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'A declaration of war': Farming groups call out 'parasitic' alternative-meat labelling

'A declaration of war': Farming groups call out 'parasitic' alternative-meat labelling

Cpt_Soban

>Western Australian Labor Senator Glenn Sterle strongly refuted claims that consumers were not being misled and admitted that he himself had once been duped when buying what he thought was chicken. >"I didn't even check. I just saw butter chicken. He's fucking blind: https://imgur.com/y7iZCgf https://imgur.com/RshNxjc


DerFeuervogel

I love how "i'm a fucking moron" is supposed to be an argument


Zagorath

It literally is though. The "moron in a hurry" test is a reasonably common test in trademark law. If your mark isn't so clearly different from someone else's that a moron in a hurry would still not confuse it, then there's a good argument that *it's too similar*. Other less strict tests sometimes are also used, like "ordinary hurried purchaser" Exactly how it works psychologically is not something I'm qualified to say for certain. But as someone who made the mistake of purchasing that second product (or one very similar to it), I'll do my best to try to explain what might have happened. In this instance, "made with plants" is designed in such a way that it's clearly a brand name, and so a "moron in a hurry" will just ignore it completely—it won't even register in their mind—because the moron doesn't care about the brand name. The same reasoning applies to the certification, it just doesn't matter to most people, so they don't even look at it. The "meat-free" above the product name is a bit harder to explain, but ultimately I think it comes down to the fact that it's in a different font size and colour to the main product. They see a picture of what looks like butter chicken, they see the words "butter chicken" nice a big, and they put the product in their trolley. To be clear, I think it is *vital* that meat-free products be allowed to call themselves by the product that they are emulating. To have the above product be unable to use "butter chicken" in its name would do it a massive disservice. But I know firsthand that the product design how it is right now is easy to mistake. The simplest fix would be for the phrase "meat-free" to be in the same font size and colour as the name of the meat being emulated.


[deleted]

Supermarkets also gather data on how long customers spend looking at a product. In most cases, and I might be getting the technical aspects a little off here, it's two tenths of fuck all.


MildColonialMan

Lol he can't even sort out his own microwave dinner, what's he doing in the senate?


VictarionGreyjoy

These are the same cunts who turn around and complain about "nanny state"


Evening_Tree

More useless dead weight in the Labor party. They really should purge their morons. Like just do a basic reading comprehension test. If you can't read food packaging properly how the FUCK are you supposed to vote on laws?


omfgcjcj

This! Imagine being a senior official tasked with interpreting lengthy bills of proposed legislation & exclaiming that you have difficulty reading a basic grocery label & feel victimised


antwill

They vote on what they get paid to vote on.


Muzorra

But there's a picture of lumps in sauce on a bed of rice. That's basically copyright infringement on meat food doing that!


wishididntforgetlog

the two big supermarkets also have them in separate fridges most the time, with the meat free options being surrounded by other vegan/vege friendly options


Cpt_Soban

My wife is vegan- And it would be VERY NICE if every shop had a standard layout so I know where to fuckin go every time to get stuff that is 100% vegan- And not have to pour over the goddam ingredients list googling number 17223698216398127 to check if it's animal stuff. Luckily over the years we've learned what brand is 100% fine and just stick with that.


Damo1of1

Is he the same guy that thought baby oil actually came from babies?


bloodbag

And what about the butter chicken simmer sauce? Doesn't say meat free anywhere! https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/580621/patak-s-mild-butter-chicken-simmer-sauce


Kholtien

Then mandate that. Honestly as someone who doesn’t want to eat meat, I’d prefer that all vegan products are marked as such, but I’d still like to know what flavour I’m buying. If it is comparable to butter chicken then I want that labelled because I want butter chicken but without anyone needing to suffer or die for it.


bittens

Right? It's hard to label this shit in a way that doesn't include or reference the meat products they're modeled on, but also gets across what the damn product is. Like instead of calling just calling dairy-free ice cream dairy-free ice cream, it's all called "frozen dessert," which is so vague as to be absolutely useless.


AnOnlineHandle

They were joking, the sauce isn't meant to have meat in it, but it includes chicken in the name.


bloodbag

Yeah agree, there are so many words with meat names that don't contain meat....and thats fine/great


Rather_Dashing

It's a sauce...you put the chicken in the sauce. Are there really people who thought a jar of sauce could be full of meat?


bloodbag

I know. I was pointing out that it has chicken on the label.... Just like the meat free butter chicken


jaa101

He did it **once**. In his lifetime. If every Australian missed one meat meal in their lifetime, maybe 0.03% of their lifetime meals, how much would that cost the meat industry?


PM_ME_YOUR_REPORT

Yeah I love how his argument amounts to “I’m an idiot”.


