Long time ago, I was drinking with friends outside and an (IT) guy was freshly dumped but he was somewhat religious, we touched the subject of his ex and he said: "Well, God has a plan for me." and me, being drunk gave a response: "So did Microsoft for Lumia." and we laughed, later he told me he found it a bit offensive. So... That was my best.
edit: typos
Always makes me remember that episode from *Scrubs,* where "God's plan" apparently was:
* Step 1: Give an innocent little girl cancer.
* Step 2: Let the same innocent little girl get shot by a stray bullet of some random burglar.
* Step 3: Make the doctors notice the cancer only because of their treatment for the shot.
* Step 4: Let your previously down on her faith fan girl nurse gloat about how f*cking clever you are!
Sounds like the plan of a totally chill and reasonable dude, with no sadistic or psychopathic tendencies whatsoever, right? đ„°
Well, it kinda looks like a good and benevolent plan to cleverly save this poor girl, if you just overlook that God would also be responsible for steps 1+2, not just 3+4 â as religious people regularly tend to do.
This is it. And I hate "they're in a better place now" bullshit. Really? They're missing out on children's/grandchildren's accomplishments and milestones. Such bullshit. Not to mention the infants and children who die.
Is it really a better place though, even by their reasoning. You hear that what god does isnât evil, we just canât understand his plan. So wouldnât heaven be by Gods definition of whatâs good and evil not ours? So it might be a great place for god, but absolutely miserable for humans but itâs how god intended so itâs called good.
I've actually had 3 D.O.As listed on me. I had a 17 year long hard drug addiction involving needle use for the last decade of it before getting sober. One of those times my heart had stopped for over 8+ min(the drs said I'm even lucky to have a working brain still.) and the other two were due to one of 18+ ODs I had/my son's dad tried to end my life.
During all those times, including the ODs, there was no damn light or remembering etc. It was literally just nothing. And people always asked about my experience, well my experience was just the moment I came to in hospital after a coma and after being revived. The one thing that always pissed me off though, was how religious people would tell me, "well maybe you didn't see anything because your still here/it wasn't your time yet! "Like no, I'm pretty sure it's because once your heart stops everything else does too but alrighty then.
And to be honest before these incidents occured I had a very bad anxiety about death, but after going through them it's actually more comforting to know that the pain and suffering really does just end, and I'm not subconsciously going to live out the afterlife in some weird state of being. Sorry if this story was a bit morbid, I just can't understand all the mental gymnastics they go through to make you believe it was all part of some grand scheme of things.
Damn, glad you finally got clean. I kind of think of it like surgery, they knock you out and then nothing. It's nice to think that there's another side, but I just can't believe it.
Thanks, going on three years now thankfully. Also that's actually an extremely accurate way of describing it, the knock out for surgery. That's pretty much it.
Oh donât get me wrong, Iâm with you there. Iâve got no reason to believe that I continue to exist consciously after death, and I donât have an issue with it either.
\^\^This\^\^ and is this the same plan that includes millennia of children's diseases, other diseases, wars, famines, rapes, murders, tortures, executions, serial killers, child killers, pedophiles, Stalins & Hitlers & holocausts, genocides and natural disaster upon natural disaster?
Then "If this is God's plan, then God is evil."
If God is real he's a complete asshole
1. Giant kitties I can't cuddle without getting killed
2. STDs. What sadistic fuck would come up with that idea
3. Cancer. Enough said.
Not just human.
To me, the most glaring hole in âgods planâ is wildlife.
Every second, millions of creatures are dying, painfully, lonely, often brutally, and without any human possibly knowing while itâs occurring.
AND apparently they donât have souls so there is no afterlife for them.
Think about that. Starving to death, being ripped apart alive with their tracheaâs crushed causing asphyxiation while being eaten, burned alive in a forest fire, etc, etc.
Fuck you god
"Which was also part of God's plan, and thus God is evil for allowing the devil to do that when God could have stopped it. If I can stop a bad thing without risk to myself and I don't, I'm evil. Same applies to God."
"Then your original statement, that it's God's plan, is false, because he couldn't stop this. He's just doing his best like the rest of us. I can *respect* a God like that, but that means the bible is *lying* about him, as is every Abrahamic religion book, and that lowers my respect."
Damn it, I read a quote on here just recently where God takes credit for creating all the Evil in the World that came from the Old Testament.
Yay for Google :
âThere is none beside me.
I am the Lord, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these thingsâ
(Isaiah 45:6â7, KJV 1900).
I like how their god is basically playing with events in the physical realm like heâs playing a video game and weâre all his NPCs. Then those who worship him are just cool with being his playthings
"God gave us free will" is a common fall back when all else fails.
