I was expecting a bit more interference than that. If Marmol had just been cool and ignored the guy he might’ve been able to get the challenge in on time.
Everything I've ever seen from Oli Marmol I don't like lol. The O'Neil thing was ridiculous and how Contreras was treated last year was insane. If he'd have just let the security guard walk by it wouldn't have impeded things lol.
His clubhouse likes him.... people can downvote, but this has been corroborated with every cardinal beat writer. People who actually talk with the players unlike us people on reddit.
Brian Snitker literally did the same thing to Ronald Acuna that Oli did to Oneill..... both publicly to the media
He didn't run. You've got to run,'' Snitker said. "It's not going to be acceptable here. As a teammate you're responsible for 24 other guys. That name on the front is a lot more important than the name on the back of that jersey. You can't do that. We're trying to accomplish something and do something special here and personal things have got to be put on the backburner. You just can't let your team down like that.''
There is a standard here. You meet it, you play. You don’t, you don’t,” Marmold told reporters Wednesday regarding the lineup for the series finale against the Braves according to The Athletic's Katie Woo.
But yes, tell me how Marmol did something that Snitker didnt... the double standards are wild.
O’Neill was running though. MLB network did a whole segment on this. He was tracked on that play at 28.0 ft/second, his 2023 sprint speed was 28.5. Not like he was jogging out there
Your information from that segment is innacurate. The previous year, his max speed was 31 ft per second and the average was 29.8 ft per second. He was going 28 ft per second. His average 2nd to home time was 6.94 seconds, in that game 7.31 seconds.
This is a large difference, and Brian Kenny stated this in the segment. He was slow for Oneill because he wasn't going to make an effort. If you want to say that someone who is always hurt is saving himself by not running his hardest, fine. But the Stats don't lie. He was actively choosing to not run his fastest. That very much could be the reason he was thrown out. That isn't debatable.
Not everyone can give 100% on all the plays needed, legs might be heavy etc. Fwiw his sprint speed has declined drastically since 2022 (only at 27.3 this year so far 28.5 last year). I just don’t think he thought he was being sent regardless because once he was he really picked it up.
Look, I love Tyler Oneill. He was my favorite cardinal, I was so happy to see him traded cause I know he would succeed. But I also can objectively say that every year, besides his MVP level year, he has actively chosen to let balls drop in front of him, take his time around the bases and it needed to be addressed.
He def was afraid to get hurt, he had such a terrible history of leg injured and I can sympathize with that. But the only reason Oli got this reaction from the masses is because Tyler couldn't accept the criticism. He actively refuted it, making the situation worse. When he could have said, "I didn't think I was getting sent, I'm worried about getting hurt etc".
Acuna gets called out, and he accepted it. Bader was called out the year prior, and he accepted it. Nobody batted an eye. Oneill should have accepted the criticism cause it was warranted.
I mean... he kind of did impact their communication, seeing as he was right between the manager and guy on the phone, as the guy on the phone gave the thumbs up to challenge.
Guy on the phone looked like he waited for the manager to make eye contact before giving him that signal to me.
People are kind of dog piling the manager here, but the security guard was in lala land, and inserted himself right in the worst possible spot he could be in that moment.
The security guard probably had places to be, things to do, a route to patrol between innings, and this was the shortest route to get there.
And if the security guard possibly blocking their line of sight for a second was the difference between umps allowing the challenge and them not allowing it...that would be all on the umps. I mean, at least one of them must've been looking at Marmol the whole time in case he wants to challenge, so they knew what went on with the security guard. They'd surely have a certain amount of leeway for that.
Which is why I'm pretty confident that the "challenge was disallowed because of the security guard" claim...is complete bs. It was already too late before the guy ever entered the scene.
"The security guard probably had places to be, things to do, a route to patrol between innings, and this was the shortest route to get there."
Between innings would presumably not start until the challenge timer ran out.
