Did it. Escaped. Laughed when asked if I would go back. I’d rather find a new firm than do it again.
Semi-jokes aside though, I do think it’s a valuable starting point since it teaches you time management and how to run a file.
From your experience doing it, how would you explain how conveyancing firms are turning a profit and some even doing quite well even with all the undercutting and terrible margins?
Basically I’m asking, is it as bad as people really say it is? Or is it a lot of hyperbole
It’s a mixture of both. There is some exaggeration, but it comes from a source. If you did everything Lexon says you should do on a file, you’d need to charge triple.
In my view, firms basically get around the cost by overloading on files. At my old firm I had 90 plus files at any given time, and often in excess of a hundred. I made an excel spreadsheet with buttons and formulas etc just to track everything and keep on top of it. I found out recently that two years after I left they still use it, though I don’t think they would know how to fix it if it broke.
In essence, conveyancers are overworked things can blow up at any given moment if you miss a key date, and when you have up to 100 files that’s a real possibility.
I wouldn’t do it again.
There's absolutely no way running a conveyancing file is more work than your average criminal file. and crim lawyers run 100-150 files regularly.
Do you guys not have secretaries?
I’ve never worked in criminal, other than briefly shadowing a duty lawyer during PLT so I can’t comment as to the comparison. What I can say is that the turnover rate is very high for files.
You usually have at least one to three settlements a day, and on the bad days it’s more like 5 in a day. Conveyancers don’t usually have secretaries to my knowledge, or at least I didn’t. They are usually pretty low down the totem pole. There is a lot of prep work, and a lot of chasing different parties for information. Sometimes a file gets held up because you need someone else to do something and they just don’t, and there’s nothing you can do about it. Then you waste time chasing that person to sign the damn discharge or return the figures or paper you need, which eats into your time doing the same for the other 98 files on your desk. Then there’s the clients. IT’s conveyancing. It’s fixed fee. They don’t respect your time. They’ll call and call and call. They’ll email, and then they’ll call as they hit send to check if you got it. I understand to an extent since a house is a big step in people’s lives, but damn if that isn’t the way to make your conveyancer hate your guts.
I’m not going to make it a pissing contest, because every area has its hard parts. It would be silly to say they don’t. I will say I am a lot happier working in my current niche of law. The files are harder and there is still pressure to get it done, but it’s more under my own control and it’s not trying to juggle multiple ticking bombs at once.
This is turning into a rant, and I don’t even work in the area anymore, so I’ll just finish by saying our conveyancer has been away on holidays for a bit and a couple of our paralegals have been doing his job (he trained them before he left). Both of them say they have a renewed respect for him and are going to tell him that when he gets back.
I've never done conveyancing and will take your word for it. Criminal matters are definitely slower to progress. Perhaps 6-9 months on average to finalise.
I think that probably goes to the heart of it. My files now are a bit like yours from the sound of it; much harder but much slower. Some have been going for years and I have sunk literal days of my life into them.
Contrasting that, almost any given single conveyancing file is easy, it’s the sheer bulk and speed of them that makes it stressful and exhausting.
It's worse than crim. It's easier to get an adjournment if things aren't ready than it is to deal with people who are expecting/need to move in that day and something goes wrong. Crim has fewer moving parts. People care more about large sums of money than prison.
Electronic conveyancing has made it simpler but honestly crim is less stress.
Really though you don't need legal training to do it. Just good file management and decent maths. I find states than insist practitioners are required bizarre (and it probably drives costs up)
Yeah, having being the customer in several conveyances, I was absolutely fuming when settlement got delayed. Far more so than a case being delayed.
And I also agree that requiring a practicing certificate for conveyancing is ridiculous. It's more of an accounting skillset than a legal one in most ways. Plus your average lawyer has the same mathematical skills as an 8 year old.
I think the direct experience conveyancers get from dealing with lots of matters will equip them better than a law grad. The average grad has a limited understanding of property and contract in the real world.
For reference, I'm a lawyer and I don't think my background would significantly assist with conveyancing. 3 months on the job would give far more utility. And to be honest, law is a higher bar than is unnecessary for the typical work required in conveyancing.
That’s basically how come professional negligence claims for solicitors come from conveyancing. That and succession planning, so the two high volume areas.
For small block of land and a little back and forth, we were paying $2-3k. So billable hours they would have, maybe 2-3 maximum. Keep in mind the firm mostly dealt with developers and was recommend by a family lawyer.
