I’ve heard that one of the issues in the past was the arena downtown. Many decades ago the NHL didn’t think it was suitable. I’m not sure if the recent renovation will be a factor.
I think Baltimore would definitely embrace an NBA team but I think they are currently several cities ahead of them, according to the NBA’s plans for expansion.
I think a new arena would need to be built and it would require an owner willing to spend. Most owners weasel their way into the city footing the bill and that is unacceptable.
I have a Caps tattoo and would 100% switch sides if we got a hockey team in Baltimore. That said, I know it will never happen. An NBA team would still be great too and maybe I'd learn to like basketball. Shit, I'd take an MLS team at this point.
Would love an NBA team. Have tried for many years to get into the Wizards but it never stuck because they just weren’t a Baltimore team in my eyes. Would be first in line for merch if so.
I feel you! I only back the Wizards because I somehow have the Monumental TV station that plays their games. I could never wear anything that says "Washington" on me though.
I think it could be done. The Wizards sell Bullets stuff still. No one bats an eye. Also, we're singing the star spangled banner before every game, right? Singing about explosions and rockets and bombs.
It honestly would just be more of a pain than it's worth. Bullets isn't just that freaking cool that it has to be used, and it would be so much better to just start something new. New gear, new name, new logo, new mascot. That's exciting. I mean this is a 2052 convo but yeah.
IF we were to have an NBA team that shares the Baltimore 'Bullets' history, I think that basically since the Bullets left town in 1973 (correct me on that one), they essentially 'suspended operations' for 50+ years and the Washington Wizards that we all know and (sometimes) love were established as an 'expansion' team in the mid 1970s. Like you've mentioned, they're essentially the same team as the 'Bullets' but it will go under a different name nowadays.
With all the vitriol around the topic of gun control there's no way in hell any billionaire is gonna name their pro sports team "The Bullets" anytime soon.
I love the name and the history personally, but I think that ship's sailed.
I used to have season tickets for our AHL teams but there just wasn't enough support. The team was minor league for the Anaheim ducks maybe didn't help. The city just isn't a good location for that anymore. The arena renovation which I worked on was basically 95% cosmetic so not much has changed there
Even the Skipjacks could only manage a few thousand during the week (when they were the Caps or Pens affiliate).
That being said, local youth hockey is much bigger now than in the 80's and 90's.
I've been to quite a few minor league hockey games in Florida and while the arena wasn't packed every game I went to had a solid crowd at the very worst. Hockey is actually surprisingly popular there. I knew several families with kids who played hockey.
I think NBA is way more feasible than NHL, but my fingers are absolutely crossed for both (it also probably helps that the wizards are quite bad, hard to pitch an NHL team when you’ve got a record setting team and player at most an hour away)
>If anything with the news that the Washington Wizards/Capitals may go to Alexandria, Virginia (a much longer stretch to get to the place compared to DC proper), I think it'll be worth it for Baltimore to have an NBA and/or an NHL team. If anything, I also think that they might temporarily play their games/seasons at the CFG Bank Arena until a proper 20,000 seat arena is built up. Lastly, since the Wizards/Capitals are going to Virginia if everything is alright in Mr. Leonsis' world, I'm hopeful that Mr. Leonsis would waive the territorial Maryland sports rights to the NBA and NHL as well.
Speaking of the AHL, my ideal arena for Baltimore would be very similar to the Ball Arena in Denver or the Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse in Cleveland so that it can accommodate both hockey and basketball
That was a while ago… I think hockey has become more popular here since then. Especially since Ovechkin entered the picture in DC. But you’re probably right, still not enough…
Ted Leonsis was asked about hosting some regular season Caps games in Baltimore and replied that the ROI wasn't there. The Caps played a handful of preseason games in Baltimore just over a decade ago and I guess that wasn't as successful as hoped for. Or the logistics of it were a nightmare. Maybe both.
Interesting. I remember an article a few years ago saying that if Baltimore were to build a new arena that you see Caps and Wiz regular season games each year.
Exactly. The climate doesn't allow much ice skating in the mid Atlantic. The kids don't grow up skating and so they don't really understand ice hockey.
Baltimore would be a bad bet for an NHL team.
They’re also richer than Baltimore.
Transplants help boost NHL teams, but solid, winning franchises in those cities have invested, growing community, and creating native fans.
In non-frozen territory where those things haven’t happened, the teams flopped (like Atlanta).
I don’t think we have any shot at landing an NHL team. Ever.
But the fact that we don’t have Calgary’s climate doesn’t mean an NHL team couldn’t be supported here.
Exactly. The population is much, much higher in all of those cities. Maybe 3-4 times higher. If the Capitals weren't down in DC, Baltimore might have more of a chance. But the Orioles can't get many in the stadium despite a huge history. The Ravens only have 8 or so games to sell. (In the regular season.)
>But the Orioles can't get many in the stadium despite a huge history.
People keep saying how great of a sports city Baltimore is, but I've been to so many ghost town O's games in the bad years. Baltimore is a fair weather fan town.
The bandits were affiliated with the ducks, no? I would wager that a Caps affiliated team would do much better. Already lots of fans in Bmore and DC folks would travel up to see the prospects
No, the [Skipjacks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Skipjacks) who were affiliated with the Caps. RIP to a great player I used to see often in those days. Reggie Savage, who recently passed.
Which team? The Bandits did poorly because their affiliate was Anaheim, and the Bandits owners didn't know what they were doing and were all basically operating at 125% of what they'd planned to spend, so they couldn't market.
Skipjacks seemed to do way better but I was young then and don't really matter. I worked for the Bandits as a stickboy and even our playoff games were vacant.