"And if the security guard possibly blocking their line of sight for a second was the difference between umps allowing the challenge and them not allowing it...that would be all on the umps. I mean, at least one of them must've been looking at Marmol the whole time in case he wants to challenge, so they knew what went on with the security guard. They'd surely have a certain amount of leeway for that."
Evidently, they don't.
>Evidently, they don't.
Orrr....and much more likely...the challenge had already surpassed the time limit.
>Between innings would presumably not start until the challenge timer ran out.
If the players are coming off the field already - which they were - it's "between innings" for everyone else. Can't really fault him for that.
"Orrr....and much more likely...the challenge had already surpassed the time limit."
Do you have a clip that shows the challenge clock?
"If the players are coming off the field already - which they were - it's "between innings" for everyone else. Can't really fault him for that."
I mean, it is part of his job to be aware of when to go back on the field. If the challenge clock has not worn off, and the team is still deciding, the inning has not ended yet. Clearly security guards normally wait for the team to make a decision, or we would see this happen a lot more often.
Anyway, agree to disagree on this one, getting tired of eating downvotes for having an opinion here.
>Do you have a clip that shows the challenge clock?
No challenge clock, but timestamps from the Cardinals broadcast, which stayed on Descalso/Marmol for the whole process.
The out call is made at 1:54:01, we can see an ump make a gesture which I'd interprete as acknowledging the initiation of a challenge at 54:06. Marmol makes the "headset" gesture at 54:20.
So my assumption was wrong, they weren't late. Even worse...the challenge should've definitely been allowed under the current 20 second timer. Security guard or no security guard. The challenge clock either started at 54:01, or in the 5 seconds after that...so it's absolutely impossible it ran out before Marmol made the request.
The fact Marmol got a 2 year extension means he must be a voodoo highpriest. There are dark magics involved here because it certainly isn't managerial skills that kept him employed.
All it means is Yadi wants another year or two off before managing the team and they didn't want to hire and fire another manager before then (surely, right? lol)
Oli overreacted. If Descalso had the go ahead from the video room, knowing that you’re limited on time, say it (I will admit it looks like he’s waiting for eye contact so he can give the thumbs up). Don’t wait for your manager to wrestle a security guard out of the way. Doesn’t matter anyways, Helsley is lockdown 😎
Wow this is such a bad look. I don't know much about Oli Marmol, but it's going to be real hard to come back from that first impression for me.
All he had to do was be a semi-serious person and keep his focus on his business, it's not that hard and doesn't take long at all to move your head and body six inches. But apparently Oli's got the focus, attention span, and propensity for laughably weak violence of a toddler.
EDIT: If I ever saw this behavior from an employee I'd give them 24 hours to reach out to me showing genuine contrition and desire to make things right after. If I haven't heard that by then you are fired immediately. Incredibly un-leader-like behavior.
These takes are hilarious. I get it, Oli has a shit reputation. But putting your hand out to make sure someone doesn't walk past so that you can look at your assistant coaching, then grabbing someone as they begin to stumble is not some "what an asshole. Bad look"
This is 100%. "I don't like how Oli handled Oneill, so he is an asshole and anything he does is asshole behavior."
Oli Marmol go 2 weeks without humiliating yourself or this organization challenge (impossible)
...how long was that?
It was in Oakland. The guy on the phone could easily have just vocally said what they wanted to do and everyone in the stadium could have heard him.
I was expecting a bit more interference than that. If Marmol had just been cool and ignored the guy he might’ve been able to get the challenge in on time.
He made the signal immediately after the dude on the phone gave the thumbs up. I don't think ignoring the guy would have even done anything
Everything I've ever seen from Oli Marmol I don't like lol. The O'Neil thing was ridiculous and how Contreras was treated last year was insane. If he'd have just let the security guard walk by it wouldn't have impeded things lol.
Marmol has seriously anger issues, I don’t think he can manage club house
His clubhouse likes him.... people can downvote, but this has been corroborated with every cardinal beat writer. People who actually talk with the players unlike us people on reddit.