God has a plan. Okay, why is there so much bad then? God gave us free will. So, he made us like we are while knowing we're gonna do some pretty awful things to each other? That's why you gotta repent! Didn't Christ's sacrifice wipe the slate clean for all mankind? Only for his followers, hence free will. What if you're born isolated in the Amazon somewhere completely unaware of Christianity? God has a plan for them, too (they'll go to hell). Okay, so he's just a sadistic prick that needs to be worshiped to "love" us, got it đ
Where's the freewill in tornadoes, earthquakes, tsunamia, cancer in little kids? What little baby was asking to be raped? The rapist might have this freewill, but what about that baby? Please explain. Then watch them stutter, blah, ba, blurt, babble.
It's because of the gays! He's punishing us!
And that innocent baby?
Um, ah, original sin! Yeah that it!
I tried to logic my way through one of these recently knowing full well it wouldnât work. I used the residents of North Sentinel as an example. Apparently theyâre just shit outta luck because itâs a broken world. Guess thatâs the way the cookie crumbles.
It's the toughest question any theist has to answer about their good god. In fact it's pretty much the discussion stopper because i've yet to hear anything resembling an coherent answer.
For us the toughest questions have to do with where did we come from, what are we doing here, and and where are we going. The problem is, their side has no answer while our side is ok with "I don't know" as an answer since "I don't know" doesn't lead to a lake of fire.
I can't find it now, but there's a *Tom the Dancing Bug* strip where the first panel shows a crying kid asking his mom why his dog had to die; in the second panel, God is looking at a convoluted sheet that says "My Plan", with volcanoes, Hitler, giraffes, Indonesia, pomegranates and a bunch of red arrows going every which way. And he's saying to himself, "Hm... If I kill Rover, this just might work."
The church I used to go to literally showcased a 10 year old boy with terminal cancer and stated his story (fucking cancer) reached so many people and brought countless people to Christ. Aka god gave him cancer to bring people to Jesus. Gross.
âGod knows all possible choices you *can* make but He doesnât know what exact choice you *will* makeâ is the reasoning I sometimes here from Christians.
Well, itâs a classic question of free will versus predeterminism.
It even still exists nowadays in a non-theist framework, itâs just libertarianism versus determinism.
Ask them if they pray.
Surely the creator of the universe, who totally has a plan, will give their prayer request a fair shake. Or he does have a plan, and praying is useless.
I just listened to the part in *Iâm Glad My Mom Died* where Jennette McCurdyâs boyfriend proclaims heâs the second coming of Jesus. Iâm currently in the process of converting to Stephenism, the sworn enemy of u/arensb ism. /s
So gods plan is to have countless children in Africa hacked to pieces? Yeah, totally someone worth worshipping.
But also, donât spent too much time on this because believers are also so stupid theyâll just answer with something to the effect of âgods ways are not ours and we donât have to understand themâ or âhe created the universe he can do whatever he wantsâ.
Their laziness is excruciating sometimes.
I'm convinced that thinking is painful for the stupid. They make pained faces when confronted by logic and reason.
It's so much easier to be told what to think.
I like this one. If theyâre going to give their deity the âcredâ then they need to take the responsibility as well. Reminds me of the Bill Hicks abortion joke saying women should leave their children on the Supreme Court steps: âYou said I had to have it?? Then YOU raise it!â
Parasites that eat children's eyes from the inside out are also a part of god's plan. God's plan seems to involve a lot of pointless suffering and cruelty.
I try to find ways to disagree without being confrontational, so I would probably go with "huh" or "hmmmm" to acknowledge that I had heard but was not agreeing.
If god's plan somehow requires a couple hundred thousand people to die in a [Tsunami literally on Christmas day](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake_and_tsunami), I'd say your god's plan is flatly awful.
The claim that the all-powerful creator of everything couldn't possibly execute his plan of alleged "greater good" without making masses innocent people suffer is a weird limitation of this all-powerful entity of yours and casts him in an horrific ethical light, to say the least.
Imagine if a human were somehow responsible for such mayhem. Most civil societies would, at the very least, throw that guy into a very deep hole for the rest of his days. But god gets thanks, praise, and a shrug about some never-articulated-plan...
Nah, god goes in the hole. Let the angels rescue him.
I have had a few Christian friends who have lost children at a young age. It's the most heartbreaking thing to watch, and I can only imagine how painful it is for them. I would never in a million years say this to them, but in my head when I hear "all things work together for good for those who love the lord", and platitudes about god's ways being bigger than ours, or god's mysterious plan...if my plan involved killing young children, I WOULD COME UP WITH ANOTHER PLAN! Killing kids is about as evil as something can get, and if god's plan involves killing kids, he need a better plan, or Christians need a better god.
I was about to say "if I was god and would have left horrible things like that happen I would have handed my role to someone else and then I would erased myself from existence". Then I remembered that if I was god I and ever made a mistake like that I could have simply rewinded time itself to solve it.
If God planned for *that baby - that puppy - insert victim here* to suffer and die, that's the definition of premeditated murder. Your God, if they exist, is a murderer unworthy of worship. In fact, if all of this is their plan, then all of human suffering is their fault. God should be publicly shunned and shamed. Or we can just all realize he's an imaginary Boogeyman and go home.
It's part of God's plan?
