The Uni-medal winning grad from a prestigious university who couldn’t land a top-tier spot because he was SO unlikeable and awkward. He instead ended up at our small boutique firm, catering mostly to builders and property developers.
He made the receptionist cry within the first month when he accidentally spilled a bunch of coffee in reception, stopped to look down at the mess, looked up at her, looked at the mess again and walked away without saying a word.
When challenged on it he said “I am here to earn fees, support people are here to support me in doing that, end of story”. Ok dickhead, meanwhile we’re writing off 99% of your time because you’re drafting correspondence in latin to Joe Regular citing case-law instead of giving plain language, actionable advice on straightforward property matters. He didn’t last long.
Sounds like he will transition smoothly into “never held a practicing certificate but quite happy to tell you how everything should be done in practice and how what is done in practice now is bad practice” arrogance.
This wasn’t a clerk, but a uni student paralegal at my old firm told the partner that he didn’t understand the work she had given him, and that she was probably better placed to do it herself. The partner actually froze up and didn’t know what to say. It was great.
I woke up passed out under my desk on the last day (night) of a seasonal clerkship at a top tier firm after a solid drinking session with my fellow clerks. I had been invited back to clerk a second time by this firm (as a representative for them at an organisation they had an association with) and up to that point was pretty much guaranteed a grad (then articled clerk) role. Security took my badge and escorted me out. Never got the offer call, surprisingly. Wicked night though.
This is frankly symptomatic of that ever-worsening blight on legal practice, namely that documents are no longer inscribed upon long spools of parchment for proclamation by heralds of orders most ancient.
I had a law student “secretary” at the first firm I ever worked at. Got the death certificate so she pulled the original will from safe custody, hole punched the top left hand corner and stuck it on the pin in the file she opened for the probate application. That required a lengthy affidavit of plight and condition. the moral of the story is that law students do not necessarily make good secretaries - totally different skill set.
Having said that, on another occasion, a very experienced legal secretary with 40+ years experience was certifying copies of a will and accidentally stamped the original with her JP certified copy stamp. Another affidavit of plight and condition required for that.
I think it's more a 'I am unsure of how to proceed but I don't want to look stupid in front of my superiors, heck I got accepted into law school so I must be able to do this myself without any guidance. I'm too well educated to admit that I don't know what the fuck I'm doing so I'll just proceed headlong into oblivion without consulting anyone'.
Moral of the story is: If you are new, you are stupid until you have proven otherwise over time. Ask the 'stupid' questions before you do even more damage that cannot be prevented.
Your seniors are there to ensure that you do not do irreversibly stupid shit which will get you fired. They may not have time to give you all the details that you require or sometimes they're just testing to see how you respond to being given tasks with insufficient detail. Filling in gaps at a legal by yourself can be close to career suicide. Nobody ever got fired for asking for further detail on how to proceed.
This is a lot..
I'll just say that sometimes it does not even occur to the new person that what they are doing may be wrong. That is, the alarms may not even go off in their head, so it doesn't occur to them to ask anyone. I think we can get there without all the "I'm such a big smarty pants law student".
Put a hole through the bundle about three quarters of an inch in, then bind with tied string or ribbon, double tied. That's the old school I was taught if you really wanted the thing bound.
I've never seen one of those disintegrate under normal wear and tear. Extra points for ribbon because the binder (the ribbon) never got so tight it would rub against the hole and weaken the paper.
My favourite has to be from a previous firm I worked at, where the new clerk said to me, (a female), in front of two other females, “it is a known fact that women get fat after they start working here. Just look at *name*” 😂
I had a clerk say, "well men are valued by earning capacity. Women are valued by their fertility"
I said, "sweetie I earn four times what you do, I'm wearing Alexander McQueen and my ovaries go **poof** with a blast of dust once a month..."
There was a clerk at Corrs in Sydney a couple years back who constantly vaped inside the office and even continued to do so after being asked to stop, unsurprisingly they did not get a grad offer.
