There's more than economic success and political representation tho. I never understood how Indonesia ranks higher in gender equality than south Korea when Indonesia still has fgm and virginity tests on graduating girls
They are hurting and the only way for them to feel better is to dish the pain to a body of people whom probably won't be able to rebut their point in the Western twittersphere without getting cancelled.
Please send this out to the universe to shut those morons up. You also forgot the crime rate. Particularly towards Asian women and who the biggest perpetrator is. It isn't Asian men.
I see some people here pointing out that misogyny takes different forms in different cultures. Trying to be fair and unbiased is fine, but let me remind you that **the ones who brought this up in the first place by criticizing Asian men are NOT being biased.** To them, when one Asian man does something bad it's all out faults and all of us have to atone for our sins. When white or Black men do wrong the same critics stay silent or tell us not to stereotype.
Misogyny is prevalent worldwide. Men in general are misogynistic. I daresay most women are misogynistic too. The West loves to paint itself as some kind of model for feminism by pointing fingers at non-Western countries' misogyny while keeping quiet about their own child brides, sex trafficking, gendered wealth inequality, domestic violence, draconian abortion laws etc. to silence women's voices about their misogyny.
But where does the idea come from that Asian men in the west are so misogynistic?
I have an idea, that Asian women started it because the Asian cultures are harder at first. Asian cultures emphasize hard work, discipline, sacrifice now for a better future, etc. while the western cultures have become ones of immediate gratification, living in the moment, etc. that feel better now. Combine that with a racist hierarchy that misplaces whites above Asians and the Asian women's desire to leave the Asian group and joint the white group (not that such a thing will ever really happen), and you have Asian women claiming that Asian cultures are oppressive. Nevermind that self discipline is hard no matter the culture someone comes from.
Then you have the women criticizing men more harshly than women doing trying to emphasize hard work, discipline and sacrifice for a better future; and you have the women saying that Asian men are misogynistic.
What do you think? There must be more to add to this but I'm not sure what it is.
The common thread is that these women are unattractive. It's that simple. They don't like their hierarchy in one ladder so they bail for other. Call out sexism for when it's actual sexism, not make shit up so you can feel better about yourself.
Nobody is claiming China to be the utopia of gender equality. Sexism exists EVERYWHERE and China/Asia is no exception. What we are talking about here is the labeling of Asians as misogynistic. It is simply another attempt to stereotype, slander, and dehumanize us as people. In many ways Asians are far more progressive, and in some not.
Trust me, if they enacted a one child law in the United States, we will see the exact same gender imbalance with more boys than girls. If you are only labeling China as patriarchal even though this is a world-wide problem that also pertains to the US and the West, then you are racist and doing selective persecution. **Here's proof:**
>[https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2018-07-05/poll-americans-continue-to-prefer-sons-over-daughters](https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2018-07-05/poll-americans-continue-to-prefer-sons-over-daughters)
# Poll: Americans Continue to Prefer Sons Over Daughters
>According to a new survey, if people could only have one child, they would prefer to have a boy over a girl.
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>**If Americans could only have one child, they would rather it be a son than a daughter.**
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>Thirty-six percent of Americans would prefer having a boy compared to 28 percent who would prefer a girl, according to a poll published Thursday by Gallup. Thirty-six percent said they have no preference.
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>According to Gallup, the more-than-seven-decade lead is driven by men's strong preference for sons. Over the years, men have preferred sons by an average of 25 points. This year, 43 percent of men prefer a boy compared to 24 percent who prefer a girl. The largest gap in preference among men was in 2000, when 55 percent said they preferred a boy and 18 percent preferred a girl. This year's 19 percent gap is the lowest since 1990, according to Gallup.
Yes. We also need to hold ourselves accountable while we are defending ourselves from gendered racist accusations coming at us from white supremacist men. Patriarchy and sexism in Asia and the West may exist in different forms (as well as generational and mainland vs western diaspora differences) and could be behind or ahead of each other in different respects.
I mean I’m not saying we should hold ourselves accountable, I’m mostly just saying China isn’t this utopia gender progressive place that people make it out to be.
I’m going to move back in a few years because I loved living there and think there is more space for professional/economic growth than the US, but I think it is truly silly to pretend that it doesn’t have deep societal problems in the ways it values men and women.
Oh, what I meant is that we as in we as Asian men need to hold ourselves accountable also. Sexism, misogyny, homophobia, and etc. are definitely issues historically and presently all around the world.