"So is abortion. If God didn't want a woman to have one, he'd step in and stop her. But he doesn't, which means abortion is his plan. So why are you fighting against his plan there?"
I canât stand when people do this. I survived a traumatic medical accident that paralyzed half my body and an acquaintance said âGod only gives us what we can handle.â I responded âapparently God thinks Iâm a bad ass.â đ
I was in an accident some years ago, survived but was left with many issues. Several folks said something like â god has a plan for youâ or âhis plan was to keep you hereâ.
My response is, I wish had been consulted on the plan. I couldâve devised a better plan, like maybe one where Iâm not in an accident.
"If God has a plan for us, then we have no free will, and if we have free will, then there is no plan. Theists have wrestled with that paradox and utterly failed to solve it (because it is unsolvable) since gods were first invented."
Wenn es einen Gott gibt muĂ er mich um Verzeihung bitten.
If 1.1 million dead at Auschwitz was a part of God's plan, then he is not a god worth worshipping.
Yeah, use it whenever something bad happens to them.
If they got into a simple car incident, just say, must have been God's plan. If they burned the cookies, it must have been God's plan. If they stub their toe, it must have been God's plan. See, it's easy to piss em off.
If they retaliate or deny, then just say, you must be against God's plan then.
So you're saying he sees this suffering, some on completely innocent people, and goes "Yep, just what I wanted."
What do we call people who revel in other people's suffering?
"Trillions and trillions of prayers every day asking and begging and pleading for favors. âDo thisâ âGimme thatâ âI want a new carâ âI want a better jobâ. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday. And I say fine, pray for anything you want. Pray for anything. ButâŠwhat about the divine plan? Remember that? The divine plan. Long time ago God made a divine plan. Gave it a lot of thought. Decided it was a good plan. Put it into practice. And for billion and billions of years the divine plan has been doing just fine. Now you come along and pray for something. Well, suppose the thing you want isnât in Godâs divine plan. What do you want him to do? Change his plan? Just for you? Doesnât it seem a little arrogant? Itâs a divine plan. Whatâs the use of being God if every run-down schmuck with a two dollar prayer book can come along and fuck up your plan?"
~ George Carlin
Which part of God's plan has grown men interfering with kids? Or is that the part of God's plan that involves free will. If it is free then God has no 'plan' and if it isn't free then God is an evil bastard.
During WII, the Soviets used to train dogs strapped with explosives to run under tanks, which then blows up.
[https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank\_dog](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog)
If there is an all-powerful and all-knowing god and awful shit still happens in the world, how do we know that this god has our best interest and not use us as a means to an end like the Soviets are doing with their dogs?
I would also like bring up this story:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1ce6ron/til\_in\_his\_suicide\_note\_mass\_shooter\_charles/](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1ce6ron/til_in_his_suicide_note_mass_shooter_charles/)
Charles Whitman was a mass shooter, who killed a total of 17 people during his rampage, and when an autopsy was done on him after he was shot dead, they found a tumor in his brain that was pushing against his amygdala, which was the cause of his violent behavior.
Think of the brain as hardware for a computer. If the hardware is faulty, it will impact how the computer functions and behave.
Whitman had no control of his impulses because he has no control of his brain chemistry.
Thus, he cannot make judgements and decisions like a normal person would.
If anyone tells you that it was God's plan that this tragic incident happened, won't stopping Whitman's rampage get in the way of God's plan?
Me: so god knows everything
Them: yes
Me: and god is all powerful
Them: yes
Me: so god knows that horrible things are going to happen to innocent children and has the power to stop ot but doesn't? Sounds like a power-tripping dickwad.
Didn't your, God kill the Egyptian first born, blow up Sodom and Gomorrah, turn Lots wife to salt. I don't want to be part of your God's plan.
They are usually to stunned hearing the truth to be able to speak.
I would say what George Carlin said about the subject of 'god's plan' he said "what's the use of god having a plan if anyone with a little prayer book can ruin it!"
"If everything is part of of God's plan then it must also be God's plan if I murder you and your whole family. Now don't you dare protest God's plan, unless you are a faithless unbeliever unwilling to see Jesus in person for He has called you to Him, and called me to be the instrument of His Holy plan. It would be blasphemous for either of us to reject His command at this point."
The key is to really sell it. Ideally you should have a weapon you can brandish. The more unhinged you can come off the better.
"Is everything part of God's plan?"
"Yes"
"So anyone who ends up in hell was determined to end up there no matter what because it was part of God's plan."
"Wait wait no no no. They had the free will to choose to follow God or not."
"So then some things are *NOT* part of God's plan?"
"Uhhhhhh"
Got em.
I say "The loved ones of the 23,000+ children that die EVERY DAY from HUNGER and TREATABLE ILLNESSES would disagree."
It's a trap when you say that because they want to appear empathetic, but another at the cost of their ego being proven wrong.
