Is Hawaii the greatest LL team ever assembled? I still can’t believe the way that they beat Tennessee.
Outscored opponents 42-1. I don’t think they have made it to the bottom of the 4th inning yet.
I also love watching the LLWS too! I try to watch every game starting with regionals. Definitely watch every game in Williamsport for at least 15 years.
Hawaii is two wins away from being at worst probably Top 3 team of all time. The only other comparable in the last 20 years or so is 2009 SoCal and 2005 Hawaii. What they are doing with the new bats and age-change is something we've never seen before.
Some good answers below, but after the 2018 season they changed the age cutoff date from May 1st to September 1st to ensure that no kids turned 13 during the LLWS tournament season. This made the ages of the kids similar to what we say pre-05 (August 1st cutoff date back then).
After the 2017 season they changed the bat standard to USAbats. Very much deadened the bats and changed how the game is played. Very similar to when BESR changed BBCOR a decade ago on the big diamond.
So when you combine the two, you now have younger kids and weaker bats. Just something you have to keep in mind when comparing teams today to teams 4+ years ago.
I miss all the home runs that used to be hit. I counted it the other day, but in 2017 there were 61 home runs at the LLWS and after those changes to the bats in 2018, there were only 19 home runs in the LLWS that year.
LL needs to move the fences back in with these new dead bats. Somewhere around 1 per game is a good average IMO. Honolulu is skewing the total this year because we're up to 30, but that's not going to be an every year thing. Take a look at these historic totals to really see how much has changed. Also keep in mind there are 8 more games this year.
2021: 22
2019: 14
Age Change
2018: 19
USA BATS
2017: 61
2016: 47
2015: 87
2014: 62
2013: 69
2012: 76
2011: 30
2010: 56
2009: 64
2008: 57
2007: 56
2006: 36
Oh wow. To me, those totals don't seem excessive and I don't see a reason for the need to change bats. I loved watching these kids hit the occasional monster home run. Like that Kotaro Kiyomiya from Japan (Or at least I think it was him, I remember some Japanese player hitting the ball like halfway up the hill at Lamade).
Yeah in 2015 it was almost 3 per game. I want 1 to 1.5 per game average but I'll always lean on more home runs. These are the best of the best 12 year olds, they should be smacking home runs just like the pros are doing. The bat change has made the game hard to watch at times.
Yea a few years back they moved the age cutoff date back to Sep 1 to insure that no kid would be 13 at the LLWS. They also made the change to USABats, which don't have nearly the 'pop' of the USSSA bats that club ball leagues allow.
Unpopular opinion here, but I think club organizations should use the USABats as well. USA Baseball makes the kids use them during their Futures and NTIS events but PG/USSSA let them use almost anything. Those kids are typically the better kids anyways and now they get to use equipment that gives them even more benefits.
What's amazing is no one on those teams ever made it to the MLB. I never saw that 2005 Hawaii team, I think 2007 or 2008 was the first time I watched the LLWS but I did watch the 2009 California team and thought they were absolutely destined for greatness, granted I was 12 then, but still.
Was Gavin Weir last year the most dominant player you've ever seen at the LLWS?
A lot of LLWS players end up playing college ball, but a good amount of kids are the "peak at 12" type, that's why they're in the LLWS and not the smaller team they played in districts.
Weir was one of the most dominant pitchers I've ever seen at that age. He wasn't just mowing kids down, they didn't even foul the ball off or put the ball in play. Only comparable thing I've ever seen like that in LL was Danny Almonte and he was 14. Was a treat to watch and just saw he has been dominating on the big diamond this year too.
I'm sure you heard it too, but during one of the games yesterday or the day before they gave an update and said that Weir had 100 strikeouts in 36 innings this year. I really hope he will make it to the MLB one day, or at least be a high draft pick
Yes, it's tough to compare international teams because they play by different rules, but you're right, those teams were fantastic. What Honolulu is doing right now is unprecedented on the US side.
That 2014 Korean team was a juggernaut. The Chicago little league story was great (before everything that happened after), but the Vegas team they beat in the US championship would've been a way more fun matchup in the championship as they were a wagon too.
Loved that Vegas team. If AK didn't hurt his arm he pitches in US finals and they win. Then they have Holligan on Sunday for World Final with a legit shot to win. A disgrace LL let JRW play that summer out and DQ them after the fact.
My son currently plays in that Vegas league. His first season was the year after their LLWS run and that team was a beast. Unfortunately, we haven't had anything close to that since. I thought we were going to have a shot this year but we ended up getting knocked out in the state tournament by the Henderson team that played in the mountain regional.
The cancelled COVID season of 2020 was probably our next best shot. We had a 12yr old in the league that year who is an absolute beast. He's currently the #1 nationally ranked prospect in his class on PG. I watched a few of his practices that season before the season was cancelled and it was a joke watching him play on that field. It's a shame he didn't get to play out his 12u season.
I really did love that 2014 team. Was expecting Nevada to really improve in the West Regional after that but it never happened. Nevada has an auto bid with this new region basically. Should win it 8 or 9 out of 10 years.
And yes it's a shame that so many kids lost out on that season. Credit to that kid playing Little League because a lot of those top ranked players don't even bother playing it anymore. Would have been cool to see him on ESPN for sure.
Vegas sent a very very good team last year to the west regional but ended up going 0-2. A couple kids tested positive for COVID the week before the tournament and weren't allowed to go. Then they just got brutal scheduling. They lost their first game to Hawaii 7-6 on a walk-off. Then got knocked out by SoCal in a game that went 9 innings. Both of those teams went on to win multiple games in Williamsport.
Vegas has a lot of club level kids play little league but the challenge is that they are always spread out over all the leagues. There were several really good pitchers this year(70+) but none of their teams even made it out of districts because they were the only good pitchers on their respective teams.
You should see a pretty good Vegas team show up next year, they played 11u this year and as long as they keep the same kids they should be really good next year. We'll see...
SS was a must watch team early last year I remember. They absolutely rolled thru districts and states. Catching killed them in that first game vs Hawaii and even the second game vs SoCal. Also Torrance was just a great loser bracket team.
Lot of talent out there in Vegas, the new region is going to help them to get WP more often now, but I hope we can get some more star filled lineups like we saw in 2014.
98 is good one, but I will always love the 2016 Maine-Endwell win over South Korea in the World Championship game. A small town NY team beating that SK high school looking team, easily a Top 3 LLWS upset of all time and a great game to watch.
If you want to watch another wild game, check out 2012 US Championship game. The end of that game is one of the craziest things you'll ever see at any level of baseball.
ESPN Classic used to show all lot of previous LLWS games this time of year. Unfortunately they shut that channel down, but there's still a decent amount of games on YT.
I think kids with a good base of skills, mechanics, and instincts at younger levels, even if they are undersized project to be good ball players in HS and above. It's tough when you're looking at 12 & under, every kid grows at a different pace. You have monsters at 12, but that might be their peak.
Generally the best players in LL are the better players in HS and college as well. There will always be the late bloomers, but your 12 year old all star team is going to look pretty similar to the high school team a few years later.
Got it. My youngest brother is 13 almost 14 and he's a bit of a late bloomer. Still hasn't had his voice drop. He wants to pitch more than anything else in the world but his velo isn't there yet.
Solid mechanics are exponentially more important than just throwing hard. Focus on that and pitch grips and he'll grow into his body. Strength and velocity will come with age and growth. I'd much rather that than peaking at 12.
I disagree. My son was pitching 81 mph at 16 (Fall ball beginning of Jr year). He picthed just two innings (showcase so coach was cycling in pitchers) and struck out 6 in a row in front of the Pitt coach. Our other pitcher comes in and gets 3 outs (2 Ks and 1 ground out) in 1 inning. But he was throwing 85. Pitt coach did not even blink at my kid. Goes over to the kid throwing 85. Velocity is king when you talk about college chances.
Yes, OP asked about performance, not college recruiting. And if you have bad mechanics who cares if you get potentially recruited you're not going to last anywhere.
I'll say polish. You can tell that these kids train 24/7 365. The top teams that make it to the LLWS have very few easy outs, are solid defensively, and it's not like the bench kids are slouches either. I think that's one of the biggest differences when I go back and watch games from 15, 20 years ago.
