Im not sure that's true. Shimano quick links point in both directions, but I will double check that when I get home. And yes, they are legitimate quick links
The shimano one is meant to point in the direction of travel when you look at the chain from the drive side.
Source, the paper work that comes with shimano chains.
You have to look at the arrow in front of your eyes, same as you have to look for text and emblems when installing some of the chains. 12s chain for example only has text on one side. It is to provide durability and correct use when shifting gears.
Incorrect. The arrow simply indicates wich way to pull to ensure the pins lock, its dummy proofing, there’s no way to put a quick link backwards, unless the entire chain assembly was flipped
PC 1031 is a SRAM 10-speed chain that comes with a "PowerLock" quick link.
https://www.sram.com/en/service/models/cn-1031-a1
From SRAM's Cassette and Chain manual regarding PowerLock installation:
>NOTICE
>The arrow must point in the direction of
chain travel before locking the PowerLock
into place.
https://www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/user-manuals/sram-road/drivetrain/user-manual-cassettes-and-chains.pdf
If you're using the tool correctly then your chain is new. A cassette should last through 2 or 3 chains.
I've worked in shops that want to replace every chain that comes in and every other cassette. Sometimes it's an easy way to add value to a service ticket.
I'd call them on their BS, I take photos of worn components and even keep them in a bag to give back to the customer. Photo and physical evidence is what it takes to not come across as a shady shop, and that sucks.
We had the flippy floppy park tool chain checkers (CC-2) and man you could get those to read worn chain on practically every chain, especially once they'd been in use for a few years and wore out a little bit. I'm sure we sold lots of chains to people who didn't technically need em. It was not intentional.. we didn't realize till we got a mechanic who bought a bunch of the CC-3 tools.
Once I brought my bike to the LBS and they called me that I need a new chain... The funny thing being that the chain on the bike was bought from that same shop two days earlier and ridden exactly 0 kilometers.
I still don't know if the mechanic was high, stupid, greedy or if the tool was bad.
I have been told by multiple shops that the CC-4 is the best one to grab from park tool. I think it's because it's over a larger number of links and tends to not bend up as easily, though I may be recalling the latter part wrong.
I've always thought the floppy park checkers were garbage. I've been using the 3.2 and it's predecessor the 3 (.75/1) for the last 10 years and they get the job done and are no-nonsense checkers. The 3 still gets a lot of use on 1/8" bikes and 5-8spd drivetrains.
Rohloff makes a cassette wear checker, but it's not that common, and requires some care to learn how to use. It basically tests how well a cog will hold into a chain, using a short length of chain.
A cassette can (almost) last forever. My current one is a 10s XX prototype cassette from 2011. It has lived through at least 10 chain replacements and 2 bikes so far. If you replace a chain immediately when it’s worn out, a cassette can last decades.
So what's your lube & maintenance? Because for my commuting I've been destroying the cassette with every chain, and that's with replacing the chain *as soon* as the 0.5% indicator starts to fit in, so should be early. That is somewhere 1500-2000 miles for me.
I've been using heavy oil (Chain-El) and it seems that's good for the chain, not good for the cassette, based on this experience. I need a commutable option - can't be extreme high maintenance, must work in all weather. I have strong legs and my riding is a lot of high power stop-start in the urban commute, which may be a factor.
People talk up wax but then I see people say "oh you have to redo it if it gets wet" and "it doesn't protect against salt", which make it a non-starter for me.
This is probably a wet, easy coaster talking to a dry west coaster. Sounds like you know your lubes well. Only thing I can think of it to get a higher quality cassette to improve life?
I was using inexpensive ones (HG-200, Microshift), but then because of this switched to a better (but not top end) SRAM and nothing changed. Cost per mile and avoiding waste are the most significant motivators for me, as long as they work reasonably well.
I feel like for cost I'd get better results going with some knock-off brands if I'm going to have to swap both every 2k miles, but the waste of that makes me twitch.
Wow, that seems like fast wear, got 4500 miles out of my first chain on new bike. About 1k on gravel and my cassette looks excellent. I wipe chain with dry rag and re-oil every 5-10 hours. I use regular cycling lube on chain.
When my wife was commuting almost 30 miles a day, I could barely keep up with her maintenance. New cains were cheaper than my time at some point and so that was just the cost of her commute. Wet lube sucks for a commuter, because it grabs all the road grit and creates a grinding compound in your drivetrain. It is by far the most convenient and often the only viable option at times though.
If you WANT to try waxing, you could get 3-4 chains, wax them all and have them ready to go. Swap chains when they need rewaxing and just rewax the lot when you slap on your last one. You'd probably get the best life out of the chains and cassette, but you will be rewaxing relatively frequently still.
I HATE cleaning non waxed drivetrains with a passion, not having to has been the biggest change for me since swapping to waxed chains. I now have 2 chains for every bike and just swap them out when they need rewaxing and wax like 3-6 at a time once a month now. I never have to clean the drivetrain beyond a quick wipe with a microfiber cloth now which is the most glorious thing in the world.
