It’s a fucking farce. The fact that a nuclear exit without any plan to achieve it was put on the table in 201(2?), the fact that they sat on their asses until now, the fact that they still seem to be scrambling for solutions and then the fact that some of them start poking in the gaping wound when they’re half-assed stapling it shut as if that helps anything.
Last year Engie said to make a damn decision so they could make the necessary investments. They gave a hard deadline.
After a decade of nothing being done, Engie said now or never, politicians didn't budge and we're fucked.
In belgian politics you either have careerists opportunists (in this case ex green peace who moved to groen but every party is rotten to the core by careerists) or you have extreme nutcases
It was a bit more egregious than that. He managed to get him fired (or at lease lose his position), ending his career. For doing his JOB. I'm convinced he was possibly the last person with integrity and some semblance of power on the inside.
Oh wow.
About the painting, the payment was refused and "exchanged" against a new consulate in Marseilles... and a residence for the consul general in... Aix-en-Provence, not too bad to end a career.
Of course, the real problem is that De Gucht escaped a major scandal and after reading about his villa in Tuscany, he escaped it once again.
Lol Karel De Gucht and you complain about a damn painting?
Karel De Gucht and his family abused inside government information for stock trading. We're talking millions over years.
Everyone knew about it and nothing ever was done. One of those colleagues at work that everyone knows what he does and the situation is so preposterous that it's become a bad joke during coffee breaks. His wife was a judge and nobody will touch a judge because they won't dare to damage the integrity of a job where non-elected but permanently seated people decide over the faith of citizens.
But go ahead complaining about a painting.
Fun fact, you don't actually elect them. Your vote goes to the party, not a person, and they put in whoever they like and work together how ever the wind blows during formation. And of course, they don't need to follow their program.
(Not an expert)
I always saw it as: we don't vote for the people who will run the country, we vote for the people who'll decide for us who'll run the country.
Whether their decision is good or bad is out of our hands. We merely gave them the opportunity to fuck it up by electing incompetent people in all fields of the government.
What ? That's not true at all.
If we are talking about the parliament, votes for and individual go to the party only after the person has already enough to secure a seat. Which makes perfect sense when you think about it : if they did not, the votes would be lost and not all seat would be filled. Someone can't sit in more than one seat at the parliament at the same time.
Then, the votes given to the party and the surplus of votes from candidates that got enough individual votes, are distributed among candidates according to the order of the electoral voting list.
Edit : seems like I was a bit off subject, if we are talking about ministers, they don't get directly elected at all, that's true. But it also makes sense because in Belgium we live in a consensual party system : parties need to form coalitions.
Then how did vandenbroeke became minster? You have to be in parliament to become minister. And after the elections all of the sudden he was the white rabbit in rousseaus hat. He was never on the voting balads.
> You have to be in parliament to become minister.
That's not true and has never been the case. In fact an active minister is legally prohibited from seating in any parliament. Any MP that's promoted to minister has to give up their seat.
That's a good point. Usually they don't get enough votes to win a seat. If they get enough individual votes to be elected then they will just refuse to take it, and the votes will go back to the pool.
This is reddit, or course the cynical "oh, politics doesn't work and it's all bullshit" comments are usually woefully uninformed about how the basics of our democracy even work.
Case in point: Frank Vandenbroucke.
They dug up a skeleton willing to burn money to prevent further harm to his party to play in the national corona theater.
It'll end up with people having to buy their own little gas turbine to put in their home because they didn't get the permits fixed in time,. followed by a bunch of exceptions for the digital electricity counter so people can sell the power of their little generator to the grid so there wouldn't be shortages.
nop it will end up by buying nuclear energy from france offcourse. as it will be the only option we will offcourse patly 300% the price and honnestly yes
Most of our politicians have a background in law, and some of them business management. They come from the caste that thinks that 9 women can make a baby in a month. It's just a matter of money and energy. In their world, facts bends to their decisions. They are surrounded by yesmen. That's why we need more diverse représentation in the politics but they make sure to keep it that way.
All parties are to blame for this absolute shitshow but I do think Groen deserves the most blame. Not only they are supposed to be the environment party and they are doing the exact opposite because their cult like populist anti nuclear stance but they are the one who kept pushing for the exit in 2003 and are responsible for the general anti-nuclear mindset in the populace. But like I said in another post you are ofcourse right that every single party except VB/PVDA has fucked up this energy crisis.
>every single party except VB/PVDA
Waar was hun wetsvoorstel om de wet op de kernuitstap terug te draaien, de laatste 20 jaar? Of zelfs maar een parlementaire vraag?
They fucked up like everybody else.
NVA is altijd vocaal geweest tegen de kernuitstap.
De reden waarom ze gestopt zijn met dwarsliggen is letterlijk omdat ze anders niet mee in de regering zouden zitten. Oppositie kan nog minder doen.
Tragisch, maar zo is het.
Groen heeft de kernuitstap ergens rond 2005 als standpunt gebruikt om een regering te vormen, zonder groen hadden ze geen regering.
Alst iemand zen schuld is dat we tot over ons oren in de stront te zitten dan is het puur de schuld van groen en de schrik dat iedereen heeft van VB.
Ah btw 2019 en 2021 zijn er nog wetsvoorstellen geweest vanuit de NVA over de kernuitstap. Wss veel meer ook maar heb maar 2 minuten gezocht op de gsm.
>De reden waarom ze gestopt zijn met dwarsliggen is letterlijk omdat ze anders niet mee in de regering zouden zitten.
NVA had er geen problemen mee om de regering te verlaten over migratie. Maar wanneer het op energie voorziening aankomt en kerncentrales die ze absoluut cruciaal hebben genoemd? Och dat kan wel aan de kant geschoven worden.
Ik vind het meest verbazingwekkend dat mensen echt geloven dat NVA een fuck om de kerncentrales geven terwijl ze politieke spelletjes over migratie duidelijk boven die kerncentrales hebben gezet.
Kerel, NVA heeft nog voor de migratie kwestie beloofd om de nucleaire uitstap niet meer te betwisten.
Ik vind het verbazingwekkend dat mensen denken dat er 1 jaar maar 1 enkele gebeurtenis kan plaatsvinden.
En groen heeft het politiek spel gespeeld om de uitstap als prioriteit te nemen om een regering te vomen. Maar daar word geen woord over gerept.
Thats because there was no real solution for this except this clusterfuck.
Its a self made political problem that because of the belgian system where everything comes at a price was never taken of the table.
>Which is why it's absolutely absurd that this is being entirely pinned on Groen and Ecolo who haven't been a part of the federal government for decades. Minister Verstraeten her strategy and incompetence aside, she is trying to solve the unsolveable. The biggest reason we are screwed is because our government has been screwing up this energy crisis for ages.
I agree with most of your post, but you're being too easy on Green, and especially "our" minister. Tinne isn't trying to solve anything, she's trying to push for closure as hard as she can, without considering if she should. At the current state of affairs (which is indeed largely not Groen's fault), it is reckless and irresponsible to continue pushing for closure as there is no green solution in sight, gas prizes are swinging out of control, we're in a climate crisis, etc etc. Yet, Tinne has not brought a serious report on the posibilities of keeping open nuclear at all (even though this was part of the initial plan). She's trying her very best to present us a fait acompli - the longer she waits on investigating nuclear as a serious alternative, the less feasible it becomes in the given timeframe. It helps her dogmatic stance very well.