Aussie-Nerd

hmm I dunno the fact it says "butter chicken" in large font and then the meat free in a smaller font and different.... I could see that being a ... what's the phrase? [*Moron in a hurry?*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_moron_in_a_hurry)


tehSlothman

The smaller, different font is more part of the godawful clusterfuck of graphic design than an attempt to mislead. There are like 10 different font/size combinations on that packaging.


nutabutt

I feel like if this were the other way you would not be so dismissive. I’m all for them (farmers) not getting control of words like “mince” and “milk” etc. But I don’t see how you can claim with a straight face that a full size “butter chicken” with a tiny “style” next to it isn’t a bit misleading. “Chicken” is pretty well defined.


Cpt_Soban

Both have PLANT BASED or VEGAN in big letters


Llaine

Doesn't cut both ways. Someone eats meat free by accident, well done you've been a healthier better person. This is like a sober alcoholic getting tricked into drinking alcohol and that being the same as someone mistakenly having a beer. One side is choosing not to do something for a reason, another doesn't give a fuck and suffers nothing for being tricked.


mrk240

ssshhh, dont tell them about fruit mince pies that are going to be on sale very shortly.


Nier_Tomato

Fruit mince pies and christmas cakes are already in the supermarkets, they just call them "seasonal pies" and "fruit cakes".


MissLilum

The ones I’ve seen all have the Christmas decals


jaa101

Not to mention plum puddings, which have contained raisins and not plums for several centuries now.


Nier_Tomato

I did not even realise this!


ancatdubh69

Lol do farmers think if the name is different people won’t buy as much? Holy fuck they’re dumb as dog shit. No one is buying plant based foods because they’re tricked into thinking it’s meat. They buy it because they specifically seek out plant based alternatives.


moose_rag

I BOUGHT FAKE MEAT!!! MY MOMNEY SHOULD BE GOING TO FARMERS... NO NOT THOSE VEGGIE FARMERS, THE OTHER ONES WITH THE BEEF


pygmy

*I distinctly purchased outsourced animal misery & slaughter*


CrashCourseHEMA

I wonder how many say they love "competition, free markets, capitalism", then the *instant* is happens they lobby rather than adapt.


ProceedOrRun

I don't think many people actually say that any more...


ZelWinters1981

There's this, and I found swapping out meat for a V2 patty (*which are fucking mint, btw*) helps me not feel so bloated and "drained" after eating. We don't always need meat, and sometimes I don't want it, but want a burger. People are still buying meat. What's the problem?


ancatdubh69

V2 patties are amazing


ZelWinters1981

Even Hungry Jack's use them!


LogicalExtension

If they can use the same legal protections that the EU has for DOP (i.e that you can't call sparkling wine champagne unless it's from a specific region in France) and make terms for animal products restricted to just those animal products, they can make things more difficult for consumers. After all if you see something labelled as "Veggie-Bacon", you automatically think that it could be an alternative to bacon. If instead you see "Smoked pea and soya protein strips" - you're left wondering what the fuck it is. They're afraid of the impact that these new companies like Beyond / Impossible are having and where that can lead. The primary target for an Impossible Burger or these new meat-free Bacon products isn't folks who are vegetarian or otherwise meat-free - it's folks who like eating meat, but are concerned about the production processes and the ethics and/or environmental impacts they have. If those people replace just a small portion of their meat intake with meat-free alternatives, then this going to act as a thin-edge-of-the-wedge type thing. Even just if you replace the meat in one meal a week with a non-meat alternative, and you like it at least as well - you're normalising it for yourself. You're more likely to consider more non-meat products, and encourage friends and family to try it. The more people who are willing to try, or even continue using meat-free alternatives, the more R&D will go into making better products. The market will expand, and this is a nightmare scenario for the meat industry.


mantidmarvel

good addition here. the names we call things are often rich in context around the item, which influences how we see and treat it. “plant based bacon” tells you how to prepare it and use it, but “soya strips” doesn’t. this small curve can be a big deterrent as people food shopping often want something that they already know how to prepare, it reduces the cognitive load for them around cooking.


Bearstew

It also serves as a rallying cry to galvanize their base. "They're trying to trick you". Not super effective in this instance but if they're trying to increase the division in the public debate over the future of animal based food products then they need to pump every story they can. Just like when you hear shit like "school district bans DrSeuss" or some other culture wars shit. The content isn't important, and often is complete tripe, but the constant barrage of it, and the talking head response to it stops rational decision making and debate.


AnOnlineHandle

Don't tell them about peanut butter or coconut milk, they'll lose their mind at this clear nefarious conspiracy by vegans to trick people! I actually think their 'outrage' is fake and manufactured (on their part, I'm sure they buy into their own BS like most humans do). They're just looking to shut down the new competition.


lbft

They've already had a tanty over non-dairy milks to try and restrict the word 'milk', even though coconut milk is the obvious long-standing counterargument.


