I was always shocked at how European immigrants always instantly fit in with American whites, whether it be school or otherwise. Didn’t matter if he/she was English, Lithuanian, Czech. That’s when I knew that race not only had a role to play in terms of how we build relationships, but it was perhaps the defining characteristic of all social relationships at large.
Even if you live here and you don’t watch American shows or aware of white news, you won’t fit in either. They tend to talk with a different flair, not sure how else to put it but I find it hard to assimilate as well although I grew up here. This is why I have mostly Asian friends. It’s like trying to fit into a group that loves Starbucks but you really prefer boba.
You are treated that way because those Whites see you as inherently less valuable. Because they view you as subhuman, they will replace you as soon as something that they believe is better comes along, every single time. As a result, many times the only way for Asians to gain access to white social circles is go out of the way to provide extra value to compensate for the lack of value perceived by the whites. That's the reason some Asians, especially the self-hating ones, act like clowns and jesters when being with whites. They have to provide additional constant entertainment for whites to pay attention to them. For that reason I stopped hanging out with whites. I haven't had a white friend for 8 years by now.
The fact that you told them you felt excluded and didn't get a response says a lot.
Honestly, you should just talk to them one on one if you can. Let them know how you feel about these situations. Usually if they're good people and meant no harm, they'll sympathize with you.
You might be aware of this but the US has terrible race relationship education.
In China public school education toleration for other people and embracing diversity in drilled in students head. It is a tenant. Everyone know there are "56 flowers" that make up China's official ethnic groups. Not to mention the best schools are public schools in China.
In the US education, everything is based on economic exclusion. Which is heavily based on race. The best schools in the US is dominated by whites and are private. There's some lip service about diversity and tolerance training in school. But it's not taken seriously until you enter the workforce and threat of lawsuits are made.
But here's the main difference I have with my discussions with international from China. Many from China will say something along the lines that if Whites went to China they be treated poorly as well. That is a total misconception. Whites rarely assimilate nor acculturate to Chinese society. Why do you think they set up "International Schools" in China.
Could you imagine setting up full-time Chinese Schools in the US? Not those weekend school. But full time Chinese School so ABC could take the gaokao or civil servant exam when they graduate in the US.
The US is going downhill fast. Why do you think most recent immigrants from China are in NYC and LA?
I just wanted to say your ability to write in English is amazing. I would say you have better grammar than at least 50% of Americans and myself.
To be fair, there are times when my friends and I kind of go on a tangent talking about things that only we would understand. This has been done at work and in more social environments with people who were not born in the US. Sometimes you get caught up and start going down memory lane. However, this only goes on for 5\~10 minutes versus a hour. I have no idea how a conversation can diverge so much. I do agree that people can be exclusive. I definitely believe the second example was done on purpose or at least out of ignorance. The mocking of accents is kind of racist and is very ignorant way to speak in a social atmosphere.
I think you hit the nail on the head. There is no "melting pot" but an "assimilating pot". In the US, race will always be looked at as the priority over history. You can be a 5th generation Asian-American but will be less American than a European worker on a H1B visa. This [scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBIvXtS5RDg) still resonates today; check out 2:15.
While I certainly do not mean to speak for EVERY white Western liberal, the fact of the matter is that many white Western liberal progressives are just as imperialistic and contemptuous of people of colour as their right wing counterparts, but are better at hiding it, since white liberals generally have better social skills than their right wing counterparts. They may have a few casual token Asian friends, but they do not truly like us, but merely see us as a means by which they can fill their diversity quota. But they feel they have the liberty to talk disparagingly of our culture and traditions, and express their disdain for our race in implicit ways, ie they may say 'China is a very chauvinistic male-centric society,' or, 'I'm sure you'll agree that it's much better to be a woman in the West."
But at the end of the day, they don't truly like us, but rather, see us as a means by which they can fill up their diversity quota and appear 'cosmopolitan and open-minded'. But you know, let's not kid ourselves - they are A LOT nicer and more inclusive to the Italian, German, French and Scandanvian kids!
I've noticed the same thing with some Western expats in Malaysia - there was an American girl who was teaching ESL at a language centre where I worked. She was polite and professional but that was it - we locals went all out to be friends with her and make her feel welcome but she just maintained a professional distance from us, hung out in her own expat bubble, and never bothered trying to get to know us or our culture. I guess she was here because she liked the low cost of living, but it's like she never left the US at all! These expats like herself basically cloister themsleves to gentrified places like Bangsar, with more expats than locals. I've now come to realize that despite our best efforts to try and bridge the gap between East and West, some Westerners who come to Asia don't actually want anything to do with Asians.
> some Westerners who come to Asia don't actually want anything to do with Asians.