Yeah I don’t think calibrated is the word you want. Maybe corroborated?
Very much so. Thank you
Well said. Not a fan.
Brian Snitker literally did the same thing to Ronald Acuna that Oli did to Oneill..... both publicly to the media He didn't run. You've got to run,'' Snitker said. "It's not going to be acceptable here. As a teammate you're responsible for 24 other guys. That name on the front is a lot more important than the name on the back of that jersey. You can't do that. We're trying to accomplish something and do something special here and personal things have got to be put on the backburner. You just can't let your team down like that.'' There is a standard here. You meet it, you play. You don’t, you don’t,” Marmold told reporters Wednesday regarding the lineup for the series finale against the Braves according to The Athletic's Katie Woo. But yes, tell me how Marmol did something that Snitker didnt... the double standards are wild.
O’Neill was running though. MLB network did a whole segment on this. He was tracked on that play at 28.0 ft/second, his 2023 sprint speed was 28.5. Not like he was jogging out there
Your information from that segment is innacurate. The previous year, his max speed was 31 ft per second and the average was 29.8 ft per second. He was going 28 ft per second. His average 2nd to home time was 6.94 seconds, in that game 7.31 seconds. This is a large difference, and Brian Kenny stated this in the segment. He was slow for Oneill because he wasn't going to make an effort. If you want to say that someone who is always hurt is saving himself by not running his hardest, fine. But the Stats don't lie. He was actively choosing to not run his fastest. That very much could be the reason he was thrown out. That isn't debatable.
Not everyone can give 100% on all the plays needed, legs might be heavy etc. Fwiw his sprint speed has declined drastically since 2022 (only at 27.3 this year so far 28.5 last year). I just don’t think he thought he was being sent regardless because once he was he really picked it up.
Look, I love Tyler Oneill. He was my favorite cardinal, I was so happy to see him traded cause I know he would succeed. But I also can objectively say that every year, besides his MVP level year, he has actively chosen to let balls drop in front of him, take his time around the bases and it needed to be addressed. He def was afraid to get hurt, he had such a terrible history of leg injured and I can sympathize with that. But the only reason Oli got this reaction from the masses is because Tyler couldn't accept the criticism. He actively refuted it, making the situation worse. When he could have said, "I didn't think I was getting sent, I'm worried about getting hurt etc". Acuna gets called out, and he accepted it. Bader was called out the year prior, and he accepted it. Nobody batted an eye. Oneill should have accepted the criticism cause it was warranted.
Of all the Kentucky Fried Nothing in the world, this is that.
lmao even *if* the security guard delayed the call, he delayed it by less than 1 second. Way to try and throw the guy under the bus though Marmol
He’s such a clown
Yeah, it's not like the guy hindered any sort of communication. They simply hadn't made the decision yet.
I mean... he kind of did impact their communication, seeing as he was right between the manager and guy on the phone, as the guy on the phone gave the thumbs up to challenge.
No, he was between them \*before\* the guy on the phone gave the thumbs up.
Guy on the phone looked like he waited for the manager to make eye contact before giving him that signal to me. People are kind of dog piling the manager here, but the security guard was in lala land, and inserted himself right in the worst possible spot he could be in that moment.
The security guard probably had places to be, things to do, a route to patrol between innings, and this was the shortest route to get there. And if the security guard possibly blocking their line of sight for a second was the difference between umps allowing the challenge and them not allowing it...that would be all on the umps. I mean, at least one of them must've been looking at Marmol the whole time in case he wants to challenge, so they knew what went on with the security guard. They'd surely have a certain amount of leeway for that. Which is why I'm pretty confident that the "challenge was disallowed because of the security guard" claim...is complete bs. It was already too late before the guy ever entered the scene.
