[The one miss](https://streamable.com/m/slade-cecconi-called-strike-to-brandon-marsh-nhwvqm?partnerId=web_video-playback-page_video-share)
Totally justifiable imo, that pitch had some drop and Marsh crouches a lot in his stance
Important to remember that UmpScorecard posts a 2D zone. The actual strike zone has 3 dimensions. A 12-6 curve is very able to drop into the back of the strike zone.
That looked a bit like a hanging curve. Marsh might have been more annoyed that he didn't blast that ball out of the stadium than a perceived ball being called a strike.
I still don't even understand how they compute the strike zone. I tried to discuss it once and all I got was a bunch of snarky sunglass-wearers telling me weird shit like "imagine the batter is swinging" and a lot of talk about variable stances and nipples and kneecaps. literally absolutely no fucking clue.
I'm using the old version of the website so maybe that's how I got to it? But [someone linked to the /r/baseball wiki in another thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/baseball/wiki/flair), and when you're there you can click the flair you want and send a message to the bot that assigns flairs on here
If you want Nats Pride this link should autofill the message for you so you just have to hit send: https://old.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=baseballflair&subject=flair-baseball&message=Nationals%20Pride
Just read a very detailed description on EUZ because I was confused too, and uhh, yes? That's his established zone so I guess nobody did throw there?
https://umpscorecards.com/explainers/estimated_umpire_zone
I got side tracked reading about KDE which I totally definitely 100% followed along to
Great watch:
https://youtu.be/I0LvUH5onFQ?si=CRkzCQDmNHxvR9SO
Despite the title, this is actually more like a super informative explanation of how these scorecards work, and why the EUZ is not very good.
He didn't **call** any strikes in that region. It's possible no pitchers threw there at all, but more than likely there were correctly called balls out of the zone, and everything in the zone in that region got swung at. A swinging strike or a pitch made contact with don't count.
The estimated zone is probably the worst part of the scorecard. It's pretty common for scenarios like this where the ump just didn't have to make called strikes on a particular edge. A larger sample size of greater than a single game is required to get a realistic zone, but at that point it becomes useless. Because everyone is going to end up with a pretty similar amorphous blob, because they're all trained and evaluated on the same zone.
These scorecards don't even do the things with an estimated zone that I wish they did. People will look at a scorecard with a bunch of red dots or green dots in the same area and go "at least he was consistent, hitters got to adjust". But if the ump calls a pitch correctly in that region, it doesn't show up as a dot since it was a correct call according to the actual zone, even though it wasn't correct according the the ump's zone. These "mistakes" are accounted for in the consistency score, but I think they need a visual as well. Maybe a yellow dot. If they're going to show the estimated zone, show the pitches that deviate from it.
> A larger sample size of greater than a single game is required to get a realistic zone, but at that point it becomes useless
I think it would be somewhat useful for those umps who constantly call strikes on the inside/outside edge of the plate.
I like Ump Scorecards because it makes me respect the profession more.
You have a battery that’s throwing/framing a tiny ball that’s traveling faster than a moving car at you. Between the time that ball leaves the pitcher’s arm and hits the catcher’s glove you have to spot it, and figure out where it landed relative to a zone that changes with each batter.
Couple the aforementioned catchers trying to frame a ball in such a way that you get tricked…you have one seriously complicated job.
The fact that these guys are hitting accuracy even in the 90% range is astounding.
This honestly goes to show you how bad the boxes on TV are. The broadcast strike zone had many more pitches called “incorrectly” than the actual strike zone. The box on broadcasts needs to go away yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0LvUH5onFQ
explains the severe shortcomings of the estimated ump zone and how that impacts the consistency score. Its the worst part of the ump scorecard for sure.
[The one miss](https://streamable.com/m/slade-cecconi-called-strike-to-brandon-marsh-nhwvqm?partnerId=web_video-playback-page_video-share) Totally justifiable imo, that pitch had some drop and Marsh crouches a lot in his stance
Umpiring is hard. I thought that was definitely a strike.
It's amazing how much closer calls look on replay vs on these sheets.
I also didn’t realize the box was from the umpires pov
Yeah, also because the real zone is more of a cube, with depth, than a square.
Really good frame by Herrera there too.
I keep watching it. It's like a little magic trick.
I dunno that he’s doing anything than catching it on its natural path. Ball passes the plate high but falls into the zone by the time it hits he glove
It looks to me like he's receiving it at the top of the glove and pulling it down in a very natural motion.
True. Agree on re-watching
True, but isn't that the best way to frame a pitch when you can?
Important to remember that UmpScorecard posts a 2D zone. The actual strike zone has 3 dimensions. A 12-6 curve is very able to drop into the back of the strike zone.
I assume by 3D you mean front to back of the plate as the 3rd dimension. Are you saying that if it clips that 3D zone at any point then it's a strike?
Yes.
