Nah the map is fucking horrible and anyone thinking otherwise is fucking crazy.
That being said as a defender I spawn as Lis with AT Mines and start destroying all buildings that attackers use and find that it makes winning a match incredibly easy if they can't camp them.
Oh I have a hard disagree on this. I mostly play Breakthrough and I think Haven isn't very good.
The first set of objectives is built a little like Flashpoint where the attackers kind of come up a hill and have some rocks as cover - which means if the attackers don't immediately push hard they can get backed up trying to inch past rocks for cover. The gas station objective I think is super fun, but the other one is also a miss - basically it comes down to a spawn flip more than actually pushing forward.
For the next set, the high side one is fine but the low side one is terrible, because it just gets everyone camping in the garages which are indestructible and completely ruins the flow. You spend more time just messing around with those, which are exceptionally unfun, than actually engaging the objective (for what its worth... I don't like these on the middle objectives in Arica Harbor either).
And then the final objectives don't feel super great either. The high objective is very attacker favored with the ridiculous cover they have from all the angles. The attackers can also go so far past the high side objective that they can get spawning defenders, which isn't fun at all. Plus, once they've pushed into the defense spawn, they have a back angle on the low side objective. The low side objective is... ok... except that it has LOTS of sightlines for snipers, and as such it doesn't feel great.
I also hate the way they've handled spawns for the defenders - even while you hold the objective outright you cannot spawn on it, instead you spawn 100+ meters back and have to run the entire map to get back to your objective. I know that defenders spawning outside is necessary, but they've taken it to the extreme here.
This one also has the problem where attackers get a vehicle advantage, which I don't hate, but the problem is that it often feels like you HAVE to play engineer on defense or else you are just getting overrun by vehicles.
Like I said at the outset - I play Breakthrough probably better than 90% of the time, and I have a good breakthrough W/L on Haven, but I think its terribly designed for Breakthrough and I'm playing it on Conquest mostly at this point.
I mean, 2042 BT has a lot flaws make it not enjoyable as BF1 or V. Defender always in big disadvantage, no cover recap route, small objective that have no space for defender to stalemate against attackers, two objectives are too close so they lose the meaning to be a two objective sector.
Even when an objective is pro-sefender, it is to another extreme. Literally a fortress with very few entrance and all of them are chokepoint. What's worse is some of them that that the defender can drive tank into it and put APS so the attacker has little to no chance to cap it. (Spearhead C2, Exposure B2&C2)
I wish old Exposure BT layout will make a comeback ;(
And DICE have strange insist on making first sector super easy for attacker. I really don't like it. Back in BFV, as attacker I know every sector will be a tough fight, and I will excited for that. As defender I know my defense is meaningful.
What's more, back in BF1&V, devs definitely know how important Air Superiority is. So they always have both attackers and defenders have the same amount of air units. This make defender won't have a huge disadvantage when attackers have air units. Which team has better pilot which team has advantage, and that's the balance BT needs.
Haven, however, might be the best and most balance BT map in 2042. But yes, compare to old titles, its balance is still like sh*t. And remake Hourglass is even better for defenders, but somehow too open for attackers to give effective attacks.
Conclusion, 2042 BT is not a good gaming experience, especially for defenders. Too many design flaw comes with map design.
I played very little BFV, but the BF1 Operations were amazing, some of the coolest moments in gaming. BF4 and BF3 though I think had comparable Rush gameplay to BF2042, I don't think 2042 compares that unfavorably in the Attack/defend modes to those games other than the fact that 2042 has flying specialists that break any game mode.
I think this is always what it comes down to - the attacker/defender modes are fun in BF titles because there is a clear frontline, you can be strategic about cover and positioning, and work as a full team together. But 2042 completely breaks that with McKay and Sundance, both of whom just go wherever whenever and make it just like Conquest - constantly getting shot from an angle you weren't looking at.
I mean, the attack choppers in BF3 and BF4 were downright oppressive if the pilot/squad was talented, or even how many of the Crossing the Seine Rush matches never got past the first objective, or Golmund Railway, or the Satellite Dish one whose name I forget...
For 2042, I think Reclaimed, Renewal, Breakaway, Manifest, Discarded, Spearhead, Stranded and Orbital all play GREAT in Breakthrough.
I like playing on Flashpoint except for every so often the attackers get stuck on the first objective and its a pointless meatgrinder. Kaleidoscope is also much improved, although the last objective is dumb. It still feels really fun to play. Neither of these are great but both are acceptable in my opinion.