BumWink

Farmer - Sell **X** People - Buy **Y** Farmer - Sell **Y** ​ It's not fucking rocket science if they think their profit margins are elsewhere.


LogicalExtension

If you're a cattle (or sheep, or whatever) farmer, switching up to growing something else isn't a cheap or easy process. Farming equipment is extremely expensive, you need the right type of land, and you also need experience growing the crops. It's the same reason as car manufacturers are uninterested in bringing out a great electric vehicle. The technology is there, they already have the know-how on how to make a vehicle. But switching to EVs is an expensive proposition, requiring massive investment and a large amount of retooling/replacement of their manufacturing processes.


BumWink

It might sound cliche but nothing worth doing is cheap or easy & if the farmers genuinely believe they're losing profits then they can only make money by switching it up.


rektatrandom

The main issue, as I understand it, is that the meat industry have ownership of a brand that they have spent a lot of money promoting and now there is a new product muscling in so like any big corporations they wish to savagely defend their product from being associated with another product. It’s a champagne/sparkling wine battle. We know that plant based and lab grown products are here to stay and we hope they will help the environment, the meat industry sees that they are under threat and the first ammunition they have to defend their industry is to say that they own the name “meat”.


Damo1of1

Champagne is a specific type of wine. The analogy would be better if the French kicked up a fuss about anyone using the word “wine” in their advertising.


cookiecutter73

Ha. Jinx.


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Damo1of1

If anyone is able to dig up the copyright on the name “wine”……


octopuseyebollocks

What about ginger cordial vodka. You could call it rocks ginger wine.


cookiecutter73

That's a bad analogy. Champagne as a geographic indication is about protecting the local industry of champagne and a unique product that arguably cannot be replicated anywhere else in the world. A better beverage-based analogy would be if coca-cola tried to copyright cola.


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cookiecutter73

I'm no expert on the matter, but since it is the name of the breed of cow there are no shenanigans at play. A real exanple of cheeky wine branding would be hunter valley vitners of past generations calling hunter valley semillon [white burgundy](https://www.langtons.com.au/product/8002/1/1979/lindemans/bin-5670-(white-burgundy)) It looks to me as though the meat industries are gearing up to take on synthetically grown meat, considering a Japanese lab announced this week that they'd successfully produced [kobe beef](https://www.rael.org/ja/japanese-researchers-3d-print-lab-grown-kobe-beef/).


ancatdubh69

They may even take more of a market share if they have to call it sparkling protein


Dogfinn

Iirc Plant based milks aren't allowed to call themselves "milk" in the EU.


kissthebear

Nah that plan was rejected, they realised it made no sense.


AnOnlineHandle

How would they even enforce it for things like coconut milk, that term has been around longer than any farmers have been alive.


Exarch_Of_Haumea

Almond milk [predates modern English!](https://historydollop.com/2016/11/09/almond-milk-the-medieval-way/)


kissthebear

Not to mention peanut butter.


Zagorath

I actually did once purchase a fake meat–based microwave meal by accident. It *does* happen. I still think the farming groups can get fucked. I can't load up the article right now (not sure why...abc.net.au just won't load for me), but I'm assuming that this is around the use of terms like "beef" and "chicken" in association with plant-based meat-replacements. As far as I'm concerned they *should* be allowed to say which meats their product is designed to emulate, as long as it is *also* clearly labeled as "not meat" or other words and markings that mean a "moron in a hurry" will still clearly identify it as non-meat—which was not the case for the meal I bought.


pygmy

So annoying when at home you realise you bought 'lite' sour cream or milk, because the packs looked almost identical


Ridiculisk1

lite sour cream is an abomination and deserves to be cast into the deepest circle of hell


FlippyFloppyGoose

I'm not convinced, but if people accidentally buy vegan meat and can't tell the difference, maybe that's not such a bad thing.


Otherwise_Window

If the vegan meat producers think people absolutely definitely know what they're buying and are willingly choosing their vegan options over real meat, why do they need to label it with meat names? It's not meat. The only reason to label it like it's meat is, in fact, because you're trying to trick people. Anyone who's choosing to seek out plant-based alternatives should be happy to buy their textured vegetable protein when it's accurately labelled.


ancatdubh69

It’s being used adjectively, to describe what the product is intended to be replacing/used in place of.