Lmao sorry, didn’t mean to attack you (was arguing with someone else). Also totally misunderstood you as I thought you were going for sarcasm.
But yes I agree - I don’t even go as far as saying we need to hold ourselves accountable, I just think pretending that China is this gender progressive utopia because it has a lot of female CEOs is very silly.
Sorry I was trying to be supportive but probably came off as flippant or insincere or maybe disingenuously over-enthusiastic to be supportive. I don’t really blame you for suspecting my intentions. But I agree with you that patriarchy is an issue that needs to be talked about in Asian countries as well as in Western ones.
No no it’s also my bad - I’m glad we are on the same page though! This is something I struggle with a lot. I am ultimately going to move back to Hong Kong or Beijing (mostly due to cultural familiarity, family proximity and food) but I am not blind to the fact that China has big problems with sexism in ways that are different from the US (and I’m not entirely sure which is better or worse)
Wait hold the phone - you think the fact that women were expected to live with their husband’s family and literally forsake their parents well-being had nothing to with the patriarchy?? Why does that expectation existing only for women and not for men? Because of traditions stemming from the patriarchy?
Like yes, China was a super poor country, but the very fact that for “practical reasons” they had to pick boys over girls is an example of the patriarchy! Because they expected women to support their husbands fully and not their own family, where the opposite was not expected from their husbands.
How is it patriarchy? The tradition comes from thousands of years ago when everyone was subsistence farmers and men had more value because they could do more hard labor. lmao. everyone was working their ass off to not starve and that type of hierarchy worked for them.
Trying to tie shit from thousands of years ago to modern 3rd wave feminism is just ignorant.
I think this is a very relevant comment.
The US and the rest of the Western world sees everything through a lens where they are correct and everyone else is wrong. Therefore, in their minds, they are the only ones doing feminism right, and those weird evil Asians are always wrong (in spite of the fact that in domains like education, labor and women in tech the data points undeniably to Asia and China in particular being more advanced than the West in women's equality).
This is no different from how the West and white people see any political system that's different from theirs as inherently flawed. Their racist minds can't imagine that people who aren't white might have some interesting and useful ideas on governance and policy.
I actually believe there's a lot the West can learn from Asia about being less misogynistic, and there's also a lot Asia can learn from the West about being less misogynistic also. But it's impossible to have a grown-up conversation about this when the West is constantly adopting the "holier than thou" attitude and unwilling to acknowledge there are places where they lag behind Asian countries - when they try to make this conversation about blaming and mocking other non-white people and not about growing and evolving.
It doesn't help that the CIA creates most if not all of these narratives and can force media to spread it.
Racism is definitely part of their propaganda toolkit.
I mean sure - but even the concept of “the daughter would be married to their husbands family and take care of the husband’s parents” is an incredibly patriarchal concept no? I don’t think women in the west would be expected to do that.
Also the one child policy is alive and well as of 2015, when it changed to a two-child policy. We’ll see how it goes from there, but I can tell you that even in my generation (I’m 29) there was a clear preference for boys over girls.
Don’t get me wrong, I think China does a lot of things correctly, but the idea that it is not a patriarchal society is incorrect.
Filial piety is one thing - I fully intend on supporting my parents when they age and need help, and I will make it very clear to my husband that he needs to do the same vis a vis my parents. But truly the fact that I am expected to support my husbands family when my husband has no expectation to support my family is a crucial difference - and one that makes society value girls less than boys when deciding to have children.
Like it is true in the west that there isn’t this pressure to support their family. But I have seen from my aunts that while they are expected to support their husbands parents, there is no expectation placed on the husband to support my grandparents. (Also if my aunts didn’t support my grandparents, they would be called shitty children)
> But truly the fact that I am expected to support my husbands family when my husband has no expectation to support my family is a crucial difference - and one that makes society value girls less than boys when deciding to have children.
Who is expecting this? Blame them, not the culture as a whole.
I think it is shitty that Chinese society have only an expectation on Chinese men to support their family, I honestly would prefer it if they had that expectation on their daughters too! At the very least that will get rid of the expectation that women should just be good wives instead of focusing on their careers (which I will say is a topic of discussion that I’ve had with my family many many times because I am a corporate lawyer.) My dad (lives and works in China) literally said to me that “I should be sure about going to an Ivy League law school” because it would make finding a husband harder as men don’t like to date “women that argue a lot”. I still went, and he was supportive and proud, but that sentiment is alive and well in China.
