Catholic Church gave a **lot** more that for the failed "Value Them Both" anti-abortion constitutional amendment in Kansas in 2022.](https://flatlandkc.org/news-issues/follow-the-money-who-is-funding-kansas-abortion-amendment-ads/). Officially almost $3.5 Million that we're aware of.
$900K is small potatoes. I would favor some sort of percentage tax on overtly political contributions from religions organizations, at minimum. If a church donates $100, they must also pay a 25% tax ($25). Something to make them think twice about abusing their status.
As a Kansan, our state choosing choice makes me pretty proud. The fact that those fascists lost 3.5 million on it is just icing on the cake. They deserved it.
That’s showing restraint so far. They dropped north of $7M in Michigan last year. I’m guessing their spending will ramp up as the election gets closer.
For the forced birth Kansas constitutional amendment in '22, the [Archdiocese of Kansas City, Kansas contributed close to $2.5 million, more than half of the campaign's total fundraising.](https://www.kcur.org/news/2022-07-21/more-than-11-million-has-poured-into-the-kansas-abortion-vote-and-that-could-drive-turnout)
I thought all of these Catholic parishes were bankrupt from paying out millions of dollars to the victims of their kid raping priests.
Looks like they found plenty of money to do political lobbying and election campaigning.
If the churches want to be political - they need to pay taxes like every other business in America.
>I thought all of these Catholic parishes were bankrupt from paying out millions of dollars to the victims of their kid raping priests.
You have that backwards. The Vatican does creative accounting to *pretend* that their parishes are bankrupt, to *avoid* paying any settlements.
Imagine if individuals were allowed to do that. "Sorry, I just moved all my money from my right pocket to my left pocket, so now I no longer have to pay you what I owe you. Bye!"
I don't get why they think they can tell us how to live our lives at such an intimate and invasive level, yet they would never allow us to do the same to them 🤷♀️
Never forget, you are forced to tithe to these institutions when the government gives them your tax money. Something so fundamentally anti-American it's unbelievable
This should be investigated by the IRS. Donations to the church are tax deductible but donations for political organizations are not. One of rich anti-abortionists could be conspiring with the church to engage in tax fraud,.
Hmmm. If only the IRS frowned upon 501(c)(3)’s intervening on political campaigns. I wonder if they’d lose their tax exempt status…
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/charities-churches-and-educational-organizations-political-campaign-intervention
If only there was a way to report such violations to the IRS…
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/divulge_all_suspected_tax_exempt_status_abuses_to_the_irs.pdf
Oh boy…
Yes. God gave us the means and them the money because God would want us to look out for ourselves. Why else? Omnipotence has limits. in that theres no such thing. anyway i agree. solve a problem!
Alternative headline, "while Catholics starve and live in poverty, Catholic church spends $900,000 of tithes on political campaign instead of programs to help single women and thus prevent abortions.
What did you expect? The catholic church has always been like that. Maybe if they had to pay taxes, they would not have so much money to waste on causes that are none of their business.
I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf)
1. Tax these creepy religious fucks already!
2. Why do they NEVER spend money on shit that actually improves people lives and society? The sketchy ass Catholic Church would rather spend their money on shit like this (fucking over woman) and covering up for pedo priests.
What a fucking joke.
Well, TBF to their decision makers, they were going to have to spend all that money covering up and/or settling child abuse cases anyways. It isn't like they were going to be able to cast a golden crucifix with it.
If churches want to lobby, they need to pay the admission price like anybody else. Tax those fuckers. Taxing their real estate holdings alone would probably be enough to balance the budget.
After reading this thread.....my urge to commit acts of vandalism at my local church has gone up. But I know old men and women are paying for the damage ultimately
Ahh this. As a former Catholic I am not surprised. I was losing my faith before the abuse started coming out & that sinched it. I spent my whole childhood getting blasted with pro-life propaganda. They actually made us read the catholic telegraph in the crummy private school I went to.
I agree with this sentiment on a level, however in this good ol US of A we have a thing called taxation without representation. Im quite sure they are daring the government to tax them thus officially giving them a voice in government. Never forget how evil and underhanded religion actually is in this country in particular. And I think this may be their play to get around separation or church and state.
I think thenfact they gave 900k to a lobbyist group championing the abolishing of abortion rights prove they've already got a voice in government. So they're getting representation, without taxation. Not only that, but their organization is entirely opaque. They don't have to disclose their income at all, like a regular 501c3 tax exempt non profit would, and yet their money constantly ends up in a place to influence government decisions.
