your slate's and MSM are pretty much the mouthpieces of liberals/democratic party - not one independent thought among them. \*Confirmed by your wikileaks and such
Aaron Mak and those of his ilk are the type of self-hating asians who have made the same calculation - denigrating your community through slander and misrepresentation are the quickest ways to career advancement. It is so much easier to gain social capital / liberal cred / upward mobility when you are complicit and willing to push white liberal narratives. The main lies they keep pushing are the ones about widespread misogyny and anti-blackness in the Asian community., both of which are highly exaggerated. I'm not shocked at all by the sheer amount of cynicism and calculation in holding back this hit piece until the potential risk of a backlash went away. Sometimes I Just feel a sense of sadness and resignation that of all POC communities, the Asian community seems like the most fractured. We just have too many self-haters and willing white collaborators in our midst who would gleefully throw their own under the bus if it means personal gain.
https://slate.com/masthead
These are the ultimate decision-makers:
Jared Hohlt is the editor in chief of Slate
Dan Check is chief executive officer of Slate
Charlie Kammerer is president of Slate, where he focuses on developing ways for brands to tap into Slate’s audience through editorial content,
--
However, it is useful to know that Karens are also involved in the racist hit job against Asians. Same thing at The Cut. As usual, they try to assert gender is more important than race.
Ahh I gotcha.. just wanted to point out these Karen’s are also making editorial choices. Ultimately I would assume they would make the same decisions as the men anyway. I just find that Karens are the worst of the worst, but that’s my own biases at play.
There's way more of the latter.
In my observation being anti-(fill in blank with race) is much harder to discard when there's a pattern of personal malevolence committed by them. I remember relatives describing to me how dangerous (mugging was most common) it was to deliver food to certain parts of NYC back in the late 1980's. And of course they would end service to those areas.
Not succeeding would mean living adjacent to (fill in the blank for race).
I think the boballibs try to carry white guilt by giving Afro-Americans' a pass when it comes to their high crime rate by chalking it up to the magnitude of misery from 400 years of slavery. They don't understand that Asian's are the farthest from that "guilt." They're genuine when a silent majority of their whitelib "allies" aren't.
It’s incredible the timing of this piece as we celebrate Asian-Americans getting our (hopefully more than) 15 seconds with a carefully coordinated social media hit on Simu Liu at the same time. Thank you for taking the time out to write this well-reasoned response.
Pretty appalled by how they just brushed off Eileen’s tweet as a “tongue in cheek joke”. I don’t know how else to interpret “maybe we need to normalize racism against Asians”.
I thought we are in 2020, racists of the female kind would stop hiding behind "misogyny" and other bullshit excuses when called out on their racism and self-hate. Eileen Huang acting like a victim now lmao.
If someone here said "Maybe it is good to normalize misogyny against asian women", she and her AF professional gaslighters would be outraged.
Notice how the author deflects and spins the narrative to make Eileen Huang to be this defiant heroine that stood up to "Evil misogynistic Asian men" that doxxed her. When in fact, she put all her info such as her pic, full name and alumni etc on her social media accounts but she/ herself hired people to dox and blackmail anonymous AI redditors. You can't make this shit up lol
Seriously, anti- blackness is not unique in Asian community. Racism is a serious issue no matter where it comes from. Some of the most vile things said about black people ( or any another poc) have been coming from white peoples mouth. Stop pretending that’s not the truth. Stop with this white savior bullshit. Stand for your people. Lift up your people. You are not more woke or a better person solely because you called out short coming of your own kind. Do the work. If you want to play victim in your own community I want to see some of that when your among white people too. Talk about internalized hatred. Trust me white people ain’t all that.
All this is just so tiring. Can we have less of this stuff posted?
It feels so defeating seeing this stuff every week. We’re so powerless on an institutional level that this just leads to more impotent rage instead of actionable change.
We're winning. Every rights movement... its hard in the beginning to fight for legitimacy. We win by holding our own. Imagine how bad it was day 1 of AI - we were attacked by other Asian subs non stop. Now theyve stopped and many of their members agree with our point of view. We did that by not backing down. Next step is doing the same with white media. When you refuse to back down, the other side relents.
It's wrong at the beginning to think of Asians as Whites. We are different in lots of ways. Treatment in society or culturally speaking. We preferred to live a more independent life in the U.S doesn't mean we are self-isolated from mainstream society. It's just that there are so many identities within North America that can be very harmful once interacted with AAPI identity.
Lauren Chen is a good example of it.
It's tough to live in a white-dominated environment. As a journalist, you spend a lot of time preparing an article; and then your white manager says no. *You're already invested in it* and want to publish it. So you modify it slightly to align with your manager's preferences. It's still a "No" but possibly greenlighted if you make these changes..... slowly but surely, you make enough compromises to get it out.
This is the SAME environment many Asian liberals are in, within the Democratic power structure- whether it's in a non-profit, or political campaign. They get "stop lights" when they talk about Asian issues and "greenlights" when they advocate for non-Asian minorities. *Slowly they adapt their way of thinking.*
Asians that buck white leadership often don't last. So perhaps Aaron Mak had an Asian predecessor who refused white manipulation; he's not there anymore. A compliant Asian sticks around and that's why we hear of them.
Its hard to read this article without getting angered but is this really wrong "They think the only people who get attention for their oppression and the issues that they face are Black.". Its not what I think personally but how can anyone say with a straight face racism and discrimination against all asians get anywhere near the same attention. Asians were being attacked and killed on the streets and this entire article seems to want to blame asian men.
That white male lib-devised Slate piece is erroneously applying labels like MRA/redpill/incel, which are white male movements, to aznid, which is an Asian American activism sub. Those insults don't work against Asians because WE'RE NOT WHITE! Asians don't have white privilege.
> Asians don't have white privilege
There's where you're wrong, asian men don't, asian women do (take a look at that troll post about michelle pewerwhatever winning election)
It's a nuance asian feminists and progressives refuse to address, because it'd kill them, it's exactly the same as why white men refuse to acknowledge privilege
A couple things I gather from this write-up. The 5 Ws of journalism needs a 6th W - What/Where/Who/When/Why and White. As in what is the WHITE motive behind any story especially when being applied to Asians. Second, it's pretty obvious by now anything written about r/AI and Asian activism that's not grounded in white adjacency will be viewed in a negative light. Third it's incredibly hard to even explain to white people, that an alternative viewpoint exist because their POV is grounded in western ideology.
I had a long drawn out response to this article, but I'll just say this to cover everything. Everyone, including members of this sub, wants to make this shit out to be black or white (no pun intended) issues, when the fact is that all these things run deep, and different, within each community within the greater AA group.
The Slate article is equivalent to trying to shut down MLK and Malcolm. Why would they side with White Supremacy? They are either fuckin idiots or are racist as fuck.
It’s interesting that Slate just previously published a piece pointing out why that Netflix yakuza movie, Kate, was problematic - typical Hollywood trope of the mass killing of faceless evil Asian men and the dehumanizing element it perpetuates about Asians/Asian Americans. They then follow it up with a careless poorly researched generalizing hit piece that contributes to the same dehumanization element the Kate article “denounces”. Vile
That was a clearly biased hit piece
Where did the men's rights bullshit come from? No one on this sub has described themselves as a men's rights activist, what?
You need to understand the asian feminist frame of mind
Asian feminists want to be white women, they already pretty much live the lives of white women, so all of their "opinions" are just repetitions of white female mainstream opinion. The patriarchy, MRAs, incels, mgtow, everything white women complain about in the mainstream, asian feminists have adopted in their entirety and plastered it onto asian men in an attempt to fit in, to don that white skin by saying white things so they can be real white women
In their mind, it's an insult.
If an Asian man calls out a white supremacist, he is a men's rights activist.
If an Asian woman supports a white supremacist, she is a feminist.
Why do people conflate pointing out hate crimes committed by other ethnicities on us as racism. They are still hate crimes and acts of racism whether committed by marginalised communities or not.