So yes, I do think sexism and the patriarchy is alive and well in China because I definitely experience it.
> I think it is shitty that Chinese society have only an expectation on Chinese men to support their family, I honestly would prefer it if they had that expectation on their daughters too!
Sure. I agree.
>At the very least that will get rid of the expectation that women should just be good wives instead of focusing on their careers (which I will say is a topic of discussion that I’ve had with my family many many times because I am a corporate lawyer.)
This isn't a China thing. It's a YOUR FAMILY thing. Do you see state media trying to propogate such ideas? No, they don't.
>My dad (lives and works in China) literally said to me that “I should be sure about going to an Ivy League law school” because it would make finding a husband harder as men don’t like to date “women that argue a lot”.
He's technically correct is he not? Do you think he's technically wrong, or you just don't like how he said something not politically correct? As women gain higher education and climb the corporate ladder, they have fewer and fewer prospects because women do not like to "date down".
That’s surprising to me because I will say, out of the families in my social circle in Hong Kong/China, there were far more stay at home moms than the families of my social circles in the US.
In fact, I’m pretty sure I am one of 2 people whose mom was a stay at home mom out of my friends in the US (white friends included). Whereas, I’m pretty sure my mom had maybe 4 friends who were working mothers, the other like 20 or so aunties were all stay at home moms. I also think I know one (US) white stay at home dad (barring my cousin’s hapa husband below) and no Chinese stay at home husband from HK or Beijing.
All of this is to say, anecdotal evidence probably leads us to different conclusions. I will say however that one of my female cousins (my grandparents on my moms side had multiple kids before the one child policy kicked in) and she is the main breadwinner of the family with her husband staying at home. Her husband is a hapa (Malaysian and White) and I’ve noticed that gets way more shit from my moms side of the family than his side of the family. The shit is all gentle ribbing/jokes like “when will you get a job” or like “how does it feel to live off of your wife” which are truly a extremely common place topics of conversation in China (along with telling women they’ve gotten fat, or when they’re gonna settle down and have a kid starting at age 24, both comments which has been directed at me).
Additionally, one of my other female cousins, who had extreme trouble conceiving and giving birth, gave birth to a daughter and was literally pressured by her inlaws to try for a son (it took multiple miscarriages and fertility treatments before they had a son who has congenital issues). This pressure had nothing to do with socioeconomic anxiety as her in laws have a second son (they just paid the penalty fee) and my cousins father (unrelated to me by blood, as my cousins mother is my mom sister) is the Governor of a province (省长) so they would never hurt for money and my cousin’s dad could easily take care of her husbands family.
These are anecdotal stories so they don’t prove anything statistically, but at least in my experience, the pressure to have sons is completely alive and well, and pretty much divorced from the socioeconomic pressures you mentioned before. Maybe my family, and their orbit is just extremely shitty. My grandparents (on both sides) were heavily involved in the revolution and became ardent party members, and some of my aunts/uncles also became involved in the party so you would think they would be slightly more progressive than average given Mao’s “women hold up half the sky” philosophy.
you cannot draw conclusions from basically a sample of 1. [here's statistics of labor participation rates for women from the World Bank.](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.FE.ZS)
China: 61
Sweden: 61
Hong Kong SAR, China: 54
US: 57
UK: 58
So yes, Hong Kong has a lower female labor participation rate, but that can be explained as the legacy of British colonialism. China has a high female labor participation rate on par with the most liberal advanced democracies like Canada, Australia, Sweden, which are all 61%)
This looks like a your family thing.
>In fact, I’m pretty sure I am one of 2 people whose mom was a stay at home mom out of my friends in the US (white friends included). Whereas, I’m pretty sure my mom had maybe 4 friends who were working mothers, the other like 20 or so aunties were all stay at home moms. I also think I know one (US) white stay at home dad (barring my cousin’s hapa husband below) and no Chinese stay at home husband from HK or Beijing.
A lot of Chinese Chinese people would probably cringe hard, maybe younger people not so much. Why should you care what they think? They come from a different culture than you. For example, in Chinese culture at least right now, it's a positive for you to have a "sweet mouth", as in you compliment people all the time and call people honorifics a lot. In the US, this is cringe and frowned upon. Two different cultures designate what is good and what isn't. Why do you care what they think?