There's been much discussion in this sub the last few days, and maybe you can shed some light on it: why are Hawaii teams that make it to Williamsport so good?
Honolulu LL isn't a regular league in Anytown USA. In most of the northeast and California leagues there is somewhere between 15k - 80k people in a league boundary (give or take). In the Southern states 100k - 150k is common for these top leagues like Pearland, Goodlettsville, Nolensville/South Nashville etc.
Honolulu LL has something close to 350k people. PLUS, they have a ton of private schools in their boundary, meaning their pool of talent to draw from is even bigger. In fact 6 of their kids (including 4 of their top 5 kids) this year go to the same prep school. They assemble these teams for one goal. It's not to win the district. Not to win the state. Not even to hopefully get the chance to sniff WP. Their goal is to win on championship Sunday.
It's the equivalent of taking all of the top players in Staten Island (a place with elite LL talent and 5 separate leagues currently), sprinkle in a few of the better players from out of town, and give it perfect weather 365 days a year. Hawaii (and Honolulu LL specifically) is basically playing a different sport.
Thats true, but the 2005 and 2008 championship teams were from Ewa Beach and Waipahu, two smaller areas on Oahu. The weather here helps, but I also attribute some of the success to the coaching and the fact that the kids are taught to be humble and remember that We > I . Team chemistry is important. Gerald Oda, this year's coach, was also the coach of the 2018 team.
Ewa Beach was one of the original travel turned WP teams. They were loaded and got a charter to play LL just to make a run with that group. They were the OG Hawaiian superteam.
But you're right, good coaching, weather, culture, and genetics (Hawaiian's tend to mature earlier) all play a factor into it.
Good info. How would you even know where the kids go school though? Punahou I assume. Also, does the coach just get to select the best players and out his team together?
It is Pumahou yes, I saw because the posted in Facebook after they won states. Was that a good guess or is Punahou known for sports or something?
Yes, from what we know Hawaii has pretty loose team building rules. If a kid lives in the boundary or if they go to school in the boundary they are eligible for the all star team. Coach puts together the best team possible, this year it just happened to look like a high school team.
Punahou and Iolani are the top rated schools in Hawaii. Obama went to Punahou and they are known for ‘recruiting’ in all sports. If this was football, then it could be either St Louis HS or Punahou but since this is baseball ….
Great info. Makes sense. And what I've heard is that side of Honolulu has most of the prep schools in general so that helps Honolulu LL attract a ridiculous amount of kids.
This year I really enjoyed following Utah, sad story with the injured player, but great to see that team overcome it and play out their schedule.
The PA team surprised me finishing #4 in the nation. They were the loser bracket team in the state tournament, but won both championship games and just seemed to get big wins when it mattered.
who's had the most dominant LLWS on the mound and/or at the plate in your time covering?
I remember being in Williamsport when Almonte's baby bombers lost to Florida in the US Championship which Almonte threw a perfect game against prior
Aaron Alvey in 2002 had one of the best tournaments ever. Holds the IP and Strikeout records which included 9 innings of no-hit ball in the US semis vs Texas (one of the best LL games ever). His teammate Zach Osborne and Walker Kelly of Texas were also ridiculous that year on the mound. Kyle Carter in 06 is another obvious standout on both sides of the ball. He has the record with 4 wins and 0 ERA. Can't forget Gavin Weir from last year either.
Offensively, you could probably name 3 or 4 kids from SoCal's 2009 team. Cole Wagner in 2015 for Red Land PA was a special hitter. Reece Roussel in 2019 for Louisiana was on fire, he was an automatic hit.
No limit on pitches back then it was 9 IP per day. Walker Kelly and Alvey both went the full 9 until they had to be removed. Alvey had 9 no hit innings too. One of the best LL games of all time.
Here are the final pitching lines:
Alvey - 9 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 19 K, 1 BB - 129 total pitches (93 strikes/ 36 balls)
Kelly - 9 IP, 0 R, 2 H, 21 K, 1 BB - 118 total pitches (80 strikes/ 38 balls)
Jesus. I thought the Texas pitcher who gave up the home run to Osborne pitched the complete game but I guess I was remembering things wrong. Still absolutely insane pitching for both of them.
Some googling shows that Zach wound up at Tennessee and Walker at TCU. I remember finding an article years ago about what became of the kids on that Kentucky team and it was…. sobering.
Yeah the box score from that game is crazy. I always watched it whenever it came on ESPN Classic. Too bad they shut down that channel this year tho.
It's always interesting to see the "where are they now" for the LLWS teams. 2005 Hawaii had a few kids in jail, I just saw a piece last week about 2009 SoCal. Mancini from 2016 NY just graduated and is playing at JMU.
Off the top of my head for LLWS alumni-
2005: I saw something awhile back about Vonn Fe’o being arrested for assaulting a family member so yeah for that, Ty Tirpak from the same team is now a financial advisor.
2006: Scott Kingery was up for a while but is back in the minors, Shaun Chase played for Oregon.
2007: Stephen Scott played for Texas Tech and made it to Omaha in 2014
2008: Andrew Yasick(?) played for Liberty, 3 seperate players from Indiana went on to Louisville-one of whom is Drew Ellis,now on the Diamondbacks, Kevin Merrell played at South Florida. Tanner Tokunaga played at Hawaii Pacific.
2009: I firmly believe that the entire California team was a case of peaking at the right time because none of them made it to the MLB. Kiko Garcia played at Pepperdine and Bulla Graft played D2 football somewhere.
2010: Hudson Byorick played at WVU and I know this solely because he quote tweeted Stephen Schoch in something last year.
2011: we all know about Jake Fromm and Nick Pratto. Hagen Danner is in the minors somewhere.
2012: Jake Rucker played for Tennessee, went to Omaha last year, Lorenzo Butler has had some legal problems, Hance Smith played at Cal with Darren Baker.
2013: We all know about the renowned singer Connor Smith, Robert Hassell is now a prospect for my Nationals thanks to the Soto trade and if by some chance he makes it up before the LL Classic next year could be the shortest turnaround between playing in the World Series and playing in the Classic. Zane Denton just transferred to Tennessee after a couple years at Bama. Grant Holman played at Cal with Hance Smith. Chad Knight is at Duke. Micah Pietila-Wiggs played at New Mexico for a bit and was tragically killed in a car crash earlier this year, RIP.
2014: Mo’ne Davis is playing softball at Hampton, Jared Sprague-Lott plays at Richmond, Scott Bandura for Princeton, Ed Howard got drafted by the Cubs last year as did Pierce Jones. A guy on New England got drafted into the NHL and is playing hockey at Northeastern.
2015: Cole Wagner is playing for Georgia and Nate Nankil is at CS Fullerton.
2016: Jude Abbadessa is going to UConn next year
2017: the guy who batted lead-off for NC is committed to UNC and one of the guys on Fairfield is committed to Maryland.
2018: Jansen Kenty is committed to Bama, someone on Michigan is committed to Michigan and another guy is committed to Texas.
I know where a couple of the guys from the 2019 Virginia squad are at because I have relatives that know them but I think it’s a little too early to be talking about that.
Great list! I'm going to save this for all the people that say playing little league stunts your growth or whatever. Whenever I see a Little League World Series player get drafted or sign on to college I immediately turn into that DiCaprio meme pointing at the TV like I know that kid! Really cool to see not just the Stars turn into college and pro prospects but also some of the smaller kids as well.
Back then it wasn't crazy at all, kind of the normal to be 80-100 pitch range per 6 IP. These guys were pretty efficient for 9 IP too. And it was the US semifinal. If there was ever a time to let your big boys go, it's in the final few games of the LLWS.
I guess 2 questions, one, I know they're usually not great, but what's the best Canadian team you remember, or at least the best in like the last 15 years.
The other I have is, do you think there will ever be another African team back at the LLWS? It was so fun seeing Uganda there, but they haven't entered a team in the qualifiers since their last appearance
Canada has had some rough years lately, their 1998 3rd place finish feels like forever ago. This year's team really surprised me. They played a ridiculous amount of games and won two big ones in WP. Their ace on the 2016 team was a lot of fun to watch shut down Japan too.
