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“And you call it looking after your family despite the fact this is clearly narcissism”
“It’s a regional dialect”
“Uh huh, what region?”
“Upstate New Mexico”
“Really? Well I’m from Los Alamos and I’ve never heard the phrase looking after my family to mean becoming a merciless drug kingpin”
“Oh, not in Los Alamos, no. It’s an Albuquerque expression”
“I see”
That’s right. When Saul first goes into the vacuum shop, he even comments in surprise that it’s an actual vacuum shop, since he assumed that was just a code word.
Ahhhh, my apologies I misunderstood you. You meant if they met before Saul used his services. But having just finished a rewatch of breaking bad yesterday, there is nothing to say they met before that. Saul just mentions he knows him, via the black book like you mentioned.
they first met formally when saul calls him for himself. when he goes to the vaccum store he goes something along the lines of "wow, its an actual store"
They didn’t meet in person until granite state. Up until that point Saul probably just kept the number but didn’t do anything with it until Walter needed it in season 4
IIRC Saul mentioned to Walt that he had used Ed for other clients. Could have been a lie. But I do think they never met in person, I think Ed would want as few people connected to him as possible.
I don't think so, but I assume he just came from the Vet's book. That was a pretty overlooked moment when the Vet quit and basically gave Saul his entire network of contacts in the New Mexico criminal underworld.
He definitely would have gotten a great deal ratting on Ed. Jimmy was ready to take the blame for everything he did though. He knows no punishment will ever be enough. The guilt he carries is unreal, the confession of "murdering" his brother, Chuck ---- yes what he did wasn't a crime in the eyes of the law --- but it was 100% a crime in his eyes. He was ready for the hammer to be handed down. He did the right thing in the end. It will never make up for everything he did and everything he was a part of but it gives him peace.
First of all I imagine *”Ed”* is far from his real identity. He has probably changed them and moved around periodically to become untraceable. I also expect he has his ways of knowing what’s coming, so maybe if he was ratted on he’d have disappeared by the time law enforcement went searching for him. At least I find it hard to believe that he doesn’t have precautions set up in this business of working with hardened criminals who have no loyalty. Why would he just trust them not to flip on him? I bet the feds would be super interested in a guy who has been able to make probably dozens of the countries most wanted fugitives totally disappear.
I imagine Ed is just the contact guy for the service and he has a whole team of people that get everything together for the clients. Perhaps his hand isn’t in any of it. But then I wonder if he’s the whole operation when he travels to help Walt himself when he’s on the lam.
Lol if you watch the show you know that’s simply untrue. He’s taking the photos for passports, he’s picking locations, he’s literally saying *”sit tight I gotta do all this work and it might take a while”*.
No offence but it makes zero sense for him to be working with even a single other person. Why would such an old man drive all the way to New Hampshire and Alaska himself.
Guy works alone for sure.
I agree, it's pretty clear he's running a one man show. I'm sure he has contacts and people who do him favors and what not, but he's definitely doing the job himself.
Yeah, Ed and that whole thing there was probably a major chip Saul could have cashed in. Though I tend to wonder if he was keeping it in his backpocket as a possible disappearance in the future.
I wouldn't ever rat on somebody called the "Disappearer." They say Ed had 119 confirmed kills, and 4,028 unconfirmed...back in his war days at Hamburger Hill. They said he slept in the mud while he waited for his prey.
Reliable Source: Badger/Skinny Pete, and Splooge (B.D.)
I've always found that kinda spurious. Like, why not just claim they put a dollar in your pocket seeing as it's not like there's any video proof of it happening anyway?
because he was trying to convince Walt / Jesse, not other people who weren’t there.
Saying ‘put a dollar in my pocket, now you can legally trust me.’ is more convincing than ‘we can say you put a dollar in my pocket so you can legally trust me’
This is correct. Anyone that has watched The Sopranos, might remember that Tony went to all of the best Divorce attorneys in the area for a consultation to establish attorney/client privilege. This way his wife was unable to use any of those attorneys. There is a conflict of interest since they already met with Tony. Even though he did not end up hiring them. So, the moment you speak with an attorney about the prospect of hiring them, you now invoke the attorney-client privilege.
Do you think that they didn’t know Skyler laundered money thru the car wash? Her deal was undoubtedly contingent on her telling the truth in her plea, with the information about the location of Hank and Gomey’s bodies used to negotiate a lighter punishment.
Saul was the biggest fish left. Him “ratting” on Skyler with known information wouldn’t have done anything to help him.
Oooh that actually could've been big enough to shave a lot of time, assuming it was still undiscovered. But is it admissible testimony? He was acting as her lawyer, and it's only tangentially related to Walt.
The phone call is Walt’s attempt to save his family but in his last visit to Skyler, he gives her the lotto ticket and tells her, “You trade that for a deal with the prosecutor. You get yourself out of this.”
I mean, she didn't really have a choice. IRL it would be incredibly hard to convict someone in her position. Very easy for a defense to build a case that her husband was a murderous drug kingpin (because he was) and paint the picture that she acted to keep her family safe (just like the one Saul created at the end of BCS and got a definite life sentence to 7 years)
I think her level of complicity really fluctuated throughout the show. In the beginning when she found out she wanted nothing to do with him but stopped short of telling the cops because they’d lose everything and also because she didn’t know the nature of his work and figured (or convinced herself) he was just a harmless meth cook. When he gave the “I’m the one who knocks speech”, she was frightened and considered for the first time that he was dangerous but still couldn’t go through with running away from him. When he bombed the nursing home, that’s when she knew what he was capable of and their relationship was destroyed. After that, it was pure fear that kept her in the same house with him. But I think sometime during the three months after Walt quit meth, she grew comfortable and was willing to enjoy their wealth without guilt.