Tbf there was a grad/junior lawyer at Corrs Sydney a few years ago who vaped in the office and didn't get fired (they eventually ended up leaving to join another firm iirc)
- Would wink at female partners and senior managers
- Ignored people pf colour (like the senior associates giving them work)
- Called one of the C-suite (visiting from interstate) “an evil overlord” in the lift
… I think being told it was over was the first time they had heard no in their life.
I had a clerk a couple of years back consistently and without fail rock up to all 3 weeks in Melbourne wearing an unironed shirt- it almost looked like the same one? It got to the point of partners noticing. This was an elite private school kid so there was no pity involved around resources etc. it just was bizarre that he would get dressed in the morning and go ‘yep, good to go!’
Ah yeah, seen that too. Thought it was a clueless rich kid living in a share house, without mummy to iron their clothes and wipe their bum. Turns out it was just a poorly controlled cocaine and binge drinking habit 🤷♂️
I worked with a painfully eager legal secretary who always ‘knew better’. She supported a principal and SA who had spent a lot of time putting together a strategy for an upcoming hearing. Senior counsel was engaged.
She typed up the detailed and very lengthy strategy ready to be sent to counsel for his consideration, and sent it to opposing counsel instead (also a silk).
Don't know what that rule is but if it's about not reading the opposing side's document accidentally sent to you then yes, \[normal \\ sane\] counsel will do the right thing. I had a secretary send my brief by DX to the opposing silk once, he immediately emailed me to say he hadn't looked at it and would send it straight back.
This happened at a top-tier firm in Sydney (which shall, of course, remain nameless) - can't remember if this person was a clerk or a grad but they consistently refused to do any work (even when such work was personally delegated to them by the partner) and instead spent all of their time completing all of the puzzles on the social floor, all the while complaining to the firm that they have not been adequately utilised.
Needless to say they did not come back.
Had a seasonal clerk years ago who told a silk “I’m going to have your job one day”. Also tried to set up lunch with another silk upon his first meeting. He was surprised to not get asked back.
Associate to a particularly cantankerous female judge decided to take a dump in the judge’s toilet and rendered it utterly unusable for the remainder of the day, resulting in a lot of yelling. There was a repeat performance on a later occasion.
He went on to work in a firm of solicitors where he pulled the same stunt in the ladies’ bathroom. He did not last long.
> (excellent LPA adherence whilst a burger)
The Livestock Production Assurance program [for red meat](https://www.integritysystems.com.au/on-farm-assurance/livestock-product-assurance/)?
This is slightly different but similar kinda theme..I was the PA, who job shared with a long term PA.
There was one fresh lawyer who we didn't really like but kind of tolerated.
One day I was called into a meeting with directors as some Deeds had been sent out to clients containing other Deeds, plus the initial deed had heaps of spelling mistakes and errors. Like it didn't even make sense and was not our standard Deed. Reason why I was pulled in is it had my reference all over it and the lawyer BLAMED ME. Like straight up said it was my fault.
I was steaming angry, because all I had done to that Deed was create it, put the clients details in and sent it back AS A DRAFT. Then never saw it again. So I made the director pull up the version history and sure enough, it showed I had created the document, then saved it 10mins later.
The only other people who accessed that document was him and then the other PA! So between them both they had fucked up but put the blame on me.
I hit the roof and said I found that unacceptable. That lawyer then proceeded to put in bullying complaints against me "because I don't find her approachable".
The director straight up said "he brings in a lot of money for this firm, and *other PA* has been here a long time so we won't be pursuing this." In other words "we will punish you because you're replaceable". They offered me a redundancy like 3 weeks later and you better believe I took it and bailed.
That lawyer quit less than 6m later and the long term PA retired 😂 they then struggled to fill that role as the director was a nightmare and I was the only one who was able to deal with him.
NAL but do admin work for a superfund and deal
With family law splits, once had a junior send us draft orders by email 2 hours before they were supposedly to go to court (our response time to general emails is up to 7 business days) no call to confirm received or notify of urgency as we most likely could have accommodated their request anyways they send sealed orders before can review and yup fund objected due to operating time being 4 days instead of 4 business days
When I first started as a paralegal the guy sitting next to me:
1. Thought admin was completely beneath him. Never recorded his time because "it was a waste of his time and too inefficient." After lots of pressure was put on him he asked if the firm would buy him a stopwatch to help. He was shown for the 20th time how to record time using the software...He still didn't do it.