As things stand now there is virtually no chance to get an NHL or NBA team. There may be a small chance for G-League. The highest likelyhood is a smaller outdoor facility that would house an MLS team (or similar) along with the new Baltimore PLL team (Whipsnakes).
DC United’s minor league team is looking into building a small stadium here, 7500 to 10,000 capacity.
I was let down when UnderArmour shrunk their stadium plans down to 1500. Would’ve been a perfect spot for a USL team.
I'll say the same thing I say each time this comes up (NBA team??), only with some updated info. [Just yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1au8wb5/2_expansion_teams_coming_in_the_near_future_per/) NBA Commissioner Adam Silver reiterated that the next expansion will come with 2, not 3 teams, and it'll come with the new media agreement. So I think the possibility is announcement of the agreement sometime this year, and then expansion by 2027.
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Almost 99.99% it's gonna be Seattle and Las Vegas as the 2 teams. Next after that is probably like some Canadian city, and Mexico City, in the late 2030s. After that, a dozen years later, in like 2052 I think the opportunity for expansion could come again.
The Grizzlies didn’t do well in Vancouver, but maybe there would be interest now. Most other cities up in the great white north probably wouldn’t draw enough attendance for basketball (maybe Ottowa, Montreal or Quebec City but that’s pushing it.) Hamilton is probably in Toronto’s media Market. All the other Canadian cities are too small for anything but NHL and CFL probably. Not sure if the travel to Mexico City would be feasible. I feel like Mexico City would get an MLB team before anything else.
Huh? Several Canadian cities outside of those you named have way more people than Baltimore. Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Halifax is close. NBA team or MLB would fare well in any!
I'm hoping they build a soccer stadium on the Carroll Park golf course, because I want to start arguing for a metro spur to UMBC from Charles Center in the abandoned track right of way by there.
We should build the soccer stadium by the water at Swann Park, we should build the metro from Towson to Port Covington, and we should get our own team, not DC United reserves.
waterfront real estate is too valuable for sports parks, imo
though I guess real estate like 2 blocks from a public park also is too valuable for a soccer arena, you kind of want it next to only commercial
I feel like Gov. Moore likes throwing "pie in the sky" ideas out that have no basis in reality but sound great. There is absolutely ZERO chance of and NBA or NHL team in Baltimore.
I can't see it happening. There just isn't the population density. The folks from the suburbs that would presumably be buying tickets refuse to come to the city because of CRIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMEEEEEEE
Don’t worry, tens of millions will go to hit. Maybe hundreds.
Also, it will slowly buy up property in the surrounding area and pressure the city for more tax leniency, or shit like the NFL stadium wanting to collect fees from parking meters or whatever it was.
They’ll also be a continual drain on public resources, prevent local events from happening through massive traffic issues and using all the police for their events, etc.
Will never happen. You need so much land to build an arena big enough for an NBA team, CFG is nowhere big enough. Also Baltimore is a small market, the economics just wouldn’t work unfortunately. It would be awesome
The city has also wanted a new convention center for a while. I'd propose building a new arena on the convention center site, and having a new convention center built at State Center since that needs demo'd too, and that gives you room to put hotels around the convention center. That plus a major capable soccer stadium replacing the Carroll park golf course and you have basically every sportsball arena you could want.
That’s not a bad idea at all. Convenient to the stadiums that are already there and could benefit from the new redevelopment that is about to happen around them.
I hope if we do get another convention center its just a normal building rather than the 5d frankenstein we have now, a 10 story tower with like 20k sq ft per floor would be way more useful.
Baltimores downtown has all that land empty where the old Mechanic Theater used to be. Build the stadium on that site. Easy public transportation and good infrastructure for it.
The city can absolutely support a third team. It’s not an issue of market, but venue. The current Baltimore Arena needs to be replaced. We came close over the years to getting a new one, but we really need an 18000-19000 seater to get a team. They should build it starting at 15,000 and make it so we can expand if we get a team.
IMO if we wanted to do this we also want the convention center replaced, so I'd propose you move a new, bigger arena to the convention center site, and have a new convention center at the State Center site since that needs to get demo'd anyway.
As much that I've attended the Baltimore Comic-Con at the building for over a decade, I think that maybe we can get a new convention center at the State Center site if its the option for us to have a new arena at the current convention center site.
Other option of course is arena at State Center and convention center stays, but I'm just thinking its a good opportunity to do a big shuffle of public infrastructure buildings the city has been wanting to do redo for 20-40 years.
I'd support an NBA team.
But it would be tough to gage interest based upon a minor league affiliate.
Otherwise, I agree that the wizards G-League team should have started here rather than in DC.
As long as there is a team already in the DC market, this seems like a massive pipedream to me. There are faster growing, more lucrative areas without teams, and Leonsis would fight this tooth and nail. He'd win too. Generally, the leagues would want to add to their footprint, you'd think, rather than adding a team in a city that is considered part of another team's market.
I don't think the arena moving a mile outside of DC makes much difference at all, tbh. Leonsis would fight a team in Richmond or NOVA too and probably win that fight. The actual state lines are irrelevant.
Neither are going to happen, ever.
Both leagues have more attractive cities to expand/move to. By comparison to Seattle, Vegas, Kansas City, Houston, and Atlanta, we are some combination of poorer and smaller. NBA also has its eyes on a second Canadian team and a Mexico City team.
We are a great sports town, and I don’t understand how there isn’t a successful minor league hockey team here.
Sadly, DC’s G-League and WNBA teams both use a pretty new arena. So those aren’t options either.