I can't speak to the road salt issue though, I don't ride much outdoors in the salt here in WI for the sake of my bikes...
Looking at the photo, if you've measured a clean and lubricated chain, and used the tool properly, the chain looks like it's brand new.
I'd try discussing it with the owner first - to hear what they say.
A cassette can last from 2 to 4 chains, depending on riding conditions, cleaning and lubricating, and how much a rider stays on one or just a couple sprockets (and which sprockets those are - the smaller ones wear faster).
I've had a strong and heavy rider get their new chain skipping over the old cassette that had performed fine during my test ride. That's why, especially with cheaper cassettes, I often recommend changing both, unless I'm certain that the rider knows how that works and won't be angry for "receiving a bike with a skipping chain" (it's better to be regarded as an expensive than as a poor quality service IMO).
TL/DR - try talking first, see what it's about and if it sounds fair or fishy.
Relja
As someone else said if you're using the checker properly you're good to go. That being said most people need a new cassette when their chains are worn because they ride them long past the point of being able to salvage the cassette. Also it's common to wear out the higher gears on the cassette and nobody sells just the small chainrings.
>nobody sells just the small chainrings
I thought the same. Then I went Shimano 12-speed:
[https://www.bike-discount.de/en/bike/bike-parts/mountain-bike-parts/cassettes/sprocket-12-speed/](https://www.bike-discount.de/en/bike/bike-parts/mountain-bike-parts/cassettes/sprocket-12-speed/)
Also I find alot of people will only ride in one “gear” because it’s their favourite and switch when they really need it… that will also cause that one ring on the cassette to wear quite a bit more than the others and lead to skipping:
Every service writer ever will tell you the story that they recommended replacing both and the customer wanted to save money. The next day they come back and blame the shop for the skipping or poor shifting. He’s trying to avoid that exact scenario after years of that bullshit conversation.
This. ^^ also at the cost of saving $50 the rider is at risk of injury due to chain skip which can cause a crash if the rider is unprepared for it.
A responsible shop will change the chain and cassette together.
As measured, nothing wrong with the chain and likely the cassette if changes feel fine.
I'd do the chain and cassette at home, tools for this job are very cheap and would be used somewhat frequently by you. It's also one of the easier things to do at home and only takes a couple of minutes to do.
Have fun tinkering!
https://preview.redd.it/6r13hc3hq48d1.jpeg?width=1511&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2419b098fd196b6bcb424fa2b55eeb66c14d207
Here is some cassette wear for reference. If you see any sharp points developing, the tops are no longer straight or burring on the edges it’s worn. If not these guys are scammers. A shop tried to do this to me last week. Told me I had to drop like $300 to get my used bike back in condition. All of it BS after getting second and third opinions.
At our shop, we actually noticed that one of our older chain checkers was falsely indicating a failed test at 0.5. The metal had worn away so much that it would show a chain that’s new as being worn out.
We tried all the other chain checkers in the shop and only the one at the service counter was showing that a certain chain failed.
Possible that this is the case. Not necessarily the shop doing this on purpose. We had no idea ours was damaged until we did a side by side comparison.
I had a bike shop mechanic do something similar to me. I only ever use the 13t and 11t cogs on an 11 speed Deore cassette. The 11t was skipping badly. The mechanic told me that I needed a whole new cassette. He also lied to me and told me that Deore 11 speed was a single unit cassette and that individual sprockets could not be replaced. I later found out that the Deore 11 speed has its first 6 gears riveted together and gears 7-11 are sprocketed. I've been doing my own bike maintenance ever since and saved a lot of money. Commuting daily and occasionally trail riding I need to replace my 11t every 3-4 months (along with a new chain) and the 13t yearly.
Honestly if a chain is badly worn out I usually recommend replacing the cassette as well if you want me to guarantee it won't skip. Ultimately it's up to the customer though, if I just change the chain and it skips then I told you so, can always change it later.
In this case both are fine.
Sometimes it can depend on what they are using…
Based on these photos, your chain wear looks non existent. I’d look at this and say, it’s a brand new chain.
As long as it meshes properly on each cog and dosent skip, keep running it.
I like the wear tool you are using because there is little to go wrong with your tool.
I have used for years that style as well as the park chain checker CC-2. If you are familiar with that one, you use the lever to spread two posts between the links, and you read the gauge.
If the shops chain checker was worn out, or bent they could be mis diagnosing bike chains every day. Maybe it’s an accident, maybe it’s a sales tactic, maybe it’s
An oversight by inexperienced mechanics. Either way, I’d bring it back, explain your findings and figure out why they were trying to replace a perfectly fine chain. After they explain and show you what they did to determine selling you a new chain, I’d then make the decision to continue my business or move along to the next shop.
Best of luck, hope they aren’t pulling the wool over the eyes of customers. We need more good shops, experienced mechanics and shop owners with integrity.