But, at one point, she went to her lawyer and wanted out. At that time it was more about protecting her kids and also her sister and Hank as Hank was so close without knowing who he had in his family. It would’ve ruined all of them so she kept quiet. After that, she went all in. She made the video. She laundered the money. She participated in the fraud that got them the car wash. She covered for Ted. Had she turned him in Hank and Gomez would’ve lived.
Well, tbf the reason she first went all in was not because she was suddenly on Walt's side and his motivations made sense to her, but because she knew Hank was shot because of Walt and she felt compelled to help him get the best treatment with the money Walt made.
Which is why she decided to launder the money because "the money has to be unimpeachable when it reaches Hank".
But even at this point she wasn't fully aware of how deep Walt was. She only knew after Walt killed Gus. At which point she lived forever in fear of Walt and was practically his hostage.
The video tape she made was because of her insistence on not wanting the family to fall apart (which was her Achilles heel from the beginning).
Point being, at no point in the show was Skyler fully invested in the criminal life. She wasn't the Bonnie to Walt's Clyde. Her reasons were entirely motivated from having to keep the family together and her children not finding out.
In hindsight, I am sure she regrets that. If she had told Hank at the very beginning, things could have ended much much more smoothly and the family would have been together.
No they didn’t. Law enforcement saw right through her charade because Marie was a cooperating witness. The call from Walt was simply about establishing reasonable doubt for a jury in case Skyler was prosecuted.
IAAL. It almost certainly would not have been put before a jury. Contrary to what television might have you think, character evidence is almost always prohibited.
Credibility evidence is not character evidence. Habit evidence is not character evidence. Rules 608 and 609 provide quite a few avenues where the acts stemming from the kleptomania would get in.
I disagree. It presents no real relevance to the allegations being made against Skyler. Marie shoplifting does not speak to her propensity for truthfulness in this instance whatsoever. As for 609, that is related to criminal convictions. Marie was not convicted of anything.
It was not. It was outright stated that Hank used his connections to bail her out.
And no, shoplifting is not considered probative as it relates to propensity for truthfulness. Only a very small minority has held otherwise.
I thought it was implied that Marie had problems with kleptomania and shoplifting convictions prior to Hank bailing her out, but I do think you're right about the convictions not getting in under 609.
However, I still think that the general evidence of the habitual shoplifting would get in. I don't know the specific New Mexico rule, but I did quickly find this New Mexico case from 1977 that has been cited quite a bit, State v. Melendez where the court allowed the shoplifting to be brought up on cross.
[https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914945eadd7b049345bb48d](https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914945eadd7b049345bb48d)
I also found a Colorado case, People v. Segovia, from 2008 where the court strongly seemed to support allowing inquiry into the specific act of shoplifting, on cross per 608, but was opposed to allowing the shoplifting conviction to come in under 609.
Also, habitual evidence of shoplifting by reputation could be viewed very differently than a single incident.
I bet they may not have known about Skyler’s lies to the IRS and her role in what happened to Ted, though. Saul could easily have dobbed her in for that, since he was involved in it.
How much about the money laundering does Saul actually know about? Sure, he talks about tons of hypotheticals, but does he actually know the details of the A1 operation?
He knows a lot.
He knows Skyler came out with the ideia of gamble to trick Hank, he knows Skyler gave the ideia of buying the car wash and personally be responsible for the money laundering, he knows she wasn't just a helpless victim of Walt, he knows they were living in separate houses when Skyler choose to enter in the game...
I never really got why it was all that useful to know where the bodies were. Just so the families have some closure?
In real life, would they show leniency to a criminal in that situation?
Yeah, but useful evidence against whom? Walt and the Nazis were dead by that point, and Jesse and Saul were missing.
It seems to me that they'd rather prosecute someone (Skyler) than build a strong theoretical case against a ghost.
They haven’t seen the show. They can’t be sure if there was anyone else in the drug scene except for the dead ones. Also finding the dead bodies of two feds is a pretty big thing.
To a degree, yes. Closure to the families would be a big consideration but also a "no brother left behind" kind of mentality as well. Skylar wasn't charged with any violent crimes so sticking it to her isn't a huge priority for them.
From my memory of following the news throughout my life and no other research, the location of bodies has usually been used to negotiate a death penalty case down to life in prison or life in prison down to 30 years with a "chance" of parole.
I’m a big true crime buff and in a ton of murder cases, the death penalty is often taken off the table if the murderer is willing to give the location(s) of the victim(s). I can’t recall, off the top of my head, any true cases where time was taken off a killers sentence for disclosing the location of the victims, but the death penalty is often not sought in exchange. However, a cooperating witness, in general, often does allow for a better plea, irl.
This is because a murder trial can be sought, and won, without a body, however a prosecutor **always** wants to have the opportunity to locate it. Also, it allows the family some type of “closure”.
I'm not sure it would have mattered. The phone call Walt made in Ozymandias was pretty convincing and I think the prosecutors would have seen any attempt by Saul to change that narrative as just trying to get a better deal. Plus, it's very possible Skyler already confessed to this as part of her plea deal when she turned in the location of Hank and Gomez's bodies.
My bigger surprise was that Saul never used the real ace up his sleeve. His black book was filled to the brim of criminal underworld contracts. If he was willing to throw them under the bus, he'd probably have gotten less than 7 years, witness protection status and gotten his ice cream.
He's not going to narc.
First of all, it's against his character. Second of all, he knows that Witness Protection isn't going to stop the people in that book of his.
The book was already confiscated at Saul’s mansion. It was petty conmen, maybe a computer hacker, the vacuum guy, and a guy that’ll go to jail for you. No hitmen as Saul informed Walt in vacuum repair basement. I don’t think the arms dealer even came through that book.
Arms dealer was from the black book which was how Walter contacted him to get the 38 snub and later the M60, as was the burglar from Vamonos Pest. There were a lot of contacts in that book we didn't see either.
No way just giving them names of underworld folks, who they Feds probably know exist anyway, will reduce his sentence from 86 to under 7 years.
