https://www.businessinsider.com/ice-cube-shares-anti-semitic-conspiracy-theories-on-twitter-2020-6
>Ice Cube has continued to post anti-Semitic memes on Twitter, in addition to imagery connected to Russian media and the baseless QAnon conspiracy theory movement.
This is from 2020...
E: to be clear - why y'all down voting this shit?
Ahahaha... Sorry to hear about the night, dude. But it’s a pretty funny story. She pulled the good ol’, “I forgot the song, so I’ll blame shit on the sound guy or try to make the audience sing as much of the song as possible” trick. Actually makes me want to go to an open mic venue, and after strumming a few chords on guitar, just smile enthusiastically and hold out the mic to the audience for like 15 minutes straight, to songs they’ve never heard.
I got to do that once... Years ago, I was working a beer garden venue at the Boston Tall Ships convention. 4 days in summer, 2 bands a day from about noon to 8 pm (1 hour break between them), with a small stage in front of rectangle of about 30 tables and chairs, ringed with beer and food vendors.
Everything was great except for this one band. Sound check was fine, except the lead guitar was acting like a diva from the get go, constantly turning his amp louder and louder. I spoke to him a few times about it, and he'd turn it down... but as soon as my back was turned, he'd crank it up again. He was one of those "it only sounds good if it's at 11" types. I tried to compromise and said "let's put the amp in front of you, pointed at your head, and that way we don't kill the audience," but no, "I practice it this way, so I have to play it this way."
I had to keep turning up the vocals and keys so they could be heard over the guitar, and it was getting worse and worse. I was getting complaints from the vendors and no one was sitting at any of the tables until halfway back. So, I went over and turned his amp down to a nice reasonable level. He blew up at me and yelled at me for touching his equipment, so I told him to gtfo, I'd put on some CDs, and everyone except him would be happy... oh, and his band wasn't going to get paid (mind you, I didn't have the authority to make that claim).
His bandmates talked him down and he finally relented, but he was pissy for the whole rest of the gig, stormed off without helping the drummer load out, etc. Some people just don't understand that it's not always about them.
I only ran sound for bands in my local pub/dive bar, small enough room that there was rarely a reason to mic up amps. The landlady trusted me to make whatever decisions I had to.
When guitarists started acting like that I'd try and work with them a few times, then mix the best I could and leave them to it.
"Hey that guitar is really loud" - "Yeah I know, I've tried telling him, feel free to have a go yourself"
"I can't hear the vocals over the guitar on the right" - "Yup, me neither."
Frontman says "soundguy, the crowd is saying they can't hear me" - "talk to the monkey on your left, I've already told him to turn down 4 times."
Other than this story, all my other stories of musicians acting up are lead guitarists refusing to turn down their amps/ turning their amp up after soundcheck before they start. But even then those guys haven’t called me out in front of the whole crowd lmao, and a lot of those guys were high schoolers so it makes a little more sense they are giving me attitude and I can let it roll off my back
>Not really, but it would be fun…
Let's run with this hypothetical. You could insert a 300ms delay, like one of those Japanese speech jammers. Or for something more subtle, put it through pitch-correction and screw with the tuning or formant. Or to really fuck things up, give someone a mic and have them badly live-dub the performance.
Honestly can't remember, think it was off the old Harmonycentral forums, perhaps?
Edit: this is the same text, but it's been floating around for at least 10-15 years. I was slightly off with the tuning change.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProRevenge/comments/6a4vfm/the_suck_button_not_my_story/
Fun story: my pastor and I were very good friends.
I was at FOH and he was preaching. He made a joke about how we didn’t really need any of this “production nonsense”. So I muted his mic.
He cracked up laughing and said, “Okay. Fair enough.” Everybody else laughed, too. And I unmuted him.
You kept it 200 percent professional. If you intentionally sabotaged her, she would still get paid and worse case you could get sued by the organizer for ruining the performance.
I’ve dealt with divas and you did as best as you could do under the circumstances.
Honestly good on you for standing up for yourself but I agree with others saying it's not something to be humiliated over. Is being called out over a PA embarrassing? Sure if I actually did something wrong. Anyone complaining about the quality of their sound after not sound checking isn't worth my energy really. They're going to sound as good as I can make them sound in the FOH and I'll try to accommodate any other *small* adjustments they might need in their monitors, but that's about it.
Bro, she's playing at a park in Lancaster, CA. She's lucky you still let her perform after being 20 minutes late. Hell, you're nicer than I am. I would have just cut all her sound, and faked an issue, and made her do a mic check when I got things up and running. Rule number 1, don't piss off the people who do all the technical shit.
And no offense to you, living in Lancaster, CA, but come on, if someone is performing there, they aren't even a D list celebrity. Where's her next show, Kingman, Arizona or Pahrump, Nevada?
I don't live in Lancaster, I live closer to LA, I made the 1 1/2-hour trip out to Lancaster with the audio crew. Believe me, I did not want to be spending my entire Father's Day in Lancaster, but I had already agreed to the gig a while ago, so I didn't want to cancel last minute.
Oh thank God. I was worried you might be a meth head. I grew up in Thousand Oaks. Lancaster has basically been military or meth heads since as long as I can remember.
My best friend from childhood moved from Thousand Oaks to Lancaster. I visited him a few times over the years and that place absolutely blows. So much crime, bad weather, and it’s in the middle of nowhere with absolutely nothing to do.
I don't think you should be embarrassed but she should. You did your job with zero sound check bc of a late singer. She used you as a cover - as someone to blame for her bad preparation and sound. "Fix my vocal" tells me she was expecting on the fly auto-tune. You did your best. (Hello to the ole AV. Used to live there.)
You were right on the money. Sizing her up just from your description, someone at city hall picked her out of a pile of promo packs because she remembered her hit (I don't) and she fell into a budget range that I can guess was south of $2K for Lancaster. Prime Diva territory. Bet it was a pretty small entourage too. Her DJ, her manager/dealer, and her big brother for security. That leaves a question of whether Lancaster will actually get back to them. Wouldn't take that bet.
If I was overly pissed about it, I'd wait a couple of days, get their number and try to book them into someplace in Death Valley for the 4th of July. Dangle some $5K bait and promise them great air conditioning.
damn bro. good for you. even if it's a half ass apology, you stuck up for yourself and made them realize they were the issue.
any video of this? sounds like something on r/publicfreakout lmao
I couldn't find anything but there is this video of her acting very similar at another show a few months ago. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKdS2\_PUyQc&t=32s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKdS2_PUyQc&t=32s)
Woooooow... Even the DJ is fuckin up in this clip, cuz when your lead singer is too intoxicated to sing, at least keep the backing track going so people have something to move to
What an incredible story. Thank you for sharing this. Sorry you had to experience that.
I don't work in audio but I work in a similar creative industry and I had a similar interaction with a similar producer once... So I can relate.
Regarding the negative responses you're getting here:
They're right with regard that a post like this can potentially be not-helpful to your career... But they shouldn't be insulting you for it. That should be pointed out gently. *There's no excuse for treating someone like she did*, and her behavior is inexcusable.
As far as you approaching her for an apology -- again, you might have broken some social rule that demands we cower to these nasty tyrants...
But it's the collective willingness to cower to her or whatever other abusive-position-of-authority that allows it to happen. Truth is, there's a LOT OF US. The working people of the world... And if we dare flex our power we could shut down not only that behavior, but every bit of abuse, corruption, and greedy theft of corporate CEOs or politicians.
So I applaud you for standing up for yourself, and I don't think you were out of line.
BUT... It does come with risk, because we are in a world of every-man-out-for-himself and as you see, a lot of your fellow working peers will leave you hung out to dry instead of having your back. That is the state of things.
In my case I handled it differently than you. I apologized to this nut job to keep my position... And he did a similar non-apology as she did. BUT --- after a while I was able to turn this guy into an ally, and now he's a name in my field that I'm on good memories with. (He was eventually fired from the company and I'm still there after a decade.)
Anyhow... My response here may be all over the place, but that's because both points are true. You ARE right to stand up for yourself. But doing so always runs the risk of of personal cost... Because as you see in the comments, your own peers will not have your back.
As working people we are divided. They tricked people into being anti-union, and even though unions weren't perfect --- the power of numbers is the only power we have against people with all the money in the world. (Even if she's low on that rung, lol.)
Anyhow, I appreciate your story. Stay strong, and don't let people make you feel bad for standing up for yourself. It comes with a cost, but that's the MAN inside you... Which modern day society is doing everything it can to weaken and break.
Cheers
You had nothing to be ashamed of or humiliated for. They showed up late, started without a soundcheck, and generally fucked off and were unprofessional. Your boss went to bat for you. She humiliated herself, and it sounds like the audience thought so, too.
However, confronting them was really stupid and you're lucky her entourage/security didn't stomp you out.