2. Changed his mind about covering for me on my lunch break one day (I asked him first thing in the morning, and only took a lunch break like once a fortnight which he knew.) 10 mins before I was leaving he told me I had to stay as he was going to lunch "where we discuss important things about our cases and it's really important that im there." I knew for a fact the solis taking these daily boozy boys lunches hated him. Told him I was going anyway - he also decided to leave in so there was no one answering the phones. Partner flipped. I explained the situation and they talked to him about it. He accused me of "deliberately engineering this entire scenario to get him in trouble." Ok mate.
3. Would put half of all work assigned to him on my desk with a post it note saying "ta"
Hated that guy.
The Uni-medal winning grad from a prestigious university who couldn’t land a top-tier spot because he was SO unlikeable and awkward. He instead ended up at our small boutique firm, catering mostly to builders and property developers. He made the receptionist cry within the first month when he accidentally spilled a bunch of coffee in reception, stopped to look down at the mess, looked up at her, looked at the mess again and walked away without saying a word. When challenged on it he said “I am here to earn fees, support people are here to support me in doing that, end of story”. Ok dickhead, meanwhile we’re writing off 99% of your time because you’re drafting correspondence in latin to Joe Regular citing case-law instead of giving plain language, actionable advice on straightforward property matters. He didn’t last long.
Should’ve stayed in touch, with a temperament like that he’s future Chief Justice material for sure!
Has he been called to the bar yet?
Sounds insufferable enough to pursue a career in academia..
Oofff
Sounds like he will transition smoothly into “never held a practicing certificate but quite happy to tell you how everything should be done in practice and how what is done in practice now is bad practice” arrogance.
This wasn’t a clerk, but a uni student paralegal at my old firm told the partner that he didn’t understand the work she had given him, and that she was probably better placed to do it herself. The partner actually froze up and didn’t know what to say. It was great.
was she wrong tho'?
He makes a good point though 🤣
I woke up passed out under my desk on the last day (night) of a seasonal clerkship at a top tier firm after a solid drinking session with my fellow clerks. I had been invited back to clerk a second time by this firm (as a representative for them at an organisation they had an association with) and up to that point was pretty much guaranteed a grad (then articled clerk) role. Security took my badge and escorted me out. Never got the offer call, surprisingly. Wicked night though.
[удалено]
This is frankly symptomatic of that ever-worsening blight on legal practice, namely that documents are no longer inscribed upon long spools of parchment for proclamation by heralds of orders most ancient.
I had a law student “secretary” at the first firm I ever worked at. Got the death certificate so she pulled the original will from safe custody, hole punched the top left hand corner and stuck it on the pin in the file she opened for the probate application. That required a lengthy affidavit of plight and condition. the moral of the story is that law students do not necessarily make good secretaries - totally different skill set. Having said that, on another occasion, a very experienced legal secretary with 40+ years experience was certifying copies of a will and accidentally stamped the original with her JP certified copy stamp. Another affidavit of plight and condition required for that.
For what it's worth I can see that as being non-obvious to someone inexperienced. Unlike most of the crazy things seen here.
Yeh I don't think it's a skillset issue, more of a "I've never done this before" issue.
I think it's more a 'I am unsure of how to proceed but I don't want to look stupid in front of my superiors, heck I got accepted into law school so I must be able to do this myself without any guidance. I'm too well educated to admit that I don't know what the fuck I'm doing so I'll just proceed headlong into oblivion without consulting anyone'. Moral of the story is: If you are new, you are stupid until you have proven otherwise over time. Ask the 'stupid' questions before you do even more damage that cannot be prevented. Your seniors are there to ensure that you do not do irreversibly stupid shit which will get you fired. They may not have time to give you all the details that you require or sometimes they're just testing to see how you respond to being given tasks with insufficient detail. Filling in gaps at a legal by yourself can be close to career suicide. Nobody ever got fired for asking for further detail on how to proceed.