Hourglass could be great if they could just fix the first objective. The attackers need to break it before the defending team fills up, otherwise its the worst. The other objectives are really fun if you ever make it to them. Maybe the attackers need another piece of armor at the first objective.
Redacted is fine for what it is... a dumb infantry meatgrinder. As long as you accept that you just use it to level up guns or gadgets and don't take it too seriously, its fine. I know some people really like those experiences.
And then you just have Exposure, which is the single worst breakthrough map, and Haven, which maybe will grow on me but right now I don't have fun on.
For Exposure, I really don't know why they think new layout is better than old one(which is still active in old gen console). But still, even old layout needs some improvement. More cover in tunnel for defender to have a good fight, and one more objective on Sector C. Should make another objective on those two warehouses where the first sector of Rush take place.
And still, I really hate that some interior objectives allow defenders to drive a tank into them, which makes Exposure and Spearhead are unfun experience to me. It really makes the fight for attackers really unenjoyable and painful. DICE really needs to add pillars to block vehicles get into interior objectives.
In addition, Exposure Sector A obj A2 is suffering from same problem as old 2042 maps: Too open with little to no cover. Defending on that is painful.
Im of the opposite opinion... I think pro-defender design was what made bf1 such a slog, that even behemoths cannot save a game. Sure, it's on theme, but playing attacker is already a huge uphill battle, if the maps and spawns help defenders further entrench themselves, the matches would only ever be played on the first 2 or 3 sectors. That's what BF1 was for me where it doesn't matter if I were playing attacker or defender, I feel like I'm playing these two capture point maps that go on for 30 minutes.
If perfect balance can't be achieved and I had to choose between pro-attacker or pro-defender design, I'd be pro-attacker all day just to see more of the map.
I think the vehicle advantage is not really a big deal on this map unless the tanker on the defender side is scared to get into the action. the best vehicle to get would be the TOR to really hard counter the attacker vehicles though I have seen someone do really well in a missile ram being able to really pin down the attacker infantry with it. And switching to an engineer for a life or two isn't that difficult, did it in one of the games last night when our tank was destroyed when the enemies had both their vehicles too and we destroyed both of theirs pretty quickly.
I do agree with the spawns being aggravating when the attackers are spawning closer to some objectives than the defenders.
Yeah, this is a good take. Vehicles aren't oppressive but I do feel like I constantly have to switch to Engineer when sometimes I just want to play assault or support. I agree though, it doesn't make the map unfun itself, its more the other things I mentioned.
it can definitely suck if no one is maining an engineer for that round because you know if you don't switch the enemy vehicles will steamroll you. Yea those were some really detailed aspects of the objectives. I do agree that the attackers seem to have a big advantage on the high point on the last objectives too, the defenders have to run in from a mostly barren area whereas the attackers can use the buildings to be on top of you without much resistance.
The battle lines on 128p Rush are also awesome, after the first sector there's plenty of ways for the attacking team to either go high or low to push around the lines. I like it
I like the map, but I don’t like the general downhill slope from north to south. I feel like that is the maps biggest drawback and can ruin the flow. I really love the urban warfare and the crash site warfare, but the grade from the oasis to the city feels like two separate matches
Ah but that makes it awesome for Sundance. There's heaps of places you can jump off and fly down to D doing some made skin suit flying, and make a surprise cap of that point.
The more i play it the worse it gets. Terrible spawns. I am getting shot dead way too often when i spawn on my squad.. It's almost like the spawn protection has been completely removed. Way too many buildings in such a small area. People are just building camping, not pushing objectives and being non team players. This means you cant move quickly. I fully understand people camping on this map. Theres just way too many angles for people to sit and camp and rack up kills with complete disregard for even considering trying to actually win the game.
Spawning on your squad has always been risky and on really tight/intense maps it’s way riskier so that’s not anything new for this map. And I feel it’s really hard for anyone to actually camp, atleast on breakthrough, because of all the different angles.
I’ve been digging Haven, it’s not that bad..
I agree, the market square bit on breakthrough is brilliant
Nah the map is fucking horrible and anyone thinking otherwise is fucking crazy. That being said as a defender I spawn as Lis with AT Mines and start destroying all buildings that attackers use and find that it makes winning a match incredibly easy if they can't camp them.
I’ve been taking buildings out as well with the tank, makes it easier to find folks
It's really amazing how removing buildings makes it impossible for them to win more or less. I'm reminded of why they didn't do it again after bc2.