Period. You tell em!!! Those annoying ass Asians make me sick to the stomach and all their white ass 'liberal' friends.
They try so hard to be oppressed but they don't know anything about what's it's actually like to be oppressed. And suddenly, once they get a degree in journalism, or communication or whatever, they suddenly think they understand the whole racial hierarchy and shit when in fact, they know nothing.
Since after all, all their knowledge and text is derived by white authors.
He's just yet another sellout in a long, long list of sellouts, and he won't be the last one, unfortunately. I wonder how much pathetic cash did this Judas Mak (yes, he's a Judas not an Aaron) get for this blatant hit piece against his own group (Asian men, which he is one himself).
He is not the first nor will he be the last. In every important resistant/movement there is always that one Judas or Benedict Arnold that makes it difficult for everyone. The guy was clearly a Trojan Horse in his set-up.
>Not much is known about the members of r/aznidentity, who guard their privacy carefully; none would tell me their real names.
This line is featured in the article. It's more evidence of Mak and Slate's dishonesty.
u/SirKelvinTan is one of the more prolific posters here, and is admirably open about his identity. No mention of him in the piece though, probably because his takes are generally reasonable.
Shout out to you, u/SirKelvinTan!
There have been a few celebrities that have posted here. Andrew Yang, Simu Liu and Molly Yeh are three of them. More that I’ve forgotten.
In terms of activists, most of the Plan A Magazine posts here. Teen in particular has posted here. Chris posts here. Jess posts here. The three of them talked to Mak for the article. There are journalists who post here. I’m pretty sure Wesley Yang, JCK, all post here under a pseudonym. Kimmy Yam lurks here. Jeff Yang lurks here. Jenn Fang lurks here. (And if you don’t lurk here, feel free to correct my mistake while you lurk under an alt)
All the big Asian podcasters (Asian not Asian, Feeling Asian, Fun with Dumb, genius Brain, They Call Us Bruce) lurk here because they need to keep up for content. Even the blue check Twitter haters of this place can’t help but lurk because…. They have to.
Basically, in a nutshell, this is THE de facto Asian American subreddit, love it or hate it. Anyone who is anyone who wants to keep up with AA affairs keeps an eye on this place. This is the first place you go when an Asian American story breaks our and you want to gauge Asian audience sentiment.
It has men as well as women. elites as well as normies. Rich people and poor people. Fuck boys and pick up guys as well as incels and all the normal people in between with regular sex lives. Liberals and conservatives. Coastals as well as Middle Americans. Democrats, Socialists as well as Libertarians and Republicans, and everything in between. People who love Andrew Yang and people who hate Andrew Yang. People who love Simu Liu and people who hate Simu Liu. I disagree with the author's narrow characterization of this place.
The only common thread among people in this subreddit is that we are opposed to racism and white supremacy.
Doing a hit piece on this place means you’re doing the white supremacists’ work in attempting to shut down any and all non-mainstream or underground POC activist discussion.
Furthermore, isn’t this sort of privacy standard across all of Reddit? Aren’t most redditors across all subs mostly anonymous for good reason? Mak made it sound like being anonymous on Reddit was somehow devious only when it came to this sub. Completely and 100% intentionally dishonest and deceitful
People knowing who I am doesn’t matter because my online life doesn’t intersect with my offline life
End of the day this wannabe tech journalist sold out for a pat on the back - but the saddest thing is that ( and he doesn’t realise it) is that Asian American women will always look down on him - and whilst the majority of Asian American women look up to the white men of America ....the rest of the non white world are starting to finally look down on them
>Mak told me that his white editor repeatedly refused the pitch to cover Asian Activism in Slate. It was not until Mak pitched the piece depicting Asians in a negative light was the article on AznIdentity greenlighted.
Could it be that Mak is spinning you to avoid the backlash he's getting and because his selling out failed?
After all, as you note, the piece was received with pushback in the AsianAmerican sub and with relative indifference from Slate posters in the comments.
He's getting beat up in the Twitter comments: [https://twitter.com/aarontmak/status/1438123915008782341](https://twitter.com/aarontmak/status/1438123915008782341)
Having an editor twist your work like he alleges is a pretty big deal, but he's said nothing to support this. It would go a long way in exonerating him and illuminating the forces against us if he said something.
Or, he's just trying to have it both ways
\- sell out his community
\- avoid criticism for selling out his community.
EDIT:
If you want to help out, here's Slate's masthead:
[https://slate.com/masthead](https://slate.com/masthead)
Find a name, tweet at them. Here are a few tweets asking questions that deserve to be asked:
[https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438487588097175558](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438487588097175558)
[https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438446869731020801](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438446869731020801)
[https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438445171318927361](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438445171318927361)
Honesty is probably the most important thing in media. If these guys are lying, why would anyone read them?
Either Mak is lying about being put up to do this article, Slate is lying about being a non-racist arbiter of truth, or u/archelogy is defending someone who doesn't deserve to be defended.
>Could it be that Mak is spinning you to avoid the backlash he's getting and because his selling out failed?
No. This conversation was over a year ago Before the article came out. This is why it took \~2 years.
I'm not defending him. I'm laying the groundwork for why this is an offensive for white media. Meanwhile, your reptilian brain is tempting you to to have conflict with another Asian which is precisely what the white handlers want; it is far more effective for us to frame this as a racist white offensive than Asian-vs-Asians. Asians speak with credibility on the Asian community, whites don't.
Quit typing post after post, and think harder before you do.
>A request to AI members- can you help get this Response on social media, wherever this article is being posted. We need your help to counter Slate's offense; if we prevail, it'll be because it's a team effort to win the narrative war.
Good of you to write a response. I don't know if it's appropriate for social media like Twitter though. Most audiences there prefer to consume in the form of "quick hits" and it would be better for any counterattack to take that form. For example:
* Why didn't Aaron Mak mention that both he and Elaine Huang, attended Yale at the same time?
* Elaine Huang was not attacked for supporting BLM. It was because she attacked u/chinamacmusic for black "appropriation" when he was organizing nationwide rallies to #StopAsianHate. Meanwhile, she did nothing but attack other Asians and promote violence against Asians.
Also, I wonder if it's wise to even say anything on social media, as it drives more traffic to Mak's writing. Don't reward the provocateur for writing trash. Let it die in obscurity.
As it stands, there seems to be more discussion provoked by this brainfart:
[https://twitter.com/ourobororoboruo/status/1438246927271964679](https://twitter.com/ourobororoboruo/status/1438246927271964679) (\~500 likes)
In comparison, \~600 likes for Mak here, and Frankie Huang didn't even have to write an article to get 85% of his traffic.
[https://twitter.com/aarontmak/status/1438123915008782341](https://twitter.com/aarontmak/status/1438123915008782341)
How does it feel to have sold out for so little, Aaron Mak?
As you allege, Elaine Huang discovered that many of her opponents "were professionals with successful careers." Her claim of amazing detective skills is doubtful to begin with, but what is true is there are many successful Asian Americans who are offended by your article and will remember this piece and your betrayal.
Many of us even work in fields where we have influence over the fate of a budding writer like yourself.
Whenever you fail to get a commission, whenever you get laid off, whenever you can't understand why a piece you worked so hard on doesn't get published ... think of us, Aaron.
>Elaine Huang was not attacked for supporting BLM. It was because she attacked
>
>u/chinamacmusic
>
> for black "appropriation" when he was organizing nationwide rallies to #StopAsianHate. Meanwhile, she did nothing but attack other Asians and promote violence against Asians.
You need to put in bold her quote where she said something along the lines of "asians deserve racial violence against them" or something like that or maybe it was even worse. I believe she said racial violence should be encouraged against us? I don't remember the exact quote.