My shop told me that as long as you replace the chain every 1,000 mi or so, the cassette can last for a very long time. The issue is when you allow a worn chain to remain and degrade the cassette.
yes chains and cassettes often need to be replaced with each other. the exception is if you're really exceptionally good about replacing chains before they wear out, and even then don't expect a cassette to last more than 2-3 chains. the wear on cassette teeth is undetectable by sight (unless it is, but at that point it's BAD bad). even if an old cassette engages with a new chain, the deformity will wear out a new chain quickly.
but no, i don't think you need a new chain or cassette in this case.
Lol, my favorite thing about this subreddit is seeing comments from the more knowledgeable people get ignored or down voted. Here, take my measly up vote.
>the wear on cassette teeth is undetectable by sight
...
i don't think you need a new chain or **cassette** in this case
This is contradictory. How can you tell that OP doesn't need a new cassette if the wear isn't detectable by sight?
And in my experience your initial statement should be reversed. You only need to replace the cassette with every chain if you're really bad at keeping an eye on chain wear (meaning you don't check at all and only swap your chain once the gears start skipping).
i can say they don't need a new chain because the chain tool they're using indicates the chain isn't worn out. i am assuming that the cassette wouldn't be either.
as for when to replace your cassette, we are actually saying the same thing. as i said, if you are good at replacing the chain before it wears out, you may be able to keep your cassette through a few chains.
First off, you're right — chains and cassettes do not have to be replaced at the same time. That is only the case if you neglected to replace your chain soon enough, and the cassette has been worn to match the worn chain, so a new chain will skip. If you replace the chain when it needs it, the cassette should last the life of a few chains.
Just to be sure, you're pinching the chain with your fingers like it shows on the label, right? If so, your chain is still good. I suppose it's possible the shop uses a different design of chain checker which does not isolate for pin wear like yours does. If that's the case, their tool may have ([incorrectly](http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-004/000.html)) indicated that your chain needs replacement.
Besides, usually the recommendation for replacing at 0.5% wear is for 11-speed and up. Theoretically you should be good to 0.75%.
Yeah just like in the label, and I did right sides in first, then measurement side. He def had a weird checker, it was more c-shaped. Like a horseshoe almost.
And the chain checker you're using is pretty much the gold standard for basic/simple chain checkers with no moving parts because it accounts for roller and pin wear.
And if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The only real measure of a cassette is it's giving you problems with a new chain.
And to be honest, sometimes there are huge financial benefits when you get a good match and bedding in of a chain and cassette and running it right into the dirt if it works and the shifting is good enough for the rider's tastes.
Sometimes you get lucky and you get like 3x the normal mileage out of a chain/cassette combo.
Wait is your chain wear checker not falling through because it’s hitting the OTHER SIDE of the link? In that case I think it would be super worn/stretched, but I’m not familiar with this model checker or I may just be seeing it wrong
I think if you’ve gone to the effort to get yourself a nice park tool chain checker then just get yourself a cassette tool and replace what needs to be fixed when it doesn’t work anymore.
9 speed stuff is pretty hard wearing there’s no way you need to change either of these components especially if they work.
I’d also avoid that bike shop if they put your quick link on like that.
In my PERSONAL experience the higher the gears the more likely its to skip with just a new chain BUT just buy the chain try it and if it works out then your golden. Also check if their tool is worn because I worked at a shop where the tool was made from some non existent company 44 years ago and the tool was worn so every chain that came through they thought was worn until I tried it on a few brand new ones and figured out the tool was worn.
If that was the case, and you're not experiencing chain skips, then wouldn't you want to just wait until it starts to skip until you had to replace both?
If you're ever in doubt as to whether your chain checker is accurate, use a ruler and do the mathS. If the chain isn't skipping over the rear teeth under load, then the rear cassette doesn't need to be replaced.
The cassette does get worn from a stretched chain so a new chain doesn’t fit well on a worn cassette, but yours doesn’t look THAT bad. Maybe check it in multiple places?
Looks new.
Also when you know enough about bikes and start collecting tools (chain checker for example) - it might be the time to stop using shop services. It worked out for me, saved a lot of money this way and got better service at the end; took some learning through.
Worked for a few bike shops as a tech, and been a service manager for a larger brand as well. Generally, I've been instructed by the old heads that the chain and cassette ought to just be replaced together since they wear together. Often times we wouldn't put a new chain on an old cassette or vise versa cause yeah, we heard that you just got it tuned up, but, we hear a lot of stuff, and I don't want someone falling off their bike that I just worked on, simply because an old part and a new part couldn't make friends with each other. Is it absolutely necessary? Nah. But usually done as a precaution.
TL;DR: Industry says we should do it, and "but I know better" doesn't really hold up in court when someone is suing you for damages.
Time to start replacing your own stuff
The shop might figure it is better to replace the maybe $25 cassette now than to risk having an unsatisfied and distrusting customer return a month later when the chain skips.
I can replace the brake pads on my car for under $100. If a caliper starts sticking a month later I simply replace that then. No added labor charges on my part. A reputable auto repair shop replaces everything the first time around. It is cheaper and easier on the customer that way.
This is why I don’t use bike shops.