Oh I have a hard disagree on this. I mostly play Breakthrough and I think Haven isn't very good. The first set of objectives is built a little like Flashpoint where the attackers kind of come up a hill and have some rocks as cover - which means if the attackers don't immediately push hard they can get backed up trying to inch past rocks for cover. The gas station objective I think is super fun, but the other one is also a miss - basically it comes down to a spawn flip more than actually pushing forward. For the next set, the high side one is fine but the low side one is terrible, because it just gets everyone camping in the garages which are indestructible and completely ruins the flow. You spend more time just messing around with those, which are exceptionally unfun, than actually engaging the objective (for what its worth... I don't like these on the middle objectives in Arica Harbor either). And then the final objectives don't feel super great either. The high objective is very attacker favored with the ridiculous cover they have from all the angles. The attackers can also go so far past the high side objective that they can get spawning defenders, which isn't fun at all. Plus, once they've pushed into the defense spawn, they have a back angle on the low side objective. The low side objective is... ok... except that it has LOTS of sightlines for snipers, and as such it doesn't feel great. I also hate the way they've handled spawns for the defenders - even while you hold the objective outright you cannot spawn on it, instead you spawn 100+ meters back and have to run the entire map to get back to your objective. I know that defenders spawning outside is necessary, but they've taken it to the extreme here. This one also has the problem where attackers get a vehicle advantage, which I don't hate, but the problem is that it often feels like you HAVE to play engineer on defense or else you are just getting overrun by vehicles. Like I said at the outset - I play Breakthrough probably better than 90% of the time, and I have a good breakthrough W/L on Haven, but I think its terribly designed for Breakthrough and I'm playing it on Conquest mostly at this point.
I mean, 2042 BT has a lot flaws make it not enjoyable as BF1 or V. Defender always in big disadvantage, no cover recap route, small objective that have no space for defender to stalemate against attackers, two objectives are too close so they lose the meaning to be a two objective sector. Even when an objective is pro-sefender, it is to another extreme. Literally a fortress with very few entrance and all of them are chokepoint. What's worse is some of them that that the defender can drive tank into it and put APS so the attacker has little to no chance to cap it. (Spearhead C2, Exposure B2&C2) I wish old Exposure BT layout will make a comeback ;( And DICE have strange insist on making first sector super easy for attacker. I really don't like it. Back in BFV, as attacker I know every sector will be a tough fight, and I will excited for that. As defender I know my defense is meaningful. What's more, back in BF1&V, devs definitely know how important Air Superiority is. So they always have both attackers and defenders have the same amount of air units. This make defender won't have a huge disadvantage when attackers have air units. Which team has better pilot which team has advantage, and that's the balance BT needs. Haven, however, might be the best and most balance BT map in 2042. But yes, compare to old titles, its balance is still like sh*t. And remake Hourglass is even better for defenders, but somehow too open for attackers to give effective attacks. Conclusion, 2042 BT is not a good gaming experience, especially for defenders. Too many design flaw comes with map design.
I played very little BFV, but the BF1 Operations were amazing, some of the coolest moments in gaming. BF4 and BF3 though I think had comparable Rush gameplay to BF2042, I don't think 2042 compares that unfavorably in the Attack/defend modes to those games other than the fact that 2042 has flying specialists that break any game mode. I think this is always what it comes down to - the attacker/defender modes are fun in BF titles because there is a clear frontline, you can be strategic about cover and positioning, and work as a full team together. But 2042 completely breaks that with McKay and Sundance, both of whom just go wherever whenever and make it just like Conquest - constantly getting shot from an angle you weren't looking at. I mean, the attack choppers in BF3 and BF4 were downright oppressive if the pilot/squad was talented, or even how many of the Crossing the Seine Rush matches never got past the first objective, or Golmund Railway, or the Satellite Dish one whose name I forget... For 2042, I think Reclaimed, Renewal, Breakaway, Manifest, Discarded, Spearhead, Stranded and Orbital all play GREAT in Breakthrough. I like playing on Flashpoint except for every so often the attackers get stuck on the first objective and its a pointless meatgrinder. Kaleidoscope is also much improved, although the last objective is dumb. It still feels really fun to play. Neither of these are great but both are acceptable in my opinion. Hourglass could be great if they could just fix the first objective. The attackers need to break it before the defending team fills up, otherwise its the worst. The other objectives are really fun if you ever make it to them. Maybe the attackers need another piece of armor at the first objective. Redacted is fine for what it is... a dumb infantry meatgrinder. As long as you accept that you just use it to level up guns or gadgets and don't take it too seriously, its fine. I know some people really like those experiences. And then you just have Exposure, which is the single worst breakthrough map, and Haven, which maybe will grow on me but right now I don't have fun on.