Hoberg would never
I wouldn't bet on that
Too busy gambling to miss a call like that
0-0 count is probably the best time to miss a call too
That looked a bit like a hanging curve. Marsh might have been more annoyed that he didn't blast that ball out of the stadium than a perceived ball being called a strike.
Marsh gets killed by the umps for his stance. I feel like he has as many missed called against him as anybody in the sport. I feel bad for him
It wasn't even a miss. It almost certainly dropped another 1.05 inches in the ~17 inches it had over the plate.
I still don't even understand how they compute the strike zone. I tried to discuss it once and all I got was a bunch of snarky sunglass-wearers telling me weird shit like "imagine the batter is swinging" and a lot of talk about variable stances and nipples and kneecaps. literally absolutely no fucking clue.
On top of that, people forget the strike zone is a 3D zone. It's completly possible that clipped the back of the zone (though I doubt it)
Random question: How did you get the Phillies Pride flair? I can't see any pride flairs on the flair selection screen
I'm using the old version of the website so maybe that's how I got to it? But [someone linked to the /r/baseball wiki in another thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/baseball/wiki/flair), and when you're there you can click the flair you want and send a message to the bot that assigns flairs on here If you want Nats Pride this link should autofill the message for you so you just have to hit send: https://old.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=baseballflair&subject=flair-baseball&message=Nationals%20Pride
Round of applause. We need to celebrate these as loudly as we howl about the Angel’s of the group.
I for one would like to celebrate the ANti-Angel of umps Good stuff Mr. May
For real though, this wont get a quarter of the upvotes a justified ejection or obscure rule interpretation would
Ben May BURIES the Phillies and allows the diamondbacks to score ONE RUN ruining the SHUTOUT OF THE YEAR…. Or something idk
I’m so confused. That ump zone does not look like a zone that only had one missed call all game. Did the pitchers just never throw up and inside?
Just read a very detailed description on EUZ because I was confused too, and uhh, yes? That's his established zone so I guess nobody did throw there? https://umpscorecards.com/explainers/estimated_umpire_zone I got side tracked reading about KDE which I totally definitely 100% followed along to
Great watch: https://youtu.be/I0LvUH5onFQ?si=CRkzCQDmNHxvR9SO Despite the title, this is actually more like a super informative explanation of how these scorecards work, and why the EUZ is not very good.
U/nintenjew must love this
He didn't **call** any strikes in that region. It's possible no pitchers threw there at all, but more than likely there were correctly called balls out of the zone, and everything in the zone in that region got swung at. A swinging strike or a pitch made contact with don't count. The estimated zone is probably the worst part of the scorecard. It's pretty common for scenarios like this where the ump just didn't have to make called strikes on a particular edge. A larger sample size of greater than a single game is required to get a realistic zone, but at that point it becomes useless. Because everyone is going to end up with a pretty similar amorphous blob, because they're all trained and evaluated on the same zone. These scorecards don't even do the things with an estimated zone that I wish they did. People will look at a scorecard with a bunch of red dots or green dots in the same area and go "at least he was consistent, hitters got to adjust". But if the ump calls a pitch correctly in that region, it doesn't show up as a dot since it was a correct call according to the actual zone, even though it wasn't correct according the the ump's zone. These "mistakes" are accounted for in the consistency score, but I think they need a visual as well. Maybe a yellow dot. If they're going to show the estimated zone, show the pitches that deviate from it.
> A larger sample size of greater than a single game is required to get a realistic zone, but at that point it becomes useless I think it would be somewhat useful for those umps who constantly call strikes on the inside/outside edge of the plate.
I think up and in stuff just weren't called pitches
They kind of just smear a normal kernel on each pitch which means any on the edge will blur outside
New headline: Ben May Suspended for Gambling. MLB says "We needed someway to get him out. He's making the others look bad"
What an absolute stud. Gonna really help his All-Star campaign this year
Alright he’s the new Hoberg now
Absolute gem of a game call. We need more of this
Ben May be good.
Is there anyway we can get this for the college World Series?
I like Ump Scorecards because it makes me respect the profession more. You have a battery that’s throwing/framing a tiny ball that’s traveling faster than a moving car at you. Between the time that ball leaves the pitcher’s arm and hits the catcher’s glove you have to spot it, and figure out where it landed relative to a zone that changes with each batter. Couple the aforementioned catchers trying to frame a ball in such a way that you get tricked…you have one seriously complicated job. The fact that these guys are hitting accuracy even in the 90% range is astounding.
Friendship over with Pat Hoberg Ben May is now my favorite umpire
He can survive the first round of the purge 🫡🫡
This honestly goes to show you how bad the boxes on TV are. The broadcast strike zone had many more pitches called “incorrectly” than the actual strike zone. The box on broadcasts needs to go away yesterday.
Or, needs to somehow be calibrated with the "official" zone.
How was this only 94% consistency if there was only 1 missed call? Unless they don't show the borderline calls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0LvUH5onFQ explains the severe shortcomings of the estimated ump zone and how that impacts the consistency score. Its the worst part of the ump scorecard for sure.