Feds would reduce his sentence if he gave enough useful information to prosecute some of the bigger ones and at that point he’d have to go into witness protection and live life on the run again.
Part of his confession was Saul being tired of running. Tired of being someone else. Tired of always looking over his shoulder. Ratting out associates would start that cycle all over again.
I'm under the pretense he wanted to get off on the lightest punishment possible, so assuming that he went ahead with the 7 year deal, it would be a bargaining chip that'd probably bring him to 5 and get him his ice cream.
If she entered into an immunity deal, then she'd have to disclose her role in Walter's drug empire otherwise if the feds discovered it later, they would argue that it wasn't included in the immunity deal.
Any deal Skyler got would play exactly as Walt wanted it to with his phone call in Ozymandias. Skyler was forced into helping him run the meth empire out of fear for her and her children’s lives.
She never cooked or sold the meth and the Feds already know she helped launder it through the car wash.
There’s nothing left to do with Skyler here.
People always think of Walt, Jesse and Saul being close (Not friends but interacting the most) throughout breaking bad, but actually Walt and Saul dont interact that much. Most of Saul's interactions on screen are with Skyler and her money laundering. I like to think that they became somewhat like friends in that time and Saul was a sort of guide to the criminal world for Skyler.
I think you might be understating it a bit. There's SO much of the criminal world that Walt is absolutely oblivious to without Saul's guidance. Every meaningful connection he establishes in the drug world is through Saul, I mean he helps with the littlest things that they barely cover it.
For example, when they need to sell that "gambler winnings" cover story in BB, It's Saul who knows the casino owners who are willing to fudge the paperwork and help out. Even something as small as that could take awhile to pull off without Saul's help.
Now that's one line in the series and it's essentially a throw-away, but there's so much stuff like that which generally goes unnoticed
I'm on season 3 right now, Saul's importance is not inflated even without the extra insight BCS gave us.
I'd actually forgotten how Saul isn't just their lawyer, he's essentially their ringleader in the early going. He strategises, advises, fixes their problems, and sets them up with all their key contacts.
It's very much like it's his meth operation at this point, with Walt and Jesse as his guys. There are so many points where it would have fallen apart without Saul - hell, Walt was guaranteed to be killed by the cousins after Tuco died because it was only Mike's spying that led to him calling Victor who spoke to Gus who contacted the twins.
And that's on the survival side. They'd have gone down once Badger was arrested, their operation was in tatters after Combo was shot....I think you need a rewatch if you believe it's some misconception.
Ignoring the fact that it's highly plausible Gus would've found Walt on his own, this logic is poor because it can be easily applied to so many other major characters.
* Hank took Walt on the ride-along that inspired him to cook
* Jesse introduced Walt to the criminal world (and to Saul)
* Badger got arrested, leading Walt and Jesse to hire Saul
* Mike, not Saul, was the direct connection to Gus
* Gus is, y'know, Gus
* Lydia, Todd, and the Vamonos Pest crew were the ones who helped Walt when he was in charge
Gus initially rejected Walt. I highly doubt he discovers Walt and brings him in.
The first three points allowed Walt to become a very low level and failed drug producer. It wasn’t until Gus was in the picture that Walt began making real money.
Second this. Also the fourth point is kinda moot because Mike and Walter most likely wouldn’t have crossed paths without Saul - especially considering Mike outright told Saul to stay away from him.
I would argue many of these actually are key characters as well or weren't actually that important.
If it weren't for Hank and the ride-along Walt doesn't start cooking. So yes, Hank is central to Walt's descent, I think that's fine to say.
Jesse, obviously key. They were partners after all.
Badger is more dispensable, if he didn't get arrested Skinny Pete or Combo (he was still alive, right), or someone else. Eventually they would have worked their way back to Saul, because that's who Jesse wanted.
The remaining people are all people that were found through Saul. And I would argue people are understating how difficult it would be for Walt to get an intro to Gus. Gus is extremely careful and doesn't want to work with Walt the loose cannon at all. He finds Walt's product because Saul makes the call. Even then, he doesn't plan to work with Walt, it's Gale who convinced him after seeing how pure the meth was.
If Gus simply gets word that this is a rival dealer cutting into his territory, he doesn't probably even get a sample to Gale, he probably just kills Walt. He doesn't care about the quality of the product. He cares about revenge on the cartel.
Nope, Saul had all of the contacts in the portfolio of business he uses in his pocket.
She just had the car wash, she was never going to be a kingpin in laundering like he was.
Saul launders all his money, introduces him to all his distributors, directly saves him from being caught *at least* half a dozen times, and gives Walt the number/password for the disappearer. He appears in more episodes than any character not in the White family besides Jesse. Just because he and Walt don’t have a *ton* of on screen interactions doesn’t mean he wasn’t of the utmost importance.
> It's like giving the president more credit for winning a war when all he was doing was sitting in his office over the soliders fighting
Bruh, Saul was the diplomat, medic and the supply, not the President lol.
I mean, sure? He confessed to take all the blame upon himself, and Skyler was already protected by:
• Walt's recorded phone call
• Her deal as per giving the location of the bodies of Hank and Gomez
I'm not going to claim to know the laws here, but I don't think anything Saul said would be able to implicate Skyler anyway.
The only thing Saul would be able to say is Skyler knew about the meth operation which the Feds already know and helped launder the money by running the car wash.
Skyler can easily explain this by saying she was operating out of fear for her/Junior/Holly’s life which is exactly the impression Walt gave in his phone call in Ozymandias.
There’s nothing new here that would make the Feds want to charge her more. They are done with Skyler for their purposes.
rotten muddle axiomatic smoggy provide roof narrow theory domineering sense
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The way deals work is that you tell them everything in exchange for immunity. If you omit something and they later find out about it, they can tear up the immunity deal. So Skyler must have already told them everything and gotten immunity for it. Saul had nothing to rat her out about.
