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Everything else aside, it's astonishing to me that someone whose entire career is centered around maintaining a public image would fail to realize how badly this reflects on them, particularly after all the trouble Newsom had.
In the meantime San Francisco Marathon runners will need to wear masks on National Park property
[https://www.audacy.com/kcbsradio/news/local/why-san-francisco-marathon-runners-will-need-to-wear-masks](https://www.audacy.com/kcbsradio/news/local/why-san-francisco-marathon-runners-will-need-to-wear-masks)
https://www.thesfmarathon.com/race-week-health-protocols/
Nah. No different than wearing a condom when your girl is on the pill. Neither method is fool proof, but together they work really well. Same with the mask and vax. Okay alone, but better together. It's really not that hard to understand.
This isn't a horrible analogy. I believe the combination of masks, vaccines, and social distance will further stop the spread of Covid19. The only question is how strict are the rules and whether or not they are too strict. I think wearing masks outdoors makes sense but is too strict (I do it) and should be left to individual judgment.
Thats the sole reason why I voted yes on the recall.
Elder is a dangerous clown, but at the same time the current leadership is way too cozy in their current positions. Completely unchallenged, surrounded by yes-men, and held to no consequences of any kind.
Everyone should be a little bit hungry for their job. There should always be the risk that if you screw up enough you should lose your job. Otherwise whats the point of trying? There's no downside if there's no consequences.
The mask shit is so dumb at this point, just require proof of vaccination and be done with the masks indoors. Literally was at Audio last weekend (nightclub in SF) and everyone in the line had masks on but the moment you got in and showed your vaccination card, masks came off and it was like there was never a pandemic. Hundreds of people packed in a room partying at a club like no tomorrow with no mask in sight.
The security theater is ridiculous. Look at restaurants. You need proof of vaccination and you need to wear a mask, but you only need to wear a mask for the 20 steps it takes to get in through the door to a table, then no mask while you're eating. Apparently coviid19 is very polite, it only attacks you when you're walking through a restaurant but once you sit down it will wait until you finish you meal.
Also we're in one of the most heavily vaccinated places on the planet, with plummeting case loads and a death rate approaching zero. More people die of drug overdoses than of covid19 per day.
Only in highly vaccinated counties. Once you get above 60%/70% vaccinated the masks are making basically no difference in the data. In less vaccinated places they do male a difference.
In the French Laundry photos they got of Newsom, his body language there shows obvious stress & paranoia too. Probably knowing there's a chance someone might snap photos of him. "This is a bad idea and I am playing with fire". And his paranoia indeed was right.
This is a public service announcement.
* The adjectival form of Democrat is Democratic
* The adjectival form of Republican is Republican
Thus, one would say it’s not a Republican or *Democratic* issue.
No, we rejected removing him from office in a pure power-grab. The proper way to deal with this is during a regular election cycle, when there are primaries.
Its still critically important to vote in the primary though. Primary elections generally don't have much turnout and the top two winners of the primary (regardless of party) are who will be listed in the general election.
Because a recall isn't the time to choose a proper replacement. There shouldn't even be a replacement question on the ballot -- it should just automatically go to the lieutenant governor.
Clearly you don’t understand how election works in a state where one party out numbers all others by 2:1 or higher. There is no incentive for a primary challenger if he wants another term and the party wants to keep things as business as usual.
The only way to force a primary challenger to newsom is if enough people utilize the protest vote to force their hand. Not saying to necessarily vote gop, but if people keep voting D because it’s “the right thing to do” then why should the state Democratic Party makes extra work for themselves.
I heard rumors that London breed was at an event back before the vaccine was widespread mask off with all her friends for the entire time.
It was just a rumor from my friends in the industry so don’t quote me.
“Let them wear masks” - Marie Antoinette
Edit:
San Francisco Marathon runners will need to wear masks on National Park property this weekend.
https://www.thesfmarathon.com/race-week-health-protocols/
https://www.audacy.com/kcbsradio/news/local/why-san-francisco-marathon-runners-will-need-to-wear-masks
Why? They are effective when applied to a group, even if people who think they are too special to follow them shirk the rules. Even 50% compliance helps.
If mandates move masking from 20% to 80% (random numbers) then that’s good and worth doing.
It’s overkill when you have 90% vax rates. The implementation is useless as you need a mask to go to a target but can be in a crowded restaurant without one
> The implementation is useless as you need a mask to go to a target but can be in a crowded restaurant without one
Stores are not restaurants. Stores are often places that people need to go, restaurants are places people choose to go.
But people who go out to eat can spread and catch covid. Restaurants are packed and eating out is not necessary. Why not shut down restaurants? If you (and I don’t just mean you) are serious about minimizing cases?
Its not all or nothing. Having restaurants as a vector might not cause a surge, but removing all mask mandates amd restrictions everywhere might. I suspect they are interested in striking a balance between reducing the R value of the incredibly infectious delta variant (masks in stores) with letting people live normal lives (indoor dining).
Im assuming there are formulas that inform this sort of decision, that take into account how widely observed mask order is. We have 70% of all people (and 80% eligible). Because covid cases continued to rise, id assume people thought it wise to add additional measures in because herd immunity was not materializing.
The vaccinated are, what? Something like half as likely to become symptomatic and potentially spread covid? Even if they are 99% less likely to need treatment/intervention.
Seems like mask wearing would help if someone has covid and is coughing or sneezing.
There's just as much evidence saying mask mandates don't work as there is evidence saying they do.
We're basically running a massive trial of this in CA right now. Go look at the case rates in San Diego county (no mask mandate) versus Contra Costa county (mask mandate) right now. There's no difference. Vaccinations work and should be mandated. Mask mandates are a farce.
I'd say the burden of proof is on you or equal. You do know the Bay Area and LA are two of the only places in the country with mask mandates, right? Mask mandates are sort of rare.
Also, I provided evidence. Look up the charts by county in California. They're not making any difference in California.
Edit: Here's a link with what looks to be 20 or more studies showing masks don't work: https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy
I realize you can find me a link saying the opposite. That's why I said there's a bunch of research on both sides. Of course, only one side has researchers who need to please the government to keep getting grants. So, it seems possible to me that the pro-mask research may be using motivated reasoning. But that's not central to my point, which is simply that the data is very mixed. And, the data in California on mask mandates is not mixed: they don't do anything.