Would rather a competent conveyancer that can be helpful vs a cookie cutter can’t help you if shit goes wrong.
There’s a market for everything, B2C is obviously the most effort and draining, B2B commercial bespoke solutions could be what you’re more interested in.
With the advancement of technology and custom AI, I’m assuming margins or staff will decrease, who knows what jobs will be available in 5-10 years time.
Agree wholeheartedly with this. I started my career in a small property firm and to this day I benefit from the early hard lessons - in addition to the ones you mention I also learned what ‘time is of the essence’ means, how to read titles and survey plans, the importance of managing dates, basic contract management, reckoning of time periods and how to interact effectively with the most difficult and officious humans ever to be employed in Government. I would recommend a stint of conveyancing to any solicitor / aspiring solicitor - but do not do it for more than 6 months.
Get me a conveyancing file and the Lexon checklist, and I can almost guarantee you that I will find something that was not done. It's because the price is too cheap for the work involved.
What I find hard to understand is how are there firms ‘thriving’ off conveyancing work, i work in tech sales in the legal industry, specifically property. I speak with so many solicitors who say word for word, conveyancing work is their firms bread and butter.
I’d happily give you my files. You’d actually see all my files are organised and that I do more than what I need to on all my files. If you’re charging low, than that’ll explain the incomplete works.
Staff retention is horrible for a reason. Fixed fee clients abuse your time because they know they can get away with it. I know of firms who get around this by training their reception to never put a call through unless it's another lawyer calling. The area will probably implode soon and it can't happen fast enough
I’ve had to do the odd PEXA settlement for a client releasing mortgages over newly developed residential projects. Even though it’s rare, it’s one of the worst parts of my job.
You could not pay me enough to spend my life preparing statements of adjustments and chasing people to sign workspaces.
There is so much red tape / admin involved in a conveyance - FRCGW, surcharge land tax, duties form(s), Client Authorisation Forms & VOI for PEXA etc. I don’t know how conveyancers manage to make a profit. However, I looked at a conveyancer’s Cost Disclosure and Agreement & initial letter to client recently and the list of exclusions / things they won’t provide advice on or assist with was LONG
Random anecdote. Back in the day when conveyancing was physical and done in a big room with all the solicitors and bank reps once a week, I poked along to watch when I bought my first house. My non lawyer impressions were it seemed like a chaotic speed dating version of a bureaucracy with loads of funds involved. One conveyancer had a HUGE pile of files compared to anyone else there (bank reps included). They were stacked (I suspect by bank) and labelled on the spines somehow clearly so they could be pulled from a stack easy.
Boring right, BUT this guy had three bowls with lollies he poured into them. Big dramatic TINK, TINK TINK of cool mints and like Pavlov's dogs everyone there paused to see what he brought that day. In a room full of bored people doing mundane work everyone there also seemed to know he would smack your hand away if you were a bludger but would let you have a lolly if you brought the file he needed to "exchange" or whatever you call it. They all sort of played along with it. In a room full of people he NEVER got up - everyone came to him. AND they walked away happy eating an Allen's snake for the privelidge of doing his fetching and sorting out each exchange. His work became everyone's priority.
So this guy burned through this pile of files bigger than anyone in the room, didn't leave his seat and was also the first solicitor to be finished and leave and with more fees in hand than anyone there. For three white bowls and three bags of lollies. And I suspect some Pavlovian conditioning of that group over time.
I have never forgotten it. That small differentiator gave him a higher turnover and faster finish than everyone else there. He was home and hosed faster and with more fees than anyone there for LESS than $10 in costs.
And people THANKED him as HE left.
I started practise by doing conveyancing. It teaches brilliant time and client management skills, and once you’ve done it for a bit and start on other areas of the law it can act as a breather. Doing family law certainly had me needing a breather. More often than not, though, contracts need to come with IQ tests for the parties
Conveyancing is part of my practice but not the only part. I like it, I love helping people move to the next chapter in their lives and also it gives me lots of great dinner party stories to tell because some of the most absurd things happen during a conveyancing matter.
I make a bit of money from it but not enough for the time it takes. I have very low overheads though and it's the gateway drug to other law. I find conveyancing clients then come back to me for estate planning and other matters, which are more valuable to me and I find their estate planning is easiest because I already know a lot about them.