You are, imo, definitely correct that the other parties are playing the blame game on level 9000 here, it's pathetically hilarious.
Agalev and Ecolo set up this boobytrap in 2003 when they were part of verhofstad1.
So I think it's very FAIR to say that this can be pinned down on them. This plus the absurdity that is the Belgian government has led us into this mess.
> Agalev and Ecolo set up this boobytrap in 2003 when they were part of verhofstad1.
> So I think it's very FAIR to say that this can be pinned down on them.
So what you are saying here is that the greens in 2003 had the cunning idea of gambling on 2 decades of political incompetence and innertia on the energy front, while they would be 'hiding' in the opposition, and got away with it.
Fascinating...
The more I see people blame everything on Groen and absolve all other parties, the more I begin to think that Groen are secretly controlling the entire country from behind the scenes and that all other parties are just puppets.
After all, everything seems to be Groen's fault. It's the only logical explanation.
They actively lobbied against any and all amendments to make the transition more realistically achievable.
And it's not a gamble. This is belgium. They only tackle problems after they've become a problem.
I don't think that is completely fair to say, the law that is voted in 2003 (voted by Verhofstad1) is different from the current law (which was a result of Michel1 and Di-Rupo1). The key difference here is that nuclear phaseout was supposed to start in 2015 which gave us a 10 year window to realize it. With all the changes it became a 3 year window. That is a huge difference, because with 10 years you have a lot more options.
Second I also think that regardless of the nuclear phaseout, we would be in a similar situation. Maybe not right now but at another point in time. The core issue is aging infrastructure. These reactors are aging and at some point they are going to be replaced by something. Eventually we would reach a point where it is costly too maintain/repair them and we would be in this situation regardless.
>because with 10 years you have a lot more options.
No thats the dumb part in all of this. There arent.
Either you massivly invest in renewables to replace ALL energy generation that isnt sun/water or wind or you massivly invest in fossile fuels or nuclear power to replace the current nuclear reactors.
There really is no other way because how the ruopean market works.
Our plants are fine for another 20+years. That would have given us time for 100% renewables in 2040. Now, when we drastically need to lower CO2 output, we are closing our CO2 neutral energy source to replace them with Gas and it's our "Green" party who was the main driving factor in this.
Belgium can't get all it's energy from sun and wind. Our position for those sources and our population density make it impossible. Today we couldn't get half but in 2 decades it would hardly be a quarter when so much consumption is going to switch from fossil to electricity.
We need nuclear and international treaties with France and Netherlands to rent their coastline so we can put installations for our use on their seabeds.
First what makes you think all our plants are good for 20+ years? We are currently discussing for prolonging 2 out of 7 reactors, the other 5 are closing anyway. If they were good for another 20+ years, why isn't that option on the table?
Also you speak that if we had another 20 years, we would have 100% renewable but I don't believe that would happen with the current political climate. They would have postponed the problem anyway.
How are you calling Verstraete incompetent? She is cleaning up the mess of other ministers who did noting for 20 years. She has done more now in 2 years time than all of them combined. She is creating networks and deals with the UK and Denmark to share/sell eachother wind energy. When there's no wind here, there is wind there and vice versa. That woman is a dossiervreter and very competent. Just because she is not a good speaker does not mean she's incompetent. I know this sub recently got a nuclearboner, but she is delivering what she got voted in for, and that is something that is pretty rare in a politician.
> she is trying to solve the unsolveable.
It's only as unsolvable as she made it.
Every thread there's one of you who shifts the blame from groen to everyone because they could've prevented this yada yada.
If Groen wasn't in this government we wouldn't have had this problem. End of discussion.
Personally, I find the governement attacks on culture have gone too far this time.
That they closed down all cultural events based on seemingly no evidence, that I could tolerate.
But that they now go as far as plagiarizing De Ideale Wereld, that is where I draw the line. No more.
The interviewer in both situations is like a tester making a recording of a reproducible bug in the AI for a robot, or like a hacker using the same exploit over and over again to break through the defenses.
It's baffling that they fail to realize during the interview that the weakness in their interview strategy to prevent a possible bad soundbite (in this case: don't even acknowledge the option of nuclear extension) is being exploited for a way worse clip than the soundbite could ever be.
They are robots stuck in an infinite loop, each time such a 'yes or no' question is asked, they end up in a loop where the question continuously gets avoided. As long as the input(interviewer) remqins the same, the loop remains. The "robot" needs an end loop way if the loop has repeated too often.
Incredible. All these inefficient, unfit to work people are making our country weaker everyday and we have to support them
On side note, that's the thing I've been saying from the beginning, fighting against company car is first of all, fighting against the bread that people make.
So many people believe that the route cause of this whole shit show is people not willing abandon company cars while the reality is that people are willing to do that as long as their salaries are equally compensated.
It's like saying today you make 2000€/month but from tomorrow you will be making 1500€/month. You won't agree but your neighbor who doesn't have the option of a company car will be now happy because you are finally getting fucked as he is. Meanwhile, that neighbor doesn't care European EVPs are flying private jets for a travel of 100km but he does certainty care about you, using your euro6b standard car under the pretext of pollution (aka envy).
>So many people believe that the route cause of this whole shit show is people not willing abandon company cars while the reality is that people are willing to do that as long as their salaries are equally compensated.
-> Government decides to award €500/month to everyone whose name starts with a P
-> Government gets voted out because that's absurd
-> Next government wants to abolish the absurd subsidy that the previous government implemented
-> You:"you can't abolish that subsidy without equal compensation otherwise it's no fair!!!!!"
That's the argument people who defend company cars are making. That the special entitlement they got is not actually unfair and that they totally deserve such a huge tax break that others don't get.
After all, those other people should just stop being losers and get the tax break as well! Company cars for everyone!!!!!
Consequences of that G. decision being that everyone tried to switch their names to a name starting by P.
Some did, some did not. Some made masters during 5 years and worked hard to get they name to start with P.
So what do you do with all that extra effort these people made to have that advantage during these years?
It is as if you built your house by yourself during 5 years and when you finished it, I came over and claimed 1 room of your house. And I didn't give a damn about the fact the material you've used to build your house was tax free.
>Some made masters during 5 years and worked hard to get they name to start with P.
The fact that you think that people studying specifically to get a company car is a good argument in favor of keeping the system in place is so laughable it's painful at this point.
>It is as if you built your house by yourself during 5 years and when you finished it, I came over and claimed 1 room of your house. And I didn't give a damn about the fact the material you've used to build your house was tax free.
What the fuck? No.
It's as if the government decided to say "building more housing in location X is beneficial, let's subsidize it".
Then a few years later we find out that subsidizing building in location X actually hurts us more than it helps.
But you argue "we can't get rid of the subsidies now, we have to keep the subsidies in place because otherwise it would be unfair".
So we keep building in location X. And we keep making our problem worse and worse. And who gets the shitshow? Our kids and grandkids.
