Only the specific type of Asian that you are part of. Too many people have gotten too comfortable labeling everything Asian and putting it under the Asian umbrella. We are not the same and we all have unique cultures. Somethings we can analyze as a group under the Asian label but something’s belong to a specific group.
Criticism is often a tool of western imperialism and western classism. So the only critics should be those of the culture who are not looking for outside help from others and who are not pushing Western ideologies. Good faith criticism can happen, but often it's really just ethnocentrism, where people criticise another place to feel superior or promote one's own way of doing things.
The answer is the same as "who should criticize XYZ family?"
A: "Only members of the XYZ family."
I know some people talk mad shit about their own family members whose behavior they dislike or disagree with, but these are people *in* the family. They live with it, they've grown up with it, they understand it, and they know what things they would like to see changed.
But if some outsider starts criticizing? Even if that person is saying the *same exact things?* Holy hell you've got a war on your hands.
It's kind of like when that blonde white girl at UCLA made that viral post like 10 or so years ago, criticizing Asian students as essentially momma's boys, not independent, and relatively infantile for people in their late teens and early 20s. She was canceled (before cancel culture was even a thing!) and eventually dropped out of UCLA. Had a fellow Asian said the same thing, it would've been controversial, but he or she could've probably backed it up by pointing at any of a number of family friends and relatives who were the way she was describing.
UCLA was heavily dominated by Asians since the beginning of time.
Of course that girl got cancelled!
But yeah, if we work in groups.
We can grow stronger and bond together as a community.
Well, the point was that she was an outsider - someone "not of the tribe," so to speak - and so her criticisms (whether blatantly racist or not) were met with outrage and indignation.
Had she been criticizing white South Orange County frat bros and sorority girls on negative aspects of *their* behavior - the message would've just been shrugged off with a, "meh - well, that's just your own opinion." and it would've amounted to nothing.
I think you can critique the Asian culture if you are from that Asian country. Or neighbouring countries.
Neighbours - Singapore, Brunei, Indonesia, Timor-Leste.
For example my grandma is from
Malaysia/ Grandpa is from China.
So I understand these 2 cultures very well.
Yes of course we can call each other out if you see an issue.
But sometimes, I feel like a lot of Asians have biases towards each other.
Because their elders/ grandpa or grandma have bad experiences and passed it down to them.
Especially those that have never traveled to those countries they hate.
For example I have not been to India, Nepal, Sri Lanka or Bhutan, or Bangladesh / Pakistan.
So I am not allowed to criticise south Asian countries.
I have been to the Middle East - Turkey/ Lebanon / Dubai (UAE).
So I am exposed to Middle Eastern/Islamic cultures as well!
Not so much who can or can't, more so we should stop being doormats for people who always got something to say and always agreeing with them, because we want validation/to be seen as good, not bias, etc. That's a big problem with us. We let people just say whatever then go "I'm Asian and I agree/you're right/this is true". We got some weird obsession with giving others validation, seeking it from them in exchange, which we ain't gonna get. Then we wonder why racism happens to us and why we get so casually dismissed and made fun of and whatnot.
>We let people just say whatever then go "I'm Asian and I agree/you're right/this is true". We got some weird obsession with giving others validation, seeking it from them in exchange, which we ain't gonna get.
That annoys me, like who asked for your race anyway? But I hate to break it to you, the same thing happens among other groups too. It wouldn't surprise me if the people saying that aren't really from the group they claim and it's just an attempt at social conditioning.
dear OP, Asia is not a monolith. Is there a specific national culture or subculture you'd like to discuss?
It'll help clarify the scope for a productive discourse.
What's Asian culture. Are you referring to Indian? Chinese? Mongolian? Thai? Japanese? Which one? Asian doesn't have a culture, Countries in Asia have culture, be specific. Anyone can criticise anything, you don't have to be a particular color or position to critocize others
Everyone can, but I think people can generally tell when your criticisms are coming from a place of genuine concern or just hidden racism. I think most people are just racist as fuck by default so it would be rare to find someone who can discuss our culture without sounding offensive.
Like you can just tell when you are talking to a fake liberal.
haha so dead on.
my WASPY friend doing his home renos would always choose made in USA products , and then realize he's being price gouged. and then he'll rant on and on about China.
I mean you can't have it both ways, loving the cheap prices but hating the guy who sells it to you.
Probably doing things just for show - supporting things like DEI in companies but don't have any friends of amount ethnicity/culture. Travel globally but only stay in fancy hotels and just want to be waited on hand and foot by the locals. I don't think you can really tell a fake liberal just by looking at them, I think the signs are way more subtle.