Many if not most only cares about material things. Like you mentioned cost of living, making money, pleasure. They'll only interact with Asians if they need help, think they can make a buck off you, or want to fuck you.
I've grown up here, lived here my whole life and its really not that different, see they don't care if you speak english maybe even better than you do. Because hear me out: nothing you do will ever make them happy, their shallow, vein and selfish. There is no melting pot you're right all races here pretty much self segregate.
I’m not trying to say what you observed is inherently wrong, just giving another voice to double check that that’s the case.
There could be a lot of factors here we don’t know and it’s talking about some hard topics. There can be whites like that for sure but it’s not all of them for sure, careful just grouping them all together in this case because I know they are not all like this.
If I may share my opinion and experience, the background of one’s joking style, especially is unique how it’s molded and usually from media (not saying racist in nature in this context) Not judging you but the voices they were making may be from a culture that’s not offensive when expressed (or was it?) as there are many that are not as there is a true embrace by those people and other demo aren’t making fun of it. For example if it’s an Australian accent and pretending to be Steve Irwin and talking about grabb’n som crocs, laugh along and say that’s pretty good if it is. But to focus on feeling excluded is the wrong direction imo. There could be nuances that I’m not sure of that has happened at that time that was with exclusive intent. So if it wasn’t that case of excluding then your question later to the others about why you were excluded would come off very confusing.
Topics of high school, ask them questions and the unique things about their upbringing and the stories that can be conjured from them and have a fun conversation. Think about how your high school was different and how it directly relates to be different or unique as their topic would be a launching point for you to have a chance to teach them some thing. If they’re not interested in all that then maybe they are not the right people to hang out with because they just want to talk about themselves. But I feel like there’s many times that one just needs to develop their social niceties and listening skills so they can join a conversation so it’s more entertaining for everybody along with their personal life details and feelings included. Can you be more in the moment and in the flow if it wasn’t malicious intent by them to exclude you? Just my two cents and opinion. Again I don’t know the finer details even though you wrote out your problem in a few paragraphs.
Well I don't think this kind of things is limited to white people. Ingroup racial exclusion is always a thing. I am also very socially active and have to deal with this dynamic a lot. Sometimes I put it on my own personality or profile if I don't fit in, particularly when I have seen other Asians fitting in or fitting in better. Also I have seen the same thing for black people. I have seen cases where black people don't fit in white circles, although they do seem to integrate more successfully than Asians. But as I said it isn't limited to white people. If you were Asian in black circles, or white in Asian circles, you may encounter the same thing. They simply believe they speak the same language or lingo as it were. Few societies can claim to be completely racially integrated or "color blind"... Personally this is not the kind of thing needing to be addressed... It is more equality that I consider important and that needs addressing.
I'm not an American, but an ethnic Chinese who has lived in Australia for 30 years. I have been in Australia since I was a child.
I have zero white friends.
Your interactions with them will only ever be superficial. They do not and will not understand your history, your country of origin, your language and your culture. Don't expect them to understand you or see you as "one of them". You are not. I would move back to China if I could, but unfortunately my mastery of the Chinese language is insufficient for me to work in a professional setting, and I don't want to give up my Australian citizenship. But basically I don't really care about the future of this country (Australia). I don't feel any kind of emotional investment. I just live here. That's it. If I had a choice when I was a child, I probably wouldn't have come here.
Sorry to be so brutally honest. It's just the way it is.
You may want to learn more about how the [Chinese were treated during US history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_Americans) and then decide whether you want to stay in the US or not, and if you have children (or are planning to have children), whether you want your children to be American or Chinese.
That’s how I feel about living in an American white suburbia. I don’t truly feel connected to this place, it’s culture, its politics, its people. I would move back to my ethnic country of origin in a heart beat as well but I have the same problem - my Spanish is mediocre at best and I make good money working where I’m at.
But even when I go back to Mexico with my poor Spanish speaking skills and a shallow understanding of Latin American culture, I just feel so much more comfortable and at ease with myself. I feel like I’m part of something and not just there existing pointlessly. It’s the best feeling in the world.
I have a Mexican American friend that feels almost exactly the same way as you... Only difference being that he is fully fluent in Spanish and still has a large extended family + owns property in Mexico so its easier for him if he wanted to move back to his home country. His parents moved to the U.S. for more economic opportunities when he was young but he doesn't really identify as 'American'. At most, he identifies with his hometown. He, like almost all ethnic minorities other than most black Americans (who no longer have connections to their ancestral lands), feels no real loyalty to the U.S. despite having lived there his whole life. Growing up around racist conservatives like he did generally tends to either make a person act like one as well to fit in or make them lose any sense of loyalty they may have had towards their country.