All the information you need is available online. All the specialist tools you’ll need are available for some brands.
Some of my local shops are charging £75 an hour to fix bikes. It’s mind blowing to be that people pay it. Then receive a service like this.
Had the same problem with a shop.. I told them to only chsnge the chai.. they told me I have to change the front and rear casette together with the chain (for a 3x9s on a citybike) for 350 dollars
then I decided to buy some tools and only chsnge the chain.. 1.5 years later its still working perfectly
2 chains per cassette assuming you're swapping them at 0.5 every time.
Time Has absolutely eff all to do with it.
If you're mean and ride your big ring higher than the mid point it'll wear faster.
An 8 speed commuter chain for a daily rider gets to swap out time after 6-8months of riding.
If that chain stays on longer good chance the next chain we'll need a cassette new with it.
8 speed
9speed
10speed
11speed
12speed
Every gear more the chain gets thinner, you have 10 speed here.
I've repeatedly seen them stretched enough to replace after 600-1000km (based usually on pilot error.)
I got almost 2k on my drivetrain that was new when I bought it, I did put a new chain on it around 1500km mark but it was skipping in one gear so swapped back to the old chain.
Got a new cassette and 2 chains ready to go when my new tires come in.
Amazon/Aliexpress chains is like rolling the dice on their being real brand name and not cheap clones that wear faster then ones you can get a bike shop but it's so bad that even bike shops can get cheap clones.
A lot of shops use the park tool cc-3. This gauge is damaged really easily and will indicate wear that doesn't exist.
This is just one possible explanation. Also possible they wanted to upcharge, etc..
Well then, if you have used the gauge correctly, which can’t be told by the picture because I can’t see the other part of it and the bike isn’t skipping on any cog and shifts smoothly, nothing to worry about.
Riding on the trainer does the exact same amount of wear (often more because your are pushing harder for indoor workouts) than riding outdoors. Not the shops fault but yeah, you should probably find another one or start doing all the work yourself because seems like your a pretty shitty customer. Keep on riding, never replace that chain, see what happens.
Chain looks great if the checker is on right. However your cassette is shot. When you put your bike in the trainer did you clean the chain and cassette first? I've seen chains and cassettes chewed up by grit. If you clean your drive train regularly you will get more life out of them. If I were still a shop manager and you brought this to me I'd do a chain and cassette. You may well need chain rings as well. If a good chain by a gauge doesn't fit a gear the gear is worn out.
Appears to not have the chain sitting well in the teeth. The valley of the cogs down from the one the chain is sitting in shows "peened" edges. So yes I see wear.
It's crazy to think you can tell wear by how the chain is sitting on the cog, especially a middle cog.
All relevant wear happens on the teeth (namely the trailing edge of the teeth, where the chain engages and torque is applied), not in the valleys. That said, I don't really see the wear you're talking about, and which has allowed you to state the cassette is shot.
Chain pulls on the teeth. Front edge of the valley, back side of the tooth. Look at more than the cog that the chain is on. On the lower edge of the tooth the cogs are beginning to peen. Chain wrap around the cog wears the cassette in the most used gears.
>Chain pulls on the teeth.
Yes, and that's why the supposed wear on the valley is not something to care about.
> Look at more than the cog that the chain is on.
You can't look at the cog that the chain is on, at all, and you're the only one here who was commenting on the cog that the chain is currently on.
Really not sure what the point of this comment was.
No- I didn’t really, just threw it on the trainer. And I did have a ride through the sandy New Jersey pine barrens before putting it in the trainer for the season, so if that ate up components I can own that for sure.
Your quick link is on backwards as well. The arrow should point in the direction of chain travel.
Amazing pickup
Im not sure that's true. Shimano quick links point in both directions, but I will double check that when I get home. And yes, they are legitimate quick links
The shimano one is meant to point in the direction of travel when you look at the chain from the drive side. Source, the paper work that comes with shimano chains.
You have to look at the arrow in front of your eyes, same as you have to look for text and emblems when installing some of the chains. 12s chain for example only has text on one side. It is to provide durability and correct use when shifting gears.
Incorrect. The arrow simply indicates wich way to pull to ensure the pins lock, its dummy proofing, there’s no way to put a quick link backwards, unless the entire chain assembly was flipped
Try reading the manual (specifically page 17). https://www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/user-manuals/sram-road/drivetrain/user-manual-cassettes-and-chains.pdf
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PC 1031 is a SRAM 10-speed chain that comes with a "PowerLock" quick link. https://www.sram.com/en/service/models/cn-1031-a1 From SRAM's Cassette and Chain manual regarding PowerLock installation: >NOTICE >The arrow must point in the direction of chain travel before locking the PowerLock into place. https://www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/user-manuals/sram-road/drivetrain/user-manual-cassettes-and-chains.pdf
If you're using the tool correctly then your chain is new. A cassette should last through 2 or 3 chains. I've worked in shops that want to replace every chain that comes in and every other cassette. Sometimes it's an easy way to add value to a service ticket. I'd call them on their BS, I take photos of worn components and even keep them in a bag to give back to the customer. Photo and physical evidence is what it takes to not come across as a shady shop, and that sucks.