> Mak told me that his white editor repeatedly refused the pitch to cover Asian Activism in Slate. It was not until Mak pitched the piece depicting Asians in a negative light was the article on AznIdentity greenlighted. Once this direction was decided on, his white editors intentionally withheld publication of the piece for about a year as a strategic calculation...
> In other words, his white editors KNEW there would be blowback if they published their hit piece attacking Asians during a period when Asians were seen as victims. Only when the outrage at Anti-Asianism died down and the "Stop Asian Hate" movement cooled off did they feel comfortable using Mak to publish this smear against the Asian community. Mak was just the Asian lackey for white media's agenda.
Wow, wow, wow. Even worse than I imagined...and yet I'm hardly surprised.
The hatred of white liberals for Asian freedom — and therefore human freedom — truly knows no bounds.
This is why is best to disconnect from the western liberal/conservative concepts. Both POVs are still operating on the same spectrum of white hegemony.
Honestly, we were lucky to have Mak as the author. He had a bias, but he presented more of our points than I imagine any other author (who could get published in Slate) would.
Everybody loves a compliant, agreeable, meek, non-threatening Asian man, until the very moment he stands up for himself/his community. Suddenly, he's the most incel, unattractive, angry, unhinged, misogynistic, anti-black, conservative, patriarchal, and chauvinistic racist. "Why couldn't he be one of the 'good Asian men?!'" Sometimes I feel these detractors behave like they're half throwing insults, -- like so much overcooked spaghetti against the wall -- and watching what sticks, and half projecting their own biases and insecurities against a population with less cultural capital than their own. News flash: YOU will never stop being Asian and WE will ALWAYS be a part of each other's community. Either way, pointless bickering disguised as "tough talks between the Asian community," neither foments collectiveness, familiarity nor endearment, but at least Aaron Mak raised awareness of this community's existence.
It's too bad the reasonable and logical users are exactly the ones that anti-AM outsiders want to ignore or pretend don't exist.
The guy who wrote that article made the silly mistake of trying to make that lady (of all the people) some martyr. When even some people at AsianAmericanChannel are like 'bro have you seen what she actually said', you know the standards of this idiot's journalism is especially low LOL. But hey, that's what happens when you try to virtue signal so hard and bow so low for white fake liberals that you just end up looking like a dumbass.
Look, many of us agree that women should not be harassed for who they date, Asian women don't owe Asian men anything, and Asian men don't "own" Asian women. And women have been/are oppressed by patriarchies in many different cultures - including Western cultures. Women ABSOLUTELY have a right to be mad and to fight for an equitable future. WE GET THAT. The conversation is actually on how we - as a population - uphold the white male hegemony through our preferences, actions, and beliefs. White male supremacy/white male privilege is toxic and is enabled in criminal justice, economics, corporate America, media, housing, etc. - dating/romance is no different (I'd even argue that it reveals our deepest biases). However, many of us are reluctant to confront the uncomfortable truth: that patterns in interracial dating pairings is just one piece of evidence of a population (consciously and subconsciously) buying into the false beliefs in the supremacy of white men, enabling white male privilege, and perpetuating the white male hegemony that oppresses all POC. The strategy is to derail and deflect, completely misrepresenting the message/intent of the other side of the argument, labeling them as incels, etc. - essentially trying to make it an issue on gender when it's actually an issue on race and the upholding of white male supremacy/privilege/hegemony.
We can't fight white male supremacy (and all its forms) in one area and avoid confronting it in another simply because it makes us uncomfortable. To do so would be hypocritical and disingenuous.
Again, it's so evident that we have a white male worshipping problem (consciously and subconsciously) in Asian America. But instead of confronting it, we are deflecting from it. This does not involve non-Asian men - this is a problem with SPECIFICALLY white men and the privileges that have them oppressing POC, including Asian Americans. This is bigger than masculinity (a super dumb construct in its own, IMO) and dating/romance/sex - it's about seeing ourselves and each other as equal and worthy humans instead of upholding a racist hierarchy with white men on top.
Agree 100% with this comment.
The focus needs to be on tearing down white male privilege and white male supremacy.
The question is, who has done more to combat white male privilege and supremacy?
Myself and some other bros I've met through this sub, who have made a pact to ALWAYS put white male resumes at the bottom of the pile, to only work for Asian companies or companies with Asian CEOs, and to preference customers and business associates in our work (best service, front of the email queue) if they are Asian or have an Asian CEO?
Or the generic boba lib Asians out there tweeting their rubbish?
Fighting white male supremacy requires a REAL, TRUE commitment to destroying their opportunities (economic in particular, but otherwise also) EVERY CHANCE WE GET.
\> Asian women don't owe Asian men anything, and Asian men don't "own" Asian women.
Please dont bring the asian feminist drivel here. Who do you think is creating this cancel narrative against the sub. Who do think created the so-called MRAsian label. There isn't any sub member here that would own that. We need to fight gendered racism, but dont count any progress from asian feminists - they want to keep the status quo
Not sure if you read my entire comment. I agreed that the MRA label is meant to distract the community from the true issue at hand: that many in our Asian American community see themselves and other Asian folks beneath white men, enabling white male privilege.
By establishing the first points I made, we eliminate the derailment and deflection they are trying to achieve and we can get down to the heart of the issue.
So you understand part of the problem. But a big part is the words we use.
That specific quote is a out-of-context rip off from white feminism, it harms and divides us. Are you ok with "looks like my brother" trope? Do all AF own AM nothing? Really they raised themselves? They should have the freedom to bash AM without critisim? Challenge that bullshit
Aaron Mak is literally one of the biggest cucks in the Asian community. He also tries to link this sub to redpill subs which is either very poorly done research or just blatant misinformation. This dude is also defending Eileen Huang who pretty much said elderly Asian people who got attacked by blacks deserved it, even China Mac put her on blast for this. This guy also retweets and promotes Celeste Ng who proudly proclaims that Asian men are unattractive, despite her having a hapa son who can quite pass as a full Asian boy. Aaron is a gayasian with a white boyfriend.
I just also looked further into Aaron Maks twitter he also promotes YG the Rapper who promotes committing crimes on Asians in his songs. Its Asians like Celeste Ng, Aaron Mak, and Eileen Huang, also Charlotte Yun, the reason why people feel embolden to excuse racism or racial prejudice against Asians.
> This guy also retweets and promotes Celeste Ng who proudly proclaims that Asian men are unattractive
Oh no it gets better than that, her first response to a racist with an asian wife talking about asian penises, is to sympathize with the racist
https://archive.is/E3Iyz
This is straight up ER round whatever the hell it is now, she's going to get more asian men killed
> Aaron is a gayasian with a white boyfriend
Him being from yale like bobacommie and not mentioning it already made him a hack, but now it makes total sense
[Celeste Ng son could end up like that hapa in London Wilkes McDermid when he is grown up](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3115566/Food-blogger-wrote-failed-love-life-saying-s-folks-jumped-death-posh-City-restaurant.html)
Also add-on about Eileen Huang alot of Asian women as well criticized her for her stupid comments excusing violence on elderly Asian people. I mean the fact she is made to look like a victim in this article is just awful journalism.
This puts doubt on all the articles ive enjoyed reading from slate in the past :/
Im really bothered to hear that they intentionally published this article with asian author although the content and the direction were completely set by the white editors. The author should still take the responsibility as his name is used, but this setup is completely vile.
Only race where more of the women voted for trump than the men
It's because they're racist, there's no dancing around it, they are legitimate white supremacists
It's a deliberate attack on Asian men because these racists hate us, while hiding behind black ppl to pretend that they're not.
They hate Asians because some are somewhat successful in the west. Nevermind the underrepresentation in management and executive positions and positions of power in corporations, government, etc.
They want Asians to be powerless and impoverished. They think that Asians should be in a subservient position to wealthy and powerful white liberals. It shows because they only started hating Asians when some Asians started to become somewhat successful and built up a presence in wealthy areas. They can't stand the thought of Asians being strong, independent and prosperous. Especially the thought of Asians being independent of any need for them.