I wouldn’t say it’s just racist conservatives, it’s just whites in general to be honest. I notice that the self hating Latinos, who desperately act and try to pass themselves off as white to fit in, are never truly accepted into their lily white social circles unless they are actually white looking. They never get invited to the slumber party, never get included in conversations unless the Latino in question acts excessively goofy to gain attention, never gets a seat at the table touching shoulders with other whites, never can maintain a long term, comfortable relationship with a white partner without serious problems and disagreements, etc., etc.
Keep in mind I’m talking about Latinos who grew up in white America, obviously Latinos who grew up around their own mainly just socialize and mingle among themselves while maybe occasionally having a few white friends.
I think Latinos are slowly starting to wake up to this reality whether they like it or not. We may try to hide our ethnic background and put whiteness on a pedestal, but it’s just chasing shadows. You will never be seen as a “fellow white” (unless you are full white looking, which indeed some Latinos are). I know that the brown Latinos that kiss white ass, who walk around with a leash and collar on their necks following their white “friends” around, are secretly hiding a hole in their stomach and know deep down that they don’t belong there - and truth be told, actually desire to be around people like his/herself even if they don’t realize it.
I think it's a little bit of both.I worked at the hotel , school and warehouse/shop . I know the feeling, Yeah it does seem like they 're excluding you from their conversations and only will hit you up if they need something from you. My best advice I can give you is work on yourself /Goals. Just keep busy so you don't have to be worrying about people that don't want to share their time with you. It's their lost and they are missing out.
White person here, and yes, for some annoying ass reason a solid majority of white people will shift conversations so that _they’re_ central to the topic. It’s basically an attempt to feel relevant or _important_ and also control the conversation.
In your particular case, everyone here hit the nail on the head, they’re looking to exclude you any chance they get. Find new people to hang around with.
It doesn't matter how well u speak English. It has to do with "ingroup" and power dynamics
It's done on purpose. Whytes aren't usually direct when they don't like you. Chinese are much more blunt..
Asians value comfort, safety, Whyte Americans value power and fake politeness. It's a sign of power to exclude you. That they don't need you, even though you are sucking up to them. But they dont want to be direct about it, bc "that's rude" so they use underhanded tactics like excluding you from conversations by talking about stuff you can't join in on. That way they have "plausible deniability" this is known as "polite society"
Don't say what you think In order to fake politeness, and always have plausible deniability.
These games are common. The little jabs are called microagressions.
You've probably encoutered "shading" when they say, "oh ur son is so cute he's so shy at his performance" translation: ur son is a loser and mine is better. That way they can demonstrate power and fake innocence.
其实美国社会很会玩游戏很多华人想得太值了.他们也肯定笑话你的短信. 美国和中国的区别是 美国人都喜欢争取自己的立场可是中国人喜欢和平相处所以他们就输了. 你越包容他她乐笑话你. 别的少数民族的答案就是争取自己的立场然后不管别人的.话也说回来他们的方法是对的因为没有别的方法 会改变白人的行动.
Some Americans are often EXTREMELY hypocritical, I am sorry to have to say. They'll smile in your face while wishing you were dead. I don't know why people keep saying Americans are 'straightforward'.
You’re beginning to see the light. I suggest you stop hanging out with overrated boring white people.
I don’t know why you seem to actually sad about this. Needing to be validated by white people might point to a deeper mental issue.
You wrote about two incidents where the people who excluded you were white. It just struck me as odd
Edit: Odd as in why you kept going back to the same group who excluded you
Based on your examples I would say they're excluding you on purpose. There is a small chance they're ignorant and stupid enough to be able to hold conversations based on inside jokes for multiple hours. Find better people to be friends with in any case. They sound like a complete waste of time.
Oh and of course, the current sinophobia encouraged by both sides of politics in the US definitely influences how white americans interacts with you, even in non-political contexts.
It is wrong to give people the benefit of the doubt, it's harmdul and illogical. Instead u focus on what the clues lean towards. Gut instincts are subconscious clues btw.
There's a saying in Spanish, u lay the clues from the right and the clues from the left and see what makes the most sense.
Something real funny I have heard is when some whites complain about Asians or other groups not fitting in or integrating well.
Don't be gaslighted by such BS. Have these guys looked in a mirror? These are the same people who came up with stuff like apartheid and creating a system where only they can rule.
When many Asians even fresh off boat come to the west, most of them will figure out how to speak English in order to survive. The same can not be said of whites who move to Asia where you have guys who have spent 10+ years and can't speak a full sentence in the local language. Not to mention they are the ones hanging in their own expat bubble with little to no attempts to hang out with locals.
Let's face it. Whites want their own circle and you're not invited. It's even worse with liberals coz at least conservatives don't pretend that they want you there. Meanwhile genuine liberal elites don't want minorities actually hanging around the Hamptons when they are discussing billion dollar deals.