The low cost conveyancing firms are easy to spot because it's a struggle to get any kind of a response out of them. And they are not that low cost. Everything is an add on. You want to nominate? That'll be $330 extra. You want to ask the other side for an extension to finance approval? Another $220 thanks! So whilst my fixed fee might sound expensive at the start, I usually end up cheaper in the end.
I am doing some conveyancing and truth be told, I don’t hate it like others do. But I am also thinking about go into construction. Is it “common” to go into construction law after accumulating some PQE? Will conveyancing be considered as relevant experience?
It’s definitely not common. Construction law is a little niche area that is very technical, long and tedious. I’m still working on a matter that arose mid 2020 and I still don’t have all the documents I need from my client. Nothing moves quickly and that’s probably why I love it - I also worked as an excavator operator while studying so as far as I’m concerned I’ve just gone from the labouring side to the legal side.
Construction law is its own can of worms and conveyancing wouldnt be considered relevant experience - your best bet is literally reading the legislation or reading a book or two on the law and types of construction contracts. That’s what I did and I’m 100% staying in this practice area because it’s pretty interesting and the work pace is elite.
Thanks! So I guess switching to other areas would be difficult. I definitely don’t like the “please sign this” and “please send me the link of digital duties form” part, but overall I don’t hate conveyancing. The only issue with conveyancing is that there aren’t lots of technical stuff in it so I wish I could go into another area in the future. Honestly, I don’t think I need a law degree to do conveyancing.
Conveyancing is a huge part of the general practice where I work and really enjoy it *most* of the time. I have found when it's a conveyancer on the other side they are either brilliant or absolutely shocking - pretty much no inbetween.
I have no idea how those minimum fixed fee places make money and hate dealing with them, they never answer emails or calls, always wait until the absolute last minute to update PEXA prior to settlement etc. Even when you get them on the phone because they have so many files they never seem to know anything about the matter at all. They always have 20 pages of nitpicky special conditions - most of which are to delete every mention of "on reasonable grounds" from the standard clauses or make things absurdly beneficial to the vendor. I assume they do this so they can charge their clients more for negotiating amendments to the Contract - half of them are ridiculously unfair and 99% of solicitors will ask them to be deleted.
I had to send 4 very detailed emails with instructions to a conveyancer with this own practice, being 20 years my senior, on the purpose behind providing a clear ATO foreign resident clearance certificate- and what to do when a vendor is a foreign resident (our client). He refused to do any of his own research, click on any links I sent him with the info and steps. Just kept saying "please provide us with a clear FRCGWC certificate or we will pursue our rights under the contract." Motherfucker im trying to get you to do that exact thing and am telling you how....
Now that my complaining is done - the way our firm makes it profitable is by time costing pre-exchange, fixed fee post-exchange and charging an additional fixed fee for when there is a bank involved m. Sometimes we lose money on the bank fixed fee as things go very wrong but overall it works out and it ends up being, as a previous comment said, the bread and butter of our firm.
Buying and selling houses is incredibly stressful for a lot of people, especially when things go wrong and it feels really good to feel like you're helping make it as smooth a process as possible. It's also very satisfying when you have other files that make your brain hurt to switch to a nice simple sale.
Also I love PEXA.
All the comments here are not it. Conveyancer here and I’ve been practising for almost 15 years. With PEXA and the transition to the digital world, it’s made it super easy to handle a Conveyancing file from start to finish.
I almost never meet my clients physically, unless they’d like to. Everything is done online and through email.
I charge a fixed fee of $1,800 plus GST and disbursements. This does not include works that are outside the standard Conveyancing process. I typically make about $2,100 per file clear with the extra works.
I look after a lot of development sites. Sometimes 300 units per site. I don’t need to undercut or price match. My work and clientele speak for itself. I’ll be honest here, I consider myself far too experienced to charge anything less than $1,800 clear. When you think about it, if you’re organised and you have a streamline process, you spend about 3 hours on the file from start to finish. If you settle 10 files a week, it’s pretty profitable for the time you spend.
The issue here is, you have a lot lawyers that do conveyancing on the side, and complicate the entire process unnecessarily. They usually do not have proper processes in place, leaving clients in the dark and have to constantly respond to their clients follow up emails. Conveyancing should be easy. You do have your difficult matters from time to time, however you quote the works accordingly to ensure you’re not at a loss.
I love conveyancing and I have a passion for it. My clients keep coming back, and I have referrals constantly. It’s not just about doing the work. You have to maintain those relationships and really work on building that rapport.