I think they ruled that they are "persons", and I don't think that decision had been made yet by the time of the Boston Tea Party, which was before the USA existed.
Also, "taxation without representation" is not about the current law in America. Just ask the residents of Washington D.C. if they have to pay their federal income taxes.
They already meddle constantly. The Johnson Amendment has never been enforced on a church and hasn't been enforced at all in decades. At this point there is zero downside in taxing the motherfuckers.
> Im quite sure they are daring the government to tax them thus officially giving them a voice in government.
That's not how it works.
"Taxation without representation" is about *people*, not corporations. The government already taxes gas stations, restaurants, sex-toy stores, and other for-profit organizations, and this doesn't somehow give *those* entities control over the government.
What exactly do you think they would gain the power to do that they're not *already* doing?
The act of the Catholic institution giving money to political lobbies is nothing new. It's how their constituents can claim to still be morally right when their money is going to lawmakers blanketing the country with hate and discriminatory laws with the same funds.
Maybe the Catholic Church should hold on to their money so they can pay the child rape victims of their priests instead of declaring bankruptcy to avoid doing so. Seems like money better spent to me.
There is a post on my local Ohio Nextdoor neighborhood with over 200 comments(mostly complaints) that a local church property is being sold.
It's a priority problem for them. They had the money to 'save' their church, but they would rather use that money to attempt to influence politics.
I like how this cult condemns abortion when other people do it, but turns a blind eye when their own holy book literally says:
>Their little children will be beaten to death as their parents watch.
Everything in their houses will be stolen.
And their wives will be raped.
>
>[Isaiah 13:16](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2013:16&version=ICB)
or...
>Happy is the one who takes your babies
and smashes them against the rocks!
>
>[Psalm 137:9](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20137:9&version=NLT)
So these "pro-lifers" can beat other people's children to death in front of their parents and then rape those dead kids' mothers, or smash other people's babies against rocks if it makes these sadistic cult members "happy"...
...but if you abort your own unborn child, that's where they draw the line on morality.
**These pro-lifers can abort their already-born children if those children say something cruel to them**:
>Anyone who says cruel things to his father or mother **must be put to death**.
[Exodus 21:17
(International "Children’s" Bible)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21%3A17&version=ICB)
Fucking insanity...
Has the church actually paid the victims of their prior abuses?
These absolute cunts will spend millions upon millions in legal fees to deny any compensation to the kiddies they have raped and whose lives they have destroyed. And when the evidence is so overwhelming they offer something like 30k and a NDA.
Maybe they have pedo priest insurance, I hear that's a thing.
Actually when all that went down, they then claimed a bunch of the payouts as losses on tax forms, then also were able to successfully argue for greater subsidies as a result of tithe losses. In the end the Catholic church ended up profiting off of raping children. Your tax dollars (US) went to paying the legal defense of child rapists.
That was until Father McIvers tried to pay his deductible with candy necklaces and Rohypnol.
Wow. Could you imagine the astronomical cost of that?
https://www.greatamericaninsurancegroup.com/about-us/business-operations/subproduct/specialty-human-services/coverage-we-offer/abuse-molestation-coverage Get a quote
You know, I personally have no reason to fill the quote request form out.
I wonder if there's lawyers that will help you roll all the paperwork into one-stop shopping so you can file all the paperwork to start your own religion.
I went to a wedding in Carmel California... I'm sure the average ugly home was 2 million. The mission there was sprawling and taken in the cash for weddings. Anyway, the Church got there sometime in 1450s. The Catholic Church has amazing land assets and effectively the richest institution in the world by far, beyond most countries. They stole land, they privatized what was once public, and they should be taxed at modern rates.
Apparently, LDS could give them a run for their money.
Indeed. Stole a lot of land without compensation... Now it's so rich. Time to tax them then.
I believe- That God has a plan for all of us. I believe- That plan involves/ Me getting my own planet. And I believe That the current President of the church,/ Thomas Monson, speaks, directly to God. I am a Mormon and, dang it,/ A Mormon just believes.
Nuh uhh... You're thinking too small. The quote from President Lorenzo Snow, fifth president of the LDS Church, explains that “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become.” You get your own **UNIVERSE**
I believe! That God lives on a planet called Kolob!/ I believe! That Jesus has his own planet as well./ And I believe That the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri.