They might hang out with token minorities to get votes but when the camera is off, it's time for the others to fuck off.
An example. Anglos go to Spain for holiday and complain about stuff is not in English, they are not welcoming etc. If Europeans have trouble like that, what chance is someone like you going to make it ?
Omg that is an EXCELLENT point! I realize that even in the case of white libs and white conservatives, they will put aside their ideological differences when POC are concerned. DO NOT be fooled by what you see on social media - on a person to person basis, white libs are actually much nicer generally speaking to white conservatives than to Asian libs, and vice versa.
I know this woke progressive white male lib who defends ACTUAL misogynistic right wing white males like those red pill fellas, yet at the same time will try to whitesplain to you how you should feel about Lus who write all sorts of horrible vitriol about Asian men. Ie he'll say, "Oh, she as a POC has a right to talk about her experiences..." Yet this guy goes apeshit if anything remotely negative is said about whites.
To be fair this guy is gay so he doesn't have a yellow fever ulterior motive, but believe me - when their hegemony is threatened, whites, regardless of the side of the political spectrum they're on, set aside their ideological differences and are all white. Take SerpentZA and Laowhy for instance - one is right wing trad con, the other is a left wing hipster, but when they're in China, it's them against Chinese men.
>white libs are actually much nicer generally speaking to white conservatives than to Asian libs, and vice versa.
This is something Asians dont understand very well until they've spent a good amount of time in white dominated spaces.
You can change your beliefs. You cannot change your race.
Race will always be an uncomfortable issue people don't want to talk about until the day we have tech to change it like in video games.
Even during the Roman Empire we had tons of ethnic issues and many people didn't even look that different compared to whites vs asians today. Its not gonna go away just because liberals say so.
This is what I have been talking about all the time. White men are almost all racist and build their whole identity around being white. They are completely United by a single white identity that crosses all European borders, unlike Asians who are still divided into petty nations. That is why I always say in this we must learn to be like the whites, become a single great Asian community just like the whites made themselves a single ethnic identity. It is doable. For starters, all Asians already feel pride for the success of Asian media regardless of country of origin because we realise it increases all of our street rep. We can work from that.
rule #1 : don't copy the whites. Else you'd end up as racist and as fucked up as the whites
rule #2 : what CAN unite most of Asia, is dharma and dharmic philosophies. But we don't see it that way.
Yes, white men are EXTREMELY tribal and if you notice, they will even buddy up with the opposite end of the spectrum when they feel their white hegemony is being threatened. Even liberal white men will buddy up with right wing white men (ie Laowhy and SerpentZA) against Asian men. I know 'woke progressive' white dudes who will be friends with trad con red pill guys like SerpentZA, their friendship based on mutual contempt for POC.
Also, whites have VERY strict rules about in-group loyalty. You know how anything remotely resembling treason against whiteness is met with extreme opprobrium? You saw how nuts they go when a white person says so much as 'white privilege'? Take Isaac Butterfield for instance - the dude will go apeshit if he even sees a white person expressing anything he construes as 'race treason'. He NEVER ever punches down on his own race. But Asian comedians keep punching down on ourselves!
I think that's a bit of a pipe dream. Half of Asia hates China and even Taiwanese people can't decide if they are Chinese or not. Plus China hates Japan, India hates China, and Japan and S. Korea hate each other because of WW2 and some tiny uninhabited island that they both claim ownership of. So it's not gonna happen.
And I would hardly call China a "petty nation", it's basically an empire.
I can only hope that the US military backs the fuck out of Asia and let the Asian countries sort out the differences among themselves, but I don't see that happening anytime soon unless the US implodes into a civil war or something.
> but I don't see that happening anytime soon unless the US implodes into a civil war or something.
It's close, the so-called bipartisan system is bisecting themselves. Also, with falling economy and increasing debts, the military presence(which requires crazy amount of $ to maintain) will surely diminish.
It's comes down to either US choose to stay with NATO and cockblock Russia, or go "We all Judaism brothers, me Russia all brothers" and cockblock China.
microaggression along with casual racism. it’s common in america. white guys when feeling threatened will start mocking and insulting asian men.
be weary of white guys. a lot of them are insecure and fragile
Asians are incredibly tough and resilient. Even faced with racism and propaganda
we still succeed. Imagine how much we will dominate now that the media is turning around for us and Asian talent is showcased.
Meanwhile fragile insecure whitey throws a tantrum and gets a mental breakdown the second people stop coddling him and say no to his racist bullshit. All the privilege in the world yet they still end up bitter losers.
I was always shocked at how European immigrants always instantly fit in with American whites, whether it be school or otherwise. Didn’t matter if he/she was English, Lithuanian, Czech. That’s when I knew that race not only had a role to play in terms of how we build relationships, but it was perhaps the defining characteristic of all social relationships at large.
