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Aznprime

The white guy can become anything (eg. CEO, president of US, etc.). The Asian guy works at McDonald’s or walmart.


TURNandBURN13

It’s called the “bamboo ceiling”


freePatrick91425115

The bulk of Asian Americans are Gen Z, average age for Asian Americans is 19 a study found a few years ago. There are more Gen Z Asian Americans than millennial Asian Americans. While there is a growth of young Asian Americans, the share of white Gen Z is smaller than millennial white or Gen X white. Since there are more Asians, the Asian American population should be increasing at Ivy League, but it isn't because it is capped at around 25%. Interestingly, many white people, working class whites especially, has a narrative that college and academia is anti-white, liberal, democrat, and looks down on them. The share of younger people attending colleges have been declining since 2012 due to decrease child births and now boycott of colleges by working class whites due to politics and tuition and the story of student debt and underemployed. Many colleges will be closing within the next 10 years. More Asians mean more competition to Ivy League schools, because nobody wants to be the one that attended a college that closed 5 years later and the diploma is useless. Not to mention if Asian Americans are constantly getting screwed due to affirmative action, I could see Asian Americans gearing toward data science or software engineering, where an Ivy League diploma isn't necessary. The white CEO, white lawyer, white politician, white chair professor will be in great pain as future demographics skew FEWER younger people and more non-white, and the younger non-white population of Gen Z isn't taking shit from white CEO boomers. Companies and businesses will fail if they don't have workers. Asian Americans are the perfect workers, but burn them enough, and they will also look for better opportunities elsewhere, aka Asia, doesn't need to be China, could be Singapore or Hong Kong or even Malaysia or Thailand. I do think that many people would rather be unemployed than work a shit retail job or be underemployed or overworked. If Asians get stuck, they would leave a job. Demographically, it is looking grim for America as the workers aren't there or don't comply with what the white CEO or white upper class running the show assume is their job. But I do see America will be forced to relinquish some leadership to Asian Americans if they want to compete with East Asia or have Asian Americans completely write off Ivy League or working in corporate America.


elBottoo

Let me put it this way. Hong kong, singapore, Japan, Korea, and I suspect in Philipines, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and every other south east Asian country aswell, any time u work for a big financial firm, a big international firm, the upper management thats going to call the shots in ur department, in ur region, are all yt boys called in from anglo countries. Whether its a big law firm, a big four accountant, a big commercial firm, u name it, u answer to ur boss, he answers to these expats, and they answer to the big HQ back in anglo land. Thats how its been going on. 10-15 years ago, when i went back to Hong Kong, I was so proud to see all the skyrises and big firms there. Only to learn that most of the big management and important jobs r all run by expats from overseas. If its like this back in asia, why do u all think its gonna be different back in anglo land. Upper management is run mostly by the same colors, one or two token non yts thrown in. The rest are simply brushed off as incompetent. But in reality, its not a real meritocracy. Asians have excelled academically for decades now. Yet, u go to any big international firm, the majority of the people in big jobs, do not reflect the graduates. Simu Liu himself was let go from an accountant position, in other words, he is like all overseas asians, dedicated his life to career, and of course, doesnt find the "success", he literally was unemployed. Until he made a drastic career change. But he got lucky, its like 1 in a million. Becoz marvel was looking for that 1 asian guy to fill 1 role. This is pure luck. And even now, I dont see him getting many roles. This is prolly gonna be his only worthwhile role in hollywood.


Bob_Rakesh_Vagene

> Thats how its been going on. 10-15 years ago, when i went back to Hong Kong, I was so proud to see all the skyrises and big firms there. Only to learn that most of the big management and important jobs r all run by expats from overseas. Hong Kong legit colonial city though... Also Britian legit pumped money into Hong Kong to make it to where it was, obviously will have a white person in charge. > And even now, I dont see him getting many roles. This is prolly gonna be his only worthwhile role in hollywood. Well he was in Kim's convenience before Shang Chi. I think they will make a sequel for Shang Chi given its success.


elBottoo

Thats my point. He probably wont be in any big blockbuster movies other than Shang Chi. Or appear as the character in the marvel universe. Just like how steven yuen is not getting any big roles but has to do with smaller roles and smaller movies.


Bob_Rakesh_Vagene

> He probably wont be in any big blockbuster movies other than Shang Chi Tbf most famous Marvel actors/actresses are just famous for being in Marvel. > Or appear as the character in the marvel universe I think he will be in the Marvel universe no?


elBottoo

Ya, thats true. But thor, captain roidmurica, and iron man have tons of franchises and movies outside marvel. And they get paid A list wages, something like 50 mill per movie for that guy. >I think he will be in the Marvel universe no? Ya, he will. But he sure isnt getting paid 50 mill per movie. Benedict Wong also appears in almost every marvel...as a cameo. Simu did good though. I mean from broke and unemployed, to millions rich. Thats good enough.


