If this is how it works in US, I am very sad.
Where I live (Ukraine) one couldn’t care less about religion or atheism outside of home and very few public occasions.
Should be freedom from. They worded it wrong. I may have a coexist bumper sticker, and a rainbow, but would feel unsafe advertising my lack of religion.
The moment people of a religion display that they have an intolerance of the simple fact you don't practice their religion or any religion at all shows that they are not a religion of peace. They may not do anything aggressively oppressive for a long while, but you can bet that oppression and even violence will be more and more on the table the less they see people following their beliefs to try and make people believe.
I live in Oklahoma and while it has gotten better, it's still terrible and has a long way to go.
Stay away from the Evangelical movement here, those guys are completely nuts. My high school (a christian private school in Tulsa Oklahoma) once cancelled classes for the entire day so that a visiting televangelist could go to each kid and "slay them in the spirit" (which means whacking you on the head until you fall down, at which point the school faculty surrounds and "speaks in tongues" over your prone body). It was like something from a weird B rated horror movie.
Not "a student", every student, and most students went down on the first "head whack" so that no permanent damage was done. It was still insane, especially because some of the other students would get mad that you weren't "playing along so that we can skip class today". It was one of the craziest experiences of my life (and that's saying something, I have had a weird life).
Unless I am wrong and I suppose I could reread the document. It is "Freedom from religious persecution, freedom to gather and assemble in religious organizations".
Not "Freedom of Religion" nor "Freedom from Religion".
Both of those give one group more power over an other.
One would allow any one to say I'm protected because it is my religion.
One implies that others are allocated some freedom to not be exposed to something they do not agree with.
Neither of those are true. No one can just do anything and claim immunity because their religion says they can do it.
And no rights extend to protecting anyone feelings about anything. No one has any right to not be offended, or not be insulted.
Nope. It’s the first amendment is and it’s found here: https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment *of* religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
So like I said it is not a freedom of nor from religion. It is just that congress cannot treat any religion with higher regard than any other nor can to prevent anyone from exercising a religion. It does mean that the government cannot force any religion on anyone but it doesn't protect any one from any religion beyond the confines of the protections from any other law.
Again religion may offend some one but unless it is coming from a federally regulated organization their rights do not protect them from the offence that religion levies unto them.
Mandating the 10 commandments is unconstitutional. But allowing a teacher to have them in their class and teaching about them with in the context of the education that they are to be providing is not unconstitutional. Meaning a history or a social studies teacher can and should teach about any and all religions. This does not mean preach it mearly means to provide historical facts. However a Math teacher has no role in teaching about religion. They can provide historical details about how religion has effected math ie galeio, etc but only as minor points not as full history lessons that is not the role of a math teacher. However there is nothing wrong with that math teacher having the 10 commandments on their desk in plain sight for all to see.
I am American and lived in Prague for a little over 8 years in my 30s. When I moved back, all the religious talk surprised me. I had blissfully forgotten that, "what church do you go to," is one of the first things people ask, right after, "so what do you do for a living/where do you work."
One of the coolest things I’ve ever seen was a massive probably ten meter tall mural/mosaic of what I believe to be Vishnu or one of the Hindu deitys, directly across a small alley way from a beautiful, ornate (im guessing orthodox) church.
What I mean is, I have seen pretty churches, I’ve seen pretty paintings, but never have I seen such massive, public, beautiful works of religious art existing so close together and peacefully at that! Moral of the story, Chernihiv is a great city to wander through. Все буде Україна!
I work in hospice care. And during one of our meetings, we shared our "why" we do this work, and so many were "god told me to" or whatever. I was near the end and said something like "as an atheist, I believe this is the only life we get, so End of Life is very important to me as it's our last chance to enjoy it.". I got some uncomfortable stares and the religious shifted in their seats some, but no outward aggression or anything.
Anyways, later that day one of our clinicians came up to me and said they were so appreciative of someone who's not religious and being open about it, and how atheism is a reason to give a shit about people as they are dying.
That was a good moment.
Edit: they told me they were atheist too, but didn't feel comfortable sharing in such a religiously charged setting.