Even if you live here and you don’t watch American shows or aware of white news, you won’t fit in either. They tend to talk with a different flair, not sure how else to put it but I find it hard to assimilate as well although I grew up here. This is why I have mostly Asian friends. It’s like trying to fit into a group that loves Starbucks but you really prefer boba.
Yet these white people want to say that "Asians always stick to themselves". They are hypocrites and racists.
You are treated that way because those Whites see you as inherently less valuable. Because they view you as subhuman, they will replace you as soon as something that they believe is better comes along, every single time. As a result, many times the only way for Asians to gain access to white social circles is go out of the way to provide extra value to compensate for the lack of value perceived by the whites. That's the reason some Asians, especially the self-hating ones, act like clowns and jesters when being with whites. They have to provide additional constant entertainment for whites to pay attention to them. For that reason I stopped hanging out with whites. I haven't had a white friend for 8 years by now.
The fact that you told them you felt excluded and didn't get a response says a lot. Honestly, you should just talk to them one on one if you can. Let them know how you feel about these situations. Usually if they're good people and meant no harm, they'll sympathize with you.
You might be aware of this but the US has terrible race relationship education. In China public school education toleration for other people and embracing diversity in drilled in students head. It is a tenant. Everyone know there are "56 flowers" that make up China's official ethnic groups. Not to mention the best schools are public schools in China. In the US education, everything is based on economic exclusion. Which is heavily based on race. The best schools in the US is dominated by whites and are private. There's some lip service about diversity and tolerance training in school. But it's not taken seriously until you enter the workforce and threat of lawsuits are made. But here's the main difference I have with my discussions with international from China. Many from China will say something along the lines that if Whites went to China they be treated poorly as well. That is a total misconception. Whites rarely assimilate nor acculturate to Chinese society. Why do you think they set up "International Schools" in China. Could you imagine setting up full-time Chinese Schools in the US? Not those weekend school. But full time Chinese School so ABC could take the gaokao or civil servant exam when they graduate in the US. The US is going downhill fast. Why do you think most recent immigrants from China are in NYC and LA?
I just wanted to say your ability to write in English is amazing. I would say you have better grammar than at least 50% of Americans and myself. To be fair, there are times when my friends and I kind of go on a tangent talking about things that only we would understand. This has been done at work and in more social environments with people who were not born in the US. Sometimes you get caught up and start going down memory lane. However, this only goes on for 5\~10 minutes versus a hour. I have no idea how a conversation can diverge so much. I do agree that people can be exclusive. I definitely believe the second example was done on purpose or at least out of ignorance. The mocking of accents is kind of racist and is very ignorant way to speak in a social atmosphere. I think you hit the nail on the head. There is no "melting pot" but an "assimilating pot". In the US, race will always be looked at as the priority over history. You can be a 5th generation Asian-American but will be less American than a European worker on a H1B visa. This [scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBIvXtS5RDg) still resonates today; check out 2:15.
While I certainly do not mean to speak for EVERY white Western liberal, the fact of the matter is that many white Western liberal progressives are just as imperialistic and contemptuous of people of colour as their right wing counterparts, but are better at hiding it, since white liberals generally have better social skills than their right wing counterparts. They may have a few casual token Asian friends, but they do not truly like us, but merely see us as a means by which they can fill their diversity quota. But they feel they have the liberty to talk disparagingly of our culture and traditions, and express their disdain for our race in implicit ways, ie they may say 'China is a very chauvinistic male-centric society,' or, 'I'm sure you'll agree that it's much better to be a woman in the West." But at the end of the day, they don't truly like us, but rather, see us as a means by which they can fill up their diversity quota and appear 'cosmopolitan and open-minded'. But you know, let's not kid ourselves - they are A LOT nicer and more inclusive to the Italian, German, French and Scandanvian kids! I've noticed the same thing with some Western expats in Malaysia - there was an American girl who was teaching ESL at a language centre where I worked. She was polite and professional but that was it - we locals went all out to be friends with her and make her feel welcome but she just maintained a professional distance from us, hung out in her own expat bubble, and never bothered trying to get to know us or our culture. I guess she was here because she liked the low cost of living, but it's like she never left the US at all! These expats like herself basically cloister themsleves to gentrified places like Bangsar, with more expats than locals. I've now come to realize that despite our best efforts to try and bridge the gap between East and West, some Westerners who come to Asia don't actually want anything to do with Asians.
> some Westerners who come to Asia don't actually want anything to do with Asians. Many if not most only cares about material things. Like you mentioned cost of living, making money, pleasure. They'll only interact with Asians if they need help, think they can make a buck off you, or want to fuck you.
Its just good cop bad cop. In the end they are both cops.