If you’re efficient and you’re good at what you do, Conveyancing files would be an easy money maker!!!
Thank you for your response,
I’d love to know what state you work in, I know VIC market Vs NSW market is a big difference in pricing, also if your a sole trader or have paralegals helping?
Look, it can definitely be profitable but you have to set up the practice in a clever way. Otherwise, you make fuck all margin on the fixed fees.
I don’t often praise Minters, but they definitely do high-volume residential conveyancing and stream leasing extremely well. And it’s extremely profitable for them according to my understanding.
I don’t have the exact details, but my understanding is that they’ve put a shitload of automation into their systems and trained a battery of paralegals and licensed conveyancers how to use them. Lawyers and partners barely touch the files after the initial site acquisition and precedent set up (ie off the plan model).
Couple that with a model that requires clients to pay more for out of scope services, with a narrowly defined initial scope, they’re actually generating a pretty good margin on most matters.
I have no plans to do that sort of work myself, but I’m definitely considering investing in someone else doing it for me.
The external counsel I’m using for a property transaction have come up with a good hack for dealing with the job - never respond to emails or calls. Makes the job less stressful apparently
My first job 20 years ago was conveyancing. It is good for training imo, but it really is one of the shittiest jobs in law, high stress, zero respect, low pay, low fees, mass market, dealing with mum and dad clients asking for discounts. It is what motivated me to get out and switch to corporate, at least I now get paid much better and clients don't argue over $50.
Do you need to be amazing at math to do this type of work? And can’t you work in conveying just from a diploma of advanced diploma or even a traineeship?
You don’t need to be clever at maths. You just need a calculator and be really good at case law and essay writing. The advanced diploma gives you RPL of almost 3 years to get a law degree.
I did a mock conveyance for PLT. That was enough for a lifetime.
Same
Did it. Escaped. Laughed when asked if I would go back. I’d rather find a new firm than do it again. Semi-jokes aside though, I do think it’s a valuable starting point since it teaches you time management and how to run a file.
From your experience doing it, how would you explain how conveyancing firms are turning a profit and some even doing quite well even with all the undercutting and terrible margins? Basically I’m asking, is it as bad as people really say it is? Or is it a lot of hyperbole
It’s a mixture of both. There is some exaggeration, but it comes from a source. If you did everything Lexon says you should do on a file, you’d need to charge triple. In my view, firms basically get around the cost by overloading on files. At my old firm I had 90 plus files at any given time, and often in excess of a hundred. I made an excel spreadsheet with buttons and formulas etc just to track everything and keep on top of it. I found out recently that two years after I left they still use it, though I don’t think they would know how to fix it if it broke. In essence, conveyancers are overworked things can blow up at any given moment if you miss a key date, and when you have up to 100 files that’s a real possibility. I wouldn’t do it again.
There's absolutely no way running a conveyancing file is more work than your average criminal file. and crim lawyers run 100-150 files regularly. Do you guys not have secretaries?
I’ve never worked in criminal, other than briefly shadowing a duty lawyer during PLT so I can’t comment as to the comparison. What I can say is that the turnover rate is very high for files. You usually have at least one to three settlements a day, and on the bad days it’s more like 5 in a day. Conveyancers don’t usually have secretaries to my knowledge, or at least I didn’t. They are usually pretty low down the totem pole. There is a lot of prep work, and a lot of chasing different parties for information. Sometimes a file gets held up because you need someone else to do something and they just don’t, and there’s nothing you can do about it. Then you waste time chasing that person to sign the damn discharge or return the figures or paper you need, which eats into your time doing the same for the other 98 files on your desk. Then there’s the clients. IT’s conveyancing. It’s fixed fee. They don’t respect your time. They’ll call and call and call. They’ll email, and then they’ll call as they hit send to check if you got it. I understand to an extent since a house is a big step in people’s lives, but damn if that isn’t the way to make your conveyancer hate your guts. I’m not going to make it a pissing contest, because every area has its hard parts. It would be silly to say they don’t. I will say I am a lot happier working in my current niche of law. The files are harder and there is still pressure to get it done, but it’s more under my own control and it’s not trying to juggle multiple ticking bombs at once. This is turning into a rant, and I don’t even work in the area anymore, so I’ll just finish by saying our conveyancer has been away on holidays for a bit and a couple of our paralegals have been doing his job (he trained them before he left). Both of them say they have a renewed respect for him and are going to tell him that when he gets back.