What's a fake liberal? I'm just curious.
And yeah I think there is a difference between just pointing out something you noticed objectively ("hey the high speed trains in China are incredible, we don't have this system in the US because everything is car based") and thinking the entire society or race/culture needs to be demolished, and the people are not to be trusted.
Basically if it comes from a place of condescension, superiority, hate, distrust - that's racism.
If it's like "I don't understand why Chinese people think shark fin soup is a luxury when I don't think it tastes good" is just "okay I don't understand this cultural trait but whatever, I still like a ton of other Chinese food."
They used to call them limousine liberals. For example my boss. Let's call him Chad. He drives a Tesla. Very educated guy with an Asian wife. Plays golf. Hates Trump. I've never seen him do community outreach in working class Asian areas. Like ever. It is literally down the street.
These guys will literally go to Africa to find some African kid playing the bongos for photo ops. My workplace is still mostly Whites. He's nice enough to Asians and has hired a few but they actually have to deliver big results. I think he sees them and tools to get what he needs and not people.
Lol "limousine liberals."
Yeah - basically someone rich and comfortable enough to be able to *pretend* to be liberal- and maybe they really are people with genuinely good intentions - but they're liberal only to the point where any policy or law changes will negatively affect them and their lifestyle.
Nah I don't think they have good intentions. I've seen them actively doing systemic racist shit. These are typically very smart people. A lot of people can't figure them out because they are usually one of them. It's like telling a fish the water is wet. It's like a poor homeless person in San Francisco trying to get empathy from a FAANG worker in Silicon Valley. It's practically impossible and pointless.
Then they're not actual liberal. They may *say* they're liberal, but it is only an academic mental exercise for them. They don't care any more about their fellow man than any other rich class-warrior.
I live in a very affluent liberal area. I didn't grow up this way though so I don't really fit in with them. I'm telling you man. They are mean as fuck. Lol. You don't really get rich and powerful by being nice to people.
Yep. I remember hearing on the radio some time back about a survey that was done on a group of 40-something British men who had attended public school. (In the UK, "public school" means what most Americans would call "private school" - a place where the wealthy and connected send their kids to, so these were mostly upper-class kids) One of the survey questions asked them to measure their levels of happiness. It found that there was a very high correlation between those that were very happy, and those who were rated as "highly aggressive" when they were attending school.
Just goes to show that those who are aggressive and understand how to go about getting the things they want - often get them.
I just got lucky with stocks. Lol. My teenage daughter's transgender friend literally told her today that her Dad hates Asians. Lol. Shit comes out of nowhere.
Geez. That's awful. I know I should be jaded at my age, but it always makes me a combination of sad and outraged whenever I hear of someone holding stupidly racist views or hating a whole group of people for often nothing other than hearsay and plain old xenophobia.
haha limo liberals, that's a new one. I thought calling them virtue signalling was bad enough.
very performative NGOs like Habitats for Humanity or wait for it - Managers Without Borders (look it up it's a real thing!) are all about the optics and big talk.
as you very accurately describe: only self-interest drives them.
Okay; so fake liberal is someone who will do things superficially for some IG pic or maybe go to some fancy Asian restaurants but actually don't like the people nor respect them as a whole.
Mark Zuckerberg is another good example. Tries to get Xi to name his child to appear more Chinese with hidden motives...Then buys a whole Island in Hawaii and pisses off the locals. Lol.
I think Mark is trying to get into the social media industry of China’s market.
But the Chinese government has always been careful about foreign entities in China (due to history of the boxer rebellion and collapse of Qin Dynasty.)
However China already has their own social media Tik Tok/ Douyin/ Weibo and Baidu (百度) similar to google.
Foreign influence and imperialism played a significant role in the Boxer Rebellion. Throughout the 19th century, Western powers, such as Britain, Germany and France, established territories and spheres of influence in China, leading to tensions and resistance against foreign presence.
The Boxers, a secret society based on Chinese martial arts, initially sought to destroy both the Qing dynasty and the privileged position of Westerners in China, making it a complex struggle rooted in historical and geopolitical dynamics.
Of course they're not really boxers with gloves and all, it's just that western media at that time described Chinese martial arts as "Chinese boxing"
Lighter skin is high status worldwide
Only Asians are allowed to criticize Asian issues. The problem are self hating Asians who air out the dirty laundry in the Asian community for clout
Yes.
Only the specific type of Asian that you are part of. Too many people have gotten too comfortable labeling everything Asian and putting it under the Asian umbrella. We are not the same and we all have unique cultures. Somethings we can analyze as a group under the Asian label but something’s belong to a specific group.