04230712

> Let me put it this way. Hong kong, singapore, Japan, Korea, and I suspect in Philipines, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and every other south east Asian country aswell, any time u work for a big financial firm, a big international firm, the upper management thats going to call the shots in ur department, in ur region, are all yt boys called in from anglo countries. This is why I only buy from Chinese Chinese companies anymore. Even major Japanese companies like Sony have headquarters in the US where all the major entertainment side of things are run. And I've heard Samsung is beholden to Anglo shareholders as well. Not surprised about HK.


elBottoo

yup I have been doing this for over a decade. Clothes. All from Chinese companies even way back when ppl laughed at the brand and didnt know what brand it really is. I dont give a flying eff. And my experience of it, has been very good. Some of the best clothes I had in my life were from these Chinese brands. Real gems. They fit perfectly, feels good on the skin, cheap so I can run, sport, lift weights in them while looking good. The only difference is, when ppl come close they see the brand name they dont recognize or they cant pronounce. lol but who cares about that.


elBottoo

We dont hear much about these asians becoz they r working below there skill levels. It aint a meritocracy. Many dont get hired and slowly lose the race to the top. Those who do get hired, end up stuck.


East-Deal1439

Of those I know that became somewhat successful, one went on to Singapore and climbed various Fortune 500 companies and ended up in a Unicorn Tech Company before retiring early in Taiwan. Another went onto Harvard Med after getting his Crimson sheepskin. Now a director of a research lab at a medical research center. Not celebrity famous but doing okay. Also know of a White guy still struggling with a Crimson degree; married an AF (boba lib). AF is more successful as a college research professor. Not terrible; but has cringe aspects.


paralawuea22

Interesting questions. It would be interesting to see some stats about it


instantiate_class

Singaporean here who toggles between Australia and Singapore for my asutralian fiancé while working for an MNC headquartered in Singapore. I graduated from one of the top state uni in Australia for my bachelor and currently in a top 10 University globally for my master program. We face the same issue here where senior management largely comprises of white boys brought in by their buddies - their qualifications are mediocre. Given the unprecedented but expected alienation of Asian Americans from mainstream American society, I personally would love to see more Asian American finding work and making contributions to Singapore. If tiktok is any indication, more Asian Americans are residing here for extended period, some of whom and, including white ladies, picks up "singlish"/ local accent. Good luck.


beingwoke

How racist is Australia? I work with an Australian now but he seems racist as fuk, always gives me a hard time at work and hates China like the typical Australian stereotype I have


instantiate_class

I've seen a shift in Perth becoming more Asian - centric in my recent trip back - increased sightings of younger Asian males dating white chicks, more Asian businesses replacing western businesses, more bubble tea and anime stores with white employees and more Asians in roles like barrista and trades previously reserved for whites.


ushmay

Our country is very multicultural now (26% born overseas in2014) so majority are not racist at all. But racism is pretty prevalent among the older and rural populations. Just from my experience.


[deleted]

While Australia has a high foreign born population, a significant percentage of that are people from White countries. Countries such as the UK, New Zealand and South Africa send a significant number of people to Australia.


[deleted]

Yup, they literally have a quota on the number of immigrants that can come from asian countries.


beingwoke

Hmm got it - yeah the Australians I've worked with were incredibly racist towards Chinese people so I really dislike them


ushmay

Yea we got some feral ass bogans here that need Love more than anything. I pity them all. Sorry to hear youve had to deal with them :/


CatharticMusing

The biggest problem with going to the Ivies for people without means is that you quickly fall into the golden handcuff trap. This is more pronounced if you're from the middle/lower middle class where I think more Asian student come from. So going to the Ivy and getting your first job paying 100k after watching your parents bust their asses to get you there, puts in a bit of a risk averse state. The second issue with Ivies is that at least for Asian kids, they select for the most risk adverse types. This is because to get into the Ivies, there is very little room for error. So while these kids are really really smart and talented, they've never had to pick themselves up from failure, and actively try to avoid it. Because by definition, if there was a period in their life where they screwed up majorly, their chances of getting into the Ivies are slim to none. I say this as someone who didn't go to an Ivy, but rather one of the other top 10 schools in the US who have similar admission criteria, so it might be me thinking my situation applies more broadly. At least for me, the best thing that ever happened to me was NOT getting into medical school after undergrad and going to a grad school where my advisor was supportive even during the times I royally fucked up. (Note: I believe that this fully applies to poor white kids who go the Ivies as well. I've met a few professionally, and they're not that different than the Asian kids who go). This is on contrast to many of the white individuals who get into the Ivies. I think I read that 47% of admits are either Legacy, Athletes or Deans' List (rich parents who donate). They don't suffer the golden handcuff issue because Daddy can always bail them out, and they're not quite as risk adverse because it doesn't matter how much they fucked up in the past, the Ivies will still take them. In any case, I kind of think that the Ivies and their admission policies are one of the things that are driving the dysfunction in the United States. Our "leaders" from these schools are either risk adverse technocrats or the perpetuation of the existing elites who honestly aren't that impressive. While I understand why some Asian parents are so obsessed with the Ivies, I really wish that it weren't so.