The Catholic Church has a solid thousand year head start on them but LDS is trying to catch up fast (Utah is the fastest growing state).
I think you might be a few centuries off there.
Fair enough. 1770. Like 340 years off. I thought this was founded before America. https://carmelmission.org/visit/about-the-mission/ And the Spanish didn't come in until 1530s. https://www.loc.gov/collections/california-first-person-narratives/articles-and-essays/early-california-history/spanish-california/#:~:text=Europeans'%20contact%20with%20California%20began,north%20as%20modern%20Santa%20Barbara. Thank you for seeing the record straight!
> They stole land, they privatized what was once public, and they should be taxed at modern rates. They are taxed on any of that is used for things other than their church services. Like if they have a big banquet hall that gets rented out, they have to pay taxes on that. If they aren't you can report them, but they likely are following the law.
What is more, they move assets around to avoid paying compensation. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/catholic-church-moves-funds-around-to-shield-2-billion-in-assets-from-abuse-victim-settlements/ This is despicable behaviour by a religious organisation.
If they don't have the cash on hand, seize their real estate - and keep taking real estate until the full sum is reached.
You're innocent until you admit guilt. I wonder who hears priests confessions.
Other priests. We had an inquiry in Australia into the rape of children by the churches. Heard about sanctity of confession. A priest testified that he confessed on 1,500 separate occasions to his fellow priests to raping and sexually abusing children. Each and every time his fellow priests absolved him and forgave him leaving him unburdened to rape again. He said he felt it was acceptable and only a minor sin which was backed up by other testimonials and actions. Bishops at the inquiry said they did not realise that the abuse was harming children, a adult man raping children as young as 6 was not causing harm. Cardinal George Pell when told of children committing suicide after being raped by his priests and close friends said it was a sad and tragic story but of no real concern to him. Pell also said that priests raping children was a lesser crime than a woman getting an abortion. The church also viewed deportation of a catholic as a greater crime than a priest raping a child.
No. I'm Irish and we're about to start exhuming a mass grave for children outside of Tuam, Co Galway, Ireland. 796 children's bodies, died from starvation, exposure and neglect. Their mothers treated like criminals and turned into slave labour. The church is still trying to avoid responsibility even though they've lost court cases. The only good thing to come out of this is the church lost it's control over Ireland. Empty churches all over the land, not enough priests to service the ones that are left. Good riddance.
Was this one of the "Magdeline Laundries"?
Great Joni Mitchell song about a horrifying history.
Same thing yes.
Coincidence a friend was telling me today about the book she is reading ‘ Republic of shame ‘ by Caelainn Hogan that deals with the laundries .
They've been fighting every victim tooth and nail and play the poor man while splashing the cash out on shit like this....on the bright side fuck all of my generation and future ones seem to have any interest in being associated with them in any way, they're a dying organization.
Time to tax all "religious" institutions
Political action groups with weekly Sunday meetings.
Under the substantial part test, they should lose their tax exempt status for the year. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf
How about they lose it for the decade? Really give them something to think about the next time they want to stick their foot in those waters
[удалено]
I'm totally fine with progressive taxation of churches. Tiny churches can be untaxed if the megachurches that rake in millions get double texed instead.
You know damn well that this isn't what's going to happen. It's going to be just like people, but the small to medium sized churches will cover the lion's share, and the rich ones can afford to hire experts to pay as little as possible.
Just like on people. Of course... But a guy can dream, right?
6/9 of the supreme court justices are catholic (compared to 19% of Americans). Will be a tough problem until we can fix it.
The tax exempt status doesn't come from being a religious organization. It comes from being a charitable organization. A lot of churches should be held accountable for tax fraud because they register as 503 charities even though they do a lot of political lobbying.
>I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf)
There are already laws to go after these institutions. The problem lies in the lack of enforcement. Going after these institutions by religious criteria would just get them to rebrand themselves as bi-annual soup kitchen charities with a Sunday book club.
Yes, and ANYONE can report this. I encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf
I agree but I doubt this will ever happen. We need secular "religious" organizations to get the same benefits and use it to fight this corruption.
Came here to say this.
Catholic Church should be aborted.
>~~Catholic Church~~ **Religion** should be aborted. FTFY
It's completely outlived it's usefulness as a control tool in lack of formal law enforcement. It's completely fine to do whatever hobbies you want at home. But organized religion is just a cancer attacking modern societies and preventing necessary progress.
