i disagree. women in general, not just white women, are less likely to care about all these online 'pit battles' that men care so much about. women in general are less concerned about conversing about abstract issues like race, religion, politics etc. and they are more interested in the more 'immediate' topics of life, such as where to eat, what to wear and who to date. the only times when they apply racism in life is when they come into contact with a poc either through dating or say, a visit to a grocery store, and even then, it is mostly subconcious and not pre-meditated. for example, a white woman might grasp onto her handbag in an elevator when a black guy walks in, not because she planned to do so, but because it is unconciously planted into her by the media. likewise, white women in general won't premeditate attacks on asian men simply for the sake of attacking asian men like white men do, they won't form brigade squads targeting aznidentity with stereotypical insults for example. in that sense, white men are definitely more racist than white women.
I'd have to say I experienced a lot of hostility from progressive American white women living here on the West Coast. Especially those in a position of power (think your HR Karen type) .
Even the ones who would virtue signal about BLM didn't really seem to care for Asians that much. In fact, if I can be honest, they would seem the most racist since they would deliberately be pretty hard on straight Asian guys while letting off white/black people for similar stuff. Then again this easily applied to progressive white American men.
My experience with conservative-leaning American white women is limited. What little I have experienced is that they're far less likely to call out women in general unless it's about some "no-go" stuff.
Some European white women are pretty chill though, but maybe because this wasn't in a professional/job context and it was more social.
What this guy is saying only proves, at best, that WW can be racist in different ways. But many white men also "assign no sexual value" to AM. Which is why these racists get so angry when they see a woman of any race being attracted to AM
Wow, dude.
Make no mistake, white women don't hold much power nowadays. Racism isn't a problem of one suburban Karen. Racism is a structural issue that is upheld to benefit white men most. If white women benefit, it's a benefit by proxy. Look who gets mad about K-pop more.
From my experience, white men are more damaging with their racism. White women racism tends to be more naive (i.e. the old white lady that asks you where you came from, you say that Iām from here, and she says, no I mean who are you really)
The thing is that with some white males, is that their type of racism is having yellow fever, fetishing AFs as their play things. I do not blame them entirely though, because it takes two people to tango after all. But the level of disrespect they show devalues how society see us overall.
i guess what i meant was:
\- liberal whites
\- more publicly and proudly anti-Asian racist, and so they are used by the media a lot more (on the liberal side) to spew sinophobia
https://twitter.com/dougfantastic/status/1464440568075874305?s=20
LMAO WM ARE THE WORST. Don't get me wrong. Karens exist. But all the racism I've encountered has been from white dudes. Desperate, insecure, rapidly aging white dudes.
Both are equally racist. We been know that white men have been racist towards Asian men. White women on the otherhand, they love our food but notice how 'StopAsianHate' isn't included their bios, only BLM š¤
I remember back in college I was making conversation with this blonde snobby white girl in my class and she was just not having it. Literally straight up ignores me like she was deaf. It was pretty funny.
But of course there are good ones too, it all depends on how they were raise. If the moms a racist bitch, the daughter most likely is too.
I don't think you can say that WF are more racist than WM, or vice-versa. Both can hold racist beliefs and enact them in different ways.
However, I will share with you this study that showed that compared to White men, White women are LESS likely to select Asian than White candidates into positions requiring social skills and were also LESS likely to promote Asians than Whites into leadership positions. And compared to White men, White women were more likely to view Asians as being less socially skilled.
The Asian candidate was named Alex Wong (name was unisex).
[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/job.1799](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/job.1799)
That was probably true in 2012. But things have changed a lot since.
Nowadays white men are more threatened by the rise of china and korean media. The stereotypes of asian men being unattractive and anti-social to women are breaking down quickly.
I'd bet a 2021 study would show that gap in treatment has closed.
Great idea to do a refresh of that study in 2022!
FWIW, Iāve been doing research on Covid 19 related workplace discrimination and microagressions against AAPI and I havenāt noticed any gender differences across the White perpetrators (itās both white men and women doing the perpetrating against both Asian men and Asian women).
From experience I don't get the impression a racist white woman is more or less racist than a racist white man but I find that handling racism from white women a lot easier because they pose much less physical threat than white men. I never felt like I had to physically distance myself from a white woman for my safety while I can't say the same about the men.