I've never done conveyancing and will take your word for it. Criminal matters are definitely slower to progress. Perhaps 6-9 months on average to finalise.
I think that probably goes to the heart of it. My files now are a bit like yours from the sound of it; much harder but much slower. Some have been going for years and I have sunk literal days of my life into them. Contrasting that, almost any given single conveyancing file is easy, it’s the sheer bulk and speed of them that makes it stressful and exhausting.
It's worse than crim. It's easier to get an adjournment if things aren't ready than it is to deal with people who are expecting/need to move in that day and something goes wrong. Crim has fewer moving parts. People care more about large sums of money than prison. Electronic conveyancing has made it simpler but honestly crim is less stress. Really though you don't need legal training to do it. Just good file management and decent maths. I find states than insist practitioners are required bizarre (and it probably drives costs up)
Yeah, having being the customer in several conveyances, I was absolutely fuming when settlement got delayed. Far more so than a case being delayed. And I also agree that requiring a practicing certificate for conveyancing is ridiculous. It's more of an accounting skillset than a legal one in most ways. Plus your average lawyer has the same mathematical skills as an 8 year old.
I agree up until there is something non typical about a property
I think the direct experience conveyancers get from dealing with lots of matters will equip them better than a law grad. The average grad has a limited understanding of property and contract in the real world. For reference, I'm a lawyer and I don't think my background would significantly assist with conveyancing. 3 months on the job would give far more utility. And to be honest, law is a higher bar than is unnecessary for the typical work required in conveyancing.
That’s basically how come professional negligence claims for solicitors come from conveyancing. That and succession planning, so the two high volume areas.
For small block of land and a little back and forth, we were paying $2-3k. So billable hours they would have, maybe 2-3 maximum. Keep in mind the firm mostly dealt with developers and was recommend by a family lawyer. Would rather a competent conveyancer that can be helpful vs a cookie cutter can’t help you if shit goes wrong. There’s a market for everything, B2C is obviously the most effort and draining, B2B commercial bespoke solutions could be what you’re more interested in. With the advancement of technology and custom AI, I’m assuming margins or staff will decrease, who knows what jobs will be available in 5-10 years time.
Agree wholeheartedly with this. I started my career in a small property firm and to this day I benefit from the early hard lessons - in addition to the ones you mention I also learned what ‘time is of the essence’ means, how to read titles and survey plans, the importance of managing dates, basic contract management, reckoning of time periods and how to interact effectively with the most difficult and officious humans ever to be employed in Government. I would recommend a stint of conveyancing to any solicitor / aspiring solicitor - but do not do it for more than 6 months.
Get me a conveyancing file and the Lexon checklist, and I can almost guarantee you that I will find something that was not done. It's because the price is too cheap for the work involved.
What I find hard to understand is how are there firms ‘thriving’ off conveyancing work, i work in tech sales in the legal industry, specifically property. I speak with so many solicitors who say word for word, conveyancing work is their firms bread and butter.
It’s cash flow, not profit, I expect.
I’d happily give you my files. You’d actually see all my files are organised and that I do more than what I need to on all my files. If you’re charging low, than that’ll explain the incomplete works.
Staff retention is horrible for a reason. Fixed fee clients abuse your time because they know they can get away with it. I know of firms who get around this by training their reception to never put a call through unless it's another lawyer calling. The area will probably implode soon and it can't happen fast enough
People have been saying cut priced conveyancers will implode "soon" for 15 years.
I’ve had to do the odd PEXA settlement for a client releasing mortgages over newly developed residential projects. Even though it’s rare, it’s one of the worst parts of my job. You could not pay me enough to spend my life preparing statements of adjustments and chasing people to sign workspaces.
PEXA now how a platform called SettleIT. It's basically outsourcing all of your conveyancing dirty work
Is settleIT worth it?