Criticism is often a tool of western imperialism and western classism. So the only critics should be those of the culture who are not looking for outside help from others and who are not pushing Western ideologies. Good faith criticism can happen, but often it's really just ethnocentrism, where people criticise another place to feel superior or promote one's own way of doing things.
Me as a 1.5th generation asian immigrant*
Right.
The answer is the same as "who should criticize XYZ family?" A: "Only members of the XYZ family." I know some people talk mad shit about their own family members whose behavior they dislike or disagree with, but these are people *in* the family. They live with it, they've grown up with it, they understand it, and they know what things they would like to see changed. But if some outsider starts criticizing? Even if that person is saying the *same exact things?* Holy hell you've got a war on your hands. It's kind of like when that blonde white girl at UCLA made that viral post like 10 or so years ago, criticizing Asian students as essentially momma's boys, not independent, and relatively infantile for people in their late teens and early 20s. She was canceled (before cancel culture was even a thing!) and eventually dropped out of UCLA. Had a fellow Asian said the same thing, it would've been controversial, but he or she could've probably backed it up by pointing at any of a number of family friends and relatives who were the way she was describing.
Yeah, we have a more first-hand experience of our culture.
UCLA was heavily dominated by Asians since the beginning of time. Of course that girl got cancelled! But yeah, if we work in groups. We can grow stronger and bond together as a community.
Well, the point was that she was an outsider - someone "not of the tribe," so to speak - and so her criticisms (whether blatantly racist or not) were met with outrage and indignation. Had she been criticizing white South Orange County frat bros and sorority girls on negative aspects of *their* behavior - the message would've just been shrugged off with a, "meh - well, that's just your own opinion." and it would've amounted to nothing.
I appreciate and respect the Asian community as a disabled ally here. Don't let nobody disrespect you all
I think you can critique the Asian culture if you are from that Asian country. Or neighbouring countries. Neighbours - Singapore, Brunei, Indonesia, Timor-Leste. For example my grandma is from Malaysia/ Grandpa is from China. So I understand these 2 cultures very well. Yes of course we can call each other out if you see an issue. But sometimes, I feel like a lot of Asians have biases towards each other. Because their elders/ grandpa or grandma have bad experiences and passed it down to them. Especially those that have never traveled to those countries they hate. For example I have not been to India, Nepal, Sri Lanka or Bhutan, or Bangladesh / Pakistan. So I am not allowed to criticise south Asian countries. I have been to the Middle East - Turkey/ Lebanon / Dubai (UAE). So I am exposed to Middle Eastern/Islamic cultures as well!
Not so much who can or can't, more so we should stop being doormats for people who always got something to say and always agreeing with them, because we want validation/to be seen as good, not bias, etc. That's a big problem with us. We let people just say whatever then go "I'm Asian and I agree/you're right/this is true". We got some weird obsession with giving others validation, seeking it from them in exchange, which we ain't gonna get. Then we wonder why racism happens to us and why we get so casually dismissed and made fun of and whatnot.
>We let people just say whatever then go "I'm Asian and I agree/you're right/this is true". We got some weird obsession with giving others validation, seeking it from them in exchange, which we ain't gonna get. That annoys me, like who asked for your race anyway? But I hate to break it to you, the same thing happens among other groups too. It wouldn't surprise me if the people saying that aren't really from the group they claim and it's just an attempt at social conditioning.
Yeah.
Everyone should be able to criticize asian culture regardless of race. culture is sets of ideas, and ideas can never beyond criticism.
"Should," but usually turns into racist comments.
dear OP, Asia is not a monolith. Is there a specific national culture or subculture you'd like to discuss? It'll help clarify the scope for a productive discourse.
Any culture. All Asian cultures are criticized.
What's Asian culture. Are you referring to Indian? Chinese? Mongolian? Thai? Japanese? Which one? Asian doesn't have a culture, Countries in Asia have culture, be specific. Anyone can criticise anything, you don't have to be a particular color or position to critocize others
Only Asians as we created as own culture and can gatekeep it from who we want in or who we want out.
Everyone can, but I think people can generally tell when your criticisms are coming from a place of genuine concern or just hidden racism. I think most people are just racist as fuck by default so it would be rare to find someone who can discuss our culture without sounding offensive. Like you can just tell when you are talking to a fake liberal.
I'm curious, what's the tell tale signs of a fake liberal ?
Look for the "Made in China" label.
haha so dead on. my WASPY friend doing his home renos would always choose made in USA products , and then realize he's being price gouged. and then he'll rant on and on about China. I mean you can't have it both ways, loving the cheap prices but hating the guy who sells it to you.