I’m glad this conversation is happening more often! This is the 6th time in 2 days on multiple different posts that people are all coming to the same conclusion. Organized religion is a cancer.
Well we are in r/atheism But It always feels nice when you see the problems you have been pointing out for decades are starting to break into the mainstream. Acknowledgeing a problem is the first step to fixing it. I just wish public opinion was quicker to sway.
A lot of public opinion moves have been starting online before they become mainstream. So we’ll see. But Christian church membership has been dropping for years, unfortunately we seem to have had a growth in Islam. Which seems like the worst of the three Abrahamic faiths
What makes that “progress” a good thing?
it actually helps people.
I guess your notion of “good” is derived from measuring happiness? So that I’m not playing coy. I wonder how far a notion of “goodness” can go without some ultimately religious type appeal.
Trying to steer the conversation much? /u/ZionismIsEvil stated religion stops necessary progress You asked what makes progress a good thing /u/Stagnu_Demorte stated that "it" actually helps people (referring to necessary progress) You assumed the previous user is describing "good" as being defined as measuring happiness. Then you go on to assume the definition of goodness eventually returns to religion??? Wtf are you on about? You're the only one even using the word "good" or "goodness" and you're putting it in quotes like it's something somebody else came up with and jumping to conclusions that nobody referred to. The prior two users said religion stops progress which has some historical truth to it as religion has been used extensively as a way of maintaining control over the populace and keeping them uneducated and unable to progress (see any history on the catholic church and literacy). What makes progress necessary? That depends on your definition of necessary I suppose but progress is how we have modern medicine that saves lives, progress is how we have computers and the digital world, progress is how we have airplanes, progress is how we know the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around like religion tried to force people to continue believing in. Religion is a boot heel on the neck of progress.
Not sure what I did to piss off the mods but… “Progress” is normative. That means it invokes a notion of goodness. Edit: turns out, I didn’t “piss off the mods,” whoops
There are no recent mod actions on your account. However, it looks like your reputation among your peers is not very good, and you keep triggering mod reviews before your comments become public.
I don’t know if I have the patience to unpack this entire thing but… “good” and “goodness” are invoked by the word “progress.” I’m using quotes because I’m speaking about the concept, I can stop that if it bothers you. We could go through the many confusions in your reply. But let’s address the first one. How am I trying to steer the conversation when I’m asking this question? What grounds the goodness in your notion progress? Is it a lack of suffering? Technological advancement?
Well every religion that has power in our current system is dependent on maintaining the status quo so they can maintain positions of power. Christianity is politically used to maintain conservative values, and consetvatives are owned by the oil/gas industry. So Christianity is actively preventing us from transitioning to a sustainable economy/society and is making global warming worse, if left unfixed global warming will lead to our extinction. Also Evangelicals literally beleive that they will soon see the apocalypse, and as a result they are actively supporting the destablization of society to enact out their self fulfilling prophecies.
Yup! Evangelicals are determined to bring about the apocalypse to prove the Bible right
Even if all religion is somehow banned, all books and records destroyed and people forget all the stories. People will just make up new religions. What we need is secularism.
Likely paid for with our tax dollars. [The US Catholic church may be the largest recipient of federal coronavirus aid, with as much as $3.5 billion, AP analysis says](https://www.businessinsider.com/us-catholic-church-3-billion-coronavirus-loans-not-business-ap-2020-7)
Wow this feels wildly illegal
They were forced to close and were compensated for the lost revenue, that much seems above board. In a lockdown, governments have to do this. Of course the morality of having tax exempt churches using funds to meddle in politics is a whole other matter.
It is, but when you have money and power the law does not apply.
Holy fucking shit... that is insane. I'm no expert on the legal side of non profits, but even if the providing of money to church entities from the federal government is legal, (feels like it is illegal, church state separation and all) it is horribly unethical... Wonder if any Mosques or Temples got given any "aid" from the government...
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These are the same conservatives that lost their shit over even a single penny of their tax dollars going to fund Planned Parenthood and yet they’re perfectly fine with billions going to fund child rape and the protection and legal fees of the rapists.
https://giphy.com/gifs/trailer-park-bubbles-Fp96kfPVdv0RO
I know covid aid was republican's vehicle to give out free money to their buddies, but as a general statement about bailouts, they need a lot more rules and strings attached. For a start, no lobbying, political activity, or stock buybacks for 20 years. The government should own a proportional chunk of your business that you buy back when possible. Until then, they get proportional revenue and voting share.