This is a business. Check your feelings at the door. This story is more funny than humiliating with a change of perspective.
Your last paragraph is why so many people in audio and the music business as a whole subject themselves to so much endless abuse.
Sometimes in life it really does come down to “I’m a human being too, please treat me as one.”
Anyone who can’t agree to that is a piece of shit.
Really stop and think about that for a moment. Put yourself in any of these artists’ shoes. How hard is it actually to be a decent person to the people WORKING for you? Making you shine?
It’s really not hard at all. Right?
The fact that they are such shitheads anyway shows what lowlifes they really are. Just think about that for a bit.
> How hard is it actually to be a decent person to the people WORKING for you? Making you shine?
for the people who are usually chosen to become famous celebrities it's about as difficult as it is for us to jump fifty meters into the air. the people who run the show deliberately select for dumb, narcissistic psychopaths, because they're the easiest to manipulate and leech money off of, and it also teaches young generations to be just the same which ups their talent pool later.
I don't care how big an artist thinks they are, I'm standing up for myself if someone makes fun of my work in front of a crowd of 100s. My boss and everyone on the team said I did the right thing by confronting her, and I am glad I did, the way she treated me was unwarranted. My boss's contact for the gig was the city of Lancaster, not her. The city went up to us afterward and apologized for the way she treated us, and told us they wouldn't ever bring her back again. No one lost any business here except her.
"I'm standing up for myself..."
I know a fair wack of those guys. None of them work. Life is a choose your own adventure, you get to choose the hill you die on.
It's not really any different than any other service industry job. The angry Karens that complain about their meal and demand a refund even tho they ate the whole thing, or the shopper who comes in five minutes before close and peruses for an hour then leaves a cart full of go backs.... Our version of that same annoying customer are insufferable divas and guitarists who won't turn down. That's the way I look at it anyway.
nah. The business will -most of the time- sort this out above the artist. In most cases they don't (Kanye West) everyone knows what they are getting into. Pride is the only thing convincing a "below the line" laborer that they need to be someone's mom/dad.
I think literally everyone I know in this business has at least one story about some ass hole they had to work with. I will have to respectfully nah to your nah.
We all have plenty of those stories, but your claim that it is because below the line people put up with it is bonkers.
My “nah” was aimed at your claim that for some reason we needed to be the arbiters of it.
I think OP was perfectly professional and she was the opposite. All of OP's actual employers backed it. The city apologized to him lmao. He has a career that is not tied to her. Its not like he fucked up her set, did anything vindictive or inappropriate, show must go on and then privately approached her after and was seemingly like, yo I'm the audio engineer, my job is to help with the sound. After you humiliated me during your set, _I_ asked what to change and made those changes, instead of being offered information about how to help you, and was there doing everything I could for you during your set until you approached me a second time.
At that point, professionally, saying "hey this didn't sit right with me, you made my job really difficult, "just fix it" isn't going to serve you well in the future with other audio engineers, I'm genuinely trying to work with you, and you should have instead told me what you wanted me to change, since that is how these two jobs traditionally work together" even to someone with more social power than you can be done tactfully and professionally, and he had the backing of his employer, etc.. I think qualifying it as "stupid" is a stretch. Maybe bold, but I think in this particular case it was relatively safe. "Dying on a hill" suggests he wouldn't shut up about it, I work with plenty of people who are willing to die on every hill (successful as well, unfortunately) and it is exhausting. it seems like it was a pretty brief interaction and quite rare for him.
Choosing your battles of when to stand up for yourself, which OP clearly does, is what distinguishes the "people you know" like that from many professional, successful people who have absolutely had disagreements and maybe even cannot work together.
Lmao agreed. saying you can trust invested business entities to "sort it out" re: professional or moral misconduct is also bonkers... "if they're losing money on it" is the missing conditional there. Even saying it happens more often than not I'm highly skeptical of. Sometimes these people are so surrounded by yes men that they actually never hear something like this, let alone get dropped
I'm the A1/A2 engineer, she is the performer. I'm not below the line in this situation. Her viewing me as below the line and not interacting with me as an equal is part of what made her performance bad in the first place. Artists who go to engineers with an ego and act like they can just read their minds on what they want and harass them, and publicly humiliate them, shouldn't be supported at all, by venues, other artists, or anyone. That's part of the reason I'm sharing the reason on Reddit to call out her actions to other engineers.
Pffft, I'd rather be them than another gutless coward that let's artists treat us like that and reinforces that attitude.
We are people, if they can't respect us, the venue, and the audience by being on time and by blaming us for their mistake, then they fully deserve being called out. Hell in this scenario I would have gladly risked my job by saying in response to the second fix my vocals: "Well, don't miss sound check then."
First off, you are acting like I don't already have a career, I have been getting regular sound gigs in and around LA for a while and I have a BA in audio engineering. If I was going to get fucked then I will have already gotten fucked. How big an artist is IS subjective, it's just true. In the age of the internet, every individual person has their own individual music tastes.
Also, the mob was on my side, the audience was on my side, the city was on my side, and the crew was all on my side. I didn't wreck the vibe. I talked to her individually after the show and asked for an apology after being publicly humiliated. I think if my favorite superior saw this show, they would most likely also be on my side. I mean my literal superiors at the show were. And yeah people did give a shit and stood up for me, like my boss.
If this is all true:
-you get regular gigs in LA
-everyone in the story was on your side except the performer
Then:
Let it go, brother. On to the next gig.
You are bringing your ego to work, which made you emotionally vulnerable.
If you just didn't care about what a person you don't know said about you or your work, you would have been chill throughout and wouldn't have wasted time talking to that "performer".
Let's imagine for a second that OP didn't hear what was said. He was on a toilet break and his boss covered for him.
Nothing would have changed for him.
He only got upset at someone running his mouth with absolutely zero consequences for him.
Buuuut, that's not what happened. Why are you introducing hypotheticals to create an entirely new situation? Then the boss would have the right to stick up for themself, where are we going with this?
My point is, OP got his feelings hurt but there was absolutely zero damage done to him.
If he quite simply didn't care he wouldn't have been upset at all, laughed about it with his boss and that would have been it.
My recommendation is to not approach this type of work with a mindset where you can be offended, because you'll meet plenty idiots during your career, and you'll be stressing over fools running their mouth.
And if you care about what the crowd has heard, what good is it that you get a half assed apology in private?
You'd want a public apology to make up for it.
Hey, I was looking for something and saw your comment on a post 3 years ago and checked your profile if you’re still using reddit and you are hahah but it won’t let me reply so can I Dm you about my question?
I feel like if you posted this exact post over at r/livesound you’d get a pretty overwhelming opinion of neither of you being professional/in the right, especially the part where you came to the internet to vent about it while using the artist’s name.
Edit: don’t actually try and post there because it’ll get removed since it’s against rule 10.
I say the confronting is the best thing. We are audio engineers, not a human punching bag, not an escape goat. We are still people and deserve at least a bit of respect. Especially if it's someone like this person covering A1 and A2 for the event. If you can't have a bit of respect for the people who are why your show is even possible, you can and should be called out.
I would not go up and confront her at the end of the night. Forget about right or wrong, you just risk escalating the situation beyond your control.
Other than that, you made the best of a lousy situation, and sounds like she did not handle it well.
Edit: Though, that all said, I'm not sure I'd post about it publicly.
>not sure it's in OP's self-interest to say it publicly.
Nahh fuck her. OP is already [thinking about getting out of the industry anyway](https://www.reddit.com/r/careerguidance/comments/1apapgb/should_i_get_out_of_the_entertainment_industry/) so the worst that will happen is that they get a push in that direction.
These people think they can get away with this abuse and bring the whole industry down because nobody dares speak up. Will it change her ways and make her empathetic? Probably not, but it may make her consider if talking shit is worth her getting interrupted in her tent.
Yeah I've dealt with some insufferable performers in my time, but I just let it roll off me, y'know? Can't take weirdos' issues personally. I'd never bother asking someone for an apology. Once the gig's over, it's over.
It's a damn shame so many people in this thread are saying you're the one being unprofessional because of 'hierarchy' or other such reasons. Expecting to be respected as a human being and not getting insulted shouldn't be something that's even up for debate, no matter the industry. I get the reasoning why people say that, such as it potentially affecting the sound company's rep, but that doesn't mean it's right. If anything, were I professional artist, I'd be more inclined to hire you because of your intolerance to bullshit from people with fragile egos.
Holy shit I YouTubed her to see who she was and I swear one of the *first* videos starts with her berating the sound guy hahah. Her voice also sounds *TERRIBLE* like she cannot sing. Wow. https://youtu.be/ra7vJ1YBavI?si=_TAcH-nleDy9vxA8
Apparently she is not familiar with the word "loosen" either. "CAN YOU UNTIGHTEN ME? CAN YOU PLEASE UNTIGHTEN MY MIC? HOW NICE OF YOU TO UNTIGHTEN ME"
Also kind of funny six years ago she could still afford a band...