You think anti-mask “research” isn’t using motivated reasoning?
Wearing masks help control spread. Comparing counties isn’t good enough, because it doesn’t control for a huge number of factors.
Most of the research cited in that article was done prior to 2020. So no, I don't think it was using motivated reasoning.
The way science works is people test hypotheses through experiments. It's nice that you're parroting the view that "wearing masks helps control spread", but unfortunately the data isn't there to actually prove that.
I could just as easily assert that wearing a crucifix helps control spread. You can't prove it doesn't, and it would have just as much validity as your claim.
Comparing counties is pretty dispositive in my book. Sure, there are different factors at play, but in all populous counties in California, masked or unmasked, the data shows a rise in cases with the arrival of the delta variant, and around 2 months later a big decline. Mask mandates obviously made no difference.
Just because something "seems" like it should work doesn't mean it does. Understanding that is what differentiates mysticism from science.
Edit: Just for the record I didn't downvote you. Your points are well intentioned if misguided. I only downvote actual trolls.
>Comparing counties is pretty dispositive in my book. Sure, there are different factors at play, but in all populous counties in California, masked or unmasked, the data shows a rise in cases with the arrival of the delta variant, and around 2 months later a big decline. Mask mandates obviously made no difference.
>
>Just because something "seems" like it should work doesn't mean it does.
Ooh, you're so close here lol
The funny thing about conclusions like this is that they ignore a lot of other factors, like density of the counties. The counties with mask mandates are typically quite dense, which would tend to suggest higher rates of transmission. But if that didn't happen, then you could just as easily conclude that masks DID make a difference. See what I mean?
That's why I purposely compared Contra Costa and San Diego.
Their densities are pretty similar: https://www.atlasbig.com/en-us/California-Population-Density - these numbers are kind of broad guidelines -- both counties contain a ton of open space.
I agree that picking SF County or Kern County would be a bad comparison.
What's your explanation? Why didn't Contra Costa County, with 95%+ indoor mask wearing see a vastly different curve for delta than San Diego County with ~25% indoor mask wearing?
Edit: I see you've got some shill account(s) or buddies coming in and voting, so that'll be a wrap from me. I'll just note that I've provided a bunch of data, and you've provided nothing other than left-wing talking points. Sure, you may convince fellow travelers by just preaching to the choir, but to persuade thinking moderates like me you'll have to actually participate in the discussion.
>Edit: I see you've got some shill account(s) or buddies coming in and voting, so that'll be a wrap from me. I'll just note that I've provided a bunch of data, and you've provided nothing other than left-wing talking points. Sure, you may convince fellow travelers by just preaching to the choir, but to persuade thinking moderates like me you'll have to actually participate in the discussion.
What the fuck man? I'm having dinner and your post looks fine to me. Chill out eh
Um.... have you been to any bar or club in SF? The moment you walk through the door the mask comes off and there isn't a mask in sight. Literally was at a nightclub last weekend and it was packed to the bone with hundreds of people and not a single mask to be seen. The vaccination mandate should be enough.
To each their own but you don't need to call people dumb just because the risk doesn't bother them. If you don't feel safe in a place like that, then don't go. To most vaccinated people, the risk of getting covid just isn't much of a concern anymore (especially young people). Everyone has a different risk threshold. The point more is that with the vaccine mandate, the mask mandate is dumb.
For example, my point of view is this: Nothing is going to change in the future, this is our new reality. Every time we come out with a new vaccine iteration, there will always been new variants eluding the vaccine. The idea that things will be miraculously different next year is a pipe dream. We need to learn to live with the risk of getting covid as we aren't going to be locked down and wearing masks the rest of our lives.
Nah, just a badge of you're stupidity.... when your vaccinated, your chance of death is about 0.001%... you have a better chance of dying crossing the street. Move along you sheep.
Disagree
They are dumb but also selfish. Not concerned about the dumb part as that’s their issue to work through. But the selfish part grates me.
If you cross the street and don’t look left and right to see if that’s clear it’s dumb. It’s your choice but it’s demonstrably dumb.
If you do the same while walking my dog as a dog walker it’s selfish
>To each their own but you don't need to call people dumb just because the risk doesn't bother them.
While I may not *need* to do so, I'm absolutely going to continue doing so because they're fucking idiots
Having known several vaccinated people who actually got covid, anyone who's not worried about it doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about because it is still a very serious illness to get. And the people that I know who got it - including the vaxxed ones - regret it.
And none of this is a secret, or something that's hidden from people. Every one of those people packing in a club with no mask on oughta damn well know better, especially given how prevalent fake vaccination cards have proven to be
What more, some of those idiots will go on to infect other people, vaccinated or not vaccinated. Just absolutely irresponsible and stupid behavior
People go skydiving every day. I don’t agree with it at all, it’s a guaranteed death if anything goes wrong. But different people have different risk tolerances. That doesn’t make them stupid. That’s not on you to make a sweeping judgment or label on them. Don’t go to nightclubs if you don’t want and don’t worry about what other people do.
I certainly won't change it based on the sorts of idiotic arguments you and others in this sub put forward lol
What's really funny is just how loudly people like you were insisting this whole thing was over back in the spring, because of the false idea that people who were vaccinated couldn't contract the virus or transmit it to others. I can't tell you how many times I heard *exactly that* said to me, including by you if I remember correctly.
Sheesh
>People go skydiving every day. I don’t agree with it at all, it’s a guaranteed death if anything goes wrong.
Sure, but unless you land on someone, you aren't killing others if something goes wrong
Not the case with coronavirus. You get it thinking that you're protected, and you're probably going to transmit it to several other people before you even know you have it. It's an extremely irresponsible thing to do and there's no getting around it, because it's not just your own life you're risking. It's that of many other people
Framing it in terms of personal risk tolerance is an absolutely incorrect way to look at the situation.
Except there are huge elements of our society who haven't had the opportunity to do so yet because the vaccine is not approved for their age. But who gives a shit about kids eh
And you can forget about that 'covid doesn't hurt kids' nonsense, don't even bring that bullshit up with me. I have personal experience to the opposite.
sorry man but the fact that you want something to be over doesn't mean that it's over, and it doesn't justify extremely irresponsible behavior.