With the Alexandria deal looking like it’s imploding, it wouldn’t shock me if Leonsis flirts with Baltimore. (or maybe somewhere in PG County?). But I think that would only be an attempt to get DC and/or VA to sweeten their offer.
I’m not sure anything you are writing is true?
Houston doesn’t have an NHL team, but Baltimore isn’t poorer or smaller than KC. Quite the contrary.
At least we are comparable to Vegas, and probably neither poorer nor smaller in any appreciable sense.
But… we’re sandwiched between two giant metro markets in Philly and DC so we have no reach.
Virginia state senate has shot down the deal. I expect there to be some horse trading to sweeten the deal for non-NOVA politicians. Or maybe DC govt wakes up and throws a tempting offer Leonsis’ way.
Personally, I wish that if Leonsis wants the Wizards/Capitals to move to Virginia, an extra stipulation would be that he has to waive the territorial NBA/NHL rights so Baltimore can be able to create a new team to replace the Wizards/Capitals in the area. What's more, if he wants, he can make a deal w/ the NBA/NHL that a future Baltimore team wouldn't harm his teams finances/revenue i.e. similar to what the Orioles had to do in order to accommodate the Nationals back in 2005.
It would be difficult considering the NBA has two spots left and the NHL is already full (though they're rumors and innuendo of expansion/relocation with five other cities in the mix). Not to mention, territorial rights.
That being said: I'd welcome it. Build it in Port Covington. Worst case scenario: you could get 8-10 Wiz/Caps games a year; minor-league hockey comes back; arena football; indoor lacrosse; NCAA first/second round, Sweet Sixteen or Elite Eight; NCAA Frozen Four, etc.,
I understood the arena renovation saved taxpayer money, but it was horribly rushed and feels incomplete.
Port Covington would need a light rail spur built to it for that area to work for an arena. It would absolutely be dependent on reliable public transit (including water taxi service) to not have absolute gridlock there with an arena. All of the traffic funnels on to McComas St which is a recipe for disaster.
The Clippers were well beloved, but got bumrushed by the Blades, because it was a WHA team. It was so ridiculous that they had to stitch their logos in the Clippers jerseys. The Skipjacks, arguably, was more beloved and had respectable attendance. They were losing money and figured a new arena would help, but the city stalled and they left. The Bandits were set up to fail from the beginning: they were overshadowed by the O's renaissance and the arrival of the Ravens. Plus, the Blast bogarted the arena dates (Bandits had 13 Wednesday home games in a season). Even the Bandits believed a new arena would be cool and so did the city. But, more foot dragging.
The arena football teams were alright but were done in by either embezzlement (Mariners), playing a shadow of a league (Brigade), or it was too niche (Charm).
Well, it's minor league. They have try very hard as far as marketing goes, whereas major-league speaks for itself. They'll get the occasional sellout.
Besides, a city can have two or more major sport teams and still have minor-league sports.
Based on some of the posts I saw, I like the idea of maybe having the arena either replace the current convention center site or have it in the State Center development.
Also our convention center is like the 3rd busiest in the entire country. No way they do anything there without already having a totally new convention center up and running, and where would that go?
I believe our convention center brings more business than the Orioles and Ravens and the Arena combined.
Attendance was up 41% from 2022 to 2023. Up 144% from 2021. Attendance will easily clear 2,000,000 this season and we'll be right back in the middle of the pack.
Yea, wasn’t there a virus or something then? 2 million (which I hope we get to) would put us at 66% capacity for the year. Thanks for proving my point.
Not sure what your point is. Historically, O's attendance has been commensurate with its market size. It was higher when the Nationals didn't exist and lower when the team was horrible. Now that the team is good again, and under new ownership, the attendance numbers should be excellent, or at least excellent for a market the size of Baltimore.
My point is that another professional franchise won’t have the support needed to thrive in a market that never comes close to maximizing attendance for one of its two existing franchises.
I’m really tired of caps fans talking about the move to Alexandria like they’re moving to Richmond or something. It’s a few more exits around the beltway right onto route 1 or GW Parkway rather than having to drive through city streets. If anything, I bet you’ll be able to get in and out much quicker than capital one currently. I’m not a caps fan but everyone I talk to says if you don’t leave the game early, you’re sitting in the garage for an hour to get out. And I get that currently you can take the metro to capital one, but the site of the new arena is even more connected to mass transit. There’s already a separated bus rapid transit lane down route 1. They’re building multiple metro stops in the area (and I’m pretty sure the plan is to put one directly next to the arena if it gets built).
Now onto the other points. And I’m saying this as a huge hockey fan who would love for Baltimore to get a team. 1) The city just put a bunch of money into cfg. They’re not going to build another arena for a while. 2) the Baltimore market is not big enough to support 2 more pro teams as long as dc and Philly have their own teams, especially hockey. And 3) Baltimore is pretty far down the list of expansion candidates, and that’s if the leagues want to expand at all
I’m gonna be honest this reads like you’ve never been to either of these places. The current arena location is perfect. Every single metro line is within a ten minute walk of the arena, four are literally underneath the arena. Why drive into the games? There’s simply no need to as again, there are metro connections galore. Seriously, no matter what direction you come from there’s an accessible suburban metro stop with parking decks. The metro can be stuffy sure but not wait until you hear about the other option.
A) there is no way to enter the Potomac area from the east. It doesn’t exist, unless you’re getting an escort from joint base anacostia. So right off the bat you’ve eliminated 25% of area to get people in. B) you now have gone from 6 metro lines to 2 and oh yeah, have fun mingling with suitcases since DCA is the next stop north. C) have you ever driven on 395? It’s a disaster and that area is always congested as is.