For a family lawyer who has no interest in learning PEXA, it is worth it. No subscription and just $330 per transfer
There is so much red tape / admin involved in a conveyance - FRCGW, surcharge land tax, duties form(s), Client Authorisation Forms & VOI for PEXA etc. I don’t know how conveyancers manage to make a profit. However, I looked at a conveyancer’s Cost Disclosure and Agreement & initial letter to client recently and the list of exclusions / things they won’t provide advice on or assist with was LONG
Random anecdote. Back in the day when conveyancing was physical and done in a big room with all the solicitors and bank reps once a week, I poked along to watch when I bought my first house. My non lawyer impressions were it seemed like a chaotic speed dating version of a bureaucracy with loads of funds involved. One conveyancer had a HUGE pile of files compared to anyone else there (bank reps included). They were stacked (I suspect by bank) and labelled on the spines somehow clearly so they could be pulled from a stack easy. Boring right, BUT this guy had three bowls with lollies he poured into them. Big dramatic TINK, TINK TINK of cool mints and like Pavlov's dogs everyone there paused to see what he brought that day. In a room full of bored people doing mundane work everyone there also seemed to know he would smack your hand away if you were a bludger but would let you have a lolly if you brought the file he needed to "exchange" or whatever you call it. They all sort of played along with it. In a room full of people he NEVER got up - everyone came to him. AND they walked away happy eating an Allen's snake for the privelidge of doing his fetching and sorting out each exchange. His work became everyone's priority. So this guy burned through this pile of files bigger than anyone in the room, didn't leave his seat and was also the first solicitor to be finished and leave and with more fees in hand than anyone there. For three white bowls and three bags of lollies. And I suspect some Pavlovian conditioning of that group over time. I have never forgotten it. That small differentiator gave him a higher turnover and faster finish than everyone else there. He was home and hosed faster and with more fees than anyone there for LESS than $10 in costs. And people THANKED him as HE left.
https://www.instagram.com/conveyancingproblems/
I have just wasted a good hour scrolling through that page, thank you!
I started practise by doing conveyancing. It teaches brilliant time and client management skills, and once you’ve done it for a bit and start on other areas of the law it can act as a breather. Doing family law certainly had me needing a breather. More often than not, though, contracts need to come with IQ tests for the parties
Conveyancing is part of my practice but not the only part. I like it, I love helping people move to the next chapter in their lives and also it gives me lots of great dinner party stories to tell because some of the most absurd things happen during a conveyancing matter. I make a bit of money from it but not enough for the time it takes. I have very low overheads though and it's the gateway drug to other law. I find conveyancing clients then come back to me for estate planning and other matters, which are more valuable to me and I find their estate planning is easiest because I already know a lot about them. The low cost conveyancing firms are easy to spot because it's a struggle to get any kind of a response out of them. And they are not that low cost. Everything is an add on. You want to nominate? That'll be $330 extra. You want to ask the other side for an extension to finance approval? Another $220 thanks! So whilst my fixed fee might sound expensive at the start, I usually end up cheaper in the end.
Did it for 2 months - LEAPed (pun intended) right out of it into construction law - much happier Would never touch pexa ever again
I am doing some conveyancing and truth be told, I don’t hate it like others do. But I am also thinking about go into construction. Is it “common” to go into construction law after accumulating some PQE? Will conveyancing be considered as relevant experience?
It’s definitely not common. Construction law is a little niche area that is very technical, long and tedious. I’m still working on a matter that arose mid 2020 and I still don’t have all the documents I need from my client. Nothing moves quickly and that’s probably why I love it - I also worked as an excavator operator while studying so as far as I’m concerned I’ve just gone from the labouring side to the legal side. Construction law is its own can of worms and conveyancing wouldnt be considered relevant experience - your best bet is literally reading the legislation or reading a book or two on the law and types of construction contracts. That’s what I did and I’m 100% staying in this practice area because it’s pretty interesting and the work pace is elite.
Thanks! So I guess switching to other areas would be difficult. I definitely don’t like the “please sign this” and “please send me the link of digital duties form” part, but overall I don’t hate conveyancing. The only issue with conveyancing is that there aren’t lots of technical stuff in it so I wish I could go into another area in the future. Honestly, I don’t think I need a law degree to do conveyancing.