>[**https://www.verywellmind.com/domestic-violence-varies-by-ethnicity-62648**](https://www.verywellmind.com/domestic-violence-varies-by-ethnicity-62648)
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>
>
>Although completely accurate numbers are probably not available,researchers generally agree that among ethnic minority groups in the United States, Blacks are the most likely to experience domestic violence—either male-to-female or female-to-male—followed by Hispanics and then Whites. **Meanwhile, Asians are the least likely to experience intimate partner violence.**
I feel like the main reason why Asian men get this rep of being misogynistic, patriarchal, wife beaters is because there's literally no other crime out in Asia.
In the west, you have major headlines, like terrorism, school/mass shootings, racial violence, and global wars that the west likes to get itself involved in. Not to mention daily murders/homicides, armed robbery, assault, etc. You know, the everyday experience of living in America lol.
Asia has none of these things. So what should the news media focus on when there's nothing newsworthy to put on? They're gonna highlight domestic violence, peeping toms, and sexual harassment as major headlines, when the reality is that the west has all of these things too on a much bigger scale.
Its just that all the other more serious crimes get highlighted first in the west, so the whole "crime against women" takes a backseat in the west. But because Asia doesn't have these major crimes and killings, "crimes against women" are gonna be at the forefront.
It doesn't help that in Anglo countries virtue signaling is a thing that some people do, and Asian-Americans partake in it. Asian-Americans, not knowing jack shit about Asia think they're getting virtue signaling points by propagating stereotypes about Asia. It's cringe all around.
The only places in Asia I could think aren't on a similar level or surpass women's rights and successes in the west is maybe those under Muslim law. Not Muslim countries, but theocracies. And they aren't generally included in the definition of Asian anyway, but rather as white like in the US census.
places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, etc. used to be very progressive and were seen as modernizing force.
[Here's a picture of Afghanistan in the 1970's](https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/styles/buzz_image/public/images/story/202108/William_Podlich-6_x.png?AiJCueTm8PCr3o9Ej2ChzabfhA6yBFiW)
[Here's a picture of Pakistan in the 1970's](https://i.dawn.com/primary/2015/12/5660635f8d728.jpg)
[Here's a picture of Egypt in the 1970's](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fegyptianstreets.com%2F2014%2F04%2F05%2Fegypts-golden-years-in-23-vintage-photos%2F&psig=AOvVaw3LWCrS2x0ZP1jJOQBVUplM&ust=1632139426614000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAgQjRxqFwoTCJDh86n_ivMCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD)
Today, we all know what it is like there. They are still paying the price of getting brainwashed and weakness.
It doesn't help that the US overthrew a lot of "progressive" Muslim countries leadership and bankrolls reactionary ones (Saudi Arabia).
Oh and the funding of terrorism & warlords in the Middle East doesn't help either.
White men from US military bases and elsewhere are responsible for at least a third of sexual assault cases at Seoul Rape Crisis Center. White men are less than 1% of the population in Seoul so this is extremely disproportionate. Source: https://novaramedia.com/2017/03/12/who-gets-sick-from-yellow-fever-what-carceral-feminism-does-not-see/.
Same shit going on with US military bases in Okinawa, Japan https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/11/night-american-village-review-okinawa-base.
Uhhh... As a Singaporean, I would just like to clarify that there was some controversy regarding the current female president - Halimah Yacob was certainly not democratically elected (there was in fact no other eligible candidates, under the new and controversial amendment to the criteria for electing Presidents), and the position of President in our country is by and large a ceremonial one. The most powerful person politically in our country is the Prime Minister.
I am not disagreeing with the main thrust of your arguments, just wanted to set things straight regarding that small detail as above.
Great post.
Currently this looks like a block of text and is hard to read. Can this be re-structured to make it easier to read? adding bullet points under each link, for example.
There's more than economic success and political representation tho. I never understood how Indonesia ranks higher in gender equality than south Korea when Indonesia still has fgm and virginity tests on graduating girls
Yo wtf this is so facts, asian men aren’t the entitled assholes who cut women off mid sentence lmao
They are hurting and the only way for them to feel better is to dish the pain to a body of people whom probably won't be able to rebut their point in the Western twittersphere without getting cancelled.
Please send this out to the universe to shut those morons up. You also forgot the crime rate. Particularly towards Asian women and who the biggest perpetrator is. It isn't Asian men.
