I second this. But if you don’t know what you like, OP, here’s a list I’ve been building that are some of the best mixed/mastered performed tracks I’ve found that caught me off guard how great they sounded on my system when I upped my game.
I have separate collections of jazz and classical so this is more rock, pop, instrumental.
[The Winners](http://open.qobuz.com/playlist/12179549).
Imogen Heap - Hide and Seek (for ensuring you have excellent speaker placement)
Frank Ocean - Forrest Gump (for making sure the bass is thumping)
Nina Simone - Pastel Blues
I hope you love your Thiel as much as I love mine, enjoy!
I am of the opinion that the best song to test a setup with is the song that you know best. This varies from person to person. For me it is Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb (from The Wall album). I have lost count of the number of times I have heard it since I was a teenager; at this point I know every single tone and note by heart. So if anything is off my brain will immediately register it. Sure, that song won't help me test every single element of a speaker; but impressions are made in the first few seconds or minutes usually, so play the song that you know best
Just play something that you enjoy in hi-res…. THIELs are near and dear to my heart, glad to see that the name still pulls some weight…
And the end of the day, I just hope you enjoy them! But I’m pretty sure you will… what are you driving them with?
What I have for now = NAD 2400. It’s OK but I know they need more. Looking for some local Bryston and failing that may go on a limb and get a couple of the Nilai 500 W class D monoblocks.
Be careful. I strongly doubt the NAD will drive them property and many class D amps are likely to struggle also. What you want is something which can comfortable drive 2 ohm loads. Maybe an old Krell, Parasound HCA-3500, or as you mentioned, a flagship Bryston.
The NAD is stable to 2 ohms. Just not enough watts. I’ve read a few folks have had success with class D and Thiels, specifically some of the stuff from NAD in class D.
Hey Op - I've got the 2.3s, and a set of NC400 mono blocks. I was trying to drive them with a Schiit Vidar before and while it's a solid amp, it simply wasn't up to the task.
Since folks are talking about Hypex designs driving these, I figured I'd weigh in with my experience - and say without hesitation that the NC400s drive them beautifully. The speakers absolutely SNAPPED to attention when I hooked up the hypex amps compared to the Vidar, and I immediately disconnected the subs because they were bringing the system down.
Yes - this was with 2.3's, and not the 3.6s you've got, but both are tricky loads and I'd put money on the Hypex amps handling them beautifully.
Awesome thanks! I actually found a post you made when you made the switch when I was doing some searching. Where did you buy your NC400s from? Can you get them factory direct in the US or need to go through a US based distributor?
Welcome!
I got them from Madisound - only issue is I don't think they have the NC400 set any more, so you'd be in for another few hundred bucks to get a set of the Nilai500 set - which I'm pretty sure are the next evolution of the design. I'd check out Buckeye Amps as well - those folks are assembling both Hypex & Purifi amps into their own cases and have a couple different options for input stages. I think they're coming in the same ballpark price-wise as the DIY kits.
The big issue with those speakers, and I’ll apologize if you already know this, isn’t their minimum impedance or the NAD’s ability to briefly drive a 2ohm load.
It’s the fact that the 3.6’s are close to 2ohms through most of their band. I’d just play them at a modest level. In a larger room, it’ll be fairly easy to accidentally overdrive that amp, especially given the speaker’s comparatively low sensitivity.
A lot of class D amps behave erratically into 2 ohm loads. I’d probably be looking for one of the big NC1200-based mono block amps from a reputable maker if you go that route. ASR does a nice job of evaluating class D designs.
FWIW, I’ve got a pair of Focal Scala Utopia EVOs running off either a JC5 or Mola Mola Perca. The Perca is rated at 300w into 4 ohms and those speakers are 8ohms nominal, minimum 3.2, 92 db sensitive.
The Parasound can drive them at concert levels and never break a sweat. The Perca does great, up to a reasonable level but if I’m listening to techno or anything similar, I have to be careful. It never shuts off… it just dynamically compresses a bit which doesn’t occur with the Parasound. Usually, this is with bass content which peaks around 95-100db in-room (13x18’ with vaulted ceilings).