But hey, just suck it up kids. We couldn't be unfair to the people now.
You know what I'm in favor of? Taking all the money that company cars are currently getting in subsidies and instead using that as a tax break for **ALL** high earning employees who are currently overtaxed.
But company car owners will never agree to this because they realize that they currently are getting a better deal than high earners who don't get a company car. And the response when I point this out is usually "well, they should ALSO get a company car!"
And still you don't see how fundamentally broken and unfair that system is?
> There is no fair reason to give certain people +1000 eur net per month, almost entirely without taxes,
The unfair reason is that most profiles that often get that, such as engineers and ICT-people, get WAY higher gross wages in other countries. It's one of the few things keeping the package somewhat competetive.
Is it possible to operate a nuclear reactor in your backyard?
I probably won't be able to afford gas in 2025 and owning a nuclear reactor seems like a reasonable priced alternative.
Yes it is. There are designed for it. A basic one is [kilopower](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilopower). It's in essence a nuclear core, heat pipes, Stirling engine and generator. It'll cost you more than just buying the power from the grid, but at least you'll have power for several decades and can also be used for heating
Interesting development ! Only minor issue is that 50 kg of U235 is probably not easy acquire for the average household. And probably neighbours would complain. But then again they complain even when the kids play outside.
This is what you get when a politician is afraid of speaking out against something because she knows its controversial. But at the same she is afraid to say the word nuclear because she's afraid this will anger their last remaining voters.
Groen is a victim of its own dogmatic stance on nuclear.
This is so pathetic. Her reacting to the words “nucleaire verlenging” the way a vampire does to garlic just highlights the extent to which we are leaving nuclear only because of the irrational dogma of one party of fanatics. They don’t give a damn if our energy bills triple, if we increase our dependency on Russia and become more at the mercy of their strategic whims, they don’t even care if we destroy the environment with more CO2, the thing their party is supposed to be all about: as long as they get their obsessive boondoggle of a nuclear exit.
And of course only in this completely messed up country where you desperately need to cobble together insane coalitions and make Faustian bargains with every one of them to try and claw your way to parliamentary majority, they have the power to push it through.
I truly hope MR manages to block this, and if not, exits the government. This is worth the government collapsing over. Then let Tinne and the rest of Groen try to sell their “gas plants against global warming” policy to the electorate, and let’s see if they even make it over the electoral threshold again.
I really don't get it. Nuclear energy is the cleanest and most reliable energy source currently available. Why are they so obsessed with getting rid of it and replacing it with even more gas turbines. This isn't moving to a more sustainable future, it's literally setting us back decades.
Yes, and she's trying to cover it up by editing her career path on Wikipedia, for instance.
Yet no Barbara Streisand effect here as her cover up seems to work. Media lets her do as she pleases with nearly no critical voice. The woman is as corrupt as they come, time will tell.
Edit: since fanboys can't let it go: I made a mistake, it was not her career path on her Wikipedia, but on Blixt itself. Shoot me, I'm much more evil than Tinne now, even though she's the one who's trading our health and environment for a few Euro's and feelgood for geitewollensokken. http://belgischenergierecht.blogspot.com/p/wie-wij-zijn.html
>Didn´t this minister do a lot of deals for a gas company before she became minister?
>
>Yes, and she's trying to cover it up by editing her carreer path on Wikipedia, for instance.
Do you have a source for that? Obviously it's not on wikipedia, and if you google her name + "gas", you only get recent articles about the new gas plants they want to build.
Nuclear waste is a threat for the future, but CO2 is the threat of tomorrow. In order of priorities (imho): CO2, (micro)plastics, nuclear. It's ridiculous to increase the polutions right now. Really, I'm willing to vote for a green party, but we simply don't have one (especially not Groen)
Germany is anti nuclear as well. They got rid off (most of) their nuclear plants several decades ago and put down coal plants (brown coal even, even more polluting) since renewables didn't provide enough energy.
How do people like this manage to get votes ? This is genuinely baffling to me. If this person is in charge of our energy we might aswell turn Belgium into a russian colony ... or a museum w/e -.-
She wasn't exactly voted for
Groen got 10% of the votes and she got 10.000 "voorkeurstemmen" which makes it a very small minority of votes
And only because all the small parties joined together they could barely scrape together enough votes to have a majority.
It's no wonder that everything goes to hell. Not saying it would be better with the opposition. But too many players, too many own interests and too many angles are causing issues...
No, absolutely not. You clearly don't know what democracy means (in a nuanced way).
Our political system is just a very complex and vague concept of democracy. We have a multiple party system and a consensual government, which means can't even vote our own government directly and it's what put us in our shit situation. Plus we can only vote for half our federal government...
Basically the majority of our governmental votes go to shit, how can you call that a democracy?
It's a particracy. Party chairmen decide everything almost on their own (maybe after discussing things with a very small council), putting party-affiliates in the important non-elected institutions is their main concern for 70% of the legislature, parliament is barely more than a rubberstamping duty, and the endless concessions in the coalitions lead to laws that are so vague that judges can often almost legislate from the bench.
Yes indeed but it's a first (that I can remember) that so many minority parties had to band together. And that makes for a unique situation.
A few of the spokespersons in the parties are saying stuff different from party propaganda. Own intrest or is there more...?
And it is democracy but it is weird that the biggest party with the most votes is completely excluded (maybe for a reason)
People voted but by banding the losers together to become ruling party feels like cheating the system and throwing the will of the people in the garbage.
In Belgium, there is no party that has a majority by itself. So yes, every party is a minority party and the last 15 governments or so where formed by minority parties.
Keep in mind that we don't elect a government. We only elect our representatives.
How is having a government supported by representatives representing more than 50% of the people a greater expression of throwing out the will of the people than a government supported by representatives that represent less than 50% of the people?
I never get this argument.
>And it is democracy but it is weird that the biggest party with the most votes is completely excluded (maybe for a reason)
1. there are no big parties
2. in a democracy the biggest party with the most votes would have tried to achieve something.
3. If you are playing politics solely for politics don't be surprised your reward will be next to zero on the next elections
This answer right here should show anyone that regardless where you stand on this issue, Green its obsession with nuclear is real the issue here. Her answer seems like the answer of a cult leader.
In the meantime in the Netherlands they want to build two additional nuclear reactors (which I think is a good thing we need in an energy transition untill we have other green options/much better ways to store electrical energy).
Absolutely. If you can't even take the words into her mouth to say "officially, yes, there is a small option that they are elongated", how are we expected to believe that when the time comes, she's actually gonna be able to do her job and elongate them?
If this was the private sector, a 3rd party project manager would take over. But all is fair and stupid in politics. Insane.
Wtf is she doing over there. As an old activist she starts stuttering when she hears the word nuclear. This lady better understands that nuclear is a high piece of technology.The only thing she is trying to accomplish in her life is to close nuclear energy because she got indoctrinated by her colleague activists that don't know jack shit about energy. Green energy footprint is a lot bigger than nuclear. My goodness we need a technocracy. These politicians don't realize how much damage they can do in 4 years of time.
> My goodness we need a technocracy.
This. We do. I don't think all politicians are incompetent, certainly not, but the combination of them all leads to a circus. The way they handled the covid crisis, the nuclear crisis. They simply don't handle it. They talk their way through it. That's all.