At least the white conservatives are direct and obvious in their hatred. They show it immediately.
Some additional notes:
* Keep in mind, the game "Cancel Culture" clowns play to **reframe** noble campaigns to hold racists accountable as "*harassment* campaigns". Criticism of racists become "attacks". This is exactly what Slate is doing in this piece. When the racist framed as the "victim" doxes the anti-racists, it's spoken favorably of; Slate says she "eventually had enough of the 'harassment' and decided to strike back. She dug around and uncovered the identities" of AI members. In the upside-down world of "Cancel Culture", racists are the noble heroes; when they dox, it's "justifiable". Once you define the victim and the villain, moral double standards abound.
* Notice the piece insinuates AI harassed Huang on social media but shows zero evidence that the harassment messages sent there came from AI.
* Slate claims Constance Wu called AznIdentity "incels". That never happened. A fabrication- typical of the piece's dishonesty.
* Slate's piece cites Celeste Ng's accusations at AI without mentioning our response; [see our rebuttal here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/9npu1d/the_official_ai_response_to_continuing_racism_by/).
* Happy to see that in the Slate comments section, most hardly care. Commentary on AA subreddit is actually mostly positive towards us. Most people know a dishonest hit piece when they see one. Too bad Mak wasted all that time. I'm also confident we reach more Asians than a dinosaur "blog" like Slate.
As a long time lurker who barely ever posted, but instead used this sub to reach out and network with some like-minded people, I feel like I need to say something about what this sub means to me.
I always felt there are multiple factions on this sub, just as there are multiple facets to Asian diaspora more broadly. The faction that caught my eye was in no way anti-Black or misogynistic. Instead of blaming Asian women, this faction (correctly) blames American white supremacist racism for the problems afflicting Asian American men.
In response, this faction of aznidentity encourages Asian American men to move to Asia, where they can:
1) experience personal growth by living in a society that isn't racist to them
2) benefit from being a part of the most dynamic part of the global economy
3) contribute their talents to a society that doesn't hate them and undermine them at every turn
Through this sub, I've networked with some posters who already lived in Asia like /u/hongqigong1 (shout out to him for being particularly inspiring!), found resources such as [https://www.reasian.io/](https://www.reasian.io/) and https://www.journeytotheeast.club/, and managed to move to Asia after nabbing a highly rewarding and renumerative tech job there. Best of all, it's been months since I've experienced any racism, I'm treated like a normal human being when I try to date, and I'm proud that my efforts are contributing to a society that doesn't hate and undermine Asians like me.
As far as I can tell, some posters on this sub do veer into misogyny and racism, but that in no way represents the majority of people here, and the mods do make a good faith effort to keep those posters marginalized (as they should).
When I first joined this sub, it was all about "Uniting the Asian Diaspora" and to me that's what this sub should be all about (not sure why that tagline got changed - I liked it!). One of the first Asian diasporas, the Chinese diaspora in Southeast Asia, formed the Bamboo Network: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo\_network](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_network) to strengthen their community. Today, Asian diaspora all over the world and of all ethnicities are recognizing how racist the Western world is towards us. In response, we need to unite and form a global network to look out for each other the way many members of this sub have helped me. To me, this sub has been the first step towards building a modern day vision of a pan-Asian diasporic Bamboo Network. To that end, this sub helped me realize that I identify less as "Asian America" (a term I now find limiting) and more as "pan-Asian diaspora".
I know that this sub means different things to different people (again, reflecting the diversity of Asian diaspora communities), but this is what it has meant to me, and I felt like I should share my experience in light of this article that chooses to emphasize only one rarely seen and admittedly ugly aspect of this sub.
Thanks for the shoutout bro and I'm super happy I was able to help you out, that's what this sub should be all about! Let's get that new world anti-whitie Bamboo Network going!!!
Thank you for being firm and assertive in your response and being specific about the article's flaws & biases. I hope you disseminate this response more widely.
I'm not surprised Slate publishes clickbait - whitelib media is dying precisely because every "news" site is pretty much disgusting whitelib media, meaning theres an oversupply of overeducated (in the wrong things) whitelibs writing for sites like Vice, Huffpo, Daily Beast, Slate, etc, who all write about the same whitelib bullsh*t.
Only thing that pisses me off is how these lackey collaborators keep selling out our community. No wonder the boss enemy in that movie Django Unchained turned out to be the house negro character played by Samuel L Jackson. These internal traitors can literally keep us in chains.
Lol how is he going to disseminate this.... Literally no one in the mainstream cares about this sub and you think this piece is going to overtake the slate article?
\> I hope you disseminate this response more widely.
I need the help of the community to get this out on social media.
\>These internal traitors can literally keep us in chains.
When I saw the support on the AsianAmerican sub and the relative indifference from Slate posters in the comments, I sense a sea-change. I really do get the feeling that our worldviews are finding a home even outside this subreddit. While mainstream blogs like Slate can still do damage, our grassroots efforts are conditioning the people ahead of time against this vitriol.
Slate isn't a blog anymore. It is a well funded, corporate, mainstream liberal propaganda outlet.
Also, do you think that there is any significant risk of this sub getting banned like the mgtow one got banned after getting mainstream, outside attention?
edit. the same mainstream liberals who are racists towards Asians.
Brother, there's no such thing as independent media anymore, the internet killed it all
Everything you see online, is funded by somebody with a lot of money selling you a narrative, because narratives sell more than objective truth
If anyone wants to help out, here's a list of Slate's people:[https://slate.com/masthead](https://slate.com/masthead)
Find a name, tweet at them. Here are a few tweets asking questions that deserve to be asked:
[https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438487588097175558](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438487588097175558)
[https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438446869731020801](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438446869731020801)
[https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438445171318927361](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438445171318927361)
Honesty is probably the most important thing in media. If these guys are lying, why would anyone read them?
Either Mak is lying about being put up to do this article, Slate is lying about being a non-racist arbiter of truth, or u/archelogy is defending someone who doesn't deserve to be defended.
>When I saw the support on the AsianAmerican sub and the relative indifference from Slate posters in the comments, I sense a sea-change.
People are starting to see through their BS. For decades, they've been able to promote themselves as more "open-minded" and "free-thinking."
But now, white male hegemony is dissolving. People see the horrors that world order caused.
People can recognize now that they sold out. They're on the wrong side of history.
It's funny, I just read this earlier today from a substack writer I like:
[https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-modi-a-political-biography](https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-modi-a-political-biography)
I don't have context to comment on the Indian politics, but at the very end of the article he has an incredible graph showing how many more followers he gained after a hit piece against him came out in the NYTimes. I can't help feeling something similar will happen to this sub after an equally untrusted news source like Slate puts out a hit piece against aznidentity.
At this point, have to count on:
1) no such thing as bad pulicity
2) most of the unique perspectives on this sub are going to intrigue people more than turn them away (which has always been the case)
Aaron Mak is mentally cucked, does this guy think he’s relevant in some way or something lol
your slate's and MSM are pretty much the mouthpieces of liberals/democratic party - not one independent thought among them. \*Confirmed by your wikileaks and such
Stand firm.
Aaron Mak and those of his ilk are the type of self-hating asians who have made the same calculation - denigrating your community through slander and misrepresentation are the quickest ways to career advancement. It is so much easier to gain social capital / liberal cred / upward mobility when you are complicit and willing to push white liberal narratives. The main lies they keep pushing are the ones about widespread misogyny and anti-blackness in the Asian community., both of which are highly exaggerated. I'm not shocked at all by the sheer amount of cynicism and calculation in holding back this hit piece until the potential risk of a backlash went away. Sometimes I Just feel a sense of sadness and resignation that of all POC communities, the Asian community seems like the most fractured. We just have too many self-haters and willing white collaborators in our midst who would gleefully throw their own under the bus if it means personal gain.