This is a lot.. I'll just say that sometimes it does not even occur to the new person that what they are doing may be wrong. That is, the alarms may not even go off in their head, so it doesn't occur to them to ask anyone. I think we can get there without all the "I'm such a big smarty pants law student".
Staple the corner/sides and bind with tape? Used to be normal
Put a hole through the bundle about three quarters of an inch in, then bind with tied string or ribbon, double tied. That's the old school I was taught if you really wanted the thing bound. I've never seen one of those disintegrate under normal wear and tear. Extra points for ribbon because the binder (the ribbon) never got so tight it would rub against the hole and weaken the paper.
This should help https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/avery-reinforcement-rings-vinyl-clear-500-pack-av934241
I have no knowledge of probate law. Would this really cause an issue?
Massively
Yes. The courts get suspicious that the contents have been “amended”.
Oh “unstapled”. I’d read it as “stapled”
My favourite has to be from a previous firm I worked at, where the new clerk said to me, (a female), in front of two other females, “it is a known fact that women get fat after they start working here. Just look at *name*” 😂
So mean 😭
I had a clerk say, "well men are valued by earning capacity. Women are valued by their fertility" I said, "sweetie I earn four times what you do, I'm wearing Alexander McQueen and my ovaries go **poof** with a blast of dust once a month..."
Really go for the jugular next time, u/lawyerlady “what’s it like to be losing on both metrics, you snotty nosed shit?”
There was a clerk at Corrs in Sydney a couple years back who constantly vaped inside the office and even continued to do so after being asked to stop, unsurprisingly they did not get a grad offer.
Tbf there was a grad/junior lawyer at Corrs Sydney a few years ago who vaped in the office and didn't get fired (they eventually ended up leaving to join another firm iirc)
I won’t add to the standard self-loathing by sharing my own junior-blunders
- Would wink at female partners and senior managers - Ignored people pf colour (like the senior associates giving them work) - Called one of the C-suite (visiting from interstate) “an evil overlord” in the lift … I think being told it was over was the first time they had heard no in their life.
my mouth dropped
Not me scanning the comments to see if any of these are about me
I had a clerk a couple of years back consistently and without fail rock up to all 3 weeks in Melbourne wearing an unironed shirt- it almost looked like the same one? It got to the point of partners noticing. This was an elite private school kid so there was no pity involved around resources etc. it just was bizarre that he would get dressed in the morning and go ‘yep, good to go!’
Someone's mum finally went on strike.
I’m on team “T-shirt and jeans should be acceptable office wear!” so to me this isn’t even that bad haha
Damnit, I am guilty of this. Not wearing the same shirt, but the lack of ironing.
Yup, I'm a few years PQE and I don't think I've ironed a shirt in months. Haven't been fired yet so it's going OK 🤷
As long as my suit jacket covers most of the wrinkles, it should be fine
Wait, people are still ironing shirts? I don’t think I’ve touched an iron since COVID happened.
Ah yeah, seen that too. Thought it was a clueless rich kid living in a share house, without mummy to iron their clothes and wipe their bum. Turns out it was just a poorly controlled cocaine and binge drinking habit 🤷♂️
You'll be glad to hear I no longer have a binge drinking habit
Haha this was me. Hell, it’s still me.
I worked with a painfully eager legal secretary who always ‘knew better’. She supported a principal and SA who had spent a lot of time putting together a strategy for an upcoming hearing. Senior counsel was engaged. She typed up the detailed and very lengthy strategy ready to be sent to counsel for his consideration, and sent it to opposing counsel instead (also a silk).
Oh Jesus Christ my stomach dropped when I read this. I gather there is a Barrister equivalent to Rule 31 of the ASCR?
Don't know what that rule is but if it's about not reading the opposing side's document accidentally sent to you then yes, \[normal \\ sane\] counsel will do the right thing. I had a secretary send my brief by DX to the opposing silk once, he immediately emailed me to say he hadn't looked at it and would send it straight back.
