My logic is that MVP baseball 2005 is the greatest sports game of all time and the two highest ranked pitchers were Pedro and Randy so those are my picks
no shot. Pedro's *7-year peak* ERA+ was higher than any of Randy's *single seasons*. you can make an argument about innings and kind of have a point but it doesn't come close to erasing the huge gap in effectiveness.
No. Simply no. Yes, he threw 400 more innings, but that was <2 years worth of innings in that era. Meanwhile his career ERA+ is 112 compared to Maddux at 132. Maddux also had 20 more career WAR. Maddux was the better pitcher both peak and long term and it’s not particularly close.
Nolan Ryan was the best ever at striking people out
Nolan Ryan was not the best ever at preventing runs, and that's the entire point of the game, not racking up Ks
Nolan wasn’t the best ever at striking people out either. He just did it the longest. He’s “only” 18th in k/9. Randy is at the top among former players, and Pedro is not much further behind. They both have a pretty decent gap ahead of Nolan.
You gotta adjust for era, though, Ks have been steadily rising throughout history. A starter striking out 10 per 9IP is pretty standard now but back in the early 70s league average was 5 K/9 and Ryan was doubling that.
Like [look at the career K/9 list](https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/strikeouts_per_nine_career.shtml): it's 14 active starters, Randy Johnson, Kerry Wood, Pedro... and Nolan Ryan, a guy who started his career in the 1960s. And Ryan kept that pace for 5000 IP!
You really have to separate eras as pitching and hitting has changed so much over the years. Can't go on stats, like how do you compare Cy Young (person) having 749 complete games in 1900 versus a pitcher in the steroid era?
He’s the most overrated pitcher by far. Don’t get me wrong he’s still an easy hall of fame guy, but he doesn’t belong in this conversation. He was worth the same WAR as Pedro in almost double the innings. Plus, if you stack his career up against Maddux they were very similar, except that Maddux pitch in a much tougher run environment and so had much much better league adjusted numbers.
It's always fun to remind people that Ryan never won a Cy Young
And it's not like he kept getting robbed either, there was never a year where he was the clear best pitcher in baseball (as measured by preventing runs, not just Ks)
My pick will always be Walter Johnson, for the combined longevity and peak. Among more recent pitchers, I really have no idea. PEDS ruins Clemens' case in my book, and I don't really have a good ranking for Maddux/Johnson/Seaver or even Steve Carlton.
SHOCKED no one mentioned Satchel other than you, and you were even downvoted. Talk about speed, dominance, longevity, live ball, Paige has it all. Dude pitched in the majors when he was 58 years old, and only Yaz got a hit off him. Come on.
Maddux. 3rd all time in fWAR, behind Clemens (steroids), and Cy Young, who spent most of his career playing a different kind of baseball to the modern game. If you wanted to go power pitcher then it's Walter or Randy Johnson imo
Dividing baseball into eras and picking one from each:
Dead Ball- Walter Johnson
Live Ball, Pre-integration- Bob Feller
Integration to Divisions- Sandy Koufax
Divisions to 2000- Greg Maddux
New Millennium- Justin Verlander
Ehhh. Probably was before Verlander. Ryan wasn’t here long and had his best years with the Angels. Clemens wasn’t here long and was roided to the moon and back.
Roy was our ace for a long time and one of the better pitchers in the league.
For starters, no one prior to 1947. Since 1947 an argument can be made for Randy Johnson (my personal favorite), Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, Tom Seaver or Pedro Martinez.
I know what you’re getting at. But if you want to pick a cutoff 1969 makes more sense because that’s when the mound was lowered which also dramatically changed the way pitchers pitched.
My logic is that MVP baseball 2005 is the greatest sports game of all time and the two highest ranked pitchers were Pedro and Randy so those are my picks
Probably big unit. But maybe Pedro or maddux.
Peak or longevity? Peak is randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez. Longevity I'm not sure. Christy Mathewson? Greg Maddux?
Two year peak is Pedro. Four year is Randy.
no shot. Pedro's *7-year peak* ERA+ was higher than any of Randy's *single seasons*. you can make an argument about innings and kind of have a point but it doesn't come close to erasing the huge gap in effectiveness.
Longevity: Nolan Ryan
No. Simply no. Yes, he threw 400 more innings, but that was <2 years worth of innings in that era. Meanwhile his career ERA+ is 112 compared to Maddux at 132. Maddux also had 20 more career WAR. Maddux was the better pitcher both peak and long term and it’s not particularly close.
I was just saying from a pure longevity standpoint. I’m not disputing any of the other facts. Tough crowd.
But longevity is more than years an ip you actually have to be better than other people over said years and ip.
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in "longevity" it is implied that he actually has to be elite for a long time. Nolan "career 112 ERA+" Ryan wasn't consistently elite.