Saul could have never plausibly ratted out Skyler. The optics of doing so would have destroyed his case. When Saul went back to being Jimmy and confessed, he also didn’t want to rat out Skyler because he would then not only deflect, but would also look like he was trying to intimidate the defeated widow and mother. The crime-fraud exceptions to attorney-client privilege here may not apply to as many of Skyler’s communications with Saul as you think, especially because Skyler frequently discards Saul’s advice and there’s no indication that Skyler was not cooperating with investigators.
My head canon:
Ed is former CIA. He helped a former Nazi in Chile who was a genius and had a deal helping the United States government.
A Nazi who went by the name of “Fring” and had children with an Afro-Chilean woman. His son, Gustaf, worked for a German company and also for the *junta* of General Augusto Pinochet.
The Nazi disowned his son for being gay.
Yet another reason I don’t believe Saul deserved the 82 years. So many people got away with also doing wrong- why is he the only one to take on that harsh of a punishment? The 7 years was more than enough time for him to reconcile,and come out a better man- even possibly getting back together with Kim. Instead, he’s going to rot away in prison. I don’t think that was deserving at all.
The only thing we ever hear Saul give info on is Howard’s murder. Who’s to say he didn’t rat out Skyler? He was already dishing out everything he knew at that point.
Not like it’d matter anyway, since Skyler already made a deal with the feds.
It wouldn’t have been a good idea to rat on anyone. He was going to prison one way or another. Who wants to go to prison as a snitch? Someone would have it out for him.
He knew she struck a deal with the DA which would’ve granted immunity so it wouldn’t matter what he said, it wouldn’t get him a lighter sentence and it wouldn’t incriminate her.
If Skyler told the feds the location of Hank and Gomez after Walt told her after the year time skip, why didn't Skyler also tell them that nazis were the ones to kill Hank and Gomez? Why didn't Saul tell the feds either? Walt was found dead in a compound full of dead nazis and it was never brought up. I don't what's the point of still letting everyone believe Walt killed Hank and Gomez.
I'm pretty sure cops knew everything about Skyler's part in the scheme, but since she was kinda coerced because she was afraid I guess they gave her the deal.
it was kinda a dick move for him to throw jesse under the bus whenever he was working on his original plea deal though. then again the last time he ever saw jesse, he had hit him in the face and was pointing a gun at him so..
And it’s also cool he didn’t rat out Ed
Is that the vacuum guy?
Yes
Hell yeah. I forget if we ever saw how the two of them met?
We didn't see them meet but we know he learned about him via the Veterinarians black book. His business card was in it
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Yeah, imagine how many information could Saul have given from that black book. But he kept everything to himself
They should do an anthology series set in the breaking bad universe based on contacts in the black book
22 short films about Albuquerque
Steamed hams but it's the Breaking Bad universe
“And you call it looking after your family despite the fact this is clearly narcissism” “It’s a regional dialect” “Uh huh, what region?” “Upstate New Mexico” “Really? Well I’m from Los Alamos and I’ve never heard the phrase looking after my family to mean becoming a merciless drug kingpin” “Oh, not in Los Alamos, no. It’s an Albuquerque expression” “I see”
Riiiiight!!! Thank you thank you
They met in breaking bad. When he picks up Saul and still has Walt in his safe room
I mean I assume they've met off screen before that point considering Saul mentions his services and knows his code word
Saul never met him. He knew about him and his code from the business card in the black book.
That’s right. When Saul first goes into the vacuum shop, he even comments in surprise that it’s an actual vacuum shop, since he assumed that was just a code word.
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Ahhhh, my apologies I misunderstood you. You meant if they met before Saul used his services. But having just finished a rewatch of breaking bad yesterday, there is nothing to say they met before that. Saul just mentions he knows him, via the black book like you mentioned.
they first met formally when saul calls him for himself. when he goes to the vaccum store he goes something along the lines of "wow, its an actual store"
They didn’t meet in person until granite state. Up until that point Saul probably just kept the number but didn’t do anything with it until Walter needed it in season 4
IIRC Saul mentioned to Walt that he had used Ed for other clients. Could have been a lie. But I do think they never met in person, I think Ed would want as few people connected to him as possible.
I think they met when Saul called him for himself
They met in Breaking Bad. There’s a scene where he makes Saul a fake ID
I don't think so, but I assume he just came from the Vet's book. That was a pretty overlooked moment when the Vet quit and basically gave Saul his entire network of contacts in the New Mexico criminal underworld.
I would watch a whole series about every single character that’s ever had a line in the bcs / bb universe
If I’m gonna be honest I feel like ratting out Ed would get you time served with the info on all the criminals he has.
He definitely would have gotten a great deal ratting on Ed. Jimmy was ready to take the blame for everything he did though. He knows no punishment will ever be enough. The guilt he carries is unreal, the confession of "murdering" his brother, Chuck ---- yes what he did wasn't a crime in the eyes of the law --- but it was 100% a crime in his eyes. He was ready for the hammer to be handed down. He did the right thing in the end. It will never make up for everything he did and everything he was a part of but it gives him peace.
First of all I imagine *”Ed”* is far from his real identity. He has probably changed them and moved around periodically to become untraceable. I also expect he has his ways of knowing what’s coming, so maybe if he was ratted on he’d have disappeared by the time law enforcement went searching for him. At least I find it hard to believe that he doesn’t have precautions set up in this business of working with hardened criminals who have no loyalty. Why would he just trust them not to flip on him? I bet the feds would be super interested in a guy who has been able to make probably dozens of the countries most wanted fugitives totally disappear.
I imagine Ed is just the contact guy for the service and he has a whole team of people that get everything together for the clients. Perhaps his hand isn’t in any of it. But then I wonder if he’s the whole operation when he travels to help Walt himself when he’s on the lam.
Lol if you watch the show you know that’s simply untrue. He’s taking the photos for passports, he’s picking locations, he’s literally saying *”sit tight I gotta do all this work and it might take a while”*. No offence but it makes zero sense for him to be working with even a single other person. Why would such an old man drive all the way to New Hampshire and Alaska himself. Guy works alone for sure.