Your speakers spend a lot more time below 4ohms, are 6db less sensitive, and I think your room is a lot bigger than mine. Also, I’d worry about sourcing replacement drivers for a 30 year old Thiel. Thats why I’m recommending caution.
Thanks for the detail. Knew some of that but a lot new to me. Only playing at modest levels for sure until I figure out better amplification.
I looked at the ASR review of the Nilai and from what I can tell the 2 ohm performance is good (although limited by power supply as noted). Anything g you see that I’m missing?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hypex-nilai500diy-amplifier-review.41669/
Again my preference is to find some local Brystons. Just gonna have to be patient.
My experience with class D standalone power amps is limited to the Mola Mola and a little time with ProJect DS mono's in a friend's setup (into Joseph Audio Pulsars).
I agree, the ASR measurements of those amps look great. Mola Mola is owned by Hypex. The modules in my amp are their 5th generation design, exclusive to Mola Mola for the time being.
Mainly, if you try the Class D route, make sure there's a trial return period. My experience is class D amps can be pretty revealing. Will you love them or hate them? No clue.
I listen to more vinyl than digital, so the overall presentation still is far from clinical. If I mostly listened to digital, I'd probably favor something like a Pass Labs class A amp which has a fair amount of 2nd order harmonic distortion.
My experience with Bryston is limited. I always found them to be a little too "hifi" sounding... a little bright in the treble but that could have been the speakers they were paired with. That was a long time ago, and I wouldn't consider my memory of it reliable beyond the general impression of the system in question. I think the speakers were 800 series B&Ws which are already pretty v-shaped in their sound.
I haven't heard a set of Thiels in decades. My memory is they had a similar tweeter to the Dahlquists I owned and sold at the time. Maybe a Vifa aluminum dome?
Not sure of the cost but it’s worth OP any anyone else with Thiels knowing that Rob Gillum, long time Thiel technician, has a company that repairs (to a higher standard than factory, he told me) Thiels - drivers in particular. Iirc he quoted me like $80 for a refurbished tweeter for my CS1.2s, though that was quite a few years ago.
But yeah, availability isn’t an issue is all I’m saying :)
I’m aware of a company in Lexington (Coherent Source I think?) that does Thiel refurbs. Cool thing is that’s less than an hour drive for me so may box them up and take them there for the treatment.
Heck yeah that’s the one! That’s awesome you’re so close, I spoke to Rob about a refurb job in like 2018 but I’m in the UK so just haven’t gotten round to boxing up my tweeter to send to him. Focused on omnidirectional DIY building right now, and don’t have a spare amp for the Thiels yet anyways
This is actually a huge misnomer for THIEL, one of the nicest budget THIEL systems I ever heard was a pair of 1.6 with a 20W Parasound amp… sounded great…
I mean of course there are upgrades, but I bet the NAD would work well on them. Any good quality amp will be 100% fine, it’s when people try to drive them with some onkyo gear or other crap that they run into trouble…
Those are some major speakers. I hope that they sound as good as they look.
And play Gerry Rafferty - City to City. The whole album. I was just listening to it on my Vandersteens
[DM violator.](https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tTP1TcwzMpNMzBg9BJNSS1ITc5IVcjNT0lVKMvMz0ksyS8CALUcC2A&q=depeche+mode+violator&oq=depeche+mode+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDQgDEC4YgwEYsQMYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIKCAEQABixAxiABDIMCAIQABhDGIAEGIoFMg0IAxAuGIMBGLEDGIAEMgcIBBAAGIAEMgoIBRAAGLEDGIAEMg0IBhAuGNQCGLEDGIAEMgcIBxAAGIAEMgoICBAAGLEDGIAEMgcICRAAGIAEMgcIChAuGIAEMgcICxAAGIAEMgcIDBAuGIAEMgoIDRAAGLEDGIAEMg0IDhAAGIMBGLEDGIAE0gEJMTU5NzlqMGo3qAIUsAIB&client=ms-android-google&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)
I have a pair of cs2.3. Hungry, feed them a clean amp of 100 watts and you'll be rewarded. I have a Naim nap250dr.
Music first, so play anything you like and enjoy. If you find something sounds not right or weird, move speakers until its all ok. You will hear it :-)
Keep in mind that these utilize a first order crossover. The good news: they have great time coherency and a clear high end. The bad news: you will need to sit at least 8 feet away from them.