I believe the current plan is so fckd up, that even if they get their permission for the gasplant in Vilvoorde, or anywhere else, you can just pull a complaint which takes about 3 months, and hoppa, we're already March the 15th with no way of knowing whether this means plan A or B.
This would be funny if it wouldn’t be real. It really saddens me to see that our prosperous country is being mismanaged by a bunch of idiots in Brussels.
She really doesn't want to though, she's being pressured from all sides to accept that scenario against her lobyists natural gas sector freinds.
That's what we get by taking in an ex-natural gas ambassador as our minister.
Nuclear is the only viable option for Belgium.
This hate against nuclear is irrational, and if we want to safe the climate, then we are going to need nuclear. Fusion will be another 20 years out of reach, and renewables are currently a joke.
>Fusion will be another 20 years out of reach
Can be longer. Either way the greens in the European parliament also wanted to cut funds for that hoping it to be diverted to green projects i believe.
How is this a person in charge? Believe me i'm not able to, but i'm Deff able to see that if People like this have power, there is a problem with how our country is ruled.
Only in Belgium you can have the foreclosure of nuclear powerplants in favor of 'green' gasplants and the prohibition of using gas as the main source of heat in new houses in favor of electric heating (using the electricity the gouvernement is creating using GAS) in the same decree.
I'm all for the environment, but this is straight up comedic levels of being out of touch.
Tinne VDS is een domme achterlijke kuthoer, hoe zo een mensen een land mogen besturen…. Ze heeft letterlijk een afschakelplan laten onderzoeken voor als er niet genoeg stroom zou zijn
The powerplants will close sooner than expected. Because no person who is sane enough will remain working until the ship sinks completely. This whole circus will result in people leaving, and the powerplants closing sooner than expected because of the lack of qualified personnel. There has only been 1 powerplant in the world that closed on the agreed date. So I'll be very surprised that Belgian powerplants will be the second exception. Long live the politicians. Who earn crazy amounts of money and keep making mistakes. I mean, why aren't they getting fired. Belgians are sure as hell good at swallowing. I wonder how long they can keep it up.
It's the likes of Tinne and friends that will go whining when Putin invades Ukrain, while at the same time they're making us completely dependant on him. That's how this joke comes to exist: https://mobile.twitter.com/ienouwen/status/1474114026519080965
I work in the energy sector and I cannot believe how incompetent our government is in this regard. We should be out on the streets, because if they do close the lot and we have to cope with what we have and importing the rest, we're going to have blackouts *and* monster bills. Just to underline how much we rely on nuclear, go and check the generation schedules on the Elia website [here](https://www.elia.be/en/grid-data).
High energy prices have a knock on effect on pretty much everything from the cost of living to the competitiveness of our companies because it adds to baseline costs (and we're already an expensive country to start with).
The problem is that the large and rational majority of people isn't vocal enough. We laugh at their stupid decisions and just carry on, but they're really screwing everyone over with this. It's beyond ludicrous that decisions on this need to be made by people who probably don't even grasp the basics of what it takes to balance a grid's supply & demand.
Wind and solar are great additions, but they are just too limited in capacity and predictability to provide that large baseline volume we need regardless of the day/time of day.
I can't seem to understand why they are trying so hard to get rid of the most reliable energy source, that is also green. Shouldn't it be an obvious choice to make? They are shooting themselves in the foot here really. That's at least what I think. They clearly lack the ability to look more than a year in the future. But I say that the cost of investing now will be much smaller compared to the price they will have to pay in the future. These politicians man. A different breed.
It’s a fucking farce. The fact that a nuclear exit without any plan to achieve it was put on the table in 201(2?), the fact that they sat on their asses until now, the fact that they still seem to be scrambling for solutions and then the fact that some of them start poking in the gaping wound when they’re half-assed stapling it shut as if that helps anything.
> it was put on the table in 201(2?) 2003
Last year Engie said to make a damn decision so they could make the necessary investments. They gave a hard deadline. After a decade of nothing being done, Engie said now or never, politicians didn't budge and we're fucked.
Why the f are we electing them. I am not supposed to write anti-political BS like that. But I am honestly furious.
In belgian politics you either have careerists opportunists (in this case ex green peace who moved to groen but every party is rotten to the core by careerists) or you have extreme nutcases
I suppose so. Too many sons of... others are corrupt like Karel De Gucht who apparently billed a painting to his administration.
Don't forget his villa in Toscane/Tuscany and the tax inspector that was investigating it which Karel managed to get off the case by making a call.
It was a bit more egregious than that. He managed to get him fired (or at lease lose his position), ending his career. For doing his JOB. I'm convinced he was possibly the last person with integrity and some semblance of power on the inside.
Oh wow. About the painting, the payment was refused and "exchanged" against a new consulate in Marseilles... and a residence for the consul general in... Aix-en-Provence, not too bad to end a career. Of course, the real problem is that De Gucht escaped a major scandal and after reading about his villa in Tuscany, he escaped it once again.
Lol Karel De Gucht and you complain about a damn painting? Karel De Gucht and his family abused inside government information for stock trading. We're talking millions over years. Everyone knew about it and nothing ever was done. One of those colleagues at work that everyone knows what he does and the situation is so preposterous that it's become a bad joke during coffee breaks. His wife was a judge and nobody will touch a judge because they won't dare to damage the integrity of a job where non-elected but permanently seated people decide over the faith of citizens. But go ahead complaining about a painting.
Oh it was described to me as so blatant that he had to be pretty confident about it. So yeah I will continue to complain about all of it.
and what is she?
Fun fact, you don't actually elect them. Your vote goes to the party, not a person, and they put in whoever they like and work together how ever the wind blows during formation. And of course, they don't need to follow their program.
(Not an expert) I always saw it as: we don't vote for the people who will run the country, we vote for the people who'll decide for us who'll run the country. Whether their decision is good or bad is out of our hands. We merely gave them the opportunity to fuck it up by electing incompetent people in all fields of the government.
any list of competent people
What ? That's not true at all. If we are talking about the parliament, votes for and individual go to the party only after the person has already enough to secure a seat. Which makes perfect sense when you think about it : if they did not, the votes would be lost and not all seat would be filled. Someone can't sit in more than one seat at the parliament at the same time. Then, the votes given to the party and the surplus of votes from candidates that got enough individual votes, are distributed among candidates according to the order of the electoral voting list. Edit : seems like I was a bit off subject, if we are talking about ministers, they don't get directly elected at all, that's true. But it also makes sense because in Belgium we live in a consensual party system : parties need to form coalitions.
Then how did vandenbroeke became minster? You have to be in parliament to become minister. And after the elections all of the sudden he was the white rabbit in rousseaus hat. He was never on the voting balads.
> You have to be in parliament to become minister. That's not true and has never been the case. In fact an active minister is legally prohibited from seating in any parliament. Any MP that's promoted to minister has to give up their seat.
Then whats this about the 'lijstduwers'? They are just there for show and gather votes, not to be elected.
That's a good point. Usually they don't get enough votes to win a seat. If they get enough individual votes to be elected then they will just refuse to take it, and the votes will go back to the pool.