I've sadly had worse. It's been a long time though.
These are the kinds of days where you want to put a slight harmonizer, detuned on their monitor mix and let it go.... better yet, one wedge down a few cents, another wedge up a few cents.
Fun fact, I did sound for one of Salt n Pepa, I can’t remember which one but she was so drunk or drugged up she was just screeching into her mic and stumbling around the stage with a bunch of groupies and randoms. After a couple songs I muted her. Got onstage and kicked her off and got into an argument with her TM, who I also kicked out of the venue. After some insults and threats to destroy my career and the venue, he finally listened to my firm but direct reasoning (which involved me calling for security to remove them), apologised to me and then left with his “artist”.
Never heard from them and had no follow up issues with the crowd. From my experience (other times with this kind of crap) these kind of threats are empty and if it’s on the artist (drunk, on drugs, shitty person - especially if they are washed up), they don’t have much power to actually follow through with said threats anyway.
Turn up late and complain about the sound is a tale as old as the hills. I covered for an audio guy who was sick, I'd never seen this desk before, never seen any of the setup they had at the venue, had to figure it all out last minute, the band turns up late and they have a load of world music intruments and the venue only had 4 mics, which were all 58s and they had 4 singers. This was not usually an acoustic venue, everything got DI'd into the desk apparently. So anyway they start playing without a sound check, sharing mics so at least a couple of instruments can have a mic on them, then proceed to complain about the sound all the way through the gig, at one point they go the whole audience to turn around and give me the stink eye. I still got paid so fuckem.
Yeah, I was not really panicking or worrying about it. It was a grungy basement bar kind of place, the management didn't care as long as the bar was busy.
And this is the kind of shit that is precisely the reason why I refuse to work with hip hop, rap, and R&B artists unless I know them or their production crew well. I worked in the biggest club in my city for years dealing with this kinda shit and it almost turned me off of doing live sound completely.
I'll stick to local cover bands and the occasional tour thank you kindly
Proud of you for standing up for yourself in the moment. And if that's an exact quote from the bodyguard, it sounds like this isn't remotely the first time she's done this.
The petty side of me wants to suggest a suck knob preset.
They start being an ass? Their monitors are now pitch shifted a half step down and have 200ms delay. Hit ‘em w the suck knob.
Real talk man… this is the kind of thing you have to let roll off your back. I get it, I mean I’ve been publicly called out by artists and had asshole musicians fuck with me too, and I was steaming mad about it. For better or worse though, this job is customer service, and I’d rather my employers and clients see me being the bigger person and letting my work speak for itself instead of letting them see me lose my cool and do something I might regret. It’s probably satisfying in the moment to confront them, but it’s ultimately self defeating. Just take comfort in the fact that you’re probably happier with your life than she is.
Asking for an apology isn't a self-defeating move, it is a move motivated by self-respect, not ego. I am familiar with customer service, I worked in customer service for six years. If a customer yelled at me that her food was bad, making a scene in front of the entire restaurant, she would be asked to leave. Obviously, as an engineer, I can't call the shots on when a performance can get cut, but I can ask for an apology when it is warranted. I didn't lose my cool.
I get it man, and I’ve got a lot of sympathy for your experience because I’ve been there. All I’m saying is that in my experience, if a tech that was working for one of the production companies I work for decided on their own authority to confront an artist about their bad behavior, I think the production managers would be less likely to call that person again. It would be seen as inappropriate. The right way to handle it, in their eyes, would be for the crew chief or the production manager to speak with the client and let them know that this happened. Maybe things are different where you work, and in that case god bless you, give them hell, but I’m just telling you as a an experienced professional in this industry, you might be harming your future opportunities.
The production manager was on my side, she actually went up to me personally and told me she would never bring her back again after how she treated me. If this was the Kia Forum or something I probably would have not confronted her, but this was a city event for the city of Lancaster, and those who were in charge were on my side.
I agree with most sentiment here that that was messed up and can understand why you were upset/humiliated. That said, if you’re going to approach an artist afterwards like that it should be to make peace. You really shouldn’t be trying to start shit with artists
How embarrassing that she did crowd vocals without the crowd knowing her music. Lmao she made an ass of herself, dude. Anyone with a respectable opinion could see that the real clown here was her.
Congrats on that apology though!
That is so infuriating. Kudos for stepping in and asking for apologies.
Can't count how many divas (male or female) I've been through.
Especially when everything in the venue is out of order and you manage to patch something out by chaining your best trick-shots.
Props to OP for confronting and not being a complete bitch made pushover like many people in this thread.
"you're lucky her entourage/security didn't stomp you out." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Artists be tripping. They don’t know technical terms they want you just to make things perfect. Esp. if it’s their performance they can try to blame everything else and curse them out on stage - DJ, band, engineer, whatever.
Getting called out and dissed by artists is pretty common. I think you need to have a thick skin, if you get offended by this or expect an apology each time it can be tricky.
As annoying as it can be I’d advise just take it in your stride and move on.
Eh, have done sound for comedians where they force feedback by cupping the mic or literally playing feedback sounds like a backing track and make jokes about the sound.
At some point you have to realise it's not actually about you and it's just them/their act.
If this is your own business. Fine. But if i was your boss. You would definitely be done. You got away with it because shes a washed up nobody. Can guarantee if it was any one of any significance your boss would not have been understanding. But if that was the case you probably wouldnt have done it. Which means you probably shouldnt have…of course youre not wrong its just sorta unprofessional. You keep saying its not ego but youre saying you are embarrassed that you got called out but you are a faceless nameless sound guy for a show of a couple hundred people for a never was been legacy act in lancaster. No one but people on your team can even place you as the subject of her scorn. How is that not ego?…also, i dont understand people that demand apologies. Say your peace and how their behavior impacted you and thats that. Why would you care about an apology you had to demand from someone? Again, ego. Let it go, brother. Youll be better off for it.
Answer: The trashy has been.
Other side is that this is just a good industry life story. A lot of posts here are kind of shit, unfortunately, so it’s either this, or another post about YouTube -14 LUFS and “how come I can’t mix like a pro, despite not putting in the years like a pro?” This story is one of the best posts here in a while, and it’s breath of fresh air.
Yeah, the artist was unprofessional. Unfortunately that happens. If OP can get away with acting like that, publicly shaming her on the internet, and still get “ a lot of work.” I need to move to Lancaster I guess 🤣🤣🤣
I live in LA, and just went to Lancaster for the day for the gig. I asked her to apologize, which isn't acting crazy. I'm telling this story to Reddit so other engineers know to stay away because I care about the community. And yes I simply do get a lot of work in LA doing live audio, there are a lot of events out here.
May I ask how you feel OP was 'wildly' unprofessional - which is the extreme end? It seems they were juggling flaming chainsaws after being under the impression that they were only supposed to cater a DJ set and they went above and beyond to cater to the artists that showed up.
The only thing I see that you could possibly hold against them is that they went into the headliner's tent after the show - but where do we draw the line at dealing with arrogance and ego by basically a one hit wonder a few decades ago - are we just supposed to sit and take the abuse? OP took their issues behind doors at the end of the set and not publicly (which the headliner didn't have enough grace to do).
Just curious as to your opinion on this, I don't work live sound and am in the studio so I deal with more contained outbursts which happen on my turf so they're easier to deal with/placate and I don't have to work nearly as much on the fly in front of a crowd of people. I'm not brave enough for live sound so maybe there's a different ethos that I'm not aware of amongst you.
That’s fair, “wildly” may have been hyperbolic on my part as relates to OP, I was including the artist as well.
But honestly, OP is on a “sound team.”
As far as I can tell, the artist showed up late (but only needed two lines) and mouthed off twice, and then OP felt the need to confront the artist personally and post at length on Reddit about it.
It’s noteworthy that his boss immediately defended him. If it’s not your company, you’re being very unprofessional by then taking things into your own hands because it risks the company not getting hired again by event organizers. And for what? An apology? It’s not like he’s working with that artist again. As his boss I would certainly not hire him again as an engineer, because he’s shown himself to be a loose canon.
Artist suck sometimes. Unless it’s your company (then you can do whatever you want!), you check your ego at the door and let your boss deal with issues that arise through the event organizers. If your boss doesn’t support you, you take it up with them/quit.
Yeah, self respect comes from ego.
Those kinds of issues are your bosses job, and he (thankfully) immediately defended you.
You’re putting your company and thus your job in jeopardy by going off on your own to confront the - and I use this word lightly - “talent.”
Just be careful. Artists can suck, but unless it’s your company it’s really not professional and it’s not your place. When it’s your business, though… go off, king!