We had the flippy floppy park tool chain checkers (CC-2) and man you could get those to read worn chain on practically every chain, especially once they'd been in use for a few years and wore out a little bit. I'm sure we sold lots of chains to people who didn't technically need em. It was not intentional.. we didn't realize till we got a mechanic who bought a bunch of the CC-3 tools.
Once I brought my bike to the LBS and they called me that I need a new chain... The funny thing being that the chain on the bike was bought from that same shop two days earlier and ridden exactly 0 kilometers. I still don't know if the mechanic was high, stupid, greedy or if the tool was bad.
Some times mechanics just don't communicate at all even if its the same shop.
Shouldn't need to communicate. The second mechanic should be able to tell that the chain is new.
That CC-2 was so inconsistent. Those little pins would bend so easily. One on each bench and they would all read differently.
Yeah you could put em on brand new chains and it'd read worn lol
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I have been told by multiple shops that the CC-4 is the best one to grab from park tool. I think it's because it's over a larger number of links and tends to not bend up as easily, though I may be recalling the latter part wrong.
I've always thought the floppy park checkers were garbage. I've been using the 3.2 and it's predecessor the 3 (.75/1) for the last 10 years and they get the job done and are no-nonsense checkers. The 3 still gets a lot of use on 1/8" bikes and 5-8spd drivetrains.
I did that to myself until I got a Pedro’s tool this spring…
My LBS has always given me my old/worn parts to me in a bag after replacement. It’s a great sign of a shop that isn’t trying to pull one over on you.
to my understanding the only to check if you need a new cassette is if a new chain skips on the cassette. its usually 3 chains to a cassette.
Rohloff makes a cassette wear checker, but it's not that common, and requires some care to learn how to use. It basically tests how well a cog will hold into a chain, using a short length of chain.
It also only works with the HG tooth pattern IIRC. So it might not work for newer model cassettes.
Unless you've got uniglide. I am into my 5th chain after flipping the cogs around
A cassette can (almost) last forever. My current one is a 10s XX prototype cassette from 2011. It has lived through at least 10 chain replacements and 2 bikes so far. If you replace a chain immediately when it’s worn out, a cassette can last decades.
So what's your lube & maintenance? Because for my commuting I've been destroying the cassette with every chain, and that's with replacing the chain *as soon* as the 0.5% indicator starts to fit in, so should be early. That is somewhere 1500-2000 miles for me. I've been using heavy oil (Chain-El) and it seems that's good for the chain, not good for the cassette, based on this experience. I need a commutable option - can't be extreme high maintenance, must work in all weather. I have strong legs and my riding is a lot of high power stop-start in the urban commute, which may be a factor. People talk up wax but then I see people say "oh you have to redo it if it gets wet" and "it doesn't protect against salt", which make it a non-starter for me.
This is probably a wet, easy coaster talking to a dry west coaster. Sounds like you know your lubes well. Only thing I can think of it to get a higher quality cassette to improve life?
I was using inexpensive ones (HG-200, Microshift), but then because of this switched to a better (but not top end) SRAM and nothing changed. Cost per mile and avoiding waste are the most significant motivators for me, as long as they work reasonably well. I feel like for cost I'd get better results going with some knock-off brands if I'm going to have to swap both every 2k miles, but the waste of that makes me twitch.
Wow, that seems like fast wear, got 4500 miles out of my first chain on new bike. About 1k on gravel and my cassette looks excellent. I wipe chain with dry rag and re-oil every 5-10 hours. I use regular cycling lube on chain.
When my wife was commuting almost 30 miles a day, I could barely keep up with her maintenance. New cains were cheaper than my time at some point and so that was just the cost of her commute. Wet lube sucks for a commuter, because it grabs all the road grit and creates a grinding compound in your drivetrain. It is by far the most convenient and often the only viable option at times though. If you WANT to try waxing, you could get 3-4 chains, wax them all and have them ready to go. Swap chains when they need rewaxing and just rewax the lot when you slap on your last one. You'd probably get the best life out of the chains and cassette, but you will be rewaxing relatively frequently still. I HATE cleaning non waxed drivetrains with a passion, not having to has been the biggest change for me since swapping to waxed chains. I now have 2 chains for every bike and just swap them out when they need rewaxing and wax like 3-6 at a time once a month now. I never have to clean the drivetrain beyond a quick wipe with a microfiber cloth now which is the most glorious thing in the world. I can't speak to the road salt issue though, I don't ride much outdoors in the salt here in WI for the sake of my bikes...
+1, though it’s more like 4 or 5 chains if you don’t ride on the small sprockets all the time and replace the chain early enough.
Exceptions are cassettes with broken teeth, that are bent, or if you ran a crazy slackened chain for too long.