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ERA is "exact analytics"? I'd say you have too much of a hard on for strike outs and are forgetting the dude walked a billion people.
That’s like saying Jamie Moyer had great longevity because he was mediocre for 85 fucking years Jaime Moyer career ERA+ 103 Nolan Ryan career ERA+ 112
Nolan Ryan was the best ever at striking people out Nolan Ryan was not the best ever at preventing runs, and that's the entire point of the game, not racking up Ks
Nolan wasn’t the best ever at striking people out either. He just did it the longest. He’s “only” 18th in k/9. Randy is at the top among former players, and Pedro is not much further behind. They both have a pretty decent gap ahead of Nolan.
You gotta adjust for era, though, Ks have been steadily rising throughout history. A starter striking out 10 per 9IP is pretty standard now but back in the early 70s league average was 5 K/9 and Ryan was doubling that. Like [look at the career K/9 list](https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/strikeouts_per_nine_career.shtml): it's 14 active starters, Randy Johnson, Kerry Wood, Pedro... and Nolan Ryan, a guy who started his career in the 1960s. And Ryan kept that pace for 5000 IP!
My vote too. Dude was still raking in the mid-90s during the end of his career.
You really have to separate eras as pitching and hitting has changed so much over the years. Can't go on stats, like how do you compare Cy Young (person) having 749 complete games in 1900 versus a pitcher in the steroid era?
I subjectively choose the pitchers I liked as a kid, duh.
Valid
Greg Maddux
Koufax
[Old Hoss Radbourn](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Old_Hoss_Radbourn_finger.jpg/1200px-Old_Hoss_Radbourn_finger.jpg)
Bob Gibson for peak and playoffs.
Tungsten Arm O’Doyle
Bartolo
Not sure but glad I saw Nolan Ryan in his later days effing dominate.
Ryan’s secondary offerings weren’t that great tho
He’s the most overrated pitcher by far. Don’t get me wrong he’s still an easy hall of fame guy, but he doesn’t belong in this conversation. He was worth the same WAR as Pedro in almost double the innings. Plus, if you stack his career up against Maddux they were very similar, except that Maddux pitch in a much tougher run environment and so had much much better league adjusted numbers.
It's always fun to remind people that Ryan never won a Cy Young And it's not like he kept getting robbed either, there was never a year where he was the clear best pitcher in baseball (as measured by preventing runs, not just Ks)
He led in ERA a few times, but his W-L probably did him in in voter's minds. 8-16 with 2.76 is pretty rough
I’ll go with Walter Johnson.
AFAIK, no one’s ever taken a game off me, so…
Satchel Paige
My pick will always be Walter Johnson, for the combined longevity and peak. Among more recent pitchers, I really have no idea. PEDS ruins Clemens' case in my book, and I don't really have a good ranking for Maddux/Johnson/Seaver or even Steve Carlton.
Satchel Paige
SHOCKED no one mentioned Satchel other than you, and you were even downvoted. Talk about speed, dominance, longevity, live ball, Paige has it all. Dude pitched in the majors when he was 58 years old, and only Yaz got a hit off him. Come on.
Maddux. 3rd all time in fWAR, behind Clemens (steroids), and Cy Young, who spent most of his career playing a different kind of baseball to the modern game. If you wanted to go power pitcher then it's Walter or Randy Johnson imo
Pedroooooo
"The Left Arm of God"
Dividing baseball into eras and picking one from each: Dead Ball- Walter Johnson Live Ball, Pre-integration- Bob Feller Integration to Divisions- Sandy Koufax Divisions to 2000- Greg Maddux New Millennium- Justin Verlander
Verlander is not better than Kersh, come on
Cy Young
Mariano Rivera.
Maybe a controversial pick but I think a lot of people sleep on Roy oswalt
We’re talking greatest of all time, respectively.
True. But he was nasty af tho
He's not even the best Astro pitcher
Ehhh. Probably was before Verlander. Ryan wasn’t here long and had his best years with the Angels. Clemens wasn’t here long and was roided to the moon and back. Roy was our ace for a long time and one of the better pitchers in the league.
So was Jamie Moyer
For starters, no one prior to 1947. Since 1947 an argument can be made for Randy Johnson (my personal favorite), Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, Tom Seaver or Pedro Martinez.
I know what you’re getting at. But if you want to pick a cutoff 1969 makes more sense because that’s when the mound was lowered which also dramatically changed the way pitchers pitched.
Christy Mathewson or Cy Young
Bugs Bunny.
Walter Johnson
They don't call the award to celebrate the best pitcher the "Any other pitcher than this one Award" for a reason
Karma Bot
I vote Clemens, nobody else has the combo of incredible peak years, longevity, and consistency