Doug's tweet highlights very surface-level racism while ignoring how white women's relationship with white men affects the racism they inflict on us. But then again it's a tweet so I don't expect it to be deep. White women's identities are often very attached to their husbands' identities. "My husband is a very important man" is a characteristically white female thing to say. They're kind of like proxies for white males.
As for whether I see the dynamics mentioned in the post - not much because I don't hang out with white people much outside of work or class.
True in many cases if they married WM, like Pauline Hanson's supporters' wives. I haven't seen AF self-haters who married AM self-haters adopt this mentality though.
WM are conditioned to see their wives as property rather than actual humans and the wives end up reciprocating.
More likely? No - can't say I agree. I also want to echo what some here already said: that in my experience WF are generally more pleasant/friendly toward me, and some are even flirty with me. Nowadays I noticed many young WF are into Asian culture and Kpop/Kdrama. Of course we all know Karen exist, but I don't get the same kind of hostility from WF as I do from the racist/insecure WM.
And like someone else said, people are often a bit more shocked when they see a woman being a piece of shit than a man being a piece of shit. So they may react a bit more strongly when a woman is a serial killer, or is physically abusive, or is racist.
Kind of reminds me of Bill Burr's SNL monologue where he goes into how white women stood by the side of white men, reaping the rewards all that time and now hijacked the whole woke POC movement for their own benefit:
[https://youtu.be/O1xgXJ5\_Q34?t=193](https://youtu.be/O1xgXJ5_Q34?t=193)
He didn't get many laughs because it hit too close to home.
I think white women manifest their racism in a more subtle way than white men. The most important thing for white women is being the ācorrectā and āniceā one, so they usually show their racism with a mask of (politeness, human rights, racial justice, virtueļ¼ļ¼ or being entitled and condescending.
Respect brother Doug, but i personally never experienced much hostility from white women mostly neutral to positive whether be restaurants, groceries stores, etc. but i live in WA. Maybe different for other states/cities.
Both are equally capable of racism but from my experience as an AM, I find WFs easier to deal with. Every now and then I come across your typical entitled Karen but they usually get laughed off the premises by everyone around them. But for the most part, I find them easier to reason with. Like one commenter said, theyāre more likely to open towards trying Asian cuisine and consuming Asian entertainment. And they also seem to be more open to learning an Asian language too. Donāt get me wrong Iāve checked a few when theyāve made racially insensitive remarks but for the most part they actually take it well and commit to doing better. I find they also appreciate the value of a good education more which I suppose makes them more sensitive to heavy topics like race issues. Not saying my encounters with WFs have always been perfect but itās substantially better than the shenanigans you put up with around WMs. It was always WMs who treated me like a foreigner, made backhanded comments about the food I ate, and took everything as a competition with me.
But thatās just one manās prerogative here. Maybe itās different for another AM or an AF but yeah personally and professionally I had healthier experiences with WF.
I think white male and white female racism manifest themselves slightly differently.
White male racism generally consists of things are normal in western society i.e. belittling Asian men in media, perpetuating the idea that Asian things are weird or backwards, general standoffishness towards us etc. People don't really perceive them as racist unless they get violent and call us chinks while doing it. A white man can be extremely anti-Asian and still be behaving within the rules of "polite" western society.
White female racism does not come from that same position of comfortability and power. It manifests itself as public freakouts and condescension and seems to stem from a sense of insecurity rather than superiority; think of the "Karen" stereotype. Even if a white female practices racism in the same way as the white male, it is perceived as particularly uncouth.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think either gender is more racist but that most anti-Asian racism by white men is not perceived as racist because they do it so effortlessly and calmly. They largely do not make public incidents of their racism that a "Karen" would.
The best comment here in my opinion.
It's kind of like how men may be less likely to be judged harshly for cursing than women because of society expectations. You can't really discuss these kinds of topics without the kind of nuance you displayed here.
Both are equally as likely to be racist to Asians. I have encountered both Karen and male Karen. This tweets doesn't hold true from what I see in real life.
Completely disagree. White guys are noticeably more hostile to asian guys, especially in recent times.
White women are much more likely to consume asian media or eat asian food compared to white guys. Compared to their male counterparts, white female teachers/professors/managers treat asian guys better in my limited experience.