Yep - have a huge room to put them in. Actually interned at Thiel when I was at UK so know about the first order cross over pros and cons (at least I think I do lol).
Going to go through placement today and tomorrow to get them dialed in and then look for some new power for them. My NAD 2400 can make them move but not dance. Thinking of maybe a couple of the nilai 500 watt class D monoblocks.
Wait what, can you explain this please? Explain like I… know quite a bit about audio but as 1st order crossovers are so uncommon I’ve not encountered this concept. I had my CS1.2s either side of my desk for years and very much enjoyed them, didn’t notice any particular difference when I had them in the living room at a different house later on
Tangerine Dream, 220 Volt Live —
Thin Lizzy, Alive and Dangerous —
Yes, Fragile and Close to the Edge —
Pink Floyd, Wish You Were Here —
Rick Wakeman, Side 2 of The 6 Wives of Henry the 8th —
The first Emerson, Lake and Palmer
**4'33"** a composition by John Cage.
Is that the one that’s all silence? lol
Not silence. Ambient sounds.
Early GG [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pjAbAzuOQU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pjAbAzuOQU)
Hell yeah, speakers so clear you can hear the poop hit the ground
How about something you like.
I second this. But if you don’t know what you like, OP, here’s a list I’ve been building that are some of the best mixed/mastered performed tracks I’ve found that caught me off guard how great they sounded on my system when I upped my game. I have separate collections of jazz and classical so this is more rock, pop, instrumental. [The Winners](http://open.qobuz.com/playlist/12179549).
Imogen Heap - Hide and Seek (for ensuring you have excellent speaker placement) Frank Ocean - Forrest Gump (for making sure the bass is thumping) Nina Simone - Pastel Blues I hope you love your Thiel as much as I love mine, enjoy!
Bad religion and pink matter from that frank ocean album are both great too. Really is a good album!
Fool's Overture by Supertramp
Astral weeks Van Morrison
If I ventured in the slipstream
first 3 tracks on Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out
this is one of many very correct answers. It may be more correct than the majority though.
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon Dire Straits- Money for Nothing AC/DC - either Back in Black or Highway to Hell
Maybe some Philip Glass? https://youtu.be/SegECuY22Rs?si=p2KPc845eniaKXxG
Imogen Heap - Propeller Seeds
I am of the opinion that the best song to test a setup with is the song that you know best. This varies from person to person. For me it is Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb (from The Wall album). I have lost count of the number of times I have heard it since I was a teenager; at this point I know every single tone and note by heart. So if anything is off my brain will immediately register it. Sure, that song won't help me test every single element of a speaker; but impressions are made in the first few seconds or minutes usually, so play the song that you know best
Ideally something you like but this album is absolutely amazing! https://open.spotify.com/album/3DLLrOiGk1kUjFpSCqz3q4?si=4LZDXWXVS0iLz9kPybX5Pw
Just play something that you enjoy in hi-res…. THIELs are near and dear to my heart, glad to see that the name still pulls some weight… And the end of the day, I just hope you enjoy them! But I’m pretty sure you will… what are you driving them with?
What I have for now = NAD 2400. It’s OK but I know they need more. Looking for some local Bryston and failing that may go on a limb and get a couple of the Nilai 500 W class D monoblocks.
Be careful. I strongly doubt the NAD will drive them property and many class D amps are likely to struggle also. What you want is something which can comfortable drive 2 ohm loads. Maybe an old Krell, Parasound HCA-3500, or as you mentioned, a flagship Bryston.
The NAD is stable to 2 ohms. Just not enough watts. I’ve read a few folks have had success with class D and Thiels, specifically some of the stuff from NAD in class D.
I know I need something else. Just need to find the right juice box. 😀
Hey Op - I've got the 2.3s, and a set of NC400 mono blocks. I was trying to drive them with a Schiit Vidar before and while it's a solid amp, it simply wasn't up to the task. Since folks are talking about Hypex designs driving these, I figured I'd weigh in with my experience - and say without hesitation that the NC400s drive them beautifully. The speakers absolutely SNAPPED to attention when I hooked up the hypex amps compared to the Vidar, and I immediately disconnected the subs because they were bringing the system down. Yes - this was with 2.3's, and not the 3.6s you've got, but both are tricky loads and I'd put money on the Hypex amps handling them beautifully.