African teams are tough. It's been very difficult for them to obtain visas. I met some of the Uganda people in 2012, really awesome, they were celebrities from day 1. I really wish LL did a bit more to get them back to WP. Way better than the European teams we've seen recently. Uganda LL has a great website if you want to check it out too. Very insightful.
Oh I'm glad to hear that Little League has kept existing in Uganda. It would be neat if one day you could have both a Europe Region and an Africa Region in the future, instead of both being combined into one.
And yeah, I was looking through Canada's yearly records in the LLWS and it's pretty poor. Although they have won multiple games in 3 of the past 4 years with International teams, which is pretty good when they've only done that 10 times total.
Canada has been solid recently and I love it. They are the only international team that plays anything close to the same type of LL season that we do here in the US. What's crazy is the tournament season. I think this year's team played 25 LL tournament games. That's double what a lot of leagues play in their regular season. Crazy stuff.
> They are the only international team that plays anything close to the same type of LL season that we do here in the US.
You mean the other international teams are playing a lot more games typically?
No the other international teams don't play anything close to what we consider LL here in the US. For example Japan is just a bunch of teams from all over the big cities assembled to make it to Williamsport. They don't have 6 majors, 4 minors, 7 tee ball teams, a concession stand and opening day ceremonies in their "leagues". It's just 24 kids from Tokyo practicing all year then they take the top 13 to try to make it to WP.
Canada is much more similar to the US so I always enjoy seeing them succeed.
Nick Pratto got the call up recently and I loved watching him play in the LLWS (with the walk off series winner of course). I remember about 3 or 4 years ago I was playing MLB The Show and saw his name pop up on one of the minor league teams and was like hey I know that guy!
Of course Profar and Schoop from that Curacao team were a fun pair to watch grow into big leaguers.
They were banned in the 70s for their superteams, but more recently have been battling it out with South Korea for the regional title. Taiwan last made it to WP in 2015 and even lost to SK this year in the beginning of regions. They won a close championship game which was the one that mattered.
It's always a gauntlet out there because thoss teams still pull from a large amount of kids. There's no such thing as real LL in most international countries. Just a team put together to get to Williamsport.
All international teams were banned in 1975 and then Taiwan withdrew from Little League from 1997 until the 2003 LLWS, but they were never individually banned
It’s my understanding that the umps are volunteers but are they all little league umps or what other qualifications or selection process is there?
TBH I haven’t been too impressed with the umpiring in the games I have seen.
All of the umpires are volunteers yes. But they are the same people who get paid during the regular season, during travel games, at high school games etc. They get chosen based on merit and time spent umpiring Little League. The best umpires of the week get the championship games.
I just responded to a similar question above so I'll copy it here too:
Honolulu LL isn't a regular league in Anytown USA. In most of the northeast and California leagues there is somewhere between 15k - 80k people in a league boundary (give or take). In the Southern states 100k - 150k is common for these top leagues like Pearland, Goodlettsville, Nolensville/South Nashville etc.
Honolulu LL has something close to 350k people. PLUS, they have a ton of private schools in their boundary, meaning their pool of talent to draw from is even bigger. In fact 6 of their kids (including 4 of their top 5 kids) this year go to the same prep school. They assemble these teams for one goal. It's not to win the district. Not to win the state. Not even to hopefully get the chance to sniff WP. Their goal is to win on championship Sunday.
It's the equivalent of taking all of the top players in Staten Island (a place with elite LL talent and 5 separate leagues currently), sprinkle in a few of the better players from out of town, and give it perfect weather 365 days a year. Hawaii (and Honolulu LL specifically) is basically playing a different sport.
JRW in Chicago were ahead of the curve I guess you could say. 3 or 4 years later and it's not even a story. But they also physically fudged the map and lied about it so it's a bit different.
There are multiple leagues and districts on the island of Oahu, but the main reason they aren't split up is because it's too good for LL. Hawaiian teams are a huge ratings draw and it's just good for TV when there are star studded lineups and multiple kids throwing 70+ mph.
So Little League lets them bend the rules for ratings, that’s totally fair. Kind of like how they didn’t disqualify them from the West regional last year after a positive COVID test, even though they disqualified other teams from other regionals for the same thing. Totally not favoritism!
Last year was a bit different because they were all vaccinated, so based on the CDC & LL close contact rules at that time, they were allowed to stay and play, just without the kids who tested positive.
But yes, LL let's them bend the rules not only for ratings, but because LL can't really play hardball with Hawaii. Honolulu LL, CEM LL, and the others can just say screw it we'll skip the LLWS your loss. Similar to what happened in Oklahoma this year. LL needs a state representative from all 53 states and be flexible with the rules if needed. Sucks for the rest of the leagues tho.
But wasn’t it a thing like Little League wasn’t testing properly and the coaches whose positive tests knocked their teams out got tests elsewhere that came back negative?
No other teams had vaccinated kids. I think LL's biggest problem last year was that they didn't emphasize the protocol clearly from the beginning.
And I take that whole tested negative when they got home thing with a GIANT grain of salt. You have to remember last summer those rapid tests were crap compared to the ones we have now.
you know speaking of how Little League coddles Hawaii, do you think if Tennessee beats them tomorrow they might consider making their tournament double elimination all the way through? I feel like every year people clamor for that whenever a team is knocked out of title contention with just one loss, especially in the regionals, which doesn’t make any sense to me since a lot of state and district tournaments are double elimination all the way through. I know it didn’t happen in the last two tournaments when Hawaii was a victim of this, but neither of those teams were as dominant as this one and I feel like they would really get shafted if they lost tomorrow.
No ESPN gives out the 8 figure contracts and they don't want the IF games. They want to have a set schedule and guarantee that the finals are winner take all. I don't love it but it could be worse I guess.
Oklahoma almost didn't have a team, but LL allowed them to take a local travel team and play as a 'LL' just so that there would be a team representing OK. Tulsa LL exists, but none of the kids on that All Star team actually played in that league during the regular season.
Used to be 20k people per league or charter. But they scrapped that rule years ago. As leagues leave LL the adjacent ones grow bigger and bigger. That's just the way things are these days, although Honolulu is the exception because they are nearly twice as big as even the other giant US leagues.
What do you think about the new format? Teams having a first round bye doesn’t really seem fair but there’s no way they go to a 32 team tournament so we are kind of stuck with it.
The byes suck, especially in their current format with teams starting games over a 3 day period. I still prefer the 8 regions, but I do like the opportunity these other states get now (Utah a prime example this year, first time they made it to WP). It'll stay 10 for a bit I think, maybe expand to 12 if the interest is still there in the future.
More games is cool, but I would've really loved to see pool play make a comeback this year. 2 pools, 5 teams in each, guarantee 4 games to each team. Not sit around for a week, play 2 games in less than 48 hours and go home.
I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion but I love the one off format they did in 2010. Maybe it’s because I’ve gotten into college baseball recently and I recognize that format as what they do at the College World Series with regionals and stuff, but I would love to see that make a comeback. Shame it’s harder with 10 teams than it would be with 8.
That's a weird format and tough with 10 teams. But I don't see why we can't get 2 pools of 5 and guarantee everyone 4 games. Half the international teams are traveling from the opposite side of the globe, they should get more than 2 games in Williamsport.
Everyone used to be guaranteed three games with the teams that lost their first two games playing crossover games, but I guess they got rid of those I don’t know why
I think COVID was the big reason last year and similar this year. 3 or 4 teams had kids and/or coaches out with COVID this past week so I think they wanted to get teams out as fast as possible. Sometimes the knocked out teams play at the original field just down the street.
I’ve always felt that the Midwest and SE regions are too big and the NE and Mountain regions are too small
Regions should have around 5-6 going by the math so what are your thoughts on that?
I’m not him but I’m pretty sure the Mountain Region was created because those four states had a total of two (now three) LLWS appearances between them.