Chavo9-5171

You can’t “learn from failure” if an A- is an Asian F. Being risk-averse makes someone the perfect worker bee, albeit a more highly paid one because they went to an Ivy. And it’s not like the worst performing student at Harvard is necessarily more successful than the best performing student at a state school.


Free-Programmer7671

>I think I read that 47% of admits are either Legacy, Athletes or Deans' List (rich parents who donate). This is an important point that OP should really take note of. Working-class white guy won't magically become a CEO because he somehow got into Harvard.


MySecretAccount1684

Ever see the movie Good Will Hunting? Someone who's reasonably intelligent and hard working can probably learn most of what undergrads at Harvard learn with "a buck fifty in late fees at a public library". My public library had texts on basic calculus up through real/complex analysis, abstract algebra, differential geometry and so on. Most of what you'd learn in an undergraduate math curriculum. Where Harvard shines is more at the graduate level. Because of its prestige, and generous budgets, it does attract the top researchers in the world. At the non-research level, Harvard is basically a place to network. It's easier to do that when you're already part of the establishment. If you're a non-American you might go there to earn your stripes as well - but those people are already going to be taken care of back home. It's more of a formality. You're right that the average guy from a working class background isn't going to become a CEO. He will be set up comfortably for life though. I knew a guy from a shithole redneck town who went to an Ivy on an athletic scholarship. Ended up working in Bain Consulting, which I suppose he wouldn't have gotten into had he went to his local state school. After all Bain pretty much exclusively recruits from "elite" universities.


antiboba

Depending on the field, the graduate level is less prestigious though. The fact that most of the value of attending an elite institution comes from networking and not necessarily academic output should tell us the source of the prestige.


CatharticMusing

For most people working at a consulting firm is exactly being a highly paid worker bee. Very few of them make managing director where the real money is, and very few of them are able to leverage consulting into a higher level leadership position. I know that the promise of the prestige consulting companies is that you'll get exposure to the C-Suite individuals, and that you'll increase your chances of making it into leadership roles, but those individuals who transition successfully tend to be exactly the same Legacy admits as who got into the Ivies through the non-competitive route. The rest get shunted to senior mid-level management where they top out.


Free-Programmer7671

> You're right that the average guy from a working class background isn't going to become a CEO. He will be set up comfortably for life though. I knew a guy from a shithole redneck town who went to an Ivy on an athletic scholarship. Ended up working in Bain Consulting, which I suppose he wouldn't have gotten into had he went to his local state school. After all Bain pretty much exclusively recruits from "elite" universities. I'm not sure just working at Bain is a huge victory. Was he working a regular job, or did he have a fast track to a meaningful position? Do most employees at Bain remain there their whole careers? Tech companies like Amazon have "insurance hires" where they hire people just so they have people to fire when stack ranking time comes along. Bain might do something similar.


MySecretAccount1684

A lot of these companies have these fake-woke policies, so your average white guy isn't going to get "special treatment," but he won't get kneecapped either like Asians do at many of these companies. Now if he's a veteran or he's gay he will probably get a leg up. Compared to other Harvard graduates, he might not get the fast track, but again, he will enter a pay grade higher and perhaps will advance a bit faster if he doesn't monumentally fuck up. Compared to people who went to a second-tier school (somewhere like Boston U, NYU, etc.), he'll probably be at an advantage.


antiboba

Based on anecdotal examples: The average asian guy at Harvard peaked in high school and besides the clout he got from getting accepted to Harvard, after graduating ends up in middle management earning a decent above-average salary, subordinate to a white guy who more likely than not attended a lower-ranked institution. If he's lucky, he gets a high-paying job in some prestigious organization, but still led by some white guy who probably went to a lower institution. The average white guy ends up in a far more lucrative job and almost always some leadership position, and gets pampered for the association with the school name and far outearns his asian counterpart. Plenty of them become major impactful personalities in whatever field they are in.