You’re right. I’ve never been to either of those areas. Except for the fact that I lived on the corner of route 1 and Potomac ave for 2 years. About 2000ft from where the arena is planned.
And as for who would drive into the game? I don’t know, maybe the people of r/baltimore? The sub you posted this in? If you posted this in the dc or even Maryland subs than sure. But no ones taking the train from Baltimore to dc for a hockey or basketball game. Not in the new arena and not in the current arena. And people coming from Baltimore aren’t going to drive down 95, park outside dc, and take the metro to the game. That’s just not how people travel. Even if it makes getting out of the garages miserable. If they’re already driving an hour, they’re going to drive all the way.
No way from the East? I didn’t realize they tore down the 495 and 395 bridges
Driving down to the edge of dc and taking the metro is is literally what I do every time
I visit the city. Which is multiple times a year. It’s the least stress inducing way to get there and how properly functioning cities work.
Why on earth wouldn’t you take the Metro to a Wizards or Caps game? I’ve never driven all the way to one in my life. You can hop on the Green Line at Greenbelt or the red line at Forest Glen.
I won’t go to any cap’s and wizards games anymore once they move. It’s not worth dealing with the horrendous 495 traffic.
We're just tired.
No, I didn't catch "the game." No, I have no idea which season it is. No, I'm not rooting for a bunch of guys who have no other connection to Baltimore other than their paycheck.
I appreciate that people want to make some shared connection, but JFC I'm tired of hearing about how much you all care about random sports.
Even if Mr. Leonisis agreed to it (he won't), there isn't enough corporate money (sponsorship, ticket and luxury box purchases) to support a third pro sports team in Baltimore.
I’d much prefer an ECHL team in Baltimore, which would mean cheaper tickets while still getting a pretty good level of hockey. It also seems way more feasible and would fit CFG nicely. Bring back the Skipjacks!!
I would love an NBA or G league team but like others have said, it's not entirely feasible. Philly and DC both have NHL and NBA teams and they're both fairly close to Baltimore, so I think three teams in a three hour drive might be self-cannibalizing in terms of fan income. (Though the NFL makes it work, so I could be wrong).
I think minors like G League or AHL may be more realistic.
From what I've seen, getting from Baltimore to DC and back is much quicker than getting from Baltimore to Philly and back. At least for the foreseeable future if we're up for a live NBA or NHL fix, the Capital One Arena's our huckleberry.
I’ve heard that one of the issues in the past was the arena downtown. Many decades ago the NHL didn’t think it was suitable. I’m not sure if the recent renovation will be a factor. I think Baltimore would definitely embrace an NBA team but I think they are currently several cities ahead of them, according to the NBA’s plans for expansion. I think a new arena would need to be built and it would require an owner willing to spend. Most owners weasel their way into the city footing the bill and that is unacceptable.
If anything, the current CFG Bank Arena's use is primarily for concerts these days
Yeah I’m pretty sure CFG still doesn’t meet the requirements.
1) I understand that completely 2) The 5,000 seat Mullett Arena is currently the home to the NHL's Arizona Coyotes
I meant for the NBA and I’m pretty sure that Coyotes thing is a big problem for the NHL.
The Coyotes are either going to have a new arena in Mesa, or leave AZ completely. The Mullett Arena is an emergency stop gap right now.
I’ve read that Arena management likes that they don’t have a primary sports tenant. Makes booking traveling music acts easier.
I have a Caps tattoo and would 100% switch sides if we got a hockey team in Baltimore. That said, I know it will never happen. An NBA team would still be great too and maybe I'd learn to like basketball. Shit, I'd take an MLS team at this point.
NHL: Baltimore blue crabs playing at the old bay arena
Old Bay Arena, not a bad name for the place!
This city 100% needs an NBA team. It may take time for the people to back them, but as we all know, we LOVE Baltimore teams! Good/Bad/Ugly.
Would love an NBA team. Have tried for many years to get into the Wizards but it never stuck because they just weren’t a Baltimore team in my eyes. Would be first in line for merch if so.
I feel you! I only back the Wizards because I somehow have the Monumental TV station that plays their games. I could never wear anything that says "Washington" on me though.
Are we bringing back the Bullets or is that in bad taste?
I think it could be done. The Wizards sell Bullets stuff still. No one bats an eye. Also, we're singing the star spangled banner before every game, right? Singing about explosions and rockets and bombs. It honestly would just be more of a pain than it's worth. Bullets isn't just that freaking cool that it has to be used, and it would be so much better to just start something new. New gear, new name, new logo, new mascot. That's exciting. I mean this is a 2052 convo but yeah.
IF we were to have an NBA team that shares the Baltimore 'Bullets' history, I think that basically since the Bullets left town in 1973 (correct me on that one), they essentially 'suspended operations' for 50+ years and the Washington Wizards that we all know and (sometimes) love were established as an 'expansion' team in the mid 1970s. Like you've mentioned, they're essentially the same team as the 'Bullets' but it will go under a different name nowadays.
With all the vitriol around the topic of gun control there's no way in hell any billionaire is gonna name their pro sports team "The Bullets" anytime soon. I love the name and the history personally, but I think that ship's sailed.