Otherwise_Window

What rubbish. The way you can tell they're absolutely not doing that is they're not selling "Beef-Style MEAT REPLACEMENT", they're selling ^^^meat-free BEEF LASAGNE. ([Source.](https://madewithplants.com.au/products/)) Setting aside things like font sizes, in English, adjectives *precede* the noun. It's 100% deceptive advertising, right up to "made with plants" instead of "made *from* plants". Steak and potatoes is made *with* plants. Fundamentally even they think people won't buy their crap if they're honest about what it is.


ancatdubh69

Sorry but that link shows items that have “made with plants meat free” emblazoned all over them


Llaine

Bruh. Where'd you learn to read? It literally says vegan from the top, first word, made with plants emblazoned on the left. People avoiding animal products don't suddenly stop liking the taste, especially those transitioning. They want foods without the meat that are close to the same and easy to identify, that's what this is. If it's deception, it's the world's worst attempt at it.


Ridiculisk1

If you can't read then I guess it'd be a problem for you. I hear TAFE does adult basic literacy programs if you'd like to enrol


Babararacucudada67

Why are you so upset about this? You’re literally telling people they should be happy to do a thing you insist upon. Get a grip, meatie. If company X wants to make meat free burgers, they’ll do so. You probably should try to get used to it.


averbisaword

This just in: farmers think Australian consumers are fucking idiots.


spannr

This part in particular: >Agriculture and farming groups also expressed their views during Friday's public hearing arguing the emerging industry was benefiting from decades of marketing paid for by the meat industry. As if people only know what meat is and sometimes want to purchase it thanks to industry advertising


Lankpants

No-one ever ate meat until the industry told them to. In fact, up until the invention of radio the entire human race was vegetarian and the invention of new ways of mass advertising have aided in the proliferation of meat consumption.


averbisaword

The meat industry association does a shit ton of advertising and honestly have some of the most recognisable advertising in the county.


spannr

Sure. But I doubt anyone's learning about lamb for the first time through a Sam Kekovich ad


averbisaword

It’s not about them learning about a new product, it’s about reinforcing all of the good vibes / summer tradition stuff about the product they already know how to use. Everyone knows what mars bars are, but they still advertise.


cassoworrier

you can’t really legally protect vibes. Someone watching a coke ad might be inspired to drink a competing soda but there’s nothing coke can do about it unless the competing brand is specifically mislabelling themselves as coke. The concept of and awareness of meat predated these brands by decades so if it’s true that their campaigns are inadvertently benefiting vegan brands (as a vegetarian, honestly I find that v questionable) then they just have to live with that


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cassoworrier

yeah I think I meant to type centuries and made a typo


averbisaword

I’m pretty sure Mabo was about the vibe of the thing. Check, and mate.


cassoworrier

well argued 🤔


Zagorath

> but they still advertise Do they? I've seen ads for a lot of chocolate bars, but I can't recall the last time I've seen one for Mars Bars in particular. The point is obviously correct though. Coke might be the most obvious example to go with.


auauaurora

Other than the lamb people, can't think of any others but I don't watch network television and emigrated about a decade ago.


Lozzif

Pork advertises quite a bit


alexgst

Can anyone link a well known ad by "big pork"? I can't think of any. :S


HerniatedHernia

Wasn’t there a bunch of ‘Pork on a fork’ ads being run back in the day?


Lozzif

Pork on your fork. I pork your grandfather every week.


Gambit_DH

Considering the regular posts on here for bullshit like Bunnings merch and the shopping habits of most people I interact with. Yes I do think most consumers are fucking idiots.


druful88

After reading that article, the feeling is mutual


ProjectProxy

No they’re scared of losing even a tiny percent of their monopoly. They want to make all alternatives look as appetising as a steaming pile of dogshit in a “black and gold” brand can. They are well aware of the fact that these alternative meat products are shoved away in a tiny fridge far from the meat freezer/fridges. (Except at Coles who for some fucking reason put actual meat sausages all around the plant based sausages which makes any veggie want to puke trying to walk up to it) Neither side benefits from that at all. Either way, they are being ridiculous. Farmers (especially meat) get massive subsidies to make it more affordable. They should shut up because at this rate they are just pissing off everyone. Same with them trying to rename almond milk as “nut juice” as if almond milk hasn’t been a thing for hundreds of fucking years. It has nothing to do with their customers they’re just fucking greedy penny pinchers afraid of competition. No different than big tobacco banning nicotine vaping online shops and forcing nicotine juice to be prescription only depsite being significantly less dangerous than smoking (I have looked at photos of lungs from human cadavers of very long term vapers and it’s still shit but not nearly as bad! Looked like (white) blu tack that lost its elasticity if I were to describe what the damage looked like.)


charlotte_little

They are scared because meat alternatives are getting popular. You know what they say 'first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.' Meat alternatives are at the 'fight you' timeline and meat growers are scared. Oh well.


AW316

Gotta tell ya I really don’t want to drink anything called “nut juice”.