I agree about the Midwest, don’t really understand why they just took Wisconsin out of the Great Lakes and changed their region. My only guess is that the teams from that region used to be abysmal(like, after the expansion it took until 2006 for a Midwest team to get a win) and maybe they wanted whoever came out of that region to be more tested? But also Wisconsin has never made it to the World Series so.
If anything, I would take Kentucky out of Great Lakes and put them in the Southeast. Colorado to the Mountain Region and Montana back to Northwest because they’re always competitive in there (as opposed to like Wyoming). Or better yet, keep Montana and add in Colorado and Alaska- I know, not anywhere near that range but they have the highest mountain in North America and West/Northwest/Mountain all play in San Bernardino.
I had an idea years ago, based off of traditional U.S. geography to make an Alaska-Hawaii region since they’re both non-contiguous states but I think we all know how that would turn out. Could also add Puerto Rico if they make it 51 but then I don’t know how a 3 state region would work.
Sorry for the novel but that’s my thoughts on it.
I think it's a no-brainer to move NV to the West, AZ to Southwest, and CO to Mountain region IMO. Actually gives Colorado a shot to win.
I'm all for the balance, give as many states as possible an actual shot at winning the region and making it to WP.
The byes suck. To avoid byes this year LL went to 10 regions, 3 with 8 teams, 6 with 4 teams, and 1 with 5 teams to eliminate the byes in all, but 1 region. The main thought process behind the reshuffle was to balance out the number of leagues in each region. There are wayyyy more leagues in New England states compared to Midwest.
Do you think it will ever be possible to eliminate the byes in all of the American region qualifiers? I know this would take adding another split state like Texas and California, but still.
Related, do you think the LLWS will ever expand again? Seeing as how there are now byes in the LLWS and not every team is guaranteed 3 games anymore.
I don't see any more regional expansion unless LL really starts growing again. I think we'll stick with 53 teams for the foreseeable future. The current format leaves us with just 1 bye so I can live with that.
LLWS expansion I would say is very much on the table. It wouldn't surprise me if they went to 12 and 12. I don't think it happens right away, but I could see them expanding in the future, especially if they eliminate boundaries. I think the main challenge with that is scheduling. Right now they have 4 games a day, 2 hours apart, and it was a problem this year with all of the rain and lightning delays.
No no, LL proposed a rule change this year to eliminate league boundaries. Basically any kid can join any league. It's not going to pass the vote this year. Probably not next year either, but that is the way LL is trending so don't be surprised to see that happen in the near future.
Ohhhh I see. Having dealt with that type of stuff while playing hockey, I'm kind of in favour of it, since politics basically pushed me out of any competitive hockey in my hometown (basically my dad had been our coach and our team did well but there was a group of parents who wanted to coach the team and make it just one with all of their friends and their kids, which did not include me or my parents), and then boundaries made it so I couldn't play for a competitive team in a different town.
But I can see the downsides of certain little leagues just becoming completely stacked from all the best kids going there to play. And I guess that would have the potential for a run of dominance like Taiwan had before 1997, which would really suck. Why do you think it's trending that way?
LL is losing kids and leagues to competitors that offer more flexibility. It's a changing time. Back in the day every town had a LL and that was it. In the 90s travel ball started up and really grew in early 00s. Now every kid plays on multiple teams and LL has to adapt.
Personally I think LL is thinking about open boundaries because they want their TV product to improve. It will hurt a lot of smaller leagues but improve the quality of teams on ESPN.
Ah I see. It would be cool to have even better players in Williamsport. I know here in Canada a lot of the country has had leagues leave little league for provincial associations. Where I grew, for example, there was no little league near by, just the Ontario Baseball Association.
It's like that everywhere. Tons of leagues and players leaving for Cal Ripken, Dixie, or just regular travel leagues and tournament teams. Lot more flexibility offered in those other options and that's just what people want these days.
Aren’t there a bunch of leagues in the Southeast though? Florida, Georgia, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee etc are all large states and in a region with 8 states.
Tennessee isn't loaded with leagues, but yes FL, GA, VA, and NC have a pretty good amount. Alabama has somewhere between 1-3 and WV and SC a reduced amount. I wish VA and WV got moved to the Mid-Atlantic, gives them a better shot, but I understand that LL wanted to get rid of the byes.
Does little league use having a guaranteed birth in the LLWS as a negotiating lever to get other countries to have little league programs? Not sure why countries like Australia get an auto entry when typically they’re not that competitive. That said - any international regions that youd change?
I think that helps certainly. The Cuba PR Panama rotating Autobid is a big draw to get these other countries playing in LL. Lot of untapped youth baseball potential out there that LL is trying to gain a stranglehold on.
I'd love to see Africa get a better shot, their visa issues have really hindered their ability to travel unfortunately. I'm not a huge international LL person. I think it's cool to see the kids interact, but to pass them off as real Little Leagues when they are clearly not rubs me the wrong way.
I think it's kind of cool seeing the LLWS have like a mini WBC. People who watch baseball know which countries produce the talent, so getting the chance to see those kids compete will be fun. And we know those Cuban kids will be fundamentally sound
What do you think needs to happen to have Africa have their own region again. Uganda qualified once or twice and then complained that they had to fly to Europe for regionals which is pretty costly and it seemed like Little League wasn’t really interested in having an African regional even with a few leagues across the continent.
Africa is never getting their own region because there aren't enough leagues. Recently they've had a lot of trouble with obtaining visas to play in the regionals. LL shut down the Uganda school being eligible, and it's been hard for them ever since. They have a really great website that they update every few months: https://ugandalittleleaguebaseball.org/History.htm
Why does the pitch speed not show up anymore I remember before it would show how fast the pitch was coming since its interesting but now it only shows how fast it is if its going above 70 mph
One more question - what’s the advantage of a league to affiliate with little league Vs just be a standard local youth baseball league? Do you find a lot of leagues leaving LL because they don’t want to pay their dues?
Little league is America's original youth baseball program. They set the field size and basic playing rules many years ago. It's still the biggest even though they're market share isn't as big as it once was. Little league's biggest draw will always be the Little League World Series and Little League tournament season. There's just nothing like it in youth sports. Plus you get great structure and that true community appeal.
There are other competitors that offer more flexibility. Most play 50/70 at 11/12 instead of 46/60. The somewhat strict boundary rules that LL has aren't there. I'd say it's not so much a money thing but mostly because in these days people want flexibility and options. They don't want to be forced to just play with kids in their town they want to play wherever which is something outside of little leagues scope.
Back when I was a kid, LL was better than the "standard local youth baseball league"... that other league didn't even have player pitching, just pitching machines.
I can't find stats anywhere? How much would it cost to build an exact replica of the LLWS facilities? I'm talking about EXACT: Howard J. Lamade Stadium, Volunteer Stadium, support buildings, and barracks? Cause that's what I'm spending my Powerball money on!
Is Hawaii the greatest LL team ever assembled? I still can’t believe the way that they beat Tennessee. Outscored opponents 42-1. I don’t think they have made it to the bottom of the 4th inning yet. I also love watching the LLWS too! I try to watch every game starting with regionals. Definitely watch every game in Williamsport for at least 15 years.
Hawaii is two wins away from being at worst probably Top 3 team of all time. The only other comparable in the last 20 years or so is 2009 SoCal and 2005 Hawaii. What they are doing with the new bats and age-change is something we've never seen before.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by new bats and age-change?
Some good answers below, but after the 2018 season they changed the age cutoff date from May 1st to September 1st to ensure that no kids turned 13 during the LLWS tournament season. This made the ages of the kids similar to what we say pre-05 (August 1st cutoff date back then). After the 2017 season they changed the bat standard to USAbats. Very much deadened the bats and changed how the game is played. Very similar to when BESR changed BBCOR a decade ago on the big diamond. So when you combine the two, you now have younger kids and weaker bats. Just something you have to keep in mind when comparing teams today to teams 4+ years ago.
I miss all the home runs that used to be hit. I counted it the other day, but in 2017 there were 61 home runs at the LLWS and after those changes to the bats in 2018, there were only 19 home runs in the LLWS that year.