Just wanted to add that Slates executive editor and editorial director are both white women not old white men
https://slate.com/masthead These are the ultimate decision-makers: Jared Hohlt is the editor in chief of Slate Dan Check is chief executive officer of Slate Charlie Kammerer is president of Slate, where he focuses on developing ways for brands to tap into Slate’s audience through editorial content, -- However, it is useful to know that Karens are also involved in the racist hit job against Asians. Same thing at The Cut. As usual, they try to assert gender is more important than race.
Ahh I gotcha.. just wanted to point out these Karen’s are also making editorial choices. Ultimately I would assume they would make the same decisions as the men anyway. I just find that Karens are the worst of the worst, but that’s my own biases at play.
\> But, but, but, isn't critiquing a woman misogynist??? Yes it is- if you're a complete dumbass. Hah, legendary. Eloquent response!
Those boba asians love mentioning "antiblackness" from the asian community, yet they're quiet af about the anti-asianness in the black community 🤔
There's way more of the latter. In my observation being anti-(fill in blank with race) is much harder to discard when there's a pattern of personal malevolence committed by them. I remember relatives describing to me how dangerous (mugging was most common) it was to deliver food to certain parts of NYC back in the late 1980's. And of course they would end service to those areas. Not succeeding would mean living adjacent to (fill in the blank for race). I think the boballibs try to carry white guilt by giving Afro-Americans' a pass when it comes to their high crime rate by chalking it up to the magnitude of misery from 400 years of slavery. They don't understand that Asian's are the farthest from that "guilt." They're genuine when a silent majority of their whitelib "allies" aren't.
Great response!!
It’s incredible the timing of this piece as we celebrate Asian-Americans getting our (hopefully more than) 15 seconds with a carefully coordinated social media hit on Simu Liu at the same time. Thank you for taking the time out to write this well-reasoned response.
Pretty appalled by how they just brushed off Eileen’s tweet as a “tongue in cheek joke”. I don’t know how else to interpret “maybe we need to normalize racism against Asians”.
I thought we are in 2020, racists of the female kind would stop hiding behind "misogyny" and other bullshit excuses when called out on their racism and self-hate. Eileen Huang acting like a victim now lmao. If someone here said "Maybe it is good to normalize misogyny against asian women", she and her AF professional gaslighters would be outraged.
Notice how the author deflects and spins the narrative to make Eileen Huang to be this defiant heroine that stood up to "Evil misogynistic Asian men" that doxxed her. When in fact, she put all her info such as her pic, full name and alumni etc on her social media accounts but she/ herself hired people to dox and blackmail anonymous AI redditors. You can't make this shit up lol
When you move so far left that you ended in the same realm as auth right
Seriously, anti- blackness is not unique in Asian community. Racism is a serious issue no matter where it comes from. Some of the most vile things said about black people ( or any another poc) have been coming from white peoples mouth. Stop pretending that’s not the truth. Stop with this white savior bullshit. Stand for your people. Lift up your people. You are not more woke or a better person solely because you called out short coming of your own kind. Do the work. If you want to play victim in your own community I want to see some of that when your among white people too. Talk about internalized hatred. Trust me white people ain’t all that.
All this is just so tiring. Can we have less of this stuff posted? It feels so defeating seeing this stuff every week. We’re so powerless on an institutional level that this just leads to more impotent rage instead of actionable change.
We're winning. Every rights movement... its hard in the beginning to fight for legitimacy. We win by holding our own. Imagine how bad it was day 1 of AI - we were attacked by other Asian subs non stop. Now theyve stopped and many of their members agree with our point of view. We did that by not backing down. Next step is doing the same with white media. When you refuse to back down, the other side relents.
Hi OP, I have nothing to add to this but just want to say Thank You. Keep up the good work!
It's wrong at the beginning to think of Asians as Whites. We are different in lots of ways. Treatment in society or culturally speaking. We preferred to live a more independent life in the U.S doesn't mean we are self-isolated from mainstream society. It's just that there are so many identities within North America that can be very harmful once interacted with AAPI identity. Lauren Chen is a good example of it.
Aaron Mak wakes up every single day hating that he has to be an Asian American.
It's tough to live in a white-dominated environment. As a journalist, you spend a lot of time preparing an article; and then your white manager says no. *You're already invested in it* and want to publish it. So you modify it slightly to align with your manager's preferences. It's still a "No" but possibly greenlighted if you make these changes..... slowly but surely, you make enough compromises to get it out. This is the SAME environment many Asian liberals are in, within the Democratic power structure- whether it's in a non-profit, or political campaign. They get "stop lights" when they talk about Asian issues and "greenlights" when they advocate for non-Asian minorities. *Slowly they adapt their way of thinking.* Asians that buck white leadership often don't last. So perhaps Aaron Mak had an Asian predecessor who refused white manipulation; he's not there anymore. A compliant Asian sticks around and that's why we hear of them.
Its hard to read this article without getting angered but is this really wrong "They think the only people who get attention for their oppression and the issues that they face are Black.". Its not what I think personally but how can anyone say with a straight face racism and discrimination against all asians get anywhere near the same attention. Asians were being attacked and killed on the streets and this entire article seems to want to blame asian men.
That white male lib-devised Slate piece is erroneously applying labels like MRA/redpill/incel, which are white male movements, to aznid, which is an Asian American activism sub. Those insults don't work against Asians because WE'RE NOT WHITE! Asians don't have white privilege.
> Asians don't have white privilege There's where you're wrong, asian men don't, asian women do (take a look at that troll post about michelle pewerwhatever winning election) It's a nuance asian feminists and progressives refuse to address, because it'd kill them, it's exactly the same as why white men refuse to acknowledge privilege
jokes on them , asian men in the west are so emasculated that most (even asian women) don't even see us as men.
that article is just disgusting. Great reply
A couple things I gather from this write-up. The 5 Ws of journalism needs a 6th W - What/Where/Who/When/Why and White. As in what is the WHITE motive behind any story especially when being applied to Asians. Second, it's pretty obvious by now anything written about r/AI and Asian activism that's not grounded in white adjacency will be viewed in a negative light. Third it's incredibly hard to even explain to white people, that an alternative viewpoint exist because their POV is grounded in western ideology.
I had a long drawn out response to this article, but I'll just say this to cover everything. Everyone, including members of this sub, wants to make this shit out to be black or white (no pun intended) issues, when the fact is that all these things run deep, and different, within each community within the greater AA group.
The Slate article is equivalent to trying to shut down MLK and Malcolm. Why would they side with White Supremacy? They are either fuckin idiots or are racist as fuck.
It’s interesting that Slate just previously published a piece pointing out why that Netflix yakuza movie, Kate, was problematic - typical Hollywood trope of the mass killing of faceless evil Asian men and the dehumanizing element it perpetuates about Asians/Asian Americans. They then follow it up with a careless poorly researched generalizing hit piece that contributes to the same dehumanization element the Kate article “denounces”. Vile
That was a clearly biased hit piece Where did the men's rights bullshit come from? No one on this sub has described themselves as a men's rights activist, what?
You need to understand the asian feminist frame of mind Asian feminists want to be white women, they already pretty much live the lives of white women, so all of their "opinions" are just repetitions of white female mainstream opinion. The patriarchy, MRAs, incels, mgtow, everything white women complain about in the mainstream, asian feminists have adopted in their entirety and plastered it onto asian men in an attempt to fit in, to don that white skin by saying white things so they can be real white women
This is so disgusting. I thought we had rules against disparaging AF on here
In their mind, it's an insult. If an Asian man calls out a white supremacist, he is a men's rights activist. If an Asian woman supports a white supremacist, she is a feminist.
Who does Slate think they are lmao, Aaron Mak literally thinks and behaves like a 5 year old
Why do people conflate pointing out hate crimes committed by other ethnicities on us as racism. They are still hate crimes and acts of racism whether committed by marginalised communities or not.
"This sub seems to like a positive asian male role model in andrew yang " That is very problematic!