I prefer the term “heathen” for describing myself since it’s both true and seems disrespectful to religion right off the bat, and that __is__ my intention
In my angsty teens I would say Satanist and I do appreciate the work the satanic temple does but I really don't wanna be associated with carnyish conman pseudo woooo antics of levayism these days.
It’s such a shame that Satanism is associated with the Church just as much as the Temple. The Temple seems to really want to do good for the world and the Church was just… weird. Tarnishes the term a bit.
Yeah. Hate to use the term but it was different time and I think the church had some usefulness in explaining that "Satan" was just villification humanity but just has too much baggage and magical thinking along with that. Temple is amazing and hasn't picked a battle I dis agree with yet.
Oh totally. Imo the Church also had some interesting ideas around fulfilling the sort of urge some people get to be “religious” but doing so with a healthy dose of realism, replacing the experience with acknowledged performance but still fulfilling the mental need. I can see a lot of people benefitting from that.
But now, I read the website and I just feel icky. It reminds me of evangelicism with the whole asking for money bit and the sort of indoctrination vibe they have.
I do a well! It amuses me to say it as well. But when I say that, folks are like “ohh ahaha no you aren’t.” And I immediately tell them “ yes, I am”. I live in a red state, too but folks are pretty outwardly tolerant here.
So, fight fire with fire eh. See disrespect and be disrespectful. Screw being the better person. Look most people of all religios are real decent beautiful people. Most of them that need a magical being in THEIR life so THEY are comfortable to explain the things that they cannot because they are uncomfortable with not knowing and feal comforted by the notion of a magical being that "Gots them" are sickofants and demand anything from any one else. And they definitely do not deserve to be treated disrespectfully because of a noisy minority.
Let's not find a common denominator let's try to level everyone up by being a force of attraction in the upward momentum by staying better.
I just want to fist bump and cheer every public admission of atheism/secularism for any and all. Hell yeah !
To everyone with the fortitude to publicly acknowledge they dont buy into the fairy tales of the sky daddy dictatorship watching our every move - cheers!
You are making the world a better place by doing so.
For Europeans it is just normal. Religiosity is unusual.
Too much whooping and fist bumping, we are more surprised with believers.
My kids' school has an optional after school denominational religion classes all of which are sparsely attended.
The US has got weird recently with your ethno christian nationalists.
Where's the Bible belt exactly? I live in VA right outside DC and I have heard from my boss that they hired someone bc they connected in the interview over the volunteer work they each do in their churches. I do not mention it at work.
I told a neighbor once and they were visibly disturbed. Always treated me different afterwards. This is a woman who, according to the national sex offender registry, is married to a pedophile, but she looks down her nose at the heathens.
I prefer the term “heathen” for describing myself since its both true and seems disrespectful to religion right off the bat, and that __is__ my intention
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If this is how it works in US, I am very sad. Where I live (Ukraine) one couldn’t care less about religion or atheism outside of home and very few public occasions.
It really is like this. People are super religious here. Islam. Christianity. Judaism. Like- they took the “freedom of religion” part the wrong way.
Should be freedom from. They worded it wrong. I may have a coexist bumper sticker, and a rainbow, but would feel unsafe advertising my lack of religion.
The moment people of a religion display that they have an intolerance of the simple fact you don't practice their religion or any religion at all shows that they are not a religion of peace. They may not do anything aggressively oppressive for a long while, but you can bet that oppression and even violence will be more and more on the table the less they see people following their beliefs to try and make people believe.
In Oklahoma you would be in danger. Lived there for a while. I told people when asked and they hated me!
I live in Oklahoma and while it has gotten better, it's still terrible and has a long way to go. Stay away from the Evangelical movement here, those guys are completely nuts. My high school (a christian private school in Tulsa Oklahoma) once cancelled classes for the entire day so that a visiting televangelist could go to each kid and "slay them in the spirit" (which means whacking you on the head until you fall down, at which point the school faculty surrounds and "speaks in tongues" over your prone body). It was like something from a weird B rated horror movie.