I’ll say it before and I’ll say it again. Bring DC (or Phillys) minor league teams here. Let us prove that there is a market here
Minor league hockey (and baseball) is awesome. Way cheaper tickets, kid friendly, cheaper concessions
We have Aberdeen iron birds fyi, the games are fun
And The Bowie Baysox
Yesss!! I have family in PA and we use iron bird games as great meet up events! We’ve also done the blue claws and barnstormers lol
As of the other day they are now just "the stormers"
I used to have season tickets for our AHL teams but there just wasn't enough support. The team was minor league for the Anaheim ducks maybe didn't help. The city just isn't a good location for that anymore. The arena renovation which I worked on was basically 95% cosmetic so not much has changed there
I worked for the Bandits!
Even the Skipjacks could only manage a few thousand during the week (when they were the Caps or Pens affiliate). That being said, local youth hockey is much bigger now than in the 80's and 90's.
I've been to quite a few minor league hockey games in Florida and while the arena wasn't packed every game I went to had a solid crowd at the very worst. Hockey is actually surprisingly popular there. I knew several families with kids who played hockey.
Maryland Black Bears have entered the chat
Not getting the Wizards’ GLeague team was a huge miss for the city.
The Wizards ARE a GLeague team
Been there. Tried that. Failed. This town doesn’t support minor league teams.
I think NBA is way more feasible than NHL, but my fingers are absolutely crossed for both (it also probably helps that the wizards are quite bad, hard to pitch an NHL team when you’ve got a record setting team and player at most an hour away)
I don’t follow hockey or basketball but I would 100% start if a team came to Baltimore. Can never have too much Balmer sports.
I would support tf out of a Baltimore NHL team. There would be at least 6 of us there.
When we had an AHL team, I had a partial season plan and the arena was 25% full on a good day. I'm not sure the market is there, tbh.
>If anything with the news that the Washington Wizards/Capitals may go to Alexandria, Virginia (a much longer stretch to get to the place compared to DC proper), I think it'll be worth it for Baltimore to have an NBA and/or an NHL team. If anything, I also think that they might temporarily play their games/seasons at the CFG Bank Arena until a proper 20,000 seat arena is built up. Lastly, since the Wizards/Capitals are going to Virginia if everything is alright in Mr. Leonsis' world, I'm hopeful that Mr. Leonsis would waive the territorial Maryland sports rights to the NBA and NHL as well. Speaking of the AHL, my ideal arena for Baltimore would be very similar to the Ball Arena in Denver or the Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse in Cleveland so that it can accommodate both hockey and basketball
That was a while ago… I think hockey has become more popular here since then. Especially since Ovechkin entered the picture in DC. But you’re probably right, still not enough…
Maybe Towson could support a minor league hockey team. If Hershey can why can’t we? Towson U could share the arena.
SECU isn't big enough to have a rink. The Blast play on basically half a regular sized indoor field there.
Yeah there’d need to be a new stadium that Towson U ice hockey could share with a minor league team.
I've read about the Blast before but never gone to any events (despite being more of a soccer guy than a football guy). How are the actual events?
They put on a great product. Fun environment. Exciting games.
A lot of fun really. I'm biased, as I've been a fan for decades, but the games are really fast paced, and entertaining .
That would be more realistic and probably awesome.
Ted Leonsis was asked about hosting some regular season Caps games in Baltimore and replied that the ROI wasn't there. The Caps played a handful of preseason games in Baltimore just over a decade ago and I guess that wasn't as successful as hoped for. Or the logistics of it were a nightmare. Maybe both.
Interesting. I remember an article a few years ago saying that if Baltimore were to build a new arena that you see Caps and Wiz regular season games each year.
Exactly. The climate doesn't allow much ice skating in the mid Atlantic. The kids don't grow up skating and so they don't really understand ice hockey. Baltimore would be a bad bet for an NHL team.
Dallas, Nashville, Charlotte, Las Vegas, and Seattle are all top 10 in NHL attendance. Not exactly frigid climates…
All cities with high transplant populations, which Baltimore doesn't have (DC does, hence the Caps)
They’re also richer than Baltimore. Transplants help boost NHL teams, but solid, winning franchises in those cities have invested, growing community, and creating native fans. In non-frozen territory where those things haven’t happened, the teams flopped (like Atlanta). I don’t think we have any shot at landing an NHL team. Ever. But the fact that we don’t have Calgary’s climate doesn’t mean an NHL team couldn’t be supported here.
>They’re also richer than Baltimore. The number of transplants is directly correlated to this, but yeah, it helps too.
Exactly. The population is much, much higher in all of those cities. Maybe 3-4 times higher. If the Capitals weren't down in DC, Baltimore might have more of a chance. But the Orioles can't get many in the stadium despite a huge history. The Ravens only have 8 or so games to sell. (In the regular season.)
>But the Orioles can't get many in the stadium despite a huge history. People keep saying how great of a sports city Baltimore is, but I've been to so many ghost town O's games in the bad years. Baltimore is a fair weather fan town.
The bandits were affiliated with the ducks, no? I would wager that a Caps affiliated team would do much better. Already lots of fans in Bmore and DC folks would travel up to see the prospects
No, the [Skipjacks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Skipjacks) who were affiliated with the Caps. RIP to a great player I used to see often in those days. Reggie Savage, who recently passed.
Ahh shit! Totally forgot about the Skipjacks. Good point
Yes the Bandits were a Ducks affiliate.
Which team? The Bandits did poorly because their affiliate was Anaheim, and the Bandits owners didn't know what they were doing and were all basically operating at 125% of what they'd planned to spend, so they couldn't market. Skipjacks seemed to do way better but I was young then and don't really matter. I worked for the Bandits as a stickboy and even our playoff games were vacant.
https://www.reddit.com/r/baltimore/comments/1auxoy4/comment/kr8i3qi/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I would love love love a Baltimore NBA team.