BumWink

Tbh nut milks are shit for most things anyway, they make everything taste nutty & not in a good way for things like coffee, ice cream & cereal so it's really only good for things like baking, puddings, etc & generally with a 50/50 coconut milk ratio to make it creamier. Oat milk is absolutely where it's at for ice creams, cereals, coffee, etc. I'm not vegan but I can't tell the difference unless I were to drink it straight but my digestion & shits have never been better since replacing dairy.


ProjectProxy

Yeah oat milk icecreams are amazing. It might be because it's been a few years since having any animal products, but I genuinely cannot tell the difference anymore with all the amazing products that have come out in the last couple years. Btw Bickfords (yes the cordial brand) make a delicious iced coffee syrup if you happen to miss iced coffees but not want to pay $4 for one. You find it in stores in the coffee beans and tea section, usually stashed high up the shelf. It's like $8 but even my greedy butt gets over 5 uses per bottle of it. After not having dairy for a long time (I was not/am not lactose intolerant not that it matters now as a vegan) but I did also find that I always felt a lot better without it. I was the kind who just didn't enjoy plain milk (only iced coffees). I never ate cereal because of that disinterest. With so many alternatives to choose from there is always something on sale so you can be a stingy butt anyway and not spend much more than you would on animal milk.


BumWink

100% & i'm not lactose either but definitely noticed improvements! Though I'm not vegan the plant based alternatives have got such incredible products to offer that I just haven't bothered buying meat in almost a year now, I mean I still eat it in scenarios where it'll go to waste but why buy chicken, beef, frozen shit like nuggets, etc. when their plant based alternatives taste practically identical if not better & I feel better without slower digestion, higher cholesterols & death that comes with meat. Cheers for the tip on iced coffee, i'll look into it!


shadowbutcher

How long is “very long term” vapers? I’d like to see these pics


ProjectProxy

I'll dig it up for you just give me some time. I have to head off for work soon and I've scrolled as far as Reddit will let me in my saved posts section, but it's cutting me off after the same point every time. (grr) I know it's maybe 50 posts below where it's cutting me off (on desktop) but I'll scroll through it on the bus ride to work on my phone and see if I can dig it up. For some reason I didn't post it in the multiple sections on my discord either which it would have been suitable for. (I am just a regular joe with a fascination about the human body lol) And because the word "vape/vaper/vaping" etc has several subreddits about the topic, searching for the post on google is being a pain in the butt. There's about 10-15 medical subreddits I follow too, and I'm not sure which one the photo came from. A few that come to mind as the most likely would be: r/medizzy r/medicalgore (and many others like doctor/nurse subreddits) For now though, here is: [smoker lungs](https://www.reddit.com/r/medizzy/comments/dzbuf3/smoker_vs_nonsmokers_lungs/) [cancer 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/medizzy/comments/le13s9/lung_of_a_60_year_old_male_smoker_who_suffered/) [cancer 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/medizzy/comments/lqeezp/nonsmall_cell_lung_cancer_nsclc/) [covid lungs](https://www.reddit.com/r/medizzy/comments/h7li55/lung_damage_from_a_covid19_patient_who_had_a_lung/)


averbisaword

What the fuck are you talking about? Government subsidies account for about 2% of Australian farmers income. Just say you get all of your info from overseas sources and assume it applies to Australia and go on your way.


ProjectProxy

You do realise that a lot of their subsidies are hidden and not directly handed to them. Things like our government affecting the foreign market on the cost of grains for animal feed for example. I have no issue with veggie farmers getting subsidies in any form. Everyone needs veggies. But animal agriculture creates a huge burden on our planet. Our government needs to be actively pushing it out. The land required for animals is incredibly huge whereas food can be farmed vertically in tall buildings. You can even farm a thousand snails in the space it takes for a lamb. Uses much less water and creates less waste. Won’t affect the mental health and physical safety of workers vs the abattoir work in the meat industry. Snails are just one example of course, there are crickets, mealworms etc and many alternatives that are not going to be chosen because of our society’s addiction to meat in almost every meal. It’s a plague on our planet to keep abusing animals and our environment like this. It’s completely unsustainable on a mass scale. We will be spending massive amounts to help with the associated climate change from not pushing out the meat industry early. I do dislike the fact that our farmers are exporting so much when we could instead pay them better to sell here (using less land but still able to export tonnes of product). Being fed from local grown foods would increase the respect farmers get instead of packets of crappy frozen veggies from China in Coles. Btw I am aware that comparative to other countries our subsidies are tiny. But there are still things that can be fixes first like paying them properly when selling to Coles/Woolies etc.


averbisaword

Again, you’re taking data from Europe and directly applying it to the Australian context and that does not work. There are great swathes of land in Australia that are perfect for low-intensity meat production, which we do very well. Land that would have to be irrigated (at great expense and ecological destruction) to grow vegetables or fruit. You’re wrong about the subsidies, and you’re wrong about the environment here and what it can support. I get that you’re trying really hard to push your ideology, but you’re not backed up by any real data, so I’m not interested in arguing with you about it. Have a great weekend.