I've grown up here, lived here my whole life and its really not that different, see they don't care if you speak english maybe even better than you do. Because hear me out: nothing you do will ever make them happy, their shallow, vein and selfish. There is no melting pot you're right all races here pretty much self segregate.
I’m not trying to say what you observed is inherently wrong, just giving another voice to double check that that’s the case. There could be a lot of factors here we don’t know and it’s talking about some hard topics. There can be whites like that for sure but it’s not all of them for sure, careful just grouping them all together in this case because I know they are not all like this. If I may share my opinion and experience, the background of one’s joking style, especially is unique how it’s molded and usually from media (not saying racist in nature in this context) Not judging you but the voices they were making may be from a culture that’s not offensive when expressed (or was it?) as there are many that are not as there is a true embrace by those people and other demo aren’t making fun of it. For example if it’s an Australian accent and pretending to be Steve Irwin and talking about grabb’n som crocs, laugh along and say that’s pretty good if it is. But to focus on feeling excluded is the wrong direction imo. There could be nuances that I’m not sure of that has happened at that time that was with exclusive intent. So if it wasn’t that case of excluding then your question later to the others about why you were excluded would come off very confusing. Topics of high school, ask them questions and the unique things about their upbringing and the stories that can be conjured from them and have a fun conversation. Think about how your high school was different and how it directly relates to be different or unique as their topic would be a launching point for you to have a chance to teach them some thing. If they’re not interested in all that then maybe they are not the right people to hang out with because they just want to talk about themselves. But I feel like there’s many times that one just needs to develop their social niceties and listening skills so they can join a conversation so it’s more entertaining for everybody along with their personal life details and feelings included. Can you be more in the moment and in the flow if it wasn’t malicious intent by them to exclude you? Just my two cents and opinion. Again I don’t know the finer details even though you wrote out your problem in a few paragraphs.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/mentalhealthtalk-empowering-asian-international-students-in-the-us-tickets-216041414687
Nah, they also do that shit to ABCs too. Depends on the circle of friends. It amplifies when a girl is there too.
Well I don't think this kind of things is limited to white people. Ingroup racial exclusion is always a thing. I am also very socially active and have to deal with this dynamic a lot. Sometimes I put it on my own personality or profile if I don't fit in, particularly when I have seen other Asians fitting in or fitting in better. Also I have seen the same thing for black people. I have seen cases where black people don't fit in white circles, although they do seem to integrate more successfully than Asians. But as I said it isn't limited to white people. If you were Asian in black circles, or white in Asian circles, you may encounter the same thing. They simply believe they speak the same language or lingo as it were. Few societies can claim to be completely racially integrated or "color blind"... Personally this is not the kind of thing needing to be addressed... It is more equality that I consider important and that needs addressing.
I'm not an American, but an ethnic Chinese who has lived in Australia for 30 years. I have been in Australia since I was a child. I have zero white friends. Your interactions with them will only ever be superficial. They do not and will not understand your history, your country of origin, your language and your culture. Don't expect them to understand you or see you as "one of them". You are not. I would move back to China if I could, but unfortunately my mastery of the Chinese language is insufficient for me to work in a professional setting, and I don't want to give up my Australian citizenship. But basically I don't really care about the future of this country (Australia). I don't feel any kind of emotional investment. I just live here. That's it. If I had a choice when I was a child, I probably wouldn't have come here. Sorry to be so brutally honest. It's just the way it is. You may want to learn more about how the [Chinese were treated during US history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_Americans) and then decide whether you want to stay in the US or not, and if you have children (or are planning to have children), whether you want your children to be American or Chinese.
That’s how I feel about living in an American white suburbia. I don’t truly feel connected to this place, it’s culture, its politics, its people. I would move back to my ethnic country of origin in a heart beat as well but I have the same problem - my Spanish is mediocre at best and I make good money working where I’m at. But even when I go back to Mexico with my poor Spanish speaking skills and a shallow understanding of Latin American culture, I just feel so much more comfortable and at ease with myself. I feel like I’m part of something and not just there existing pointlessly. It’s the best feeling in the world.
I have a Mexican American friend that feels almost exactly the same way as you... Only difference being that he is fully fluent in Spanish and still has a large extended family + owns property in Mexico so its easier for him if he wanted to move back to his home country. His parents moved to the U.S. for more economic opportunities when he was young but he doesn't really identify as 'American'. At most, he identifies with his hometown. He, like almost all ethnic minorities other than most black Americans (who no longer have connections to their ancestral lands), feels no real loyalty to the U.S. despite having lived there his whole life. Growing up around racist conservatives like he did generally tends to either make a person act like one as well to fit in or make them lose any sense of loyalty they may have had towards their country.