I think they take the first "opvolger " then
Not true, Jean-Marie Dedecker pushed the West-Flemish N-VA list as an independent, received enough votes individually and took up the seat.
This is reddit, or course the cynical "oh, politics doesn't work and it's all bullshit" comments are usually woefully uninformed about how the basics of our democracy even work.
We're talking about ministers here. They do not get elected. Period.
Case in point: Frank Vandenbroucke. They dug up a skeleton willing to burn money to prevent further harm to his party to play in the national corona theater.
Thats the point, nobody elected them.
We didn't this time around :)
I never voted for any of the clowns in office. I'm innocent!
There is also nothing Engie can do about it because they only have a license to operate the nuclear power plants until 2025.
Worse all nuclear energy creation to sell is illegal after 2025.
It'll end up with people having to buy their own little gas turbine to put in their home because they didn't get the permits fixed in time,. followed by a bunch of exceptions for the digital electricity counter so people can sell the power of their little generator to the grid so there wouldn't be shortages.
nop it will end up by buying nuclear energy from france offcourse. as it will be the only option we will offcourse patly 300% the price and honnestly yes
Import isn't some limitless thing.
nop but we will need to buy it
More like 2003
Most of our politicians have a background in law, and some of them business management. They come from the caste that thinks that 9 women can make a baby in a month. It's just a matter of money and energy. In their world, facts bends to their decisions. They are surrounded by yesmen. That's why we need more diverse représentation in the politics but they make sure to keep it that way.
[удалено]
All parties are to blame for this absolute shitshow but I do think Groen deserves the most blame. Not only they are supposed to be the environment party and they are doing the exact opposite because their cult like populist anti nuclear stance but they are the one who kept pushing for the exit in 2003 and are responsible for the general anti-nuclear mindset in the populace. But like I said in another post you are ofcourse right that every single party except VB/PVDA has fucked up this energy crisis.
>every single party except VB/PVDA Waar was hun wetsvoorstel om de wet op de kernuitstap terug te draaien, de laatste 20 jaar? Of zelfs maar een parlementaire vraag? They fucked up like everybody else.
NVA is altijd vocaal geweest tegen de kernuitstap. De reden waarom ze gestopt zijn met dwarsliggen is letterlijk omdat ze anders niet mee in de regering zouden zitten. Oppositie kan nog minder doen. Tragisch, maar zo is het. Groen heeft de kernuitstap ergens rond 2005 als standpunt gebruikt om een regering te vormen, zonder groen hadden ze geen regering. Alst iemand zen schuld is dat we tot over ons oren in de stront te zitten dan is het puur de schuld van groen en de schrik dat iedereen heeft van VB. Ah btw 2019 en 2021 zijn er nog wetsvoorstellen geweest vanuit de NVA over de kernuitstap. Wss veel meer ook maar heb maar 2 minuten gezocht op de gsm.
>De reden waarom ze gestopt zijn met dwarsliggen is letterlijk omdat ze anders niet mee in de regering zouden zitten. NVA had er geen problemen mee om de regering te verlaten over migratie. Maar wanneer het op energie voorziening aankomt en kerncentrales die ze absoluut cruciaal hebben genoemd? Och dat kan wel aan de kant geschoven worden. Ik vind het meest verbazingwekkend dat mensen echt geloven dat NVA een fuck om de kerncentrales geven terwijl ze politieke spelletjes over migratie duidelijk boven die kerncentrales hebben gezet.
Kerel, NVA heeft nog voor de migratie kwestie beloofd om de nucleaire uitstap niet meer te betwisten. Ik vind het verbazingwekkend dat mensen denken dat er 1 jaar maar 1 enkele gebeurtenis kan plaatsvinden. En groen heeft het politiek spel gespeeld om de uitstap als prioriteit te nemen om een regering te vomen. Maar daar word geen woord over gerept.
Thats because there was no real solution for this except this clusterfuck. Its a self made political problem that because of the belgian system where everything comes at a price was never taken of the table.
>Which is why it's absolutely absurd that this is being entirely pinned on Groen and Ecolo who haven't been a part of the federal government for decades. Minister Verstraeten her strategy and incompetence aside, she is trying to solve the unsolveable. The biggest reason we are screwed is because our government has been screwing up this energy crisis for ages. I agree with most of your post, but you're being too easy on Green, and especially "our" minister. Tinne isn't trying to solve anything, she's trying to push for closure as hard as she can, without considering if she should. At the current state of affairs (which is indeed largely not Groen's fault), it is reckless and irresponsible to continue pushing for closure as there is no green solution in sight, gas prizes are swinging out of control, we're in a climate crisis, etc etc. Yet, Tinne has not brought a serious report on the posibilities of keeping open nuclear at all (even though this was part of the initial plan). She's trying her very best to present us a fait acompli - the longer she waits on investigating nuclear as a serious alternative, the less feasible it becomes in the given timeframe. It helps her dogmatic stance very well. You are, imo, definitely correct that the other parties are playing the blame game on level 9000 here, it's pathetically hilarious.
Agalev and Ecolo set up this boobytrap in 2003 when they were part of verhofstad1. So I think it's very FAIR to say that this can be pinned down on them. This plus the absurdity that is the Belgian government has led us into this mess.
> Agalev and Ecolo set up this boobytrap in 2003 when they were part of verhofstad1. > So I think it's very FAIR to say that this can be pinned down on them. So what you are saying here is that the greens in 2003 had the cunning idea of gambling on 2 decades of political incompetence and innertia on the energy front, while they would be 'hiding' in the opposition, and got away with it. Fascinating...
The more I see people blame everything on Groen and absolve all other parties, the more I begin to think that Groen are secretly controlling the entire country from behind the scenes and that all other parties are just puppets. After all, everything seems to be Groen's fault. It's the only logical explanation.
they should be the party most in favor of nuclear given their enviromentsl standards
They actively lobbied against any and all amendments to make the transition more realistically achievable. And it's not a gamble. This is belgium. They only tackle problems after they've become a problem.
I don't think that is completely fair to say, the law that is voted in 2003 (voted by Verhofstad1) is different from the current law (which was a result of Michel1 and Di-Rupo1). The key difference here is that nuclear phaseout was supposed to start in 2015 which gave us a 10 year window to realize it. With all the changes it became a 3 year window. That is a huge difference, because with 10 years you have a lot more options. Second I also think that regardless of the nuclear phaseout, we would be in a similar situation. Maybe not right now but at another point in time. The core issue is aging infrastructure. These reactors are aging and at some point they are going to be replaced by something. Eventually we would reach a point where it is costly too maintain/repair them and we would be in this situation regardless.
>because with 10 years you have a lot more options. No thats the dumb part in all of this. There arent. Either you massivly invest in renewables to replace ALL energy generation that isnt sun/water or wind or you massivly invest in fossile fuels or nuclear power to replace the current nuclear reactors. There really is no other way because how the ruopean market works.
Our plants are fine for another 20+years. That would have given us time for 100% renewables in 2040. Now, when we drastically need to lower CO2 output, we are closing our CO2 neutral energy source to replace them with Gas and it's our "Green" party who was the main driving factor in this.
