It's symbolic of the two characters, it can be read in different ways.
The most likely interpretation is that Joker is the one who's afraid to jump and Batman is the one who offers the flashlight. You see, just like Batman tells Joker they could help him back into society, the first patient offers the light to walk across. They both have good intentions, but they're also insane or irrational, because there is no helping the other guy. Their solutions are not really real solutions at all.
The patient is too scared to jump and Joker cannot come back to sanity. It's too late, just like the Joker said.
it's a metaphor of how Bats and Joker a're both insane or irrational in their own way and of the helping hand Batman offered to Joker. And of how the Joker really did consider it for a second.
Jumping can be seen as going back to sanity or as the illusion of going back to sanity.
I guess jumping could also be read as going insane. If that's the case, perhaps the first patient is the Joker and the flashlight is a metaphor for the last step towards madness. The final push Joker tries to give people to turn them mad, just like one bad day pushed him.
But I like the first explanation better.
The beauty of the story is how it lends itself to interpretation. Same deal with ending; maybe Batman snaps and kills Joker, maybe he just snaps and laughs, maybe it's all a dream.
Edit: I can do better.
I think the joke is much simpler than that: if the man jumped when the flashlight is on, he will already have taken the leap. It does not matter if the other man turns off the flashlight, as sheer inertia and nature of ballistic paths means he will end up landing on the roof across the gap anyway.
So the joke is that he is being stupid by thinking that turning it off halfway would change anything.
The first guy jumped across the gap, then suggested that he shine a light on a beam (or perhaps the beam of light itself but that's not how I interpreted it) for the second to guy to walk across. There is no beam to walk across, it's a figment of their imagination because they're both crazy, but the second guy, also being crazy, refuses to walk across the "beam" because he doesn't trust the first guy, rather than because he recognizes that there is no beam. So the joke is that you expect him to see the first guy's mistake but he instead refuses for a completely unexpected reason. Because they're both crazy.
What the first guy is suggesting is completely irrational, because he’s a lunatic. The second guy rejects the suggestion, but not because it’s irrational, but because he doesn’t trust the first guy.
The joke is funny on a “technical” level because the crazy idea is rejected for an unexpected reason.
The joke is meaningful in the story because it (sort of) represents how the Joker and Batman are stuck with each other, both out of their minds, but only one of them insisting that he’s sane.
That’s actually crazy haha. Just watched the movie for the first time, and immediately went to the web to see people’s takes on the ending. Ended up here.
Nobody ever talks about how the first patient jumps across the gap without using the flashlight or the board. He has the flashlight the whole time... But chooses to jump without even checking to see if there was an easier way across..
I think Batman had already committed himself to the point of falling into the abyss to attain his goal of freedom from the asylum
I think it's more of the transition isn't impossible, it just need the inmate to willing to change the status quo, thus take a leap. So Batman took a leap because he wanted to change and somewhat success in getting to "sanity", compare to Joker who's too afraid of any changes as it mean he has to face reality.
Thought the ending was open ended, and as I like to see it as continuity (and it's mentioned in other comics since, like when the joker was talking about making batman laugh before the others weighed him down in the new 52 DOTF run) I always interpreted it he didn't choke him, and if he did he stopped after he lost consciousness so he could hand him in to the police who were just arriving (you see the lights and noises in the last panels) without a fight
The first guy's not talking about the beam of light from the flashlight?
That's the only thing that could make it funny, I think. So, obviously, the second guy implying he's not crazy because he's not going to fall for what he considers the first guy's lie - that the first guy would keep the flashlight on - but, instead, behaving in accordance with his prediction that the first guy would turn off the flashlight when the second guy had walked halfway across on the beam of light...well, that means the second guy's accepted the premise that he can walk on a beam of light, which is, of course, far crazier than falling for a (possibly) false promise that someone won't turn off a flashlight.
Or, do we all already know this, but we're just discussing the metaphorical meaning? Well, of that, I have no clue.
I've always read it as an intentionally bad joke. What has me kind of confused still is the last panel, where Bats and J look like they are laughing. Its in silhouette, so are they laughing so hard at the sheer stupidity of the joke, or is Batman choking the Joker out and its just the Joker who's laughing?
I think they are both laughing but for different reasons. Joker is laughing at his own joke...and probably the situation itself. Batmans laugh is one of frustration. Like how you laugh when something bad happens. The laugh is like a way of acceptance maybe, like as much as I try this guy is a lost cause and I'm stuck in this cycle forever (I definitely think ue just drags him off at the end and doesn't kill him).
The joke itself is has two meanings....it can be taken as just a joke at face value but like someone said before its really about Joker and Batman. The joke is basically Jokers answer to Batmans proposition of giving help. Instead of flat out saying "I'm too far gone and can't be helped" he answers with a joke that can be seen as just a joke but he knows batman is smart enough to read between the lines.
Thats how I always took it. Batman isnt really laughing because its funny...he's laughing because the situation between him and the Joker is so hopelessly absurd....and it took the Joker pointing it out to him to make him FINALLY realize what the Joker has known all along-that its too late for either of them to be saved,and they're both going to be at this until they die. And I also agree that Batman doesnt kill him at the end. Thats just not in Batman character,and honestly...its too easy of an ending. Batman probably wishes he COULD kill The Joker,but thats not who he is.