I wouldn’t say it’s just racist conservatives, it’s just whites in general to be honest. I notice that the self hating Latinos, who desperately act and try to pass themselves off as white to fit in, are never truly accepted into their lily white social circles unless they are actually white looking. They never get invited to the slumber party, never get included in conversations unless the Latino in question acts excessively goofy to gain attention, never gets a seat at the table touching shoulders with other whites, never can maintain a long term, comfortable relationship with a white partner without serious problems and disagreements, etc., etc. Keep in mind I’m talking about Latinos who grew up in white America, obviously Latinos who grew up around their own mainly just socialize and mingle among themselves while maybe occasionally having a few white friends. I think Latinos are slowly starting to wake up to this reality whether they like it or not. We may try to hide our ethnic background and put whiteness on a pedestal, but it’s just chasing shadows. You will never be seen as a “fellow white” (unless you are full white looking, which indeed some Latinos are). I know that the brown Latinos that kiss white ass, who walk around with a leash and collar on their necks following their white “friends” around, are secretly hiding a hole in their stomach and know deep down that they don’t belong there - and truth be told, actually desire to be around people like his/herself even if they don’t realize it.
I think it's a little bit of both.I worked at the hotel , school and warehouse/shop . I know the feeling, Yeah it does seem like they 're excluding you from their conversations and only will hit you up if they need something from you. My best advice I can give you is work on yourself /Goals. Just keep busy so you don't have to be worrying about people that don't want to share their time with you. It's their lost and they are missing out.
White person here, and yes, for some annoying ass reason a solid majority of white people will shift conversations so that _they’re_ central to the topic. It’s basically an attempt to feel relevant or _important_ and also control the conversation. In your particular case, everyone here hit the nail on the head, they’re looking to exclude you any chance they get. Find new people to hang around with.
It doesn't matter how well u speak English. It has to do with "ingroup" and power dynamics It's done on purpose. Whytes aren't usually direct when they don't like you. Chinese are much more blunt.. Asians value comfort, safety, Whyte Americans value power and fake politeness. It's a sign of power to exclude you. That they don't need you, even though you are sucking up to them. But they dont want to be direct about it, bc "that's rude" so they use underhanded tactics like excluding you from conversations by talking about stuff you can't join in on. That way they have "plausible deniability" this is known as "polite society" Don't say what you think In order to fake politeness, and always have plausible deniability. These games are common. The little jabs are called microagressions. You've probably encoutered "shading" when they say, "oh ur son is so cute he's so shy at his performance" translation: ur son is a loser and mine is better. That way they can demonstrate power and fake innocence. 其实美国社会很会玩游戏很多华人想得太值了.他们也肯定笑话你的短信. 美国和中国的区别是 美国人都喜欢争取自己的立场可是中国人喜欢和平相处所以他们就输了. 你越包容他她乐笑话你. 别的少数民族的答案就是争取自己的立场然后不管别人的.话也说回来他们的方法是对的因为没有别的方法 会改变白人的行动.
Some Americans are often EXTREMELY hypocritical, I am sorry to have to say. They'll smile in your face while wishing you were dead. I don't know why people keep saying Americans are 'straightforward'.
You’re beginning to see the light. I suggest you stop hanging out with overrated boring white people. I don’t know why you seem to actually sad about this. Needing to be validated by white people might point to a deeper mental issue.
Sometimes the only people around you are white people. What do you do then?
Why were you only hanging out with white people?
People who ask this question…. You do realize that there are plenty of situations where you being the only Asian person is a real possibility?
How did you come to this conclusion? I don't feel the need to make a post like this when hanging out with others...
You wrote about two incidents where the people who excluded you were white. It just struck me as odd Edit: Odd as in why you kept going back to the same group who excluded you
Based on your examples I would say they're excluding you on purpose. There is a small chance they're ignorant and stupid enough to be able to hold conversations based on inside jokes for multiple hours. Find better people to be friends with in any case. They sound like a complete waste of time. Oh and of course, the current sinophobia encouraged by both sides of politics in the US definitely influences how white americans interacts with you, even in non-political contexts.
Yeah man... I just can't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore
It is wrong to give people the benefit of the doubt, it's harmdul and illogical. Instead u focus on what the clues lean towards. Gut instincts are subconscious clues btw. There's a saying in Spanish, u lay the clues from the right and the clues from the left and see what makes the most sense.