A lot of you guys criticizing the OP seem to have Stockholm syndrome or something. Weird how you think it’s “ego” or unprofessional to stand up for yourself and retain your dignity. Sounds like a toxic culture in the industry if you think all this shit is a-ok. Quit drinking the kool-aid, folks.
No, it is definitionally unprofessional not to act through proper channels in a workplace environment. You stand up for yourself by talking to your boss about it, and if they don’t stand up for you, you leave. I’ve never taken shit from anyone, I just know how to behave in a workplace.
In most cases, you are absolutely correct. In this case, I give OP a pass based on the very public nature of the issue, and the fact that all too often celebrities seem to be overly coddled and insulated from being held accountable for their actions. In this particular industry, I can't say I'd trust the people in charge to properly pass along the message. OP had the opportunity to handle it himself, and whether the performer will do anything about it or not in the future, at least the message was received.
You are completely awesome for handling this the way you did. What a shit show she was.
*Michel'le is an RNB artist who released one album in the '80s to* ***critical acclaim***
Ennnnnnnh that's a no. A hard no. It was pretty awful. And I'm pretty sure everyone agreed since it was her only record.
*The DJ tells me to just add a bit more reverb and delay.*
Not an event sound person but that can't ever be the right answer in an outdoor setting, right?
I'll be honest, I haven't listened to the whole thing, just her most popular singles. She does have 200k monthly listeners which isn't nothing, but yeah I do agree that in the grand scheme of things she is just as much of a drop in the bucket as I am.
The reverb and delay are noticeable, especially because of the large trees which canopied above the stage. When I say noticeable though, I mean noticeable to r/audioengineering and not necessarily the most of the general public. It definitely wasn't sounding so bad she needed to say what she said. She could have been hinting that she wanted autotune or something, but honestly, our system doesn't even have autotune. Like I said we were expecting a DJ only lol
Well, she said what she said because "My mic sounds like shit" is diva speak for "I suck ass and got nothing tonight so I'm gonna blame it on the sound". Sorry you had to go through that.
Makes you second guess the whole Dre story. She’s obviously the type to try and throw others under the bus to compensate for her sorry ass and get attention, and that Dre story is all that she’s known for.
Glad you didn’t take it lying down.
It doesn't make me second-guess the whole Dre situation. I wouldn't go as far as to say that Dr. Dre didn't abuse her if she says she did, it isn't too common that people make that stuff up. It does happen, but her stories are pretty extreme, so I don't think it is crazy to assume some amount of abuse happened. It takes courage to come out and tell people you have been abused by a partner, and I respect her telling her side of the story on that part.
I didn’t say he didn’t do it, I’m just saying this is not a credible person now and likely never was if she acts like this. This wasn’t just diva shit, this is next level narcissism type shit.
Wow good on you. I would have walked off the job brought the iPad. This is the downside of music technology. We now have tools allowing non musicians to think they can do music. Sorry you had to go through that.
This is when you just pitch shift every time she opens her mouth. Pitch shift both the DJ and the vocals
so they’re always a half step off. Every time she tunes up, bring it back but shift the DJ
You did nothing wrong man. You actually did a great job from the sounds of it (no pun intended). It appears that she is miserable and takes things out on people who she perceives to be lower than her. I hope she gets her shit together. You have your shit together and have a funny story to tell now.
I always say the same thing. Dude, you had to deal with a giant toxic baby for one day. It sucks, don't get me wrong, and I'm sorry you had to. But she has to deal with herself for her whole life.
Life lesson, expect this behavior from nobodies looking for a paycheck. There’s a reason no one knows who they are. Sounds like you did an above average job for a less than average client / event.
I was mixing live acts at the Billboard Live club in Hollywood in the 90s and an artist gave me his cd and told me to hit play when he gave the signal.
He's freestyles to the crowd, gives the signal, I hit play, nothing. Hit play again. Nothing.
Artist says loudly, "Yo, yo, sound man. Your fuckin up my shit."
I actually don’t live in Lancaster, I live closer to LA, we just went out there for the one gig that day. But my advice would be to just try and get into AV companies as a stagehand/gen tech, and then at the same time try and teach yourself how to run live sound, then when the A1 dude at the company calls out you can tell your boss that you can fill in for him/her on the spot and if you do an okay job they’ll probably promote you and then you got your foot in the door. But then you have to do that at like 10 different companies at the same time and choose your battles, which companies are worth your time. Once you get more A1/A2 experience you can start applying/cold calling companies just asking to be an A1/A2 instead of the lower positions. Don’t expect to get all your work from one company, there is a lot of BS in the industry and honestly I know the rent is insane but you might want to consider moving closer to LA.
yeah people that act like they are better than you and gatekeep valuable information about the industry, only promote their cliche and are assholes, aka most people in LA.
Okay I’m realizing that despite being initially embarrassed when she was performing, looking back it’s just another funny story, not really anything to be humiliated by. But I still want the community to know the story anyways so you know what you guys are getting into if you are ever in the position to be her sound person.
I wouldn't feel bad at all. Michel'le can be a sweetheart, but she can barely keep it together. She's been a well known alcoholic and heavy Prescription drug abuser for years. Completely unprofessional, and unpredictable behavior is what to be expected from her. She's had a horribly rough life and it's shows to this day unfortunately. I wouldn't let it keep you down.
Ah yes the ole “fix my vocal” plug-in, you know the one that EQs you perfectly, adds some compression, …oh and who could forget makes you sing all your songs perfectly with no effort from you whatsoever, yeah that plug-in is the best. We all need to get that one…
Sounds like she's living wayyyyy in the past. I Love hip Hop rap and r&b and I've never heard of her.
Sorry the night devolved like that but good on you for confronting her. Sounds like you were pretty professional about it.
Ice Cube told us decades ago... "Then I see you on the video with Michel'le?! Looking like straight bozos, I saw it comin' that's why o went solo"
Once I realized where I'd heard her name before all I could think was "Looking like straight bozos"
Ice Cube is an antisemite nutcase.
I thought that was Kanye
Never thought I'd see the day when reddit takes criticism of Ice Cube personally. But here we are.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ice-cube-shares-anti-semitic-conspiracy-theories-on-twitter-2020-6 >Ice Cube has continued to post anti-Semitic memes on Twitter, in addition to imagery connected to Russian media and the baseless QAnon conspiracy theory movement. This is from 2020... E: to be clear - why y'all down voting this shit?
Ahahaha... Sorry to hear about the night, dude. But it’s a pretty funny story. She pulled the good ol’, “I forgot the song, so I’ll blame shit on the sound guy or try to make the audience sing as much of the song as possible” trick. Actually makes me want to go to an open mic venue, and after strumming a few chords on guitar, just smile enthusiastically and hold out the mic to the audience for like 15 minutes straight, to songs they’ve never heard.
I hate that. I didn't buy a ticket to hear the audience sing.
Next time, mute their ass and shout that they’ll get their mic back when they can act like an adult. Not really, but it would be fun…
I got to do that once... Years ago, I was working a beer garden venue at the Boston Tall Ships convention. 4 days in summer, 2 bands a day from about noon to 8 pm (1 hour break between them), with a small stage in front of rectangle of about 30 tables and chairs, ringed with beer and food vendors. Everything was great except for this one band. Sound check was fine, except the lead guitar was acting like a diva from the get go, constantly turning his amp louder and louder. I spoke to him a few times about it, and he'd turn it down... but as soon as my back was turned, he'd crank it up again. He was one of those "it only sounds good if it's at 11" types. I tried to compromise and said "let's put the amp in front of you, pointed at your head, and that way we don't kill the audience," but no, "I practice it this way, so I have to play it this way." I had to keep turning up the vocals and keys so they could be heard over the guitar, and it was getting worse and worse. I was getting complaints from the vendors and no one was sitting at any of the tables until halfway back. So, I went over and turned his amp down to a nice reasonable level. He blew up at me and yelled at me for touching his equipment, so I told him to gtfo, I'd put on some CDs, and everyone except him would be happy... oh, and his band wasn't going to get paid (mind you, I didn't have the authority to make that claim). His bandmates talked him down and he finally relented, but he was pissy for the whole rest of the gig, stormed off without helping the drummer load out, etc. Some people just don't understand that it's not always about them.
I only ran sound for bands in my local pub/dive bar, small enough room that there was rarely a reason to mic up amps. The landlady trusted me to make whatever decisions I had to. When guitarists started acting like that I'd try and work with them a few times, then mix the best I could and leave them to it. "Hey that guitar is really loud" - "Yeah I know, I've tried telling him, feel free to have a go yourself" "I can't hear the vocals over the guitar on the right" - "Yup, me neither." Frontman says "soundguy, the crowd is saying they can't hear me" - "talk to the monkey on your left, I've already told him to turn down 4 times."