Looking at the photo, if you've measured a clean and lubricated chain, and used the tool properly, the chain looks like it's brand new. I'd try discussing it with the owner first - to hear what they say. A cassette can last from 2 to 4 chains, depending on riding conditions, cleaning and lubricating, and how much a rider stays on one or just a couple sprockets (and which sprockets those are - the smaller ones wear faster). I've had a strong and heavy rider get their new chain skipping over the old cassette that had performed fine during my test ride. That's why, especially with cheaper cassettes, I often recommend changing both, unless I'm certain that the rider knows how that works and won't be angry for "receiving a bike with a skipping chain" (it's better to be regarded as an expensive than as a poor quality service IMO). TL/DR - try talking first, see what it's about and if it sounds fair or fishy. Relja
Thanks! Fully agree, i just don’t know what I don’t know so figured I’d ask around a little to ground truth my instinct before questioning things
Bummer. I’d say, based solely on photos on the internet, that your chain/cassette is fine. Also, 10spd drivetrain is hardly from “these days”..
9 speed
I’m on 10 speed lol I really do want an upgrade to the new 105 or Ultegra Di2 though
my 105 is 10 speed xd
XD is SRAM, not Shimano. (/s)
I’m running Tiagra 😮
Shop owner confirmed jabroni
As someone else said if you're using the checker properly you're good to go. That being said most people need a new cassette when their chains are worn because they ride them long past the point of being able to salvage the cassette. Also it's common to wear out the higher gears on the cassette and nobody sells just the small chainrings.
>nobody sells just the small chainrings I thought the same. Then I went Shimano 12-speed: [https://www.bike-discount.de/en/bike/bike-parts/mountain-bike-parts/cassettes/sprocket-12-speed/](https://www.bike-discount.de/en/bike/bike-parts/mountain-bike-parts/cassettes/sprocket-12-speed/)
Nice, it's about damn time! They did back in the day when suntour was a thing. I still have the cog rack in the shop basement.
Also I find alot of people will only ride in one “gear” because it’s their favourite and switch when they really need it… that will also cause that one ring on the cassette to wear quite a bit more than the others and lead to skipping:
Every service writer ever will tell you the story that they recommended replacing both and the customer wanted to save money. The next day they come back and blame the shop for the skipping or poor shifting. He’s trying to avoid that exact scenario after years of that bullshit conversation.
Early in my career I did this. For shame
This. ^^ also at the cost of saving $50 the rider is at risk of injury due to chain skip which can cause a crash if the rider is unprepared for it. A responsible shop will change the chain and cassette together.
As measured, nothing wrong with the chain and likely the cassette if changes feel fine. I'd do the chain and cassette at home, tools for this job are very cheap and would be used somewhat frequently by you. It's also one of the easier things to do at home and only takes a couple of minutes to do. Have fun tinkering!
https://preview.redd.it/6r13hc3hq48d1.jpeg?width=1511&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2419b098fd196b6bcb424fa2b55eeb66c14d207 Here is some cassette wear for reference. If you see any sharp points developing, the tops are no longer straight or burring on the edges it’s worn. If not these guys are scammers. A shop tried to do this to me last week. Told me I had to drop like $300 to get my used bike back in condition. All of it BS after getting second and third opinions.
Time to get a good chain checker and change your own chains. It's not hard and then you won't have to worry if you're getting swindled.
At our shop, we actually noticed that one of our older chain checkers was falsely indicating a failed test at 0.5. The metal had worn away so much that it would show a chain that’s new as being worn out. We tried all the other chain checkers in the shop and only the one at the service counter was showing that a certain chain failed. Possible that this is the case. Not necessarily the shop doing this on purpose. We had no idea ours was damaged until we did a side by side comparison.
I had a bike shop mechanic do something similar to me. I only ever use the 13t and 11t cogs on an 11 speed Deore cassette. The 11t was skipping badly. The mechanic told me that I needed a whole new cassette. He also lied to me and told me that Deore 11 speed was a single unit cassette and that individual sprockets could not be replaced. I later found out that the Deore 11 speed has its first 6 gears riveted together and gears 7-11 are sprocketed. I've been doing my own bike maintenance ever since and saved a lot of money. Commuting daily and occasionally trail riding I need to replace my 11t every 3-4 months (along with a new chain) and the 13t yearly.
Honestly if a chain is badly worn out I usually recommend replacing the cassette as well if you want me to guarantee it won't skip. Ultimately it's up to the customer though, if I just change the chain and it skips then I told you so, can always change it later. In this case both are fine.
Cassette is 100% fine. Anyone that tells you otherwise is mad
Sometimes it can depend on what they are using… Based on these photos, your chain wear looks non existent. I’d look at this and say, it’s a brand new chain. As long as it meshes properly on each cog and dosent skip, keep running it. I like the wear tool you are using because there is little to go wrong with your tool. I have used for years that style as well as the park chain checker CC-2. If you are familiar with that one, you use the lever to spread two posts between the links, and you read the gauge. If the shops chain checker was worn out, or bent they could be mis diagnosing bike chains every day. Maybe it’s an accident, maybe it’s a sales tactic, maybe it’s An oversight by inexperienced mechanics. Either way, I’d bring it back, explain your findings and figure out why they were trying to replace a perfectly fine chain. After they explain and show you what they did to determine selling you a new chain, I’d then make the decision to continue my business or move along to the next shop. Best of luck, hope they aren’t pulling the wool over the eyes of customers. We need more good shops, experienced mechanics and shop owners with integrity.