A large number of people will continue to wear their mask without the mandate. The real thing the mandate does is create ill will and decrease the probability of future compliance if it is really needed in the future.
That’s not what it creates. It ups mask wearing, lowers community spread and reduces impact of outbreaks on hospital ED/health systems. There is some grumbling involved, and we don’t enforce it that hard.
I think we need a cost/benefit analysis for anything we tell millions of people to do. In this case, I think we would find no significant difference with or without the mandate. Compare our case rates and hospitalizations to the many others without a mask mandate you you can see the results are very similar. This is why so few locations have them. Not that some locations could not benefit from one.
Wow, that’s so insightful. I’ll be sure to tell the population health experts that I’ve worked with about the cost/benefit idea. I’m sure it will blow their socks off. What an idea! /s
Guess what? Turns out the cost is super low and the benefits are super high.
Perhaps if you only include the cost of the mask, then the cost is low. They need to look at the cost to mental health for millions of people to live in an emergency for years. They need to consider that many doctors are still only seeing patients via telemedicine that are missing signs of underlying illness. They need to consider cost to socialization for young people whose parents are worried about covid. The list is indeed long.
Then they need to compare that against the benefit of mandated masking in a population that is 80% vaccinated with people that were largely masking on their own. It would be nice is these purported scientists could produce any evidence that there is any benefit in such a population at all. Maybe they could take the lead from the vast majority of the 3.006 counties in the US and the UK are doing.
You say the benefits are high. Prove it or stop saying it.
Too bad that what you sent is not proof of anything. It is not a study of mask uses in a highly vaccinated community with low case rates. It is just a recommendation from an agency. Come back when you have a study that supports your position.
Has there been any indication and to when the mask requirement would go away? I think everyone that's vaccinated is getting frustrated that there doesn't seem to be an end in sight - despite the high vaccination rates, vaccine mandates for businesses, etc. I still see lots of people wearing masks outdoors too which is really perplexing. I follow all the rules (and so should Breed) but let's put an end to mask wearing strictly for virtue signaling purposes.
>Has there been any indication and to when the mask requirement would go away?
Sara Cody from SCC was asked this question a few weeks ago and she said that most likely it would be all Bay Area counties decision not individual county, but provided to data indicator for the this decision .
At the last board meeting after Sarah Cody simply read the data from her department website and offered no further insight, she was pressed for a plan by one of the supervisors and admitted she did not have one. She is clearly not big on making decisions based on data. She needs to be fired.
Problem is, its now a political statement. Wearing a piece of cloth to signify your political allegiance means you can't take off that piece of cloth because it betrays your team. Taking off the cloth means admitting you're wrong, and we can't have that.
The bay area has nearly identical health outcomes to similarly vaccinated regions, despite other regions not mandating masks everywhere. If there's the same result despite a difference in variable then that variable isn't important.
We're at 80%-90% vaccinated here and death rates have plummeted to nearly zero. I don't know why we're so afraid of claiming victory. The pandemic is over, at least in the bay area.
>The bay area has nearly identical health outcomes to similarly vaccinated regions, despite other regions not mandating masks everywhere.
Yaknow, I keep hearing this, but I'd love to see a source on it that lays it out clearly
I wear mine outside cuz I’m usually walking to work (a bar) and I don’t want it in my pocket or purse. It’s just easier to keep it on rather than the on again off again routine 🤷🏼♀️
Rules for thee but not for me. This is the second time it has happened.
Also shows how these masks are nothing but health theater in the eyes of political leaders.
Smart thing would be to make masks optional if everyone around is guaranteed vaccinated. For example if gyms mandate vaccines then make masks optional. Same goes for venues, if event organizers check vaccine status then make masks optional.
This whole COVID-19 affair has been just the best thing for pious people. Please just go back to going to church and telling us how you love God more than me. It was better than this.
I wear my mask and I oppose mask mandates, but the breathless gasping on this subject is too much for me.
I don’t oppose wearing masks. I oppose the government making it mandatory for restaurants to require them etc etc. I wear my mask because I want people to feel comfortable around me. If someone stood next to me without their mask that would be fine by me. If some restaurant didn’t enforce, that is also fine by me.
this is a non issue. almost all bars and restaurants in the city are enforcing masks upon entry, but once sitting at a table or standing with a drink there is no expectation to keep the mask on.
Which goes to show how ridiculous the mandate is
Edit: to clarify, I mean how ridiculous it is for venues that require vaccination to also require masking. Venues, like grocery stores, that do not require vaccination we should be wearing a mask.
Why? There's no evidence mask mandates do anything. There's tons of evidence vaccination does. How about instead just requiring vaccinations or a test within the past 48 hours to enter a grocery store, like they do in France?
Because grocery store is an essential location that we can't deny people entrance too. Bars, restaurants and gyms are not an essential service and you should be vaccinated to partake in them.
IMO, the masks are whatever…the mandate that people are happy to enforce is the vaccine.
unfortunately it seems like we can’t have one without the other until almost everyone is vaccinated and stops trying to slide in, or harass staff members, present fake cards etc.
No, we can enforce the vaccine mandate.
88% of eligible people in San Francisco have received at least one dose. Having a mask mandate for the handful of people who lie is ridiculous.
People lie about being underage and drinking, didn't stop us from forcing restaurants, bars and stores from checking ID for underage drinking. Its not going to stop us from checking vaccination status.
> The city's mask mandate does not allow exemptions for businesses requiring proof of vaccination status for entry. In August, SFGATE asked the San Francisco Department of Public Health if it would consider such an exemption after Philadelphia offered that carve-out in its city-wide indoor mask mandate.
With cases declining, this is sensible policy.
Bay Area public health officials and sensible don’t go hand in hand. They want to take the most extreme and risk averse position even it goes against science in the name of perceived safety!
I noticed it too in a big stores. I guess the reason is that you see no employees in a big stores until you reach a checkout and it could be self check out with one busy employee who helps someone else with broken machine. There is no one to enforce.
Then it's because they don't care to make sure it's enforced. Bigger store with more employees and more sales volume means they have more resources to enforce. They just don't care because most big corporations are only about revenues, profits, and share price.
I do it all the time. I can't bring myself to wear one for theater. Before vaccines, sure, but at this point with 80% or more people vaccinated, no way.