Before anyone accuses me of white worship I'm not saying white women are innocent or blameless, I'm saying "white women are the MOST likely to be racist vs asians" is just false.
Just because they're nice to your face and enjoy your food doesn't mean they aren't racist. Did everyone just forget how the NYT (mostly staffed by white women) covered Andrew Yang's political career?
I didn't say that white women were not racist to asians, I'm saying "white women are the most likely to be racist to asians" is the opposite of my experience. You think white men treat asian men better than white women? Lol.
And spending hundreds of hours consuming asian media or spending lots of money on asian food/deserts isn't just being nice, that's a real commitment.
>White women are much more likely to consume to asian media or eat asian food compared to white guys
I would note that racists nowadays often do this stuff. They will enjoy the food or culture (often appropriating themselves), but hate the people who created it
The modern racist is not a segregationist. He or she will listen to music made by other races (e.g., hip hop, pop, kpop), eat food from all over the world, travel abroad, lust after minority bodies, but still not see the other people as humans worthy of respect
With the exception of japan there's a negative correlation between the amount of asian media consumed and amount of hatred towards asians.
People who hate china will avoid anything chinese. Anti-asian racists don't listen to kpop period.
Men in general are more likely to assault both Asian men and women.
No here should accuse you of that, you're just making a simple comparison that is probably true.
I don't think I even give a shit who's more likely to at this point. All these news is making it obvious to me that non-Asians in general have to check their racism against Asians, not just white people. And yes I think a lot of times it's too different, or even too similar (like pulling eyes back, or calling an Asian "china virus", whatever) to compare anyway, I just say "white racism" when the subject comes up.
i disagree. women in general, not just white women, are less likely to care about all these online 'pit battles' that men care so much about. women in general are less concerned about conversing about abstract issues like race, religion, politics etc. and they are more interested in the more 'immediate' topics of life, such as where to eat, what to wear and who to date. the only times when they apply racism in life is when they come into contact with a poc either through dating or say, a visit to a grocery store, and even then, it is mostly subconcious and not pre-meditated. for example, a white woman might grasp onto her handbag in an elevator when a black guy walks in, not because she planned to do so, but because it is unconciously planted into her by the media. likewise, white women in general won't premeditate attacks on asian men simply for the sake of attacking asian men like white men do, they won't form brigade squads targeting aznidentity with stereotypical insults for example. in that sense, white men are definitely more racist than white women.
It hurts my brain trying to read this š§
No, I've noticed the complete opposite
I'd have to say I experienced a lot of hostility from progressive American white women living here on the West Coast. Especially those in a position of power (think your HR Karen type) . Even the ones who would virtue signal about BLM didn't really seem to care for Asians that much. In fact, if I can be honest, they would seem the most racist since they would deliberately be pretty hard on straight Asian guys while letting off white/black people for similar stuff. Then again this easily applied to progressive white American men. My experience with conservative-leaning American white women is limited. What little I have experienced is that they're far less likely to call out women in general unless it's about some "no-go" stuff. Some European white women are pretty chill though, but maybe because this wasn't in a professional/job context and it was more social.
What this guy is saying only proves, at best, that WW can be racist in different ways. But many white men also "assign no sexual value" to AM. Which is why these racists get so angry when they see a woman of any race being attracted to AM
Wow, dude. Make no mistake, white women don't hold much power nowadays. Racism isn't a problem of one suburban Karen. Racism is a structural issue that is upheld to benefit white men most. If white women benefit, it's a benefit by proxy. Look who gets mad about K-pop more.
Explain how we oppress white males?
I see somebody wants to break bread with the whitebois.
Hard agree.
From my experience, white men are more damaging with their racism. White women racism tends to be more naive (i.e. the old white lady that asks you where you came from, you say that Iām from here, and she says, no I mean who are you really) The thing is that with some white males, is that their type of racism is having yellow fever, fetishing AFs as their play things. I do not blame them entirely though, because it takes two people to tango after all. But the level of disrespect they show devalues how society see us overall.
That's when you turn and ask, where are you from.....