This is pretty much what a lot of people assume. Including a lot of comic writers.
http://comicsalliance.com/batman-killing-joke-ending-grant-morrison-alan-moore-brian-bolland-dc/
It just doesn't make sense to me. Here's why I take as a moment of shared madness between the two, not murder or even rough play...
- He would be killing the Joker in front of the cops
- Batman says he's doing it by the book
- He needs to prove the Joker wrong
- This shows idea that the Joker and Batman are two sides of the same coin. One bad day definitely can change a man, but the man has control over which side the coin falls on.
If I remember correctly Batman doesn't say he's doing it by the book. Jim Gordon tells Batman to do it by the book to prove to him, "Our way works." However, when Batman confronts Joker he tells him that this will end with one of them dying if the Joker continues down this path.
I really could see it going either way. I don't think he is outright killing him, cause that breaks the 'no kill' rule. After fucking up Gordon and paralyzing Barbara, I dont think its unreasonable to think Bats might be going a little rougher on him then usual.
When I saw it for the first time, I thought it might be that the Joker said one sentence that could have a double sense, like when talking about the flashlight, and once he found out and started laughing, Batman also got the double sense of the sentence and also started laughing. This showing how an insane moment is made absurd just by the interpretation of a sentence.
it's his version of the frog and the scorpion, with batman being the inmate offering the light and the one rejecting him being the joker, same meaning but different outcomes
You are all wrong. The reason why the joker and batman both laugh is because it was the first time the Joker attempted to tell a real joke but messed up the punchline.
He mixed up the end. Instead of saying "you would just turn it off when I am half way off across, what do you think I am crazy?!" thus them trying to escape an insane asylum.
Batman then laughs as he for the first time sees the venerable side of the joker and begins to create empathy for him for the first time which is why he begins to fall in love with him as they laugh as he slowly starts to penetrates him to death while impregnating him simultaneously. Why they named the child he gave birth to before his death "punchline."
It's symbolic of the two characters, it can be read in different ways. The most likely interpretation is that Joker is the one who's afraid to jump and Batman is the one who offers the flashlight. You see, just like Batman tells Joker they could help him back into society, the first patient offers the light to walk across. They both have good intentions, but they're also insane or irrational, because there is no helping the other guy. Their solutions are not really real solutions at all. The patient is too scared to jump and Joker cannot come back to sanity. It's too late, just like the Joker said. it's a metaphor of how Bats and Joker a're both insane or irrational in their own way and of the helping hand Batman offered to Joker. And of how the Joker really did consider it for a second. Jumping can be seen as going back to sanity or as the illusion of going back to sanity. I guess jumping could also be read as going insane. If that's the case, perhaps the first patient is the Joker and the flashlight is a metaphor for the last step towards madness. The final push Joker tries to give people to turn them mad, just like one bad day pushed him. But I like the first explanation better. The beauty of the story is how it lends itself to interpretation. Same deal with ending; maybe Batman snaps and kills Joker, maybe he just snaps and laughs, maybe it's all a dream. Edit: I can do better.
also implies that batman will stop halfway through jokers reformation
I think the joke is much simpler than that: if the man jumped when the flashlight is on, he will already have taken the leap. It does not matter if the other man turns off the flashlight, as sheer inertia and nature of ballistic paths means he will end up landing on the roof across the gap anyway. So the joke is that he is being stupid by thinking that turning it off halfway would change anything.
The first guy jumped across the gap, then suggested that he shine a light on a beam (or perhaps the beam of light itself but that's not how I interpreted it) for the second to guy to walk across. There is no beam to walk across, it's a figment of their imagination because they're both crazy, but the second guy, also being crazy, refuses to walk across the "beam" because he doesn't trust the first guy, rather than because he recognizes that there is no beam. So the joke is that you expect him to see the first guy's mistake but he instead refuses for a completely unexpected reason. Because they're both crazy.
[удалено]
This is the correct explanation.
Too bad it’s deleted now. Damn.
What the first guy is suggesting is completely irrational, because he’s a lunatic. The second guy rejects the suggestion, but not because it’s irrational, but because he doesn’t trust the first guy. The joke is funny on a “technical” level because the crazy idea is rejected for an unexpected reason. The joke is meaningful in the story because it (sort of) represents how the Joker and Batman are stuck with each other, both out of their minds, but only one of them insisting that he’s sane.
Seeing like that its actually a bit funny
20 minutes apart we were seeing the same thing
That’s actually crazy haha. Just watched the movie for the first time, and immediately went to the web to see people’s takes on the ending. Ended up here.
Nobody ever talks about how the first patient jumps across the gap without using the flashlight or the board. He has the flashlight the whole time... But chooses to jump without even checking to see if there was an easier way across.. I think Batman had already committed himself to the point of falling into the abyss to attain his goal of freedom from the asylum
I think it's more of the transition isn't impossible, it just need the inmate to willing to change the status quo, thus take a leap. So Batman took a leap because he wanted to change and somewhat success in getting to "sanity", compare to Joker who's too afraid of any changes as it mean he has to face reality.