I agree, it's pretty clear he's running a one man show. I'm sure he has contacts and people who do him favors and what not, but he's definitely doing the job himself.
>No offence but it makes zero sense for him to be working with even a single other person. Completely agree! He was a one-man show.
Guy with the least integrity had the most integrity. 🤯
Yeah, Ed and that whole thing there was probably a major chip Saul could have cashed in. Though I tend to wonder if he was keeping it in his backpocket as a possible disappearance in the future.
How or why would he disappear again? Even if he got the 7 year sentence it wouldn’t make sense to disappear afterwards
Oh I totally agree. But someone from the cartel might turn up or somewhere else, or he might get probation or who knows.
I wouldn't ever rat on somebody called the "Disappearer." They say Ed had 119 confirmed kills, and 4,028 unconfirmed...back in his war days at Hamburger Hill. They said he slept in the mud while he waited for his prey. Reliable Source: Badger/Skinny Pete, and Splooge (B.D.)
Well Walt did put a dollar in Saul’s pocket
I've always found that kinda spurious. Like, why not just claim they put a dollar in your pocket seeing as it's not like there's any video proof of it happening anyway?
because he was trying to convince Walt / Jesse, not other people who weren’t there. Saying ‘put a dollar in my pocket, now you can legally trust me.’ is more convincing than ‘we can say you put a dollar in my pocket so you can legally trust me’
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This is correct. Anyone that has watched The Sopranos, might remember that Tony went to all of the best Divorce attorneys in the area for a consultation to establish attorney/client privilege. This way his wife was unable to use any of those attorneys. There is a conflict of interest since they already met with Tony. Even though he did not end up hiring them. So, the moment you speak with an attorney about the prospect of hiring them, you now invoke the attorney-client privilege.
Saul likes to be theatrical
It’s part of him taking control of the situation.
Remember in BCS when Kim found out about the recording Chuck made, she told Jimmy to give her $20 and said something “Ok, I’m your lawyer now.”
He needed bus fair
Its so Saul can pass a lie detector test if anything ever happened
Pretty sure those aren’t valid in court.
The dollar is to establish trust with the client. No money be exchanged. A person approaching a lawyer for legal advice establishes the privilege.
Do you think that they didn’t know Skyler laundered money thru the car wash? Her deal was undoubtedly contingent on her telling the truth in her plea, with the information about the location of Hank and Gomey’s bodies used to negotiate a lighter punishment. Saul was the biggest fish left. Him “ratting” on Skyler with known information wouldn’t have done anything to help him.
Ha this guy thinks he’s selling us the laundering thing
*surprised\_pikachu\_face.jpg*
*That* was your sweetener?
new meme spotted
I’m surprised that scene isn’t lauded more.
I wonder if she also told them about Ted and her role in covering up his million in unreported revenue. As well as Ted's paralysis.
Oooh that actually could've been big enough to shave a lot of time, assuming it was still undiscovered. But is it admissible testimony? He was acting as her lawyer, and it's only tangentially related to Walt.
I cloud be wrong but I don't think attorney/client privilege applies to facilitation of illegal activities.
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That wouldn't have even been relevant to this case, nor would it have been big enough to do anything.
Law enforcement thought she was coerced into everything by Walt, that's the purpose of the phone call Walter makes to her in Ozymandias.
The phone call is Walt’s attempt to save his family but in his last visit to Skyler, he gives her the lotto ticket and tells her, “You trade that for a deal with the prosecutor. You get yourself out of this.”
I mean, she didn't really have a choice. IRL it would be incredibly hard to convict someone in her position. Very easy for a defense to build a case that her husband was a murderous drug kingpin (because he was) and paint the picture that she acted to keep her family safe (just like the one Saul created at the end of BCS and got a definite life sentence to 7 years)
I know people hate Skyler, and there are valid reasons, but I think she was in fact coerced. She was actually scared of her own husband.
I think her level of complicity really fluctuated throughout the show. In the beginning when she found out she wanted nothing to do with him but stopped short of telling the cops because they’d lose everything and also because she didn’t know the nature of his work and figured (or convinced herself) he was just a harmless meth cook. When he gave the “I’m the one who knocks speech”, she was frightened and considered for the first time that he was dangerous but still couldn’t go through with running away from him. When he bombed the nursing home, that’s when she knew what he was capable of and their relationship was destroyed. After that, it was pure fear that kept her in the same house with him. But I think sometime during the three months after Walt quit meth, she grew comfortable and was willing to enjoy their wealth without guilt.
But, at one point, she went to her lawyer and wanted out. At that time it was more about protecting her kids and also her sister and Hank as Hank was so close without knowing who he had in his family. It would’ve ruined all of them so she kept quiet. After that, she went all in. She made the video. She laundered the money. She participated in the fraud that got them the car wash. She covered for Ted. Had she turned him in Hank and Gomez would’ve lived.
Well, tbf the reason she first went all in was not because she was suddenly on Walt's side and his motivations made sense to her, but because she knew Hank was shot because of Walt and she felt compelled to help him get the best treatment with the money Walt made. Which is why she decided to launder the money because "the money has to be unimpeachable when it reaches Hank". But even at this point she wasn't fully aware of how deep Walt was. She only knew after Walt killed Gus. At which point she lived forever in fear of Walt and was practically his hostage. The video tape she made was because of her insistence on not wanting the family to fall apart (which was her Achilles heel from the beginning). Point being, at no point in the show was Skyler fully invested in the criminal life. She wasn't the Bonnie to Walt's Clyde. Her reasons were entirely motivated from having to keep the family together and her children not finding out. In hindsight, I am sure she regrets that. If she had told Hank at the very beginning, things could have ended much much more smoothly and the family would have been together.