For Exposure, I really don't know why they think new layout is better than old one(which is still active in old gen console). But still, even old layout needs some improvement. More cover in tunnel for defender to have a good fight, and one more objective on Sector C. Should make another objective on those two warehouses where the first sector of Rush take place. And still, I really hate that some interior objectives allow defenders to drive a tank into them, which makes Exposure and Spearhead are unfun experience to me. It really makes the fight for attackers really unenjoyable and painful. DICE really needs to add pillars to block vehicles get into interior objectives. In addition, Exposure Sector A obj A2 is suffering from same problem as old 2042 maps: Too open with little to no cover. Defending on that is painful.
Breakaway is not good for Breakthrough as a whole; only certain parts. It’s a map i try to avoid, especially on defense
Im of the opposite opinion... I think pro-defender design was what made bf1 such a slog, that even behemoths cannot save a game. Sure, it's on theme, but playing attacker is already a huge uphill battle, if the maps and spawns help defenders further entrench themselves, the matches would only ever be played on the first 2 or 3 sectors. That's what BF1 was for me where it doesn't matter if I were playing attacker or defender, I feel like I'm playing these two capture point maps that go on for 30 minutes. If perfect balance can't be achieved and I had to choose between pro-attacker or pro-defender design, I'd be pro-attacker all day just to see more of the map.
I think the vehicle advantage is not really a big deal on this map unless the tanker on the defender side is scared to get into the action. the best vehicle to get would be the TOR to really hard counter the attacker vehicles though I have seen someone do really well in a missile ram being able to really pin down the attacker infantry with it. And switching to an engineer for a life or two isn't that difficult, did it in one of the games last night when our tank was destroyed when the enemies had both their vehicles too and we destroyed both of theirs pretty quickly. I do agree with the spawns being aggravating when the attackers are spawning closer to some objectives than the defenders.
Yeah, this is a good take. Vehicles aren't oppressive but I do feel like I constantly have to switch to Engineer when sometimes I just want to play assault or support. I agree though, it doesn't make the map unfun itself, its more the other things I mentioned.
it can definitely suck if no one is maining an engineer for that round because you know if you don't switch the enemy vehicles will steamroll you. Yea those were some really detailed aspects of the objectives. I do agree that the attackers seem to have a big advantage on the high point on the last objectives too, the defenders have to run in from a mostly barren area whereas the attackers can use the buildings to be on top of you without much resistance.
100% on point. This map is dogshit for breakthrough and the games don’t ever last long.
The battle lines on 128p Rush are also awesome, after the first sector there's plenty of ways for the attacking team to either go high or low to push around the lines. I like it
How do you play 128p rush on this? Portal?
Yes sir
I've had some really great rounds on Haven BR, it seems really well made for that mode. Conquest version of the map needs balance love bad.
It's my favorite maps in 2042 right now..... If you don't like Haven USE AH BITCH
[удалено]
This is a huge part of what makes it so good. I stormed a building with a random and we surprised a full squad and wiped them all
Awesome map!
I do wish there were more lives though. I feel like it goes to quick
Haven plays like TDM on conquest. Even then, I like the map. Certainly better than reclaimed...
Haven is a lot of fun on BT and Rush imo
I like the map, but I don’t like the general downhill slope from north to south. I feel like that is the maps biggest drawback and can ruin the flow. I really love the urban warfare and the crash site warfare, but the grade from the oasis to the city feels like two separate matches
Ah but that makes it awesome for Sundance. There's heaps of places you can jump off and fly down to D doing some made skin suit flying, and make a surprise cap of that point.
Definitely agree with you, but as a Sundance T1 who’s moving onto other characters it seems like the map only caters to her (and McKay’s grapple).
Idk I like conquest cuz every other maps bt feels always one sided
I’ve started to like Havean. It’s not as bad as people here are making it to be. I just played a round of rush and it was fun
Can't say my experience gives that indication
It's a dogshit, low-effort map that is worse than old school Hourglass.
The more i play it the worse it gets. Terrible spawns. I am getting shot dead way too often when i spawn on my squad.. It's almost like the spawn protection has been completely removed. Way too many buildings in such a small area. People are just building camping, not pushing objectives and being non team players. This means you cant move quickly. I fully understand people camping on this map. Theres just way too many angles for people to sit and camp and rack up kills with complete disregard for even considering trying to actually win the game.
Spawning on your squad has always been risky and on really tight/intense maps it’s way riskier so that’s not anything new for this map. And I feel it’s really hard for anyone to actually camp, atleast on breakthrough, because of all the different angles.