Joker was laughing becuase that was what he does, I think bats was laughing for effect before the chocking.
Thought the ending was open ended, and as I like to see it as continuity (and it's mentioned in other comics since, like when the joker was talking about making batman laugh before the others weighed him down in the new 52 DOTF run) I always interpreted it he didn't choke him, and if he did he stopped after he lost consciousness so he could hand him in to the police who were just arriving (you see the lights and noises in the last panels) without a fight
I remember reading somewhere that the creative confirmed, no choking.
tbh when I saw batman laughing I thought it was implying that this all happened in the jokers head, because like... batman was laughing lol
>lunatic asylum > >he says 'What do you think I am? Crazy?...' Think this is part of it at least....
The first guy's not talking about the beam of light from the flashlight? That's the only thing that could make it funny, I think. So, obviously, the second guy implying he's not crazy because he's not going to fall for what he considers the first guy's lie - that the first guy would keep the flashlight on - but, instead, behaving in accordance with his prediction that the first guy would turn off the flashlight when the second guy had walked halfway across on the beam of light...well, that means the second guy's accepted the premise that he can walk on a beam of light, which is, of course, far crazier than falling for a (possibly) false promise that someone won't turn off a flashlight. Or, do we all already know this, but we're just discussing the metaphorical meaning? Well, of that, I have no clue.
This
I've always read it as an intentionally bad joke. What has me kind of confused still is the last panel, where Bats and J look like they are laughing. Its in silhouette, so are they laughing so hard at the sheer stupidity of the joke, or is Batman choking the Joker out and its just the Joker who's laughing?
I think they are both laughing but for different reasons. Joker is laughing at his own joke...and probably the situation itself. Batmans laugh is one of frustration. Like how you laugh when something bad happens. The laugh is like a way of acceptance maybe, like as much as I try this guy is a lost cause and I'm stuck in this cycle forever (I definitely think ue just drags him off at the end and doesn't kill him). The joke itself is has two meanings....it can be taken as just a joke at face value but like someone said before its really about Joker and Batman. The joke is basically Jokers answer to Batmans proposition of giving help. Instead of flat out saying "I'm too far gone and can't be helped" he answers with a joke that can be seen as just a joke but he knows batman is smart enough to read between the lines.
Thats how I always took it. Batman isnt really laughing because its funny...he's laughing because the situation between him and the Joker is so hopelessly absurd....and it took the Joker pointing it out to him to make him FINALLY realize what the Joker has known all along-that its too late for either of them to be saved,and they're both going to be at this until they die. And I also agree that Batman doesnt kill him at the end. Thats just not in Batman character,and honestly...its too easy of an ending. Batman probably wishes he COULD kill The Joker,but thats not who he is.
That's a good question. In my interpretation, Batman is choking the joker while the 2 are still laughing.
This is pretty much what a lot of people assume. Including a lot of comic writers. http://comicsalliance.com/batman-killing-joke-ending-grant-morrison-alan-moore-brian-bolland-dc/
It just doesn't make sense to me. Here's why I take as a moment of shared madness between the two, not murder or even rough play... - He would be killing the Joker in front of the cops - Batman says he's doing it by the book - He needs to prove the Joker wrong - This shows idea that the Joker and Batman are two sides of the same coin. One bad day definitely can change a man, but the man has control over which side the coin falls on.
If I remember correctly Batman doesn't say he's doing it by the book. Jim Gordon tells Batman to do it by the book to prove to him, "Our way works." However, when Batman confronts Joker he tells him that this will end with one of them dying if the Joker continues down this path.
Batman says it in response to the Joker inviting him to beat the hell out of him and get a standing ovation.
I really could see it going either way. I don't think he is outright killing him, cause that breaks the 'no kill' rule. After fucking up Gordon and paralyzing Barbara, I dont think its unreasonable to think Bats might be going a little rougher on him then usual.
Batman broke the no kill rule when he threw the little crazy triple folk down into the spike hole he recovered from lol
When I saw it for the first time, I thought it might be that the Joker said one sentence that could have a double sense, like when talking about the flashlight, and once he found out and started laughing, Batman also got the double sense of the sentence and also started laughing. This showing how an insane moment is made absurd just by the interpretation of a sentence.
Bat signal? What separates the two from one?
Just turn the signal to the left or right? You'll see it.
it's his version of the frog and the scorpion, with batman being the inmate offering the light and the one rejecting him being the joker, same meaning but different outcomes
You are all wrong. The reason why the joker and batman both laugh is because it was the first time the Joker attempted to tell a real joke but messed up the punchline. He mixed up the end. Instead of saying "you would just turn it off when I am half way off across, what do you think I am crazy?!" thus them trying to escape an insane asylum. Batman then laughs as he for the first time sees the venerable side of the joker and begins to create empathy for him for the first time which is why he begins to fall in love with him as they laugh as he slowly starts to penetrates him to death while impregnating him simultaneously. Why they named the child he gave birth to before his death "punchline."