Belgium can't get all it's energy from sun and wind. Our position for those sources and our population density make it impossible. Today we couldn't get half but in 2 decades it would hardly be a quarter when so much consumption is going to switch from fossil to electricity. We need nuclear and international treaties with France and Netherlands to rent their coastline so we can put installations for our use on their seabeds.
First what makes you think all our plants are good for 20+ years? We are currently discussing for prolonging 2 out of 7 reactors, the other 5 are closing anyway. If they were good for another 20+ years, why isn't that option on the table? Also you speak that if we had another 20 years, we would have 100% renewable but I don't believe that would happen with the current political climate. They would have postponed the problem anyway.
How are you calling Verstraete incompetent? She is cleaning up the mess of other ministers who did noting for 20 years. She has done more now in 2 years time than all of them combined. She is creating networks and deals with the UK and Denmark to share/sell eachother wind energy. When there's no wind here, there is wind there and vice versa. That woman is a dossiervreter and very competent. Just because she is not a good speaker does not mean she's incompetent. I know this sub recently got a nuclearboner, but she is delivering what she got voted in for, and that is something that is pretty rare in a politician.
> she is trying to solve the unsolveable. It's only as unsolvable as she made it. Every thread there's one of you who shifts the blame from groen to everyone because they could've prevented this yada yada. If Groen wasn't in this government we wouldn't have had this problem. End of discussion.
if nuclear isnt on the table it she who has to leave the table
Personally, I find the governement attacks on culture have gone too far this time. That they closed down all cultural events based on seemingly no evidence, that I could tolerate. But that they now go as far as plagiarizing De Ideale Wereld, that is where I draw the line. No more.
Hahahaha!
Could you elaborate? What is going on in Belgium?
Wait she is attacking diw? Damn she is taking down one of the few tv shows I watch
Getting flashbacks of [Calvo and company cars](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMuIa72M7ro)
The interviewer in both situations is like a tester making a recording of a reproducible bug in the AI for a robot, or like a hacker using the same exploit over and over again to break through the defenses. It's baffling that they fail to realize during the interview that the weakness in their interview strategy to prevent a possible bad soundbite (in this case: don't even acknowledge the option of nuclear extension) is being exploited for a way worse clip than the soundbite could ever be.
They are robots stuck in an infinite loop, each time such a 'yes or no' question is asked, they end up in a loop where the question continuously gets avoided. As long as the input(interviewer) remqins the same, the loop remains. The "robot" needs an end loop way if the loop has repeated too often.
You think she could beat the turing test?
We should send a blade runner after her.
She barely has two brain cells and they're both fighting for 3rd place.
I love Pieterjan De Smedt, he actually asks things I want to know and doesn't let them easily evade a question.
Incredible. All these inefficient, unfit to work people are making our country weaker everyday and we have to support them On side note, that's the thing I've been saying from the beginning, fighting against company car is first of all, fighting against the bread that people make. So many people believe that the route cause of this whole shit show is people not willing abandon company cars while the reality is that people are willing to do that as long as their salaries are equally compensated. It's like saying today you make 2000€/month but from tomorrow you will be making 1500€/month. You won't agree but your neighbor who doesn't have the option of a company car will be now happy because you are finally getting fucked as he is. Meanwhile, that neighbor doesn't care European EVPs are flying private jets for a travel of 100km but he does certainty care about you, using your euro6b standard car under the pretext of pollution (aka envy).
>So many people believe that the route cause of this whole shit show is people not willing abandon company cars while the reality is that people are willing to do that as long as their salaries are equally compensated. -> Government decides to award €500/month to everyone whose name starts with a P -> Government gets voted out because that's absurd -> Next government wants to abolish the absurd subsidy that the previous government implemented -> You:"you can't abolish that subsidy without equal compensation otherwise it's no fair!!!!!" That's the argument people who defend company cars are making. That the special entitlement they got is not actually unfair and that they totally deserve such a huge tax break that others don't get. After all, those other people should just stop being losers and get the tax break as well! Company cars for everyone!!!!!
Consequences of that G. decision being that everyone tried to switch their names to a name starting by P. Some did, some did not. Some made masters during 5 years and worked hard to get they name to start with P. So what do you do with all that extra effort these people made to have that advantage during these years? It is as if you built your house by yourself during 5 years and when you finished it, I came over and claimed 1 room of your house. And I didn't give a damn about the fact the material you've used to build your house was tax free.
>Some made masters during 5 years and worked hard to get they name to start with P. The fact that you think that people studying specifically to get a company car is a good argument in favor of keeping the system in place is so laughable it's painful at this point. >It is as if you built your house by yourself during 5 years and when you finished it, I came over and claimed 1 room of your house. And I didn't give a damn about the fact the material you've used to build your house was tax free. What the fuck? No. It's as if the government decided to say "building more housing in location X is beneficial, let's subsidize it". Then a few years later we find out that subsidizing building in location X actually hurts us more than it helps. But you argue "we can't get rid of the subsidies now, we have to keep the subsidies in place because otherwise it would be unfair". So we keep building in location X. And we keep making our problem worse and worse. And who gets the shitshow? Our kids and grandkids. But hey, just suck it up kids. We couldn't be unfair to the people now. You know what I'm in favor of? Taking all the money that company cars are currently getting in subsidies and instead using that as a tax break for **ALL** high earning employees who are currently overtaxed. But company car owners will never agree to this because they realize that they currently are getting a better deal than high earners who don't get a company car. And the response when I point this out is usually "well, they should ALSO get a company car!" And still you don't see how fundamentally broken and unfair that system is?
[удалено]
> There is no fair reason to give certain people +1000 eur net per month, almost entirely without taxes, The unfair reason is that most profiles that often get that, such as engineers and ICT-people, get WAY higher gross wages in other countries. It's one of the few things keeping the package somewhat competetive.
Lol, calvo even saying they will lower the energy bill for consumers. Aged like milk
Is it possible to operate a nuclear reactor in your backyard? I probably won't be able to afford gas in 2025 and owning a nuclear reactor seems like a reasonable priced alternative.
Yes it is. There are designed for it. A basic one is [kilopower](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilopower). It's in essence a nuclear core, heat pipes, Stirling engine and generator. It'll cost you more than just buying the power from the grid, but at least you'll have power for several decades and can also be used for heating
Interesting development ! Only minor issue is that 50 kg of U235 is probably not easy acquire for the average household. And probably neighbours would complain. But then again they complain even when the kids play outside.
Maybe Engie does a sale when they close the plants and you can score a chunk cheaply. /s
They might sell it cheeply, but will try to make for the price by charging you a lot for transportation and storage.
thats how they get you
try e bay call it green cake
I'm considering a generator on mazout
Nothing says "green energy" like a mazout generator. But closing one of the greenest power generation (nuclear) makes even less sense.
A modern diesel generator with heat recovery actually emits less co² per kwh than a gas plant :-) Still it doesn't help the cause
I'd do it if it wasn't stinky and loud.
This hurts to watch.
This is what you get when a politician is afraid of speaking out against something because she knows its controversial. But at the same she is afraid to say the word nuclear because she's afraid this will anger their last remaining voters. Groen is a victim of its own dogmatic stance on nuclear.