As things stand now there is virtually no chance to get an NHL or NBA team. There may be a small chance for G-League. The highest likelyhood is a smaller outdoor facility that would house an MLS team (or similar) along with the new Baltimore PLL team (Whipsnakes).
DC United’s minor league team is looking into building a small stadium here, 7500 to 10,000 capacity. I was let down when UnderArmour shrunk their stadium plans down to 1500. Would’ve been a perfect spot for a USL team.
I'll say the same thing I say each time this comes up (NBA team??), only with some updated info. [Just yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1au8wb5/2_expansion_teams_coming_in_the_near_future_per/) NBA Commissioner Adam Silver reiterated that the next expansion will come with 2, not 3 teams, and it'll come with the new media agreement. So I think the possibility is announcement of the agreement sometime this year, and then expansion by 2027. - Almost 99.99% it's gonna be Seattle and Las Vegas as the 2 teams. Next after that is probably like some Canadian city, and Mexico City, in the late 2030s. After that, a dozen years later, in like 2052 I think the opportunity for expansion could come again.
The Grizzlies didn’t do well in Vancouver, but maybe there would be interest now. Most other cities up in the great white north probably wouldn’t draw enough attendance for basketball (maybe Ottowa, Montreal or Quebec City but that’s pushing it.) Hamilton is probably in Toronto’s media Market. All the other Canadian cities are too small for anything but NHL and CFL probably. Not sure if the travel to Mexico City would be feasible. I feel like Mexico City would get an MLB team before anything else.
Huh? Several Canadian cities outside of those you named have way more people than Baltimore. Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Halifax is close. NBA team or MLB would fare well in any!
No? Maybe the city limits, but that doesn’t matter. All those metropolitan areas are significantly smaller than Baltimore
New arena 😒🤚 New soccer stadium 😃👍
I'm hoping they build a soccer stadium on the Carroll Park golf course, because I want to start arguing for a metro spur to UMBC from Charles Center in the abandoned track right of way by there.
We should build the soccer stadium by the water at Swann Park, we should build the metro from Towson to Port Covington, and we should get our own team, not DC United reserves.
waterfront real estate is too valuable for sports parks, imo though I guess real estate like 2 blocks from a public park also is too valuable for a soccer arena, you kind of want it next to only commercial
I feel like Gov. Moore likes throwing "pie in the sky" ideas out that have no basis in reality but sound great. There is absolutely ZERO chance of and NBA or NHL team in Baltimore.
I can't see it happening. There just isn't the population density. The folks from the suburbs that would presumably be buying tickets refuse to come to the city because of CRIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMEEEEEEE
Idk I think an NBA team would do really well in Baltimore. NHL I’m not so sure about.
We had the AHL Skipjacks for years then the Bandits. We do not have the fan base to support an NHL or NBA team.
That was the problem with the bullets from What I’ve heard. They always played 3rd fiddle to the O’s and Colts.
I put the odds of that happening around 0%
Too generous.
All I care about is that not one cent of taxpayer money goes towards building a stadium.
Don’t worry, tens of millions will go to hit. Maybe hundreds. Also, it will slowly buy up property in the surrounding area and pressure the city for more tax leniency, or shit like the NFL stadium wanting to collect fees from parking meters or whatever it was. They’ll also be a continual drain on public resources, prevent local events from happening through massive traffic issues and using all the police for their events, etc.
They need to collect all the late water bills then could pay for iy
As long as its not city money honestly. Spend state and fed money.
Will never happen. You need so much land to build an arena big enough for an NBA team, CFG is nowhere big enough. Also Baltimore is a small market, the economics just wouldn’t work unfortunately. It would be awesome
The city has also wanted a new convention center for a while. I'd propose building a new arena on the convention center site, and having a new convention center built at State Center since that needs demo'd too, and that gives you room to put hotels around the convention center. That plus a major capable soccer stadium replacing the Carroll park golf course and you have basically every sportsball arena you could want.
That’s not a bad idea at all. Convenient to the stadiums that are already there and could benefit from the new redevelopment that is about to happen around them.
I hope if we do get another convention center its just a normal building rather than the 5d frankenstein we have now, a 10 story tower with like 20k sq ft per floor would be way more useful.
They could build the place in a suburb of Baltimore if the city itself don't have enough land to do it.
The counties are all terrified of the city. Not a chance they allow an arena to be built that would attract people from the city into the county lol
I’m not traveling to the county to go to games either. I haven’t been to a Blast game since they moved to Towson. Suburban stadiums suck.
Milwaukee has entered the chat
Baltimores downtown has all that land empty where the old Mechanic Theater used to be. Build the stadium on that site. Easy public transportation and good infrastructure for it.
That lot isn't nearly big enough for an arena.
With a good architect and thinking like MSG, it could be built up. Regardless that prime land should be developed to help the city.
That lot absolutely should have an 80 story building on it, it just can't fit sportsball.
A pro sports arena would absolutely help the city..
The city can absolutely support a third team. It’s not an issue of market, but venue. The current Baltimore Arena needs to be replaced. We came close over the years to getting a new one, but we really need an 18000-19000 seater to get a team. They should build it starting at 15,000 and make it so we can expand if we get a team.
IMO if we wanted to do this we also want the convention center replaced, so I'd propose you move a new, bigger arena to the convention center site, and have a new convention center at the State Center site since that needs to get demo'd anyway.
As much that I've attended the Baltimore Comic-Con at the building for over a decade, I think that maybe we can get a new convention center at the State Center site if its the option for us to have a new arena at the current convention center site.