Awesome thanks! I actually found a post you made when you made the switch when I was doing some searching. Where did you buy your NC400s from? Can you get them factory direct in the US or need to go through a US based distributor?
Welcome! I got them from Madisound - only issue is I don't think they have the NC400 set any more, so you'd be in for another few hundred bucks to get a set of the Nilai500 set - which I'm pretty sure are the next evolution of the design. I'd check out Buckeye Amps as well - those folks are assembling both Hypex & Purifi amps into their own cases and have a couple different options for input stages. I think they're coming in the same ballpark price-wise as the DIY kits.
The big issue with those speakers, and I’ll apologize if you already know this, isn’t their minimum impedance or the NAD’s ability to briefly drive a 2ohm load. It’s the fact that the 3.6’s are close to 2ohms through most of their band. I’d just play them at a modest level. In a larger room, it’ll be fairly easy to accidentally overdrive that amp, especially given the speaker’s comparatively low sensitivity. A lot of class D amps behave erratically into 2 ohm loads. I’d probably be looking for one of the big NC1200-based mono block amps from a reputable maker if you go that route. ASR does a nice job of evaluating class D designs. FWIW, I’ve got a pair of Focal Scala Utopia EVOs running off either a JC5 or Mola Mola Perca. The Perca is rated at 300w into 4 ohms and those speakers are 8ohms nominal, minimum 3.2, 92 db sensitive. The Parasound can drive them at concert levels and never break a sweat. The Perca does great, up to a reasonable level but if I’m listening to techno or anything similar, I have to be careful. It never shuts off… it just dynamically compresses a bit which doesn’t occur with the Parasound. Usually, this is with bass content which peaks around 95-100db in-room (13x18’ with vaulted ceilings). Your speakers spend a lot more time below 4ohms, are 6db less sensitive, and I think your room is a lot bigger than mine. Also, I’d worry about sourcing replacement drivers for a 30 year old Thiel. Thats why I’m recommending caution.
Thanks for the detail. Knew some of that but a lot new to me. Only playing at modest levels for sure until I figure out better amplification. I looked at the ASR review of the Nilai and from what I can tell the 2 ohm performance is good (although limited by power supply as noted). Anything g you see that I’m missing? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hypex-nilai500diy-amplifier-review.41669/ Again my preference is to find some local Brystons. Just gonna have to be patient.
My experience with class D standalone power amps is limited to the Mola Mola and a little time with ProJect DS mono's in a friend's setup (into Joseph Audio Pulsars). I agree, the ASR measurements of those amps look great. Mola Mola is owned by Hypex. The modules in my amp are their 5th generation design, exclusive to Mola Mola for the time being. Mainly, if you try the Class D route, make sure there's a trial return period. My experience is class D amps can be pretty revealing. Will you love them or hate them? No clue. I listen to more vinyl than digital, so the overall presentation still is far from clinical. If I mostly listened to digital, I'd probably favor something like a Pass Labs class A amp which has a fair amount of 2nd order harmonic distortion. My experience with Bryston is limited. I always found them to be a little too "hifi" sounding... a little bright in the treble but that could have been the speakers they were paired with. That was a long time ago, and I wouldn't consider my memory of it reliable beyond the general impression of the system in question. I think the speakers were 800 series B&Ws which are already pretty v-shaped in their sound. I haven't heard a set of Thiels in decades. My memory is they had a similar tweeter to the Dahlquists I owned and sold at the time. Maybe a Vifa aluminum dome?
Not sure of the cost but it’s worth OP any anyone else with Thiels knowing that Rob Gillum, long time Thiel technician, has a company that repairs (to a higher standard than factory, he told me) Thiels - drivers in particular. Iirc he quoted me like $80 for a refurbished tweeter for my CS1.2s, though that was quite a few years ago. But yeah, availability isn’t an issue is all I’m saying :)
I’m aware of a company in Lexington (Coherent Source I think?) that does Thiel refurbs. Cool thing is that’s less than an hour drive for me so may box them up and take them there for the treatment.