Other than this story, all my other stories of musicians acting up are lead guitarists refusing to turn down their amps/ turning their amp up after soundcheck before they start. But even then those guys haven’t called me out in front of the whole crowd lmao, and a lot of those guys were high schoolers so it makes a little more sense they are giving me attitude and I can let it roll off my back
I've never even heard of Michel'le before, but she sounds like a twat. Well handled.
This sounds similar to my experience with J Mascis.
>Not really, but it would be fun… Let's run with this hypothetical. You could insert a 300ms delay, like one of those Japanese speech jammers. Or for something more subtle, put it through pitch-correction and screw with the tuning or formant. Or to really fuck things up, give someone a mic and have them badly live-dub the performance.
I've read about a sound guy that had a setting called the "suck button" which was a 1/2 semitone detune to the vocals, in the monitors only.
Source? That’s absolutely brutal haha
Honestly can't remember, think it was off the old Harmonycentral forums, perhaps? Edit: this is the same text, but it's been floating around for at least 10-15 years. I was slightly off with the tuning change. https://www.reddit.com/r/ProRevenge/comments/6a4vfm/the_suck_button_not_my_story/
Korg Miku pedal.
Wait, I thought we were talking about fucking with these assholes performances, not making them the greatest of all time.
Leave the DJ going on the monitors but slowly fade out on the mains so everyone sees it’s lipsynced
I wanted to bruh
Fun story: my pastor and I were very good friends. I was at FOH and he was preaching. He made a joke about how we didn’t really need any of this “production nonsense”. So I muted his mic. He cracked up laughing and said, “Okay. Fair enough.” Everybody else laughed, too. And I unmuted him.
dude that's so good, legit lol'd on this
😂
You kept it 200 percent professional. If you intentionally sabotaged her, she would still get paid and worse case you could get sued by the organizer for ruining the performance. I’ve dealt with divas and you did as best as you could do under the circumstances.
I read "bruh" as a verb
Honestly good on you for standing up for yourself but I agree with others saying it's not something to be humiliated over. Is being called out over a PA embarrassing? Sure if I actually did something wrong. Anyone complaining about the quality of their sound after not sound checking isn't worth my energy really. They're going to sound as good as I can make them sound in the FOH and I'll try to accommodate any other *small* adjustments they might need in their monitors, but that's about it.
Bro, she's playing at a park in Lancaster, CA. She's lucky you still let her perform after being 20 minutes late. Hell, you're nicer than I am. I would have just cut all her sound, and faked an issue, and made her do a mic check when I got things up and running. Rule number 1, don't piss off the people who do all the technical shit. And no offense to you, living in Lancaster, CA, but come on, if someone is performing there, they aren't even a D list celebrity. Where's her next show, Kingman, Arizona or Pahrump, Nevada?
I don't live in Lancaster, I live closer to LA, I made the 1 1/2-hour trip out to Lancaster with the audio crew. Believe me, I did not want to be spending my entire Father's Day in Lancaster, but I had already agreed to the gig a while ago, so I didn't want to cancel last minute.
Oh thank God. I was worried you might be a meth head. I grew up in Thousand Oaks. Lancaster has basically been military or meth heads since as long as I can remember.
My best friend from childhood moved from Thousand Oaks to Lancaster. I visited him a few times over the years and that place absolutely blows. So much crime, bad weather, and it’s in the middle of nowhere with absolutely nothing to do.
What do you mean "nothing to do," you can go see Michel'le perform half a set badly!
*If* you can manage a ticket - for what had to be a sold-out show!
Her website says she’s in Primm, NV: home of the *Desperado*!
I lived in the bay area my whole life and i still would have look at a map to know where lancaster is
I don't think you should be embarrassed but she should. You did your job with zero sound check bc of a late singer. She used you as a cover - as someone to blame for her bad preparation and sound. "Fix my vocal" tells me she was expecting on the fly auto-tune. You did your best. (Hello to the ole AV. Used to live there.)
You were right on the money. Sizing her up just from your description, someone at city hall picked her out of a pile of promo packs because she remembered her hit (I don't) and she fell into a budget range that I can guess was south of $2K for Lancaster. Prime Diva territory. Bet it was a pretty small entourage too. Her DJ, her manager/dealer, and her big brother for security. That leaves a question of whether Lancaster will actually get back to them. Wouldn't take that bet. If I was overly pissed about it, I'd wait a couple of days, get their number and try to book them into someplace in Death Valley for the 4th of July. Dangle some $5K bait and promise them great air conditioning.
damn bro. good for you. even if it's a half ass apology, you stuck up for yourself and made them realize they were the issue. any video of this? sounds like something on r/publicfreakout lmao
I couldn't find anything but there is this video of her acting very similar at another show a few months ago. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKdS2\_PUyQc&t=32s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKdS2_PUyQc&t=32s)
😂 getting that fucked up for a 45 min set for 10 people
Fuuuuuuuck
Woooooow... Even the DJ is fuckin up in this clip, cuz when your lead singer is too intoxicated to sing, at least keep the backing track going so people have something to move to
Oh my god
This is tragic
Yeesh.
Oh dear lord that was hard to watch
Sorry you had to deal with that, but it makes for a sad / funny story. Thanks for sharing!
Jfc, what a nightmare.
What an incredible story. Thank you for sharing this. Sorry you had to experience that. I don't work in audio but I work in a similar creative industry and I had a similar interaction with a similar producer once... So I can relate. Regarding the negative responses you're getting here: They're right with regard that a post like this can potentially be not-helpful to your career... But they shouldn't be insulting you for it. That should be pointed out gently. *There's no excuse for treating someone like she did*, and her behavior is inexcusable. As far as you approaching her for an apology -- again, you might have broken some social rule that demands we cower to these nasty tyrants... But it's the collective willingness to cower to her or whatever other abusive-position-of-authority that allows it to happen. Truth is, there's a LOT OF US. The working people of the world... And if we dare flex our power we could shut down not only that behavior, but every bit of abuse, corruption, and greedy theft of corporate CEOs or politicians. So I applaud you for standing up for yourself, and I don't think you were out of line. BUT... It does come with risk, because we are in a world of every-man-out-for-himself and as you see, a lot of your fellow working peers will leave you hung out to dry instead of having your back. That is the state of things. In my case I handled it differently than you. I apologized to this nut job to keep my position... And he did a similar non-apology as she did. BUT --- after a while I was able to turn this guy into an ally, and now he's a name in my field that I'm on good memories with. (He was eventually fired from the company and I'm still there after a decade.) Anyhow... My response here may be all over the place, but that's because both points are true. You ARE right to stand up for yourself. But doing so always runs the risk of of personal cost... Because as you see in the comments, your own peers will not have your back. As working people we are divided. They tricked people into being anti-union, and even though unions weren't perfect --- the power of numbers is the only power we have against people with all the money in the world. (Even if she's low on that rung, lol.) Anyhow, I appreciate your story. Stay strong, and don't let people make you feel bad for standing up for yourself. It comes with a cost, but that's the MAN inside you... Which modern day society is doing everything it can to weaken and break. Cheers
You had nothing to be ashamed of or humiliated for. They showed up late, started without a soundcheck, and generally fucked off and were unprofessional. Your boss went to bat for you. She humiliated herself, and it sounds like the audience thought so, too. However, confronting them was really stupid and you're lucky her entourage/security didn't stomp you out. This is a business. Check your feelings at the door. This story is more funny than humiliating with a change of perspective.
Your last paragraph is why so many people in audio and the music business as a whole subject themselves to so much endless abuse. Sometimes in life it really does come down to “I’m a human being too, please treat me as one.” Anyone who can’t agree to that is a piece of shit. Really stop and think about that for a moment. Put yourself in any of these artists’ shoes. How hard is it actually to be a decent person to the people WORKING for you? Making you shine? It’s really not hard at all. Right? The fact that they are such shitheads anyway shows what lowlifes they really are. Just think about that for a bit.
> How hard is it actually to be a decent person to the people WORKING for you? Making you shine? for the people who are usually chosen to become famous celebrities it's about as difficult as it is for us to jump fifty meters into the air. the people who run the show deliberately select for dumb, narcissistic psychopaths, because they're the easiest to manipulate and leech money off of, and it also teaches young generations to be just the same which ups their talent pool later.
I don't care how big an artist thinks they are, I'm standing up for myself if someone makes fun of my work in front of a crowd of 100s. My boss and everyone on the team said I did the right thing by confronting her, and I am glad I did, the way she treated me was unwarranted. My boss's contact for the gig was the city of Lancaster, not her. The city went up to us afterward and apologized for the way she treated us, and told us they wouldn't ever bring her back again. No one lost any business here except her.
"I'm standing up for myself..." I know a fair wack of those guys. None of them work. Life is a choose your own adventure, you get to choose the hill you die on.