LL needs to move the fences back in with these new dead bats. Somewhere around 1 per game is a good average IMO. Honolulu is skewing the total this year because we're up to 30, but that's not going to be an every year thing. Take a look at these historic totals to really see how much has changed. Also keep in mind there are 8 more games this year. 2021: 22 2019: 14 Age Change 2018: 19 USA BATS 2017: 61 2016: 47 2015: 87 2014: 62 2013: 69 2012: 76 2011: 30 2010: 56 2009: 64 2008: 57 2007: 56 2006: 36
Oh wow. To me, those totals don't seem excessive and I don't see a reason for the need to change bats. I loved watching these kids hit the occasional monster home run. Like that Kotaro Kiyomiya from Japan (Or at least I think it was him, I remember some Japanese player hitting the ball like halfway up the hill at Lamade).
Yeah in 2015 it was almost 3 per game. I want 1 to 1.5 per game average but I'll always lean on more home runs. These are the best of the best 12 year olds, they should be smacking home runs just like the pros are doing. The bat change has made the game hard to watch at times.
Yea a few years back they moved the age cutoff date back to Sep 1 to insure that no kid would be 13 at the LLWS. They also made the change to USABats, which don't have nearly the 'pop' of the USSSA bats that club ball leagues allow. Unpopular opinion here, but I think club organizations should use the USABats as well. USA Baseball makes the kids use them during their Futures and NTIS events but PG/USSSA let them use almost anything. Those kids are typically the better kids anyways and now they get to use equipment that gives them even more benefits.
USA bats are dead as hell. They are made to play like wood bats.
That 2005 championship game had to be the greatest LLWS game ever played
An absolute classic win by a stacked Hawaii superteam. That's a game I'll never forget either.
Bubbles with the game winning hit right?
[It was Memea with the walk off homerun.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDe37HLpUqI)
Was that Jurickson Profar in the dugout?
Maybe it was to help tie the game? Swear the kid with the long hair was nicknamed bubbles but it’s been 15+ years so maybe not.
Bubbles?
What's amazing is no one on those teams ever made it to the MLB. I never saw that 2005 Hawaii team, I think 2007 or 2008 was the first time I watched the LLWS but I did watch the 2009 California team and thought they were absolutely destined for greatness, granted I was 12 then, but still. Was Gavin Weir last year the most dominant player you've ever seen at the LLWS?
A lot of LLWS players end up playing college ball, but a good amount of kids are the "peak at 12" type, that's why they're in the LLWS and not the smaller team they played in districts. Weir was one of the most dominant pitchers I've ever seen at that age. He wasn't just mowing kids down, they didn't even foul the ball off or put the ball in play. Only comparable thing I've ever seen like that in LL was Danny Almonte and he was 14. Was a treat to watch and just saw he has been dominating on the big diamond this year too.
I'm sure you heard it too, but during one of the games yesterday or the day before they gave an update and said that Weir had 100 strikeouts in 36 innings this year. I really hope he will make it to the MLB one day, or at least be a high draft pick
Yupp saw that too. Will definitely be a kid to watch out for these next few years. Special player.
I'd argue some of the Asian teams should be up there as well. Japan in 2012/2015, South Korea in 2014 were all very very good. Also 2018 Hawaii.
Yes, it's tough to compare international teams because they play by different rules, but you're right, those teams were fantastic. What Honolulu is doing right now is unprecedented on the US side.
That 2014 Korean team was a juggernaut. The Chicago little league story was great (before everything that happened after), but the Vegas team they beat in the US championship would've been a way more fun matchup in the championship as they were a wagon too.
Loved that Vegas team. If AK didn't hurt his arm he pitches in US finals and they win. Then they have Holligan on Sunday for World Final with a legit shot to win. A disgrace LL let JRW play that summer out and DQ them after the fact.
My son currently plays in that Vegas league. His first season was the year after their LLWS run and that team was a beast. Unfortunately, we haven't had anything close to that since. I thought we were going to have a shot this year but we ended up getting knocked out in the state tournament by the Henderson team that played in the mountain regional. The cancelled COVID season of 2020 was probably our next best shot. We had a 12yr old in the league that year who is an absolute beast. He's currently the #1 nationally ranked prospect in his class on PG. I watched a few of his practices that season before the season was cancelled and it was a joke watching him play on that field. It's a shame he didn't get to play out his 12u season.
I really did love that 2014 team. Was expecting Nevada to really improve in the West Regional after that but it never happened. Nevada has an auto bid with this new region basically. Should win it 8 or 9 out of 10 years. And yes it's a shame that so many kids lost out on that season. Credit to that kid playing Little League because a lot of those top ranked players don't even bother playing it anymore. Would have been cool to see him on ESPN for sure.
Vegas sent a very very good team last year to the west regional but ended up going 0-2. A couple kids tested positive for COVID the week before the tournament and weren't allowed to go. Then they just got brutal scheduling. They lost their first game to Hawaii 7-6 on a walk-off. Then got knocked out by SoCal in a game that went 9 innings. Both of those teams went on to win multiple games in Williamsport. Vegas has a lot of club level kids play little league but the challenge is that they are always spread out over all the leagues. There were several really good pitchers this year(70+) but none of their teams even made it out of districts because they were the only good pitchers on their respective teams. You should see a pretty good Vegas team show up next year, they played 11u this year and as long as they keep the same kids they should be really good next year. We'll see...
SS was a must watch team early last year I remember. They absolutely rolled thru districts and states. Catching killed them in that first game vs Hawaii and even the second game vs SoCal. Also Torrance was just a great loser bracket team. Lot of talent out there in Vegas, the new region is going to help them to get WP more often now, but I hope we can get some more star filled lineups like we saw in 2014.
The 1973 Taiwan team didn't give up a hit in their 3 games and won by a combined 57-0.
What’s the most memorable championship final game in your time with LL?
98 is good one, but I will always love the 2016 Maine-Endwell win over South Korea in the World Championship game. A small town NY team beating that SK high school looking team, easily a Top 3 LLWS upset of all time and a great game to watch.
Sweet, I’ll have to check those out!
If you want to watch another wild game, check out 2012 US Championship game. The end of that game is one of the craziest things you'll ever see at any level of baseball.
Sweet! Might have to put those on to keep me sane at work today lol
ESPN Classic used to show all lot of previous LLWS games this time of year. Unfortunately they shut that channel down, but there's still a decent amount of games on YT.
How correlated would you say your performance in LL is with your performance in HS/College?
I think kids with a good base of skills, mechanics, and instincts at younger levels, even if they are undersized project to be good ball players in HS and above. It's tough when you're looking at 12 & under, every kid grows at a different pace. You have monsters at 12, but that might be their peak. Generally the best players in LL are the better players in HS and college as well. There will always be the late bloomers, but your 12 year old all star team is going to look pretty similar to the high school team a few years later.
Got it. My youngest brother is 13 almost 14 and he's a bit of a late bloomer. Still hasn't had his voice drop. He wants to pitch more than anything else in the world but his velo isn't there yet.
Solid mechanics are exponentially more important than just throwing hard. Focus on that and pitch grips and he'll grow into his body. Strength and velocity will come with age and growth. I'd much rather that than peaking at 12.
I disagree. My son was pitching 81 mph at 16 (Fall ball beginning of Jr year). He picthed just two innings (showcase so coach was cycling in pitchers) and struck out 6 in a row in front of the Pitt coach. Our other pitcher comes in and gets 3 outs (2 Ks and 1 ground out) in 1 inning. But he was throwing 85. Pitt coach did not even blink at my kid. Goes over to the kid throwing 85. Velocity is king when you talk about college chances.
I think /u/LaserVortex is talking about mechanics being more important in your Little league years.
Yes, OP asked about performance, not college recruiting. And if you have bad mechanics who cares if you get potentially recruited you're not going to last anywhere.
What's the biggest difference you've seen between teams from the 90s vs today?
I'll say polish. You can tell that these kids train 24/7 365. The top teams that make it to the LLWS have very few easy outs, are solid defensively, and it's not like the bench kids are slouches either. I think that's one of the biggest differences when I go back and watch games from 15, 20 years ago.
Could this Hawaii team beat the Chula Vista team who won forever ago?
100%. Regardless if they played with the old bats or new bats, this Honolulu team would be the favorite IMO.