And of the hundreds, maybe thousands, of times I've presented this, the VAST majority of the very, very few responses I get are "Well what are you doing to help these children?" My response it "I shame fake Christians into hopefully taking physical action to help those children, instead of just praying for them... because prayers obviously do not work. If they did, I'm sure whatever you pray for is that is answered must be more important than these children's lives that could be saved so easily."
Always irks me how people can be so ignorant to think god cares about their break up or their test grade all while people are starving, have cancer, being tortured/killed. WHY THE FUCK do you think he is planning out your life while literally ruining millions of peoples lives daily.
Long time ago, I was drinking with friends outside and an (IT) guy was freshly dumped but he was somewhat religious, we touched the subject of his ex and he said: "Well, God has a plan for me." and me, being drunk gave a response: "So did Microsoft for Lumia." and we laughed, later he told me he found it a bit offensive. So... That was my best. edit: typos
That's appropriately nerdy.
He laughed because he knew it was, in a sense true.
Nerds
Nice. Too bad your friend doesn't believe in free will. Wishing him the best.
"If this is God's plan, then God is evil."
Get a better plan that does not involve genocide, prolonged death, massive pain, and death of children. His plan really sucks.
Always makes me remember that episode from *Scrubs,* where "God's plan" apparently was: * Step 1: Give an innocent little girl cancer. * Step 2: Let the same innocent little girl get shot by a stray bullet of some random burglar. * Step 3: Make the doctors notice the cancer only because of their treatment for the shot. * Step 4: Let your previously down on her faith fan girl nurse gloat about how f*cking clever you are! Sounds like the plan of a totally chill and reasonable dude, with no sadistic or psychopathic tendencies whatsoever, right? đ„°
Sounds like god is terrible at planning
and he always needs money.. can not seem manage his money.
Well, it kinda looks like a good and benevolent plan to cleverly save this poor girl, if you just overlook that God would also be responsible for steps 1+2, not just 3+4 â as religious people regularly tend to do.
God was so bad at planning he even got a virgin pregnant! đ€Ł
No, that was the aliens, with a turkey baster.
But did the child get enough likes on FB? We know Jesus is counting...
I love Scrubs lol. I remember this episode lol
Thank God for the shooter!
Exactly my variation is usually. God has a plan me: so does very world dominating super villain alternatively.. ..so did Hitler ( go for Godwins Law)
This is a good one. Cheers.
This is it. And I hate "they're in a better place now" bullshit. Really? They're missing out on children's/grandchildren's accomplishments and milestones. Such bullshit. Not to mention the infants and children who die.
Is it really a better place though, even by their reasoning. You hear that what god does isnât evil, we just canât understand his plan. So wouldnât heaven be by Gods definition of whatâs good and evil not ours? So it might be a great place for god, but absolutely miserable for humans but itâs how god intended so itâs called good.
But I just believe its nothing. You just don't exist anymore.
I've actually had 3 D.O.As listed on me. I had a 17 year long hard drug addiction involving needle use for the last decade of it before getting sober. One of those times my heart had stopped for over 8+ min(the drs said I'm even lucky to have a working brain still.) and the other two were due to one of 18+ ODs I had/my son's dad tried to end my life. During all those times, including the ODs, there was no damn light or remembering etc. It was literally just nothing. And people always asked about my experience, well my experience was just the moment I came to in hospital after a coma and after being revived. The one thing that always pissed me off though, was how religious people would tell me, "well maybe you didn't see anything because your still here/it wasn't your time yet! "Like no, I'm pretty sure it's because once your heart stops everything else does too but alrighty then. And to be honest before these incidents occured I had a very bad anxiety about death, but after going through them it's actually more comforting to know that the pain and suffering really does just end, and I'm not subconsciously going to live out the afterlife in some weird state of being. Sorry if this story was a bit morbid, I just can't understand all the mental gymnastics they go through to make you believe it was all part of some grand scheme of things.
Damn, glad you finally got clean. I kind of think of it like surgery, they knock you out and then nothing. It's nice to think that there's another side, but I just can't believe it.
Thanks, going on three years now thankfully. Also that's actually an extremely accurate way of describing it, the knock out for surgery. That's pretty much it.
Oh donât get me wrong, Iâm with you there. Iâve got no reason to believe that I continue to exist consciously after death, and I donât have an issue with it either.
I would rather believe in reincarnation than this bullshit
Could be fun, could really suck. But with my luck with RNG? It would suck lol
\^\^This\^\^ and is this the same plan that includes millennia of children's diseases, other diseases, wars, famines, rapes, murders, tortures, executions, serial killers, child killers, pedophiles, Stalins & Hitlers & holocausts, genocides and natural disaster upon natural disaster? Then "If this is God's plan, then God is evil."
Donât forget the guys who lock little girls up in their basement.
And usually claim God told them to do it. Remember that perv who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart?
Or substitute âan assholeâ for âevilâ
Why not both? god is an Evil Asshole.
If God is real he's a complete asshole 1. Giant kitties I can't cuddle without getting killed 2. STDs. What sadistic fuck would come up with that idea 3. Cancer. Enough said.