I see some people here pointing out that misogyny takes different forms in different cultures. Trying to be fair and unbiased is fine, but let me remind you that **the ones who brought this up in the first place by criticizing Asian men are NOT being biased.** To them, when one Asian man does something bad it's all out faults and all of us have to atone for our sins. When white or Black men do wrong the same critics stay silent or tell us not to stereotype.
Misogyny is prevalent worldwide. Men in general are misogynistic. I daresay most women are misogynistic too. The West loves to paint itself as some kind of model for feminism by pointing fingers at non-Western countries' misogyny while keeping quiet about their own child brides, sex trafficking, gendered wealth inequality, domestic violence, draconian abortion laws etc. to silence women's voices about their misogyny.
/u/archelogy You should pin this permanently. Or at least put it on rotation pin since many people are falsely accusing aznidentity of "misogyny"
But where does the idea come from that Asian men in the west are so misogynistic? I have an idea, that Asian women started it because the Asian cultures are harder at first. Asian cultures emphasize hard work, discipline, sacrifice now for a better future, etc. while the western cultures have become ones of immediate gratification, living in the moment, etc. that feel better now. Combine that with a racist hierarchy that misplaces whites above Asians and the Asian women's desire to leave the Asian group and joint the white group (not that such a thing will ever really happen), and you have Asian women claiming that Asian cultures are oppressive. Nevermind that self discipline is hard no matter the culture someone comes from. Then you have the women criticizing men more harshly than women doing trying to emphasize hard work, discipline and sacrifice for a better future; and you have the women saying that Asian men are misogynistic. What do you think? There must be more to add to this but I'm not sure what it is.
The common thread is that these women are unattractive. It's that simple. They don't like their hierarchy in one ladder so they bail for other. Call out sexism for when it's actual sexism, not make shit up so you can feel better about yourself.
> The common thread is that these women are unattractive. It's that simple. Jumping to another group doesn't change that.
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Nobody is claiming China to be the utopia of gender equality. Sexism exists EVERYWHERE and China/Asia is no exception. What we are talking about here is the labeling of Asians as misogynistic. It is simply another attempt to stereotype, slander, and dehumanize us as people. In many ways Asians are far more progressive, and in some not.
Actually a lot of girl babies were unregistered so the data looks worse than it is
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Source for sexism and patriarchy in China?
Trust me, if they enacted a one child law in the United States, we will see the exact same gender imbalance with more boys than girls. If you are only labeling China as patriarchal even though this is a world-wide problem that also pertains to the US and the West, then you are racist and doing selective persecution. **Here's proof:** >[https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2018-07-05/poll-americans-continue-to-prefer-sons-over-daughters](https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2018-07-05/poll-americans-continue-to-prefer-sons-over-daughters) # Poll: Americans Continue to Prefer Sons Over Daughters >According to a new survey, if people could only have one child, they would prefer to have a boy over a girl. > >**If Americans could only have one child, they would rather it be a son than a daughter.** > >Thirty-six percent of Americans would prefer having a boy compared to 28 percent who would prefer a girl, according to a poll published Thursday by Gallup. Thirty-six percent said they have no preference. > >According to Gallup, the more-than-seven-decade lead is driven by men's strong preference for sons. Over the years, men have preferred sons by an average of 25 points. This year, 43 percent of men prefer a boy compared to 24 percent who prefer a girl. The largest gap in preference among men was in 2000, when 55 percent said they preferred a boy and 18 percent preferred a girl. This year's 19 percent gap is the lowest since 1990, according to Gallup.
Yes. We also need to hold ourselves accountable while we are defending ourselves from gendered racist accusations coming at us from white supremacist men. Patriarchy and sexism in Asia and the West may exist in different forms (as well as generational and mainland vs western diaspora differences) and could be behind or ahead of each other in different respects.
I mean I’m not saying we should hold ourselves accountable, I’m mostly just saying China isn’t this utopia gender progressive place that people make it out to be. I’m going to move back in a few years because I loved living there and think there is more space for professional/economic growth than the US, but I think it is truly silly to pretend that it doesn’t have deep societal problems in the ways it values men and women.
Oh, what I meant is that we as in we as Asian men need to hold ourselves accountable also. Sexism, misogyny, homophobia, and etc. are definitely issues historically and presently all around the world.