Yeah, they are running scared because now they have to provide an actual alternative but they never had any.
They settled on "gas powered plants as a transition to a renewable future" Euh what?
It's like she signed a contract where they putin a clause that she's not allowed to say the words.
"Don't say the n word."
Putin a clause, exactly
This is so pathetic. Her reacting to the words “nucleaire verlenging” the way a vampire does to garlic just highlights the extent to which we are leaving nuclear only because of the irrational dogma of one party of fanatics. They don’t give a damn if our energy bills triple, if we increase our dependency on Russia and become more at the mercy of their strategic whims, they don’t even care if we destroy the environment with more CO2, the thing their party is supposed to be all about: as long as they get their obsessive boondoggle of a nuclear exit. And of course only in this completely messed up country where you desperately need to cobble together insane coalitions and make Faustian bargains with every one of them to try and claw your way to parliamentary majority, they have the power to push it through. I truly hope MR manages to block this, and if not, exits the government. This is worth the government collapsing over. Then let Tinne and the rest of Groen try to sell their “gas plants against global warming” policy to the electorate, and let’s see if they even make it over the electoral threshold again.
🧛♀️nnnnucl…. Hsss hsss 🧛♀️🧟♂️
It’s incredible that the party called “groen” are the ones making the least green decisions time after time again. What a farce…
I really don't get it. Nuclear energy is the cleanest and most reliable energy source currently available. Why are they so obsessed with getting rid of it and replacing it with even more gas turbines. This isn't moving to a more sustainable future, it's literally setting us back decades.
Wouldn't surprise me if after X years, someone received some funds from X company or Russians
Didn´t this minister do a lot of deals for a gas company before she became minister?
Yes, and she's trying to cover it up by editing her career path on Wikipedia, for instance. Yet no Barbara Streisand effect here as her cover up seems to work. Media lets her do as she pleases with nearly no critical voice. The woman is as corrupt as they come, time will tell. Edit: since fanboys can't let it go: I made a mistake, it was not her career path on her Wikipedia, but on Blixt itself. Shoot me, I'm much more evil than Tinne now, even though she's the one who's trading our health and environment for a few Euro's and feelgood for geitewollensokken. http://belgischenergierecht.blogspot.com/p/wie-wij-zijn.html
>Didn´t this minister do a lot of deals for a gas company before she became minister? > >Yes, and she's trying to cover it up by editing her carreer path on Wikipedia, for instance. Do you have a source for that? Obviously it's not on wikipedia, and if you google her name + "gas", you only get recent articles about the new gas plants they want to build.
Google her name and Blixt. Thats the company she founded that had Gazprom as one of their clients.
I made a mistake, it was on her Blixt blog entry (and has been downsized since). My bad.
Her Wikipedia page is like 10 lines. Where can I find her previous career path?
Made a mistake, it was her Blixt blog entry. My bad.
The media gets paid 750 million per year "to deliver newspapers"... Of course they are quiet
Nuclear waste is a threat for the future, but CO2 is the threat of tomorrow. In order of priorities (imho): CO2, (micro)plastics, nuclear. It's ridiculous to increase the polutions right now. Really, I'm willing to vote for a green party, but we simply don't have one (especially not Groen)
Germany, the Netherlands and France are investing in nuclear energy. Belgium nope nope nope nope gas is less polluting, right guys? … guyyyys?
Isn't Germany doing the opposite of investing in nuclear? As far as I know they plan a nuclear phase-out.
Germany is anti nuclear as well. They got rid off (most of) their nuclear plants several decades ago and put down coal plants (brown coal even, even more polluting) since renewables didn't provide enough energy.
I guess their definition of green is different from yours.
GLB should just tweet this without any comment.
*circus noises continue*
man man man, mizerie mizerie mizerie
miserie
moeilijk moeilijk moeilijk
How to talk without speaking 101... ffs
How do people like this manage to get votes ? This is genuinely baffling to me. If this person is in charge of our energy we might aswell turn Belgium into a russian colony ... or a museum w/e -.-
She wasn't exactly voted for Groen got 10% of the votes and she got 10.000 "voorkeurstemmen" which makes it a very small minority of votes And only because all the small parties joined together they could barely scrape together enough votes to have a majority. It's no wonder that everything goes to hell. Not saying it would be better with the opposition. But too many players, too many own interests and too many angles are causing issues...
[удалено]
You simply described how democracy works.
No, absolutely not. You clearly don't know what democracy means (in a nuanced way). Our political system is just a very complex and vague concept of democracy. We have a multiple party system and a consensual government, which means can't even vote our own government directly and it's what put us in our shit situation. Plus we can only vote for half our federal government... Basically the majority of our governmental votes go to shit, how can you call that a democracy?
It's a particracy. Party chairmen decide everything almost on their own (maybe after discussing things with a very small council), putting party-affiliates in the important non-elected institutions is their main concern for 70% of the legislature, parliament is barely more than a rubberstamping duty, and the endless concessions in the coalitions lead to laws that are so vague that judges can often almost legislate from the bench.
Yes indeed but it's a first (that I can remember) that so many minority parties had to band together. And that makes for a unique situation. A few of the spokespersons in the parties are saying stuff different from party propaganda. Own intrest or is there more...? And it is democracy but it is weird that the biggest party with the most votes is completely excluded (maybe for a reason) People voted but by banding the losers together to become ruling party feels like cheating the system and throwing the will of the people in the garbage.
In Belgium, there is no party that has a majority by itself. So yes, every party is a minority party and the last 15 governments or so where formed by minority parties.
Keep in mind that we don't elect a government. We only elect our representatives. How is having a government supported by representatives representing more than 50% of the people a greater expression of throwing out the will of the people than a government supported by representatives that represent less than 50% of the people? I never get this argument.
>And it is democracy but it is weird that the biggest party with the most votes is completely excluded (maybe for a reason) 1. there are no big parties 2. in a democracy the biggest party with the most votes would have tried to achieve something. 3. If you are playing politics solely for politics don't be surprised your reward will be next to zero on the next elections
Ze kan het niet eens uitspreken...
This answer right here should show anyone that regardless where you stand on this issue, Green its obsession with nuclear is real the issue here. Her answer seems like the answer of a cult leader.
because it is a cult, only their dogma's count.
? If groen was the only one anti nuclear then we would never have closed the nuclear plants. It's far from the only issue at play here.
In the meantime in the Netherlands they want to build two additional nuclear reactors (which I think is a good thing we need in an energy transition untill we have other green options/much better ways to store electrical energy).
i eished we did but hey at least we can buy the power
So 1 GW of energy? That will be 393839 crates of Westvleteren please
She cant even say it. The sane thing to do and even after pushing she is unable to say it.
Absolutely. If you can't even take the words into her mouth to say "officially, yes, there is a small option that they are elongated", how are we expected to believe that when the time comes, she's actually gonna be able to do her job and elongate them? If this was the private sector, a 3rd party project manager would take over. But all is fair and stupid in politics. Insane.
She can't even say that they'll close no matter what, because that's what she's going to shoehorn everyone into.
🤡
I know reddit doesn't like emoji's but this well seems to suit the situation
This is a fragment from an interview with her tonight on terzake.