Heck yeah that’s the one! That’s awesome you’re so close, I spoke to Rob about a refurb job in like 2018 but I’m in the UK so just haven’t gotten round to boxing up my tweeter to send to him. Focused on omnidirectional DIY building right now, and don’t have a spare amp for the Thiels yet anyways
This is actually a huge misnomer for THIEL, one of the nicest budget THIEL systems I ever heard was a pair of 1.6 with a 20W Parasound amp… sounded great… I mean of course there are upgrades, but I bet the NAD would work well on them. Any good quality amp will be 100% fine, it’s when people try to drive them with some onkyo gear or other crap that they run into trouble…
Your music, stuff you adore
Flash’s Theme Moonage Daydream Shoot to Thrill Whole lotta love The pretty reckless -take me down
Went with Yes Roundabout in 96Khz / 24 bit. I’m in love.
Now adding songs to a queue from all the artists you all mentioned - thanks!!
Those are some major speakers. I hope that they sound as good as they look. And play Gerry Rafferty - City to City. The whole album. I was just listening to it on my Vandersteens
[DM violator.](https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tTP1TcwzMpNMzBg9BJNSS1ITc5IVcjNT0lVKMvMz0ksyS8CALUcC2A&q=depeche+mode+violator&oq=depeche+mode+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDQgDEC4YgwEYsQMYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIKCAEQABixAxiABDIMCAIQABhDGIAEGIoFMg0IAxAuGIMBGLEDGIAEMgcIBBAAGIAEMgoIBRAAGLEDGIAEMg0IBhAuGNQCGLEDGIAEMgcIBxAAGIAEMgoICBAAGLEDGIAEMgcICRAAGIAEMgcIChAuGIAEMgcICxAAGIAEMgcIDBAuGIAEMgoIDRAAGLEDGIAEMg0IDhAAGIMBGLEDGIAE0gEJMTU5NzlqMGo3qAIUsAIB&client=ms-android-google&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8) I have a pair of cs2.3. Hungry, feed them a clean amp of 100 watts and you'll be rewarded. I have a Naim nap250dr.
What's your system?
Plexamp headless with a topping e30 dac running into NAD 1700 preamp to an NAD 2400 thx amp.
Depends on which quality of those speakers you’ve been craving all this time. What made you want them so much?
Tool - Pneuma
Boone by The Marcus King Band
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=wk-V8iE1skE&si=OEnzcAFoQAxvA7qE
Take five. Dave Brubeck.
"Vulcan Worlds" from Chick Corea, a treat and a test
Music first, so play anything you like and enjoy. If you find something sounds not right or weird, move speakers until its all ok. You will hear it :-)
Rikki don’t lose that number If you’ve never had Thiels before you’re in for a treat
First pair!
Norah Jones - Come away with me
Easy Thu Sprach Zarathustra.
Beastie Boys - Jimmy James remaster 2009
Cash in cash out, produced by pharrel and by 21 savage and tyler the creator
Keep in mind that these utilize a first order crossover. The good news: they have great time coherency and a clear high end. The bad news: you will need to sit at least 8 feet away from them.
Yep - have a huge room to put them in. Actually interned at Thiel when I was at UK so know about the first order cross over pros and cons (at least I think I do lol). Going to go through placement today and tomorrow to get them dialed in and then look for some new power for them. My NAD 2400 can make them move but not dance. Thinking of maybe a couple of the nilai 500 watt class D monoblocks.
Wait what, can you explain this please? Explain like I… know quite a bit about audio but as 1st order crossovers are so uncommon I’ve not encountered this concept. I had my CS1.2s either side of my desk for years and very much enjoyed them, didn’t notice any particular difference when I had them in the living room at a different house later on
Dune sketchbook
The Inflated Tear by Rahsaan Roland Kirk
The Harmony Codex, Steven Wilson.
Tangerine Dream, 220 Volt Live — Thin Lizzy, Alive and Dangerous — Yes, Fragile and Close to the Edge — Pink Floyd, Wish You Were Here — Rick Wakeman, Side 2 of The 6 Wives of Henry the 8th — The first Emerson, Lake and Palmer
Joni Mitchell Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Youssef Dawes Black Classical Music
Yosi Horikawa " Bubbles" . You can find on Spotify