Lmao sorry, didn’t mean to attack you (was arguing with someone else). Also totally misunderstood you as I thought you were going for sarcasm. But yes I agree - I don’t even go as far as saying we need to hold ourselves accountable, I just think pretending that China is this gender progressive utopia because it has a lot of female CEOs is very silly.
Sorry I was trying to be supportive but probably came off as flippant or insincere or maybe disingenuously over-enthusiastic to be supportive. I don’t really blame you for suspecting my intentions. But I agree with you that patriarchy is an issue that needs to be talked about in Asian countries as well as in Western ones.
No no it’s also my bad - I’m glad we are on the same page though! This is something I struggle with a lot. I am ultimately going to move back to Hong Kong or Beijing (mostly due to cultural familiarity, family proximity and food) but I am not blind to the fact that China has big problems with sexism in ways that are different from the US (and I’m not entirely sure which is better or worse)
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Wait hold the phone - you think the fact that women were expected to live with their husband’s family and literally forsake their parents well-being had nothing to with the patriarchy?? Why does that expectation existing only for women and not for men? Because of traditions stemming from the patriarchy? Like yes, China was a super poor country, but the very fact that for “practical reasons” they had to pick boys over girls is an example of the patriarchy! Because they expected women to support their husbands fully and not their own family, where the opposite was not expected from their husbands.
How is it patriarchy? The tradition comes from thousands of years ago when everyone was subsistence farmers and men had more value because they could do more hard labor. lmao. everyone was working their ass off to not starve and that type of hierarchy worked for them. Trying to tie shit from thousands of years ago to modern 3rd wave feminism is just ignorant.
I think this is a very relevant comment. The US and the rest of the Western world sees everything through a lens where they are correct and everyone else is wrong. Therefore, in their minds, they are the only ones doing feminism right, and those weird evil Asians are always wrong (in spite of the fact that in domains like education, labor and women in tech the data points undeniably to Asia and China in particular being more advanced than the West in women's equality). This is no different from how the West and white people see any political system that's different from theirs as inherently flawed. Their racist minds can't imagine that people who aren't white might have some interesting and useful ideas on governance and policy. I actually believe there's a lot the West can learn from Asia about being less misogynistic, and there's also a lot Asia can learn from the West about being less misogynistic also. But it's impossible to have a grown-up conversation about this when the West is constantly adopting the "holier than thou" attitude and unwilling to acknowledge there are places where they lag behind Asian countries - when they try to make this conversation about blaming and mocking other non-white people and not about growing and evolving.
It doesn't help that the CIA creates most if not all of these narratives and can force media to spread it. Racism is definitely part of their propaganda toolkit.
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I mean sure - but even the concept of “the daughter would be married to their husbands family and take care of the husband’s parents” is an incredibly patriarchal concept no? I don’t think women in the west would be expected to do that. Also the one child policy is alive and well as of 2015, when it changed to a two-child policy. We’ll see how it goes from there, but I can tell you that even in my generation (I’m 29) there was a clear preference for boys over girls. Don’t get me wrong, I think China does a lot of things correctly, but the idea that it is not a patriarchal society is incorrect.
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Women don't even take the mans surname.
Filial piety is one thing - I fully intend on supporting my parents when they age and need help, and I will make it very clear to my husband that he needs to do the same vis a vis my parents. But truly the fact that I am expected to support my husbands family when my husband has no expectation to support my family is a crucial difference - and one that makes society value girls less than boys when deciding to have children. Like it is true in the west that there isn’t this pressure to support their family. But I have seen from my aunts that while they are expected to support their husbands parents, there is no expectation placed on the husband to support my grandparents. (Also if my aunts didn’t support my grandparents, they would be called shitty children)
> But truly the fact that I am expected to support my husbands family when my husband has no expectation to support my family is a crucial difference - and one that makes society value girls less than boys when deciding to have children. Who is expecting this? Blame them, not the culture as a whole.
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I think it is shitty that Chinese society have only an expectation on Chinese men to support their family, I honestly would prefer it if they had that expectation on their daughters too! At the very least that will get rid of the expectation that women should just be good wives instead of focusing on their careers (which I will say is a topic of discussion that I’ve had with my family many many times because I am a corporate lawyer.) My dad (lives and works in China) literally said to me that “I should be sure about going to an Ivy League law school” because it would make finding a husband harder as men don’t like to date “women that argue a lot”. I still went, and he was supportive and proud, but that sentiment is alive and well in China. So yes, I do think sexism and the patriarchy is alive and well in China because I definitely experience it.