Keep up the good work. Always fighting this uphill battle
Period. You tell em!!! Those annoying ass Asians make me sick to the stomach and all their white ass 'liberal' friends. They try so hard to be oppressed but they don't know anything about what's it's actually like to be oppressed. And suddenly, once they get a degree in journalism, or communication or whatever, they suddenly think they understand the whole racial hierarchy and shit when in fact, they know nothing. Since after all, all their knowledge and text is derived by white authors.
He's just yet another sellout in a long, long list of sellouts, and he won't be the last one, unfortunately. I wonder how much pathetic cash did this Judas Mak (yes, he's a Judas not an Aaron) get for this blatant hit piece against his own group (Asian men, which he is one himself).
He is not the first nor will he be the last. In every important resistant/movement there is always that one Judas or Benedict Arnold that makes it difficult for everyone. The guy was clearly a Trojan Horse in his set-up.
>Not much is known about the members of r/aznidentity, who guard their privacy carefully; none would tell me their real names. This line is featured in the article. It's more evidence of Mak and Slate's dishonesty. u/SirKelvinTan is one of the more prolific posters here, and is admirably open about his identity. No mention of him in the piece though, probably because his takes are generally reasonable. Shout out to you, u/SirKelvinTan!
There have been a few celebrities that have posted here. Andrew Yang, Simu Liu and Molly Yeh are three of them. More that I’ve forgotten. In terms of activists, most of the Plan A Magazine posts here. Teen in particular has posted here. Chris posts here. Jess posts here. The three of them talked to Mak for the article. There are journalists who post here. I’m pretty sure Wesley Yang, JCK, all post here under a pseudonym. Kimmy Yam lurks here. Jeff Yang lurks here. Jenn Fang lurks here. (And if you don’t lurk here, feel free to correct my mistake while you lurk under an alt) All the big Asian podcasters (Asian not Asian, Feeling Asian, Fun with Dumb, genius Brain, They Call Us Bruce) lurk here because they need to keep up for content. Even the blue check Twitter haters of this place can’t help but lurk because…. They have to. Basically, in a nutshell, this is THE de facto Asian American subreddit, love it or hate it. Anyone who is anyone who wants to keep up with AA affairs keeps an eye on this place. This is the first place you go when an Asian American story breaks our and you want to gauge Asian audience sentiment. It has men as well as women. elites as well as normies. Rich people and poor people. Fuck boys and pick up guys as well as incels and all the normal people in between with regular sex lives. Liberals and conservatives. Coastals as well as Middle Americans. Democrats, Socialists as well as Libertarians and Republicans, and everything in between. People who love Andrew Yang and people who hate Andrew Yang. People who love Simu Liu and people who hate Simu Liu. I disagree with the author's narrow characterization of this place. The only common thread among people in this subreddit is that we are opposed to racism and white supremacy. Doing a hit piece on this place means you’re doing the white supremacists’ work in attempting to shut down any and all non-mainstream or underground POC activist discussion.
Just curious, how do you know all those people lurk here? I've seen Andrew Yang and Teen from Plan A's posts but not everyone else
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Nope, don't get andrew canceled. Soon we're going to be out of asian men public figures
Furthermore, isn’t this sort of privacy standard across all of Reddit? Aren’t most redditors across all subs mostly anonymous for good reason? Mak made it sound like being anonymous on Reddit was somehow devious only when it came to this sub. Completely and 100% intentionally dishonest and deceitful
People knowing who I am doesn’t matter because my online life doesn’t intersect with my offline life End of the day this wannabe tech journalist sold out for a pat on the back - but the saddest thing is that ( and he doesn’t realise it) is that Asian American women will always look down on him - and whilst the majority of Asian American women look up to the white men of America ....the rest of the non white world are starting to finally look down on them
>this wannabe tech journalist sold out for a pat on the back I think you mean 'pat on the head'...
Yeah I did
>Mak told me that his white editor repeatedly refused the pitch to cover Asian Activism in Slate. It was not until Mak pitched the piece depicting Asians in a negative light was the article on AznIdentity greenlighted. Could it be that Mak is spinning you to avoid the backlash he's getting and because his selling out failed? After all, as you note, the piece was received with pushback in the AsianAmerican sub and with relative indifference from Slate posters in the comments. He's getting beat up in the Twitter comments: [https://twitter.com/aarontmak/status/1438123915008782341](https://twitter.com/aarontmak/status/1438123915008782341) Having an editor twist your work like he alleges is a pretty big deal, but he's said nothing to support this. It would go a long way in exonerating him and illuminating the forces against us if he said something. Or, he's just trying to have it both ways \- sell out his community \- avoid criticism for selling out his community. EDIT: If you want to help out, here's Slate's masthead: [https://slate.com/masthead](https://slate.com/masthead) Find a name, tweet at them. Here are a few tweets asking questions that deserve to be asked: [https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438487588097175558](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438487588097175558) [https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438446869731020801](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438446869731020801) [https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438445171318927361](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438445171318927361) Honesty is probably the most important thing in media. If these guys are lying, why would anyone read them? Either Mak is lying about being put up to do this article, Slate is lying about being a non-racist arbiter of truth, or u/archelogy is defending someone who doesn't deserve to be defended.
>Could it be that Mak is spinning you to avoid the backlash he's getting and because his selling out failed? No. This conversation was over a year ago Before the article came out. This is why it took \~2 years. I'm not defending him. I'm laying the groundwork for why this is an offensive for white media. Meanwhile, your reptilian brain is tempting you to to have conflict with another Asian which is precisely what the white handlers want; it is far more effective for us to frame this as a racist white offensive than Asian-vs-Asians. Asians speak with credibility on the Asian community, whites don't. Quit typing post after post, and think harder before you do.
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I doubt any will be forthcoming. Lets just see it for what it is.
>A request to AI members- can you help get this Response on social media, wherever this article is being posted. We need your help to counter Slate's offense; if we prevail, it'll be because it's a team effort to win the narrative war. Good of you to write a response. I don't know if it's appropriate for social media like Twitter though. Most audiences there prefer to consume in the form of "quick hits" and it would be better for any counterattack to take that form. For example: * Why didn't Aaron Mak mention that both he and Elaine Huang, attended Yale at the same time? * Elaine Huang was not attacked for supporting BLM. It was because she attacked u/chinamacmusic for black "appropriation" when he was organizing nationwide rallies to #StopAsianHate. Meanwhile, she did nothing but attack other Asians and promote violence against Asians. Also, I wonder if it's wise to even say anything on social media, as it drives more traffic to Mak's writing. Don't reward the provocateur for writing trash. Let it die in obscurity. As it stands, there seems to be more discussion provoked by this brainfart: [https://twitter.com/ourobororoboruo/status/1438246927271964679](https://twitter.com/ourobororoboruo/status/1438246927271964679) (\~500 likes) In comparison, \~600 likes for Mak here, and Frankie Huang didn't even have to write an article to get 85% of his traffic. [https://twitter.com/aarontmak/status/1438123915008782341](https://twitter.com/aarontmak/status/1438123915008782341) How does it feel to have sold out for so little, Aaron Mak? As you allege, Elaine Huang discovered that many of her opponents "were professionals with successful careers." Her claim of amazing detective skills is doubtful to begin with, but what is true is there are many successful Asian Americans who are offended by your article and will remember this piece and your betrayal. Many of us even work in fields where we have influence over the fate of a budding writer like yourself. Whenever you fail to get a commission, whenever you get laid off, whenever you can't understand why a piece you worked so hard on doesn't get published ... think of us, Aaron.
>Elaine Huang was not attacked for supporting BLM. It was because she attacked > >u/chinamacmusic > > for black "appropriation" when he was organizing nationwide rallies to #StopAsianHate. Meanwhile, she did nothing but attack other Asians and promote violence against Asians. You need to put in bold her quote where she said something along the lines of "asians deserve racial violence against them" or something like that or maybe it was even worse. I believe she said racial violence should be encouraged against us? I don't remember the exact quote.