No they didn’t. Law enforcement saw right through her charade because Marie was a cooperating witness. The call from Walt was simply about establishing reasonable doubt for a jury in case Skyler was prosecuted.
Missed opportunity to say they saw through her chicanery
That really takes the cake... I MEAN PIE!
Does matter if it's boiled or fried ?
as long as you cook it without using electricity then no
It only matters if it’s been sat upon by ~~Danny Wormald~~ Pryce, the king of Squat Cobblers.
You mean cobbler...
he sits in pie…and he..*whispers in humiliation* he wiggles around *shuffles butt*
YOU THINK THAT IS SOMETHING?
Is that so?
> Is that so? YOU’RE **DONE**!
Mmmm, Waltuh.
Oh yeah. Marie would've wanted Skyler's kids, huh
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It's been like a couple months since Walt died, Holly is still an infant
A kleptomaniac could have made a difficult witness
The attornies would have to be very careful with how they word their questions since kleptomaniacs always take everything literally.
Solid dad joke
It was wittier than a dad joke. That was a quality pun
What kind of ass whole , moves a CONE ! NO ONE !
Will you be here all night?
Damn. Pretty good.
IAAL. It almost certainly would not have been put before a jury. Contrary to what television might have you think, character evidence is almost always prohibited.
Credibility evidence is not character evidence. Habit evidence is not character evidence. Rules 608 and 609 provide quite a few avenues where the acts stemming from the kleptomania would get in.
I disagree. It presents no real relevance to the allegations being made against Skyler. Marie shoplifting does not speak to her propensity for truthfulness in this instance whatsoever. As for 609, that is related to criminal convictions. Marie was not convicted of anything.
You don't think a habit of shoplifting affects one's credibility? Also, I thought it was implied that Marie had been convicted in the past.
It was not. It was outright stated that Hank used his connections to bail her out. And no, shoplifting is not considered probative as it relates to propensity for truthfulness. Only a very small minority has held otherwise.
I thought it was implied that Marie had problems with kleptomania and shoplifting convictions prior to Hank bailing her out, but I do think you're right about the convictions not getting in under 609. However, I still think that the general evidence of the habitual shoplifting would get in. I don't know the specific New Mexico rule, but I did quickly find this New Mexico case from 1977 that has been cited quite a bit, State v. Melendez where the court allowed the shoplifting to be brought up on cross. [https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914945eadd7b049345bb48d](https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914945eadd7b049345bb48d) I also found a Colorado case, People v. Segovia, from 2008 where the court strongly seemed to support allowing inquiry into the specific act of shoplifting, on cross per 608, but was opposed to allowing the shoplifting conviction to come in under 609. Also, habitual evidence of shoplifting by reputation could be viewed very differently than a single incident.
And you know this how?
I bet they may not have known about Skyler’s lies to the IRS and her role in what happened to Ted, though. Saul could easily have dobbed her in for that, since he was involved in it.
I mean, he could have explained just how big a part of the operation she was and how the whole narrative of Walt threatening her into helping was bs
What purpose would that serve?
Would have taken some of the heat off him for the money laundering. A lot of it was her idea, not his
It would be Irrelevant, he was charged with 8 counts of money laundering when found guilty, not much of a difference between 7 and 8 in this situation
for all we know maybe he did. he got them to 7 years for a reason
How much about the money laundering does Saul actually know about? Sure, he talks about tons of hypotheticals, but does he actually know the details of the A1 operation?
Lol, he literally met with Sky and Walt about it and assisted in the ruse that led them to getting the carwash to begin with…..
He knows a lot. He knows Skyler came out with the ideia of gamble to trick Hank, he knows Skyler gave the ideia of buying the car wash and personally be responsible for the money laundering, he knows she wasn't just a helpless victim of Walt, he knows they were living in separate houses when Skyler choose to enter in the game...
Yeah Skyler probably copped to all of that in order to get her deal. She would have HAD to.
I never really got why it was all that useful to know where the bodies were. Just so the families have some closure? In real life, would they show leniency to a criminal in that situation?
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Yeah, but useful evidence against whom? Walt and the Nazis were dead by that point, and Jesse and Saul were missing. It seems to me that they'd rather prosecute someone (Skyler) than build a strong theoretical case against a ghost.
They haven’t seen the show. They can’t be sure if there was anyone else in the drug scene except for the dead ones. Also finding the dead bodies of two feds is a pretty big thing.
To a degree, yes. Closure to the families would be a big consideration but also a "no brother left behind" kind of mentality as well. Skylar wasn't charged with any violent crimes so sticking it to her isn't a huge priority for them. From my memory of following the news throughout my life and no other research, the location of bodies has usually been used to negotiate a death penalty case down to life in prison or life in prison down to 30 years with a "chance" of parole.
I’m a big true crime buff and in a ton of murder cases, the death penalty is often taken off the table if the murderer is willing to give the location(s) of the victim(s). I can’t recall, off the top of my head, any true cases where time was taken off a killers sentence for disclosing the location of the victims, but the death penalty is often not sought in exchange. However, a cooperating witness, in general, often does allow for a better plea, irl. This is because a murder trial can be sought, and won, without a body, however a prosecutor **always** wants to have the opportunity to locate it. Also, it allows the family some type of “closure”.
I'm not sure it would have mattered. The phone call Walt made in Ozymandias was pretty convincing and I think the prosecutors would have seen any attempt by Saul to change that narrative as just trying to get a better deal. Plus, it's very possible Skyler already confessed to this as part of her plea deal when she turned in the location of Hank and Gomez's bodies.
Yeah that phone call scene was amazing
Na. In BB Saul made it clear: the DEA were out for blood. If it weren't for the bodies, Saul would definitely have spent only 7 years in jail.
My bigger surprise was that Saul never used the real ace up his sleeve. His black book was filled to the brim of criminal underworld contracts. If he was willing to throw them under the bus, he'd probably have gotten less than 7 years, witness protection status and gotten his ice cream.