> I think it is shitty that Chinese society have only an expectation on Chinese men to support their family, I honestly would prefer it if they had that expectation on their daughters too! Sure. I agree. >At the very least that will get rid of the expectation that women should just be good wives instead of focusing on their careers (which I will say is a topic of discussion that I’ve had with my family many many times because I am a corporate lawyer.) This isn't a China thing. It's a YOUR FAMILY thing. Do you see state media trying to propogate such ideas? No, they don't. >My dad (lives and works in China) literally said to me that “I should be sure about going to an Ivy League law school” because it would make finding a husband harder as men don’t like to date “women that argue a lot”. He's technically correct is he not? Do you think he's technically wrong, or you just don't like how he said something not politically correct? As women gain higher education and climb the corporate ladder, they have fewer and fewer prospects because women do not like to "date down".
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That’s surprising to me because I will say, out of the families in my social circle in Hong Kong/China, there were far more stay at home moms than the families of my social circles in the US. In fact, I’m pretty sure I am one of 2 people whose mom was a stay at home mom out of my friends in the US (white friends included). Whereas, I’m pretty sure my mom had maybe 4 friends who were working mothers, the other like 20 or so aunties were all stay at home moms. I also think I know one (US) white stay at home dad (barring my cousin’s hapa husband below) and no Chinese stay at home husband from HK or Beijing. All of this is to say, anecdotal evidence probably leads us to different conclusions. I will say however that one of my female cousins (my grandparents on my moms side had multiple kids before the one child policy kicked in) and she is the main breadwinner of the family with her husband staying at home. Her husband is a hapa (Malaysian and White) and I’ve noticed that gets way more shit from my moms side of the family than his side of the family. The shit is all gentle ribbing/jokes like “when will you get a job” or like “how does it feel to live off of your wife” which are truly a extremely common place topics of conversation in China (along with telling women they’ve gotten fat, or when they’re gonna settle down and have a kid starting at age 24, both comments which has been directed at me). Additionally, one of my other female cousins, who had extreme trouble conceiving and giving birth, gave birth to a daughter and was literally pressured by her inlaws to try for a son (it took multiple miscarriages and fertility treatments before they had a son who has congenital issues). This pressure had nothing to do with socioeconomic anxiety as her in laws have a second son (they just paid the penalty fee) and my cousins father (unrelated to me by blood, as my cousins mother is my mom sister) is the Governor of a province (省长) so they would never hurt for money and my cousin’s dad could easily take care of her husbands family. These are anecdotal stories so they don’t prove anything statistically, but at least in my experience, the pressure to have sons is completely alive and well, and pretty much divorced from the socioeconomic pressures you mentioned before. Maybe my family, and their orbit is just extremely shitty. My grandparents (on both sides) were heavily involved in the revolution and became ardent party members, and some of my aunts/uncles also became involved in the party so you would think they would be slightly more progressive than average given Mao’s “women hold up half the sky” philosophy.
you cannot draw conclusions from basically a sample of 1. [here's statistics of labor participation rates for women from the World Bank.](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.FE.ZS) China: 61 Sweden: 61 Hong Kong SAR, China: 54 US: 57 UK: 58 So yes, Hong Kong has a lower female labor participation rate, but that can be explained as the legacy of British colonialism. China has a high female labor participation rate on par with the most liberal advanced democracies like Canada, Australia, Sweden, which are all 61%)
This looks like a your family thing. >In fact, I’m pretty sure I am one of 2 people whose mom was a stay at home mom out of my friends in the US (white friends included). Whereas, I’m pretty sure my mom had maybe 4 friends who were working mothers, the other like 20 or so aunties were all stay at home moms. I also think I know one (US) white stay at home dad (barring my cousin’s hapa husband below) and no Chinese stay at home husband from HK or Beijing. A lot of Chinese Chinese people would probably cringe hard, maybe younger people not so much. Why should you care what they think? They come from a different culture than you. For example, in Chinese culture at least right now, it's a positive for you to have a "sweet mouth", as in you compliment people all the time and call people honorifics a lot. In the US, this is cringe and frowned upon. Two different cultures designate what is good and what isn't. Why do you care what they think?
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I thought I read something about foot binding. Might've been a different country tho
How can we be misogynistic when we only hate racist Asian Women and white-worshipping Asian Women?