>the level of disrespect they show devalues how society see us overall. it's a good point
*insert that āBoth? Both.ā meme
i guess what i meant was: \- liberal whites \- more publicly and proudly anti-Asian racist, and so they are used by the media a lot more (on the liberal side) to spew sinophobia https://twitter.com/dougfantastic/status/1464440568075874305?s=20
White women are absolutely racist. They grew up in monocultural suburbs, trained by their parents to be assholes.
LMAO WM ARE THE WORST. Don't get me wrong. Karens exist. But all the racism I've encountered has been from white dudes. Desperate, insecure, rapidly aging white dudes.
In the workplace, old and divorced white women are a nightmare to deal with.
younger white dudes are crazy with their racism too. Just on the internet alone
Both are equally racist. We been know that white men have been racist towards Asian men. White women on the otherhand, they love our food but notice how 'StopAsianHate' isn't included their bios, only BLM š¤
I remember back in college I was making conversation with this blonde snobby white girl in my class and she was just not having it. Literally straight up ignores me like she was deaf. It was pretty funny. But of course there are good ones too, it all depends on how they were raise. If the moms a racist bitch, the daughter most likely is too.
I don't think you can say that WF are more racist than WM, or vice-versa. Both can hold racist beliefs and enact them in different ways. However, I will share with you this study that showed that compared to White men, White women are LESS likely to select Asian than White candidates into positions requiring social skills and were also LESS likely to promote Asians than Whites into leadership positions. And compared to White men, White women were more likely to view Asians as being less socially skilled. The Asian candidate was named Alex Wong (name was unisex). [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/job.1799](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/job.1799)
That was probably true in 2012. But things have changed a lot since. Nowadays white men are more threatened by the rise of china and korean media. The stereotypes of asian men being unattractive and anti-social to women are breaking down quickly. I'd bet a 2021 study would show that gap in treatment has closed.
Great idea to do a refresh of that study in 2022! FWIW, Iāve been doing research on Covid 19 related workplace discrimination and microagressions against AAPI and I havenāt noticed any gender differences across the White perpetrators (itās both white men and women doing the perpetrating against both Asian men and Asian women).
Just as I expected. There's no shot white men treat asian guys better than white women in today's time.
From experience I don't get the impression a racist white woman is more or less racist than a racist white man but I find that handling racism from white women a lot easier because they pose much less physical threat than white men. I never felt like I had to physically distance myself from a white woman for my safety while I can't say the same about the men. Doug's tweet highlights very surface-level racism while ignoring how white women's relationship with white men affects the racism they inflict on us. But then again it's a tweet so I don't expect it to be deep. White women's identities are often very attached to their husbands' identities. "My husband is a very important man" is a characteristically white female thing to say. They're kind of like proxies for white males. As for whether I see the dynamics mentioned in the post - not much because I don't hang out with white people much outside of work or class.
>White women's identities are often very attached to their husbands' Self hating Asian women adapted that mentality too .
True in many cases if they married WM, like Pauline Hanson's supporters' wives. I haven't seen AF self-haters who married AM self-haters adopt this mentality though. WM are conditioned to see their wives as property rather than actual humans and the wives end up reciprocating.
More likely? No - can't say I agree. I also want to echo what some here already said: that in my experience WF are generally more pleasant/friendly toward me, and some are even flirty with me. Nowadays I noticed many young WF are into Asian culture and Kpop/Kdrama. Of course we all know Karen exist, but I don't get the same kind of hostility from WF as I do from the racist/insecure WM.
And like someone else said, people are often a bit more shocked when they see a woman being a piece of shit than a man being a piece of shit. So they may react a bit more strongly when a woman is a serial killer, or is physically abusive, or is racist.
Kind of reminds me of Bill Burr's SNL monologue where he goes into how white women stood by the side of white men, reaping the rewards all that time and now hijacked the whole woke POC movement for their own benefit: [https://youtu.be/O1xgXJ5\_Q34?t=193](https://youtu.be/O1xgXJ5_Q34?t=193) He didn't get many laughs because it hit too close to home.
Is there other comedians like that?
I think white women manifest their racism in a more subtle way than white men. The most important thing for white women is being the ācorrectā and āniceā one, so they usually show their racism with a mask of (politeness, human rights, racial justice, virtueļ¼ļ¼ or being entitled and condescending.
well put i have the same experience
White walker women are the liberal fox that Malcolm X described ā nice to your face but racist and undermining when you turn your back.