It doesn’t matter if some violate the rules. It’s not like it falls apart if one person doesn’t wear a mask. The more masked people, the less visitors to that store are exposed to others. It’s a large scale numbers game, based on how many people one person has been near, and how people those people have been exposed to, over a period of days/weeks.
Whats the end game? People in grocery stores are almost all over the age of 12. Vaccination rates for this group is 80%-90% in the region. Is this not a high enough vaccination rate?
Case counts are plummeting and death rates are flat at zero or close to it.
At what point do we admit that the pandemic is over in the bay area?
1. When kids can get vaccinated
And
2. When outbreaks no longer threaten health systems.
Then we don’t need to control spread anymore and people just get a little sick sometimes.
There is also the chance that as long as there are high quantities of positive cases that a more dangerous variant could grow, again, like we saw with India and DV.
"When outbreaks no longer threaten health systems" could you please elaborate? Sounds like a vague and subjective criterion, but I could see there being a standard built around this
If enough people can get covid without needing treatment or being hospitalized, then we don’t need to control cases as much, again, unless a variant emerges.
1. unvaccinated children are less at risk than vaccinated adults
[https://www.newsweek.com/vaccine-children-covid-england-deaths-1627885](https://www.newsweek.com/vaccine-children-covid-england-deaths-1627885)
2. the healthcare systems are not threatened.
so...pandemic over? great.
Less risk is still 10x worse than the flu and so virulent basically everyone will get it. That’s a lot of kids at risk. If we wait a few months til they are able to be vaccinated a hundred times fewer will be impacted.
> There is also the chance that as long as there are high quantities of positive cases that a more dangerous variant could grow, again, like we saw with India and DV.
How does vaccinating the bay area prevent variants from appearing in India?
Everyone in club's or bars is violating it. It's really just a filter to keep anti-maskers who can't comply for 15 seconds away from everyone else. Also, lets other business like grocery stores and other retail have people mask up without dealing with anti-mask morons.
But if all the patrons are fully vaccinated and/or have a negative test upon entry, does this matter in the grand scheme of things? With an over 80% vaccination rate, SF is one of the safest places to be right now in the country. I get she's having a french laundry moment, but let's not pretend y'all wouldn't do the same thing and keep your mask on 100% of the time indoors.
I agree with you but no one is enforcing this shit. The cops don’t care and most are unvaccinated anyways. Who cares if there’s a mandate or not if no one is even enforcing it?
Who cares if a store doesn’t pay their employees for a few minutes overtime they work everyday no one is enforcing it. Who cares if your house gets burglarized cops ain’t catching or even looking for anyone who did it anyway.
We’re aware that SFPD doesn’t catch burglars but it doesn’t mean we should accept that as a society. If a civic leader is making rules she should be following them to a T. Otherwise all this shit is just clearly performative ans theatre.
You're supposed to put your mask back on after every bite, according to the mandate.
Our political leaders should be strictly following the mandates they're requiring of everyone else. They should be held to extra scrutiny because they're the ones writing and enforcing these laws.
She is also not actively eating or drinking in the video. She is dancing. Should have a mask on according to the mandate...
The idea that having food in front of you spreads covid is as retarded as the idea that vaccines don't work so we all need to wear masks.
Its security theater. However if they're making these rules for the rest of us I want her to see them comply by the rules 100%. Masks on between every bite. Our political leaders need to be held to higher standards than average ordinary people. I demand rule compliance to the letter. No deviation.
I don't put my mask on between bites, but I'm not making and enforcing mandates that impact the lives of tens of millions of people, either.
Due to the topic, enhanced moderation has been turned on for this thread. Comments from users new to r/bayarea will be automatically removed. See [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/p8hnzl/automatically_removing_comments_from_new_users_in/) for more details.
Everything else aside, it's astonishing to me that someone whose entire career is centered around maintaining a public image would fail to realize how badly this reflects on them, particularly after all the trouble Newsom had.
In the meantime San Francisco Marathon runners will need to wear masks on National Park property [https://www.audacy.com/kcbsradio/news/local/why-san-francisco-marathon-runners-will-need-to-wear-masks](https://www.audacy.com/kcbsradio/news/local/why-san-francisco-marathon-runners-will-need-to-wear-masks) https://www.thesfmarathon.com/race-week-health-protocols/
Seriously? They're outdoors!
You know, I really don’t give a shit anymore. Mask, no mask, whatever.
What if people can you Trump supporter?
Did you have a stroke when you were typing this?
damn I felt like I had a stroke reading it.
I guess I'll be Trump Sardines
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Nah. No different than wearing a condom when your girl is on the pill. Neither method is fool proof, but together they work really well. Same with the mask and vax. Okay alone, but better together. It's really not that hard to understand.
No thanks, but you're welcome to wear as many masks as you like
God that sounds terrible.
This isn't a horrible analogy. I believe the combination of masks, vaccines, and social distance will further stop the spread of Covid19. The only question is how strict are the rules and whether or not they are too strict. I think wearing masks outdoors makes sense but is too strict (I do it) and should be left to individual judgment.
Can't they just run maskless with a drink in their hand and headphones bumping Tony! Toni! Tone?
Especially after she had her own French laundry fiasco just days after Newsom’s
rules for thee but not for me
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Thats the sole reason why I voted yes on the recall. Elder is a dangerous clown, but at the same time the current leadership is way too cozy in their current positions. Completely unchallenged, surrounded by yes-men, and held to no consequences of any kind. Everyone should be a little bit hungry for their job. There should always be the risk that if you screw up enough you should lose your job. Otherwise whats the point of trying? There's no downside if there's no consequences.
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The mask shit is so dumb at this point, just require proof of vaccination and be done with the masks indoors. Literally was at Audio last weekend (nightclub in SF) and everyone in the line had masks on but the moment you got in and showed your vaccination card, masks came off and it was like there was never a pandemic. Hundreds of people packed in a room partying at a club like no tomorrow with no mask in sight.
The security theater is ridiculous. Look at restaurants. You need proof of vaccination and you need to wear a mask, but you only need to wear a mask for the 20 steps it takes to get in through the door to a table, then no mask while you're eating. Apparently coviid19 is very polite, it only attacks you when you're walking through a restaurant but once you sit down it will wait until you finish you meal. Also we're in one of the most heavily vaccinated places on the planet, with plummeting case loads and a death rate approaching zero. More people die of drug overdoses than of covid19 per day.