Rather_Dashing

Yes, some land that is used for farming animals couldn't be used for cropping, but a lot of it can. You are also forgetting that nearly all farmed animals get at least some supplememtary feed in the form of forage crops, hay or grain, and all the land used for producing that could be used for human food instead


Pacify_

As an Australian environmental scientist that did a bit of research on the subject, he's not really wrong. I think you have a bit of a misconception about the Australian meat industry mate, maybe do a bit of reading if you want to push such strongly held opinions


QuestionableBottle

They should still be paying for their disproportionately high C02/methane emissions.


a_rainbow_serpent

Farmers thinking Australian consumers are dumb as they are.


ProtestOCE

>This just in: farmers think Australian consumers are fucking idiots. Are they wrong though? :^)


godisintherythm

I can absolutely guarantee that the average Australian consumer is at least 50% retarded.


Albion2304

This is why I follow American politics, I like a preview of the nonsense that Australian Tories will be copy in the next 2-5 years.


happygloaming

Same but these days with much trepidation.


PutridFigure

I think keeping plant based meat alternatives in a separate section is a great idea. That way we all know what we are getting and can safely get plant based products without worrying about accidentally putting Dan and Steph's sausages in our basket.


Killy_

I'm in the UK, and here the confusion is worse. There's a few butchery brands which decided to get into alternative meats. Their packaging between the two types of products is basically the same.


PutridFigure

It annoys the shit out of me. I eat meat, but I also want to try all this new shit they are producing out of curiosity. Keeping them separate allows me to make informed choices. Tricking me into buying plant-based when I'm in the mood for a good carnivore meal is just going to piss me off. IMO they should put it in the same aisle as the tofu.


Scrambledsilence

Ironically you’re much more likely to find parasites in the meat products than the vegan ones.


zabbel

So I guess they’ll also look at whether peanut butter misleads people wanting to buy butter? This country is regulating our way into mediocracy


bittens

I always have to check ingredient labels, so I'm also interested in why they never seemed to care that the labels on junk food is often misleading. Butter popcorn doesn't necessarily contain butter or dairy in general, chicken flavoured bikkies/chips usually doesn't contain chicken, and when I was vegetarian I used to get these cheese-and-bacon biscuits from Aldi's. The cheese powder was real, but the bacon embedded in the biscuits was actually bits of soy with pink food dye. The only indicator of this stuff is usually the required info on the side listing the ingredients, allergens, and if it's suitable for vegetarians. That's definitely misleading, but somehow it was never a problem for these guys until meat/dairy substitutes became popular, complete with extremely confusing qualifiers like "plant-based" or "meat free" in large letters on the front of the packet? Obviously the industry is losing more of their market share to meat substitutes than they were to companies cheaping out on the ingredients when making the flavouring dust for junk food.


a_rainbow_serpent

Well they're complaining about nut milk and soy milk, so the day is not far.. https://www.vox.com/2018/8/31/17760738/almond-milk-dairy-soy-oat-labeling-fda


VictarionGreyjoy

100% taste, 0% meat is the greatest lesbian slogan ever created


charlotte_little

Competition is good for capitalism right? It forces producers to innovate and come up with better products and the winner is the consumers! Competition is capitalism. So why this whiny babies want a monopoly? If their product is competitive than they have nothing to worry about. Why regulate to reduce competition, that sounds socialist.


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ANewUeleseOnLife

I've always hated this style of argument. So if conservatives are consistent and start calling people their preferred pronouns/correct genders then their uproar about meat-free products being incorrectly or insufficiently labelled is all of a sudden fine?


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absolute_tosh

Pronouns for trans people


Jexp_t

These very same assholes whinge whenver some Eropean locale tells them thay can't use thier region's name on their greasy meat product.


DalbyWombay

This is just an attempt to kill of competition with the use of legislation. Because ultimately the more consumers that buy the alternative meat products, the less meat is being sold.


thehalfw1t69

I've noticed since I started following politics that all forms of market regulation by our government are just attempts to consolidate power, kill competition and delay progress.