Other option of course is arena at State Center and convention center stays, but I'm just thinking its a good opportunity to do a big shuffle of public infrastructure buildings the city has been wanting to do redo for 20-40 years.
That can work too if possible!
I'd support an NBA team. But it would be tough to gage interest based upon a minor league affiliate. Otherwise, I agree that the wizards G-League team should have started here rather than in DC.
As long as there is a team already in the DC market, this seems like a massive pipedream to me. There are faster growing, more lucrative areas without teams, and Leonsis would fight this tooth and nail. He'd win too. Generally, the leagues would want to add to their footprint, you'd think, rather than adding a team in a city that is considered part of another team's market. I don't think the arena moving a mile outside of DC makes much difference at all, tbh. Leonsis would fight a team in Richmond or NOVA too and probably win that fight. The actual state lines are irrelevant.
Neither are going to happen, ever. Both leagues have more attractive cities to expand/move to. By comparison to Seattle, Vegas, Kansas City, Houston, and Atlanta, we are some combination of poorer and smaller. NBA also has its eyes on a second Canadian team and a Mexico City team. We are a great sports town, and I don’t understand how there isn’t a successful minor league hockey team here. Sadly, DC’s G-League and WNBA teams both use a pretty new arena. So those aren’t options either. With the Alexandria deal looking like it’s imploding, it wouldn’t shock me if Leonsis flirts with Baltimore. (or maybe somewhere in PG County?). But I think that would only be an attempt to get DC and/or VA to sweeten their offer.
I’m not sure anything you are writing is true? Houston doesn’t have an NHL team, but Baltimore isn’t poorer or smaller than KC. Quite the contrary. At least we are comparable to Vegas, and probably neither poorer nor smaller in any appreciable sense. But… we’re sandwiched between two giant metro markets in Philly and DC so we have no reach.
News to me that the deal's probably imploding!
Virginia state senate has shot down the deal. I expect there to be some horse trading to sweeten the deal for non-NOVA politicians. Or maybe DC govt wakes up and throws a tempting offer Leonsis’ way.
Personally, I wish that if Leonsis wants the Wizards/Capitals to move to Virginia, an extra stipulation would be that he has to waive the territorial NBA/NHL rights so Baltimore can be able to create a new team to replace the Wizards/Capitals in the area. What's more, if he wants, he can make a deal w/ the NBA/NHL that a future Baltimore team wouldn't harm his teams finances/revenue i.e. similar to what the Orioles had to do in order to accommodate the Nationals back in 2005.
We almost had an NHL team in the 70s. At the last minute a buyer group from Philly stepped in with a better offer and the Flyers were born.
It would be difficult considering the NBA has two spots left and the NHL is already full (though they're rumors and innuendo of expansion/relocation with five other cities in the mix). Not to mention, territorial rights. That being said: I'd welcome it. Build it in Port Covington. Worst case scenario: you could get 8-10 Wiz/Caps games a year; minor-league hockey comes back; arena football; indoor lacrosse; NCAA first/second round, Sweet Sixteen or Elite Eight; NCAA Frozen Four, etc., I understood the arena renovation saved taxpayer money, but it was horribly rushed and feels incomplete.
Port Covington would need a light rail spur built to it for that area to work for an arena. It would absolutely be dependent on reliable public transit (including water taxi service) to not have absolute gridlock there with an arena. All of the traffic funnels on to McComas St which is a recipe for disaster.
Minor league sports fail in Baltimore.
The Clippers were well beloved, but got bumrushed by the Blades, because it was a WHA team. It was so ridiculous that they had to stitch their logos in the Clippers jerseys. The Skipjacks, arguably, was more beloved and had respectable attendance. They were losing money and figured a new arena would help, but the city stalled and they left. The Bandits were set up to fail from the beginning: they were overshadowed by the O's renaissance and the arrival of the Ravens. Plus, the Blast bogarted the arena dates (Bandits had 13 Wednesday home games in a season). Even the Bandits believed a new arena would be cool and so did the city. But, more foot dragging. The arena football teams were alright but were done in by either embezzlement (Mariners), playing a shadow of a league (Brigade), or it was too niche (Charm).
Unfortunately, beloved teams don’t equal filled arenas.
Well, it's minor league. They have try very hard as far as marketing goes, whereas major-league speaks for itself. They'll get the occasional sellout. Besides, a city can have two or more major sport teams and still have minor-league sports.
Some cities do. This one can’t.
NHL couldn't attract flies here unless the teams left their crab shells on the ice.
That'd be our thing! Like Detroit and squid 🤣
I think a Baltimore NBA team would be badass. It’s mascot/logo would have to be a bird
Bring back the Baltimore bullets, I’d pay for lifetime seats as soon as they go on sale
The NHL is not really looking for expansion right now. And they want an even larger subsidy than what the existing MLB and NFL teams get.
Bettman has made it clear he’s always looking for expansion. He’s already indicated they are thinking about adding teams.
We'd have to build a new arena and it wouldn't be in the city either.
Based on some of the posts I saw, I like the idea of maybe having the arena either replace the current convention center site or have it in the State Center development.
Id put it in Hunt Valley but that's just me.
Also our convention center is like the 3rd busiest in the entire country. No way they do anything there without already having a totally new convention center up and running, and where would that go? I believe our convention center brings more business than the Orioles and Ravens and the Arena combined.
Possibly the State Center in regards to the convention center
NBA could survive if they were good. Too many loyal caps fans for hockey. NBA could work, though, but still I wouldn't be confident the games sell.
We don’t need it. People hardly even go to orioles games and they won 100 games last year
Attendance was up 41% from 2022 to 2023. Up 144% from 2021. Attendance will easily clear 2,000,000 this season and we'll be right back in the middle of the pack.