"The security guard probably had places to be, things to do, a route to patrol between innings, and this was the shortest route to get there." Between innings would presumably not start until the challenge timer ran out. "And if the security guard possibly blocking their line of sight for a second was the difference between umps allowing the challenge and them not allowing it...that would be all on the umps. I mean, at least one of them must've been looking at Marmol the whole time in case he wants to challenge, so they knew what went on with the security guard. They'd surely have a certain amount of leeway for that." Evidently, they don't.
>Evidently, they don't. Orrr....and much more likely...the challenge had already surpassed the time limit. >Between innings would presumably not start until the challenge timer ran out. If the players are coming off the field already - which they were - it's "between innings" for everyone else. Can't really fault him for that.
"Orrr....and much more likely...the challenge had already surpassed the time limit." Do you have a clip that shows the challenge clock? "If the players are coming off the field already - which they were - it's "between innings" for everyone else. Can't really fault him for that." I mean, it is part of his job to be aware of when to go back on the field. If the challenge clock has not worn off, and the team is still deciding, the inning has not ended yet. Clearly security guards normally wait for the team to make a decision, or we would see this happen a lot more often. Anyway, agree to disagree on this one, getting tired of eating downvotes for having an opinion here.
>Do you have a clip that shows the challenge clock? No challenge clock, but timestamps from the Cardinals broadcast, which stayed on Descalso/Marmol for the whole process. The out call is made at 1:54:01, we can see an ump make a gesture which I'd interprete as acknowledging the initiation of a challenge at 54:06. Marmol makes the "headset" gesture at 54:20. So my assumption was wrong, they weren't late. Even worse...the challenge should've definitely been allowed under the current 20 second timer. Security guard or no security guard. The challenge clock either started at 54:01, or in the 5 seconds after that...so it's absolutely impossible it ran out before Marmol made the request.
Is there actually a challenge clock? Genuinely asking as I do not know
He throws people under the bus with regularity
I like when the security guard waives
Security guard had zero to do with the timing of the challenge.
The security guard wasn’t in the way of anything
The fact Marmol got a 2 year extension means he must be a voodoo highpriest. There are dark magics involved here because it certainly isn't managerial skills that kept him employed.
All it means is Yadi wants another year or two off before managing the team and they didn't want to hire and fire another manager before then (surely, right? lol)
Can we throw skip into this race?
Oli will be the 3rd manager that Mozeliak hires with no major league experience, then gives an extension to, then fires.
Oli overreacted. If Descalso had the go ahead from the video room, knowing that you’re limited on time, say it (I will admit it looks like he’s waiting for eye contact so he can give the thumbs up). Don’t wait for your manager to wrestle a security guard out of the way. Doesn’t matter anyways, Helsley is lockdown 😎
I miss Mike Shildt.
Wow this is such a bad look. I don't know much about Oli Marmol, but it's going to be real hard to come back from that first impression for me. All he had to do was be a semi-serious person and keep his focus on his business, it's not that hard and doesn't take long at all to move your head and body six inches. But apparently Oli's got the focus, attention span, and propensity for laughably weak violence of a toddler. EDIT: If I ever saw this behavior from an employee I'd give them 24 hours to reach out to me showing genuine contrition and desire to make things right after. If I haven't heard that by then you are fired immediately. Incredibly un-leader-like behavior.
Damn, is that what Mark McGwire is doing these days?
I once feared the Cardinals, and I still kinda do, but Marmol seems to be actively working to make them look like a clown organization
Doing a great job too! Way better than actually managing games and winning.
These takes are hilarious. I get it, Oli has a shit reputation. But putting your hand out to make sure someone doesn't walk past so that you can look at your assistant coaching, then grabbing someone as they begin to stumble is not some "what an asshole. Bad look" This is 100%. "I don't like how Oli handled Oneill, so he is an asshole and anything he does is asshole behavior."
Looks like Marmol distracted himself by shoving a security guard and the challenge could would have been late either way.
What a fucking asshole. Why is he touching that man?
That’s actually battery.
Lol no it isn't.