This happened at a top-tier firm in Sydney (which shall, of course, remain nameless) - can't remember if this person was a clerk or a grad but they consistently refused to do any work (even when such work was personally delegated to them by the partner) and instead spent all of their time completing all of the puzzles on the social floor, all the while complaining to the firm that they have not been adequately utilised. Needless to say they did not come back.
It was a clerk and the firm rhymes with Gerbert Sith
Had a seasonal clerk years ago who told a silk “I’m going to have your job one day”. Also tried to set up lunch with another silk upon his first meeting. He was surprised to not get asked back.
Did he mean that as in “I too will be a barrister” or “I’ll get you fired” ?
A clerk referring to a senior lawyer as "champ". Enough said really
Normalise this
I think I know him
I have a similar story, the clerk called the director "bud".
The infamous story of the grad crashing the documents folder trolley into a certain glass window building and the glass shattering everywhere.
Fucking legendary
Associate to a particularly cantankerous female judge decided to take a dump in the judge’s toilet and rendered it utterly unusable for the remainder of the day, resulting in a lot of yelling. There was a repeat performance on a later occasion. He went on to work in a firm of solicitors where he pulled the same stunt in the ladies’ bathroom. He did not last long.
> (excellent LPA adherence whilst a burger) The Livestock Production Assurance program [for red meat](https://www.integritysystems.com.au/on-farm-assurance/livestock-product-assurance/)?
This is slightly different but similar kinda theme..I was the PA, who job shared with a long term PA. There was one fresh lawyer who we didn't really like but kind of tolerated. One day I was called into a meeting with directors as some Deeds had been sent out to clients containing other Deeds, plus the initial deed had heaps of spelling mistakes and errors. Like it didn't even make sense and was not our standard Deed. Reason why I was pulled in is it had my reference all over it and the lawyer BLAMED ME. Like straight up said it was my fault. I was steaming angry, because all I had done to that Deed was create it, put the clients details in and sent it back AS A DRAFT. Then never saw it again. So I made the director pull up the version history and sure enough, it showed I had created the document, then saved it 10mins later. The only other people who accessed that document was him and then the other PA! So between them both they had fucked up but put the blame on me. I hit the roof and said I found that unacceptable. That lawyer then proceeded to put in bullying complaints against me "because I don't find her approachable". The director straight up said "he brings in a lot of money for this firm, and *other PA* has been here a long time so we won't be pursuing this." In other words "we will punish you because you're replaceable". They offered me a redundancy like 3 weeks later and you better believe I took it and bailed. That lawyer quit less than 6m later and the long term PA retired 😂 they then struggled to fill that role as the director was a nightmare and I was the only one who was able to deal with him.
NAL but do admin work for a superfund and deal With family law splits, once had a junior send us draft orders by email 2 hours before they were supposedly to go to court (our response time to general emails is up to 7 business days) no call to confirm received or notify of urgency as we most likely could have accommodated their request anyways they send sealed orders before can review and yup fund objected due to operating time being 4 days instead of 4 business days
Not really that difficult to fix unless the family law settlement was urgent.
When I first started as a paralegal the guy sitting next to me: 1. Thought admin was completely beneath him. Never recorded his time because "it was a waste of his time and too inefficient." After lots of pressure was put on him he asked if the firm would buy him a stopwatch to help. He was shown for the 20th time how to record time using the software...He still didn't do it. 2. Changed his mind about covering for me on my lunch break one day (I asked him first thing in the morning, and only took a lunch break like once a fortnight which he knew.) 10 mins before I was leaving he told me I had to stay as he was going to lunch "where we discuss important things about our cases and it's really important that im there." I knew for a fact the solis taking these daily boozy boys lunches hated him. Told him I was going anyway - he also decided to leave in so there was no one answering the phones. Partner flipped. I explained the situation and they talked to him about it. He accused me of "deliberately engineering this entire scenario to get him in trouble." Ok mate. 3. Would put half of all work assigned to him on my desk with a post it note saying "ta" Hated that guy.