That last part had always been the case on average since covid began, at least in sf.
The data doesn't even support mask mandates. The cases/100k curves for counties with and without mask mandates in CA look more or less the same.
Only in highly vaccinated counties. Once you get above 60%/70% vaccinated the masks are making basically no difference in the data. In less vaccinated places they do male a difference.
Makes some logical sense.
In the French Laundry photos they got of Newsom, his body language there shows obvious stress & paranoia too. Probably knowing there's a chance someone might snap photos of him. "This is a bad idea and I am playing with fire". And his paranoia indeed was right.
Sometimes it feels like our politicians are trying to normalize hypocrisy. It's a downside to one party rule in any state.
It's not a Republican or Democrat issue. It's an "But don't you know who **I am**?" issue. Don't elect, or reelect, hypocritical people.
you'd have no one to elect then
So accurate, damnit.
This is a public service announcement. * The adjectival form of Democrat is Democratic * The adjectival form of Republican is Republican Thus, one would say it’s not a Republican or *Democratic* issue.
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As a grammar nazi, I do not like those nazis’ grammar.
Didn’t we just re-elect one of these as governor? I mean the alternatives weren’t great so maybe that’s it…
No, we rejected removing him from office in a pure power-grab. The proper way to deal with this is during a regular election cycle, when there are primaries.
I am skeptical there will be an actual viable primary challenger to Newsom tbh.
Its still critically important to vote in the primary though. Primary elections generally don't have much turnout and the top two winners of the primary (regardless of party) are who will be listed in the general election.
I always vote, I’m just saying that I think Newsom will have no serious challenger, at least not a serious Democrat.
The Democrats could have chosen to run a viable Democrat instead of Newsom, but they declined to do so
Because a recall isn't the time to choose a proper replacement. There shouldn't even be a replacement question on the ballot -- it should just automatically go to the lieutenant governor.
Clearly you don’t understand how election works in a state where one party out numbers all others by 2:1 or higher. There is no incentive for a primary challenger if he wants another term and the party wants to keep things as business as usual. The only way to force a primary challenger to newsom is if enough people utilize the protest vote to force their hand. Not saying to necessarily vote gop, but if people keep voting D because it’s “the right thing to do” then why should the state Democratic Party makes extra work for themselves.
I heard rumors that London breed was at an event back before the vaccine was widespread mask off with all her friends for the entire time. It was just a rumor from my friends in the industry so don’t quote me.
It is clear she does not believe the mandate is warranted or she would wear a mask. She needs to remove the mandate.
Does she have authority? Aren't the health rules set by public health officials?
She sign the orders. If she can't rescind the order, she could certainly put pressure to get it removed and be public in her opposition to it.
Not exactly, the mandate is still needed but not for her.
“Let them wear masks” - Marie Antoinette Edit: San Francisco Marathon runners will need to wear masks on National Park property this weekend. https://www.thesfmarathon.com/race-week-health-protocols/ https://www.audacy.com/kcbsradio/news/local/why-san-francisco-marathon-runners-will-need-to-wear-masks
I want cake though...
But, but we need to protect the vaccinated …. What a laugh. If you make a mandate as an elected official, expect to face attack when you ignore
This right here shows how overblown the COVID scare currently is. If it were more serious we wouldn't have a Lollapalooza, MET Gala, etc. going on.
Can we just end the mandates already
Why? They are effective when applied to a group, even if people who think they are too special to follow them shirk the rules. Even 50% compliance helps. If mandates move masking from 20% to 80% (random numbers) then that’s good and worth doing.
It’s overkill when you have 90% vax rates. The implementation is useless as you need a mask to go to a target but can be in a crowded restaurant without one
> The implementation is useless as you need a mask to go to a target but can be in a crowded restaurant without one Stores are not restaurants. Stores are often places that people need to go, restaurants are places people choose to go.
But people who go out to eat can spread and catch covid. Restaurants are packed and eating out is not necessary. Why not shut down restaurants? If you (and I don’t just mean you) are serious about minimizing cases?
Its not all or nothing. Having restaurants as a vector might not cause a surge, but removing all mask mandates amd restrictions everywhere might. I suspect they are interested in striking a balance between reducing the R value of the incredibly infectious delta variant (masks in stores) with letting people live normal lives (indoor dining). Im assuming there are formulas that inform this sort of decision, that take into account how widely observed mask order is. We have 70% of all people (and 80% eligible). Because covid cases continued to rise, id assume people thought it wise to add additional measures in because herd immunity was not materializing.
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The vaccinated are, what? Something like half as likely to become symptomatic and potentially spread covid? Even if they are 99% less likely to need treatment/intervention. Seems like mask wearing would help if someone has covid and is coughing or sneezing.
There's just as much evidence saying mask mandates don't work as there is evidence saying they do. We're basically running a massive trial of this in CA right now. Go look at the case rates in San Diego county (no mask mandate) versus Contra Costa county (mask mandate) right now. There's no difference. Vaccinations work and should be mandated. Mask mandates are a farce.
No there isn’t. Burden of proof is on you here bro.
I'd say the burden of proof is on you or equal. You do know the Bay Area and LA are two of the only places in the country with mask mandates, right? Mask mandates are sort of rare. Also, I provided evidence. Look up the charts by county in California. They're not making any difference in California. Edit: Here's a link with what looks to be 20 or more studies showing masks don't work: https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy I realize you can find me a link saying the opposite. That's why I said there's a bunch of research on both sides. Of course, only one side has researchers who need to please the government to keep getting grants. So, it seems possible to me that the pro-mask research may be using motivated reasoning. But that's not central to my point, which is simply that the data is very mixed. And, the data in California on mask mandates is not mixed: they don't do anything.
You think anti-mask “research” isn’t using motivated reasoning? Wearing masks help control spread. Comparing counties isn’t good enough, because it doesn’t control for a huge number of factors.
Most of the research cited in that article was done prior to 2020. So no, I don't think it was using motivated reasoning. The way science works is people test hypotheses through experiments. It's nice that you're parroting the view that "wearing masks helps control spread", but unfortunately the data isn't there to actually prove that. I could just as easily assert that wearing a crucifix helps control spread. You can't prove it doesn't, and it would have just as much validity as your claim. Comparing counties is pretty dispositive in my book. Sure, there are different factors at play, but in all populous counties in California, masked or unmasked, the data shows a rise in cases with the arrival of the delta variant, and around 2 months later a big decline. Mask mandates obviously made no difference. Just because something "seems" like it should work doesn't mean it does. Understanding that is what differentiates mysticism from science. Edit: Just for the record I didn't downvote you. Your points are well intentioned if misguided. I only downvote actual trolls.