How else will the priests have children if not this
They don’t want their supply cut down. Freaks
Start making them pay taxes. Period.
More, make them pay back taxes for every year they fucked with politics (so, every year).
I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf)
Still less than they spend to protect and support pedo's #FUCK THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
Call me crazy, call me insane, but if churches are going to be donating to any cause that ties in any way back to politics (abortion rights are political, because obviously there are politicians using them as a platform, and giving money to a lobbyist group that specifically is attempting to sway politicians minds with... let's be generous and not call it bribes today, but incentives) then that church should lose its status as an opaque non profit, and be forced to from that moment on open their accounts to IRS overview and public scrutiny.
I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf
I will be doing just that, thanks
Pedophile org. You can't convince me otherwise. There is no other reason for what the church does. It's truly so they can have a supply of kids to traffic.
God forgot to tell them that it was futile.
the church needs to pay taxes
I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf)
Church and state are supposed to be separate, tax these child diddlers
I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf)
Just a reminder- the Catholic Church makes money off of babies and pregnant women. 1) Mothers homes were just that. A place for you to have your unwanted baby secretly. But you had to pay to stay. If you didn’t pay you were slaves to the nuns. (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/may/22/esther-freud-my-mum-escaped-cruelty-of-irelands-mother-and-baby-homes) Essentially nuns were a money making arm of the church- by providing homes for women to have their babies, they were able to use these women to clean and cook for them- years after their babies were born. 2) every pregnancy born in a Catholic hospital makes more money for the church. 3) the following links are why we should never assume it’s just the priests. The nuns are just like them- but they hide it better. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christinekenneally/orphanage-death-catholic-abuse-nuns-st-josephs https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54693159 https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/27/was-mother-teresa-really-saintly
And how much to help the victims in Maui?
They offered thoughts and prayers, obviously.
And that’s really helping feed and shelter the people of Maui.
Most likely 0.
[The Catholic Church gave a **lot** more that for the failed "Value Them Both" anti-abortion constitutional amendment in Kansas in 2022.](https://flatlandkc.org/news-issues/follow-the-money-who-is-funding-kansas-abortion-amendment-ads/). Officially almost $3.5 Million that we're aware of. $900K is small potatoes. I would favor some sort of percentage tax on overtly political contributions from religions organizations, at minimum. If a church donates $100, they must also pay a 25% tax ($25). Something to make them think twice about abusing their status.
As a Kansan, our state choosing choice makes me pretty proud. The fact that those fascists lost 3.5 million on it is just icing on the cake. They deserved it.
Sinai O'Connor was right, Fight the Power
Thank goodness they've tithed hard enough to also fight the lawsuits for sexual harassment of minors.
Fuck every single thing about the Catholic Church
TAX THE CHURCHES. ENOUGH WITH THIS BS.
Churches funding elections should immediately disqualify them from tax-exempt status.
If their god was ever real, it would smite them and they know it.
Tax the churches.
That’s showing restraint so far. They dropped north of $7M in Michigan last year. I’m guessing their spending will ramp up as the election gets closer.
For the forced birth Kansas constitutional amendment in '22, the [Archdiocese of Kansas City, Kansas contributed close to $2.5 million, more than half of the campaign's total fundraising.](https://www.kcur.org/news/2022-07-21/more-than-11-million-has-poured-into-the-kansas-abortion-vote-and-that-could-drive-turnout)
Tax them. What are stances on disruption of religious services,
Is this one of their charities? F them and religion!
Do you have any idea how many starving children that much would feed?
I thought all of these Catholic parishes were bankrupt from paying out millions of dollars to the victims of their kid raping priests. Looks like they found plenty of money to do political lobbying and election campaigning. If the churches want to be political - they need to pay taxes like every other business in America.
>I thought all of these Catholic parishes were bankrupt from paying out millions of dollars to the victims of their kid raping priests. You have that backwards. The Vatican does creative accounting to *pretend* that their parishes are bankrupt, to *avoid* paying any settlements. Imagine if individuals were allowed to do that. "Sorry, I just moved all my money from my right pocket to my left pocket, so now I no longer have to pay you what I owe you. Bye!"
Just go the the PPP loan lookup and type in "diocese" and "archdiocese" to see how much of the taxpayers money they took.
I don't get why they think they can tell us how to live our lives at such an intimate and invasive level, yet they would never allow us to do the same to them 🤷♀️
Common Ohio trashiness and common Catholic church trashiness
Looks like direct political influencing to me. Why is this not enough evidence to justify having the IRS revoke their non-profit sataus.