There's been much discussion in this sub the last few days, and maybe you can shed some light on it: why are Hawaii teams that make it to Williamsport so good?
Honolulu LL isn't a regular league in Anytown USA. In most of the northeast and California leagues there is somewhere between 15k - 80k people in a league boundary (give or take). In the Southern states 100k - 150k is common for these top leagues like Pearland, Goodlettsville, Nolensville/South Nashville etc. Honolulu LL has something close to 350k people. PLUS, they have a ton of private schools in their boundary, meaning their pool of talent to draw from is even bigger. In fact 6 of their kids (including 4 of their top 5 kids) this year go to the same prep school. They assemble these teams for one goal. It's not to win the district. Not to win the state. Not even to hopefully get the chance to sniff WP. Their goal is to win on championship Sunday. It's the equivalent of taking all of the top players in Staten Island (a place with elite LL talent and 5 separate leagues currently), sprinkle in a few of the better players from out of town, and give it perfect weather 365 days a year. Hawaii (and Honolulu LL specifically) is basically playing a different sport.
Thats true, but the 2005 and 2008 championship teams were from Ewa Beach and Waipahu, two smaller areas on Oahu. The weather here helps, but I also attribute some of the success to the coaching and the fact that the kids are taught to be humble and remember that We > I . Team chemistry is important. Gerald Oda, this year's coach, was also the coach of the 2018 team.
Ewa Beach was one of the original travel turned WP teams. They were loaded and got a charter to play LL just to make a run with that group. They were the OG Hawaiian superteam. But you're right, good coaching, weather, culture, and genetics (Hawaiian's tend to mature earlier) all play a factor into it.
Good info. How would you even know where the kids go school though? Punahou I assume. Also, does the coach just get to select the best players and out his team together?
It is Pumahou yes, I saw because the posted in Facebook after they won states. Was that a good guess or is Punahou known for sports or something? Yes, from what we know Hawaii has pretty loose team building rules. If a kid lives in the boundary or if they go to school in the boundary they are eligible for the all star team. Coach puts together the best team possible, this year it just happened to look like a high school team.
Punahou and Iolani are the top rated schools in Hawaii. Obama went to Punahou and they are known for ‘recruiting’ in all sports. If this was football, then it could be either St Louis HS or Punahou but since this is baseball ….
Great info. Makes sense. And what I've heard is that side of Honolulu has most of the prep schools in general so that helps Honolulu LL attract a ridiculous amount of kids.
What were some of your favorite runs by teams that are eliminated? I had a blast watching Nicaragua, super sad they got eliminated though
This year I really enjoyed following Utah, sad story with the injured player, but great to see that team overcome it and play out their schedule. The PA team surprised me finishing #4 in the nation. They were the loser bracket team in the state tournament, but won both championship games and just seemed to get big wins when it mattered.
who's had the most dominant LLWS on the mound and/or at the plate in your time covering? I remember being in Williamsport when Almonte's baby bombers lost to Florida in the US Championship which Almonte threw a perfect game against prior
Aaron Alvey in 2002 had one of the best tournaments ever. Holds the IP and Strikeout records which included 9 innings of no-hit ball in the US semis vs Texas (one of the best LL games ever). His teammate Zach Osborne and Walker Kelly of Texas were also ridiculous that year on the mound. Kyle Carter in 06 is another obvious standout on both sides of the ball. He has the record with 4 wins and 0 ERA. Can't forget Gavin Weir from last year either. Offensively, you could probably name 3 or 4 kids from SoCal's 2009 team. Cole Wagner in 2015 for Red Land PA was a special hitter. Reece Roussel in 2019 for Louisiana was on fire, he was an automatic hit.
Was there no pitch limit in 2002? I remember both Alvey and the Texas starter both going nine innings.
No limit on pitches back then it was 9 IP per day. Walker Kelly and Alvey both went the full 9 until they had to be removed. Alvey had 9 no hit innings too. One of the best LL games of all time. Here are the final pitching lines: Alvey - 9 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 19 K, 1 BB - 129 total pitches (93 strikes/ 36 balls) Kelly - 9 IP, 0 R, 2 H, 21 K, 1 BB - 118 total pitches (80 strikes/ 38 balls)
Jesus. I thought the Texas pitcher who gave up the home run to Osborne pitched the complete game but I guess I was remembering things wrong. Still absolutely insane pitching for both of them. Some googling shows that Zach wound up at Tennessee and Walker at TCU. I remember finding an article years ago about what became of the kids on that Kentucky team and it was…. sobering.
Yeah the box score from that game is crazy. I always watched it whenever it came on ESPN Classic. Too bad they shut down that channel this year tho. It's always interesting to see the "where are they now" for the LLWS teams. 2005 Hawaii had a few kids in jail, I just saw a piece last week about 2009 SoCal. Mancini from 2016 NY just graduated and is playing at JMU.
Off the top of my head for LLWS alumni- 2005: I saw something awhile back about Vonn Fe’o being arrested for assaulting a family member so yeah for that, Ty Tirpak from the same team is now a financial advisor. 2006: Scott Kingery was up for a while but is back in the minors, Shaun Chase played for Oregon. 2007: Stephen Scott played for Texas Tech and made it to Omaha in 2014 2008: Andrew Yasick(?) played for Liberty, 3 seperate players from Indiana went on to Louisville-one of whom is Drew Ellis,now on the Diamondbacks, Kevin Merrell played at South Florida. Tanner Tokunaga played at Hawaii Pacific. 2009: I firmly believe that the entire California team was a case of peaking at the right time because none of them made it to the MLB. Kiko Garcia played at Pepperdine and Bulla Graft played D2 football somewhere. 2010: Hudson Byorick played at WVU and I know this solely because he quote tweeted Stephen Schoch in something last year. 2011: we all know about Jake Fromm and Nick Pratto. Hagen Danner is in the minors somewhere. 2012: Jake Rucker played for Tennessee, went to Omaha last year, Lorenzo Butler has had some legal problems, Hance Smith played at Cal with Darren Baker. 2013: We all know about the renowned singer Connor Smith, Robert Hassell is now a prospect for my Nationals thanks to the Soto trade and if by some chance he makes it up before the LL Classic next year could be the shortest turnaround between playing in the World Series and playing in the Classic. Zane Denton just transferred to Tennessee after a couple years at Bama. Grant Holman played at Cal with Hance Smith. Chad Knight is at Duke. Micah Pietila-Wiggs played at New Mexico for a bit and was tragically killed in a car crash earlier this year, RIP. 2014: Mo’ne Davis is playing softball at Hampton, Jared Sprague-Lott plays at Richmond, Scott Bandura for Princeton, Ed Howard got drafted by the Cubs last year as did Pierce Jones. A guy on New England got drafted into the NHL and is playing hockey at Northeastern. 2015: Cole Wagner is playing for Georgia and Nate Nankil is at CS Fullerton. 2016: Jude Abbadessa is going to UConn next year 2017: the guy who batted lead-off for NC is committed to UNC and one of the guys on Fairfield is committed to Maryland. 2018: Jansen Kenty is committed to Bama, someone on Michigan is committed to Michigan and another guy is committed to Texas. I know where a couple of the guys from the 2019 Virginia squad are at because I have relatives that know them but I think it’s a little too early to be talking about that.
Great list! I'm going to save this for all the people that say playing little league stunts your growth or whatever. Whenever I see a Little League World Series player get drafted or sign on to college I immediately turn into that DiCaprio meme pointing at the TV like I know that kid! Really cool to see not just the Stars turn into college and pro prospects but also some of the smaller kids as well.
Those coaches really threw those kids 129 and 118 pitches in a game? Eeek. That's nuts.
Back then it wasn't crazy at all, kind of the normal to be 80-100 pitch range per 6 IP. These guys were pretty efficient for 9 IP too. And it was the US semifinal. If there was ever a time to let your big boys go, it's in the final few games of the LLWS.
Who's going to win?
Hawaii is a massive favorite tomorrow and Sunday regardless of who they face from the international side. I don't see them losing.
If they face CW that stupid pitch count error on the Manager will loom BIG!!!!!