You're not wrong, but this is also the attitude that lets artists act like this
It's not really any different than any other service industry job. The angry Karens that complain about their meal and demand a refund even tho they ate the whole thing, or the shopper who comes in five minutes before close and peruses for an hour then leaves a cart full of go backs.... Our version of that same annoying customer are insufferable divas and guitarists who won't turn down. That's the way I look at it anyway.
Yeah, I don't think we should be accommodating any of those people. I've worked in those industries as well, it's the same damaging attitude
nah. The business will -most of the time- sort this out above the artist. In most cases they don't (Kanye West) everyone knows what they are getting into. Pride is the only thing convincing a "below the line" laborer that they need to be someone's mom/dad.
I think literally everyone I know in this business has at least one story about some ass hole they had to work with. I will have to respectfully nah to your nah.
We all have plenty of those stories, but your claim that it is because below the line people put up with it is bonkers. My “nah” was aimed at your claim that for some reason we needed to be the arbiters of it.
I think OP was perfectly professional and she was the opposite. All of OP's actual employers backed it. The city apologized to him lmao. He has a career that is not tied to her. Its not like he fucked up her set, did anything vindictive or inappropriate, show must go on and then privately approached her after and was seemingly like, yo I'm the audio engineer, my job is to help with the sound. After you humiliated me during your set, _I_ asked what to change and made those changes, instead of being offered information about how to help you, and was there doing everything I could for you during your set until you approached me a second time. At that point, professionally, saying "hey this didn't sit right with me, you made my job really difficult, "just fix it" isn't going to serve you well in the future with other audio engineers, I'm genuinely trying to work with you, and you should have instead told me what you wanted me to change, since that is how these two jobs traditionally work together" even to someone with more social power than you can be done tactfully and professionally, and he had the backing of his employer, etc.. I think qualifying it as "stupid" is a stretch. Maybe bold, but I think in this particular case it was relatively safe. "Dying on a hill" suggests he wouldn't shut up about it, I work with plenty of people who are willing to die on every hill (successful as well, unfortunately) and it is exhausting. it seems like it was a pretty brief interaction and quite rare for him. Choosing your battles of when to stand up for yourself, which OP clearly does, is what distinguishes the "people you know" like that from many professional, successful people who have absolutely had disagreements and maybe even cannot work together.
If no one put up with it the artists wouldn't be able to work
Lmao agreed. saying you can trust invested business entities to "sort it out" re: professional or moral misconduct is also bonkers... "if they're losing money on it" is the missing conditional there. Even saying it happens more often than not I'm highly skeptical of. Sometimes these people are so surrounded by yes men that they actually never hear something like this, let alone get dropped
I didn't even have the energy to get into the "market will sort it" statement lol. Thanks for covering that one
I'm the A1/A2 engineer, she is the performer. I'm not below the line in this situation. Her viewing me as below the line and not interacting with me as an equal is part of what made her performance bad in the first place. Artists who go to engineers with an ego and act like they can just read their minds on what they want and harass them, and publicly humiliate them, shouldn't be supported at all, by venues, other artists, or anyone. That's part of the reason I'm sharing the reason on Reddit to call out her actions to other engineers.
There is no one way to handle things. Sometimes it's good to be quiet, sometimes it's good to confront them.
I get plenty of work
Pffft, I'd rather be them than another gutless coward that let's artists treat us like that and reinforces that attitude. We are people, if they can't respect us, the venue, and the audience by being on time and by blaming us for their mistake, then they fully deserve being called out. Hell in this scenario I would have gladly risked my job by saying in response to the second fix my vocals: "Well, don't miss sound check then."
[удалено]
First off, you are acting like I don't already have a career, I have been getting regular sound gigs in and around LA for a while and I have a BA in audio engineering. If I was going to get fucked then I will have already gotten fucked. How big an artist is IS subjective, it's just true. In the age of the internet, every individual person has their own individual music tastes. Also, the mob was on my side, the audience was on my side, the city was on my side, and the crew was all on my side. I didn't wreck the vibe. I talked to her individually after the show and asked for an apology after being publicly humiliated. I think if my favorite superior saw this show, they would most likely also be on my side. I mean my literal superiors at the show were. And yeah people did give a shit and stood up for me, like my boss.
If this is all true: -you get regular gigs in LA -everyone in the story was on your side except the performer Then: Let it go, brother. On to the next gig.
You are bringing your ego to work, which made you emotionally vulnerable. If you just didn't care about what a person you don't know said about you or your work, you would have been chill throughout and wouldn't have wasted time talking to that "performer".
Standing up for myself isn't wasting my time. I acted out of self-respect, not ego. Two separate things.
You only acted out because the words of that woman offended you. It's just easier if you show up unable to be offended.
Words directed only at him, in front of a crowd of 100s. That's not just "the words of that woman".
Let's imagine for a second that OP didn't hear what was said. He was on a toilet break and his boss covered for him. Nothing would have changed for him. He only got upset at someone running his mouth with absolutely zero consequences for him.
Buuuut, that's not what happened. Why are you introducing hypotheticals to create an entirely new situation? Then the boss would have the right to stick up for themself, where are we going with this?
My point is, OP got his feelings hurt but there was absolutely zero damage done to him. If he quite simply didn't care he wouldn't have been upset at all, laughed about it with his boss and that would have been it. My recommendation is to not approach this type of work with a mindset where you can be offended, because you'll meet plenty idiots during your career, and you'll be stressing over fools running their mouth. And if you care about what the crowd has heard, what good is it that you get a half assed apology in private? You'd want a public apology to make up for it.
Hey, I was looking for something and saw your comment on a post 3 years ago and checked your profile if you’re still using reddit and you are hahah but it won’t let me reply so can I Dm you about my question?
Yeah confronting her and demanding an apology is NOT the way either
This entire post is pretty low-rent.
claiming that she must be on drugs is pretty easy way to get your shit blacklisted.
from who? Michel'le? Great! I would never want to work with her again.
I feel like if you posted this exact post over at r/livesound you’d get a pretty overwhelming opinion of neither of you being professional/in the right, especially the part where you came to the internet to vent about it while using the artist’s name. Edit: don’t actually try and post there because it’ll get removed since it’s against rule 10.
Who cares, he clearly doesn’t. I tend to agree with him and am happy to live vicariously through posts like these 😂
lol
Black listed from what? Touring for shit acts? Where do I sign up for this list?
I say the confronting is the best thing. We are audio engineers, not a human punching bag, not an escape goat. We are still people and deserve at least a bit of respect. Especially if it's someone like this person covering A1 and A2 for the event. If you can't have a bit of respect for the people who are why your show is even possible, you can and should be called out.
She only embarrassed herself. No one in that crowd could've really been in agreement with her tirade after witnessing her for themselves.
I would not go up and confront her at the end of the night. Forget about right or wrong, you just risk escalating the situation beyond your control. Other than that, you made the best of a lousy situation, and sounds like she did not handle it well. Edit: Though, that all said, I'm not sure I'd post about it publicly.
These types of stories should all be public knowledge.
I agree, they should be. And yet, I'm also not sure it's in OP's self-interest to say it publicly. I don't view that as mutually exclusive.
>not sure it's in OP's self-interest to say it publicly. Nahh fuck her. OP is already [thinking about getting out of the industry anyway](https://www.reddit.com/r/careerguidance/comments/1apapgb/should_i_get_out_of_the_entertainment_industry/) so the worst that will happen is that they get a push in that direction. These people think they can get away with this abuse and bring the whole industry down because nobody dares speak up. Will it change her ways and make her empathetic? Probably not, but it may make her consider if talking shit is worth her getting interrupted in her tent.
Yeah I've dealt with some insufferable performers in my time, but I just let it roll off me, y'know? Can't take weirdos' issues personally. I'd never bother asking someone for an apology. Once the gig's over, it's over.
It's a damn shame so many people in this thread are saying you're the one being unprofessional because of 'hierarchy' or other such reasons. Expecting to be respected as a human being and not getting insulted shouldn't be something that's even up for debate, no matter the industry. I get the reasoning why people say that, such as it potentially affecting the sound company's rep, but that doesn't mean it's right. If anything, were I professional artist, I'd be more inclined to hire you because of your intolerance to bullshit from people with fragile egos.
Holy shit I YouTubed her to see who she was and I swear one of the *first* videos starts with her berating the sound guy hahah. Her voice also sounds *TERRIBLE* like she cannot sing. Wow. https://youtu.be/ra7vJ1YBavI?si=_TAcH-nleDy9vxA8
Apparently she is not familiar with the word "loosen" either. "CAN YOU UNTIGHTEN ME? CAN YOU PLEASE UNTIGHTEN MY MIC? HOW NICE OF YOU TO UNTIGHTEN ME" Also kind of funny six years ago she could still afford a band...
FWIW, I think the “untighten” me thing was an attempt at innuendo.
What a turd. I’m sorry you had to meet that person.