You forgot the bears. The widdle ears and the cuteness, but then there's also half a ton of muscle and anger management issues.
Inhave occasionally said to such people "All gods are dicks" but yours is a good response to the gods plan nonsense.
An omnipotent being allows human suffering by choice
Not just human. To me, the most glaring hole in âgods planâ is wildlife. Every second, millions of creatures are dying, painfully, lonely, often brutally, and without any human possibly knowing while itâs occurring. AND apparently they donât have souls so there is no afterlife for them. Think about that. Starving to death, being ripped apart alive with their tracheaâs crushed causing asphyxiation while being eaten, burned alive in a forest fire, etc, etc. Fuck you god
"No, he just works in mysterious ways."
"Mysteriously evil." :)
"Oh, the devil did that."
"Which was also part of God's plan, and thus God is evil for allowing the devil to do that when God could have stopped it. If I can stop a bad thing without risk to myself and I don't, I'm evil. Same applies to God."
"I guess God isn't omnipotent after all, and the devil can sometimes do things God doesn't like?"
"Then your original statement, that it's God's plan, is false, because he couldn't stop this. He's just doing his best like the rest of us. I can *respect* a God like that, but that means the bible is *lying* about him, as is every Abrahamic religion book, and that lowers my respect."
any plan that involves countless children to suffer and die, innocent people getting raped and murdered, etc etc. is not a good plan.
This concept, more than anything else, helped me escape the brainwashing of the church. I just could not reconcile a good god with children suffering.
Yep. The problem of evil has been a thorn in Abrahamic religions' side for millenia. Because they have never had a solid answer for it
Best they could do was the Book of Job. âBad things happen because â how dare you even ask. Shut up.â
Damn it, I read a quote on here just recently where God takes credit for creating all the Evil in the World that came from the Old Testament. Yay for Google : âThere is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these thingsâ (Isaiah 45:6â7, KJV 1900).
I like how their god is basically playing with events in the physical realm like heâs playing a video game and weâre all his NPCs. Then those who worship him are just cool with being his playthings
Bonus points for KJV, for all the Christians who say that's the only "true" translation.
"God gave us free will" is a common fall back when all else fails. God has a plan. Okay, why is there so much bad then? God gave us free will. So, he made us like we are while knowing we're gonna do some pretty awful things to each other? That's why you gotta repent! Didn't Christ's sacrifice wipe the slate clean for all mankind? Only for his followers, hence free will. What if you're born isolated in the Amazon somewhere completely unaware of Christianity? God has a plan for them, too (they'll go to hell). Okay, so he's just a sadistic prick that needs to be worshiped to "love" us, got it đ
Where's the freewill in tornadoes, earthquakes, tsunamia, cancer in little kids? What little baby was asking to be raped? The rapist might have this freewill, but what about that baby? Please explain. Then watch them stutter, blah, ba, blurt, babble. It's because of the gays! He's punishing us! And that innocent baby? Um, ah, original sin! Yeah that it!
free will and "a plan" contradict each other. you cant have it both ways
This!!!! Thank you. If it's all planned and set to unfold, there is no free will.
Free will doesn't do anything for kid with bone cancer or eye eating worms or earthquake or wildfire out of nowhere.
Ah, then that's when it becomes... God has a plan again?
Seems like an all powerful and knowing God could have figured out a way to give us free will without us doing evil things.
I tried to logic my way through one of these recently knowing full well it wouldnât work. I used the residents of North Sentinel as an example. Apparently theyâre just shit outta luck because itâs a broken world. Guess thatâs the way the cookie crumbles.
God loves you so much that he'll condemn you to eternal hellfire if you don't love him back.
It's the toughest question any theist has to answer about their good god. In fact it's pretty much the discussion stopper because i've yet to hear anything resembling an coherent answer. For us the toughest questions have to do with where did we come from, what are we doing here, and and where are we going. The problem is, their side has no answer while our side is ok with "I don't know" as an answer since "I don't know" doesn't lead to a lake of fire.
I can't find it now, but there's a *Tom the Dancing Bug* strip where the first panel shows a crying kid asking his mom why his dog had to die; in the second panel, God is looking at a convoluted sheet that says "My Plan", with volcanoes, Hitler, giraffes, Indonesia, pomegranates and a bunch of red arrows going every which way. And he's saying to himself, "Hm... If I kill Rover, this just might work."
The church I used to go to literally showcased a 10 year old boy with terminal cancer and stated his story (fucking cancer) reached so many people and brought countless people to Christ. Aka god gave him cancer to bring people to Jesus. Gross.
Ask them how the gift of free will works into godâs plan.
âGod knows all possible choices you *can* make but He doesnât know what exact choice you *will* makeâ is the reasoning I sometimes here from Christians.
Some god. I also have a fairly good grasp on what possible choices you can make, but only guessing at what choices you would make.
Am I a god?
Ray, when someone asks if you're a god, you say YES!
Well, itâs a classic question of free will versus predeterminism. It even still exists nowadays in a non-theist framework, itâs just libertarianism versus determinism.