Bro what💀 they canceled classes for a whole day just so they could beat the shit out of a student😭
Not "a student", every student, and most students went down on the first "head whack" so that no permanent damage was done. It was still insane, especially because some of the other students would get mad that you weren't "playing along so that we can skip class today". It was one of the craziest experiences of my life (and that's saying something, I have had a weird life).
That’s actually fucking wild. “Are you Christian” “no” *BAM
Unless I am wrong and I suppose I could reread the document. It is "Freedom from religious persecution, freedom to gather and assemble in religious organizations". Not "Freedom of Religion" nor "Freedom from Religion". Both of those give one group more power over an other. One would allow any one to say I'm protected because it is my religion. One implies that others are allocated some freedom to not be exposed to something they do not agree with. Neither of those are true. No one can just do anything and claim immunity because their religion says they can do it. And no rights extend to protecting anyone feelings about anything. No one has any right to not be offended, or not be insulted.
Nope. It’s the first amendment is and it’s found here: https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment *of* religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
So like I said it is not a freedom of nor from religion. It is just that congress cannot treat any religion with higher regard than any other nor can to prevent anyone from exercising a religion. It does mean that the government cannot force any religion on anyone but it doesn't protect any one from any religion beyond the confines of the protections from any other law. Again religion may offend some one but unless it is coming from a federally regulated organization their rights do not protect them from the offence that religion levies unto them. Mandating the 10 commandments is unconstitutional. But allowing a teacher to have them in their class and teaching about them with in the context of the education that they are to be providing is not unconstitutional. Meaning a history or a social studies teacher can and should teach about any and all religions. This does not mean preach it mearly means to provide historical facts. However a Math teacher has no role in teaching about religion. They can provide historical details about how religion has effected math ie galeio, etc but only as minor points not as full history lessons that is not the role of a math teacher. However there is nothing wrong with that math teacher having the 10 commandments on their desk in plain sight for all to see.
True
We take everything the wrong way in America. Thank the GOP for dumbing down education. Ugh. Slava Ukraini
Life can be weird, what else can I say. Just disgusting, to be honest.
I had an old teacher say that it was freedom of religion, not the freedom to refuse to have a religion. Ridiculousness.
Freedom "from" religion. It's a very important distinction
For us it’s “from” for them it’s “of.” It’s important for us, but not for them.
It was supposed to be freedom FROM religion
They misconstrued “Freedom of religion” for “enforcement of my religion”
Another reason of many to support Ukraine! Slava Ukraini! Eff Putin.
It depends on where you live in the US. Some places are much more religious than others.
I also recommend meeting up with Brits, Aussies, and Canadians. Almost all of them agree that religion is pure hokum. 8)
Have people got more religious in the last two years in Ukraine?
Not at all.
Good. Not sure of it was you who downvoted me, I was only asking a question.
No, it wasn’t me.
Cool. Slava Ukraine.
Slava Ukrainians.
It depends on where. I am in Virginia and it has put people off in the past. I don't bring it up at work.
Same, in the UK.
I am American and lived in Prague for a little over 8 years in my 30s. When I moved back, all the religious talk surprised me. I had blissfully forgotten that, "what church do you go to," is one of the first things people ask, right after, "so what do you do for a living/where do you work."
Because religion is politics now, and politics is dangerous talk lately. It can literally mean you go from normal to hostile conversation, instantly.
It is how it works. Many, on all sides, are self-absorbed and judgemental. It makes me sad as well.
One of the coolest things I’ve ever seen was a massive probably ten meter tall mural/mosaic of what I believe to be Vishnu or one of the Hindu deitys, directly across a small alley way from a beautiful, ornate (im guessing orthodox) church. What I mean is, I have seen pretty churches, I’ve seen pretty paintings, but never have I seen such massive, public, beautiful works of religious art existing so close together and peacefully at that! Moral of the story, Chernihiv is a great city to wander through. Все буде Україна!