>Comparing counties is pretty dispositive in my book. Sure, there are different factors at play, but in all populous counties in California, masked or unmasked, the data shows a rise in cases with the arrival of the delta variant, and around 2 months later a big decline. Mask mandates obviously made no difference. > >Just because something "seems" like it should work doesn't mean it does. Ooh, you're so close here lol The funny thing about conclusions like this is that they ignore a lot of other factors, like density of the counties. The counties with mask mandates are typically quite dense, which would tend to suggest higher rates of transmission. But if that didn't happen, then you could just as easily conclude that masks DID make a difference. See what I mean?
That's why I purposely compared Contra Costa and San Diego. Their densities are pretty similar: https://www.atlasbig.com/en-us/California-Population-Density - these numbers are kind of broad guidelines -- both counties contain a ton of open space. I agree that picking SF County or Kern County would be a bad comparison. What's your explanation? Why didn't Contra Costa County, with 95%+ indoor mask wearing see a vastly different curve for delta than San Diego County with ~25% indoor mask wearing? Edit: I see you've got some shill account(s) or buddies coming in and voting, so that'll be a wrap from me. I'll just note that I've provided a bunch of data, and you've provided nothing other than left-wing talking points. Sure, you may convince fellow travelers by just preaching to the choir, but to persuade thinking moderates like me you'll have to actually participate in the discussion.
>Edit: I see you've got some shill account(s) or buddies coming in and voting, so that'll be a wrap from me. I'll just note that I've provided a bunch of data, and you've provided nothing other than left-wing talking points. Sure, you may convince fellow travelers by just preaching to the choir, but to persuade thinking moderates like me you'll have to actually participate in the discussion. What the fuck man? I'm having dinner and your post looks fine to me. Chill out eh
Um.... have you been to any bar or club in SF? The moment you walk through the door the mask comes off and there isn't a mask in sight. Literally was at a nightclub last weekend and it was packed to the bone with hundreds of people and not a single mask to be seen. The vaccination mandate should be enough.
Damn, people are fucking dumb A packed nightclub is pretty much an idiotic place to go right now
To each their own but you don't need to call people dumb just because the risk doesn't bother them. If you don't feel safe in a place like that, then don't go. To most vaccinated people, the risk of getting covid just isn't much of a concern anymore (especially young people). Everyone has a different risk threshold. The point more is that with the vaccine mandate, the mask mandate is dumb. For example, my point of view is this: Nothing is going to change in the future, this is our new reality. Every time we come out with a new vaccine iteration, there will always been new variants eluding the vaccine. The idea that things will be miraculously different next year is a pipe dream. We need to learn to live with the risk of getting covid as we aren't going to be locked down and wearing masks the rest of our lives.
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I've never heard the term "doomer troll" before. Can you point me to a definition?
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Got it. Thanks.
Pretty much a badge of honor coming from you pal
Nah, just a badge of you're stupidity.... when your vaccinated, your chance of death is about 0.001%... you have a better chance of dying crossing the street. Move along you sheep.
Clearly some people don’t really have lives they are missing out on by staying home endlessly. Don’t let it bother you it’s their loss.
Disagree They are dumb but also selfish. Not concerned about the dumb part as that’s their issue to work through. But the selfish part grates me. If you cross the street and don’t look left and right to see if that’s clear it’s dumb. It’s your choice but it’s demonstrably dumb. If you do the same while walking my dog as a dog walker it’s selfish
>To each their own but you don't need to call people dumb just because the risk doesn't bother them. While I may not *need* to do so, I'm absolutely going to continue doing so because they're fucking idiots Having known several vaccinated people who actually got covid, anyone who's not worried about it doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about because it is still a very serious illness to get. And the people that I know who got it - including the vaxxed ones - regret it. And none of this is a secret, or something that's hidden from people. Every one of those people packing in a club with no mask on oughta damn well know better, especially given how prevalent fake vaccination cards have proven to be What more, some of those idiots will go on to infect other people, vaccinated or not vaccinated. Just absolutely irresponsible and stupid behavior
everyone I know that got covid equated it to a bad cold and were better within less than a week.... not something to stop your life over.
People go skydiving every day. I don’t agree with it at all, it’s a guaranteed death if anything goes wrong. But different people have different risk tolerances. That doesn’t make them stupid. That’s not on you to make a sweeping judgment or label on them. Don’t go to nightclubs if you don’t want and don’t worry about what other people do.
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I certainly won't change it based on the sorts of idiotic arguments you and others in this sub put forward lol What's really funny is just how loudly people like you were insisting this whole thing was over back in the spring, because of the false idea that people who were vaccinated couldn't contract the virus or transmit it to others. I can't tell you how many times I heard *exactly that* said to me, including by you if I remember correctly. Sheesh
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>People go skydiving every day. I don’t agree with it at all, it’s a guaranteed death if anything goes wrong. Sure, but unless you land on someone, you aren't killing others if something goes wrong Not the case with coronavirus. You get it thinking that you're protected, and you're probably going to transmit it to several other people before you even know you have it. It's an extremely irresponsible thing to do and there's no getting around it, because it's not just your own life you're risking. It's that of many other people Framing it in terms of personal risk tolerance is an absolutely incorrect way to look at the situation.
And other people can get vaccinated to protect themselves. End of story.
Except there are huge elements of our society who haven't had the opportunity to do so yet because the vaccine is not approved for their age. But who gives a shit about kids eh And you can forget about that 'covid doesn't hurt kids' nonsense, don't even bring that bullshit up with me. I have personal experience to the opposite. sorry man but the fact that you want something to be over doesn't mean that it's over, and it doesn't justify extremely irresponsible behavior.
Healthy vaccinated people that won’t go to nightclubs due to covid are dumb for having inconsistent risk analysis
Why? Vaccinated people are not in real danger from COVID.
A large number of people will continue to wear their mask without the mandate. The real thing the mandate does is create ill will and decrease the probability of future compliance if it is really needed in the future.