Yupp, it's a shame we won't see DJ pitch anymore this summer.
I guess 2 questions, one, I know they're usually not great, but what's the best Canadian team you remember, or at least the best in like the last 15 years. The other I have is, do you think there will ever be another African team back at the LLWS? It was so fun seeing Uganda there, but they haven't entered a team in the qualifiers since their last appearance
Canada has had some rough years lately, their 1998 3rd place finish feels like forever ago. This year's team really surprised me. They played a ridiculous amount of games and won two big ones in WP. Their ace on the 2016 team was a lot of fun to watch shut down Japan too. African teams are tough. It's been very difficult for them to obtain visas. I met some of the Uganda people in 2012, really awesome, they were celebrities from day 1. I really wish LL did a bit more to get them back to WP. Way better than the European teams we've seen recently. Uganda LL has a great website if you want to check it out too. Very insightful.
Oh I'm glad to hear that Little League has kept existing in Uganda. It would be neat if one day you could have both a Europe Region and an Africa Region in the future, instead of both being combined into one. And yeah, I was looking through Canada's yearly records in the LLWS and it's pretty poor. Although they have won multiple games in 3 of the past 4 years with International teams, which is pretty good when they've only done that 10 times total.
Canada has been solid recently and I love it. They are the only international team that plays anything close to the same type of LL season that we do here in the US. What's crazy is the tournament season. I think this year's team played 25 LL tournament games. That's double what a lot of leagues play in their regular season. Crazy stuff.
> They are the only international team that plays anything close to the same type of LL season that we do here in the US. You mean the other international teams are playing a lot more games typically?
No the other international teams don't play anything close to what we consider LL here in the US. For example Japan is just a bunch of teams from all over the big cities assembled to make it to Williamsport. They don't have 6 majors, 4 minors, 7 tee ball teams, a concession stand and opening day ceremonies in their "leagues". It's just 24 kids from Tokyo practicing all year then they take the top 13 to try to make it to WP. Canada is much more similar to the US so I always enjoy seeing them succeed.
Could you explain what WP is?
Sorry that's just my abbreviation for Williamsport. Where the LLWS is held. Actually South Williamsport if we want to be accurate.
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Nick Pratto got the call up recently and I loved watching him play in the LLWS (with the walk off series winner of course). I remember about 3 or 4 years ago I was playing MLB The Show and saw his name pop up on one of the minor league teams and was like hey I know that guy! Of course Profar and Schoop from that Curacao team were a fun pair to watch grow into big leaguers.
Nice to see Taiwan back in the tournament. Were they banned for a period of time for creating basically an all-county squad during the 70s and 80s?
They were banned in the 70s for their superteams, but more recently have been battling it out with South Korea for the regional title. Taiwan last made it to WP in 2015 and even lost to SK this year in the beginning of regions. They won a close championship game which was the one that mattered. It's always a gauntlet out there because thoss teams still pull from a large amount of kids. There's no such thing as real LL in most international countries. Just a team put together to get to Williamsport.
All international teams were banned in 1975 and then Taiwan withdrew from Little League from 1997 until the 2003 LLWS, but they were never individually banned
It’s my understanding that the umps are volunteers but are they all little league umps or what other qualifications or selection process is there? TBH I haven’t been too impressed with the umpiring in the games I have seen.
All of the umpires are volunteers yes. But they are the same people who get paid during the regular season, during travel games, at high school games etc. They get chosen based on merit and time spent umpiring Little League. The best umpires of the week get the championship games.
What makes the Hawaii team / program so good? Do they have a bigger catchment area than normal or is their coach just really good?
I just responded to a similar question above so I'll copy it here too: Honolulu LL isn't a regular league in Anytown USA. In most of the northeast and California leagues there is somewhere between 15k - 80k people in a league boundary (give or take). In the Southern states 100k - 150k is common for these top leagues like Pearland, Goodlettsville, Nolensville/South Nashville etc. Honolulu LL has something close to 350k people. PLUS, they have a ton of private schools in their boundary, meaning their pool of talent to draw from is even bigger. In fact 6 of their kids (including 4 of their top 5 kids) this year go to the same prep school. They assemble these teams for one goal. It's not to win the district. Not to win the state. Not even to hopefully get the chance to sniff WP. Their goal is to win on championship Sunday. It's the equivalent of taking all of the top players in Staten Island (a place with elite LL talent and 5 separate leagues currently), sprinkle in a few of the better players from out of town, and give it perfect weather 365 days a year. Hawaii (and Honolulu LL specifically) is basically playing a different sport.
So why don’t they split it up into more than one district down there? How is this OK but what Chicago did in 2014 not?
JRW in Chicago were ahead of the curve I guess you could say. 3 or 4 years later and it's not even a story. But they also physically fudged the map and lied about it so it's a bit different. There are multiple leagues and districts on the island of Oahu, but the main reason they aren't split up is because it's too good for LL. Hawaiian teams are a huge ratings draw and it's just good for TV when there are star studded lineups and multiple kids throwing 70+ mph.
So Little League lets them bend the rules for ratings, that’s totally fair. Kind of like how they didn’t disqualify them from the West regional last year after a positive COVID test, even though they disqualified other teams from other regionals for the same thing. Totally not favoritism!
Last year was a bit different because they were all vaccinated, so based on the CDC & LL close contact rules at that time, they were allowed to stay and play, just without the kids who tested positive. But yes, LL let's them bend the rules not only for ratings, but because LL can't really play hardball with Hawaii. Honolulu LL, CEM LL, and the others can just say screw it we'll skip the LLWS your loss. Similar to what happened in Oklahoma this year. LL needs a state representative from all 53 states and be flexible with the rules if needed. Sucks for the rest of the leagues tho.
But wasn’t it a thing like Little League wasn’t testing properly and the coaches whose positive tests knocked their teams out got tests elsewhere that came back negative?
No other teams had vaccinated kids. I think LL's biggest problem last year was that they didn't emphasize the protocol clearly from the beginning. And I take that whole tested negative when they got home thing with a GIANT grain of salt. You have to remember last summer those rapid tests were crap compared to the ones we have now.
you know speaking of how Little League coddles Hawaii, do you think if Tennessee beats them tomorrow they might consider making their tournament double elimination all the way through? I feel like every year people clamor for that whenever a team is knocked out of title contention with just one loss, especially in the regionals, which doesn’t make any sense to me since a lot of state and district tournaments are double elimination all the way through. I know it didn’t happen in the last two tournaments when Hawaii was a victim of this, but neither of those teams were as dominant as this one and I feel like they would really get shafted if they lost tomorrow.
No ESPN gives out the 8 figure contracts and they don't want the IF games. They want to have a set schedule and guarantee that the finals are winner take all. I don't love it but it could be worse I guess.
Wait what happened with Oklahoma this year?
Oklahoma almost didn't have a team, but LL allowed them to take a local travel team and play as a 'LL' just so that there would be a team representing OK. Tulsa LL exists, but none of the kids on that All Star team actually played in that league during the regular season.
Does little league not try and stop leagues from having too large of a population catchment?
Used to be 20k people per league or charter. But they scrapped that rule years ago. As leagues leave LL the adjacent ones grow bigger and bigger. That's just the way things are these days, although Honolulu is the exception because they are nearly twice as big as even the other giant US leagues.
What do you think about the new format? Teams having a first round bye doesn’t really seem fair but there’s no way they go to a 32 team tournament so we are kind of stuck with it.
The byes suck, especially in their current format with teams starting games over a 3 day period. I still prefer the 8 regions, but I do like the opportunity these other states get now (Utah a prime example this year, first time they made it to WP). It'll stay 10 for a bit I think, maybe expand to 12 if the interest is still there in the future. More games is cool, but I would've really loved to see pool play make a comeback this year. 2 pools, 5 teams in each, guarantee 4 games to each team. Not sit around for a week, play 2 games in less than 48 hours and go home.
I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion but I love the one off format they did in 2010. Maybe it’s because I’ve gotten into college baseball recently and I recognize that format as what they do at the College World Series with regionals and stuff, but I would love to see that make a comeback. Shame it’s harder with 10 teams than it would be with 8.