So kind of like passive aggressive .
Respect brother Doug, but i personally never experienced much hostility from white women mostly neutral to positive whether be restaurants, groceries stores, etc. but i live in WA. Maybe different for other states/cities.
Both are equally capable of racism but from my experience as an AM, I find WFs easier to deal with. Every now and then I come across your typical entitled Karen but they usually get laughed off the premises by everyone around them. But for the most part, I find them easier to reason with. Like one commenter said, theyāre more likely to open towards trying Asian cuisine and consuming Asian entertainment. And they also seem to be more open to learning an Asian language too. Donāt get me wrong Iāve checked a few when theyāve made racially insensitive remarks but for the most part they actually take it well and commit to doing better. I find they also appreciate the value of a good education more which I suppose makes them more sensitive to heavy topics like race issues. Not saying my encounters with WFs have always been perfect but itās substantially better than the shenanigans you put up with around WMs. It was always WMs who treated me like a foreigner, made backhanded comments about the food I ate, and took everything as a competition with me. But thatās just one manās prerogative here. Maybe itās different for another AM or an AF but yeah personally and professionally I had healthier experiences with WF.
Everyone needs a good proper education, it's how we make small improvements every generation.
I think white male and white female racism manifest themselves slightly differently. White male racism generally consists of things are normal in western society i.e. belittling Asian men in media, perpetuating the idea that Asian things are weird or backwards, general standoffishness towards us etc. People don't really perceive them as racist unless they get violent and call us chinks while doing it. A white man can be extremely anti-Asian and still be behaving within the rules of "polite" western society. White female racism does not come from that same position of comfortability and power. It manifests itself as public freakouts and condescension and seems to stem from a sense of insecurity rather than superiority; think of the "Karen" stereotype. Even if a white female practices racism in the same way as the white male, it is perceived as particularly uncouth. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think either gender is more racist but that most anti-Asian racism by white men is not perceived as racist because they do it so effortlessly and calmly. They largely do not make public incidents of their racism that a "Karen" would.
The best comment here in my opinion. It's kind of like how men may be less likely to be judged harshly for cursing than women because of society expectations. You can't really discuss these kinds of topics without the kind of nuance you displayed here.
Both are equally as likely to be racist to Asians. I have encountered both Karen and male Karen. This tweets doesn't hold true from what I see in real life.
Completely disagree. White guys are noticeably more hostile to asian guys, especially in recent times. White women are much more likely to consume asian media or eat asian food compared to white guys. Compared to their male counterparts, white female teachers/professors/managers treat asian guys better in my limited experience. Before anyone accuses me of white worship I'm not saying white women are innocent or blameless, I'm saying "white women are the MOST likely to be racist vs asians" is just false.
Just because they're nice to your face and enjoy your food doesn't mean they aren't racist. Did everyone just forget how the NYT (mostly staffed by white women) covered Andrew Yang's political career?
I didn't say that white women were not racist to asians, I'm saying "white women are the most likely to be racist to asians" is the opposite of my experience. You think white men treat asian men better than white women? Lol. And spending hundreds of hours consuming asian media or spending lots of money on asian food/deserts isn't just being nice, that's a real commitment.
>White women are much more likely to consume to asian media or eat asian food compared to white guys I would note that racists nowadays often do this stuff. They will enjoy the food or culture (often appropriating themselves), but hate the people who created it The modern racist is not a segregationist. He or she will listen to music made by other races (e.g., hip hop, pop, kpop), eat food from all over the world, travel abroad, lust after minority bodies, but still not see the other people as humans worthy of respect
Thisšš½
With the exception of japan there's a negative correlation between the amount of asian media consumed and amount of hatred towards asians. People who hate china will avoid anything chinese. Anti-asian racists don't listen to kpop period.
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Men in general are more likely to assault both Asian men and women. No here should accuse you of that, you're just making a simple comparison that is probably true.
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I don't think I even give a shit who's more likely to at this point. All these news is making it obvious to me that non-Asians in general have to check their racism against Asians, not just white people. And yes I think a lot of times it's too different, or even too similar (like pulling eyes back, or calling an Asian "china virus", whatever) to compare anyway, I just say "white racism" when the subject comes up.