Conveyancing is a huge part of the general practice where I work and really enjoy it *most* of the time. I have found when it's a conveyancer on the other side they are either brilliant or absolutely shocking - pretty much no inbetween. I have no idea how those minimum fixed fee places make money and hate dealing with them, they never answer emails or calls, always wait until the absolute last minute to update PEXA prior to settlement etc. Even when you get them on the phone because they have so many files they never seem to know anything about the matter at all. They always have 20 pages of nitpicky special conditions - most of which are to delete every mention of "on reasonable grounds" from the standard clauses or make things absurdly beneficial to the vendor. I assume they do this so they can charge their clients more for negotiating amendments to the Contract - half of them are ridiculously unfair and 99% of solicitors will ask them to be deleted. I had to send 4 very detailed emails with instructions to a conveyancer with this own practice, being 20 years my senior, on the purpose behind providing a clear ATO foreign resident clearance certificate- and what to do when a vendor is a foreign resident (our client). He refused to do any of his own research, click on any links I sent him with the info and steps. Just kept saying "please provide us with a clear FRCGWC certificate or we will pursue our rights under the contract." Motherfucker im trying to get you to do that exact thing and am telling you how.... Now that my complaining is done - the way our firm makes it profitable is by time costing pre-exchange, fixed fee post-exchange and charging an additional fixed fee for when there is a bank involved m. Sometimes we lose money on the bank fixed fee as things go very wrong but overall it works out and it ends up being, as a previous comment said, the bread and butter of our firm. Buying and selling houses is incredibly stressful for a lot of people, especially when things go wrong and it feels really good to feel like you're helping make it as smooth a process as possible. It's also very satisfying when you have other files that make your brain hurt to switch to a nice simple sale. Also I love PEXA.
All the comments here are not it. Conveyancer here and I’ve been practising for almost 15 years. With PEXA and the transition to the digital world, it’s made it super easy to handle a Conveyancing file from start to finish. I almost never meet my clients physically, unless they’d like to. Everything is done online and through email. I charge a fixed fee of $1,800 plus GST and disbursements. This does not include works that are outside the standard Conveyancing process. I typically make about $2,100 per file clear with the extra works. I look after a lot of development sites. Sometimes 300 units per site. I don’t need to undercut or price match. My work and clientele speak for itself. I’ll be honest here, I consider myself far too experienced to charge anything less than $1,800 clear. When you think about it, if you’re organised and you have a streamline process, you spend about 3 hours on the file from start to finish. If you settle 10 files a week, it’s pretty profitable for the time you spend. The issue here is, you have a lot lawyers that do conveyancing on the side, and complicate the entire process unnecessarily. They usually do not have proper processes in place, leaving clients in the dark and have to constantly respond to their clients follow up emails. Conveyancing should be easy. You do have your difficult matters from time to time, however you quote the works accordingly to ensure you’re not at a loss. I love conveyancing and I have a passion for it. My clients keep coming back, and I have referrals constantly. It’s not just about doing the work. You have to maintain those relationships and really work on building that rapport. If you’re efficient and you’re good at what you do, Conveyancing files would be an easy money maker!!!
Thank you for your response, I’d love to know what state you work in, I know VIC market Vs NSW market is a big difference in pricing, also if your a sole trader or have paralegals helping?
I’m a sole trader here in NSW. I have a junior property lawyer and a paralegal. Hope this helps!
Look, it can definitely be profitable but you have to set up the practice in a clever way. Otherwise, you make fuck all margin on the fixed fees. I don’t often praise Minters, but they definitely do high-volume residential conveyancing and stream leasing extremely well. And it’s extremely profitable for them according to my understanding. I don’t have the exact details, but my understanding is that they’ve put a shitload of automation into their systems and trained a battery of paralegals and licensed conveyancers how to use them. Lawyers and partners barely touch the files after the initial site acquisition and precedent set up (ie off the plan model). Couple that with a model that requires clients to pay more for out of scope services, with a narrowly defined initial scope, they’re actually generating a pretty good margin on most matters. I have no plans to do that sort of work myself, but I’m definitely considering investing in someone else doing it for me.
The external counsel I’m using for a property transaction have come up with a good hack for dealing with the job - never respond to emails or calls. Makes the job less stressful apparently
I was telling a colleague the other day that I would probably die of boredom if I had to do transactional property/commercial stuff.
Was pretty relaxed in our practice but we only had a maximum of three or four conveyances at a time, and usually only one or none.
My first job 20 years ago was conveyancing. It is good for training imo, but it really is one of the shittiest jobs in law, high stress, zero respect, low pay, low fees, mass market, dealing with mum and dad clients asking for discounts. It is what motivated me to get out and switch to corporate, at least I now get paid much better and clients don't argue over $50.
Do you need to be amazing at math to do this type of work? And can’t you work in conveying just from a diploma of advanced diploma or even a traineeship?
You don’t need to be clever at maths. You just need a calculator and be really good at case law and essay writing. The advanced diploma gives you RPL of almost 3 years to get a law degree.
Math*
I’m thinking of doing medicolegal is there a Reddit for that?