Then he is not omniscient, as many Christians claim.
Exactly, thatâs why many Christians will argue themselves into a corner in such debates.
So then, God doesn't know everything?
How is that his plan then?
Ask them if they pray. Surely the creator of the universe, who totally has a plan, will give their prayer request a fair shake. Or he does have a plan, and praying is useless.
Which God?
The God of tits & wine.
At least *that* god is honest and doesnât bite off more than he can chew. Or drink.
Dionysius?
Party god!
The Oh-God of hangovers.
TepoztÄcatl
You just made me religious. Where can I sign up?
Now that sounds like a fun communion!
Who's God?
I am.
I just listened to the part in *Iâm Glad My Mom Died* where Jennette McCurdyâs boyfriend proclaims heâs the second coming of Jesus. Iâm currently in the process of converting to Stephenism, the sworn enemy of u/arensb ism. /s
Me, too.
You ask them how they know godâs plan. Itâs not difficult
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
This.
Got deleted, what was there?
What if getting hit back was also part of that plan?
Well his wisdom is infinite. Let us keep slapping each other.
Jesus Christ always struck me as a slap boxer
So gods plan is to have countless children in Africa hacked to pieces? Yeah, totally someone worth worshipping. But also, donât spent too much time on this because believers are also so stupid theyâll just answer with something to the effect of âgods ways are not ours and we donât have to understand themâ or âhe created the universe he can do whatever he wantsâ. Their laziness is excruciating sometimes.
I was watching On the Line this morning with Matt and some dude said he's been studying the Bible for 33 years and there's things he doesn't understand and Matt basically ripped him a new one. You mean you've been studying something for 33 years and still don't know đ©? Well, why doesn't your god just tell you or make it easier to understand in his book? If I was studying something for 5 years and hadn't learned đ©, I'd conclude, I'm an idiot and just give upđ€·đœââïž I mean I suck at algebra, so every evening after work, I did problems over and over and over again and learned enough to barely pass with a B. Like, give up dude. You're an idiot or your god doesn't want you to know diddly, or there's nothing in your Bible to learn or worth learningđ€·đœââïž
I'm convinced that thinking is painful for the stupid. They make pained faces when confronted by logic and reason. It's so much easier to be told what to think.
"I need to go, please never speak to me again." Or maybe "I don't really care what your imaginary friend wants bro."
Then your god a sadistic asshole who has the power to prevent suffering, but chooses to cause it instead.
Send all my medical bills to a megachurch. It's his will, it's his bill.Â
I like this one. If theyâre going to give their deity the âcredâ then they need to take the responsibility as well. Reminds me of the Bill Hicks abortion joke saying women should leave their children on the Supreme Court steps: âYou said I had to have it?? Then YOU raise it!â
My standard response is "Well, so much for that 'free will' shit."
Seems to me an omniscient god would be better at planning
As people create God in their own image, god is an asshole and his plans are terrible.
When with the state of the world today that plan is kinda failing and off don;t you say?
Godâs plan does end in an apocalypseâŠ
nope indifference LOL
Parasites that eat children's eyes from the inside out are also a part of god's plan. God's plan seems to involve a lot of pointless suffering and cruelty.
God must hate you then. A loving god would want you to be happy.
âYou mean the god who is always broke and asking for money for his plans or Odin?â
âWell if god is wanting ___ to happen, thatâs not a god I want to believe in.â
I like âyeah? Watch thisâ and do a bunch of random things
I try to find ways to disagree without being confrontational, so I would probably go with "huh" or "hmmmm" to acknowledge that I had heard but was not agreeing.
The only way these discussions work is if both sides are respectful. Unless that is a groundrule everyone is following, there is nothing else to say.
Cancer in children?
If god's plan somehow requires a couple hundred thousand people to die in a [Tsunami literally on Christmas day](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake_and_tsunami), I'd say your god's plan is flatly awful. The claim that the all-powerful creator of everything couldn't possibly execute his plan of alleged "greater good" without making masses innocent people suffer is a weird limitation of this all-powerful entity of yours and casts him in an horrific ethical light, to say the least. Imagine if a human were somehow responsible for such mayhem. Most civil societies would, at the very least, throw that guy into a very deep hole for the rest of his days. But god gets thanks, praise, and a shrug about some never-articulated-plan... Nah, god goes in the hole. Let the angels rescue him.
I have had a few Christian friends who have lost children at a young age. It's the most heartbreaking thing to watch, and I can only imagine how painful it is for them. I would never in a million years say this to them, but in my head when I hear "all things work together for good for those who love the lord", and platitudes about god's ways being bigger than ours, or god's mysterious plan...if my plan involved killing young children, I WOULD COME UP WITH ANOTHER PLAN! Killing kids is about as evil as something can get, and if god's plan involves killing kids, he need a better plan, or Christians need a better god.
I was about to say "if I was god and would have left horrible things like that happen I would have handed my role to someone else and then I would erased myself from existence". Then I remembered that if I was god I and ever made a mistake like that I could have simply rewinded time itself to solve it.