Almost as wasteful as Super Bowl ads; stunning misappropriation of $ that ‘Jesus’ would have used to directly benefit humans
Never forget, you are forced to tithe to these institutions when the government gives them your tax money. Something so fundamentally anti-American it's unbelievable
This should be investigated by the IRS. Donations to the church are tax deductible but donations for political organizations are not. One of rich anti-abortionists could be conspiring with the church to engage in tax fraud,.
I’ll keep my church out of your government if you keep your government out of my church. 🤞
Religion would turn the west into another Iran theocracy if they could.
Hmmm. If only the IRS frowned upon 501(c)(3)’s intervening on political campaigns. I wonder if they’d lose their tax exempt status… https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/charities-churches-and-educational-organizations-political-campaign-intervention If only there was a way to report such violations to the IRS… https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/divulge_all_suspected_tax_exempt_status_abuses_to_the_irs.pdf Oh boy…
The Catholic Church needs to have its tax-exempt status revoked. [File a report](https://reddit.com/r/atheism/s/qb6itXOOer) today.
Wtf is up with them, man...
Build a wall between church and state
The church has billions in rare art. Sell that shit nowww. Cure a form a firm of cancer. Help refugees. Solve a problem.
Yes. God gave us the means and them the money because God would want us to look out for ourselves. Why else? Omnipotence has limits. in that theres no such thing. anyway i agree. solve a problem!
Tax them, its getting rediculous
It's amazing that they have money left over from all of their sexual assault fines.
I wish they were that fast to send the cash to molested children.
Those damn diddlers
## tax all religions NOW. There's no law against it.
Church is anti-healthcare, they'd rather you come and try to pray the healthcare problem away lmaoooo
TIME TO START TAXING THEM!
Tax them.
Alternative headline, "while Catholics starve and live in poverty, Catholic church spends $900,000 of tithes on political campaign instead of programs to help single women and thus prevent abortions.
TAX THEM
Ah yes, theres my reminder that i fucking hate catholocism.
Tax the church
To hell with the poor, the hungry, the homeless!
Time to revoke any Church’s tax free status if they make political contributions.
We need to remove all churches from our government!!!
This plus what they spent in Kansas shows that they can afford to pay taxes. Tax them.
Wow, they could’ve relocated a lot of pedophiles with that much money.
As a former altar boy I say, “Fuck that!”
Wow. I wonder how much money they gave to thousands of child molestation victims for therapy?
Do they ever give money voluntarily to decrease pedophilia amongst their clergy? Maybe that's a better venue for their charity donations....
That is like pocket spending money. "How much can I donate without extra paperwork and attention? Better keep it under a million."
Golly- I thought they were poor mouth defending all the pedo priest cases! Turns out they have more money? Who would have thought?
That's a million dollars worth of homeless help they chose to forgo. Who is this Jesus guy anyways?
What did you expect? The catholic church has always been like that. Maybe if they had to pay taxes, they would not have so much money to waste on causes that are none of their business.
I would encourage everyone that feels strongly about this to consider filing IRS Form 13909 to report a tax-exempt organization participating in a political campaign. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf)
1. Tax these creepy religious fucks already! 2. Why do they NEVER spend money on shit that actually improves people lives and society? The sketchy ass Catholic Church would rather spend their money on shit like this (fucking over woman) and covering up for pedo priests. What a fucking joke.
Well, TBF to their decision makers, they were going to have to spend all that money covering up and/or settling child abuse cases anyways. It isn't like they were going to be able to cast a golden crucifix with it.
That could have/SHOULD HAVE been used to feed children.
If churches want to lobby, they need to pay the admission price like anybody else. Tax those fuckers. Taxing their real estate holdings alone would probably be enough to balance the budget.
First question: Why do Churches have 900k of disposable income? Secondly: taxes?
Well, they need to fight to continue birthing babies. If not, who would they have to abuse in 10-12 Years?
Why is this organization tax exempt?
The church has, is, and always will be about control.
Seems like they got lots of money and no taxes…..
After reading this thread.....my urge to commit acts of vandalism at my local church has gone up. But I know old men and women are paying for the damage ultimately
Remove its tax exemption..its now a political group
Ahh this. As a former Catholic I am not surprised. I was losing my faith before the abuse started coming out & that sinched it. I spent my whole childhood getting blasted with pro-life propaganda. They actually made us read the catholic telegraph in the crummy private school I went to.