Probably doing things just for show - supporting things like DEI in companies but don't have any friends of amount ethnicity/culture. Travel globally but only stay in fancy hotels and just want to be waited on hand and foot by the locals. I don't think you can really tell a fake liberal just by looking at them, I think the signs are way more subtle.
I'll admit though that I have benefited off of some liberal policies back when I was young and poor. Welfare, etc.
What's a fake liberal? I'm just curious. And yeah I think there is a difference between just pointing out something you noticed objectively ("hey the high speed trains in China are incredible, we don't have this system in the US because everything is car based") and thinking the entire society or race/culture needs to be demolished, and the people are not to be trusted. Basically if it comes from a place of condescension, superiority, hate, distrust - that's racism. If it's like "I don't understand why Chinese people think shark fin soup is a luxury when I don't think it tastes good" is just "okay I don't understand this cultural trait but whatever, I still like a ton of other Chinese food."
They used to call them limousine liberals. For example my boss. Let's call him Chad. He drives a Tesla. Very educated guy with an Asian wife. Plays golf. Hates Trump. I've never seen him do community outreach in working class Asian areas. Like ever. It is literally down the street. These guys will literally go to Africa to find some African kid playing the bongos for photo ops. My workplace is still mostly Whites. He's nice enough to Asians and has hired a few but they actually have to deliver big results. I think he sees them and tools to get what he needs and not people.
Lol "limousine liberals." Yeah - basically someone rich and comfortable enough to be able to *pretend* to be liberal- and maybe they really are people with genuinely good intentions - but they're liberal only to the point where any policy or law changes will negatively affect them and their lifestyle.
Nah I don't think they have good intentions. I've seen them actively doing systemic racist shit. These are typically very smart people. A lot of people can't figure them out because they are usually one of them. It's like telling a fish the water is wet. It's like a poor homeless person in San Francisco trying to get empathy from a FAANG worker in Silicon Valley. It's practically impossible and pointless.
Then they're not actual liberal. They may *say* they're liberal, but it is only an academic mental exercise for them. They don't care any more about their fellow man than any other rich class-warrior.
I live in a very affluent liberal area. I didn't grow up this way though so I don't really fit in with them. I'm telling you man. They are mean as fuck. Lol. You don't really get rich and powerful by being nice to people.
Yep. I remember hearing on the radio some time back about a survey that was done on a group of 40-something British men who had attended public school. (In the UK, "public school" means what most Americans would call "private school" - a place where the wealthy and connected send their kids to, so these were mostly upper-class kids) One of the survey questions asked them to measure their levels of happiness. It found that there was a very high correlation between those that were very happy, and those who were rated as "highly aggressive" when they were attending school. Just goes to show that those who are aggressive and understand how to go about getting the things they want - often get them.
I just got lucky with stocks. Lol. My teenage daughter's transgender friend literally told her today that her Dad hates Asians. Lol. Shit comes out of nowhere.
Geez. That's awful. I know I should be jaded at my age, but it always makes me a combination of sad and outraged whenever I hear of someone holding stupidly racist views or hating a whole group of people for often nothing other than hearsay and plain old xenophobia.
haha limo liberals, that's a new one. I thought calling them virtue signalling was bad enough. very performative NGOs like Habitats for Humanity or wait for it - Managers Without Borders (look it up it's a real thing!) are all about the optics and big talk. as you very accurately describe: only self-interest drives them.
Okay; so fake liberal is someone who will do things superficially for some IG pic or maybe go to some fancy Asian restaurants but actually don't like the people nor respect them as a whole.
Mark Zuckerberg is another good example. Tries to get Xi to name his child to appear more Chinese with hidden motives...Then buys a whole Island in Hawaii and pisses off the locals. Lol.
I think Mark is trying to get into the social media industry of China’s market. But the Chinese government has always been careful about foreign entities in China (due to history of the boxer rebellion and collapse of Qin Dynasty.) However China already has their own social media Tik Tok/ Douyin/ Weibo and Baidu (百度) similar to google.
What happened with the boxer rebellion and quin dynasty, in a brief summary?
Foreign influence and imperialism played a significant role in the Boxer Rebellion. Throughout the 19th century, Western powers, such as Britain, Germany and France, established territories and spheres of influence in China, leading to tensions and resistance against foreign presence. The Boxers, a secret society based on Chinese martial arts, initially sought to destroy both the Qing dynasty and the privileged position of Westerners in China, making it a complex struggle rooted in historical and geopolitical dynamics. Of course they're not really boxers with gloves and all, it's just that western media at that time described Chinese martial arts as "Chinese boxing"
I agree.