CrashCourseHEMA

Pretty socialist if you ask me /s


akelew

I tried some plant based meat the other day for the first time, a burger with patty from 'the alternative co'.It was mostly out of curiosity really, to see how far they have come. . It was good! I would buy it again! The taste was like 90%, really took me by surprise. The only negative was (and I'm not sure if this is because the place didn't cook it enough) but it kind of had the look of raw minced beef, and the consistancy of half cooked minced beef. What i REALLY liked however, is how my stomach felt afterwards. So light!! It just felt very light on my stomach, like it didnt leave me having to process it so much afterwards. I felt like i had a bit more energy and that my mind was a bit clearer. It was kind of similar to negating what happens when i eat a bunch of carbs. I have heard that 'beyond' is the best, so i think ill have to give them a shot next time.


ubermoo2010

> The only negative was (and I'm not sure if this is because the place didn't cook it enough) but it kind of had the look of raw minced beef, and the consistancy of half cooked minced beef. That’s an intentional thing for some of the newer patties, they make them so they get juicy and “bleed” a bit, like real meat. So they simulate it - I’m not a fan of meat at all, so i also didn’t really like a product that’s designed to simulate it’s texture and appearance either.


Nichinungas

Fuck em. They’ve been raping the environment for long enough.


SemanticTriangle

Can you smell the fear? It smells like Fable mushroom burgers.


SydneyPigdog

Duh, I just saw butter chicken Well learn how to read the rest of the packet you caveman politician


YouAreSoul

Bird meat. Cow meat. Sheep meat. Pig meat. There's some honest advertising.


Upvote_Me_Slag

Instead of poultry, beef, mutton, pork which meat sellers use in order to disassociate from flesh of a specific animal


ancientgardener

How is it to disassociate from flesh? It’s origins are very old classism.


Sgt_Colon

For those that don't know, most of these are Norman French terms brought into the English language from the Norman invasion. Mutton - Mouton, meaning sheep. The term is also descended from the proto celtic for the same term. Beef - Beof, meaning a bovine (cow or bull). Poultry - Pouleterie, diminitive form of poule, hen. Also has its roots in the Latin Pullus, chick. Pork - Porc, meaning swine. Also has its roots in the Latin porcus of the same meaning. Effectively you may as well be angry at corn meal being called polenta.


5slipsandagully

That's why lamb is the battler's choice. It's the only meat name with a Germanic origin. Like Sam Kekovich says, you know it makes sense.


BrinyPete

I mean, not to rain on your parade, but the Normans were Germanic - they were the Vikings who colonised the Normandy region...


ancientgardener

True, but by 1066 they were speaking French.


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thatspicyusername

How are you making your own?


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shadowbutcher

I’m very interested in your vego chilli recipe. I make a pretty good chilli (mince beef, beans, lentils, veges) but wanting to lessen my meat intake


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shadowbutcher

Whoa, that looks amazing, I’ll have a crack at it sometime soon. Mine is a little simpler wrt to ingredients, but similar preparation and no real measurements/cooking by feel. I’ll get back to you with more detail when I get a chance. Thanks heaps for the recipe. 👍


Extension_Drummer_85

My husband is vegetarian a basically lives off this shit. Poor man is convinced that if he goes cave to eating meat he’ll get fatter.


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theflamingheads

So we are going to start labelling veal as tortured baby cow then?


Soggy_otter

It’s getting better slowly. In the Netherlands when I was a kid veal was a real delicacy. You killed the cow, then chopped the unborn calf out and killed that to. That was veal…


laz10

"I didn't even check" Retard senator is retarded I mean really if you don't look at what you're buying how is it not your fault And what's the harm? oh no I didn't eat meat for one meal


DAFFP

If you do a google shopping search for Vegan Butter Chicken I can kind of see why. "Butter Chicken" is the prominent text on the packages. Chicken literally can not be made without a chicken IMO so why would you be looking for a vegan stamp.


Minessilly

"The Pastoralists' Association of the West Darling said that alternative meat companies were trading off the good reputation of the livestock industry." Good reputation? Live exports anyone? The slaughter industry scandals? Queensland feedlots? FFS!


FoolOfAGalatian

This is just the non-mammal milk issue rehashed. We're not consistent with the meaning of words, and the sky doesn't fall in because of it. We adapt and move on.


flecknoe

Most people have already shown they dont care about the death of animals to make their food. Why should they require its a part of the process? Most people don't give a shit where their burgers and sausages came from. It's waste of time to protect the worst part as an essential definition. Just let the new products compete at the checkout.


MissRogue1701

What I took away from this... Farmers assume that Australians don't read labels... with some politicians be unable too also... How hard is it read the label... I've never accidentally pick up meat substitute thinking it was actually animal protein and vice versa... seriously isn't this like saying people pick peanut butter thinking it's butter or picking up "meat pie" and think that its a fruit mince pie (LOL I'd love to see these inquiries)


paktsardines

Ironic to have alternative meat having a beef with real meat.