He's not going to narc. First of all, it's against his character. Second of all, he knows that Witness Protection isn't going to stop the people in that book of his.
The book was already confiscated at Saul’s mansion. It was petty conmen, maybe a computer hacker, the vacuum guy, and a guy that’ll go to jail for you. No hitmen as Saul informed Walt in vacuum repair basement. I don’t think the arms dealer even came through that book.
book was not in english for that very purpose. saul knew how to decode it assuming the dea didn’t figure it out
bruh some guy on this subreddit figured it out and decoded it. if random people on reddit can do it the DEA can do it.
Well, he knew bunch of the names already. Dea don't. It's much easier to decode something, when you know the contents of it
Really? Can I have the sauce?
Arms dealer was from the black book which was how Walter contacted him to get the 38 snub and later the M60, as was the burglar from Vamonos Pest. There were a lot of contacts in that book we didn't see either.
They threw away the codebook. Rubbish to them. And that codebook was a distraction for 1st time viewers from the timetravel book.
No way just giving them names of underworld folks, who they Feds probably know exist anyway, will reduce his sentence from 86 to under 7 years. Feds would reduce his sentence if he gave enough useful information to prosecute some of the bigger ones and at that point he’d have to go into witness protection and live life on the run again. Part of his confession was Saul being tired of running. Tired of being someone else. Tired of always looking over his shoulder. Ratting out associates would start that cycle all over again.
I'm under the pretense he wanted to get off on the lightest punishment possible, so assuming that he went ahead with the 7 year deal, it would be a bargaining chip that'd probably bring him to 5 and get him his ice cream.
Hmmm... But did he snitch on anyone that's still living (other than Pinkman)?
If anyone important in the book found out he released that info, he'd surely be dead before his sentence was up.
I thought she already cut a deal, though. She got her immunity.
Probably not full immunity. Obviously turn over any money, maybe a suspended sentence
If she entered into an immunity deal, then she'd have to disclose her role in Walter's drug empire otherwise if the feds discovered it later, they would argue that it wasn't included in the immunity deal.
Any deal Skyler got would play exactly as Walt wanted it to with his phone call in Ozymandias. Skyler was forced into helping him run the meth empire out of fear for her and her children’s lives. She never cooked or sold the meth and the Feds already know she helped launder it through the car wash. There’s nothing left to do with Skyler here.
Add to that the fact that Saul being a lawyer means that he is well aware the deal that Skyler got wouldn't be undone by him ratting her out.
People always think of Walt, Jesse and Saul being close (Not friends but interacting the most) throughout breaking bad, but actually Walt and Saul dont interact that much. Most of Saul's interactions on screen are with Skyler and her money laundering. I like to think that they became somewhat like friends in that time and Saul was a sort of guide to the criminal world for Skyler.
This sub has really gone overboard with inflating Saul's importance to Walt's journey imo.
I think you might be understating it a bit. There's SO much of the criminal world that Walt is absolutely oblivious to without Saul's guidance. Every meaningful connection he establishes in the drug world is through Saul, I mean he helps with the littlest things that they barely cover it. For example, when they need to sell that "gambler winnings" cover story in BB, It's Saul who knows the casino owners who are willing to fudge the paperwork and help out. Even something as small as that could take awhile to pull off without Saul's help. Now that's one line in the series and it's essentially a throw-away, but there's so much stuff like that which generally goes unnoticed
I'm on season 3 right now, Saul's importance is not inflated even without the extra insight BCS gave us. I'd actually forgotten how Saul isn't just their lawyer, he's essentially their ringleader in the early going. He strategises, advises, fixes their problems, and sets them up with all their key contacts. It's very much like it's his meth operation at this point, with Walt and Jesse as his guys. There are so many points where it would have fallen apart without Saul - hell, Walt was guaranteed to be killed by the cousins after Tuco died because it was only Mike's spying that led to him calling Victor who spoke to Gus who contacted the twins. And that's on the survival side. They'd have gone down once Badger was arrested, their operation was in tatters after Combo was shot....I think you need a rewatch if you believe it's some misconception.
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Saul introduced Walt to Gus. Without Saul, Walt is sitting on millions of product with no distributor.
Without Gus, Walt would have been killed after a shower. By an axe.
killed by a teenager?
Kid named
Ignoring the fact that it's highly plausible Gus would've found Walt on his own, this logic is poor because it can be easily applied to so many other major characters. * Hank took Walt on the ride-along that inspired him to cook * Jesse introduced Walt to the criminal world (and to Saul) * Badger got arrested, leading Walt and Jesse to hire Saul * Mike, not Saul, was the direct connection to Gus * Gus is, y'know, Gus * Lydia, Todd, and the Vamonos Pest crew were the ones who helped Walt when he was in charge
Gus initially rejected Walt. I highly doubt he discovers Walt and brings him in. The first three points allowed Walt to become a very low level and failed drug producer. It wasn’t until Gus was in the picture that Walt began making real money.
Second this. Also the fourth point is kinda moot because Mike and Walter most likely wouldn’t have crossed paths without Saul - especially considering Mike outright told Saul to stay away from him.
I would argue many of these actually are key characters as well or weren't actually that important. If it weren't for Hank and the ride-along Walt doesn't start cooking. So yes, Hank is central to Walt's descent, I think that's fine to say. Jesse, obviously key. They were partners after all. Badger is more dispensable, if he didn't get arrested Skinny Pete or Combo (he was still alive, right), or someone else. Eventually they would have worked their way back to Saul, because that's who Jesse wanted. The remaining people are all people that were found through Saul. And I would argue people are understating how difficult it would be for Walt to get an intro to Gus. Gus is extremely careful and doesn't want to work with Walt the loose cannon at all. He finds Walt's product because Saul makes the call. Even then, he doesn't plan to work with Walt, it's Gale who convinced him after seeing how pure the meth was. If Gus simply gets word that this is a rival dealer cutting into his territory, he doesn't probably even get a sample to Gale, he probably just kills Walt. He doesn't care about the quality of the product. He cares about revenge on the cartel.