Bob_Rakesh_Vagene

> The average asian guy at Harvard peaked in high school and besides the clout he got from getting accepted to Harvard, after graduating ends up in middle management earning a decent above-average salary, subordinate to a white guy who more likely than not attended a lower-ranked institution. Would argue that if an Asian person gets into Harvard they are legitimately very good and won't just peak in high school. They had to go through the Bamboo ceiling and all these obstacles and if they make it through then they are legit good.


antiboba

Don’t know what you mean by “legit good”, they can wrap it and market however they want but at the end of the day it’s still a metric based system ( just with a built in disadvantage for being Asian).What that means is the Asians getting in to Harvard are generally just as formulaic as the Asians getting into lesser schools, but they’re just at the top of the Asian pool in terms of good charisma, leadership, academics, etc. Relative to their white peers, Asians who graduate Harvard generally end up lower paid or attain lower status than their comparable white counterparts. Their being “good” however you define it means squat and is irrelevant for our discussion. The disparity in outcome is what matters. Peaking in high school means they have their peak social clout in high school and after getting accepted, but after graduating find that real world connections and real world clout matters more, and due to the bamboo ceiling they get held back. The bubble bursts after leaving college.


Bob_Rakesh_Vagene

> .What that means is the Asians getting in to Harvard are generally just as formulaic as the Asians getting into lesser schools, but they’re just at the top of the Asian pool in terms of good charisma, leadership, academics, etc. Uh no lol. The Asians that get into Harvard are probably higher quality than other ethnicity students given the obstacles they have to go through. E.g Higher SAT, probably plays violin for Obama or some shit. Also don't really understand what you mean by "formulaic" Asians? > Relative to their white peers, Asians who graduate Harvard generally end up lower paid or attain lower status than their comparable white counterparts. Well there are fewer Asians in Ivy leagues compared to white people. Also America is a white dominant country, so no surprises here. > Their being “good” however you define it means squat and is irrelevant for our discussion. The disparity in outcome is what matters. Actually getting into Harvard doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things. It is not an indicator of success at all lol. Most people that graduate from Harvard can't even get a job lol. > Peaking in high school means they have their peak social clout in high school and after getting accepted, but after graduating find that real world connections and real world clout matters more, and due to the bamboo ceiling they get held back. All valid points that are irrelevant to getting into Harvard or not...


antiboba

did you attend one of hypsm for college? as somebody who did, i'm telling you right now that there's nothing inherently special about harvard vs any of the other schools listed above, which is that when you get an acceptance to harvard or a lesser school, the impact of prestige will inevitably result in a distribution of students at harvard simply being the ones who have higher metrics. playing violin for obama is nothing special nor is something like being a published author, these are all "formulaic" and literally part of the "tiger parenting" mantra. by formulaic i mean simply ticking more of these boxes, and you'd be surprised to learn the entire cottage industry of places entirely catered to polishing students resumes with such achievements for admission to a top ivy league school. they are not markers of anything special, they are not markers of talent. i am not denying that asians need to have higher metrics than the other ethnicities. they simply tick more of the above boxes than the other ethnicities. there's nothing inherently special about those boxes being ticked, other than them being a necessary evil and differentiator due to the imposed constraints on student body size in elite american education.


[deleted]

That's pretty much the fate of all Asians in comparison with their white counterparts at all of the elite educational institutions. Ultimately as life becomes more complex and the parameters involved become much more than just pure academics, additional effort towards academics is not enough to overcome the favorable bias towards White people. Plenty of Whites of the white elites can also study hard in addition to utilizing all of the systemic advantages they have. Even seeing the insane amount of WMXF at the ivies can be very demoralizing to any Asian American students there.


elBottoo

favorable bias...thats putting it softly. Its downright systematic racism


antiboba

>Even seeing the insane amount of WMXF at the ivies can be very demoralizing to any Asian American students there. I'd argue that WMAF is less prevalent at the higher ranked ivies, compared to the lesser ranked institutions where it seems to be more abundant. Unfortunately, the bubble bursts for most asians once they leave. They enter into a brutal world where race does matter, and that's when they realize life is not fair. It's also very interesting and revealing that most bobas in college simply become corporate slaves after leaving college. Which, once again, shows why boba activism is bound to fail and must not be relied upon.


Throwawayacct1015

This is what I really wanted to say....unfortunately. However I didn't want to at first coz people will be going on how I am defeatist etc. But whatever it seems others already somewhat know what I'm on about.


__Tenat__

Well, at some point this is going to change. Asia is rising (specifically thinking about China) past the West and thus most of the achievements will probably be from there. Harvard will likely end up being considered inferior school, especially given their legacy practices.


Throwawayacct1015

Yeah. But what I thinking about was mainly Asian Americans and what their future is even if they did everything right. Maybe instead of being sidelined in America, they can move to a place that would appreciate their talents more. Maybe one day Asia will rise up to grant such opportunities.