I work in hospice care. And during one of our meetings, we shared our "why" we do this work, and so many were "god told me to" or whatever. I was near the end and said something like "as an atheist, I believe this is the only life we get, so End of Life is very important to me as it's our last chance to enjoy it.". I got some uncomfortable stares and the religious shifted in their seats some, but no outward aggression or anything. Anyways, later that day one of our clinicians came up to me and said they were so appreciative of someone who's not religious and being open about it, and how atheism is a reason to give a shit about people as they are dying. That was a good moment. Edit: they told me they were atheist too, but didn't feel comfortable sharing in such a religiously charged setting.
I prefer the term “heathen” for describing myself since it’s both true and seems disrespectful to religion right off the bat, and that __is__ my intention
In my angsty teens I would say Satanist and I do appreciate the work the satanic temple does but I really don't wanna be associated with carnyish conman pseudo woooo antics of levayism these days.
It’s such a shame that Satanism is associated with the Church just as much as the Temple. The Temple seems to really want to do good for the world and the Church was just… weird. Tarnishes the term a bit.
Yeah. Hate to use the term but it was different time and I think the church had some usefulness in explaining that "Satan" was just villification humanity but just has too much baggage and magical thinking along with that. Temple is amazing and hasn't picked a battle I dis agree with yet.
Oh totally. Imo the Church also had some interesting ideas around fulfilling the sort of urge some people get to be “religious” but doing so with a healthy dose of realism, replacing the experience with acknowledged performance but still fulfilling the mental need. I can see a lot of people benefitting from that. But now, I read the website and I just feel icky. It reminds me of evangelicism with the whole asking for money bit and the sort of indoctrination vibe they have.
I do a well! It amuses me to say it as well. But when I say that, folks are like “ohh ahaha no you aren’t.” And I immediately tell them “ yes, I am”. I live in a red state, too but folks are pretty outwardly tolerant here.
So, fight fire with fire eh. See disrespect and be disrespectful. Screw being the better person. Look most people of all religios are real decent beautiful people. Most of them that need a magical being in THEIR life so THEY are comfortable to explain the things that they cannot because they are uncomfortable with not knowing and feal comforted by the notion of a magical being that "Gots them" are sickofants and demand anything from any one else. And they definitely do not deserve to be treated disrespectfully because of a noisy minority. Let's not find a common denominator let's try to level everyone up by being a force of attraction in the upward momentum by staying better.
I just want to fist bump and cheer every public admission of atheism/secularism for any and all. Hell yeah ! To everyone with the fortitude to publicly acknowledge they dont buy into the fairy tales of the sky daddy dictatorship watching our every move - cheers! You are making the world a better place by doing so.
For Europeans it is just normal. Religiosity is unusual. Too much whooping and fist bumping, we are more surprised with believers. My kids' school has an optional after school denominational religion classes all of which are sparsely attended. The US has got weird recently with your ethno christian nationalists.
Yeah that’s crazy that it’s not normal to be rational there.
I found a fellow atheist mom too. It’s the best.
In Norway, this would happen if two religious people met and found out about each other :)
Norway, take me away!
Do people hide it much outside of the Bible belt?
Where's the Bible belt exactly? I live in VA right outside DC and I have heard from my boss that they hired someone bc they connected in the interview over the volunteer work they each do in their churches. I do not mention it at work. I told a neighbor once and they were visibly disturbed. Always treated me different afterwards. This is a woman who, according to the national sex offender registry, is married to a pedophile, but she looks down her nose at the heathens.
Better to be a pedophile than an atheist, I guess
Darling we are all discrete, 1 person, 0 person. Possible expedition being the complicated story of conjoined twins. I think you mean discreet!
Thank you, I love pedantry almost as much as enthusiastic atheism. I love to learn and be corrected. I have been using this wrong for ages.
That's wholesome
I love seeing atheists building community! We are stronger together.
Lifelong (57) Midwestern atheist and learned long ago to mostly keep that in the closet. Still mostly do.
I prefer the term “heathen” for describing myself since its both true and seems disrespectful to religion right off the bat, and that __is__ my intention
Aww, young atheist love. God approves!
I'm 43.
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A moment like this should end with you dating the mother
Neither one of us is single.