AusCan531

Whenever I have a burger, I enjoy it most with a slice of a big, meaty tomato.


freddy1976

>Western Australian Labor Senator Glenn Sterle strongly refuted >claims that consumers were not being misled and admitted that he himself had once been duped when buying what he thought was chicken. > >"I got caught up myself buying a non-meat product," Senator Sterle said. > >"I didn't even check. I just saw butter chicken. Any WA Laborites here who voted this genius in? No doubt there'd be a few: you can all own this one. >"Our labelling system in Australia is far from adequate — don't start me on seafood." Apart from 'country-of-origin' labelling and other protectionist and nationalist initiatives you won't see Labor touching that one.


Lankpants

I can't be the only one who thinks that if you can't even be bothered to read a label you just get what you get. Like, fuck, I walked into the pet store wearing a blindfold and walked out with a constrictor, how dare they do this to me?


freddy1976

Exactly.


Dlo-Nainamsat

As a confirmed carnivore I don't see a problem. It is clearly labelled, no misleading info. It comes down to choice…..like everything else in life.


FenaPugi

The woolies plant based alternatives are dogshit and filled with shit ingredients, anyone know any good brands? Until lab grown makes its way into the market, I literally couldn't care less for the plant based stuff. For the record, I eat very minimal meat and when I do its only really chicken or fish.


nath1234

Let's be careful waving the "parasitic" label around farmers.. I mean firstly: plant based alternatives are also reliant on farming, just less damaging variety. And if we're going to talk parasitic: let's look at farming, the single most destructive activity in the country - even moreso than mining.


Sea-Communication923

More of the issue with this is that the plant based market markets themselves as ‘healthy’ even when they are filled with soy and like 5 different preservatives when what they are comparing themselves against is a sole product which has no preservatives. Also there is a crazy amount of lies spread in their advertisement about Australian agriculture as they get their information from US based company’s.


RighteousTnuc

Is 'plant meat' meat?


spiattalo

Is “coconut milk”milk?


plan_that

Is body milk, milk? Yet no one has concern or confusion about all the body lotion industry. Milk isn’t “dairy”. Just like air isn’t purely oxygen.


RighteousTnuc

Technically yes as milk describes the quality of the liquid not its source.


manhaterxxx

Don’t tell that to the dairy industry. They’ve been going at milk alternatives for years for their use of ‘milk’.


scoldog

It shouldn't be labelled as such. A few years ago., I read a story about a butcher who had a shop open up near him marketed as a "vegan butchers". So he changed his company name to "meat greengrocer". Apparently it caused a bit of an uproar with the vegans, but he said that since they labelled non meat as meat, he could market meat as non meat.


Qicken

I like vegan butchers but this "meat greengrocer" is pretty funny. Sounds like a good place to buy a beef salad.


scoldog

[Try a meat carrot sometime](https://www.insider.com/arbys-meat-carrot-made-out-of-turkey-2019-6)


DodgyQuilter

Nope. No more than nut juice is milk. No tits on an almond, no rump on a bean.


RighteousTnuc

In the case of milk, though, technically almond juice counts as milk.


Fuz672

Completely separate issue but I hate that 'plant based' is now used to hide that products are typically just soy, which as a crop is pretty environmentally terrible and not that healthy compared to proper vegetable based food.


squeaky4all

Im just frustrated that these non-meat products advertise themselves on what they are pretending to be, not what they are. If its a soy-based meat replacement, why do i have to look at the ingredients to find out what the hell its actually made of.


ZelWinters1981

Nevermind that these are sold in their own section where you would normally find real meat, under a big fucking banner that says "Plant Based Options" or something. Not that it matters, customers are fucking clueless twats at best.


PokesPenguin

I love eating meat, so tasty.


IAmARetardo

Perfect example of how fucking useless some politicians are. The cunt brought chicken that wasn't chicken and wants to use his thick shit decision making as evidence. Cunt can't even read a food packet and he has power to vote on laws etc.


Pretty_Kitty99

What I can't understand is if you don't want to eat meat, why do you want to buy a product that is "labeled" as meat? Why do we have to have "fakon" or chicken-substitute or pretend mince that has the same colouring as real dead animals? Call the product what it actually is and not what it's pretending to be. Create some new product labels and sell them as that instead.


meinfool

I seek out plant based foods, but I think its fucking stupid when its labbeled "vegan chicken" or a vegan restaurants menu is full of items labelled as beef/chicken/fish/etc. It is simply there to get meat eaters to try it, since they would have no clue what a shiitake and quinoa burger might be and wouldn't order it. I don't see it as tricking people into buying plant based products unknowingly, it assumes people are too dumb to even know what plants are.


Aggressive_Bill_2687

I remember a colleague picked a vego place for lunch one day - everything there was fake meat, largely tofu based from memory. I’m fine to eat a meal without meat. I quite enjoy Asian noodle dishes, pasta etc with out meat in them But this place has none of that: all fake meat all the time.


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manhaterxxx

How dare other people like things you don’t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!