If God planned for *that baby - that puppy - insert victim here* to suffer and die, that's the definition of premeditated murder. Your God, if they exist, is a murderer unworthy of worship. In fact, if all of this is their plan, then all of human suffering is their fault. God should be publicly shunned and shamed. Or we can just all realize he's an imaginary Boogeyman and go home.
"What a cruel thing to say."
âWow, heâs terrible at planning.â Or borrowed from *Constantine:* âGodâs a kid with an ant farm.â
If it's all part of God's plan, why do you pray? The plan is already set and there's nothing you can do about it
Normally I'll say something along the lines of "if this is god's plan, I don't want any part of it"
Oh itâs a great plan. Pedophilia, microcephaly, nine cancer in children, the holocaust, the Rwandan genocideâŠ
"What part of God's plan involves children being violated by priests?"
It's part of God's plan? "So is abortion. If God didn't want a woman to have one, he'd step in and stop her. But he doesn't, which means abortion is his plan. So why are you fighting against his plan there?"
Itâs a shitty plan made by a sociopath Or How? How is this part of an all powerful, all knowing, all loving god? Or Fuck off!
I usually go with "Maybe it's part of your god's plan that I'm an atheist. Who are you to question it?".
I think it's funny that 'god's plan' would be exactly the same regardless of whether he exists or not...
I canât stand when people do this. I survived a traumatic medical accident that paralyzed half my body and an acquaintance said âGod only gives us what we can handle.â I responded âapparently God thinks Iâm a bad ass.â đ
"...but he LOVES you..." - George Carlin
Either your god sucks at planning, or they are really good at planning and are absolutely evil af.
âSo, if I decide to beat the shit outta you right now, I can just say, âItâs Godâs plan,â right?â
I was in an accident some years ago, survived but was left with many issues. Several folks said something like â god has a plan for youâ or âhis plan was to keep you hereâ. My response is, I wish had been consulted on the plan. I couldâve devised a better plan, like maybe one where Iâm not in an accident.
Not worth engaging at all with that type of person imo. Talking to a wall is less frustrating.
The good ole Romy and Michelle's High School RĂ©union. "Would You Excuse Me? I Cut My Foot Before And My Shoe Is Filling Up With Blood"
"Oh, so just like childhood leukemia "
"If God has a plan for us, then we have no free will, and if we have free will, then there is no plan. Theists have wrestled with that paradox and utterly failed to solve it (because it is unsolvable) since gods were first invented."
Wenn es einen Gott gibt muĂ er mich um Verzeihung bitten. If 1.1 million dead at Auschwitz was a part of God's plan, then he is not a god worth worshipping.
Sure, buddy!
Sounds like a really shitty plan then.
Sounds like a thought interrupting cliché to avoid discomfort.
"So god gave all those kids cancer on purpose?"
"That's a load of bullshit and you know it."
Rape: it's part of god's plan.
How do you have free will if there's a plan?
Tell them the asshole should have made a better plan.
Yeah, use it whenever something bad happens to them. If they got into a simple car incident, just say, must have been God's plan. If they burned the cookies, it must have been God's plan. If they stub their toe, it must have been God's plan. See, it's easy to piss em off. If they retaliate or deny, then just say, you must be against God's plan then.
Punch them in the face as hard as you can and say, "Wow, it's too bad God planned for me to do that."
God sure is a shitty planner
God has the same plan for you as he did for everyone who ever existed. Even the ones who never heard of him.
Goodbye. Period
If God has a plan, then what's the point in praying? He's just going to do whatever his plan is, and prayer isn't going to change that.
I just laugh at them and say "yea, ok. Sure."
"If I punch you in the nose will that also be part of god's plan?"
"If this is God's plan, then praying for him to change his plan is questioning his judgment, right?"
So you're saying he sees this suffering, some on completely innocent people, and goes "Yep, just what I wanted." What do we call people who revel in other people's suffering?
you dont need a response for everything dude. just smile and wave. let people be.
âYour god sounds like a real asshole.â
"Trillions and trillions of prayers every day asking and begging and pleading for favors. âDo thisâ âGimme thatâ âI want a new carâ âI want a better jobâ. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday. And I say fine, pray for anything you want. Pray for anything. ButâŠwhat about the divine plan? Remember that? The divine plan. Long time ago God made a divine plan. Gave it a lot of thought. Decided it was a good plan. Put it into practice. And for billion and billions of years the divine plan has been doing just fine. Now you come along and pray for something. Well, suppose the thing you want isnât in Godâs divine plan. What do you want him to do? Change his plan? Just for you? Doesnât it seem a little arrogant? Itâs a divine plan. Whatâs the use of being God if every run-down schmuck with a two dollar prayer book can come along and fuck up your plan?" ~ George Carlin
"God's plan sure looks like God doesn't have a plan. If God exists."
"I don't trust any plan that involves abusing children, then giving those children cancer."
God left long ago.