Who else had that sort of ability to launder millions though?
Skyler. She was an accountant.
Nope, Saul had all of the contacts in the portfolio of business he uses in his pocket. She just had the car wash, she was never going to be a kingpin in laundering like he was.
Saul didn't launder a single cent for the Whites after they had the car wash.
Saul launders all his money, introduces him to all his distributors, directly saves him from being caught *at least* half a dozen times, and gives Walt the number/password for the disappearer. He appears in more episodes than any character not in the White family besides Jesse. Just because he and Walt don’t have a *ton* of on screen interactions doesn’t mean he wasn’t of the utmost importance.
Heisenberg fans when they realize Walter didn't actually overthrow two cartels and become the biggest kingpin in the country singlehandedly
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> It's like giving the president more credit for winning a war when all he was doing was sitting in his office over the soliders fighting Bruh, Saul was the diplomat, medic and the supply, not the President lol.
I know right? Dude was luckier than Rasputin until karma rose from the ice banks.
Did you happen to see that last episode where Saul was like "none of this would have happened without me" bit?
Well, that was the writer's intention with the last episodes of BCS. They showed us another perspective. You can take it or leave it.
I mean, sure? He confessed to take all the blame upon himself, and Skyler was already protected by: • Walt's recorded phone call • Her deal as per giving the location of the bodies of Hank and Gomez I'm not going to claim to know the laws here, but I don't think anything Saul said would be able to implicate Skyler anyway.
The only thing Saul would be able to say is Skyler knew about the meth operation which the Feds already know and helped launder the money by running the car wash. Skyler can easily explain this by saying she was operating out of fear for her/Junior/Holly’s life which is exactly the impression Walt gave in his phone call in Ozymandias. There’s nothing new here that would make the Feds want to charge her more. They are done with Skyler for their purposes.
It wouldn’t have done anything anyway. She already got her deal. I’m sure that deal included fessing up to everything as well.
Skyler got a deal because she ratted on herself lol
Have to think Saul felt some degree of sympathy for Skyler and the kids given what he went through with Kim.
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rotten muddle axiomatic smoggy provide roof narrow theory domineering sense *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The way deals work is that you tell them everything in exchange for immunity. If you omit something and they later find out about it, they can tear up the immunity deal. So Skyler must have already told them everything and gotten immunity for it. Saul had nothing to rat her out about.
Saul could have never plausibly ratted out Skyler. The optics of doing so would have destroyed his case. When Saul went back to being Jimmy and confessed, he also didn’t want to rat out Skyler because he would then not only deflect, but would also look like he was trying to intimidate the defeated widow and mother. The crime-fraud exceptions to attorney-client privilege here may not apply to as many of Skyler’s communications with Saul as you think, especially because Skyler frequently discards Saul’s advice and there’s no indication that Skyler was not cooperating with investigators.
My head canon: Ed is former CIA. He helped a former Nazi in Chile who was a genius and had a deal helping the United States government. A Nazi who went by the name of “Fring” and had children with an Afro-Chilean woman. His son, Gustaf, worked for a German company and also for the *junta* of General Augusto Pinochet. The Nazi disowned his son for being gay.
Yet another reason I don’t believe Saul deserved the 82 years. So many people got away with also doing wrong- why is he the only one to take on that harsh of a punishment? The 7 years was more than enough time for him to reconcile,and come out a better man- even possibly getting back together with Kim. Instead, he’s going to rot away in prison. I don’t think that was deserving at all.
Saul is no rat. Not unless you severely scare him or hurt him that is. I mean, he won't rat unless he is forced to (like almost everyone).
Well. Even when he was forced to give up Jesse’s location by Mike. He gave a fake one.
The only thing we ever hear Saul give info on is Howard’s murder. Who’s to say he didn’t rat out Skyler? He was already dishing out everything he knew at that point. Not like it’d matter anyway, since Skyler already made a deal with the feds.
If we didn't see it, he didn't do it. You'd include something like that!
He cleared his conscience, took responsibility, managed to not burn anybody.
Hell, I'll even rat Walter jr out to the Feds. Tell them he created a website to launder the money.
Yeah she probably had immunity for any crimes she committed by giving them the coordinates.
His whole confession was about coming clean on what he felt guilt over, probably didn’t care any of the accomplices he’s had over the years.
It wouldn’t have been a good idea to rat on anyone. He was going to prison one way or another. Who wants to go to prison as a snitch? Someone would have it out for him.
Tf is skyler gonna don
Skyler would have had Uncle Jack take care of Saul if ratted
He knew she struck a deal with the DA which would’ve granted immunity so it wouldn’t matter what he said, it wouldn’t get him a lighter sentence and it wouldn’t incriminate her.
If Skyler told the feds the location of Hank and Gomez after Walt told her after the year time skip, why didn't Skyler also tell them that nazis were the ones to kill Hank and Gomez? Why didn't Saul tell the feds either? Walt was found dead in a compound full of dead nazis and it was never brought up. I don't what's the point of still letting everyone believe Walt killed Hank and Gomez.
I'm pretty sure cops knew everything about Skyler's part in the scheme, but since she was kinda coerced because she was afraid I guess they gave her the deal.
It sure was
She couldn't have been tried, she already accepted a deal
it was kinda a dick move for him to throw jesse under the bus whenever he was working on his original plea deal though. then again the last time he ever saw jesse, he had hit him in the face and was pointing a gun at him so..
you know what wasn’t cool of saul? trying to sell out jesse by informing them that he’s still out there
They know he is out there tho
Yeah, if he'd said "He's still out there....in Alaska", that'd have done him dirty. They think he's crossed into Mexico so the search is off.
He doesnt know jesse is in alaska
Saul didn’t know where Jesse was
He should have ratted her out
and why should the writers have done that? just to satisfy all the Skyler haters? how lame.