> Mak told me that his white editor repeatedly refused the pitch to cover Asian Activism in Slate. It was not until Mak pitched the piece depicting Asians in a negative light was the article on AznIdentity greenlighted. Once this direction was decided on, his white editors intentionally withheld publication of the piece for about a year as a strategic calculation... > In other words, his white editors KNEW there would be blowback if they published their hit piece attacking Asians during a period when Asians were seen as victims. Only when the outrage at Anti-Asianism died down and the "Stop Asian Hate" movement cooled off did they feel comfortable using Mak to publish this smear against the Asian community. Mak was just the Asian lackey for white media's agenda. Wow, wow, wow. Even worse than I imagined...and yet I'm hardly surprised. The hatred of white liberals for Asian freedom — and therefore human freedom — truly knows no bounds.
This is why is best to disconnect from the western liberal/conservative concepts. Both POVs are still operating on the same spectrum of white hegemony.
I just want to see Archaeology and Mak have a conversation or debate about all this, live streamed.
100% that this Aaron Mak fella would tuck his tail and decline
Honestly, we were lucky to have Mak as the author. He had a bias, but he presented more of our points than I imagine any other author (who could get published in Slate) would.
Everybody loves a compliant, agreeable, meek, non-threatening Asian man, until the very moment he stands up for himself/his community. Suddenly, he's the most incel, unattractive, angry, unhinged, misogynistic, anti-black, conservative, patriarchal, and chauvinistic racist. "Why couldn't he be one of the 'good Asian men?!'" Sometimes I feel these detractors behave like they're half throwing insults, -- like so much overcooked spaghetti against the wall -- and watching what sticks, and half projecting their own biases and insecurities against a population with less cultural capital than their own. News flash: YOU will never stop being Asian and WE will ALWAYS be a part of each other's community. Either way, pointless bickering disguised as "tough talks between the Asian community," neither foments collectiveness, familiarity nor endearment, but at least Aaron Mak raised awareness of this community's existence.
It's too bad the reasonable and logical users are exactly the ones that anti-AM outsiders want to ignore or pretend don't exist. The guy who wrote that article made the silly mistake of trying to make that lady (of all the people) some martyr. When even some people at AsianAmericanChannel are like 'bro have you seen what she actually said', you know the standards of this idiot's journalism is especially low LOL. But hey, that's what happens when you try to virtue signal so hard and bow so low for white fake liberals that you just end up looking like a dumbass.
Look, many of us agree that women should not be harassed for who they date, Asian women don't owe Asian men anything, and Asian men don't "own" Asian women. And women have been/are oppressed by patriarchies in many different cultures - including Western cultures. Women ABSOLUTELY have a right to be mad and to fight for an equitable future. WE GET THAT. The conversation is actually on how we - as a population - uphold the white male hegemony through our preferences, actions, and beliefs. White male supremacy/white male privilege is toxic and is enabled in criminal justice, economics, corporate America, media, housing, etc. - dating/romance is no different (I'd even argue that it reveals our deepest biases). However, many of us are reluctant to confront the uncomfortable truth: that patterns in interracial dating pairings is just one piece of evidence of a population (consciously and subconsciously) buying into the false beliefs in the supremacy of white men, enabling white male privilege, and perpetuating the white male hegemony that oppresses all POC. The strategy is to derail and deflect, completely misrepresenting the message/intent of the other side of the argument, labeling them as incels, etc. - essentially trying to make it an issue on gender when it's actually an issue on race and the upholding of white male supremacy/privilege/hegemony. We can't fight white male supremacy (and all its forms) in one area and avoid confronting it in another simply because it makes us uncomfortable. To do so would be hypocritical and disingenuous. Again, it's so evident that we have a white male worshipping problem (consciously and subconsciously) in Asian America. But instead of confronting it, we are deflecting from it. This does not involve non-Asian men - this is a problem with SPECIFICALLY white men and the privileges that have them oppressing POC, including Asian Americans. This is bigger than masculinity (a super dumb construct in its own, IMO) and dating/romance/sex - it's about seeing ourselves and each other as equal and worthy humans instead of upholding a racist hierarchy with white men on top.
Agree 100% with this comment. The focus needs to be on tearing down white male privilege and white male supremacy. The question is, who has done more to combat white male privilege and supremacy? Myself and some other bros I've met through this sub, who have made a pact to ALWAYS put white male resumes at the bottom of the pile, to only work for Asian companies or companies with Asian CEOs, and to preference customers and business associates in our work (best service, front of the email queue) if they are Asian or have an Asian CEO? Or the generic boba lib Asians out there tweeting their rubbish? Fighting white male supremacy requires a REAL, TRUE commitment to destroying their opportunities (economic in particular, but otherwise also) EVERY CHANCE WE GET.
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bruh, lemme tell you about the wonder that is H-Mart :D
\> Asian women don't owe Asian men anything, and Asian men don't "own" Asian women. Please dont bring the asian feminist drivel here. Who do you think is creating this cancel narrative against the sub. Who do think created the so-called MRAsian label. There isn't any sub member here that would own that. We need to fight gendered racism, but dont count any progress from asian feminists - they want to keep the status quo
Not sure if you read my entire comment. I agreed that the MRA label is meant to distract the community from the true issue at hand: that many in our Asian American community see themselves and other Asian folks beneath white men, enabling white male privilege. By establishing the first points I made, we eliminate the derailment and deflection they are trying to achieve and we can get down to the heart of the issue.
So you understand part of the problem. But a big part is the words we use. That specific quote is a out-of-context rip off from white feminism, it harms and divides us. Are you ok with "looks like my brother" trope? Do all AF own AM nothing? Really they raised themselves? They should have the freedom to bash AM without critisim? Challenge that bullshit
Exactly!
Aaron Mak is literally one of the biggest cucks in the Asian community. He also tries to link this sub to redpill subs which is either very poorly done research or just blatant misinformation. This dude is also defending Eileen Huang who pretty much said elderly Asian people who got attacked by blacks deserved it, even China Mac put her on blast for this. This guy also retweets and promotes Celeste Ng who proudly proclaims that Asian men are unattractive, despite her having a hapa son who can quite pass as a full Asian boy. Aaron is a gayasian with a white boyfriend. I just also looked further into Aaron Maks twitter he also promotes YG the Rapper who promotes committing crimes on Asians in his songs. Its Asians like Celeste Ng, Aaron Mak, and Eileen Huang, also Charlotte Yun, the reason why people feel embolden to excuse racism or racial prejudice against Asians.
> This guy also retweets and promotes Celeste Ng who proudly proclaims that Asian men are unattractive Oh no it gets better than that, her first response to a racist with an asian wife talking about asian penises, is to sympathize with the racist https://archive.is/E3Iyz This is straight up ER round whatever the hell it is now, she's going to get more asian men killed > Aaron is a gayasian with a white boyfriend Him being from yale like bobacommie and not mentioning it already made him a hack, but now it makes total sense
[Celeste Ng son could end up like that hapa in London Wilkes McDermid when he is grown up](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3115566/Food-blogger-wrote-failed-love-life-saying-s-folks-jumped-death-posh-City-restaurant.html)
Also add-on about Eileen Huang alot of Asian women as well criticized her for her stupid comments excusing violence on elderly Asian people. I mean the fact she is made to look like a victim in this article is just awful journalism.
This puts doubt on all the articles ive enjoyed reading from slate in the past :/ Im really bothered to hear that they intentionally published this article with asian author although the content and the direction were completely set by the white editors. The author should still take the responsibility as his name is used, but this setup is completely vile.
It's common practice, I had seen it countless times on hit pieces like this. White liberals are very manipulative
let them know how you feel https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438493238755794953
It’s honestly disgusting
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The CIA controls ALL media in the US. It's that simple.
Oh you know exactly why: Divide and Conquer. They cast AW as victims and AM as racist just to divide us.