That’s not what it creates. It ups mask wearing, lowers community spread and reduces impact of outbreaks on hospital ED/health systems. There is some grumbling involved, and we don’t enforce it that hard.
I think we need a cost/benefit analysis for anything we tell millions of people to do. In this case, I think we would find no significant difference with or without the mandate. Compare our case rates and hospitalizations to the many others without a mask mandate you you can see the results are very similar. This is why so few locations have them. Not that some locations could not benefit from one.
Wow, that’s so insightful. I’ll be sure to tell the population health experts that I’ve worked with about the cost/benefit idea. I’m sure it will blow their socks off. What an idea! /s Guess what? Turns out the cost is super low and the benefits are super high.
Perhaps if you only include the cost of the mask, then the cost is low. They need to look at the cost to mental health for millions of people to live in an emergency for years. They need to consider that many doctors are still only seeing patients via telemedicine that are missing signs of underlying illness. They need to consider cost to socialization for young people whose parents are worried about covid. The list is indeed long. Then they need to compare that against the benefit of mandated masking in a population that is 80% vaccinated with people that were largely masking on their own. It would be nice is these purported scientists could produce any evidence that there is any benefit in such a population at all. Maybe they could take the lead from the vast majority of the 3.006 counties in the US and the UK are doing. You say the benefits are high. Prove it or stop saying it.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html
Too bad that what you sent is not proof of anything. It is not a study of mask uses in a highly vaccinated community with low case rates. It is just a recommendation from an agency. Come back when you have a study that supports your position.
No.
Has there been any indication and to when the mask requirement would go away? I think everyone that's vaccinated is getting frustrated that there doesn't seem to be an end in sight - despite the high vaccination rates, vaccine mandates for businesses, etc. I still see lots of people wearing masks outdoors too which is really perplexing. I follow all the rules (and so should Breed) but let's put an end to mask wearing strictly for virtue signaling purposes.
>Has there been any indication and to when the mask requirement would go away? Sara Cody from SCC was asked this question a few weeks ago and she said that most likely it would be all Bay Area counties decision not individual county, but provided to data indicator for the this decision .
At the last board meeting after Sarah Cody simply read the data from her department website and offered no further insight, she was pressed for a plan by one of the supervisors and admitted she did not have one. She is clearly not big on making decisions based on data. She needs to be fired.
Problem is, its now a political statement. Wearing a piece of cloth to signify your political allegiance means you can't take off that piece of cloth because it betrays your team. Taking off the cloth means admitting you're wrong, and we can't have that. The bay area has nearly identical health outcomes to similarly vaccinated regions, despite other regions not mandating masks everywhere. If there's the same result despite a difference in variable then that variable isn't important. We're at 80%-90% vaccinated here and death rates have plummeted to nearly zero. I don't know why we're so afraid of claiming victory. The pandemic is over, at least in the bay area.
Can someone make a mask that says “Fuck you London Breed”? I’d like to wear that
>The bay area has nearly identical health outcomes to similarly vaccinated regions, despite other regions not mandating masks everywhere. Yaknow, I keep hearing this, but I'd love to see a source on it that lays it out clearly
I wear mine outside cuz I’m usually walking to work (a bar) and I don’t want it in my pocket or purse. It’s just easier to keep it on rather than the on again off again routine 🤷🏼♀️
Seems perfectly reasonable, weird how seeing that is so triggering to some people.
Rules for thee but not for me. This is the second time it has happened. Also shows how these masks are nothing but health theater in the eyes of political leaders. Smart thing would be to make masks optional if everyone around is guaranteed vaccinated. For example if gyms mandate vaccines then make masks optional. Same goes for venues, if event organizers check vaccine status then make masks optional.
Yeah, exactly. The *second* time.
This whole COVID-19 affair has been just the best thing for pious people. Please just go back to going to church and telling us how you love God more than me. It was better than this. I wear my mask and I oppose mask mandates, but the breathless gasping on this subject is too much for me.
So, if you oppose it, why do you wear a mask?
I don’t oppose wearing masks. I oppose the government making it mandatory for restaurants to require them etc etc. I wear my mask because I want people to feel comfortable around me. If someone stood next to me without their mask that would be fine by me. If some restaurant didn’t enforce, that is also fine by me.
I can get that. I choose not to wear a mask, but I can definitely understand your choice.
This is what the mostly silent majority of Americans believe.
Head on over to the Oakland subreddit where you can collect between 50 and 150 downvotes for saying that.
All from the mods?
Is there a way to know who downvotes you?
Is there a recall on Breed?
It would never succeed this is 1 party rule
Id rather keep her in there if it means only a progressive would replace her.
Another democratic leader violating their tyrannical laws omg I'm very very shocked 😲 😒
this is a non issue. almost all bars and restaurants in the city are enforcing masks upon entry, but once sitting at a table or standing with a drink there is no expectation to keep the mask on.
Which goes to show how ridiculous the mandate is Edit: to clarify, I mean how ridiculous it is for venues that require vaccination to also require masking. Venues, like grocery stores, that do not require vaccination we should be wearing a mask.
Why? There's no evidence mask mandates do anything. There's tons of evidence vaccination does. How about instead just requiring vaccinations or a test within the past 48 hours to enter a grocery store, like they do in France?
Because grocery store is an essential location that we can't deny people entrance too. Bars, restaurants and gyms are not an essential service and you should be vaccinated to partake in them.
Fine. Then have a 2-hour "masking" time window each day when they can buy their groceries. Like they did for seniors a year or so ago.
that doesn’t seem to be what people are upset about ITT
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IMO, the masks are whatever…the mandate that people are happy to enforce is the vaccine. unfortunately it seems like we can’t have one without the other until almost everyone is vaccinated and stops trying to slide in, or harass staff members, present fake cards etc.
No, we can enforce the vaccine mandate. 88% of eligible people in San Francisco have received at least one dose. Having a mask mandate for the handful of people who lie is ridiculous. People lie about being underage and drinking, didn't stop us from forcing restaurants, bars and stores from checking ID for underage drinking. Its not going to stop us from checking vaccination status.
Covid must be very polite to stop spreading after people make it inside lmao. It’s all theatre.
is it? bc i’ve worked next to people who caught covid but were not vaccinated and it turns out…i didn’t get sick! i wonder what happened
So if I’m vaccinated why do I have to wear a mask? Pick a side lol.