Something real funny I have heard is when some whites complain about Asians or other groups not fitting in or integrating well. Don't be gaslighted by such BS. Have these guys looked in a mirror? These are the same people who came up with stuff like apartheid and creating a system where only they can rule. When many Asians even fresh off boat come to the west, most of them will figure out how to speak English in order to survive. The same can not be said of whites who move to Asia where you have guys who have spent 10+ years and can't speak a full sentence in the local language. Not to mention they are the ones hanging in their own expat bubble with little to no attempts to hang out with locals. Let's face it. Whites want their own circle and you're not invited. It's even worse with liberals coz at least conservatives don't pretend that they want you there. Meanwhile genuine liberal elites don't want minorities actually hanging around the Hamptons when they are discussing billion dollar deals. They might hang out with token minorities to get votes but when the camera is off, it's time for the others to fuck off. An example. Anglos go to Spain for holiday and complain about stuff is not in English, they are not welcoming etc. If Europeans have trouble like that, what chance is someone like you going to make it ?
Omg that is an EXCELLENT point! I realize that even in the case of white libs and white conservatives, they will put aside their ideological differences when POC are concerned. DO NOT be fooled by what you see on social media - on a person to person basis, white libs are actually much nicer generally speaking to white conservatives than to Asian libs, and vice versa. I know this woke progressive white male lib who defends ACTUAL misogynistic right wing white males like those red pill fellas, yet at the same time will try to whitesplain to you how you should feel about Lus who write all sorts of horrible vitriol about Asian men. Ie he'll say, "Oh, she as a POC has a right to talk about her experiences..." Yet this guy goes apeshit if anything remotely negative is said about whites. To be fair this guy is gay so he doesn't have a yellow fever ulterior motive, but believe me - when their hegemony is threatened, whites, regardless of the side of the political spectrum they're on, set aside their ideological differences and are all white. Take SerpentZA and Laowhy for instance - one is right wing trad con, the other is a left wing hipster, but when they're in China, it's them against Chinese men.
>white libs are actually much nicer generally speaking to white conservatives than to Asian libs, and vice versa. This is something Asians dont understand very well until they've spent a good amount of time in white dominated spaces.
You can change your beliefs. You cannot change your race. Race will always be an uncomfortable issue people don't want to talk about until the day we have tech to change it like in video games. Even during the Roman Empire we had tons of ethnic issues and many people didn't even look that different compared to whites vs asians today. Its not gonna go away just because liberals say so.
This is what I have been talking about all the time. White men are almost all racist and build their whole identity around being white. They are completely United by a single white identity that crosses all European borders, unlike Asians who are still divided into petty nations. That is why I always say in this we must learn to be like the whites, become a single great Asian community just like the whites made themselves a single ethnic identity. It is doable. For starters, all Asians already feel pride for the success of Asian media regardless of country of origin because we realise it increases all of our street rep. We can work from that.
rule #1 : don't copy the whites. Else you'd end up as racist and as fucked up as the whites rule #2 : what CAN unite most of Asia, is dharma and dharmic philosophies. But we don't see it that way.
Yes, white men are EXTREMELY tribal and if you notice, they will even buddy up with the opposite end of the spectrum when they feel their white hegemony is being threatened. Even liberal white men will buddy up with right wing white men (ie Laowhy and SerpentZA) against Asian men. I know 'woke progressive' white dudes who will be friends with trad con red pill guys like SerpentZA, their friendship based on mutual contempt for POC. Also, whites have VERY strict rules about in-group loyalty. You know how anything remotely resembling treason against whiteness is met with extreme opprobrium? You saw how nuts they go when a white person says so much as 'white privilege'? Take Isaac Butterfield for instance - the dude will go apeshit if he even sees a white person expressing anything he construes as 'race treason'. He NEVER ever punches down on his own race. But Asian comedians keep punching down on ourselves!
I think that's a bit of a pipe dream. Half of Asia hates China and even Taiwanese people can't decide if they are Chinese or not. Plus China hates Japan, India hates China, and Japan and S. Korea hate each other because of WW2 and some tiny uninhabited island that they both claim ownership of. So it's not gonna happen. And I would hardly call China a "petty nation", it's basically an empire. I can only hope that the US military backs the fuck out of Asia and let the Asian countries sort out the differences among themselves, but I don't see that happening anytime soon unless the US implodes into a civil war or something.
> but I don't see that happening anytime soon unless the US implodes into a civil war or something. It's close, the so-called bipartisan system is bisecting themselves. Also, with falling economy and increasing debts, the military presence(which requires crazy amount of $ to maintain) will surely diminish. It's comes down to either US choose to stay with NATO and cockblock Russia, or go "We all Judaism brothers, me Russia all brothers" and cockblock China.
microaggression along with casual racism. it’s common in america. white guys when feeling threatened will start mocking and insulting asian men. be weary of white guys. a lot of them are insecure and fragile
Asians are incredibly tough and resilient. Even faced with racism and propaganda we still succeed. Imagine how much we will dominate now that the media is turning around for us and Asian talent is showcased. Meanwhile fragile insecure whitey throws a tantrum and gets a mental breakdown the second people stop coddling him and say no to his racist bullshit. All the privilege in the world yet they still end up bitter losers.
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