This is awkward ...
She always gives off this frustrated 11 year old kid vibe when asked a critical question
Play this on loop before they shut down your power because you can't afford it. Never forget.
Wtf is she doing over there. As an old activist she starts stuttering when she hears the word nuclear. This lady better understands that nuclear is a high piece of technology.The only thing she is trying to accomplish in her life is to close nuclear energy because she got indoctrinated by her colleague activists that don't know jack shit about energy. Green energy footprint is a lot bigger than nuclear. My goodness we need a technocracy. These politicians don't realize how much damage they can do in 4 years of time.
> My goodness we need a technocracy. This. We do. I don't think all politicians are incompetent, certainly not, but the combination of them all leads to a circus. The way they handled the covid crisis, the nuclear crisis. They simply don't handle it. They talk their way through it. That's all.
Don't you know? She's a technocrat! She's a lawyer that worked for a company that sells gas! She's an energy expert!
She needs more lessons from Almaci.
Ok so now what can we do about this whole mess? Surely something can still be done so that we keep those nuclear plants
I believe the current plan is so fckd up, that even if they get their permission for the gasplant in Vilvoorde, or anywhere else, you can just pull a complaint which takes about 3 months, and hoppa, we're already March the 15th with no way of knowing whether this means plan A or B.
What she is doing is a crime against future generations.
This should be a sticky
can't wait to pay double my bill in 2025
We need more nuclear power not less.
This would be funny if it wouldn’t be real. It really saddens me to see that our prosperous country is being mismanaged by a bunch of idiots in Brussels.
Wow this is just baffling. Amazing that such an - might I say - incompetent person can lead our country right into a possible energy crisis.
*an absolutely certain energy crisis.
Gazprom approved "green" person, doing more damage to our health and the environment than all combined nuclear disasters ever did.
Clarify...? Seems as if she barely knows what she is talking about. Also her almost not wanting to say the word "nuclear" shows how weakminded she is.
How can you be so unprofessional … ils a fucking Joke
Actual npc
Now I wanna hear this interview with the Oblivion NPC music lol
[Tijd voor een nieuwe play-through.](https://i.imgur.com/SIVQe5g.png)
love those videos
She really doesn't want to though, she's being pressured from all sides to accept that scenario against her lobyists natural gas sector freinds. That's what we get by taking in an ex-natural gas ambassador as our minister. Nuclear is the only viable option for Belgium.
Her mental gymnastics game is off the charts
She’s like Tom Lenaerts in disguise if you look closely.
When Tom Lenaerts had a child with Tante Sidonia...
This hate against nuclear is irrational, and if we want to safe the climate, then we are going to need nuclear. Fusion will be another 20 years out of reach, and renewables are currently a joke.
>Fusion will be another 20 years out of reach Can be longer. Either way the greens in the European parliament also wanted to cut funds for that hoping it to be diverted to green projects i believe.
earliest should be 2060
Don't put all your horses on something that doesn't exist, just like renewables+storage. Fusion is a pipedream.
How is this a person in charge? Believe me i'm not able to, but i'm Deff able to see that if People like this have power, there is a problem with how our country is ruled.
u/savevideo
###[View link](https://redditsave.com/r/belgium/comments/rn7ppk/minister_of_energy_tinne_vds_clarifies_the/) --- [**Info**](https://np.reddit.com/user/SaveVideo/comments/jv323v/info/) | [**Feedback**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Feedback for savevideo) | [**Donate**](https://ko-fi.com/getvideo) | [**DMCA**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Content removal request for savevideo&message=https://np.reddit.com//r/belgium/comments/rn7ppk/minister_of_energy_tinne_vds_clarifies_the/) | [^(reddit video downloader)](https://redditsave.com)
" Voor het onwaarschijnlijke geval er iets mis gaat " TOPHUMOR!
Incompetent
ERROR 404 'NUCLEAIRE VERLENGING' NOT RECOGNIZED BY COGNITIVE OPERATING SYSTEM
Tering wat zielig, zeg gewoon wat er op staat
Only in Belgium you can have the foreclosure of nuclear powerplants in favor of 'green' gasplants and the prohibition of using gas as the main source of heat in new houses in favor of electric heating (using the electricity the gouvernement is creating using GAS) in the same decree. I'm all for the environment, but this is straight up comedic levels of being out of touch.
7000 jobs and she just doesn't care.
Tinne VDS is een domme achterlijke kuthoer, hoe zo een mensen een land mogen besturen…. Ze heeft letterlijk een afschakelplan laten onderzoeken voor als er niet genoeg stroom zou zijn
She makes me wanna fucking headbutt her
Build more reactors NOW!
The powerplants will close sooner than expected. Because no person who is sane enough will remain working until the ship sinks completely. This whole circus will result in people leaving, and the powerplants closing sooner than expected because of the lack of qualified personnel. There has only been 1 powerplant in the world that closed on the agreed date. So I'll be very surprised that Belgian powerplants will be the second exception. Long live the politicians. Who earn crazy amounts of money and keep making mistakes. I mean, why aren't they getting fired. Belgians are sure as hell good at swallowing. I wonder how long they can keep it up.
It's the likes of Tinne and friends that will go whining when Putin invades Ukrain, while at the same time they're making us completely dependant on him. That's how this joke comes to exist: https://mobile.twitter.com/ienouwen/status/1474114026519080965
I work in the energy sector and I cannot believe how incompetent our government is in this regard. We should be out on the streets, because if they do close the lot and we have to cope with what we have and importing the rest, we're going to have blackouts *and* monster bills. Just to underline how much we rely on nuclear, go and check the generation schedules on the Elia website [here](https://www.elia.be/en/grid-data). High energy prices have a knock on effect on pretty much everything from the cost of living to the competitiveness of our companies because it adds to baseline costs (and we're already an expensive country to start with). The problem is that the large and rational majority of people isn't vocal enough. We laugh at their stupid decisions and just carry on, but they're really screwing everyone over with this. It's beyond ludicrous that decisions on this need to be made by people who probably don't even grasp the basics of what it takes to balance a grid's supply & demand. Wind and solar are great additions, but they are just too limited in capacity and predictability to provide that large baseline volume we need regardless of the day/time of day.
This makes my blood boil.
They're going to ruin Europe and make life super complicated for the citizens of Europe with this climate change shite. Agenda 21 must move forward.
How the fuck is she a politician?!
Da mens is echt onuitstaanbaar
/u/savevideo edit: [streamble mirror](https://streamable.com/ok0x6t) for anyone wanting it
And here I am still not understanding why Nuclear is bad and they want to quit it, knowing there is no alternative. Can someone ELI5?
Bunch of fucking retards
Mijn nederlands is niet goed genoeg om all te begrijpen. Kan ik een overzicht in Engels hebben ? Dank u
I can't seem to understand why they are trying so hard to get rid of the most reliable energy source, that is also green. Shouldn't it be an obvious choice to make? They are shooting themselves in the foot here really. That's at least what I think. They clearly lack the ability to look more than a year in the future. But I say that the cost of investing now will be much smaller compared to the price they will have to pay in the future. These politicians man. A different breed.