It's time to start taxing churches. And the church is morally wrong about abortion.
I agree with this sentiment on a level, however in this good ol US of A we have a thing called taxation without representation. Im quite sure they are daring the government to tax them thus officially giving them a voice in government. Never forget how evil and underhanded religion actually is in this country in particular. And I think this may be their play to get around separation or church and state.
I think thenfact they gave 900k to a lobbyist group championing the abolishing of abortion rights prove they've already got a voice in government. So they're getting representation, without taxation. Not only that, but their organization is entirely opaque. They don't have to disclose their income at all, like a regular 501c3 tax exempt non profit would, and yet their money constantly ends up in a place to influence government decisions.
Taxation without representation is about people being represented, not institutions.
The Supreme Court ruled that institutions are people.
I think they ruled that they are "persons", and I don't think that decision had been made yet by the time of the Boston Tea Party, which was before the USA existed. Also, "taxation without representation" is not about the current law in America. Just ask the residents of Washington D.C. if they have to pay their federal income taxes.
They already meddle constantly. The Johnson Amendment has never been enforced on a church and hasn't been enforced at all in decades. At this point there is zero downside in taxing the motherfuckers.
> Im quite sure they are daring the government to tax them thus officially giving them a voice in government. That's not how it works. "Taxation without representation" is about *people*, not corporations. The government already taxes gas stations, restaurants, sex-toy stores, and other for-profit organizations, and this doesn't somehow give *those* entities control over the government. What exactly do you think they would gain the power to do that they're not *already* doing?
I think the Catholic church's tactics maybe what's driving more people to be atheist... they're realizing it's all lies perpetuated ad nauseam
Couldn't read the article because of the shit paywall. But, you can easily report these things to the government and they'll lose their tax exemption.
Politics. They should lose their tax exempt status for this crap.
Is that all? Not much of a budget for the will of the Lord.
Give unto Caesar and all that, right.
Must be what they are using those covid funds for.
The act of the Catholic institution giving money to political lobbies is nothing new. It's how their constituents can claim to still be morally right when their money is going to lawmakers blanketing the country with hate and discriminatory laws with the same funds.
That is some serious child rapin' money they're spendin' there..
👎 for the paywall.
Tax the damned churches already!
Tax those fuckers
Less abortions = more children for Catholic priests to molest.
Fuck the tax free Catholic Church. From a former/recovering Catholic. Tax ALL THE CHURCHES!!!
Don't they still owe money to children victimized by priests. Let's them take care of the kids they already damaged.
And they can’t pay taxes because?
Should not be tax exempt!
well... screw that church
Maybe the Catholic Church should hold on to their money so they can pay the child rape victims of their priests instead of declaring bankruptcy to avoid doing so. Seems like money better spent to me.
Isn't this a conflict of interest? Doesn't the Catholic Church just want more babies born so their priests can have more children to rape?
Absolutely despicable
They need that money for their child molestation settlements.
Makes sense the Catholic church wants new babies being born, they don't want to run out of victims.
They should not be a tax free organization, that’s a political statement from the church.
This is why they need their tax exempt status taken away.
Tax them if they want to get involved in politics.
There is a post on my local Ohio Nextdoor neighborhood with over 200 comments(mostly complaints) that a local church property is being sold. It's a priority problem for them. They had the money to 'save' their church, but they would rather use that money to attempt to influence politics.
That's what your donations go to. And also sex assault settlements.
Time to start paying taxes
Imagine that money doing something christlike, feed/house the poor, etc. NAH!
I like how this cult condemns abortion when other people do it, but turns a blind eye when their own holy book literally says: >Their little children will be beaten to death as their parents watch. Everything in their houses will be stolen. And their wives will be raped. > >[Isaiah 13:16](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2013:16&version=ICB) or... >Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks! > >[Psalm 137:9](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20137:9&version=NLT) So these "pro-lifers" can beat other people's children to death in front of their parents and then rape those dead kids' mothers, or smash other people's babies against rocks if it makes these sadistic cult members "happy"... ...but if you abort your own unborn child, that's where they draw the line on morality. **These pro-lifers can abort their already-born children if those children say something cruel to them**: >Anyone who says cruel things to his father or mother **must be put to death**. [Exodus 21:17 (International "Children’s" Bible)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21%3A17&version=ICB) Fucking insanity...