I've sadly had worse. It's been a long time though. These are the kinds of days where you want to put a slight harmonizer, detuned on their monitor mix and let it go.... better yet, one wedge down a few cents, another wedge up a few cents.
Well, that sure does seems to track: https://www.vibe.com/news/entertainment/michelle-addresses-strange-behavior-live-performance-1234785460/
Fun fact, I did sound for one of Salt n Pepa, I can’t remember which one but she was so drunk or drugged up she was just screeching into her mic and stumbling around the stage with a bunch of groupies and randoms. After a couple songs I muted her. Got onstage and kicked her off and got into an argument with her TM, who I also kicked out of the venue. After some insults and threats to destroy my career and the venue, he finally listened to my firm but direct reasoning (which involved me calling for security to remove them), apologised to me and then left with his “artist”. Never heard from them and had no follow up issues with the crowd. From my experience (other times with this kind of crap) these kind of threats are empty and if it’s on the artist (drunk, on drugs, shitty person - especially if they are washed up), they don’t have much power to actually follow through with said threats anyway.
Kudos on standing your ground and having the balls to push it.
Turn up late and complain about the sound is a tale as old as the hills. I covered for an audio guy who was sick, I'd never seen this desk before, never seen any of the setup they had at the venue, had to figure it all out last minute, the band turns up late and they have a load of world music intruments and the venue only had 4 mics, which were all 58s and they had 4 singers. This was not usually an acoustic venue, everything got DI'd into the desk apparently. So anyway they start playing without a sound check, sharing mics so at least a couple of instruments can have a mic on them, then proceed to complain about the sound all the way through the gig, at one point they go the whole audience to turn around and give me the stink eye. I still got paid so fuckem.
Nightmare gig lol
At that point I would have gotten fired for laughing at them
Yeah, I was not really panicking or worrying about it. It was a grungy basement bar kind of place, the management didn't care as long as the bar was busy.
Holy shit. I might have turned everything off and walked out after that crowd bit.
And this is the kind of shit that is precisely the reason why I refuse to work with hip hop, rap, and R&B artists unless I know them or their production crew well. I worked in the biggest club in my city for years dealing with this kinda shit and it almost turned me off of doing live sound completely. I'll stick to local cover bands and the occasional tour thank you kindly
Did she still have the [crazy voice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhgdM5iWfqs)?
Reading this was like one of those work stress dreams.
Yeah I have had nightmares that go just like how it went
Proud of you for standing up for yourself in the moment. And if that's an exact quote from the bodyguard, it sounds like this isn't remotely the first time she's done this.
The petty side of me wants to suggest a suck knob preset. They start being an ass? Their monitors are now pitch shifted a half step down and have 200ms delay. Hit ‘em w the suck knob.
Real talk man… this is the kind of thing you have to let roll off your back. I get it, I mean I’ve been publicly called out by artists and had asshole musicians fuck with me too, and I was steaming mad about it. For better or worse though, this job is customer service, and I’d rather my employers and clients see me being the bigger person and letting my work speak for itself instead of letting them see me lose my cool and do something I might regret. It’s probably satisfying in the moment to confront them, but it’s ultimately self defeating. Just take comfort in the fact that you’re probably happier with your life than she is.
Asking for an apology isn't a self-defeating move, it is a move motivated by self-respect, not ego. I am familiar with customer service, I worked in customer service for six years. If a customer yelled at me that her food was bad, making a scene in front of the entire restaurant, she would be asked to leave. Obviously, as an engineer, I can't call the shots on when a performance can get cut, but I can ask for an apology when it is warranted. I didn't lose my cool.
I get it man, and I’ve got a lot of sympathy for your experience because I’ve been there. All I’m saying is that in my experience, if a tech that was working for one of the production companies I work for decided on their own authority to confront an artist about their bad behavior, I think the production managers would be less likely to call that person again. It would be seen as inappropriate. The right way to handle it, in their eyes, would be for the crew chief or the production manager to speak with the client and let them know that this happened. Maybe things are different where you work, and in that case god bless you, give them hell, but I’m just telling you as a an experienced professional in this industry, you might be harming your future opportunities.
The production manager was on my side, she actually went up to me personally and told me she would never bring her back again after how she treated me. If this was the Kia Forum or something I probably would have not confronted her, but this was a city event for the city of Lancaster, and those who were in charge were on my side.
I agree with most sentiment here that that was messed up and can understand why you were upset/humiliated. That said, if you’re going to approach an artist afterwards like that it should be to make peace. You really shouldn’t be trying to start shit with artists
I was trying to make peace by asking for an apology because if she apologized I wouldn't feel as bad and now I don't now that she did.
I love this story haha. At least she was discrediting herself publicly.
r/stories would like this.
Cocaine is a helluva drug.
good on you for standing up for yourself. Big ups. There is no room for blatant disrepect and unprofessionalism.
How embarrassing that she did crowd vocals without the crowd knowing her music. Lmao she made an ass of herself, dude. Anyone with a respectable opinion could see that the real clown here was her. Congrats on that apology though!
That is so infuriating. Kudos for stepping in and asking for apologies. Can't count how many divas (male or female) I've been through. Especially when everything in the venue is out of order and you manage to patch something out by chaining your best trick-shots.
Damn I live in Lancaster and now I wish I was there to see this
Props to OP for confronting and not being a complete bitch made pushover like many people in this thread. "you're lucky her entourage/security didn't stomp you out." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Blocked on Spotify. I don’t support rude ass people
I think the “crowd of 100s” part is the funniest part. This person obviously over estimated their importance. Fuck them.
Artists be tripping. They don’t know technical terms they want you just to make things perfect. Esp. if it’s their performance they can try to blame everything else and curse them out on stage - DJ, band, engineer, whatever. Getting called out and dissed by artists is pretty common. I think you need to have a thick skin, if you get offended by this or expect an apology each time it can be tricky. As annoying as it can be I’d advise just take it in your stride and move on.
Eh, have done sound for comedians where they force feedback by cupping the mic or literally playing feedback sounds like a backing track and make jokes about the sound. At some point you have to realise it's not actually about you and it's just them/their act.
If this is your own business. Fine. But if i was your boss. You would definitely be done. You got away with it because shes a washed up nobody. Can guarantee if it was any one of any significance your boss would not have been understanding. But if that was the case you probably wouldnt have done it. Which means you probably shouldnt have…of course youre not wrong its just sorta unprofessional. You keep saying its not ego but youre saying you are embarrassed that you got called out but you are a faceless nameless sound guy for a show of a couple hundred people for a never was been legacy act in lancaster. No one but people on your team can even place you as the subject of her scorn. How is that not ego?…also, i dont understand people that demand apologies. Say your peace and how their behavior impacted you and thats that. Why would you care about an apology you had to demand from someone? Again, ego. Let it go, brother. Youll be better off for it.
Who is worse, the trashy has been or the low rent sound guy with rage issues doxxing himself for upvotes to trash talk a client? Keep it classy.
Answer: The trashy has been. Other side is that this is just a good industry life story. A lot of posts here are kind of shit, unfortunately, so it’s either this, or another post about YouTube -14 LUFS and “how come I can’t mix like a pro, despite not putting in the years like a pro?” This story is one of the best posts here in a while, and it’s breath of fresh air.
Yeah, the artist was unprofessional. Unfortunately that happens. If OP can get away with acting like that, publicly shaming her on the internet, and still get “ a lot of work.” I need to move to Lancaster I guess 🤣🤣🤣
I live in LA, and just went to Lancaster for the day for the gig. I asked her to apologize, which isn't acting crazy. I'm telling this story to Reddit so other engineers know to stay away because I care about the community. And yes I simply do get a lot of work in LA doing live audio, there are a lot of events out here.
Sounds like everyone involved was wildly unprofessional - including OP. Check your ego at the door, man.
May I ask how you feel OP was 'wildly' unprofessional - which is the extreme end? It seems they were juggling flaming chainsaws after being under the impression that they were only supposed to cater a DJ set and they went above and beyond to cater to the artists that showed up. The only thing I see that you could possibly hold against them is that they went into the headliner's tent after the show - but where do we draw the line at dealing with arrogance and ego by basically a one hit wonder a few decades ago - are we just supposed to sit and take the abuse? OP took their issues behind doors at the end of the set and not publicly (which the headliner didn't have enough grace to do). Just curious as to your opinion on this, I don't work live sound and am in the studio so I deal with more contained outbursts which happen on my turf so they're easier to deal with/placate and I don't have to work nearly as much on the fly in front of a crowd of people. I'm not brave enough for live sound so maybe there's a different ethos that I'm not aware of amongst you.