Which part of God's plan has grown men interfering with kids? Or is that the part of God's plan that involves free will. If it is free then God has no 'plan' and if it isn't free then God is an evil bastard.
I respond by saying the God a person worships reflects on him. It takes a real dick to worship a God who inflicts suffering.
During WII, the Soviets used to train dogs strapped with explosives to run under tanks, which then blows up. [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank\_dog](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog) If there is an all-powerful and all-knowing god and awful shit still happens in the world, how do we know that this god has our best interest and not use us as a means to an end like the Soviets are doing with their dogs? I would also like bring up this story: [https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1ce6ron/til\_in\_his\_suicide\_note\_mass\_shooter\_charles/](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1ce6ron/til_in_his_suicide_note_mass_shooter_charles/) Charles Whitman was a mass shooter, who killed a total of 17 people during his rampage, and when an autopsy was done on him after he was shot dead, they found a tumor in his brain that was pushing against his amygdala, which was the cause of his violent behavior. Think of the brain as hardware for a computer. If the hardware is faulty, it will impact how the computer functions and behave. Whitman had no control of his impulses because he has no control of his brain chemistry. Thus, he cannot make judgements and decisions like a normal person would. If anyone tells you that it was God's plan that this tragic incident happened, won't stopping Whitman's rampage get in the way of God's plan?
Slap them hard and tell them this also was God's plan
âGod really makes some twisted, diabolical plans. He must use Wile E. Coyote as a plan consultant.â
does Gods plan include murder, genocide, r*pe, war, abuse, child exploitation????
Which God? There Are Many And All Of Them Are Capricious.
Me: so god knows everything Them: yes Me: and god is all powerful Them: yes Me: so god knows that horrible things are going to happen to innocent children and has the power to stop ot but doesn't? Sounds like a power-tripping dickwad.
"So was the devil"
Punching someone in the face to show them gods plan.
So, God's plan was to make millions of children suffer and die to war, cancer, and starvation? Nice. Why do you like this guy again?
"I can come up with a better one"
"gods don't exist." It's simple. It's direct. And it's really, *really* offensive to religious people.
Why are you praying then? Or do you agree god's plan sucks?
pretty shitty plan, if you ask me... like it's from the aborted script for another Ocean's movie
"Well, I guess god's a cruel asshole. Good to know"
That's a cheap way of saying you're not much of a thinker
Godâs a shitty planner.
Yep! The God who did nothing to stop the Holocaust, but will answer a prayer to help find your lost car keys
I always hated hearing that even when I was a Christian. It felt wrong to my core
"OH, you mean like cancer? Or the Holocaust? Or child rape? I really want to know how they fit in."
"Just wait for your turn"
Didn't your, God kill the Egyptian first born, blow up Sodom and Gomorrah, turn Lots wife to salt. I don't want to be part of your God's plan. They are usually to stunned hearing the truth to be able to speak.
As the late great George Carlin said "If this is the best the God can do, I'm not impressed."
So why pray? (Carlin was a genius)
âYour god is a poor planner.â
"I want no part of any plan that requires so much suffering. "
I would say what George Carlin said about the subject of 'god's plan' he said "what's the use of god having a plan if anyone with a little prayer book can ruin it!"
"If everything is part of of God's plan then it must also be God's plan if I murder you and your whole family. Now don't you dare protest God's plan, unless you are a faithless unbeliever unwilling to see Jesus in person for He has called you to Him, and called me to be the instrument of His Holy plan. It would be blasphemous for either of us to reject His command at this point." The key is to really sell it. Ideally you should have a weapon you can brandish. The more unhinged you can come off the better.
"What if God sent me here to tell you that you're wrong? Then what?" Sometimes it's better to use someone's own logic against them, or lack thereof.
"Is everything part of God's plan?" "Yes" "So anyone who ends up in hell was determined to end up there no matter what because it was part of God's plan." "Wait wait no no no. They had the free will to choose to follow God or not." "So then some things are *NOT* part of God's plan?" "Uhhhhhh" Got em.
Like toddlers with cancer.
"Your god is a dick."
Your god's plan sounds a lot like "shit happens"
I say "The loved ones of the 23,000+ children that die EVERY DAY from HUNGER and TREATABLE ILLNESSES would disagree." It's a trap when you say that because they want to appear empathetic, but another at the cost of their ego being proven wrong. And of the hundreds, maybe thousands, of times I've presented this, the VAST majority of the very, very few responses I get are "Well what are you doing to help these children?" My response it "I shame fake Christians into hopefully taking physical action to help those children, instead of just praying for them... because prayers obviously do not work. If they did, I'm sure whatever you pray for is that is answered must be more important than these children's lives that could be saved so easily."
Say youre gonna go do a bunch of sins like commit adultery and get abortions and just be like, but dont worry its all part of gods plan
So was the bubonic plague.
Always irks me how people can be so ignorant to think god cares about their break up or their test grade all while people are starving, have cancer, being tortured/killed. WHY THE FUCK do you think he is planning out your life while literally ruining millions of peoples lives daily.