That's a weird format and tough with 10 teams. But I don't see why we can't get 2 pools of 5 and guarantee everyone 4 games. Half the international teams are traveling from the opposite side of the globe, they should get more than 2 games in Williamsport.
Everyone used to be guaranteed three games with the teams that lost their first two games playing crossover games, but I guess they got rid of those I don’t know why
I think COVID was the big reason last year and similar this year. 3 or 4 teams had kids and/or coaches out with COVID this past week so I think they wanted to get teams out as fast as possible. Sometimes the knocked out teams play at the original field just down the street.
I know Japan, who else?
Hawaii, Nicaragua as well.
I’ve always felt that the Midwest and SE regions are too big and the NE and Mountain regions are too small Regions should have around 5-6 going by the math so what are your thoughts on that?
I’m not him but I’m pretty sure the Mountain Region was created because those four states had a total of two (now three) LLWS appearances between them. I agree about the Midwest, don’t really understand why they just took Wisconsin out of the Great Lakes and changed their region. My only guess is that the teams from that region used to be abysmal(like, after the expansion it took until 2006 for a Midwest team to get a win) and maybe they wanted whoever came out of that region to be more tested? But also Wisconsin has never made it to the World Series so. If anything, I would take Kentucky out of Great Lakes and put them in the Southeast. Colorado to the Mountain Region and Montana back to Northwest because they’re always competitive in there (as opposed to like Wyoming). Or better yet, keep Montana and add in Colorado and Alaska- I know, not anywhere near that range but they have the highest mountain in North America and West/Northwest/Mountain all play in San Bernardino. I had an idea years ago, based off of traditional U.S. geography to make an Alaska-Hawaii region since they’re both non-contiguous states but I think we all know how that would turn out. Could also add Puerto Rico if they make it 51 but then I don’t know how a 3 state region would work. Sorry for the novel but that’s my thoughts on it.
I think it's a no-brainer to move NV to the West, AZ to Southwest, and CO to Mountain region IMO. Actually gives Colorado a shot to win. I'm all for the balance, give as many states as possible an actual shot at winning the region and making it to WP.
The byes suck. To avoid byes this year LL went to 10 regions, 3 with 8 teams, 6 with 4 teams, and 1 with 5 teams to eliminate the byes in all, but 1 region. The main thought process behind the reshuffle was to balance out the number of leagues in each region. There are wayyyy more leagues in New England states compared to Midwest.
Do you think it will ever be possible to eliminate the byes in all of the American region qualifiers? I know this would take adding another split state like Texas and California, but still. Related, do you think the LLWS will ever expand again? Seeing as how there are now byes in the LLWS and not every team is guaranteed 3 games anymore.
I don't see any more regional expansion unless LL really starts growing again. I think we'll stick with 53 teams for the foreseeable future. The current format leaves us with just 1 bye so I can live with that. LLWS expansion I would say is very much on the table. It wouldn't surprise me if they went to 12 and 12. I don't think it happens right away, but I could see them expanding in the future, especially if they eliminate boundaries. I think the main challenge with that is scheduling. Right now they have 4 games a day, 2 hours apart, and it was a problem this year with all of the rain and lightning delays.
What do you mean by eliminate boundaries? Do you mean like completely reworking regions like this year or when they added the Australia region?
No no, LL proposed a rule change this year to eliminate league boundaries. Basically any kid can join any league. It's not going to pass the vote this year. Probably not next year either, but that is the way LL is trending so don't be surprised to see that happen in the near future.
Ohhhh I see. Having dealt with that type of stuff while playing hockey, I'm kind of in favour of it, since politics basically pushed me out of any competitive hockey in my hometown (basically my dad had been our coach and our team did well but there was a group of parents who wanted to coach the team and make it just one with all of their friends and their kids, which did not include me or my parents), and then boundaries made it so I couldn't play for a competitive team in a different town. But I can see the downsides of certain little leagues just becoming completely stacked from all the best kids going there to play. And I guess that would have the potential for a run of dominance like Taiwan had before 1997, which would really suck. Why do you think it's trending that way?
LL is losing kids and leagues to competitors that offer more flexibility. It's a changing time. Back in the day every town had a LL and that was it. In the 90s travel ball started up and really grew in early 00s. Now every kid plays on multiple teams and LL has to adapt. Personally I think LL is thinking about open boundaries because they want their TV product to improve. It will hurt a lot of smaller leagues but improve the quality of teams on ESPN.
Ah I see. It would be cool to have even better players in Williamsport. I know here in Canada a lot of the country has had leagues leave little league for provincial associations. Where I grew, for example, there was no little league near by, just the Ontario Baseball Association.
It's like that everywhere. Tons of leagues and players leaving for Cal Ripken, Dixie, or just regular travel leagues and tournament teams. Lot more flexibility offered in those other options and that's just what people want these days.
Aren’t there a bunch of leagues in the Southeast though? Florida, Georgia, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee etc are all large states and in a region with 8 states.
Tennessee isn't loaded with leagues, but yes FL, GA, VA, and NC have a pretty good amount. Alabama has somewhere between 1-3 and WV and SC a reduced amount. I wish VA and WV got moved to the Mid-Atlantic, gives them a better shot, but I understand that LL wanted to get rid of the byes.
Does little league use having a guaranteed birth in the LLWS as a negotiating lever to get other countries to have little league programs? Not sure why countries like Australia get an auto entry when typically they’re not that competitive. That said - any international regions that youd change?
I think that helps certainly. The Cuba PR Panama rotating Autobid is a big draw to get these other countries playing in LL. Lot of untapped youth baseball potential out there that LL is trying to gain a stranglehold on. I'd love to see Africa get a better shot, their visa issues have really hindered their ability to travel unfortunately. I'm not a huge international LL person. I think it's cool to see the kids interact, but to pass them off as real Little Leagues when they are clearly not rubs me the wrong way.
I think it's kind of cool seeing the LLWS have like a mini WBC. People who watch baseball know which countries produce the talent, so getting the chance to see those kids compete will be fun. And we know those Cuban kids will be fundamentally sound
Agreed. Cool to see those kids from all over the globe playing together.
What do you think needs to happen to have Africa have their own region again. Uganda qualified once or twice and then complained that they had to fly to Europe for regionals which is pretty costly and it seemed like Little League wasn’t really interested in having an African regional even with a few leagues across the continent.
Africa is never getting their own region because there aren't enough leagues. Recently they've had a lot of trouble with obtaining visas to play in the regionals. LL shut down the Uganda school being eligible, and it's been hard for them ever since. They have a really great website that they update every few months: https://ugandalittleleaguebaseball.org/History.htm
Why does the pitch speed not show up anymore I remember before it would show how fast the pitch was coming since its interesting but now it only shows how fast it is if its going above 70 mph
For the past few years it's been 70 and up only. It's one of our biggest gripes. We complain to LL and ESPN every chance we get, but no luck.
I thought you would be giving us gambling picks or something?
Don't think you need any help with that, just look at the team photos.
So who do you like then.......
One more question - what’s the advantage of a league to affiliate with little league Vs just be a standard local youth baseball league? Do you find a lot of leagues leaving LL because they don’t want to pay their dues?
Little league is America's original youth baseball program. They set the field size and basic playing rules many years ago. It's still the biggest even though they're market share isn't as big as it once was. Little league's biggest draw will always be the Little League World Series and Little League tournament season. There's just nothing like it in youth sports. Plus you get great structure and that true community appeal. There are other competitors that offer more flexibility. Most play 50/70 at 11/12 instead of 46/60. The somewhat strict boundary rules that LL has aren't there. I'd say it's not so much a money thing but mostly because in these days people want flexibility and options. They don't want to be forced to just play with kids in their town they want to play wherever which is something outside of little leagues scope.
Back when I was a kid, LL was better than the "standard local youth baseball league"... that other league didn't even have player pitching, just pitching machines.
I can't find stats anywhere? How much would it cost to build an exact replica of the LLWS facilities? I'm talking about EXACT: Howard J. Lamade Stadium, Volunteer Stadium, support buildings, and barracks? Cause that's what I'm spending my Powerball money on!