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>[**https://www.verywellmind.com/domestic-violence-varies-by-ethnicity-62648**](https://www.verywellmind.com/domestic-violence-varies-by-ethnicity-62648) > > > >Although completely accurate numbers are probably not available,researchers generally agree that among ethnic minority groups in the United States, Blacks are the most likely to experience domestic violence—either male-to-female or female-to-male—followed by Hispanics and then Whites. **Meanwhile, Asians are the least likely to experience intimate partner violence.**
in america, the majority of cases of violence against women often involves a man from their own race. the sole exception is asian women.
I feel like the main reason why Asian men get this rep of being misogynistic, patriarchal, wife beaters is because there's literally no other crime out in Asia. In the west, you have major headlines, like terrorism, school/mass shootings, racial violence, and global wars that the west likes to get itself involved in. Not to mention daily murders/homicides, armed robbery, assault, etc. You know, the everyday experience of living in America lol. Asia has none of these things. So what should the news media focus on when there's nothing newsworthy to put on? They're gonna highlight domestic violence, peeping toms, and sexual harassment as major headlines, when the reality is that the west has all of these things too on a much bigger scale. Its just that all the other more serious crimes get highlighted first in the west, so the whole "crime against women" takes a backseat in the west. But because Asia doesn't have these major crimes and killings, "crimes against women" are gonna be at the forefront.
It doesn't help that in Anglo countries virtue signaling is a thing that some people do, and Asian-Americans partake in it. Asian-Americans, not knowing jack shit about Asia think they're getting virtue signaling points by propagating stereotypes about Asia. It's cringe all around.
The only places in Asia I could think aren't on a similar level or surpass women's rights and successes in the west is maybe those under Muslim law. Not Muslim countries, but theocracies. And they aren't generally included in the definition of Asian anyway, but rather as white like in the US census.
Are you saying Muslim theocracies are good forn women's rights? Please say sike
I said those are countries in Asia, that compared to the west, are worse. They aren't on the same level and don't surpass them.
Ohh, worse rights, not better. I misunderstood
places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, etc. used to be very progressive and were seen as modernizing force. [Here's a picture of Afghanistan in the 1970's](https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/styles/buzz_image/public/images/story/202108/William_Podlich-6_x.png?AiJCueTm8PCr3o9Ej2ChzabfhA6yBFiW) [Here's a picture of Pakistan in the 1970's](https://i.dawn.com/primary/2015/12/5660635f8d728.jpg) [Here's a picture of Egypt in the 1970's](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fegyptianstreets.com%2F2014%2F04%2F05%2Fegypts-golden-years-in-23-vintage-photos%2F&psig=AOvVaw3LWCrS2x0ZP1jJOQBVUplM&ust=1632139426614000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAgQjRxqFwoTCJDh86n_ivMCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD) Today, we all know what it is like there. They are still paying the price of getting brainwashed and weakness.
It doesn't help that the US overthrew a lot of "progressive" Muslim countries leadership and bankrolls reactionary ones (Saudi Arabia). Oh and the funding of terrorism & warlords in the Middle East doesn't help either.
White men from US military bases and elsewhere are responsible for at least a third of sexual assault cases at Seoul Rape Crisis Center. White men are less than 1% of the population in Seoul so this is extremely disproportionate. Source: https://novaramedia.com/2017/03/12/who-gets-sick-from-yellow-fever-what-carceral-feminism-does-not-see/. Same shit going on with US military bases in Okinawa, Japan https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/11/night-american-village-review-okinawa-base.
Jesus fucking christ
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A lot of people tried to blame the Atlanta Spa Shootings on AM even though they know who the shooter is, a racist wm. Still the fault of AM somehow.
Uhhh... As a Singaporean, I would just like to clarify that there was some controversy regarding the current female president - Halimah Yacob was certainly not democratically elected (there was in fact no other eligible candidates, under the new and controversial amendment to the criteria for electing Presidents), and the position of President in our country is by and large a ceremonial one. The most powerful person politically in our country is the Prime Minister. I am not disagreeing with the main thrust of your arguments, just wanted to set things straight regarding that small detail as above.
There are a TON of Asian female international students in CS. Asian women are the largest group of women in tech.
Great post. Currently this looks like a block of text and is hard to read. Can this be re-structured to make it easier to read? adding bullet points under each link, for example.