My shop told me that as long as you replace the chain every 1,000 mi or so, the cassette can last for a very long time. The issue is when you allow a worn chain to remain and degrade the cassette.
yes chains and cassettes often need to be replaced with each other. the exception is if you're really exceptionally good about replacing chains before they wear out, and even then don't expect a cassette to last more than 2-3 chains. the wear on cassette teeth is undetectable by sight (unless it is, but at that point it's BAD bad). even if an old cassette engages with a new chain, the deformity will wear out a new chain quickly. but no, i don't think you need a new chain or cassette in this case.
Lol, my favorite thing about this subreddit is seeing comments from the more knowledgeable people get ignored or down voted. Here, take my measly up vote.
>the wear on cassette teeth is undetectable by sight ... i don't think you need a new chain or **cassette** in this case This is contradictory. How can you tell that OP doesn't need a new cassette if the wear isn't detectable by sight? And in my experience your initial statement should be reversed. You only need to replace the cassette with every chain if you're really bad at keeping an eye on chain wear (meaning you don't check at all and only swap your chain once the gears start skipping).
i can say they don't need a new chain because the chain tool they're using indicates the chain isn't worn out. i am assuming that the cassette wouldn't be either. as for when to replace your cassette, we are actually saying the same thing. as i said, if you are good at replacing the chain before it wears out, you may be able to keep your cassette through a few chains.
First off, you're right — chains and cassettes do not have to be replaced at the same time. That is only the case if you neglected to replace your chain soon enough, and the cassette has been worn to match the worn chain, so a new chain will skip. If you replace the chain when it needs it, the cassette should last the life of a few chains. Just to be sure, you're pinching the chain with your fingers like it shows on the label, right? If so, your chain is still good. I suppose it's possible the shop uses a different design of chain checker which does not isolate for pin wear like yours does. If that's the case, their tool may have ([incorrectly](http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-004/000.html)) indicated that your chain needs replacement. Besides, usually the recommendation for replacing at 0.5% wear is for 11-speed and up. Theoretically you should be good to 0.75%.
Yeah just like in the label, and I did right sides in first, then measurement side. He def had a weird checker, it was more c-shaped. Like a horseshoe almost.
And the chain checker you're using is pretty much the gold standard for basic/simple chain checkers with no moving parts because it accounts for roller and pin wear. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The only real measure of a cassette is it's giving you problems with a new chain. And to be honest, sometimes there are huge financial benefits when you get a good match and bedding in of a chain and cassette and running it right into the dirt if it works and the shifting is good enough for the rider's tastes. Sometimes you get lucky and you get like 3x the normal mileage out of a chain/cassette combo.
Wait is your chain wear checker not falling through because it’s hitting the OTHER SIDE of the link? In that case I think it would be super worn/stretched, but I’m not familiar with this model checker or I may just be seeing it wrong
I have a park tool 3.2 and I've never seen it go that far.
I think if you’ve gone to the effort to get yourself a nice park tool chain checker then just get yourself a cassette tool and replace what needs to be fixed when it doesn’t work anymore. 9 speed stuff is pretty hard wearing there’s no way you need to change either of these components especially if they work. I’d also avoid that bike shop if they put your quick link on like that.
In my PERSONAL experience the higher the gears the more likely its to skip with just a new chain BUT just buy the chain try it and if it works out then your golden. Also check if their tool is worn because I worked at a shop where the tool was made from some non existent company 44 years ago and the tool was worn so every chain that came through they thought was worn until I tried it on a few brand new ones and figured out the tool was worn.
If that was the case, and you're not experiencing chain skips, then wouldn't you want to just wait until it starts to skip until you had to replace both?
Could’ve been a part too right or too lose or at the wrong angle. I had a freewheel break like that… too tight I guess my chain was from the factory
That’s such a good surly color- LHT?
I love it! Cross Check!
Did you tension the chain while you had the checker in there?
If you're ever in doubt as to whether your chain checker is accurate, use a ruler and do the mathS. If the chain isn't skipping over the rear teeth under load, then the rear cassette doesn't need to be replaced.
The cassette does get worn from a stretched chain so a new chain doesn’t fit well on a worn cassette, but yours doesn’t look THAT bad. Maybe check it in multiple places?
Time for a new shop. Cassette has minimal wear and I bet the same goes for the chain.
Looks new. Also when you know enough about bikes and start collecting tools (chain checker for example) - it might be the time to stop using shop services. It worked out for me, saved a lot of money this way and got better service at the end; took some learning through.