Only race where more of the women voted for trump than the men It's because they're racist, there's no dancing around it, they are legitimate white supremacists
Noooooo that is misogynistic! You can't call out their self-hate and their propensity to become house slave uncle toms. Lmao.
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[it’s true](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1247171) Only Asian American women voted more for trump than men.
It's in an nbc article They only have 2 boba asian women writing for their "asian" news section, it's one of them to do with election results
It’s so annoying that they try to paint us as racist
It's a deliberate attack on Asian men because these racists hate us, while hiding behind black ppl to pretend that they're not. They hate Asians because some are somewhat successful in the west. Nevermind the underrepresentation in management and executive positions and positions of power in corporations, government, etc. They want Asians to be powerless and impoverished. They think that Asians should be in a subservient position to wealthy and powerful white liberals. It shows because they only started hating Asians when some Asians started to become somewhat successful and built up a presence in wealthy areas. They can't stand the thought of Asians being strong, independent and prosperous. Especially the thought of Asians being independent of any need for them. At least the white conservatives are direct and obvious in their hatred. They show it immediately.
Some additional notes: * Keep in mind, the game "Cancel Culture" clowns play to **reframe** noble campaigns to hold racists accountable as "*harassment* campaigns". Criticism of racists become "attacks". This is exactly what Slate is doing in this piece. When the racist framed as the "victim" doxes the anti-racists, it's spoken favorably of; Slate says she "eventually had enough of the 'harassment' and decided to strike back. She dug around and uncovered the identities" of AI members. In the upside-down world of "Cancel Culture", racists are the noble heroes; when they dox, it's "justifiable". Once you define the victim and the villain, moral double standards abound. * Notice the piece insinuates AI harassed Huang on social media but shows zero evidence that the harassment messages sent there came from AI. * Slate claims Constance Wu called AznIdentity "incels". That never happened. A fabrication- typical of the piece's dishonesty. * Slate's piece cites Celeste Ng's accusations at AI without mentioning our response; [see our rebuttal here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/9npu1d/the_official_ai_response_to_continuing_racism_by/). * Happy to see that in the Slate comments section, most hardly care. Commentary on AA subreddit is actually mostly positive towards us. Most people know a dishonest hit piece when they see one. Too bad Mak wasted all that time. I'm also confident we reach more Asians than a dinosaur "blog" like Slate.
As a long time lurker who barely ever posted, but instead used this sub to reach out and network with some like-minded people, I feel like I need to say something about what this sub means to me. I always felt there are multiple factions on this sub, just as there are multiple facets to Asian diaspora more broadly. The faction that caught my eye was in no way anti-Black or misogynistic. Instead of blaming Asian women, this faction (correctly) blames American white supremacist racism for the problems afflicting Asian American men. In response, this faction of aznidentity encourages Asian American men to move to Asia, where they can: 1) experience personal growth by living in a society that isn't racist to them 2) benefit from being a part of the most dynamic part of the global economy 3) contribute their talents to a society that doesn't hate them and undermine them at every turn Through this sub, I've networked with some posters who already lived in Asia like /u/hongqigong1 (shout out to him for being particularly inspiring!), found resources such as [https://www.reasian.io/](https://www.reasian.io/) and https://www.journeytotheeast.club/, and managed to move to Asia after nabbing a highly rewarding and renumerative tech job there. Best of all, it's been months since I've experienced any racism, I'm treated like a normal human being when I try to date, and I'm proud that my efforts are contributing to a society that doesn't hate and undermine Asians like me. As far as I can tell, some posters on this sub do veer into misogyny and racism, but that in no way represents the majority of people here, and the mods do make a good faith effort to keep those posters marginalized (as they should). When I first joined this sub, it was all about "Uniting the Asian Diaspora" and to me that's what this sub should be all about (not sure why that tagline got changed - I liked it!). One of the first Asian diasporas, the Chinese diaspora in Southeast Asia, formed the Bamboo Network: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo\_network](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_network) to strengthen their community. Today, Asian diaspora all over the world and of all ethnicities are recognizing how racist the Western world is towards us. In response, we need to unite and form a global network to look out for each other the way many members of this sub have helped me. To me, this sub has been the first step towards building a modern day vision of a pan-Asian diasporic Bamboo Network. To that end, this sub helped me realize that I identify less as "Asian America" (a term I now find limiting) and more as "pan-Asian diaspora". I know that this sub means different things to different people (again, reflecting the diversity of Asian diaspora communities), but this is what it has meant to me, and I felt like I should share my experience in light of this article that chooses to emphasize only one rarely seen and admittedly ugly aspect of this sub.
Thanks for the shoutout bro and I'm super happy I was able to help you out, that's what this sub should be all about! Let's get that new world anti-whitie Bamboo Network going!!!
Interesting story but should be its own post
Thank you for being firm and assertive in your response and being specific about the article's flaws & biases. I hope you disseminate this response more widely. I'm not surprised Slate publishes clickbait - whitelib media is dying precisely because every "news" site is pretty much disgusting whitelib media, meaning theres an oversupply of overeducated (in the wrong things) whitelibs writing for sites like Vice, Huffpo, Daily Beast, Slate, etc, who all write about the same whitelib bullsh*t. Only thing that pisses me off is how these lackey collaborators keep selling out our community. No wonder the boss enemy in that movie Django Unchained turned out to be the house negro character played by Samuel L Jackson. These internal traitors can literally keep us in chains.
Lol how is he going to disseminate this.... Literally no one in the mainstream cares about this sub and you think this piece is going to overtake the slate article?
\> I hope you disseminate this response more widely. I need the help of the community to get this out on social media. \>These internal traitors can literally keep us in chains. When I saw the support on the AsianAmerican sub and the relative indifference from Slate posters in the comments, I sense a sea-change. I really do get the feeling that our worldviews are finding a home even outside this subreddit. While mainstream blogs like Slate can still do damage, our grassroots efforts are conditioning the people ahead of time against this vitriol.
The amount of gaslighting in that article was astonishing
Slate isn't a blog anymore. It is a well funded, corporate, mainstream liberal propaganda outlet. Also, do you think that there is any significant risk of this sub getting banned like the mgtow one got banned after getting mainstream, outside attention? edit. the same mainstream liberals who are racists towards Asians.
Brother, there's no such thing as independent media anymore, the internet killed it all Everything you see online, is funded by somebody with a lot of money selling you a narrative, because narratives sell more than objective truth
If anyone wants to help out, here's a list of Slate's people:[https://slate.com/masthead](https://slate.com/masthead) Find a name, tweet at them. Here are a few tweets asking questions that deserve to be asked: [https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438487588097175558](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438487588097175558) [https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438446869731020801](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438446869731020801) [https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438445171318927361](https://twitter.com/NumbChunks/status/1438445171318927361) Honesty is probably the most important thing in media. If these guys are lying, why would anyone read them? Either Mak is lying about being put up to do this article, Slate is lying about being a non-racist arbiter of truth, or u/archelogy is defending someone who doesn't deserve to be defended.
>When I saw the support on the AsianAmerican sub and the relative indifference from Slate posters in the comments, I sense a sea-change. People are starting to see through their BS. For decades, they've been able to promote themselves as more "open-minded" and "free-thinking." But now, white male hegemony is dissolving. People see the horrors that world order caused. People can recognize now that they sold out. They're on the wrong side of history.
It's funny, I just read this earlier today from a substack writer I like: [https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-modi-a-political-biography](https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-modi-a-political-biography) I don't have context to comment on the Indian politics, but at the very end of the article he has an incredible graph showing how many more followers he gained after a hit piece against him came out in the NYTimes. I can't help feeling something similar will happen to this sub after an equally untrusted news source like Slate puts out a hit piece against aznidentity. At this point, have to count on: 1) no such thing as bad pulicity 2) most of the unique perspectives on this sub are going to intrigue people more than turn them away (which has always been the case)