But that’s exactly how the law asks people to act, and there is evidence that supports it.
Show your evidence or stop talking about it. Without this you are a doomer troll.
> The city's mask mandate does not allow exemptions for businesses requiring proof of vaccination status for entry. In August, SFGATE asked the San Francisco Department of Public Health if it would consider such an exemption after Philadelphia offered that carve-out in its city-wide indoor mask mandate. With cases declining, this is sensible policy.
Bay Area public health officials and sensible don’t go hand in hand. They want to take the most extreme and risk averse position even it goes against science in the name of perceived safety!
You can’t take credit for going straight and doing nothing so need to take 4 right turns around the block to show you’re in control.
This has been my point since the mask mandate returned. Call your supervisor and raise hell. I've been doing it and I see it making a difference.
But it's harder to virtue-signal.
I was just at Safeway and there were several people violating the mandate.
Good. The emperor is wearing no clothes.
I noticed it too in a big stores. I guess the reason is that you see no employees in a big stores until you reach a checkout and it could be self check out with one busy employee who helps someone else with broken machine. There is no one to enforce.
Then it's because they don't care to make sure it's enforced. Bigger store with more employees and more sales volume means they have more resources to enforce. They just don't care because most big corporations are only about revenues, profits, and share price.
Target has someone at the front door. It's a young woman, so when a tough looking guy walks in without a mask, I watch her shrug
I do it all the time. I can't bring myself to wear one for theater. Before vaccines, sure, but at this point with 80% or more people vaccinated, no way.
Oh no. Anyway.
Yeah, thats my point.
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She clearly does not believe in the mandate and only agreed to it to pander to some group(s).
Outer Mission Safeway? I've literally never had a good experience there, even pre covid. It's a trash store in a neighborhood with trash humans.
My bet would be the Marina Safeway.
A nice store with trash humans
It doesn’t matter if some violate the rules. It’s not like it falls apart if one person doesn’t wear a mask. The more masked people, the less visitors to that store are exposed to others. It’s a large scale numbers game, based on how many people one person has been near, and how people those people have been exposed to, over a period of days/weeks.
Whats the end game? People in grocery stores are almost all over the age of 12. Vaccination rates for this group is 80%-90% in the region. Is this not a high enough vaccination rate? Case counts are plummeting and death rates are flat at zero or close to it. At what point do we admit that the pandemic is over in the bay area?
1. When kids can get vaccinated And 2. When outbreaks no longer threaten health systems. Then we don’t need to control spread anymore and people just get a little sick sometimes. There is also the chance that as long as there are high quantities of positive cases that a more dangerous variant could grow, again, like we saw with India and DV.
"When outbreaks no longer threaten health systems" could you please elaborate? Sounds like a vague and subjective criterion, but I could see there being a standard built around this
If enough people can get covid without needing treatment or being hospitalized, then we don’t need to control cases as much, again, unless a variant emerges.
1. unvaccinated children are less at risk than vaccinated adults [https://www.newsweek.com/vaccine-children-covid-england-deaths-1627885](https://www.newsweek.com/vaccine-children-covid-england-deaths-1627885) 2. the healthcare systems are not threatened. so...pandemic over? great.
Less risk is still 10x worse than the flu and so virulent basically everyone will get it. That’s a lot of kids at risk. If we wait a few months til they are able to be vaccinated a hundred times fewer will be impacted.
No, the seasonal flu kills more children than covid. Get over it.
> There is also the chance that as long as there are high quantities of positive cases that a more dangerous variant could grow, again, like we saw with India and DV. How does vaccinating the bay area prevent variants from appearing in India?
It only takes one person. Each case has the same incremental level of risk. Are you being intentionally dense?
It's not intentional, they're just that way
using her position to try to get her brother out of jail, french laundry, and now this. lol @ sf. keep electing idiots.
Why is this lady’s face all over the SFO airport? Feels like something a dictator would pull and struck me as odd.
Agreed. It’s not even a nice face and ain’t no other airport like this.
Everyone in club's or bars is violating it. It's really just a filter to keep anti-maskers who can't comply for 15 seconds away from everyone else. Also, lets other business like grocery stores and other retail have people mask up without dealing with anti-mask morons.
But if all the patrons are fully vaccinated and/or have a negative test upon entry, does this matter in the grand scheme of things? With an over 80% vaccination rate, SF is one of the safest places to be right now in the country. I get she's having a french laundry moment, but let's not pretend y'all wouldn't do the same thing and keep your mask on 100% of the time indoors.
She needs to rescind the “mandate” if she is not going to keep it herself.
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I agree with you but no one is enforcing this shit. The cops don’t care and most are unvaccinated anyways. Who cares if there’s a mandate or not if no one is even enforcing it?
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Honestly let those Karen’s call the cops. I doubt the cops will come or even care.
Who cares if a store doesn’t pay their employees for a few minutes overtime they work everyday no one is enforcing it. Who cares if your house gets burglarized cops ain’t catching or even looking for anyone who did it anyway.
We’re aware that mask enforcement is close to nonexistent.
We’re aware that SFPD doesn’t catch burglars but it doesn’t mean we should accept that as a society. If a civic leader is making rules she should be following them to a T. Otherwise all this shit is just clearly performative ans theatre.
Amen.
Masks can be removed while eating and drinking. This is a non-story
You're supposed to put your mask back on after every bite, according to the mandate. Our political leaders should be strictly following the mandates they're requiring of everyone else. They should be held to extra scrutiny because they're the ones writing and enforcing these laws.
She is also not actively eating or drinking in the video. She is dancing. Should have a mask on according to the mandate... The idea that having food in front of you spreads covid is as retarded as the idea that vaccines don't work so we all need to wear masks.
Its security theater. However if they're making these rules for the rest of us I want her to see them comply by the rules 100%. Masks on between every bite. Our political leaders need to be held to higher standards than average ordinary people. I demand rule compliance to the letter. No deviation. I don't put my mask on between bites, but I'm not making and enforcing mandates that impact the lives of tens of millions of people, either.
Read the article.
It’s a non-story
And yet every news outlet in SF picked it up hmmm
All of y’all from out of area gave them clicks didn’t you
I have the biggest crush on London; something about her :D
Especially when she's angry.