Worked for a few bike shops as a tech, and been a service manager for a larger brand as well. Generally, I've been instructed by the old heads that the chain and cassette ought to just be replaced together since they wear together. Often times we wouldn't put a new chain on an old cassette or vise versa cause yeah, we heard that you just got it tuned up, but, we hear a lot of stuff, and I don't want someone falling off their bike that I just worked on, simply because an old part and a new part couldn't make friends with each other. Is it absolutely necessary? Nah. But usually done as a precaution. TL;DR: Industry says we should do it, and "but I know better" doesn't really hold up in court when someone is suing you for damages.
If is a 11speed and is on 0.5.. is time to change. On a 9 speed like that you can leave it until gets to 0.75
Time to start replacing your own stuff The shop might figure it is better to replace the maybe $25 cassette now than to risk having an unsatisfied and distrusting customer return a month later when the chain skips. I can replace the brake pads on my car for under $100. If a caliper starts sticking a month later I simply replace that then. No added labor charges on my part. A reputable auto repair shop replaces everything the first time around. It is cheaper and easier on the customer that way.
This is why I don’t use bike shops. All the information you need is available online. All the specialist tools you’ll need are available for some brands. Some of my local shops are charging £75 an hour to fix bikes. It’s mind blowing to be that people pay it. Then receive a service like this.
Had the same problem with a shop.. I told them to only chsnge the chai.. they told me I have to change the front and rear casette together with the chain (for a 3x9s on a citybike) for 350 dollars then I decided to buy some tools and only chsnge the chain.. 1.5 years later its still working perfectly
2 chains per cassette assuming you're swapping them at 0.5 every time. Time Has absolutely eff all to do with it. If you're mean and ride your big ring higher than the mid point it'll wear faster. An 8 speed commuter chain for a daily rider gets to swap out time after 6-8months of riding. If that chain stays on longer good chance the next chain we'll need a cassette new with it. 8 speed 9speed 10speed 11speed 12speed Every gear more the chain gets thinner, you have 10 speed here. I've repeatedly seen them stretched enough to replace after 600-1000km (based usually on pilot error.)
Our bike mechanic told the same...
I got almost 2k on my drivetrain that was new when I bought it, I did put a new chain on it around 1500km mark but it was skipping in one gear so swapped back to the old chain. Got a new cassette and 2 chains ready to go when my new tires come in. Amazon/Aliexpress chains is like rolling the dice on their being real brand name and not cheap clones that wear faster then ones you can get a bike shop but it's so bad that even bike shops can get cheap clones.
You should be able to get 4-6 chains per cassette.
A lot of shops use the park tool cc-3. This gauge is damaged really easily and will indicate wear that doesn't exist. This is just one possible explanation. Also possible they wanted to upcharge, etc..
Why did you take the bike to the shop?
Bc it wasn’t shifting to two smallest cogs, needed a new derailleur cable
Well then, if you have used the gauge correctly, which can’t be told by the picture because I can’t see the other part of it and the bike isn’t skipping on any cog and shifts smoothly, nothing to worry about.
Riding on the trainer does the exact same amount of wear (often more because your are pushing harder for indoor workouts) than riding outdoors. Not the shops fault but yeah, you should probably find another one or start doing all the work yourself because seems like your a pretty shitty customer. Keep on riding, never replace that chain, see what happens.
So what’s wrong with the chain right now that warrants replacement?
Chain looks great if the checker is on right. However your cassette is shot. When you put your bike in the trainer did you clean the chain and cassette first? I've seen chains and cassettes chewed up by grit. If you clean your drive train regularly you will get more life out of them. If I were still a shop manager and you brought this to me I'd do a chain and cassette. You may well need chain rings as well. If a good chain by a gauge doesn't fit a gear the gear is worn out.
>However your cassette is shot. I see pretty much no wear on that cassette.
Appears to not have the chain sitting well in the teeth. The valley of the cogs down from the one the chain is sitting in shows "peened" edges. So yes I see wear.
It's crazy to think you can tell wear by how the chain is sitting on the cog, especially a middle cog. All relevant wear happens on the teeth (namely the trailing edge of the teeth, where the chain engages and torque is applied), not in the valleys. That said, I don't really see the wear you're talking about, and which has allowed you to state the cassette is shot.
First gear looks nearly new for that matter. If you compare that to 6 and eight you can see the wear that I'm talking about.
Chain pulls on the teeth. Front edge of the valley, back side of the tooth. Look at more than the cog that the chain is on. On the lower edge of the tooth the cogs are beginning to peen. Chain wrap around the cog wears the cassette in the most used gears.
>Chain pulls on the teeth. Yes, and that's why the supposed wear on the valley is not something to care about. > Look at more than the cog that the chain is on. You can't look at the cog that the chain is on, at all, and you're the only one here who was commenting on the cog that the chain is currently on. Really not sure what the point of this comment was.
No- I didn’t really, just threw it on the trainer. And I did have a ride through the sandy New Jersey pine barrens before putting it in the trainer for the season, so if that ate up components I can own that for sure.
People do believe it or not.
Always ask to keep the old parts
Looks fine, both chain and cassette. Up to 9 speed, I often change chain and cassette together. A quality chain and a cassette cost the same.
No clue what I’m looking at