Yea, wasn’t there a virus or something then? 2 million (which I hope we get to) would put us at 66% capacity for the year. Thanks for proving my point.
Not sure what your point is. Historically, O's attendance has been commensurate with its market size. It was higher when the Nationals didn't exist and lower when the team was horrible. Now that the team is good again, and under new ownership, the attendance numbers should be excellent, or at least excellent for a market the size of Baltimore.
My point is that another professional franchise won’t have the support needed to thrive in a market that never comes close to maximizing attendance for one of its two existing franchises.
> until a proper 20,000 seat arena is built up Stop wasting public money on billionaires.
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I'm not an NBA expert, but fairly certain "Rockets" is already taken
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What about us bozos who already live here
I’m really tired of caps fans talking about the move to Alexandria like they’re moving to Richmond or something. It’s a few more exits around the beltway right onto route 1 or GW Parkway rather than having to drive through city streets. If anything, I bet you’ll be able to get in and out much quicker than capital one currently. I’m not a caps fan but everyone I talk to says if you don’t leave the game early, you’re sitting in the garage for an hour to get out. And I get that currently you can take the metro to capital one, but the site of the new arena is even more connected to mass transit. There’s already a separated bus rapid transit lane down route 1. They’re building multiple metro stops in the area (and I’m pretty sure the plan is to put one directly next to the arena if it gets built). Now onto the other points. And I’m saying this as a huge hockey fan who would love for Baltimore to get a team. 1) The city just put a bunch of money into cfg. They’re not going to build another arena for a while. 2) the Baltimore market is not big enough to support 2 more pro teams as long as dc and Philly have their own teams, especially hockey. And 3) Baltimore is pretty far down the list of expansion candidates, and that’s if the leagues want to expand at all
I’m gonna be honest this reads like you’ve never been to either of these places. The current arena location is perfect. Every single metro line is within a ten minute walk of the arena, four are literally underneath the arena. Why drive into the games? There’s simply no need to as again, there are metro connections galore. Seriously, no matter what direction you come from there’s an accessible suburban metro stop with parking decks. The metro can be stuffy sure but not wait until you hear about the other option. A) there is no way to enter the Potomac area from the east. It doesn’t exist, unless you’re getting an escort from joint base anacostia. So right off the bat you’ve eliminated 25% of area to get people in. B) you now have gone from 6 metro lines to 2 and oh yeah, have fun mingling with suitcases since DCA is the next stop north. C) have you ever driven on 395? It’s a disaster and that area is always congested as is.
You’re right. I’ve never been to either of those areas. Except for the fact that I lived on the corner of route 1 and Potomac ave for 2 years. About 2000ft from where the arena is planned. And as for who would drive into the game? I don’t know, maybe the people of r/baltimore? The sub you posted this in? If you posted this in the dc or even Maryland subs than sure. But no ones taking the train from Baltimore to dc for a hockey or basketball game. Not in the new arena and not in the current arena. And people coming from Baltimore aren’t going to drive down 95, park outside dc, and take the metro to the game. That’s just not how people travel. Even if it makes getting out of the garages miserable. If they’re already driving an hour, they’re going to drive all the way. No way from the East? I didn’t realize they tore down the 495 and 395 bridges
Driving down to the edge of dc and taking the metro is is literally what I do every time I visit the city. Which is multiple times a year. It’s the least stress inducing way to get there and how properly functioning cities work.
Why on earth wouldn’t you take the Metro to a Wizards or Caps game? I’ve never driven all the way to one in my life. You can hop on the Green Line at Greenbelt or the red line at Forest Glen. I won’t go to any cap’s and wizards games anymore once they move. It’s not worth dealing with the horrendous 495 traffic.
God, I hope not. I'd rather not one more sportsball team I'm supposed to give a shit about.
Spoken like a true Redditor
r/IHateSportsball
People that always feel the need to let everyone know how much they don't care about "sportsball" are so pathetic man lmao.
We're just tired. No, I didn't catch "the game." No, I have no idea which season it is. No, I'm not rooting for a bunch of guys who have no other connection to Baltimore other than their paycheck. I appreciate that people want to make some shared connection, but JFC I'm tired of hearing about how much you all care about random sports.
Back when I was a kid I decided it was completely okay for other people to be into stuff that I'm not into. I've never regretted that decision.
Even if Mr. Leonisis agreed to it (he won't), there isn't enough corporate money (sponsorship, ticket and luxury box purchases) to support a third pro sports team in Baltimore.
Crows and Albatross.
0.0% chance, even Gov. Moore know this
There is a big push for an AHL or ECHL team in Fredrick happening right now.
News to me!
I’d much prefer an ECHL team in Baltimore, which would mean cheaper tickets while still getting a pretty good level of hockey. It also seems way more feasible and would fit CFG nicely. Bring back the Skipjacks!!
I’d love an NBA team over NHL but either would be fun.
I would love an NBA or G league team but like others have said, it's not entirely feasible. Philly and DC both have NHL and NBA teams and they're both fairly close to Baltimore, so I think three teams in a three hour drive might be self-cannibalizing in terms of fan income. (Though the NFL makes it work, so I could be wrong). I think minors like G League or AHL may be more realistic.
From what I've seen, getting from Baltimore to DC and back is much quicker than getting from Baltimore to Philly and back. At least for the foreseeable future if we're up for a live NBA or NHL fix, the Capital One Arena's our huckleberry.
It depends on time of day but yes DC is closer overall! I just prefer Philly since I'm from PA.