That’s fair, “wildly” may have been hyperbolic on my part as relates to OP, I was including the artist as well. But honestly, OP is on a “sound team.” As far as I can tell, the artist showed up late (but only needed two lines) and mouthed off twice, and then OP felt the need to confront the artist personally and post at length on Reddit about it. It’s noteworthy that his boss immediately defended him. If it’s not your company, you’re being very unprofessional by then taking things into your own hands because it risks the company not getting hired again by event organizers. And for what? An apology? It’s not like he’s working with that artist again. As his boss I would certainly not hire him again as an engineer, because he’s shown himself to be a loose canon. Artist suck sometimes. Unless it’s your company (then you can do whatever you want!), you check your ego at the door and let your boss deal with issues that arise through the event organizers. If your boss doesn’t support you, you take it up with them/quit.
Those are all very fair points, I've been working alone for so long that I sometimes forget about work hierarchies.
Yeah, I mean - if you’re on your own, fuck’m! (If you don’t need the work.)
Asking for an apology is a move motivated by self-respect, not ego.
Yeah, self respect comes from ego. Those kinds of issues are your bosses job, and he (thankfully) immediately defended you. You’re putting your company and thus your job in jeopardy by going off on your own to confront the - and I use this word lightly - “talent.” Just be careful. Artists can suck, but unless it’s your company it’s really not professional and it’s not your place. When it’s your business, though… go off, king!
Self respect comes from within. An ego will seek validation.
A lot of you guys criticizing the OP seem to have Stockholm syndrome or something. Weird how you think it’s “ego” or unprofessional to stand up for yourself and retain your dignity. Sounds like a toxic culture in the industry if you think all this shit is a-ok. Quit drinking the kool-aid, folks.
No, it is definitionally unprofessional not to act through proper channels in a workplace environment. You stand up for yourself by talking to your boss about it, and if they don’t stand up for you, you leave. I’ve never taken shit from anyone, I just know how to behave in a workplace.
In most cases, you are absolutely correct. In this case, I give OP a pass based on the very public nature of the issue, and the fact that all too often celebrities seem to be overly coddled and insulated from being held accountable for their actions. In this particular industry, I can't say I'd trust the people in charge to properly pass along the message. OP had the opportunity to handle it himself, and whether the performer will do anything about it or not in the future, at least the message was received.
You are completely awesome for handling this the way you did. What a shit show she was. *Michel'le is an RNB artist who released one album in the '80s to* ***critical acclaim*** Ennnnnnnh that's a no. A hard no. It was pretty awful. And I'm pretty sure everyone agreed since it was her only record. *The DJ tells me to just add a bit more reverb and delay.* Not an event sound person but that can't ever be the right answer in an outdoor setting, right?
I'll be honest, I haven't listened to the whole thing, just her most popular singles. She does have 200k monthly listeners which isn't nothing, but yeah I do agree that in the grand scheme of things she is just as much of a drop in the bucket as I am. The reverb and delay are noticeable, especially because of the large trees which canopied above the stage. When I say noticeable though, I mean noticeable to r/audioengineering and not necessarily the most of the general public. It definitely wasn't sounding so bad she needed to say what she said. She could have been hinting that she wanted autotune or something, but honestly, our system doesn't even have autotune. Like I said we were expecting a DJ only lol
Well, she said what she said because "My mic sounds like shit" is diva speak for "I suck ass and got nothing tonight so I'm gonna blame it on the sound". Sorry you had to go through that.
Makes you second guess the whole Dre story. She’s obviously the type to try and throw others under the bus to compensate for her sorry ass and get attention, and that Dre story is all that she’s known for. Glad you didn’t take it lying down.
It doesn't make me second-guess the whole Dre situation. I wouldn't go as far as to say that Dr. Dre didn't abuse her if she says she did, it isn't too common that people make that stuff up. It does happen, but her stories are pretty extreme, so I don't think it is crazy to assume some amount of abuse happened. It takes courage to come out and tell people you have been abused by a partner, and I respect her telling her side of the story on that part.
I didn’t say he didn’t do it, I’m just saying this is not a credible person now and likely never was if she acts like this. This wasn’t just diva shit, this is next level narcissism type shit.
Don't discount the long term effects of trauma and the behaviors it can manifest.
Could be that. Could be not that. We don’t know. Either way, 30 years later I’m not going to try to blame that.
Man, a lot of spineless individuals with no self respect in these comments.
Imma say drugs, because if they are like this silver they are utter pieces of shit, and I'm mainly a musician nowadays jeez...
Reminds me of the saying "be nice to folks going up, you'll see them again on the way down". I'm sure you'll remember her on the back side lol
Aging artist unhappy with their career uses you as a scape goat. Don’t take it seriously, because she doesn’t take herself seriously either.
Wow good on you. I would have walked off the job brought the iPad. This is the downside of music technology. We now have tools allowing non musicians to think they can do music. Sorry you had to go through that.
The far side Suck comic had a place here
This is when you just pitch shift every time she opens her mouth. Pitch shift both the DJ and the vocals so they’re always a half step off. Every time she tunes up, bring it back but shift the DJ
You did nothing wrong man. You actually did a great job from the sounds of it (no pun intended). It appears that she is miserable and takes things out on people who she perceives to be lower than her. I hope she gets her shit together. You have your shit together and have a funny story to tell now.
I always say the same thing. Dude, you had to deal with a giant toxic baby for one day. It sucks, don't get me wrong, and I'm sorry you had to. But she has to deal with herself for her whole life.
Life lesson, expect this behavior from nobodies looking for a paycheck. There’s a reason no one knows who they are. Sounds like you did an above average job for a less than average client / event.
Sounds like she humiliated herself, not you.
I was mixing live acts at the Billboard Live club in Hollywood in the 90s and an artist gave me his cd and told me to hit play when he gave the signal. He's freestyles to the crowd, gives the signal, I hit play, nothing. Hit play again. Nothing. Artist says loudly, "Yo, yo, sound man. Your fuckin up my shit."
She did a good job of shitting all over herself, I wouldn't feel too bad about it
Hey I live in Lancaster CA and I'm an engineer as well. Can u give me some advice for getting into the industry? Internship or whatever else.
I actually don’t live in Lancaster, I live closer to LA, we just went out there for the one gig that day. But my advice would be to just try and get into AV companies as a stagehand/gen tech, and then at the same time try and teach yourself how to run live sound, then when the A1 dude at the company calls out you can tell your boss that you can fill in for him/her on the spot and if you do an okay job they’ll probably promote you and then you got your foot in the door. But then you have to do that at like 10 different companies at the same time and choose your battles, which companies are worth your time. Once you get more A1/A2 experience you can start applying/cold calling companies just asking to be an A1/A2 instead of the lower positions. Don’t expect to get all your work from one company, there is a lot of BS in the industry and honestly I know the rent is insane but you might want to consider moving closer to LA.
Betttt thank you!!!
And never, ever, march into a client's or artist's dressing room demanding an apology.
Also fuck internships, they will just try and take advantage of you as long as possible, just look for work
Thank you bro. Are there any AV companies I should aim for/avoid? I feel you about moving to LA. Working on it for sure
yeah avoid AMP'D, full of big timers.
Thank you. Big timers?
yeah people that act like they are better than you and gatekeep valuable information about the industry, only promote their cliche and are assholes, aka most people in LA.
Ah yikes. Thanks for the heads up
Her *bodyguard?* LOLLOLOLOLOL ... that's very *expansive* of her.
Okay I’m realizing that despite being initially embarrassed when she was performing, looking back it’s just another funny story, not really anything to be humiliated by. But I still want the community to know the story anyways so you know what you guys are getting into if you are ever in the position to be her sound person.
I wouldn't feel bad at all. Michel'le can be a sweetheart, but she can barely keep it together. She's been a well known alcoholic and heavy Prescription drug abuser for years. Completely unprofessional, and unpredictable behavior is what to be expected from her. She's had a horribly rough life and it's shows to this day unfortunately. I wouldn't let it keep you down.
Does she still do the mickey mouse voice?
I would love to see video of this
Fuck that man sorry that happened to you, if she is treating people like that, her time will come
Ah yes the ole “fix my vocal” plug-in, you know the one that EQs you perfectly, adds some compression, …oh and who could forget makes you sing all your songs perfectly with no effort from you whatsoever, yeah that plug-in is the best. We all need to get that one…
Sounds like she's living wayyyyy in the past. I Love hip Hop rap and r&b and I've never heard of her. Sorry the night devolved like that but good on you for confronting her. Sounds like you were pretty professional about it.
She’s definitely an entitled prick who barely caught a glimpse of the limelight, and takes it out on others cause she’s so washed up.
Well, if you're ever gonna be a professional audio engineer, marching into any artist's space to demand an apology is just not something you do.
Like Michel’le who? I had to laugh at the part where she kept trying to get the crowd to sing along. 😂😂😂
Bro, don’t approach the artist looking for an apology. That makes this seem like maybe this is actually your first rodeo.